#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea
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Art based on SJM’s Pinterest board before she deleted it in 2021, which means Elucien’s been endgame for years.
The author decides, and it’s been decided. How we can argue against it, I don’t know.
#my maas wishlist#elucien#sjm give us peace#pro elucien#elain x lucien#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#pro elain#elain archeron#elain acotar#pro lucien vanserra#lucien vanserra#pro lucien#lucien acotar#anti vassien#anti e/riel#anti elriel#Instagram
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I'm going to try to make this the last post where I address this but I'm starting to get frustrated with the narrative that Elucien's should just accept Az and hold in him high regard because "we're on the same side".
Yes, Elucien's and Gwynriel's both share a common goal of being Anti E/riels and we often create posts both sides like because of it. I think it's very clear to both groups that Az with Elain is a ship that exhibits major red flags.
But that's not the reason I ship Elucien, just because Az is bad for Elain so Lucien wins by default.
I actually like Elain and Lucien as individual characters. I think they'll be fantastic together but standing alone I still love them.
Just because I see that Az is setup to be healthier with Gwyn, that does not make up the sum total of his character. His interactions with Gwyn or Nesta are minimal compared to how he is with everyone else.
I think it's safe to say that a good number of Gwynriels support Elucien but don't necessarily like Elain. I joined a FB group that was Pro Gwynriel / Pro Elucien and ended up leaving for the vitriol that was spit Elain's way. It did not feel like a safe place to ship Elucien when I was constantly seeing others drag her.
And I think some in the fandom forget that Elucien's have witnessed this behavior for YEARS, even outside of E/riels. Some Gwynriels have thought nothing of the Elain slander or dislike they participated in and Elucien's have had to sit and just accept it.
Though this is a character SJM herself created and said shares her real life energy. Though this is a character SJM spoke of having a book long before Az was ever discussed as possibly getting his own, we were still forced to listen to her character be torn apart.
And now the Az getting a book chatter has increased tenfold and some Elucien's have started to speak out against Az's behavior.
SJM wrote it so that neither Elain or Lucien has ever said anything negative about Gwyn or Az.
But she did write Az as being problematic towards both Elain and Lucien.
If Elain and Lucien are someone's favorite ship and they genuinely have love for their characters, do Az stans TRULY believe we're supposed to show Az the same respect we do for Lucien?
When Az said Lucien wasn't good enough for Elain?
When Az said Elain couldn't handle the darkness of the Trove?
When Az didn't care whether Lucien murdered Graysen or when Az was fine being arrogant over defeating Lucien in the Blood Duel?
Please take the time to consider why Az's behavior towards Nesta or even Gwyn doesn't erase away Az's past behavior towards everyone else for some of us? Towards his own High Lady? The way he acts towards Helion? Please understand why not all Eluciens would care to see Az getting his own HEA with a female he JUST met and has shown no romantic inclination towards yet as he's fixated on Mor and Elain while Lucien continues to suffer with his unfulfilled bond and Az believes Lucien isn't good enough for her anyway.
I understand why Az stans are pumped for his book but please do not act like we should all be on the same side just because we are both Anti E/riels. Don't act like we're suddenly trouble makers because we're calling Az out for the wrongs we'd like to see righted and for what would be justice for Lucien's character, if Az did have to see him happy with his own mate before Az was granted the gift of his own.
Az could get his own book next and Elucien's will have to deal with it but stop acting like Elucien's who have been waiting for their story to be told since 2016 and whose favorites are constantly being belittled within the fandom (Lucien from E/riels and Elain from some Gwynriels) aren't well within their rights to be a little irritated by Az at this point.
This isn't even an Anti Azriel post because I realize that he will be redeemed and get his HEA. But let's not pretend there's not valid things he needs to atone for.
For us, it's not just about proving E/riels wrong but for Lucien's suffering to finally come to an end. For the Elain haters to finally reconsider.
After nearly a decade, you'd think there'd be a little more understanding for Elucien's and why they're not mooning over the possibility of an Az book being the next book.
#anti e/riel#lucien vanserra#elain archeron#pro elucien#pro elain archeron#pro lucien vanserra#elucien#Anti Azriel
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What do you think about Lucien and Feyre's relationship? Reading the books I thought they were good friends and Lucien helped her many times and even got whipped for it, he went to rescue her too when Rhysand "kidnapped" her and he seemed worried. When he realized the truth, he was very affected and helped the IC in return. I am surprised to see many Feyre stans hating Lucien when he actually helped her and the IC many times, comforted Feyre and has been there for her since book 1. Feyre also used him, read his mind, lied to him, mocked the BoE and is currently manipulating him to work for the IC. She's no saint either and that's fine. They are both complex characters and that's why I love them, what confuses me is all the hate people throw at Lucien, like the man made mistakes but all the characters in ACOTAR have fucked up at some point. Do you think that maybe it has more to do with the fact that he is/was Tamlin's friend (and the fact that people still blame Tamlin and Lucien instead of Ianthe for telling Hybern about Nesta and Elain)?
It makes me sad because there was so much potential for them in acotar. Lucien was probably the first real friend that Feyre ever had. She certainly was never friends with Nesta or Elain, and when did she get an opportunity to interact with anyone else? Feyre and Lucien butted heads at first but eventually came to an understanding. It got to the point where Amarantha knew that she could use Lucien against Feyre! That was how close they had gotten. And Feyre helped him, leading to one of the only (maybe the only?) cameos from LoA we've had.
