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scoobydoodean · 4 months

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ok so I deeply love and respect your thoughts on supernatural because the majority of them line up with what I've been thinking for years but you said something the other day that I keep turning over in my brain and it was something along the lines of carver liking dean more than sam - I know you're in the middle of rewatching s4 but I would love to hear you expound on that (if you have time) because I remember being in the fandom while carvernatural was airing and it was pretty much when the deangirl exodus started. in fact I think people tore into him worse than dabb even 😭

feel free to hold onto this until later when you start the carver seasons if you wish :)

<3 I'll go ahead and answer this one, because it's more of a "broad strokes" thing for me, and I've been rewatching very slowly (on purpose) so that could be a very long wait.

This is so funny because I can just picture Sam fans reading it and turning red and their blood boiling with the fire of a thousand suns but the TL;DR is that season 8-11 (Carver era) broad strokes to me are:

Sam sucks and is a worse brother and person than Dean.

Sam spends the first two seasons of Carver's run thinking he's a better person than Dean anyway and then the second two knowing he sucks, deciding to embrace his moral flexibility to keep Dean alive no matter the cost, and trying to mend things.

Dean is circled by many potential suitors who also in a sense represent Sam replacements because Sam sucks: Benny, Cas, Crowley, and Amara.

Dean knows that Sam sucks and part of him wants to get tf away from him very badly but another part of him feels guilty for wanting that. Family is suffering. Family is a chain around your neck keeping you tied to them via guilt. (Demon Dean represents the desire for escape, as does Amara).

Everybody wants to be with Dean, be Dean, and/or be loved by Dean. Dean is love. Dean is the world. Dean is the reason for existing. Everybody is lovesick about him. Sam is just there.

Sam needs to stop blaming Dean for so many things and learn to own his own choices.

That was fun to write down.

Longer commentary/explanation below the cut.

Season 8 (Carver's first season) literally begins with a Sam character assassination. It begins with us learning that Sam knowingly left Kevin to spend the rest of his life kidnapped and tortured without even telling a soul what happened to him. Not only did he abandon Dean and Cas as well but he didn't even look for them, and refuses to give a satisfying answer as to why.

Season 8 Sam's abandonment as distinct from previous behavior

I have had people this year who I love and respect tell me they don't view this as a character assassination and say they believe this is in character for Sam. I simply do not agree with that. I talk about this as it relates to Kevin here.

Sam has displayed selfishness and a big ego at many points in the series up to season 8. He's told a lot of lies (sometimes to the point of gaslighting), he's gone behind Dean's back to do things that affect Dean's life, he's taken traumatic experiences Dean opened up to him about and ultimately harmed Dean with them, he's shown resentments and anger, he's displayed jealousy, he's displayed a sense of superiority. He has never abandoned his brother to die without even trying. The Sam of season 3 would eviscerate season 8 Sam for this.

Sometimes Sam says and does things he shouldn't, but his crimes do not include "abandoning Dean to die without even looking for him" up to season 8. Many of his crimes happen at least partly because he really really doesn't want Dean to die or is desperate to save his life. He lets go of his anger at John and returns to make sure Dean is safe in 1.11. He refuses to give up and finds a way to save Dean in 1.12. In 1.22, he's willing to put John's life at risk for revenge, but in 2.01 he gets into an outright screaming match with John in the hospital under the belief that John's prioritizing the demon over Dean. Sam spends all of season 3 raging and angst-ing about not being able to save Dean to the point of considering and doing some shady as hell things/abandoning some of his more stalwart moral stances (3.05, 3.11, 3.15, 3.16). Dean's death and later, the desire to secure his safety/future, is one of the catalysts for Sam's descent into drinking demon blood (3.09, 3.16, 4.04, 4.09, 4.12). When he dies in "Swan Song", he urges Dean to pursue a normal, safe, life because he knows that at that point in time, Dean wants to get out but has always felt trapped (2.09, 2.10, 2.20, 3.01, 4.12, 4.16). Even Soulless Sam (who isn't the same as regular Sam) tried to look for Dean in 6.09 "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"—it was simply that when leads for the night dried up, he hooked up with someone because he had nothing more to go on and in soulless Sam's head that was the reasonable thing to do. But soulless Sam also certainly isn't representative of the real Sam—the fact that he doesn't care as much is supposed to point us to differences between him and regular Sam. Season 8 opens with Sam abandoning Dean in a context that makes him arguably worse than his soulless self.

(I talk about why Sam actually abandons everyone in season 8 in a very long post here).

Season 8 and 9 more broadly

So Carver has Sam abandon Dean to die without even trying. Then he has Sam refuse to give any kind of actually reasonable explanation that makes sense to anyone who was paying attention. Then he has Sam say that he's going to leave the life and Dean needs to get over it and accept that Sam's new life will not include contact with Dean (just like his life at Stanford didn't). While saying he's going to leave, he still wants to exert control over Dean's relationships and leverages the threat of leaving (as if he were going to stay) to get Dean to shut up about Sam abandoning him and then again to try and get Dean to cut ties with Benny. He wants to kill Benny before knowing a single thing about him. He assigns someone (Martin) who he knows is mentally unstable and has a more black and white perception of monsters to track Benny and gets Martin killed. He watches Martin knock Dean unconscious and chain him up in a room and doesn't stop it because he wants Benny dead that bad, but then has the audacity to act as if Dean sending him a fake text is worse than Sam literally chaining him up in a room to prevent Sam from killing an innocent person (someone Sam would normally—btw—defend based on episodes like 2.03 and 4.04 or even a few episodes ago with Kate in "Bitten"). He tells Amelia he wants to fight for their relationship then the moment Dan says they should leave the choice to Amelia, he leaves so that it becomes his choice, and then he returns for one episode just to be a homewrecker. He insists on doing The Trials while promising to survive them and giving a big speech about how he's going to save Dean from his own suicidal ideation and then drops the promise as if it never existed two episodes later. Sam loses confidence in himself to complete The Trials and then acts like Dean is the one who doesn't believe in him because Dean is caring for him and insisting he rest and this is an unforgivable offense. At the end of the season, he basically says he's going to commit suicide because Dean has friends besides him. He acts as if he deserves to be Dean's most trusted confidant after an entire season of him being an absolutely fucking terrible brother and acts like Dean is just a big meanie whose feelings are irrational.

After all of this, he has the audacity, in season 9, to suggest that Dean is a bad person who can't stand the thought of being alone. He tells Dean he's the worst person ever and they can only be work partners from now on because Dean is so so bad and evil for stopping him from committing suicide and then not telling him about Gadreel. At the end of the season he admits this was a lie. He just wanted to punish Dean (9.23).

I can see how—if you were watching live at the time (I started watching when season 11 was airing) you'd lose hope. You'd quit the show over all of this, because it seems to go on forever. It's like torture. I would drop kick season 8 Sam into a pit full of lava without hesitation so I get it. If I believed that Carver was actually saying "Yes so true Dean is The Worst™️ and Sam is morally superior <3" for two seasons straight I'd quit the show too. But that isn't what he's saying. We're supposed to read between the lines and realize how unbelievably full of shit Sam is—how deeply selfish and hypocritical he's being. How yes—Dean has made mistakes—but Sam is NOT a better person than him and has gotten away with some absolutely rancid garbage. And season 10 and 11 go on to beat you over the head with it if you didn't get it the first time.

Season 10 and 11

Season 10 opens with this dialogue from a demon:

I heard the rumors. I said "no, that can't be." A Winchester, one of us? But it's true, isn't it? Whatever soul you had; whatever boy scout code you cuddled up to at night; it's all gone. Leaving what? Look at you!

We're meant to think she's talking about Dean who just woke up with black eyes, but then the camera cuts to Sam torturing her, demanding to know where Dean is.

