#characters fandom says are not beyond redemption:
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Friendly reminder that the only reason Genesis is the antagonist of Crisis Core is because Zack is with Shinra. Literally.
Once he's on the run, once Genesis knows that Zack can't help him, he literally brings Hollander to Gongaga for Zack to kill—he tells Zack what Hollander is planning under the guise of it being a joint effort, but once Hollander runs off, Genesis then tells Zack what he intends to do. He talks to him about Loveless and the Lifestream, he shoves a Banora White into his hands when Zack charges at him, and then he leaves. Hollander is left behind—in Zack's hometown, his own turf, so there's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide—allowing Zack to enact poetic justice at last by striking down Angeal's birth father with the very sword that the man who actually raised Angeal died to earn, the sword that honorless Gillian said represented all the honor the Hewleys had left.
And then, finally realizing what's actually going on, Zack sets out to to Banora to save Genesis from dying.
There's no point after Modeoheim that Genesis outright attacks Zack until he's cured at the Light of Doom; there, he calls Zack First Class SOLDIER even though he's not anymore, because Genesis isn't trying to strike down Zack, he's trying to reclaim the right to the only title he's ever had that felt worth anything, and he's trying to take the burden of that title from Zack.
If he wins, Genesis takes the guilt of killing both Angeal and Sephiroth—because he doesn't know Cloud's role, he doesn't know that Zack wasn't the one to strike Sephiroth down, he doesn't even know Cloud's name. Conversely, if he loses, then it's confirmation that Zack is the hero of the story, truly and completely, and that's all right too. If that's how the story ends, that's how it ends. (Minerva intervenes, pulls Genesis from the duel, and he never gets to see the ending. The final act, as in his beloved ancient poem, remains a mystery.)
Genesis is the main antagonist of Crisis Core, but he's never been the bad guy. The entirety of Final Fantasy VII has a single monolith of villainy, and that's always been—and will always be—Shinra. Shinra made the Reactors and dug up Jenova. Shinra made Genesis, Sephiroth, Angeal, and DeepGround. Shinra burned Kalm, Banora, and (partially) Nibelheim. Shinra used any corpse they found or made as research fodder. Shinra killed the last fullblooded Cetra and drove her only daughter to a place where the only way to save the people she loved was through her death. Shinra is the bad guy.
Zack is with Shinra for the majority of the game, and thus the story behaves accordingly. Shinra's enemies are Zack's enemies, because that's the side he's on. Shinra sees Avalanche as enemies, too, but no one ever refers to Barret or Elfe as "irredeemably evil" the way they do Genesis. Barret dresses up his quest for revenge in the guise of saving the planet, but all that matters to him is that anyone even remotely connected to the company suffers the way he's suffered. Elfe allowed Fuhito to experiment on people, to take the corpses of SOLDIER and make undead weapons out of them, violating the sanctity of their final rest and denying them entry to the Lifestream altogether.
"Genesis experimented on his men!" It was a desertion, not an abduction. People who become Copies when they aren't properly enhanced don't get the same enhanced abilities as a First and they degrade very quickly, we see that in Hollander and Lazard—meaning that every single Genesis Copy was one of those SOLDIER Seconds or Thirds that defected with Genesis of their own free will in Wutai after he grew a wing and the world turned upside-down. Genesis' men loved him and they went along willingly.
When Genesis locks himself up in the Light of Doom, his last hope for a cure, he has one last Copy in there with him. When Zack unlocks the gate, he's attacked by one last Copy, even though Genesis has been waiting for him, he's not antagonistic toward him anymore, he hasn't been for a long time.
Genesis took that last Copy, a man with a horrible disease who is definitely too far gone to save, and brought him along to the Light of Doom in the hopes that maybe, maybe things could be set right. When Zack unlocks the gate, that man throws himself at him to protect Genesis, because this is his last chance and Genesis' men love him.
When Zack fights Genesis' Weapon avatar and is attacked by incomplete and twisted ghosts of Genesis Copies, magical inhuman wisps that hold him back while Genesis heals—they're in the Lifestream then, the Light of Doom pulled them both in. Those Copies are literally the ghosts of Genesis' men, unable to diffuse into the Lifestream because of their Jenova infection, fighting to protect him from beyond the grave. Genesis' men love him. They want to save him. They went with him willingly.
"Genesis killed his parents!" The parents who lied to him his entire life in order to keep getting a paycheck from Shinra? The parents that funded his fanclub as a form of marketing for a company that literally wouldn't exist without Genesis' world-changing contribution to food processing as a teenager? Those parents?
Genesis has a little shrine in the Banora Underground where he keeps all his awards and achievements—a little desk with a lantern in an unfinished stone tunnel. They survived the bombing of Banora because they weren't in the house; the chalkboard has sketches of what would clearly become the Banora brand logo, which was presumably made about a decade prior to the Nibelheim Incident, not long after Genesis figured out how to make Banora White juice shelf stable, not long before he left for Midgar to enlist.
Having all the proof of every good thing Genesis has ever done shoved into a tunnel under his hometown, hidden from the public, while his family raked in huge amounts of wealth based on those achievements, indicates quite clearly that Genesis' parents were the exact opposite of good and loving.
But he buried them anyway, didn't he?
Genesis may not be a particularly good person, but he's never been evil, he's never been the bad guy. Genesis was right—more than that, he was justified. His methods were not. He did terrible things. He hurt and killed a lot of people.
But he was only ever the enemy because Shinra said he was. Genesis doesn't need a redemption arc because he already had one, and Minerva herself said he could serve the planet forever to prove it.
#long post#fandom ramble#genesis rhapsodos#crisis core#crisis core reunion#CCFF7R#final fantasy 7#FF7#fandom vent#I am so frustrated#characters fandom says are not beyond redemption:#sephiroth and angeal#and barret and elfe#and tseng and reno and rude and elena#and rufus and reeve and gast and lucrecia#characters fandom says are completely beyond redemption:#genesis specifically for some fucking reason
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here's the thing about matthias: he isn't the honorable, reformed hero some of the fandom seems to see him as.
yes, he was raised by a tight-knit family of comrade soldiers and decides to betray them in the end. of course that took incredible strength. i don't deny that. but we also need to recognize that the drüskelle are not just some rogue cult. they are a core part of the fjerdan government, who is trying to wipe out the grisha because they are seen as dangerous. that's literally just genocide. however indoctrinated someone is, this is something that is evil from every angle, even if the character can't or won't see it.
and look, i love a good redemption arc, but matthias is such a passive actor in his. he falls in love with nina against his will. she changes his attitudes toward grisha because she's beautiful and kind so all grisha can't be bad, right? this a classic example of the trope of separating the "good ones" from the rest, where you cherry-pick specific individuals to point to as exceptions to a group's nature, which is still implied to be evil. you have to do a lot more than fall in love to truly unearth and address the roots of bigotry.
tbh, this is my biggest critique of the books as a whole. i loathe the "love conquers all" trope that pairs together a character from the oppressed group and one from the oppressors, letting the one show the other through the power of love that being bigoted is not nice. it puts all the responsibility on the former to prove their humanity, and gives all the credit to the latter's ability to be persuaded to recognize it. and then it inevitably leads to forgiveness, because the character has "earned" it by changing their views, once again making the victim seem like the villain if they don't absolve the oppressor of their past "mistakes". also, it's incredibly unrealistic for someone to fall in love with a person who actively hates them and considers them sub-human. in real life, people have to work on their bigotry before that happens, not use the relationship as a plot device for character development.
i think the idea of writing a character like matthias is neat. i think portraying someone's struggle to throw off the suffocating, hateful dogma they've been fed all their life is a story we need more of. i think personal growth of this variety should be celebrated, because otherwise people would never change. but i don't think the people, fictional or real, get to do this without facing profound consequences. it is not enough to feel sorry. it is not enough to apologize. it is definitely not enough to fall in love. and i think writing that lets people off the hook like this grossly oversimplifies power and oppression, and ends up being a feel-good way to romanticize people who cause a lot of harm.
a last note: my opinion is 100% influenced by my being bipoc. matthias is a classic aryan supremacist, even if being aryan isn't the thing he's being supremacist about. my gut reaction to that type of character is always going to be mistrust, both because people in real life have given me reason to be mistrustful and because characters like these are often written in a way that makes you sympathize with oppressors. i don't think matthias earns that trust, and i don't see why i owe him my affection as a reader.