It's frustrating because Feyre has gotten her HEA. She went through hell and came out better for it, and it's not like she didn't earn it. She absolutely did. But I feel like she should have more sympathy for someone who has been going through hell for much longer and still hasn't found the same, especially when that someone went through some of the very same trials, worried for Tamlin's safety together, felt themselves powerless in the face of Amarantha.
How in the world did it lead to this, where Feyre thinks it's okay to use Lucien's mating bond against him, and to make fun of him?
I think it probably is the Tamlin thing. I know a lot of people can't forgive Lucien for trying to get Feyre back, despite the misapprehensions he was laboring under. I don't blame people for being frustrated that he tried to do that.
I like both of them, Lucien and Feyre, for very different reasons. It's like watching two of your friends fight and you know that they will get along eventually, but in the meantime they just won't get over their shit 😭
People do love to blame Lucien for the Elain and Nesta kidnapping thing, but honestly that just reads to me as intellectually dishonest and more about ships than what actually happened in the book. It's clear that not only did Lucien and Tamlin tell the King of Hybern no, but they had zero idea what Ianthe had done and were horrified when they brought the sisters out. Ianthe is the actual asshole in that situation. It's not hard to put that responsibility where it belongs. Feyre is the one who told Ianthe all about Nesta and Feyre, but no one is out here blaming her. So yeah. To me that's just about ships and coming up with an excuse not to ship something, which isn't really necessary anyway. Just like the thing or don't. I mean... why not blame Lucien for literally everything that Hybern did? Oh, because Hybern's actions are his own? Hm. (Sorry this just annoys me 😂)
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I think we can all agree Elain and Azriel are the two most underdeveloped 'MC' in ACOTAR. So if the next book is supposedly theirs, why not flesh one of them out more? With ACOSF, we barely scratched the surface with Azriel and who knows WTH is going on with Elain (I feel like she got even less page time in this book). SJM would have to toss Azriel's issues aside in order to prep him to play the supporting role for Elain becuz no way in hell should Elain be the one to support the both of them in HER own book.
My question to you, what would an Elriel book even be about? The 4th trove? Possibly. Mating bond rejection? Okay. What else? Certainly not Koschei. The Blood Duel? Doubt it. Autumn Court issues with Beron/Eris? Ummm, I don't think so. That connects to Lucien. So then, what? The only other thing I can think of is a new conflict but then that leaves Lucien's book heavily full of obstacles to overcome which would not give Lucien + Vassa enough time to develop their romance unless people are satisfied with off script romance but that's not SJM's style nor would SJM do that to Lucien.
Hello anon🤍,
You are correct to think so. An El/riel book wouldn't offer much except for “forbidden romance” which seems the main plot to them AND the most damaging trope for Azriel. And the Blood Duel? It could happen in one scene and then what? A spy? Very unlikely that even Azriel would step in and be the first one to object. The Autumn Court is tied to Lucien and not Elain/Azriel, what do they have to do with it (aside from Azriel spying).
Elain's book, being the last Archeron, is the one where Koschei should be defeated. The argument I see often is that Vassa should make the killing blow, she could in an Elain book and that literally would take one scene (a few pages) and not half of the book. Also considering that Vassa will be a Firebird most of the time. You'd think Sarah would give a full book to Vassa instead of Mor? but we all know why Mor is likely to get a novella than a full book. Remember, each book is focused on a couple (no 3rd POVS or multi POVS).
Sarah said she is excited to write Azriel's journey. His journey will require him to be the MC of it (like Chaol on TOD) because there are many MANY layers of Azriel we will need to uncover and explore. There are many issues related to him only that we will deal with. As you said, Elain will definitely be an MC and making Azriel her supporting MC is diminishing his journey/character development because the focus will be on her more than him and it will be such a burden to read about both because both have great trauma to deal with.
The only logical step towards giving everyone a HEA and resolving their storylines is this:
Azriel book (support pov: Gwyn)
Elain book (support pov: Lucien)
Mor novella (support pov: Emerie)
Vassa and Jurian's story will be resolved in the background in Elain's book.
Gwyn will compliment Azriel's journey, there are too many parallels between them to ignore.
There seems a spark from Emerie's side about Mor and we will probably see the chemistry between the two when Mor joins the Valkyries.
I keep hearing why would Elain break the bond if it's not in her book, and explain to me why she didn't in the two years she had lived with it? You're telling me Elain who asked Amren about her transformation to figure out how to turn back to human won't ask about a way to break the bond? She's not that obvlious. If SJM wanted to end Elucien for good she would've made her reject the bond earlier so Lucien can move on because rejection drives the males mad and it will give him time to move on at least. It's unrealistic for Elain to reject the bond in Book 5 and in Book 6 Lucien is suddenly in love with Vassa. It doesn't work that way.
Elain got less page time than she did in ACOWAR and barely any character development to set her up as MC of the next book. Sarah said by the end of ACOSF it will be clear who is next and unfortunately Elain had been nothing but a background charcater for a good chunk of the book.