In 10.03, we learn that Sam talked a man (Lester) into selling his soul so he could use him as bait. Demon Dean ends up being assigned to fulfill Lester's deal (to kill his wife for cheating on him). Dean immediately clocks Lester as having cheated on her first and kills Lester for being an insufferable hypocrite... and while he's doing it, I'm pretty sure he's also thinking of Sam's flaming hypocrisy.

SAM: I never meant— DEMON DEAN: Who cares what you meant?! That line that we thought was so clear between us and the things that we hunted, ain’t so clear is it? Wow. You might actually be worse than me! I mean, you took a guy at his lowest, used him, and it cost him his life and his soul. Nice work.

NOTE: 10.03 also recalls 4.21—an episode Sam fans have always tended to emphasize as a "Dean crime" episode where Dean risks Sam's death to force a detox. Sam does the reverse—pumping Dean full of human blood here in 10.03 and explicitly risking his death.

Sam gets Suzie killed in "The Werther Project" while searching for The Book of the Damned.

SAM I’m sorry, okay? I’m so sorry. SUZIE Lot of good “sorry” does me. Look at me. Look….at….me. [She points to her corpse.] There she is. The first casualty of your misguided mission. But what’s another human life to you? Anything’s worth it, as long as you two make it out alive. And how’s that search going? Any closer to a cure? SAM This isn’t real. You’re not real. SUZIE You think Dean’s the wild card, the loose cannon. But don’t you see? Making deals with witches, opening Pandora’s box down there? You’re the reckless one. You’ll do anything to keep clinging to that doomed brother of yours. How many more will die, Sammy? You know it. You have to be stopped. And the only one who can stop you is you!

A few episodes later, Sam orders Oskar's death for a spell to remove the Mark of Cain. I've seen hilarious posts before about how he had no choice but to do this because MoC Dean is so scawy and bad but that quite explicitly is not his motivation. They could have done so many other things. Throw him into space. Bury him in a really deep hole. Put him in something like The Cage. But Sam didn't like any of those options, because all of them meant being without his brother, and he's realized he doesn't want to be without him no matter the cost (10.18).

SAM So, awhile back, we had a chance to, um…close the gates of Hell. And in order to do that, I would’ve had to die. And, I was okay with that, and I am okay with that, but Dean was not. And so, he uh… CHARLIE He saved you. SAM Yeah, he saved me. CHARLIE And let me guess, in doing so, he did something you didn’t want, and that pissed you off. And you said something that hurt him? SAM Yeah, that sounds about right. [...] SAM You know, when Dean came to get me at school, I-I told myself… one last job, you know? One more job. And then when – when I, um…. When I lost Jess, I, again, told myself one more job. There’s always one more job, you know? And one more job, and one more job, and then I was gonna go back to law and – and to my life. CHARLIE You were the Dread Pirate Roberts of hunting. SAM Yeah. I guess I really understand now that….this is my life. I love it. But I can’t do it without my brother. I don’t want to do it without my brother. And if he’s gone, then I don’t…. CHARLIE I got it. I-I do.

This all culminates in 10.23, where a very mentally unstable MoC Dean attempts to reason with Sam about them both being evil and needing to take themselves out:

DEAN: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human, about to close the Gates of Hell? Well, you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then. SAM: Yeah, and, Dean, you pulled me back. DEAN: And I was wrong. You were right, Sam. You knew that this world would be better without us in it. SAM: No, no, no, wait a second. You're twisting my words here, Dean. DEAN: Why? Because we -- we track evil and kill it? The family business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us. And it nukes everything in our vicinity -- our family, our friends. It's time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it. SAM: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen... We're far from perfect, but we are good. That thing on your arm is evil, but not you, not me. DEAN: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you --when you drove that man to sell his soul... Or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? A-a good end? A just end? To remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, how is that not evil? I have this thing on my arm, and you're willing to let the Darkness into the world. SAM: You were also willing to summon death to make sure you could never do any more harm. You summoned me because you knew I would do anything to protect you. That's not evil, Dean. That's not an evil man. That is a good man crying to be heard, searching for... some other way.

Dean is saying a lot of shady shit here, but some of what he's saying... isn't wrong?

Sam is willing to let The Darkness destroy the world, and he does, and then standing in the aftermath of a town being destroyed by the force he unleashed, Sam says:

SAM: I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it . . . to save you. DEAN: And I told you not to. SAM: And I'd do it again. In a second, I would do it again.

Thousands of people are dying and Sam says he would do it again. This post about Sam's actions versus Dean stopping Sam from closing the gates of hell is highly relevant.

Season 11 continues with Sam taking a little more responsibility for his own decisions, while praying for Dean to live (11.02):

SAM: So . . . I know it's been a long time, but . . . Dean and I, we've -- we've been through a lot of bad. But this is different. This is my fault, and I don't know how to fix it. And if I have to die, I've made my peace with that, but . . . Please. Dean deserves better. Dean deserves a life. There are people out there, good people, who are going to suffer because of me, and I am not asking you to clean up my mess. Hell, I don't even know if you're out there, but . . . If you are . . . And if you can hear me, I, um . . . We need your help, God. We need to know there's hope. We need a sign.

And then there's the VERY long-awaited apology:

SAM When I was with Lucifer, he, um... He showed me things. It was like a highlight reel of my biggest failures. DEAN Yeah, he was messing with you. That's what he does. SAM Give me a sec. I should've looked for you. When you were in Purgatory, I... I should've turned over every stone.

Family (Sam) as chains

While all of this is happening, we also have Benny and Cas and Crowley and Amara.

Benny is contrast—someone whose goodness and selfless loyalty only makes Sam's horrible flaws stand out more sharply in season 8. Under the influence of the specter, Dean says, "Benny has been more of a brother to me this past year than you have ever been" and Sam can't stand it. It haunts him so bad he tries to kill Benny, and can't get over it even after the end of the season when Benny is fucking dead. He is unable to accept that the contrast between himself and Benny is his own fault.

Crowley and Dean's flirtations begin in season 9, as Sam suffocates Dean, and at the end of the season, Crowley has literally convinced Dean to run away with him. In 10.01, there is a delightful phone call where Crowley rubs it in Sam's face that Dean is with HIM:

SAM I don't know how you did this, what kind of... Black-magic stunt you pulled, but hear me --I will save my brother or die trying. CROWLEY You know what tickles me about all this? It's what's really eating you up. You don't care that he's a demon. Heck, you've been a demon. We've all been demons. No, it's that he's with me and he's having the time of his life. You can't stand the fact that he's mine. SAM He's not your pet. CROWLEY My pet? He's my best friend, my partner in crime. They'll write songs about us, graphic novels. “The Misadventures of Growley and Squirrel." Dean Winchester completes me, and that's what makes you lose your chickens.

It's this cruel callback to Sam's jealousy of Benny and Cas in season 8—how Crowley convinced Dean to finally ditch his smothering, controlling brat of little brother who can't stand him having friends, and now Dean is having the time of his life howling at the moon. The problem is, Dean also feels a little bit like maybe Crowley wants to control him too, and that isn't working for him.

Amara in season 11 goes on to further speak on terrible brothers who think they're better than you, who leave you betrayed and diminished, who abandon you. She's raging against the concept of family as chains—she wants revenge... but all the while she's in pain because she still loves her brother. Amara's attraction to Dean is based on that commonality—what she feels is a shared experience and how she wants to cut the last remaining pieces of love she feels for her brother away so she can finally be free of the pain of him—and she doesn't care if she destroys everything—including herself—in the process. (See: Dean slowly losing his identity through the MoC arc). Sam and Dean's relationship is in rehab over this whole season though, and so Dean's role ends up being to convince Amara not to destroy herself—to instead do what Sam and Dean have done and make up and work on improving their relationship.