#i know i'm usually a 'haha silly little textpost' blog (and don't get me wrong i still am) but this has been on my mind for a while#to be clear i don't think you have to hate him as a character to be a morally upstanding person#and there's nothing inherently wrong about relating to him either#but i do think we as a fandom (a very white one at that) need to acknowledge this#especially because it carries over beyond fiction#stories are powerful and the messages we take from them stick with us even after we close the book#plus even by the end he still is very bigoted#and i realize that he would have had more time to work on himself if he hadn't... y'know#but that's why i like fanon matthias a lot better#he's usually further along in his unlearning process or he actually has to experience that process in a realistically painful way#in fact i really *like* matthias fanon where he actually grapples with his hatred and comes out a better person for it when it's done well#i.e. when he isn't simply forgiven by everyone (especially nina) because he says sowwy#i am thankful to leigh bardugo for creating this universe AND i think she fumbled the matthias redemption arc#nuance!! it exists!!!#ok rant over#also absolutely NO calahan hate on this post#in this house we do not equate characters with their actors#soc#soc spinoff#matthias helvar#helnik#nina zenik#sab#six of crows#save six of crows#save shadow and bone#shadow and bone#crooked kingdom#grishaverse
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actually, no. you know what? i am so sick of this “marinette is just a friend” bs. okay. cool. adrien said she was just a friend a few times. whatever. it’s not that big of a deal and everyone in the mlb fandom like. hyperfixates on that??? idc if it’s a “just a joke” because it’s utterly ridiculous at this point. i have literally seen people go on heated rants about how stupid or clueless adrien was during the umbrella scene because he called mari just a friend. are you kidding me??? y’all are really going to take away that moment for him? he just made like his first ever friend in nino and when he called her a friend, he looked so excited because this boy has only ever had one friend before. of course he’s going to call mari just a friend because he just met her and the only time she’s actually spoken to him outside of the suit at this point is to yell at him like... y’all...
and this is not me hating on mari because i love her so so so much. i just hate how passionate and heated fans get about this. i mean... y’all... adrien didn’t even think mari liked him??? like, in puppeteer two, he is literally upset because he came to the conclusion that mari hates him. also, of course he’s not like in love with or crushing on her when she’s barely spoken actual sentences to him! again, not me hating on mari and her nerves because like i get it, it’s hard. and also this is like adrien’s first time interacting with people as peers, so 1. of course romance is not his main priority 2. he doesn’t understand social cues or situations very well At All which is made abundantly clear in the show 3. i don’t... i don’t think adrien knows what affection is??? i mean, he’s definitely learned some over the course of the show, but he’s used to a neglectful / abusive father, his stoic assistant, his bodyguard who doesn’t really talk like at all, chloé being chloé, and hoards of fans declaring that they’re in love with him, hanging all over him, acting like he’s a shiny thing rather than a person, etc... so like. how is adrien supposed to actually comprehend that mari likes him???
and okay no my last point: so so so sick of the double standard. i have seen countless people rant and rave and scream and shout about how stupid adrien is for not returning mari’s feelings or knowing he has a crush on her and then these same people will turn around and berate chat noir and say things like “gosh ladybug isn’t obligated to return his feelings:/” like... hELLO??? why is ladybug not obligated while adrien is??? it’s ridiculous and disgusting and i’m so so so tired of “just a friend” jokes on tumblr, in art, in fics, in youtube compilations... like... can’t we be normal about this? and i don’t mean normal as in “casually enjoy” i mean normal as in can we stop being so aggressive and harsh and hostile towards literal fourteen year olds my God they’re children they’re allowed to make mistakes and mess up and my God the way y’all talk about lila is disgusting, too like i hate her but i don’t want her tortured and killed??? and the way people characterize the classmates as physically and verbally assaulting mari because of lila??? like... my God they would never??? they would all honestly side with mari chameleon is a bad episode and is poorly written and everyone is out of character please use your critical thinking skills and understand that chat noir is not harassing ladybug anymore than mari may be harassing adrien (aka they are not harassing each other at all my God) and stop insulting and demonizing fourteen year olds so your otp can get together thanks
#i have. feelings.#sorry y'all#this may be harsh but i am so beyond sick of it#i've been going through the classmates tag on ao3 and filtered out all the s.alt fics for all the characters and the majority of the fics#i'm seeing are aggressive lila takedown fics or like unproperly tagged s.alt fics#where the classmates are still rude and aggressive and bully mari when even lila doesn't really bully mari that badly??? like yes it is#awful that she tried to get her expelled and lied a bit about her but lila has never been physical nor tried to kill mari and nor would any#of the classmates actually turn against her like. they may disagree with her or think she may be acting on her crush and yes lila did#threaten mari in the bathroom but like... what has she done since then? try to get her expelled and then... nothing. like. this is Not me#saying not to take bullying seriously but people take it to the extreme with lila and how she treats mari in fics and i am so so so sick of#it!!! i just want to read mlb classmate fics where they're all silly and being teenagers without mari being unreasonably and uncanonically#bullied and without the tags 'alya/adrien/classmate redemption' HELLO??? WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE REDEEMED??? THEY AREN'T VILLAINS??? THEY ARE#FOURTEEN??? as a rule of thumb i refuse to read fics with those tags like sorry but if you tag fics like that then you obviously don't know#the characters. i'm sorry if this sounds mean or harsh it's just exhausting trying to find fun or sweet or found family mlb fics because so#many of them are so negative and ooc and involve like extreme hatred towards fourteen year old fictional children... like... how do we not#see the problem with that??? like... am i overreacting??? please someone tell me they agree with me!!! i've been working on this really#stressful assignment that determines whether i graduate my future career and also costs three hundred dollars to take so i've been really#stressed and every time i try and take an mb fic break i end up more stressed because the fandom is so cruel to children ahhhhhhhh#okay i am. done. maybe i'll delete this later... i just need to see if someone agrees with me because i am. :))) on the verge of losing it#lol#mlb
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One thing I'm noticing in some of the fandom reactions to this breakup and the aftermath is that the characters have been put on a pedestal and are being judged against some pretty unrealistic standards. They get raked over the coals for every single mistake. I've seen it with both characters but recently I've seen it the most with Tim.
Don't get me wrong, in no way am I condoning his current behavior. He's made multiple mistakes and he's broken Lucy's trust and her heart. He absolutely needs to be held accountable for all of these things and he owes her an apology and that adult conversation and a whole lot more if they're gonna be able to be together again.
But what he's doing right now, his imperfect actions as he navigates this period of his life... it's very human. This is a man who is at rock bottom, and when you're drowning in the weight of your own trauma like he is, you often don't have the strength to see beyond that and understand how your actions are impacting the people around you. He's not being cruel (which, by the way, implies intentionality to one's actions) by breaking up with her or denying her that conversation. He's drowning.