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Okay here's the thing.. I respect everyone's opinions and they can ship whoever they want but like... For Elucien and Gwynriel... I literally cannot even see how. I would gladly ship them if someone gave me a valid reason. Elain avoids talking or even being in the same room as Lucien, and Azriel had one polite conversation with Gwyn. Az is just nice to her. As nice as he would be to any female. Elriel has foreshadowing & chemistry- The roses painted on her drawer and the rose necklace...👀
Strongly agree with all of this!! My main problem with anything that's not elriel is that a lot of anti-elriel shippers completely ignore or erase Elain. With these ships, it's always what benefits Elain does or doesn't bring. It's so misogynistic, people just ignore everything she's mentioned about her own heart and how she doesn't want a mate or the bond, she doesn't care for it, but oh Lucien's had such a hard life, he deserves his mate!!!!!
😒😒😒
Surely he deserves someone who wants him as much as he wants them, no?
Non-elriel-endgame with the canon we currently have would mean Elain's choices are stripped once again since she'd have to give up/lose the love she actually wants in favour of one she doesn't want that's attached to some cultural concept that means zilch to her and her human heart. I mean, sure sjm could spin it so Elain catches feelings for Lucien and they end up happily mated. But then what is the point of having Elain constantly avoid him for three books? That's not even setting up for a good relationship bc every time they interact/meet, the communication just gets worse.
While I can honestly see the potential of gwynriel bc platonic interactions can later become romantic, I still don't ship it bc it doesn't feel right the way elriel does to me. I can def see gwynriel becoming a strong healthy friendship, but if it's endgame then Elain ends up with Lucien, whom she visibly shrinks from and has been avoiding since acowar. She doesn't feel seen by him at all - as much as I love Lucien and truly do want him to have his own HEA, we can't deny that he's really just pursuing (I use pursuing in the loosest way since he's very respectful about it 😅) Elain bc of the bond. If we take that away, there's nothing between them imo and he probably wouldn't give Elain more than a passing glance for her beauty and that's it bc she's not the type of girl he's into.
But people don't wanna think about how that makes Elain feel. This girl who previously felt seen by only one person - who then rejected her bc of that bond itself - and craves someone to see who she truly is, is being courted by someone who doesn't actually like her for her, but just the idea of what a relationship with her would entail. He's only trying bc of some divine belief she doesn't share. That must suck like hell. It's almost objectfying, the bond. And again, I don't blame Lucien at all, not even for trying bc it is something that's important to him and his culture, but it's not a mutual thing. If it were important to Elain too and she just wasn't cooperating bc of some stupid shallow reason, then I'd be angry at her. But that's not the case at all.
But with Azriel, the first person to see her since Graysen, there's so much potential for growth - for both of them. They make each other feel seen. And for all that antis say neither has grown in the time they've known each other, how did Az pluck up the courage to almost kiss Elain after having not done anything with Mor for five centuries? How did Elain initiate that kiss - ie have the courage to follow her heart again after having it torn and shredded by Graysen? And anyway, weve never seen into Elain's head so we don't know what she feels has changed within her; we can only detect subtle changes from other povs, but there might be some huge changes in her learnt from Azriel, maybe about her outlook on life/strength, that she's just keeping hidden for the time (or that no one has bothered to see bc Elain is invisible 😭). Same with Azriel. One little chapter isn't gonna tell us everything he's been thinking the past two years.
But either way, we know now that they both have feelings for each other. Why is a mutual healthy relationship shut down so quickly, one where both partners' choices are taken heed of? If Elain had said no in that moment, Azriel would've stepped back instantly, no questions asked. He probably would've have some huge internal conflict about his own self worth but he wouldn't have gone further without Elain's consent. He's already shown he respects her, he said they've been sharing looks and touches, and these are things fandom eat up, so I don't understand why it's suddenly wrong or unwanted just bc Elain makes up half the ship.
And there's so much foreshadowing/symbolism that antis seem oblivious to, which, fair enough, interpret the text how you want. But even if somebody doesn't see the spark or blooming feelings between the pair throughout the books (how do they explain away all the stiffness whenever one of them is mentioned or is in the same room or something though? Genuinely curious here), there's a lot of plot foreshadowing. The Blood Duel has now been mentioned twice, as has the idea of breaking the bond, maybe more. There's the issue with Koschei and Elain not being able to see things related to him past mist and shadow. There's all this potential conflict that could arise between the Courts if elriel pursue their love, and conflict is the driving force of any novel.
If gwynriel were an IRL couple, I wouldn't care if there were never any conflict, but if I'm reading their story, I want more than just them falling in love and having internal conflict about whether they should kiss the other or not. Especially if the backdrop is a fantasy world on the brink of war with many players. I saw a gwynriel post mentioning Merrill once and while I do think she has the potential to be a running antagonist, I don't see her as anything but a subplot/crony for/associate with another stronger villain. I don't think she could carry a whole novel at the moment. So Gwyn is tied to nothing in the overarching plot. Same with Az. Not to mention all the theories about the Koschei/Swan Lake/firebird folklore that is potentially inspiring this new series in the acotar world. Of course, this could all change as we get more info about the next book/s and all, but compared to elriel certainly, I don't think there's as much conflict with gwynriel.