#writer disk horse #carver #mail #multiseason #season 8 #season 9 #season 10 #season 11 #sams moral compass #deans moral compass #amara #crowley #benny #charlie #family chains

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faerytreealtars · 8 months

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⋆˙⟡♡ What is your Soul Currently Healing? ⋆˙⟡♡

Hello again, Saplings! 🌱 A new PAC today that I hope you enjoy, take a deep breath, and choose whatever images resonate with your soul and heart, Happy reading! ˚ʚ♡ɞ˚

There are some days, perhaps even weeks where everything just feels out of place, you can never quite place your finger on why and no matter how much you rack your brain or journal away the answer seems to always slip through your fingers like grains of sand upon a glistening beach, there is no way to find the grains that belong to you, perhaps you would have more luck finding the needle lost in the haystack.

Its on these days I personally feel our souls are going through major shifts and transformations. It’s a lot of work for a little soul to heal the hurts and mend the holes, nevermind having to function as a human in the everyday as well.

This PAC came to me in the hopes of helping those of you in this energy, to understand and perhaps give your soul more energy and love as they work through the shadows within.

I would love to hear if the message you received resonated with you, so don’t feel afraid to comment, for it makes me so happy to connect with you all! 💕

Song: I have a dream - Abba

Faery-Tale: Cinderella - “A dream is a wish your heart makes when you’re fast asleep...”

[ My Instagram ♡ / Personal Readings ♤ / Faery Masterlist ☆ ]

Pile 1

[Cards: Seven of Chalices, Ten of Pentacles, Eight of Wands, The Empress & King of Pentacles (rx) ]

Dear Pile one, I can sense that your soul is currently healing from a feeling of scarcity as if everything you had would disappear someday if you didn't keep a tight almost suffocating hold on it, this may have been expressed through control issues or disharmony with money (impulse buying or not spending at all) the good news is your soul is beginning to transmute this toxic energy into something fresh, for those who still feel stuck in this energy I would recommend creating lists of needs vs wants, begin to see money as more than just a tool, it is full of energy just as we are and that energy is a blank slate so project goodness on to it - see that they can bring you joy & actually take a long time to appreciate that joy, don't rely on quick adrenaline rushes to fool you into a sense of comfort. Hope all this helps!

Oracle: Peace

Even when the sky seems stormy, there will be moments of peace. Set your heart toward finding them. Always follow that stray butterfly just to see where it will lead you. A moment of reflection is what is called for at this time. If someone or some situation has riled you up to the point of not seeing clearly, it's time to not just smell the roses but to actively seek them out. By doing this, you will create a small where you can regain control of your thoughts and emotions. Peace may not last forever in our harried world, but take a lesson from this card. There is always time to fuss and bother with all the many things we have to do. But only you can carve out those mind-easing moments of peaceful contemplation. When this card appears to you ask yourself "How do I Invite more peace into my life"

Pile 2

[Cards: Two of Swords, Three of wands, Fortitude/Strength, The Tower, Queen of Wands & Eight of Swords]

Dear Pile Two,

I can sense that the energy you are currently tiring to shift revolves around feeling trapped and helpless, perhaps others have always taken control over your life leaving you no space to speak or pushing identities you know didn't fit you upon you leaving you feeling confused and out of touch with your own soul. It may even be the case where you have felt forced to mask your true self in efforts to fit and be safe around others. Your soul is tired and weary of acting like a puppet on a stage, it is time to change. Spirit is giving you the strength to tackle the challenges ahead & there will be a lot, don't be afraid to say No or step outside "Your Labels" and explore something new. Let yourself have fun & dabble in your own creativity as you make your way down this thrilling path of self-discovery!

Oracle: Offer

Our two friends have taken a moment to meet under the full moon. The soft glow lights up the forest. There is an ambiance of quiet that allows our Gentle Creature to be fully engaged in accepting the gift his young friend has offered. It may be a handful of random green things to someone else but to her, it is something she chose with great care, Her friend understands that. The gift for them is not what is in their hands but what is in the heart of the small one looking up at them. They are grateful for one another. honoring one another with their full attention is another gift. Have you given this to another recently? The present is here. Focus on the air around you and smell the scents. see the sights. Hear the sounds. If you offer yourself up to each moment as a gift, you will learn the beauty of being present in the moment - perhaps it is time to spend time on someone who needs undivided attention.

Pile 3

[Cards: Four of wands, Seven of Swords, The Hermit, King of Pentacles & The Star]

Dear ones,

I could feel your heartbreak as soon as I tapped into your energy & then the cards only further confirmed my intuition. Someone was disloyal to you, tricked & deceived you in some manner. I am sorry you had to go through that but am happy to feel you are strong enough to carry on. Even on days, you feel like hiding away you keep on fighting and for this tremendous capacity of hope you exude into the world, you will surely be blessed. Just remember its okay to feel & acknowledge the heavy emotions, we cannot transmute or alchemize them if we keep them hidden in a bottle. Still, you have done yourself so proud!

Oracle: Guide

Our Gentle Creature waits patiently holding the lantern aloft. Their job is to guide others through the foggy night. It may sometimes be a lonely job to serve as the light carrier, but it is a necessity that cannot be shirked. The hardest part of being a guide is that jot all will see or appreciate the illumination for what it is. With this card, you are being asked to be a guide or to answer the call. One way or another your journey is being redirected. Are you heading into the fog ignoring the sparkling flame? This is a time to really dig into your inner self. It can be that both these things are important after all, it is a poor guide who cannot be led. W ouldn't it be sad if this gentle creature were left to hold the lamp? Surely there is someone maybe you who can help them by carrying that sweet yellow star for a while? We all need to both guide and to be guided.

I do so hope this reading brought comfort to your soul and a little more understanding to your subconscious. Take each day as it comes and try to look for at least one silver lining in the everyday.

~Much love, Fae🔮🧚🏻‍♀

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seenthisepisode · 1 year

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hi! I saw your post about the why episode title change why 11 scenes cut why lamp etc etc and I know some of it but not all, and I was hoping you could elaborate on spngate— if it’s not too much trouble— or point me in a direction where I can join you in the spn gate?

I feel ashamed for HOW LONG i let this ask just rot in my askbox (it's from january, apparently, now it's april. i thought maybe two weeks passed but NO. it was months. ANON I AM SO SO SO SO SORRY. I LOVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART) but now with the power of this url and the wine i am currently sipping, let me give you the best, most thought-out answer that i possibly can.

I don't know how long you've been following/watching spn, so I won't get into real deep iceberg theories that go back to season 8 and jeremy carver, for the purpose of this essay answer I'll just stick to the year anno domini 2020, and will try to do my best to tell you what happened.

Okay, maybe 2019. So, in june 2019, when the first scripts and drafts for s15 are presented, these things happen: 1. apparently, according to Berens, the confession scene is the first thing that was written for season 15. 2. Jensen Ackles is sat down and asked if he would be okay with this. (question is asked: why would they ask jensen if all he does in this scene is look at cas, he doesn't say anything, he does not confess, it changes nothing about his character, etc.; if you put the real tjlc tinfoil hat on you'd ask hey , maybe they asked him if precisely that is okay, if he is okay with the fact dean is practically silenced here but that's Deep) 3. Jensen apparently is okay with that, because it happens.

also this thing happens around the same time: 1. they write the ending for the brothers, and no matter what version of the finale we're talking about, Dean dies 2. Jensen Ackles is Not Okay with this. he calls Kripke who then, in a call and/or email assures him it's a good ending (Jensen says that) and also very quickly after that Jensen is announced to play Soldier Boy in Kripke's The Boys. make of that what you want

They film, blah blah, march 2020, covid happens, they stop production right after they film the confession. Last episode to air is 15x13, last episode they film is 15x18, they almost have a plane crush when flying to vegas con, and then, a loooong break until august 2020. Now, from what we know, there were two versions of the finale - the pre-covid finale they were supposed to film if the filming schedule wasn't interrupted, and the finale that happened.

What was supposed to be in the Original Finale/Pre-Covid Finale, we still don't know exactly, but from what the cast said, there was supposed to be a big cast reunion, Harvelle's Roadhouse in Heaven, Kansas Band (why are they dead?) playing there after Dean gets there and so on.