He truly can't see that she's *not* better off without him. He can't see how much he's hurt her, and that he continues to hurt her with his actions. I don't even think he could answer her questions right now about why he did what he did, because he doesn't fully understand it himself. He can't see anything beyond his own lack of self-worth. Right now, expecting him to be able to fully comprehend what he's done and why is completely unrealistic.
Now, does this excuse his behavior? Absolutely not. But it does explain it.
And the thing that's bothering me the most is the posts saying Tim doesn't deserve Lucy's forgiveness. This is a man who has completely fallen apart but is finally taking the first steps toward healing. Shouldn't he be given a chance at redemption before being written off as unforgivable? And shouldn't Lucy be the one to decide whether to forgive him?
Again, I'm not defending his actions. He has a lot of work to do on himself and he has a lot of work to do to gain back Lucy's trust. It's not going to be easy. But to say he doesn't deserve forgiveness without even giving him a chance? That's pretty harsh. He doesn't deserve to spend the rest of his life being defined by his worst moments. No one does.
#they're not perfect#they're human#if you want a characters that make no mistakes (and are therefore boring and shallow as hell) I direct you to John Nolan and Bailey Nune#Tim and Lucy are complex#and imperfect#and should be given a chance to grow and learn#rather than being cancelled for their mistakes#I sure hope if I ever screwed up like this but took accountability for it the people in my life would be more supportive and understanding#chenford#lucy chen#tim bradford#the rookie
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You said the arcs of certain characters in TOH have an 'Us vs. Them mentality.' I take it that's because, as you say, the narrative pins the bad qualities of certain characters on separate parties (e.g. "Amity's flaws are only because of her mom"), but would you care to elaborate further on said mentality and how it sticks out to you in TOH?
So shockingly, not really. It plays into it but I am actually inherently talking about the same sort of mentality that Belos perpetuates but back onto Luz. After all, if you look at the main cast by even mid season 2 we have a problem forming.
Eda: Has lost her criminal edge, has no personal interests, is defined by being nice in a way befitting Luz's worldview. Momma Eda.
Amity: No longer is studious and hard working but instead focuses more on her girlfriend and her nerdy interests. Is also now just nice. Was only shown genuine care by Luz, instead of just trying to fulfill her nerdy desires, once she finds out Amity is into Azura.
Lilith: Has turned into a nerd and given up on any ambitions that had led to her previous actions, becoming a nice cool aunt. Only now has Luz tried to form any relationship with her (admittedly, she didn't get many chances before now).
Hunter: Has only been being given kindness because he has shown a capacity for kindness that Luz only really started showing him, beyond not wanting him to die, once he showed he had a nerdy interest in wild magic.
Gus: Was a nerd from go and always nice, even if he could be slightly selfish.
Willow: By mid S2, is essentially out of the show for the past half season, has never had a strong personality and is just nice. Yes, she'll start her jock stuff soon... And never have a real conversation with Luz again, at least not until S3 maybe? So a full season where Luz and Willow, after Willow might have stopped being nerdy/an outcast, where Luz doesn't have an interest in her anymore.
And uh, just as a reminder to S3, Hunter gains a scifi interest post redemption and Luz explicitly listens to NOTHING her mother says to her during her big speech in For the Future until she reveals herself to be a secret nerd. At that point, suddenly Luz dials in.
For TOH, a show supposedly about the individual and self expression, characters either lose their personality and/or gain the personality that matches LUZ. There is less character variety in interests and personalities than even 90s cartoons much of the time by the end of TOH because these characters all lose so much of themselves fitting in with the good guys, especially the redeemed ones.
This is where your argument for this does come into play. I'll frame it as the fandom likes to with Amity: "She didn't have Luz in her life yet."
Amity is only a bitch while she is hanging out with the wrong crowd. Socialites, those with ambition and jocks. The Luz enters her life and despite the fact that the ONE time Luz ever calls Amity out for being a bitch being when Amity is being a bully to King and clearly trying to get a rise out of Luz, making that moment meaningless, that simple fact starts warping Amity. Starts making her turn back to her good, nerdy side. And because this is such an inherently good thing, there is no difficulty in doing this. She needs no motivation, no calling out, nothing. She just needs to desire to be like Luz/liked by Luz. She can discard her entire friend group and do things that should get her disowned with how evil Odalia is and face zero consequences because... I guess that's the power of becoming a nerd.
You are beyond reproach. You can only do good. Same goes for Hunter. Despite YEARS of potential propaganda and the like, Luz just getting into his life and admittedly jabbing at Belos/him a little, is all it takes for him to embrace the inherent goodness, displayed by his nerdiness about wild magic, and start becoming a better person. For this, he loses his home but that is only seen as a positive because indeed, he got away from those hostile that made him a bad person. He could now be a good person because he no longer had those influences and could embrace Luz's way of life.
With the show's themes, why is this the case? Shouldn't their base personalities be allowed to exist? Shouldn't a wide range of ideologies and the like be allowed since that is a part of self expression? Instead, when people don't like Luz approves, they are disapproved by Luz and either need to get the fuck out or conform.
And this is all without getting into how she becomes Jesus in the last episode...
None of this is intentional but if someone told me that the show felt hostile to them because they didn't consider themselves a nerd or because they tried to get somewhere in life, I wouldn't blame them. The show has a weirdly narrow belief in who is a good person. Who is allowed to exist in the main cast, a problem that cascades issues into a lot of its themes. I mean, this is the first show I've ever had to ask if character arcs are actually hurt the themes of the show because of this, a blog I sadly couldn't refind.
There is admittedly an element of this where I might not have thought about it without the fandom. Most people I know who are multi-fandom still agree that TOH is aggressive against others, even for a fandom. That it lashes out and blames others for its problems. Almost like a *gestures at the thesis*
And that doesn't help make any of this be less uncomfortable unfortunately. See you next tale.
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I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past.
I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead.
If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.
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And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.
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Why I believe Spade King will be redeemed
The Spade King is a... controversial character to say the least. From what I've seen, opinions of him range from a complete monster to an abusive douche with little leeway.
So, making a post about how this villain will be redeemed in future chapters may seem like a slap in the face. Let it be known that none of this is to upset real survivors of abuse, but instead it is to highlight the many indicators I feel show that Spade King is not beyond redemption.
I personally have had this theory since around when chapter 2 came out, and time has only solidified it, but this is the first time I actually got the confidence to post it.
That being said, let's get into the evidence.
THE FOUNTAIN
In the 6th anniversary stream for Undertale, Fangamer played through an edited version of Deltarune with Toby Fox making comments about development, the characters etc.
When facing the Spade King, Fangamer talked about how they hoped Spade King had been a good dad 'before the other mouth grew in'.
Toby Fox then says this;
'I mean, I think that fountain definitely changed his behaviour. For sure.'
This quote is stated around the 3 hour mark of the livestream video below.
So what does this mean? You may want to argue that Toby was not be literal when he made this statement, and that the fountain was a simple temptation instead of something that directly effected his behaviour. But then there's the queen...
The queen seems to have also experienced this fountain brought phenomena despite only wanting to use it to serve the Lightners instead of oppose.
She threatens and attempts to kill the Lightners. She establishes a regime significantly more strict then the last. She won't stop going on about the Knight. These are all things the King does as well.
It seems that the fountain abstracts the behaviour of their respective rulers for the sake of the Knight.
Okay, so the fountain impacts the King's behaviour, great. Doesn't change the fact that he threatened his son, and refuses to apologise or acknowledge his wrong doing now the fountain is closed.