Ultimately, I don't claim knowledge of the next books' content, so I don't really care what people ship, but the main thing I take issue with is how they treat Elain in the midst. A lot of gwynriel arguments I've seen portray certain acts in a romantic/positive light for Gwyn but either completely ignore or erase any semblance of romance for Elain or tear her down. Like, we shouldn't push the narrative that Gwyn as an SA survivor can't have healthy meaningful sex in the future (yeah, of course I agree), yet some of the same people who say that are also people who judge and make fun of Elain and call her too vanilla for Az without having a clue what her bedroom habits/preferences are 🤯 This is just one of many. There are so many double standards I've seen for gwynriel against elriel and I'm just tired of it. And even if they're not doing any of that, they simply hate Elain and don't want her to be with Az and so ship gwynriel as the next best alternative. Like, can they not push down Elain in favour of Gwyn, please? That's so misogynistic 🤮
For all that this fandom flaunts the series being feminist with strong female characters, they sure do a good job in tearing down females who don't fit their definition of strong, despite even Feyre stating and acknowledging multiple times that Elain has a different kind of strength 😒
Gahhhhhhh. *exhales deeeeeeeeply* Sorry this is so damn LONG!! 😅😅😅😅😅 I did not expect to write a whole bloody essay lol but I hope it was fun/comforting to read at least 😅😆 I know I fall back on elriel posts when the ship war gets too intense bc I actually enjoy shipping elriel. They've become my otp, and I absolutely adore both characters of the ship; I think most of us elriels do. I haven't really seen any elriel stans who dislike/don't care for Elain and her welfare so it's nice being in this corner of the fandom where we can appreciate both Az and Elain equally. And of course, the other characters with their due respect. I truly do want Lucien to finally get his good life, but I don't think that's with Elain 😕
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Elain is really missing out on the gem that is Lucien Vanserra. Can’t wait for SJM to finally release these hostages and write their story so Lucien can show Elain all of who he is, I know she’ll fall in love so deeply.
Handsome
Courteous
Well mannered
Good with his hands
Doesn’t mind getting dirty (or wet)
Impeccably dressed for any and all occasions
Considerate
Pays attention (looking at you, magic gardening gloves)
Wonderful in social situations
Understands love lost and grief
Flirty
Sassy
Can fight with a sword but world rather resolve things with diplomacy
Open minded
Humble
Won’t start a fight but you best not try
And on and on and on
#just thinking#wandering mind#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#pro lucien vanserra#lucien vanserra#pro lucien#elain x lucien#lucien acotar#to the tulip fields elucien#pro elucien#elucien
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Not only would Lucien enjoy hearing Elain talk of her gardens, he would travel the world with her to see other gardens for inspiration, flower markets to buy seeds and bulbs to bring home, flower fields to lounge in and admire. He would use his connections in the other courts to plan their visits. He would probably even buy a home in the Spring Court for when they want to get away (once he’s able to reconcile with a healing Tamlin).
He would take her to the tulip fields Papa Archeron had planned to take her to and he would hold her as she wept, with joy enveloped in grief and longing. He would have words of comfort if she wished, or comforting silence if that was what was needed.
I hope they get to go.
#wandering mind#my maas wishlist#elucien#sjm give us peace#pro elucien#elain x lucien#pro lucien vanserra#pro elain#pro lucien#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#let ginger lucien be happy#let the flower and her sun be together#let elain travel#let lucien live#to the tulip fields elucien
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Lucien believed Jesminda was his mate. He believed strongly he’d found the highest form of love, a mating bond with someone he actually cared for and who reciprocated those same affections. That was the highest standard of love for the High Fae, and he’d been blessed to have it.
With her tragic and horrific death, Lucien believed he had lost his greatest love. That was it for him. No other love would compare or measure up. He grieved a love, a bond and a mate. That’s an unimaginable pain, but he moved forward with life believing he’d never get to experience this kind of love or connection again.
Time (Decades? Centuries? I forget.) went by, and then:
Friends, his voice broke. Because for so long he thought his one mate was gone. Because he’d grieved the loss of the bond. Because he realized his one possibility of a mate’s love had not been buried with the female he loved, whose torture and execution he was forced to witness, as he thought it’d been. Because something so potentially beautiful as the mating bond holds such horrific trauma for him.
So no, Lucien WHISPERING (not yelling) to Elain that she’s his mate is not a claiming, a possessing. It is heartbreak, shock, surprise, grief, tainted hope and cautious understanding.
I refuse to believe SJM would then turn around and give this character a rejected bond and make him settle for something other. Because no matter what, it would be a lesser love for Lucien and he certainly doesn’t deserve that.
It’s the highest standard or nothing for our sassy fox 🦊
#wandering mind#my maas wishlist#elucien#sjm give us peace#elain x lucien#lucien vanserra#elucien headcanon#elucien canon#elucien supremacy#pro elucien#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#let ginger lucien be happy#let the flower and her sun be together#anti elriel#anti vassien#anti e/riel
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“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
“Elain only stared at him for a long moment.”
*** “Elain only stared at him for a long moment.” ***
::: “Elain only stared at him for a long moment.” :::
#my maas wishlist#wandering mind#elucien#pro elucien#sjm give us peace#elain x lucien#anti vassien#anti e/riel#anti elriel#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#let the flower and her sun be together#can you repeat that for the e/riels
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#elucien canon#pro elucien#elucien#elain and lucien are good characters who should get their hea#let the flower and her sun be together#anti e/riel#anti elriel#anti vassien#the text is telling#sjm give us peace
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This post is going to sound slightly Anti Az so just skip by if that's something that will upset you. I'm not Anti Az, I think he's fine though not my favorite, but I often see that any little thing we're given for him tends to result in Lucien and Elain's setup being pushed to the side and this post will reflect that.