Anyway. July 2020. Misha does a livestream with Michael Sheen (the SuperGood campaign) where he says he is going back to filming the last two episodes in a few weeks. he said it LIVE. it's on youtube. people analyze the background from Misha's livestreams and photos and conclude he is in Vacouver, where spn is filmed. He also says that he is going back filming in a few interviews. Also here.

August 2020. They go back to filming in august 2020 to film 15x19 and 15x20.

August 20th, 2020, Misha's birthday.

I wasn't on set TODAY. so casual. of all days i wasn't there today.

August 24th, 2020, day 6/8 of filming 15x19, Angel with a Shotgun is hash tag Song of The Day while filming scenes of 15x19 (scene 28, 31).

September 4th, 2020. ALL THEY FILM, for the whole DAY, is one scene. They usually film a few. They film one. Song of the day? The Night We Met.

Somewhere before the episodes starts to air again, Dabb says only 30% of the audience will like the finale. Anyway, everyone concludes, Misha is filming, destiel is more or less going canon, but everyone including bibros is sure Misha is filming and will be there for the finale.

Originally, "Despair" was called "The Truth".

Finale airs.

It feels shorter (apparently it's not) but it does have an additional ad break. For Walker. But it feels shorter because of the "carry on my wayward son" cover montage that lasts too long and later it's discovered thanks to scripts that dropped that there are ELEVEN scenes that were filmed,, but didn't make it to the episode. The script that drops is also very telling, where scenes are just [OMMITTED]. It was explained that they wanted to have actor there but they didn't want actors to quarantine for two weeks to film one or two scenes BUT then that's exactly what they did with Jim Beaver lmao.

So yeah. I also remember Misha at a con (DarkLight?) where, after asked about the original ending, he answers that the original ending was something that would be better explored in fanfiction anyway. Theory rises he filmed and was cut off the episode without his or Jensen's knowledge because Misha sat down his kids to watch the spn finale (which was the first episode they were supposed to watch ever, why would he do that if he's not there?) and then, CW SPN twitter posts a goodbye video that has everyone from the cast and their mother BUT MISHA AND JENSEN ARE NOT THERE. Jensens sexy silence starts.

THEN THE WILDEST THING HAPPENS.

November 25th, the Spanish Dub. 15x18 drops in Brazil and Dean says "and i you" to Cas, after he confesses. No "don't do this cas" but "and i you". Tumblr stops working for two hours, people on discords are screaming, no one knows whats happening, someone claims Jensen was called in September 2020 to record some adlibs? To record the muffled sobs Dean does while on the floor. Theory is supported by the fact that in the Bazil version? When Dean sits on the floor? The sound that plays are birds. Chirping birds. Sounds don't match, what was Dean saying while crying on the floor, question arises.

Everyone decides there was a Rogue Translator who managed to hide from The CW Sniper (who is the reason actors just dont tell us everything) and translated some kind of Original Script. Voice Actors are invited to a podcast where they debunk this saying that it was added because the translator felt this was the right response or something like that. Anyway they debunk the fact that there existed, at any time, a version of a script, that maybe was send to them, where Dean says I love you too. This was a wild night, no one slept.

And like. I could make this post longer, but I am planning to, one day, make a huge masterpost with real sources about that because honestly you could write a book about it.

But tl;dr spngate is a theory that misha did film for the last 2 episodes and the changes they made were truly last minute (september 2020), they were going for a canon destiel, possibly human!cas engame, dabb was always on our side, and it's based on stuff like jensen actively hating the ending to the point he made his prequel after 2 years of radio silence, 11 scenes just cut from the finale, misha saying he is going back filming, and people like mark pellegrino saying the last scene he filmed was with alex and misha. also the onion field. why lamp is the theory that cas is represented and symbolized by lamps throughout the show and when dean dances with a Lamp in a drug induced dream instead of, say, some kind of a lady he is actually thinking about cas.

also there are little things like when jensen at an online con before the finale says that oh yes i am wearing a grey flannel but tomorrow? who know it could be blue and green. and we all collectively lost our shit. like when he said he is most excited to "tackle" with cas in season 15. or that "dean has no taste, clearly". WHY WAS YOUR PERMISSION NEEDED JENSEN

there are a lot of things i didn't mention here because i simply can't unflod this whole thing just like that but

but if you understand this picture you might be entitled to financial compensation

#ask #anon #it took me 2 hours to write this #spngate

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1x20 · 1 year

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Why are you a deanbenny hater? 👀

askfasdfljk honestly hater is kind of a strong word (i know i'm the one who said it first but it's mostly hyperbole). however i AM a deanbenny disliker.

mostly this is because i think they deleted benny's most interesting scene: right before dean kills him in 8x19, benny admits that he's drank human blood since coming back from purgatory.

now as you can see even the top comment on that video is "I'm glad they didn't put the part where Benny basically admitted he fed on humans in the show. I'd hate to have to have had Dean deal with that." which is EXACTLY why deleting that scene bothers me so much.

s8 is essentially just one big contest for dean's affection between sam, cas, and benny. cas and benny don't really like each other (see, like, all the purgatory scene), sam and benny don't like each other (sam doesn't like)

now another theme in s8 is that dean actually has... kind of impossible standards? and he WILL do awful things to/for the people he loves. when dean comes back in 8x01, he blames sam for not looking for him even though sam thought he was dead:

DEAN After you looked for me. [SAM says nothing.] Did you look for me, Sam? [SAM looks away.] Good. That's good. Now, we – we... always told each other not to look for each other. That's smart. Good for you. Of course, we always ignored that because of our deep, abiding love for each another, but not this time, right, Sammy?

and then he IMMEDIATELY starts blaming sam for not continuing to hunt (even though this is something dean has also expressed interest in doing multiple times, see 2x20's "why do we have to sacrifice everything, dad? it's [not fair]", for example)

DEAN So you just turned tail on the family business. SAM Nothing says "family" quite like the whole family being dead. DEAN I wasn't dead [He stands up and walks around SAM.] In fact, I was knee-deep in God's armpit killing monsters, which, I thought is what we actually do.

DEAN He was our responsibility. [He tosses the phone at SAM’s chest.] And you couldn't answer the damn phone.

etc etc. this actually feeds into a theme for the rest of carver era which carries over into dabb era, which is that dean expects complete and full devotion to him and his ideals. BUT we're getting ahead of ourselves.

now dean's relationship to benny is actually kind of idealized. in fact in 8x05, dean & sam have this fight:

SAM Listen, Dean, we came here on a dead body. You asked for some time, and now there's another dead body. Are we just going on trust here? DEAN Yes. SAM Okay. Because we've killed for a lot less, and you know how these things turn out for us. DEAN Yes, I do - too well. In fact, every relationship I have ever had has gone to crap at some point. But the one thing I can say about Benny - he has never let me down. SAM Huh. Well, good on you, Dean. Must feel great finally finding someone you can trust after all these years.

this IS in fact a load of crap. benny is barely even around for him & dean to have disagreements. the only extended period of time they spend around each other is in purgatory, but crucially dean enjoys purgatory because there are no consequences. purgatory is an obligation & consequence free place: he can be as violent (or gay) as he wants without it mattering. and that's why benny HAS to leave as soon as they hit the ground running in 8x01, because benny can't even stick around to have consequences.

as such, dean and benny BARELY spend any real time together anyway: dean could've said the EXACT same thing about cas in s5 to sam, but he was forced to confront that cas was a real person in s6 and that's when his relationship with cas immediately started breaking down.

so when people take "benny has never let me down" as a sort of romantic statement about benny, that kinda bothers me. to me that line indicates the total devotion dean needs to consider you a good person & the unreasonable standards he sets. PLUS it plays into sam's monsterhood as expressed in this gifset: people who are monsters are NOT monsters to dean as long as he loves them - but as soon as they do something he doesn't like or that love runs out? they become monsters again.

now benny ends up winning the battle for dean's affection because he is, in essence, the perfect dean companion. thinks he's cool, listens to whatever he says, is totally devoted to him to the point of letting dean kill him. this is INTENSELY boring to me. why bring up these issues dean's having if you're just gonna play into them and not do anything with it?

and by deleting the scene where benny admits to drinking human blood, you reframe the whole deanbenny relationship. instead of the point of deanbenny being "dean has control issues, dean expects total devotion from his friends & family, dean's relationships are all intensely dysfunctional," it turns into "sam & cas should simply do whatever dean says all the time and dean would like them more."

and even though i'm a deangirl, i REALLY hate that.