Well, that leads me onto the next part...
HIS SON
Let's immediately establish one thing; the Chaos King does care for his son. While how genuine that care is is debated by the fandom, I would like to make the case that he was a good dad and does want Lancer to be happy.
First of all is the quote about the fountain that Toby made in the anniversary stream, which was a reply to a comment about how Fangamer hoped that he was a good dad.
Replying then seems to indicate that the fountain did impact his ability to be a good father.
More importantly is his dialogue in jail.
Here, he asked directly if his son is happy, in hesitant, even reserved manner. This is in direct contrast to how he mocks the Lightners with his boisterous grin or cruel frown.
Remember when he was yelling that he'll 'KILL ALL OF YOU' while his subjects dragged him away? An insurrection led by his son, who he called a traitor? Despite this, he seems to hold no ill will towards his son or his fellow darkners (we'll get to that). This behaviour I believe was caused by the fountain, thus the attitude change.
And yes, I do acknowledge that he has lied for sympathy before (his act before Ralsei healed him in chapter 1), but this is different. There is no reason to lie at this point; there's no way they would believe him.
He also admits that if he HAD let his son go, Lancer would have just... bounced. He then calls his son a bouncy little pumpkin. This line is notably similar to a line right after Susie casts pacify on him, calling her a 'sweet little pumpkin', again hinting that he was a good dad before the fountain and his love towards Lancer isn't a lie.
'But' you may argue, 'Lancer was afraid! He knew his son was scared of him but kept threatening anyways!'
Which is a valid point, and is obviously horrible.
BUT combined with the fountain being an impact for his decisions, I think it is also a valid idea that there's more to it than 'The Spade King is abusive'.
Both the Queen and King are callous when it comes to the opinion and wellbeing of others. Queen spends the entirety of Chapter 2 attempting to force Noelle to do as she says, even threatening to kill her classmates (and crush) for the sake of her goal.
What King does is similar, making Lancer watch as his friends get killed because he didn't do as he said. It's cruel, yes, but this is another case where you can argue the fountain may have led to this mutual behaviour.
(You may argue that the Queen has the excuse of being a computer who isn't completely in tune with peoples emotions. This argument doesn't really make sense because she actively uses Noelle's emotions against her in a way that shows she understands how upset it makes her.)
I do believe that Spade King knew his son was upset and still went along with it. This post isn't some elongated argument for Spade King's sainthood.
But I do have to say, him being aware and still going along with it may explain why he's hesitant to talk about Lancer in his jail cell. He knows he messed up and is feeling guilty post-fountain, he's just too prideful to up and say it to the face of the enemy. What he did is not a show of Spade King's abusive inhernet nature but an example of the fountain clouding his full judgement at that moment.
Also, you may argue that Spade King was neglectful of his son, leaving him to Rouxls Kaard to be cared for. I do believe that there has been a bit of exaggeration on this point. Yes, he does put his son in the care of his employees perhaps more than he should, but he's also straight up a King. He's a busy guy.
'Oh, but he doesn't feed him, the poor boy is starving!'
Honestly, my big question is why he's cooking in the first place. He's a King, he has subjects literally fanning his son and he can't afford one chef? It seems like this is more a downtime thing he does with his son for the sake of family bonding (may explain where the food based nickname of 'sweet little pumpkin' came from) and he knows his son will be fed by his employees when he's busy.
Again, too dependent, but I don't see any signs of such an intense neglect to call him a bad dad.
Of course, this is more in the assumption category. It is possible the neglect is more active and that the King is just a douche, but I feel that we are being purposely mislead here.
Now, onto the final point.
HIS SUBJECTS
Let's talk about why Spade King did what he did.
Spade King hates Lightners, that much is obvious. He calls them scum, says that 'their existence goes against our own' and feels absolutely no guilt towards trying to kill them post-fountain.
Which isn't really not justified. Darkners were made to keep Lightners happy, only to be abandoned by them. The Chaos King has to watch as the kingdom, HIS kingdom, rotted without meaning. He had to raise his son with the understanding that he would never be 'truely happy' because the so called only source of happiness for Darkners left them to the wayside.
So, when the Knight came, is it really that surprising he would try to create a 'new purpose' as he said? Yes, perhaps world domination is a bit insane (maybe he's dramatic like that, maybe it was the fountain, he does hate Lightners so it's likely both) but the core of his ideals, that darkners can be something beyond what they are to Lightners is not only justified but correct.
In the scene where the gang are walking to the castle in Chapter 1, Lancer acknowledges how happy he is to be here, feeling like he's doing 'something important'. Ralsei replies that this is because he is serving the Lightners and that is the purpose of the Darkners.
Susie is notably uncomfortable, and dismisses Ralsei's point as 'weird purpose' talk and simply says that Lancer is just happy because he ate a weird berry. This is the first sign that the plot beat of Darkners only gaining happiness from Lightners is not just going to be an accepted status quo by the main cast and that there is likely to be more contention about the subject in the future.
(I would also like to mention that Ralsei in this scene asks if the Spade King is happy, in which Lancer very hesitantly says he's not sure.)
Then, in chapter 2, Ralsei is shown to be confused about friendship. He starts to understand that friendship is more than just being nice all the time and that he should be more 'Ralsei-like', meaning more like himself.
The problem is that he doesn't know what that is. He's spent all this time forming himself into the perfect companion but he doesn't know how to be himself. This is a result of his purpose, his wish to be the perfect Darkner for his friends. Now, his purpose seems more cloudy. Should he continue being the perfect little angel for his friends or should he become someone who is more genuine on their own terms, like what his friends seem to want?
While Ralsei is still doing everything he can for the Lighteners, he is slowly becoming his own individual, which is what the King wanted for all Darkners.
Then there's the general themes of control. Be it Kris, the secret bosses or the Spade King, all of these people wish to be more than the binds that control them. While the Spade King is acting on behalf of the Knight, he does so to free his people from the influence of the Lightners, to make purpose on their own terms and be their own people.
Just like how Kris wishes to be free from, you, the player, also making their own purpose and be their own person. May I remind you that the Darkners are media and toys, fun things meant to be enjoyed. They are in universe equivalents of video game characters, made to entertain Lightners, just like Kris, Ralsei and Susie are made to entertain us. The only difference is that the latter is closer to the forth wall.
So yes, while his world domination thing was wack, I believe the Spade King is righteous in his core values.
So why doesn't any other character seem to agree?
Ralsei completely believes that Darkners can only gain happiness from Lightners, Queen does everything she does for the sake of Lightners, hell, the town that the Darkners live in isn't named after the Prince or anything but you, a Lightner. They even call you boss!
At this point, the only character who cares for Darkners having a purpose outside of Lightners is locked in a jail cell.
Now, it is possible that Toby Fox introduces another character who has Spade King's beliefs but is less nasty about it, but that's lame. It's also possible that Ralsei has an epiphany and realise that Darkners deserve better and that becomes the result of his arc. Better, and I can see him going in that direction, but I still think it's less satisfactory.
In any route in which you don't get all recruits, the King is the only person who acknowledges this and is actively upset about it. Even the Queen is hesitant yet still ultimately okay with leaving her subjects behind because the Lightners are onboard.