The post will also contain minor spoilers for the ACOTAR characters in HOFAS.
With the release of HOFAS there has been an influx of posts from E/riels claiming Elain's book is next, E/riel confirmed.
There has also been an influx of posts saying Az's book is next, that HOFAS proves this.
But.......
Why would Az get the girl before Lucien when Lucien has been waiting for Elain for two years and if Az's book is next, he'll have gone from not being able to admit he's over Mor, lusting after Elain, then into a HEA with his mate within a year?
Why would Gwyn's heritage be discovered before Lucien discovers his when Lucien's secret about his father was revealed to the reader in ACOWAR and hinted at in ACOMAF? Why should any hints we were given for Azriel's heritage in HOFAS be revealed before Lucien's when again, Lucien's were introduced to the storyline years ago?
Why would Az settle his issues with Eris if Gwyn's Autumn ties turn out to be important before Lucien settles his issues with his own brother?
Why would Gwynriel visit the Autumn Court because of a relative Gwyn has never met before Lucien is allowed to reconnect with his own mother when his issues with the Autumn Court were introduced in book 1? Where it's confirmed he's her favorite son in ACOWAR?
Why should Az get his HEA before Elain when he's the one who rejected her?
Why should Az get his HEA before Lucien when he's the one who claimed Lucien wasn't good enough?
Why should the things that happened in a different series that didn't actually set up for any immediate concerns within their world (hinted at them yes but that is all) when Koschei, Beron and Spring are real threats / problems they've needed to deal with for multiple books? We now know Truth Teller has special powers and a unique backstory but we've also known for quite a while that both Elain and Lucien have undiscovered powers. And yes, there will probably be more to explore with the Prison and Ramiel and it seems Az might now worry that if Bryce could enter their world than who else can but right now, no one outside their planet is actually threatening their world. At the end of HOFAS, we don't have evidence that the IC is under duress of a new enemy. So why would SJM create an entirely new threat for the next ACOTAR book when they still haven't resolved all the major threats from Silver Flames? Doing nothing about Koschei and Beron or Spring for another 4-9 months (depending on the length of a Gwynriel book) seems really odd to me especially when SF ended with Eris saying their big problems are his father, Koschei and the treaty.
Why should a 500 year old male who already has a found home and found family have the chance to tell his story before a 24 year old who will remain stuck in limbo "not belonging" without a found family or home of her own until her POV? Does it makes sense that SJM would give Az a HEA while Elain continues struggling in a court that sucks the life from her?
Why should that same male, with his found family, get his HEA when Lucien still doesn't have a true home of his own? When we know Lucien is struggling with not having one?
Why does the Az bonus in SF trump Lucien's actual pov in ACOWAR?
Why would it be ok for Elain to continue sitting on all the traumas she's been through in order for Az to find his HEA first even though the other two Archeron's were given the chance to deal with their traumas in their own voices before Az?
Why would Rhys and Feyre declare they'd help one sister before helping the other then just forget about helping Elain through the entirety of Az's book? Does it make sense to have another book of Elain gardening in the background (we know she can't actually get involved in a major way before her book if she's meant to leave the NC so It would start feeling just a bit ridiculous for SJM to spend yet another book reminding us how she doesn't fit in).
Why would the IC have made such a big deal about Tamlin not getting better in SF then let him sit there, not getting better for another book?
Why would Koschei say "tell my Vassa I'm waiting" at the end of SF then just not bother calling her back for another book?
Also near the end of the crossover, we have this scene:
Why would Nesta, after getting her HEA in SF be struggling to find her way unless.... she was struggling with who she was outside of being Elain's protector because Elain has left the Night Court and no longer needs her?
But at the end of it all, why are readers putting more weight into anything discovered in CC3 when it has not yet been introduced into the actual ACOTAR series? CC3 is not greater than SF in terms of what's important to the ACOTAR characters right now. SF still remains the focus of the ACOTAR characters and the pressing concerns in their world right now remain that of Koschei, Beron, Vassa, and Tamlin (all things connected to Lucien much more than they are connected to Az).
The Valkyries were laughing over the Illyrians at the end of SF but no one was laughing about Tamlin, Koschei or Beron.
#elucien#pro elucien#elain archeron#lucien vanserra#pro lucien vanserra#elucien supremacy#lucien spell cleaver#Anti Azriel being made more important than Lucien
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How would you feel if ACOTAR 5 is gwynriel instead of elucien? In one of SJM interviews she stated that after finishing acotar5 she will be working on the 1st book of a different series. So that means acotar6 will come out 2027.
Disappointed. I think there gets to be a point where an author drags out a particular storyline too long (the Blood and Ash series come to mind) and the writing suffers as a result.
Vassa was taken in ACOMAF, we found out by who in ACOWAR and that she as well as the other girls at the lake have been cursed / kidnapped by Koschei. In ACOFAS we're told her freedom will come to an end and reminded of that in ACOSF.
Spring was destroyed in ACOWAR and in ACOFAS, we're told Tamlin is severely depressed but that they'll still need Spring as an ally. SF shows it's been awhile and Tamlin isn't getting better, that they know they need a strong ally in Springs army.
Elucien's bond snapped in ACOMAF, Elain was turned fae and in ACOWAR she lost her father, stabbed a man, was rejected by Graysen, fought with her sister in SF and was rejected by Az yet we've not once been given her inner thoughts of all she's experienced. We don't even see any of the main characters trying to talk to her about any of those things.