#ice.txt #dean

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torturedpoetemotions · 1 year

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Actually @mybrainproblems you have me reaching for my redacted-omitted-gunshots finale conspiracist tinhat again now because like. I look at all of Dabb's previous work and I look at 15x20 and I just think. Like. WHAT could possibly incentivize any writer, any storyteller, whether character or plot driven, to write an ending THAT horribly bad on every level for a show and character they put over a decade of work into??? And then I started thinking...what could possibly make ME do that? Is there anything?

And the first answer was no, but then the second answer was "someone else planning to do something even worse."

With everything we now KNOW is true about network interference and censorship of SPN basically from season 6 onward, with all those omitted script sections, with all the BTS details that were never, ever explained, and with the conflicting (but consistently so) reports from various actors and writers of different endings that got shifted/changed...I will never believe that any of the SPN writers, least of all Andrew "domesticate that masculine power fantasy" Dabb, actually liked or wanted that ending or thought it was in any way good. It's giving "mercy kill my child before the invading forces capture us" so fucking hard.

#supernatural #andrew dabb #fuck the finale

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astudyinfreewill · 4 months

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yes yes widower arc for sure. yes yes divorce arc. mixtape scene etc etc. but can we admit r/supernatural is making some points here with the whole ‘jack replacing chuck as a stand-in for dabb replacing kripke and the show actually suffering for it’

like. i know this is a relatively unpopular opinion but i DO agree later seasons were taken over by jack and i simply don’t care much for him. yes haha born yesterday trope baby boy so cute. ok. but are you telling me he’s an interesting CHARACTER?

i promise you the solution to ‘god is not answering your prayers and life is filled with unfair suffering’ is not ‘actually you just need a better god!’. like that HAS to be the opposite of a nuanced, interesting take, but that’s what the later seasons were peddling.

we went from ‘god is a selfish, absent, flawed father who doesn’t really know what he’s doing and is not all that invested in his creation’ (compelling! three-dimensional! humanising the divine!) to ‘Old Bad God is a cartoonishly evil villain who wants to destroy the multiverse bc he’s throwing a tantrum but luckily we have New Good God who is rosy-cheeked and innocent and will save us all!’* in fact he is SO Good and Pure and Innocent that everyone else is a big old meanie by comparison, including characters who have been established for a decade as protective of children and innocent people!!!

*and the thing is it doesn’t even really work btw. it still is largely down to the humans around him. and then he becomes god and nonsensical tragedy immediately strikes - to the point that 3 years later we’re all still here theorising that Chuck Must Have Won because there was no way that could have been a good ending.

#and before you hit me with the ‘but what about CAS being a DAD!!!’ argument. is claire novak a JOKE to you?#spn #meta #dabb critical #not a kripke era or gamble era or carver era truther but a secret fourth thing (spn was only good until season 8 when bed edlund left)#just casually starting fires on this sunday morning but listen. jack’s whole concept as a character is incredibly whack #‘son of lucifer and a pro-life republican aide becomes most important little meow meow while every character around him becomes caricature’#nah man. nah. miss me with that shit i don’t care that he has big blue uwu eyes

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mlobsters · 9 months

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supernatural s7e22 there will be blood (w. andrew dabb, daniel loflin)

spoiler alert, dean fogg's in this one. love his voice! periodic reminder i could not care less about the leviathan plotline. it's so cartoonish and dull

DEAN Okay, man, I have read this more times than the Playboy I found in Dad's duffel. SAM Anna Nicole? DEAN Anna Nicole. Oh, the good – they die young, huh?

i shared part of her name and used to get jokes about her regularly. there's an interesting (and very sad) documentary on netflix about her called "anna nicole smith: you don't know me". and one of the best documentaries i've watched recently i'd recommend even more, about pamela anderson - called "pamela, a love story".

genuinely happy to see crowley. so many side characters are kind of... stiff or over the top. he's the correct amount of top

silly pie focused bickering

DEAN Yeah, Sam, look around. It's friggin' Woodstock. Everybody's hopped up on the brown acid. We don't need the song and dance. Give him a little prick.

i'm so used to Emotional Trauma for the last few episodes of a season i'm not sure what to do with this goofy shit

GLORIA Yesterday I introduced you to this rising star in American business. In this hour, we'll go behind the scenes and answer the question everyone's been asking for months – what makes Dick so hard to beat?

they cannot resist the dick jokes my god

EMILY You were gonna hurt my daddy.

okay.

the magicians s1e13 have you brought me little cakes (w. sera gamble btw & john mcnamara & david reed) - laci j mailey as fen

so she was fen in s1 finale but the role was recast to brittany curran for the remainder of the show

DEAN Well, the creep gets creepier.

fucking seriously. not to mention this kid looks like a bit like young sam/colin ford

EDGAR I smell Sam and Dean Winchester.

kinky

SAM But, Dean... We gave up all our Vamptonite.

is dean dreaming, what is happening lol

DEAN I think any way you slice it, you got Pac Man and True Blood in the same room and that's bad news.

i have a lot of fondness for true blood, but anyway the thought that true blood the show exists in the universe where vampires do exist, it's just tickling me at the moment

well. cute they wrote in the little rescuing the young sam-esque kid. again appreciating the alpha vampire's actor, rick worthy, who is also great on the magicians and wishing he could be in a more regular role than some of the other people on this show :p

wonder if the season finale can make me feel anything.

#supernatural #spnwatch #spn 7x22 #andrew dabb #daniel loflin #rick worthy #spnhiky #hiky #laci j mailey #the magicians

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canonicallysoulmates · 1 year

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Jared Saturday Solo Panel JIB11

We start with a fan letting him know that they love the music on Walker (same!) and that they like this vers more than the original Walker, Texas Ranger. Jared says thank you, that he's not the person who picks the music for the show but thank you in their behalf, and that it was an interesting kind of transition from Sam to Walker that he had many months during the pandemic because when Jensen and he were send home from Van for the pandemic he already knew basically the entire last episode and a half which they had left to film of SPN and so he was able to work for like 5 months trying to figure out the character of Cordell Walker. He also says that a lot of what he does on Walker he wouldn't have been comfortable doing before working with Jensen (💕). That seeing Jensen kind of have fun with scenes and kinda make it his own, he really kinda took notes of that subconsciously and now he's just having a good time and he hopes he gets to keep doing it. x

Is there any difference between how he gets into the role of Walker and how he used to get into the role of Sam? Logistically, no. He has an idea of who Cordell Walker is and he had a pretty decent idea of who Sam is, he feels like in a couple of days time he could easily get back into Sam that he could do Sam right now. His method is kind of the same, it's remained the same since he was the og Dean on Gilmore Girls, but he just kinda reads it, lets it swim around and then he gets to set and throws it all away and sees what works. So in general he'll read a script many times in a row and then on the day he's filming those scenes he'll just work on those scenes, and then somedays he'll get to set and they're supposed to shoot a scene where they're walking down the street and in your head you'll like plan it out but then you get to the location where you're filming and you realize that you're not walking that far- that he feels like if we were to grab the script for any of the Walker episodes and then watch the episode there's a lot of words and lines that we wouldn't see. That they just kinda bob and weave and flow so that's been really nice to do but otherwise it's been very similar. x

If Sam had died what would have been his goodbye speech to Dean?