The goofy cutscene where he asks for cashews? Gone. He simply remarks on how you left them behind like Lightners left the Card Kingdom darkners behind and tells you to 'Begone'. The first line is said with a smile, knowing that he's been proven right but after that, the smile leaves and he's just... cold. He seems genuinely upset about what happened to the Darkners you left behind, portrayed with a '...' in his second line and the loss of his smile. He is not trying to trick you, you simply disgust him at this point. He cares for Darkners in a way that no character has shown yet (aside from Nubert (the goat))
This is why the title of this post is why Spade King is GOING to be redeemed and not me saying he SHOULD be. The difference in levity between an interaction with the Spade King post full recruits and not full recruits indicates that by getting recruits, the King is more willing to acknowledge you and, perhaps with time, your points and intentions. If Spade King was supposed to be this abusive bastard, having characters such as the Queen be on positive terms with him seems strange. You can argue nuance all you want, but the Queen, a character who we're supposed to like, being friends with a character we're supposed to end up hating seems like a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially if he's a straight up child abuser.
(yes I know she might not know but are you really expecting an epic drama where Queen finds out he's an abusive scumbag and calls him out? Having a morally positive character be friends with an abuser can work but in this situation, it is objectively a weird choice and I will argue on that)
He asks for cashews in this chapter and suckles out a giant hamster water container. Maybe the second serves to make him look pathetic, but then the Queen apparently has the same thing but bigger. The cashew bit is played off as endearing more then anything.
This is all because you got those recruits. Without them, he doesn't even talk to you. Therefore, it can be concluded that Spade King does have a chance. After all, if all of him was completely against you and believed you would be bound to abandon them, he would not be talking to you in any route. It's only when you prove it directly that he stops.
Toby Fox uses the recruit dialogue to endear you to him, which I presume is to set up a redemption if you continue to go down the recruit everyone path. By proving him wrong in future chapters, I presume he will talk more about himself and his ideals and perhaps listen to the Fun Gang and his son in turn.
CONCLUSION
My prediction is that over the course of the chapters, players will see more and more endearing aspects of the Chaos King, with things such as his theoretical neglect and love for Lancer being properly clarified and elaborated on, but only if you keep all recruits. He will still be sceptical, perhaps even leading to him going against you when the Knight returns, but he will ultimately fight by your side if you have successfully convinced him through your treatment of the Darkners that Lightners aren't bad after all.
Hopefully by the ending point, Ralsei would have had enough of an extential crisis to hear the Spade King out on his whole 'Darkners deserve to be happy without the Lightners' deal. Susie would absolutely be on board with her friends finding happiness without needing Lightners (I can see her arguing with Ralsei about it in a future chapter).
I can see him sacrificing himself, but I don't want Lancer to deal with that.
The final point I would like to mention is his place in the narrative. A lot of people have argued that all he is meant to be in an objective evil to prove that Ralsei was wrong about fighting never being the answer and that a redemption would ruin that, and yes, that is his role is chapter 1.
But if that was his only purpose, bringing him back as the only person to actively acknowledge the consequences of your lack of recruits seems pointless. Giving him moments of endearment and clarifying he loves his son is unnecessary. You, again, can argue it's for the sake of nuance but I think at this point I have clarified that there is a lot more to it than that.
Besides, what would be more satisfying to see than the most stubborn character of your journey, the only one you could not convince in the chapter he appeared in, joining your side as a result of you sparing every darkner you can?
In a game with only one ending, making routes like full mercy seem worth it is kind of important if you want players to bother caring about those mechanics. The few dialogue changes we do get really don't cut it.
But witnessing the development of a character who you started off hating but then becomes your ally due to your decisions and comes to help you in your darkest hour?
That would be worth it.
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Thanks for reading this theory! It's been a while since I've written a theory like that. Do say your opinions, I know this is a desisive topic but I am still happy to hear people's perspectives!
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Do you think that the gaang atla movie might make casual fans realize bryke are not the best writers? Like Everywhere they get praised but honestly if the writing in the movie is at the levels of the comics I could maybe see ppl turn on them a bit ( it also sucks bc I doubt katara and zuko will even interact in the movie)
Hi anon! I think people will almost certainly be disappointed in the new Avatar Studios movie, because nothing has even come close to the quality of ATLA after the original show ended. However, from what I’ve observed in the fandom, there’s always someone other than Bryke to blame. For example, when people rag on Korra, they blame Nickelodeon. When they rag on the comics, they blame Gene Yang (and incidentally I’ve actually seen a K/ataang shipper say that the reason the comics are so bad is because Gene Yang is a Zutara shipper — as if a grown ass professional would compromise his contract / reputation for a ship war). And when they rag on the first live action movie, they rag on M. Night. I’m not saying that Bryke are completely at fault for the shortcomings for these projects — collaborative creative pursuits are wonderful, magical things and it’s hard to know where credit and blame go when the whole point is that collaboration is beyond the sum of its parts — but the bottom line is that when certain fans are hellbent on not blaming Bryke, there are always other scapegoats.
I’m friends with many casual fans, and they were the ones who got me into the show. Honestly, I don’t think they even gave a second thought to Bryke until they left the Netflix production, which is convenient because now people can credit Bryke for the ingenuity of ATLA and blame Netflix for driving them away. I’m not sure casual fans will turn on Bryke for making a mediocre movie…BUT: if Zuko undergoes a character regression similar to his comics arc, people will probably get mad. Zuko’s redemption arc is widely considered one of the best on TV. You cannot find a Reddit thread about “best redemption arcs of all time” without Zuko being one of the top answers. From Bryke’s interviews, it kind of feels like they don’t really understand his appeal, and if they butcher his character in the absence of writers who got him more…well, I think people will be real mad about that. I mean, people got so mad about NATLA Katara, and she’s nowhere near as beloved as Zuko b/c misogyny and racism and many people found her annoying but that’s a whole other thing
And on a related note, I agree that Katara and Zuko will probably barely interact in the new movie, and it will seem kind of stilted and awkward. I remember an interview with Aaron Ehasz where he said that he’s not really a shipper and he doesn’t write stories with shipping in mind: what matters more is letting the narrative drive itself. That POV, undoubtedly shared by others in the writers’ room (including MVP Elizabeth Welch), is what was responsible for the development of the Katara - Zuko friendship in the original show in the first place. It’s very, very stifling to prioritize a ship war over the actual story. Antis claim Zutara shippers create convoluted fanfic plots where other characters and relationships are downplayed in favour of their ship, but that’s exactly what happens in the canon comics wrt K/ataang. I don’t know if it’ll seem so transparent to the casual viewer, but even if the motivations aren’t obvious, the decline in quality sure will be. For the sake of my love for all Gaang-related shenanigans I hope Bryke won’t go down that road for the new movie, but…well, they’ve done pettier things.
Thanks for your question anon, and please share any of your further thoughts!
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The Fandom from Twitter scares me
Okay a really hate how Chloe being “racist” is enough for this people to say she is beyond redemption
Like how???
Yeah, be racist is a bad thing obviously but for character bad traits standards this is not the worst crime
At worst she is just ignorant
A lot of bully characters and even characters of her age the have done even worst than her were redeemed, if they can, so she
Also is hypocrite to say her age and trauma doesn’t excuse her but then you excuse Marinette and even Felix for their actions
And I would say it, I think Felix is even worst than Chloe
I’m sorry what???
Look me in the eyes and tell me, the Chloe from season 1 is the same as the 4 and 5 season
Like how???