And Lucien, the list is too long to include on all his unresolved plots.
Having Nesta's story told first made sense to me because there was never going to be Elucien progress until Nesta began letting go of her protectiveness over Elain, to accept the idea of Lucien (and technically, Nessian's bond was hinted at before Elucien's bond snapped).
Her healing arc was important to Feyre and Elain's stories too (along with herself of course) however it wasn't very plot heavy. But there was no moving forward for anyone until Nesta's anger wasn't destroying everything in Nesta's path. The series, since book 2, has been as much about the sisters relationship to one another as plot and romance and closing that out before moving into a new era makes sense to me.
But Az having his story before Elain and Lucien doesn't seem to fit especially when a Gwynriel romance would probably need at least 6 - 9 months (meaning that almost another year would go by before we even start getting resolution to the above).
I'm not sure that I see anything in his story that is necessary to lead us into the Koschei storyline.
He wasn't in Feyre's "Let's help one sister before helping the other" speech, he wasn't part of Feyre's "I want them all to be happy" speech in ACOFAS.
To me the Illyrians aren't a bigger concern to their entire world than Vallahan setting their sights on the humans or Beron trying to ally with Koschei or how an entire court is now being neglected by its High Lord.
Dragging out Vassa, Koschei, Lucien's father reveal, the Elucien bond, the girls who were kidnapped, Spring, Elain healing from her trauma while she continues to remain in a court she doesn't truly belong just so Az can have his story which doesn't fit in to any of those things does not make any sense to me and honestly, I think it sends a weird message.
"I think Lucien will never be good enough for her"
"I'll defeat him with little effort"
"I know, I helped rescue Elain after all"
"There is a darkness to the Dread Trove that Elain should not be exposed to"
"She has no interest in him anyway"
Az (no offense) is kind of a dick at times outside of the priestesses.
He makes Mor so uneasy with his behavior that she feels like she needs to lie about what she's doing so he doesn't brood.
He is jealous and bitter towards Lucien and speaks for Elain without ever acknowledging her bravery and strength.
He gives off Tamlin vibes at times and to me that means he needs to be on a time out for a bit. Where he has to really sit and think on why his behaviors were wrong, why he tried to keep Mor and Elain small so he could be the hero, why he had such issues with a guy who is a very decent person.
Giving him a HEA after he treated them like that while Mor still remains unlucky in love, Lucien is struggling, Elain has no found family, it feels like jumping over an important lesson for Az to learn so he can become worthy of Gwyn. Not just in who he is when around her but who he is on his own.
I think Az seeing them happy and actually being happy for them is an important arc for his character.
But, in the end that's just my perception of the situation.
I don't know how SJM thinks, what her plan is, and if Elucien is not next than there's not much I can do but wait!
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Normally I try not to be overly controversial in my posts and I do try to stick with what I think SJM would do based on her patterns. I like to analyze the books as they’ve been written rather than saying “well I think this should happen because it just seems the right way to go about it”.
This one sort of goes against all that though because it’s basically narrowing the characters down to their traumas and "what” they are on an observable level rather than considering who they are despite all of that (and acknowledging all the other factors that contribute to their entire self). I also don’t claim that SJM shares this same view. It’s completely my opinion and my opinion alone. This post simplifies things in a way that I normally don’t like to do when it surrounds things that are considered TW.
There are a million other reasons I think Elucien is endgame. They are written in a way that’s beautifully compatible and share similar core values and that’s already enough to convince me. Without that though, Lucien is a SA survivor, a disabled Biracial male, and a sort of Domestic Abuse survivor too (considering Tamlin threatened him with his power on multiple occasions and has also physically assaulted him for no good reason and he experienced abuse at the hands of Beron and his brothers). I’d be surprised for an author to give her MMC a backstory with so many things that are considered sensitive subjects only to have his “Cauldron Given” Mate (the thing that is supposed to be the most sacred to these Fae) reject him for a Male who really doesn’t seem to care whether he kills him or not.
Anti’s always says, “it’s Elain’s choice!” but Elain’s choice could still include her Mate by the end of things. Our choices change as we grow so trying to box her into one decision before she even knows who she is is a bit odd.
And Elain is not the only character SJM cares for. Lucien has been a MAJOR player in nearly every book so he’s not in this series to end up a casualty of one of the FMC. And having Elain reject her Mate who is a SA survivor, DA survivor, and a disabled biracial Male for Az who is not her Mate (and will therefore not be subjected to live the rest of his life feeling the pains of an unfulfilled Mating Bond) would be really disheartening.
In the same vein, Gwyn is not only a SA survivor. There is so much more to her beyond something that happened to her so her story shouldn’t be decided based off that and that alone. But, I do think creating a storyline where the first (non taken) Male she interacted with after her assault was Azriel, where she shows obvious comfort being near him alone though she’s still hesitant to leave the library, where she’s shown flirtation toward him, only to have him end up with Elain over her in the end would read as a little callous towards Gwyn.
Maybe I’m not understanding where SJM is going with everything but to me, she doesn’t seem like the kind of author to put those things into her book only to be like, “sorry, no Mate for you” in the end. She loves HEA (as most of us do) and having a character like Lucien, for the rest of his life, being forced to accept that his Mate rejected him doesn’t seem like her style.