He thinks Sam's speech to Dean would have been a combination of what he said to Dean in Fresh Blood, what he said to him in Sacrifice, and what he said to him in Prophet and Loss kind of a combination of those three but he thinks Sam would have also said to Dean, even if Sam was the one who was gonna bleed out and die, he would have said "it's okay, you can go". He thinks Sam knew, and might know again, that Dean wouldn't have lived a long life without him, in his opinion, he thinks Dean was around keeping his brother safe and Dean knew that he wanted to be there for Sam and he also knew that Sam had something else other than hunting that he was destined to do. He shares that when he, Jeremy Carver, Bob Singer, and Jensen sat down together before s15 and talked about the finale in his head Sam was going to be the one to die. That that's it's own tragedy where Dean brought his brother back to hunt and be part of the life, and he thought it would be so interesting to see Dean have to cope with the idea that Sam died because Dean brought him back into the life. When he says this the audience reacts and sadly goes awww and he sees he wants to see it, that maybe we will. He thinks Sam would have tried to make sure "hey dude I know you've been here for me sacrificed a lot for me when you need to go just go i'll be waiting for you" 😭

Real quick, some of you will have noticed the Jeremy Carver mention. That's not a mistake on my part! That's what Jared said. Can't blame him, Carver wasn't perfect but I too wish it had been him with us at the end instead of Dabb. x

Any plans to make Walker and Walker Independence available on tv outside of the US? The short answer is hell yes, the shorter answer is he has zero votes on that executive producer or not. He would love for it to be available everywhere he thinks Windy is such a beautiful show and he's obviously so proud of Walker and he's done so much work on it, he says he actually tried the previous night when he got back from dinner to re-watch the latest episodes cause his body was at like 2pm Texas time and he had watched the eps live but it was in the airport lounge in Atlanta, but it wouldn't let him watch it cause he's in Italy. Get a VPN my boy!

That if he knew who to call he would call them, write them a long letter. x

If Sam and Dean were to go completely solo hunting during the course of SPN who would make it closest to s15? Dean was more run and gun style, Sam was more let me try and research and figure out the best way to approach this style, and Sam had to be possessed by Meg, be possessed by Lucifer, by Gadreel/Ezekiel. And Dean got killed by rebar that didn't move. 😂 Sam. x

What was the hardest emotional scene for him to shoot on Walker?

He thinks it was s1 episode 9 the flashback of Captain James pulling back the sheet off of dead Emily. Steve Robin who directed it wouldn't let him see G once her makeup was done and so he made the whole crew get quiet and they had like a minimal skeleton crew they call it, so the first time Jared saw G was that first take and Coby Bell broke and Odette Annabelle broke down in tears, and he was a wreck. That was hard, that it sucked and it was tough. Sure, I believe you buddy.....🤨 x

If he was a professional wrestler what would be his ring name?

He starts to answer Moose but there's actually already a professional wrestler called that! When the fan informs him of this he says 'fuck him' 😂 And when the fan asks if he thinks he could beat him in a fight that this wrestler is a pretty big dude (I looked him up out of curiosity he is big) he says "did you not just hear? I beat Lucifer and God" 😂 There are some Polish fans in the crowd so he asks him how you say Moose in Polish, and then how to say killer in Polish and that's what he goes with; I don't know nearly enough about the Polish language to even attempt to write those two words so y'all are just gonna have to watch the moment.

edit: Shoutout to @marriedchesters for the help with the Polish! Moose is łoś and killer is zabójca.

There's a second part to this question and it's what would be his entrance song. He says before he tore his knee up he was kind of getting back into doing back work and stuff and there's a song from Deadpool, which he confesses he has never seen, but the song Welcome to the Party would be his entrance song. That would make a great entrance song! x

When he found out Sam would kill Rowena was he hoping it'd be the same way he killed Madison? Basically hooking up with her before having to kill her.

Jared says anybody who has had the pleasure of meeting Ruthie loves her, he certainly loves and adores her both as a human being and as a fellow actor so when he read that script that was a though one, and they were at the time in the series when they were kind killing people off and saying goodbye to them and it all sucked. He feels it was appropriately intimate, he thinks it was the right way to do it cause it felt like a connection and he wouldn't have written it any other way. x

As a tallish guy, out of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs which of the dwarfs would he be and which would Sam be? He'd be Dopey, and Sam would be Grumpy. x

In the episode Bad Day at Black Rock, there's a scene where Sam falls down, did Jared really hurt his knees when he did that scene? The short answer is no, he didn't hurt his knees. The long answer is there was a stunt pad out of camera, and if you watch the shot you can tell where it is cause it was really big. x

Did they know why Poughkeepsie was such an important word to Sam and Dean, or did they come up with a reason or backstory in their head? It originally came from Bob Singer, and then the second time when he says Poughkeepsie to Dean it was not in the script but he thought it would be a cool thing to add. He says the nerd in him thought it would be the perfect time to close the loop and that a lot of the stuff he does now on Walker and Windy as a producer but also even during SPN, some of the things he likes doing, like the bits during the barn scene of "i cant do this alone" "yes you can""well i don't want to" that was not scripted it was just something he wanted to add, it was a great way to close the circle. He doesn't love acting what he loves is storytelling and stories so he thinks as somebody who enjoyes stories that just seems like pieces of the puzle that final feeling like when you're figuring out where the last pieces of a puzzle go. He loves that feeling and his middle child, Shep, is the same way with Legos or puzzles he'll spend days or weeks buidling this puzzle and then he'll want them to see it and then he'll break it down and Jared was the same way as a child and he continues to be like that he wants to figure it out and then do something else. x

If he were to be on The Boys would he be a part of the boys or the Seven and would he kick Soldier Boy's ass or help him? He doesn't know if he would want to fight Soldier Boy he was mean. He and Kripke have talked a little bit about how he could do it but right now it's not practical logistically. He'd love to be on the show, he'd have to call his mom and tell her not to watch, but he'd love to do it and he thinks it would be fun to link up with Soldier Boy and kind of solve something together. He'd have to be one of the sups. The number of things that I would be willing to do to make this happen!!! x

Who wears the Gucci jacket best? He'd say it's him. He doesn't believe he's ever owned a Gucci jacket and he doesn't know what took him so long. x

How hard was it for him to not draw from Sam when shooting the cage scenes in the beginning of this season of Walker? The thought absolutely crossed his mind. In a weird way he feels like Cordell Walker almost has a bit more of a fuck you attitude than Sam, Walker has a bit of Dean in him of like bring it where as Sam was very much almost academic. Sam is defiant but he's thinking all along about what would be the intelligent way to get out of there, Cordell is a bit more 'well, I guess this is it' but then they bring Liam into the cage, pretty similar to Dean and Sam in the cage- on a personal note that cage was real metal. Often when you see cages it's a lot of firm styrofoam that has been made to look like old iron but this was just iron and concrete and it sucked, and since he was wearing shorts and a thin shirt he couldn't wear pads and that's when he tore his ACL. x

This is so cool! The next fan used to be a handler for Chuck Norris and she told him how well Walker was doing and he asked her to pass along the message that he was so proud! Jared shares that he was invited once to be a part of a con that Chuck Norris was attending but he was out of town so he's still never met the guy. That it's fun to follow in footsteps but also pave your own way so that means a lot. x

What kind of plotlines would he like to see happen in an SPN reboot?There are a lot in his head. He thinks he has expressed how much he would love to that sometime but he feels so protective of what he and Jensen did with SPN and those characters that he feels like he and Jensen would need to have the heaviest hands in the storylines. They never did, they were never producers on SPN, much less EP's. They behaved like producers, however, he really feels like he has some strong toughts on the best way to do it and they have talked about it and shared ideas. He wouldn't want it to be a movie, he would want it to be a 6 to 8 ep, maybe hour and a half, reboot. And he doesn't think that it would be complete without C (yes, it would be) and without Jack, and so many of the beloved characters they had especially towards the end where it would more sense to jump back in. x

What's a lesson he's gotten from a movie that's important to him? The fan mentioned the Lion King and it makes him think about how he wrote his senior graduation English paper on the Lion King, working in Joseph Campbell's Hero's, Myths, and Legends and all the archetypes, and then got to portray a lot of those with SPN.