She was a mean girl but not evil, just mean
And no, the writers didn’t fix her, Chloe suffered flanderization, her characterizations got over the place and acts way to out of character
How can this people say she doesn’t deserve a redemption when the show literally redeems an terrorist, a genocidal, a corrupt mayor and awful parents
If they can be redeem then a school bully also can
And if you still think just because a child is mean they are beyond redemption
Please, don’t have kids 💀
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listen i know the whole “ed did nothing wrong”/“killing and maiming his his coping mechanism uwu” thing is a super silly joke lol and even i found it funny but it’s kinda just pissing me off.
i just hate that they never really properly resolved ed resorting to violence when he’s upset and that he never really takes accountability for his actions onscreen. and when the side of the fandom that takes no issue at all with the way seeason two was presented makes jokes that show they’re like aware of the vibes they just don’t care bc they hold characters they don’t like and characters they do like to entirely different standards. it’s just annoying lol.
like listen. yeah. ed’s my special little babygirl princess haha i love him. but like. i feel like it’s also ignoring the fact that the violence is actually bad for ed’s mental health and we know this and it’s canonically established.
the same people who make “ed did nothing wrong” jokes literally call people who do the same to izzy bad people. not all of them but like the people aligned with that Side of the fandom.
like first of all we know that canonically though ed’s capable of violence it’s not good for him. that’s a huge part of his character, that he doesn’t want to be Blackbeard. so the jokes ur making leave your favourite character unhappy anyway? and if you’re going to talk like that about ed then why is it a CRIME to do the same about izzy?
i think i’m just kinda annoyed bc people act like if you’re critical of the way the writing failed to give ed a great redemption arc it’s because you’re a racist idiot blind with love for izzy, but in fact, you can remove izzy from the equation entirely and it still sucks because it sucks for ed’s character that his arc was so confusing and we left him in such an uncertain place as a character.
listen, i don’t exactly advertise this bc i feel like people won’t understand, but i’ve been through a lot of trauma, and at times in my life when that’s been a lot fresher for me, i’ve had really serious issues with anger and aggression and lashing out. i think that’s why i connected with izzy and i think it’s why i connected with ed so strongly but also found it so hard to watch the first couple episodes of the second season.
and coming from that place, with that perspective, when i talk about ed being abusive towards izzy and the narrative not being resolved, i am NOT hating on ed and cancelling ed and saying ed is an evil person. what i’m saying is that ofmd s2 took on a really, really complex and serious and intense subject matter, and then the writing failed to carry the weight of that. i love ed, and i feel like his character was let down by us not seeing him clearly express that he’s holding himself accountable for his actions on-screen, or even seeing him healing in relation to his violent impulses that come from his trauma. his killing spree in the finale was really odd in terms of his overall arc and is honestly what threw it all off the most for me. like it’s obvious that scenes regarding ed’s apologies and forgiveness from the crew are supposed to have happened and we maybe just didn’t see all of it, because the season was rushed due to the screen time. but a lot of it is also just poor decisions in the writing and the way ed’s storyline is laid out in the final cut.
to me, saying that ed’s arc was beautiful and perfect and it’s wrong to criticise it or to acknowledge the severity of his mistakes and actions isn’t a form of loving ed. it’s a way of saying you’d rather ed actually not take steps towards healing, just because you want to pretend he didn’t do anything wrong in the first place so you can feel like the better person in the conversation. to me, the people who say ed did no wrong are expressing that they actually don’t love ed.
i mean it’s not that deep, it’s all fictional, but i wish people would look beyond their predisposition to condemning criticism of something they like, and see that there’s a lot of heart, and a lot of really personal experience and real-world context behind the arguments people are making, and that other opinions about the writing in s2 are worth listening to even if they make you uncomfortable at first.
#izzy hands#that’s the only tag i can add without major risk of getting a huge amount of hate#or maybe#ofmd critical#i know this isn’t a super smart meta post or anything but still
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One thing I want to see explored more in both canon and fandom is Cassie’s relationship with Diana’s mission.
Cassie is a powerhouse. She’s a fighter. She’s aggressive, and loves kicking butt and taking down villains who deserve it. She’s been that way from her earliest appearances, and it never really changed, all the way through the end of preboot. That may be fine for most superhero characters, but it’s a constant that just doesn’t really make sense for a protege and disciple of Diana of Themyscira, who has a mission, ideals, and an approach to heroism that differs from most. I can’t think of a single plot line that explores Cassie’s relationship to Amazonian ideals, and how they (should) affect her work as a hero.
What are those ideals? What is Diana’s mission?
The specifics tend to change between eras, writers, and reboots, but Diana’s mission is to bring peace and justice to man’s world. That’s pretty vague, and broad, and Diana is canonically often distracted from it by crimefighting and superhuman threats (which, fair, hard to teach peace when some megalomaniac is tearing up a city).
“The superheroes of this planet and beyond… their mission is to avenge, to protect, to police. Mine is different. My mission is to teach, to learn, to serve. Hippolyta preached, as I and all Amazons believe, that with understanding and respect all things are bearable, believable, and possible.”
In its simplest explanation, Diana’s mission is one of peace and equality. She’s an ambassador, bringing Amazonian forms of diplomacy and social structure to man’s world, and creating reform through education, opportunity, and service.
“I am trained as a warrior, Barbara, but I am trained also to think of those skills as a last resort. There is no human conflict which cannot be served better with words than with the sword.”
Her greatest tools are not her lasso or gauntlets, but reason and compassion. Violent force is her last resort; while her use of violence varies by writer, that was a recurring trait for the best WW writers.
“We have a saying, my people. Don’t kill if you can wound, don’t wound if you can subdue, don’t subdue if you can pacify, and don’t raise your hand at all until you’ve first extended it.” —Wonder Woman, Vol. 3, No. 25
Diana may utilize violence when the situation calls for it, but her objective first and foremost is peace.
Before violence, no matter what they do to her or what they’ve done in the past, she reaches out. She tries reaching people through conversation, treating enemies and ordinary people alike with kindness, respect, and empathy. Love without discrimination. Redemption and transformation over punishment.
Cassie adores Diana. She believes in her, and shares many traits. She absolutely believes in helping people, and that protecting another is worth her life. But she’s also inclined toward holding grudges, and often has a very black and white perspective on good guys and bad guys. She has compassion in spades, but has a difficult time putting herself in other people’s shoes. She was always gung-ho for a fight, but after Donna’s death, and the string of losses that follow, she grows increasingly angry and unforgiving in both her heroic and personal life.
I want Cassie to argue with Diana’s nonviolent principles. I want her to struggle with understanding and incorporating this pacifistic view, when violence is so ingrained into her own view of superheroes.
I want her to grapple with Diana’s teachings, and be at war with herself because a bad guy might deserve punishment in her eyes, but that isn’t always the right path to justice.
I want Cassie to act as a diplomat.
I want her to talk villains down, instead of punch first, ask questions later.
In that Titans storyline where she visits Alcatraz and sees the terrible conditions there, I want her to say, “What the fuck is this?” And force a prison reform.
I want her joining Diana on outreach efforts, advocating as Diana does for education and equality, and acting as her liaison.
Just. Stories about Cassie dealing with the teachings of her mentor and the Amazons, whether it’s enacting those teachings or coming into conflict with them.
#cassie sandsmark#diana of themyscira#she’s a brute force kinda gal and that’s great but it shouldn’t be that way every time#I know it’s probably a difficult thing to work into superhero comics#considering how much action and fight scenes play a role#But good writers managed a fine balance of Diana’s views and her handling of conflict#don’t ask me where those screenshots are from I forgot#the second one is definitely byrne’s run bc that’s his art style#I need a tag for my Cassie meta#this is my third or fourth big post on her#talking about cassie#cassandra sandsmark
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is this a safe space ship? because i feel like i have to either love izzy and forgive all he's ever done or hate him and think he's a systematic abuser to be able to 'fit' in the fandom these days
They both fucked up and they both hurt each other, but Ed is the main character and is therefore a lot more... defined? it's easier to point out where his behavior comes from so i GET the divide about Izzy cus you just don't know where his behavior stems from. It's all speculation, so it's easy to pick him up as an abuser and as victim, depending how you see the show and who you are as a person.