Now, if SJM does go the route of E/riel, I’m not going to come after her with a pitchfork and accuse her of being disrespectful towards those sensitive subjects because at the end of the day, these are fantasy books and difficult things happen to every character. In the end, she’s going to write about whatever felt right for her, regardless of who she wrote certain characters to be or the backstory’s she’s given them. And I get that, she shouldn’t have to base who ends up with who on what we consider morally acceptable.
But for Elain and Lucien to have a happy Mating Bond (which is still a very real possibility)? To have Gwyn and Az share the same? Why wouldn't you want to see that for characters who have struggled so much?
#elucien#gywnriel#pro elucien#pro gwynriel#lucien vanserra#gwyneth berdara#pro lucien vanserra#pro gwyneth berdara
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In the live where sjm was asked if Azriel's book is next and she says she can't confirm anything yet, but once we get to the end of acosf, we should know who it is. We know that it is most probably Elain's, but then she says that Azriel's journey is something she is very excited to write, which leads me to believe he will be the love interest. Before acosf, she said in some live talk that she discussed what happens next (after acosf) what happens with Elain, Mor, and Azriel with her editor and it terrifies me to think that she might have watered down Elain's journey to her being stuck between a situation where Azriel is struggling with his lingering feelings with Mor, and also his love for elain that he totally felt since the beginning.
Sjm is known to be a "pantser" type of author and that is clear in many of the scenes she writes. She does not go with outlines and she even said some ships could collapse mid-draft. I honestly think it's just poor writing. I am worried she could develop clues for a ship and build entire potential plots, just for her to give up and go for something less interesting. This sounded like a very anti sjm rant but I promise it's not that 🙂
At about the 25:00 minute mark of the Live Talks with Eva Chen Interview, SJM tells us that as soon as Nesta and Elain came back onto the page in ACOMAF, she knew that they would have journey's beyond what Feyre was seeing.
"When I was working on ACOWAR, I began working on this book for fun and at the time I was only contracted for the initial three books of the series".
"I wound up writing a couple hundreds of pages of it (SF)"
"There was a lot I wanted to do in this world"
"I went out to lunch with my then editor many years ago and had one too many drinks and wound up drunkenly pitching her these books."
"I was writing ACOWAR but finishing up MAF at the time"
"What plans I had for Elain and for Mor and for Azriel."
"Two weeks later I got a call that they wanted to buy these books."
"Because I knew so early on while I was finishing up MAF and finishing up ACOWAR. Because I knew this was where I wanted things to go it allowed me to plant things for her journey and even Elain's journey early on."
SJM did say she's excited to write Az's journey. But she's tricky with her words and just because she said "when you get to the end of SF I think you'll know who the next book is about and Az's journey is one I'm very excited to write about." it might not be what some are thinking.
Because SJM is tricky with words, she could be telling us that Elain's book is next, she'll end up with Lucien and during their book she will continue laying crumbs for Az's journey as she's excited to begin the groundwork for his eventual book.
SJM said the sisters were going to have journeys of their own all the way back in book 2 and was able to plant things for their journeys early on. That means she often builds up an individual characters journey long before they get a book of their own.
SF made it extremely clear that Az is jealous of Lucien. It's evident that Az thinks he could easily defeat Lucien in a duel. That Az doesn't think Lucien is good enough for Elain.
So wouldn't an Elucien book where Az realizes that no, he actually would not easily defeat Lucien, where yes, Lucien is definitely good enough for Elain, be something that would setup Az's future journey?
I actually think it makes a lot of sense that after Az threw the tantrum he did and said the things he did, the author would make him eat his words and see Elucien happy and Lucien powerful.
"When you get to the end of SF".
The Az Bonus took place on Solstice.
Az rejected Elain on Solstice and she returned his gift. To me, getting inside her mind for that is more important than Az getting a HEA with his mate first as it's now the second time she's been rejected by someone.
At the end of SF, we're told that Beron (Lucien's "father") is a major concern as he's now looking to ally with Koschei.
At the end of SF, we find out Eris (Lucien's brother) is being tortured by Beron.
At the end of SF, we see the sisters visit their fathers grave and, though we don't know what was said, Elain whispered a few things to him.
After Feyre and Nesta, doesn't 'it seem like Elain deserves a chance to have a POV of her own? Where we can finally read how she's doing with the death of their father? Since she was the closest to him? Does Az being pissy over not getting a mate really trump everything Elain has gone through since the series began? Being turned fae? Losing her fiance? Stabbing the King? Losing her father? Dealing with the effects of the bond?
At the end of SF, we see Nesta take Elain's wooden carving and place it on their fathers gravestone as a permanent marker of the beauty and the good he tried to bring into the world.
The end of SF ends with Elain's carving.
Yes, Az got a POV in the middle of the book. But by the end of SF, there was nothing to really suggest that Az is heavily connected to the current threats of their world. Not when it's Eris and Lucien's father torturing Eris and looking to ally with Koschei. Not when they mentioned how important it is they get the Spring Courts forces as an ally and Tamlin is not getting better. Not when Koschei said to tell his Vassa he's waiting (Vassa being Lucien's friend and the person Elain had visions about). Not when SJM has been talking about the sisters journey since book 2.
Side note, I think you've just said it yourself why Elain won't end up with Az. "Struggling with his feelings for Mor and also his love for Elain which he's totally felt from the beginning".