His senior advanced English placement paper was comparing the Lion King and the Natural with Robert Redford, and talking about the different use of archetypes and the different kind of genres and so he thinks he really loves the classic archetypes in stories, the classic tropes and different takes on them and so he finds himself drawn to stories that have an inherent juxtaposition like the friendly beast, the chewbacca that's scary or the Timon and Pumba that are strange. He thinks he's learned from some of those movies and from some kids movies; he thinks kids movies are very simplistic at their core because they deal with things- and he imagines that people who create and produce kids movies and kid tv shows they understand that certain storylines work like the bully who ends up being a nice guy, or the nerd that ends up being the hero, he thinks humans are all drawn to those tropes so he has learned a lot but now he has to go back and watch and make some notes. x

What aspect of Sam's personality was hardest to act? A lot of Sam came pretty naturally to him and he thinks that's a credit to their writers, he can't tell how many times in the final like 10 seasons of SPN it'd have Sam and Dean show up to a person's house and be like 'hey we wanna ask you about your deceased person' and Sam does his puppy dog eyes but he thinks that's kind of who he is; he thinks it was Sam's version of comedy because he doesn't think Sam was a really funny guy, he just had some funny moments. He thinks Cordell Walker's version of comedy is very similar to his but he thinks Sam's version of comedy was difficult for him to find and maybe that was correct because he doesn't think Sam thought of himself as a funny person kinda more just funny in the moment. So that's probably it. And he once again mentions how nerve racking French Mistake was for him due to the comedy. x

Final question! What his favorite thing about Walker's personality and about Sam's personality? His favorite about Sam's personality was his long game mentality, he kinda helped teach Jared patience. He won't claim he's the most patient person on the planet, he thinks he's allright but Sam always wanted to do things right, to do things the correct way and he was willing to put in the work before attempting so that he wouldn't mess up. His favorite part of Cordell's personality is his sense of humor. He's very similar to himself, he's kind of a goofball and doesn't take himself seriously. Not that Sam took himself seriously, he was dealing with much more serious situations but he loves how Cordell doesn't seem to take himself seriously that it's been fun and it's been a lesson in itself. x

Jared's Saturday Solo Panel JIB11

#jared padalecki #sort of #anti jared x genevieve #anti castiel #mine #noniwtv

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mrcowboydeanwinchester · 21 days

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everyone saying bela on that poll i see you but she should've come back as a demon THAT is the fun sexy bela we deserve to see ("you could've saved me and you chose not to, this is what you get, etc") bringing jo back to dabb era spn is the only correct answer amen

#i love charlie but we simply seen a lot of her. you know who we didn't see enough of?#JOANNA BETH HARVELLE #spn women #ola.txt

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blacknidstang · 6 months

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9 and 18 for the spn ask game!

Heya there. I answered 9 here

Off to 18) when did supernatural start declining in quality

My god what a question!

I think the realest answer for me is that it happened after s5 bc their long term plot was over and the story was forced to continue instead of going out with a bang.

BUT, rewatching s6 i cannot deny just how deeply i enjoyed it. Yes the overall plot is messy as hell and i can barely remember the villains or the story but so much that goes on with Sam &Dean & Cas & the rest was just makes me respect and love Sera Gamble (the show runner for 6 &7). It all can be very entertaining and fascinating at times. But already in s7, even if there are still parts i love crazy, as a whole i could see how badly it's starting to fall apart.

Now with start of s8 with Jeremy Carver as show runner one of my truly biggest issues starts to grow exponentially and it's the ridiculously convoluted lord and heaven and hell drama. Bc even with apocalypse so close back kn Kripke era, there was something sooo intimate about the whole thing. The bigger plot was there TO SERVE THE CHARACTERS AND THEIR DYNAMIC. Jeremy's era (8-11) get so so lost in its own ambitious world building and i feel he is one of those nerd with deep love for fantasy lore and that just did not work in my opinion. The strength of this show was the intimacy of it and it starts to get lost already in s7 and gets real worse here. But seasons 8 to 10 give certain arcs and really got me go "holy shit man i'm not gonna be the same person after this".

But there came s11 and toward the end i could barely enjoy majority of it, i think i fast forwarded through last couple of episodes there and then Dabb era comes (s12-15) and it's not the start of the decline, it's a jump dive into deep dark pit of travesty and foulness.

Gosh thank you for giving me opportunity to ramble so much <3

Spn discourse asks

#asks #spn

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reddieandwaiting87 · 2 years

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Top 5 most cringeworthy Dean scenes?

Sorry for the late answer anon but you sent me so many of these and I don't wanna answer them all in one go.

Top 5 most cringeworthy Dean scene's.

1.) Number one has to be that god awful wire *fight* scene in the S13 finale. Singer and Dabb (pretty sure Jensen and Mark.P HATED that scene and didn't wanna do it.) Need to learn less is more and when you have a shoe string budget. Or no clue what your doing then don't do it. Some people where pissed Sam didn't get to kill Lucifer (big deal the bastard came back AGAIN cause Singer and Dabb are fucking idiots.) But I for one was more then happy for Sam to take a back seat.

Tried to find a gift of it but guess nobody wants that cringe scene to be remembered.

2.) Micheal!Dean and his peaky blinders outfit. God that freeze frame at the end of S13 so cringe. OK so not technically Dean but he was still in Dean's body. Just any scene he was in just so cringeworthy. Though his worst scene was with botox Danneel. (Jensen getting the main story line that season and his bimbo wife being given a part. Maybe Misha wasn't the only Singer kiss ass? Or Dabb and Singer playing favourites.) Two bits of wood trying to act so interesting.

3.) That *look at me bitch.* scene from S10 with Mark of Lame Dean fighting a vamp. I guess it's meant to be a badass scene and wow look Dean's so out of control. But Jensen's delivery of the line and the line itself just comes across as try hard and lame. The first time I saw that scene I rolled my eyes so hard. The ONLY good thing Mark of Lame Dean did was punch that Mary-sue Charlie.

I could watch this part all day. :3

4.) OK for this one it's not just one scene but more a thing they seemed to do with Dean and they thought it was *funny* and not just gross. Dean loves food nothing wrong with that. BUT why in later seasons did this grown ass man suddenly not be able to eat without food falling out of his mouth or without his mouth hanging open for all to see? Anytime Dean was eating I nearly had to look away. It wasn't funny it was cringe.

5.) Now this scene I think was in S13 or S14. I actual think it's from the same episode the gift above is from. God I miss the days when I actual remembered spn episodes instead of trying to forget them. ANYWAY back to the point. Sam and Dean are in a college and while Sam is busy working. Dean is too busy looking at all the girls around him. Now I'm not going to be like a Destiel twat during this scene and cry (like they did) how Dean is too old for them. Cause while that might be true. They just don't like to be reminded Dean likes WOMEN. But then they have Dean walking around while saying he can't control himself/is about to lose it etc etc cause he has all these women around him just comes across as pure creep. It was just too much.

That was another fun ask anon. Thanx again.

I will get to the others soon too.