Ed is the one with an actual backstory and a well defined redemption/forgiveness arc and he's a lot easier to understand because you see exactly why he acts in certain ways, even if his actions are flawed. I think they are both capable of change. Ed just has a support system that loves and understands him(stede <3) and Izzy didn't really have that, so how would he even change if he has no one? They both need to work through things, but Ed will most likely be the only one to do so, since there are so many signs that Ed has potential to change for the better.
my (second) favourite show says “no one is beyond rehabilitation” and i think we should look at every character that way.
#ofmd#our flag means death#izzy hands#edward teach#ed teach#stede bonnet#the izcourse#izzy hands critical#ofmd meta
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Felix v Chloe
Lemme just say, I hate the way Felix is treated in the show and the fandom compared to Chloe
Somehow, someway, the characters can forgive Felix and even have him on the team at the end (?????), and all of his actions are completely absolved due to his backstory: “Oh he was just doing all that for his survival! He was just an awkward quirky guy with no social cues all along!”
But Chloe’s backstory even being brought up for an explanation is immediately shut down, it doesn’t excuse a single thing she’s done! Hell, it doesn’t even explain why she’s the way she is because Mylene has an absent mother and she turned out fine! Doesn’t matter that Mylene had a father that actually taught her how to act and didn’t just buy her love with constant gifts and abuses of power, there’s just no excuse!
Both act in their own self interest, turning to the villain to get something they want, but nonono, Felix, without apologizing once mind you, is redeemed and forgiven while Chloe gets sent off to NY with her mother! Everyone wins!
Not to mention Felix did arguably worse than Chloe
Felix was the one who actively made Hawkmoth more powerful by giving him the miraculous (not to mention giving HM the ring) while with Chloe, Hawkmoth got the miraculous on his own and she was just along for the ride basically. Then Felix came back and snapped away everyone. Chloe sent everyone away when she was akumatized as well, but at least we could see where they went and there wasn’t any confusion as to whether they got snapped to some pocket dimension or straight up disappeared. Oh, and she was akumatized by Gabriel who was literally manipulating her along with Tomoe and Lila at the time??
I feel like any arguments for Felix about worrying for his or Adrien’s safety, any excuses, should’ve been thrown out the window in the season 4 finale. After that point he had full control over himself and gave up Adrien’s free will, and he still came back to snap everyone away! Now, I would absolutely be fine with this (cept the Adrien part) I mean trauma with humans isn’t going to go away just like that even when there’s no immediate risk anymore (unless you get a girlfriend apparently). My issue with that is how this same sentiment isn’t given to Chloe whatsoever, her lash outs aren’t given any thought beyond “oh she’s evil for the sake of it”, ignoring how the trauma of her mother leaving her and treating her like garbage would still affect her, and it drives me up the wall
Not to mention the show actively tries to pretend that the adults surrounding Chloe’s life don’t have any influence on her whatsoever, even though they obviously do and Tomoe and Gabriel literally set her up as a scapegoat in this season. Somehow her father isn’t responsible whatsoever for the way she was raised, her mother leaving apparently didn’t even affect her behavior because we’re genuinely supposed to believe this teenager is just an evil person. Somehow the storyline of her being set up as a scapegoat by two grown ass adults is literally ignored by the narrative including some of the fans
Oh but Felix gets all the sympathy regardless of what he did
Right.
I wouldn’t hate Felix or his character direction so much if it wasn’t a direct slap to the face for Chloe, not to mention giving the Chloe stans fuel! I mean, it literally proved their point that Chloe deserved a redemption because full grown adults who’ve done worse and a guy who’s done nearly the same shit as her are forgiven and “redeemed”, ridiculous (I say that a lot huh)
#ml salt#ml writing salt#ml writing critical#ml chloe#chloe deserves better#felix salt#ml fandom salt#felix deserves better#writing that is
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To be honest, I feel uncomfortable that Transformers fandom has a tendency to want Optimus only to be morally flawless.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you have to love all OP.
I fully understand with all my respect if you only want that kind of Optimus who is morally flawless.
The problem is the overcriticism of him who does not fit that standards of fandom.
Optimus is like the icon of Transformers. so he's in everyone's head like a soup with the images of all continuities rather than being thought of separately in each universes.
And if some Optimus in a particular continuity is being morally gray or making bad choices, people simply just read the wiki or read posts about that or ignore about the context why he made such choices then overcriticize him with confidence like he's the only one who's done wrong/bad things in the story.
And that's… that's just so weird. I've seen so many posts that overcriticizing him and getting self-righteous. They seem to feel themselves like… morally neat when they criticize Optimus. "I'm a very smart and analytical person who can spot these flaws even this overrated moral icon character!"
and... idk why but they are also obsessed with collecting Optimus' little faults and saying that Optimus should beg Megatron for forgiveness for THAT.
It's really weird considering Megatron also has done so many wrong things and they're always throwing same shits at each other in stories, but beyond that, above all, THEY ARE ALREADY PAST THAT STAGE!!
The two are no longer care about minor disputes in the past!!!
Megatron just wants to make Optimus know that his way is wrong, you little blind idealist, and Optimus is like "please just stop that madness and genocide and colonization. Universe hates us for this."
Do you really think that if Optimus apologizes to Megatron for the little things he did wrong in the past, the war will end just magically? AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT OPTIMUS NEVER TRIED SUCH THINGS DURING THE WAR?
I mean, if you really love and understand Optimus Prime, you should know that Optimus would have tried all the nonviolent ways to end the war arleady!
The initial feud between the two is no longer a matter now!The war between of them is now nothing but a huge ideological conflict!!
They are just divorced old men with a long history, not a fresh couple just started meeting each other!!!!!!
I just can't understand unless they enjoy criticizing the character who is considered as a moral icon to self-righteous themselves. I would fully understand if they criticize other characters equally, but no, they always have a huge double standard just for Optimus.
if they are all just nothing but Optimus haters, I still don't like it, but I could understand but this is also actually happening in Optimus fandom. Please show some love for him. at least don't try to prove your morality through him. please.
Oh I just read through what I wrote and I can see my anger is being expressed like a gradation LMAO I'm so sorry lol
anyway, so, yeah, please just see him as the same way like when you see the other common characters.
If you don't think of him as an overrated moral icon, or someone who should always be right, or a vessel of some kind of old ideologies (somehow people think that objectively correct ideologies are boring and outdated), but a person, you can enjoy the Transformers stories so much deeper. a low understanding of him will prevent you from enjoying thoes stories a lot. Like those ppl who blame Optimus just for cooperating with Ghost, without thinking about the consequences of not cooperating with them.
btw, the reason why I deleted my old tumblr was largely because of this. Back then, IDW Megatron was showing his redemption arc, and IDW Optimus was making mistakes to keep the peace he had barely achieved. and… yeah, I think you would know what was happend in Tumblr at the time. I left the fandom for 4 years because of that. The funny thing is, I didn't even know I was in love with Optimus until then. Anyone who knew me at that time would know how crazy I was about MTMTE lol
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Hi! Rainy here on her soapbox again!! Heres some things I've seen said about Eloise today
"Eloise be staying a terrible friend"
"Shes finally showng her true colors"
"This is the ultimate betrayal I don't care how mad she is I can't believe she'd do this to Penelope."