Worst romance ever, don't you think? The male simultaneously being in love with two females? 😬
That's not really an SJM trope and since Az looked at Mor with yearning in ACOFAS, I doubt he really had feelings for Elain then.
#elucien#pro elucien#elain archeron#lucien vanserra#anti e/riel#pro lucien vanserra#lucien and elain#elain and lucien#pro elain archeron#sarah j mass#antielriel
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Do you ever stop and consider the fact that Lucien has no one who really has his back?
............
He's got "friends" everywhere and is liked by so many but where is his support system?
............
Tamlin, who was his friend, hasn't been much of one since the start of the series. Threats, physical assault, ignoring him for something that couldn't be helped after the battle, dumping his clothes at his front door. And with everything that's happened since the war, Tamlin has been focused only on himself while Lucien still makes an effort for Tamlin despite everything he himself has been struggling with.
............
He obviously hasn't found it from his real brothers (maybe there's hope for he and Eris in the future but we'll have to wait and see).
............
Feyre was a friend but she still chose to use Lucien as a pawn in her schemes despite Lucien having been SA by Ianthe and continually threatened by Tamlin. He had to insist that he was coming with her after what happened in Spring though she was prepared to leave him behind. And even though she had previously slipped into Lucien’s mind and saw him, the guilt, sadness and hopelessness, she still doubted his intentions with Elain at first. The IC still questions whether Lucien can be trusted in SF after he's done nothing but help them out over and over again.
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Az claims Lucien’s not good enough for Elain for literally no other reason but jealousy.
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Jurian and Vassa are his friends but we don't know whether they're really looking out for Lucien’s best interests. It's so new, we haven't gotten that sense of brother and sisterhood from the three, that undying love and loyalty.
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The IC all piss one another off at times but you know that they are always each other's biggest supporters and would do anything for each other.
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But I really can't name one character who is that person for Lucien right now. Who not only cares about how he's doing but gives him reassurance that everything will work out and that he's not alone. Who gives him unwavering loyalty.
............
Of course no one is "entitled" to another person but:
“if they’re blessed, they’ll find their mate—their equal, their match in every way. High Fae wed without the mating bond, but if you find your mate, the bond is so deep that marriage is … insignificant in comparison.”
............
Lucien has remained loyal to even those that haven't been loyal to him. Does it honestly make sense to give the one main character who has gone so long without someone fully in his corner a rejected Mating Bond? The one relationship that (if with a truly matched pair) is a guarantee you will find your biggest supporter?
............
Az deserves happiness and the chance to find his own Mate but, regardless of what happens, he will still have the love and loyalty of the entire IC. They have had his back for centuries and will continue to do so even if he doesn't end up with the Mate of the male he's insanely jealous over. I like Az well enough but his HEA should not come at the expense of Lucien's. Of course it's Elain's decision too but the point is that I can't imagine SJM writing a story where Az "gets the girl" over Lucien, a character who has only ever shown respect for Elain and a character who deserves to finally have the family he's been missing out on with a female he shares a sacred bond with.
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I’m really annoyed by all the off-page development Elriels are trying to push on Elain lately. She has her found family with the wraiths! She’s already in love with Azriel! She’s training to be a spy! She’s happy in the Night Court! Why would SJM give us basically every bit of Elain’s healing journey off page? There’s no point in an Elain book if everything they are saying is true. I swear they’re getting louder and ruder on every platform lately & it really irks me that they accuse people of being all sorts of nasty things for not wanting Elriel whenever their headcanons would pretty much rob those of us who like Elain from seeing her develop on page. Not to mention how much of a reach some of those things are — we’ve been told over and over Elain in her element is social, loves parties and events, and wants to be seen. Doesn’t really fit with Az’s description of spy craft when he and Cass are waiting around in ACOSF. And maybe I have blinders on, but I 100% do not think Elriel is in love. Lust? Interest? Sure. But not love. I used to think they’d have a fling, but looking back at things, I don’t even think that will happen with how their “relationship” played out in ACOSF. Sorry for the long rant. Blogs like yours give me hope with all the informative responses & level headedness.
Why would anyone even want a book like that?
Why do they want Elain fully healed when we could read about her anguish over the loss of her father, the devastation over being made and losing what she thought was the love of her life? Though I imagine once she falls in love with Lucien, she'll realize the difference between puppy love and true love ❤️😍
Why do they want Elain in love when we never got to hear her thoughts on how it felt to fall?
Why do they want Elain to have her found family when we've never witnessed the sharing of banter that led them to that point?
And why does anyone want her in the NC when one sister only thinks of her as a pleasant companion, one sister thinks of her as a dog, and neither Az or Nesta feel she should be allowed to do the very thing Nesta herself did?
I don't want Elain to be fine and dandy at the start of her book. I want to read the depth and intensity of her emotions because of her pain and suffering over everything that's happened to her😂 That sounds cruel but it does make the eventual HEA more meaningful.
I know not everyone sees it but Elain is intelligent and very good at conveying her thoughts with words (though we haven't seen it often). Where Feyre wasn't the best at explaining what she was feeling and Nesta's go to tactic was to lash out and blame others for what she was feeling, Elain is a character who can really delve deep with her words and that's exciting to me. But her starting off having all the things makes her character come off as extremely shallow with no need to feel much at all other than "I'm so happy! I have the greatest friends! I love Az!". 🤢😂
And thank you for your comments at the end!
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