Edit

Thanx @youdontcallmesammy

How could I forget the god awful cringe of this moment. This gets a special mention for ruining what was a good episode

#ask games #games #anti-Jensen #anti-Danneel #anti-Dean

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incarnateirony · 2 years

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I know I shouldn't, but I'm really curious about the bullshit this guy Pat says and I would like to have a look at his twitter, what is his twitter account? You talk about him often but many times I don't get it because it's all out of context to me (like your last post with the picture from TW trailer, what happens there?)

shooting an answer before work. Pat uses some variant Of TeamFreeWillTwoPointO on every platform like tfwtwopointo etc. Don't let the name fool you, it fooled many for years, he's a jared stan that does everything he can to minimize and stomp down jensen and other successes and greatly inflate and dramatize Jared's successes. It's a mix of propaganda account and wanna-be leaker

Things Pat has argued with me on saying "his sources" told him:

My statement about the ending: order of death, roadhouse reunion, etc. Pat mocked this not coming true. Radio silence when Dabb clarified the original ending, which Pat never had access to, only the late omitted one. I'd say that was more than his version where he was talking about "a battle for Dean's soul" I sent someone to correct him on that he never picked up on.

THAT anything was omitted. He rabidly denied it and acted like it was in tact, not WANTING to admit a considerably modified finale. Then, the script came. This is why he worked so hard WITH. KELIOS. AND. CO. to try to get the script to have control of it. They spent 5K, we spent 25, and ultimately, well. You know. [Omitted.]

I wrote a post about Jensen having a hard time letting go and moving on. Many posts, actually. The first came the December after the finale, when I "speculated", attached to that phrase, that he was working on something to help his character resolution--the Mary and John details didn't come for several more months as the decided/accepted/inked pitch/deal. Roughly 2 months before the Deadline leak and mantrum day. And, for many months, I reminded people that Jensen had a hard time Letting Go and Moving On in associated contexts I was trying to inform people on. Pat went out of his way to argue with this and call me wrong and projecting, and then Jensen used the phrases verbatim, almost like I might have been quoting him BTS or something IDK!!! Either way, he brushed that under the rug.

I released the pilot script. Pat screamed up and down that his sources said it was fake, totes real CM sources. I know who, that person tried to argue with me too. I knew they were wrong, cuz they couldn't even begin to wrap their heads around why I knew they were wrong. Radio silence since filming and the trailer. Hell my *pinned post* was an effort of explaining like they were five what kind of script it was and what, if any, changes happened. And I mean, give it a skim. Look at filming and the trailer. Tada.

His own friend rings were among the people screaming for SEASONS, until the bitter, awakening end, that Berens had no Destiel intention, or even claimed he supported Wincest, because they had no idea of all the BTS intel about the man or his open secrets of conversations abroad on favorites and intent. He has no concept who anyone is, who they know and are close with, or what these social crossengagements come from. They didn't LIKE the idea that Berens was gunning for Destiel all along, and they denied it, and Pat amplified it. And [gestures at everything] now they're real pressed realizing either he's back, or in the very least, he's boning the showrunner, and might have a teensy little bit of consulting influence.

Now he's out here pitching arguments nobody did. People are out here pointing out the Mise en Scene similarity to purgatory, from gamma lighting to afterlife elements to dean's wardrobe but the goddamn SECOND Pat realized that mise en scene and wardrobe directly anchored Dean to 15.04 and 15.09 specifically, the latter as afterlife fodder, he's losing his mind. "IT'S NOT HAPPENING IN PURGATORY STUPIDS" no shit sherlock we're talking about concepts, story vibes and mise en scene do you fucking understand what this is in your lil peanut brain, pat.

He loves to wave MY SOURCES MY SOURCES MY SOURCES then finally one day when he got pressed he cracked and admitted his source was legit "I have a friend in LA" and "my brother's cousin's boyfriend's best friend worked on a show adjacent to misha once" no I'm not fucking kidding, these are this dude's idea of sources. His only better one is one I use as a tertiary intel source because she's just crawled up from fandom, limited contact, limited perspective, limited development insight, and a LOT of other reasons making her intel complicated to parse.

He tries DESPERATELY to echo me, in some futile attempt to pretend "anyone can do what Min does!!" like he tries to spec unannounced actors and stuff and misses the mark EVERY TIME because he does NOT know this industry, he does NOT know how to qualify leads, and he does NOT know how to keep his media muggle thoughts and biases out of coloring in the information he gets.

So yeah. That's Pat.

He's pressed af and looking to swing against the very obvious patterns going on here. IDK why he thinks that'll change the result.

This man is goddamn OBSESSED with arguing with everything I release, and ALWAYS buries it resultingly making an ass out of himself. He wants real, real bad how to figure out how to do what I do or how to have what I have and my god will he throw his daily temper tantrums to display it.

More often than not, Pat's "intel" is a small whisper of accurate information that means very little without context, that he then appends violently wrong opinions all over to the point the original whisper is unintelligible from itself, leading to him putting out giant editorialization and opinion pieces and trying to call them Inside Information. When not a soul that's worth a damn has ever sat down and talked with him. Promise.

I don't know if he's aware he's doing it, but that's his weakness every time. He can't sort out his wants, dreams, dislikes and fan ambitions from when he does get a nublet of information and decides to figure out how that nublet of information fits into his world view, rather than finding accessory information to understand the world that information exists in and how it interacts with, yknow, reality.

Because in a way, it does feel like Him and His have some sort of derealization going on. Like if they argue and do enough backflips and brush enough failures under the rug, that if they argue REAL HARD and wish on their ring of INFINITE WISHES, reality will change the result for them, and I'm sorry, no matter how many dumb posts Pat, Pathyrn or loljackles (don't get me started on the "pre successful actor" that argued against global industry decline and then whipped it out when walker was failing in 18-35, incorrectly) publish, that's not how it works.

None of these folks actually have a building understanding of what IS, just a million things they want to scream it isn't, whether or not it's coherent, related to the information at hand or resonant with common sense resulting. They have NO fuckin spec, much less ACTUAL INFORMATION, on where this shit IS heading, they're just actively pissing themselves day-in-day-out screaming "NO!!!!"

If Pat put in like. Five minutes. Five minutes of not wanting to argue with something he doesn't like. Five minutes of applying, to me even, the same sort of pattern solving he SHOULD be, but never does, with his "info". That if he put together all the posts in all the world that he wiped out embarrassed on, and me being more accurate than his supposed CM source I told was wrong to their face, and all the other information I'm putting out around it ahead of the curve like actors and writers he can't keep up with that like. He could kinda. Figure out what's happening here. And stop embarrassing himself.

But he won't.

Read between the FUCKING lines, pat.

I'm out here leaking shit as far as episode 3 and these ding dongs still can't wrap their heads around the pilot.

So how about you pack this in your pipe and smoke it: the team not only fully intends to address the confession in this property, but are holding open discourse on the when, where, how, considering the potential accordion nature of the show for a few years.

He's gonna call me a liar. I'm gonna not care. Because it's happening.

It's one of the primary arcs that need to be adjusted to the show arcs if there's an accordion. I need everyone that doesn't like this to start wrapping their fucking grey matter around it right now. It doesn't matter if you like it. The people creating it, Jensen included, do, and have it on the priority plot list

I rarely state my info this directly as much as weaved through supposed theories with some public facing receipts. But fuck it. I'm gonna say it outright and it needs to be said.

jensen isn't who you think he is, Pat2 and lolj. Like. I can not emphasize that enough. Jensen. Is not who you little lot think he is. I'm not saying this... blindly or parasocially as some kind of fan. I'm just sitting here saucer eyed that you haven't figured out what's happening here yet. Even just from your outside views looking in pretending you understand it Inside. Like. There's a certain point I gotta raise my brow and ask what psychic block there is to pretend not to see it even public facing. Much LESS things said behind closed doors. Many of which you have argued with my posts on. Such as Let Go and Move on. Which is honestly, something YALL need to do. He's not what you want him to be any more than Berens was what you wanted him to be all those many years you screamed in denial only to get a gay pie to the face

dumb fuck arguing with my posts basically arguing with jensen or thompson the last year as pre-release of later statements from them because they can't cope that they're real people and not narrative toys for Pat to play with on tumblr.

ok?

ok.

cool.

bye.

#mildew #supernatural #the winchesters

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