"Eloise was always a brat/bitch she deserves whatever happens to her for being friends with Cressida."
"If she was a true friend she wouldn't do this."
And lots more!
My thoughts on this? You all need to calm the fuck down oh my god.
Listen, I love Penelope, and I'm not exactly thrilled to see Eloise attaching herself to Cressida, but also you have to imagine being in her shoes.
You're 19 forced into a world and position you don't like, your reputation has been dragged through the mud, most of your acquaintances are no longer spaking to you, the first person you've had a crush on has basically said to never come around again, and you found out your best friend has been lying to you for years and using her anonymity to mock your family.
She gets to be hurt and upset. Penelope did betray her, and she may have been trying to do it to save her, but that doesn’t change that she did an it certainly doesn't change how she reacted when Eloise found her out.
We know from the live Cressida is the only person who was nice to her. Was it likely for a self serving reason? Does it likely have more to do with Eloises name than who she is as a person?
Maybe, but also, we really don't know Cressida beyond a surface level. I don’t know how to tell you his but characters can have more depth to them.
And even if she is, Eloise could also be in this friendship for self serving reasons as well.
Violet says it in Queen Charlotte, Eloise is lonely, and angry, and likely looking for a way to hurt Pen like shes been hurt. Cressida is excellent at helping her be less lonely and to also get back at someone who hurt her. In Eloises mind Cressida may be bad, but at least shes not pretending she isn't.
These girls are not done cooking, their brains are not fully developed, they are going to make impulsive, mean spirited decisions.
They shouldn't be crucified for them.
Marina lashes out at Pen for meddling, it's taken as evidence that shes actually this evil bitch. Eloise lashes out and makes friends with "the enemy?" She was never a true friend, and never actually cared about Penelope.
I love Penelope, I find her to be an interesting character with a lot of facets that can be played with, yet some how how this fandom keeps deciding she needs to always be in the victim role. Something she wouldn't agree with, seeing as sh seemingly hold some guilt about Marina, and immediately tried to run after Eloise. The things she does aren't full altruistic, to an extent they usually play in her favor. She knows shes in the wrong, why can't we as the audience accept that?
When Pen and El reunite, it shouldn't involve some huge redemption arc from Eloise for daring to befriend someone Penelope hates.
It should be genuine apologies, on both sides, because they've both said and done things to hurt each other.
Their friendship isn't going to be the same and I think thats okay honestly. They've both been self-centered in their friendship, niether really listened to each other, theres been secrets and fights that do change alter relationship. They have to rebuild, reassess and go from there.
#rainy talks#ugh this turned weird near the end sorry#but i stand by it#we don't even know if this friendship will be long lasting y'all need to chill#i also saw someone complain about Eloise bangs#so sorry shes gay she can't get rid of them ):#bridgerton#eloise bridgerton#cressida cowper#penelope featherington
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I'm seeing Moash discourse and because I hate peace I'm going to chime in with my own two cents since I think everyone is wrong.
On one side you've got the Moash defenders who want to genuinely advocate for him or say he's misunderstood or shouldn't be held accountable for his actions because he's under the control of Odium or was a slave or a victim or whathaveyou, which I think is pretty short sighted and ignorant because regardless Moash still made the choices he did of his own volition and he did decide to be put under Odium's emotional control in the first place. I do think Moash is a sympathetic and complex figure because of his background and the way he's been made a victim, but it's wrong to erase his culpability or try to say he's right when he just absolutely is not.
On the other side you've got Moash haters who are also just wrong. Because even if Moash is a bad person, he's not actually a person, but a character written by a human being with political and moral views. And regardless of your opinion on Moash as a moral figure, its inarguable that he is written as a lower class person who is driven by hate and revenge to become a monster and he's villainized beyond the point of other characters who are more privileged than him but committed just as if not even more horrific actions. Moash is "problematic" if you will, because he's a caricature that paints all forms of revolutions of violent rebellion as especially evil and dangerous. He is an example of the kind of media that portrays the leftist revolutionaries who have a point as the villains because they kill people. His writing results from those same neoliberal politics.
And on the topic of redemption, I don't think Brandon is against Moash being redeemed or thinks he's "worse" than other characters like a lot of people have tried to claim based on those WOB about him not being interested and having farther to go than Dalinar. Brandon is simply saying that redemption is a choice and right now Moash isn't interested in that choice, so that journey is going to be a lot more difficult for him as things stand now.
I do think there are problems with the way Moash is written but I think people are identifying those problems and then trying to defend Moash in the wrong ways. Whether he was justified in his actions is completely irrelevant to the issue of how he was written to commit those actions in the first place. And that's where the problem actually lies. Moash's writing is problematic because it paints the victims of oppressive systems as "just as bad" as the oppressors and villainizes genuine revolution because it's "too dangerous."
As for my personal feelings toward Moash the character, I don't hate him like a lot of people seem to. I sympathize with him too strongly to hate him. I honestly mostly feel bad for him and find his particular character conflict incredibly compelling, especially in ROW after he's made the decision to imprison himself and is attempting to imprison Kaladin. I do find the hatred towards Moash from the fandom a bit concerning, especially when Stormlight is full of characters who have committed similar atrocities who are much more liked. People don't have the sympathy towards his circumstances that I think they should.
#it's been a couple years since I read the earlier books so sorry if I was wrong about anything#gonna regret tagging this but oh well since when have I not had extremely controversial takes. this is nothing new#moash stormlight#cosmere#stormlight archive#sera posts
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Peak Drarry: Celebrating Incredible Writers - aibidil
Peak Drarry is a series of posts celebrating the absolute treasure trove of talented writers in this fandom, and a reminder of how lucky we are to have them here with us. I’m kicking it off with one of my all-time faves, @aibidil.
✨AIBIDIL✨
I’m guessing there are very few people involved in the Drarry fandom who haven’t heard of aibidil. Aibidil has been showering us with quality fic since 2017 and has over sixty offerings on AO3. Her works were some of the first I consumed when I fell headfirst into Drarry during covid, and had a lot to do with my desire to write my own. I still distinctly remember being blown away by A Hag, a Hex, a Tale of Redemption, by how aibidil had managed to create such a compelling, funny, and heartfelt fuck-or-die fic, one that stood out from the rest. So, why should you read aibidil’s fic? Here are a few reasons:
They are creative and get you thinking
Sometimes there’s a trope or two thrown into the mix, but even then, the trope is merely a jump-off point into something much bigger. Trope: Ginny and Harry break up and Harry finds solace in and then love with Draco. Aibidil comes along and says, okay, fine, but make the problem Ginny’s unwanted pregnancy, have Harry experience emotional turmoil over that fact (not that Harry-Abandonment-Issues-Should-Be-My-Middle-Name-Potter identifies with an unwanted fetus, no, of course not), have him spend the rest of the story sorting through his complicated feelings, and make the whole thing a testament to reproductive choice (this fic is called (Un)wanted, by the way. It’s incredible). Trope: Malfoy wears a skirt and Harry goes feral. Aibidil’s take? Malfoy wears the skirt because he and Hermione are leading a protest against the gendered, outdated Ministry dress codes (Beards, Booty Shorts, and Binaries).
Abidil’s stories don’t always skew political (although I love when they do), but they always have something to say. In A Hag, a Hex, a Tale of Redemption, Draco must come to terms with what it means to love someone, and how consent plays into that (does a lie negate consent?). Truth and love also play a role in When Times Are Dire, when Harry and Draco must pretend to marry to save the world. But is it pretend when they really are joining their lives and families together?
Beyond the deeper moral and ethical questions present in these stories, aibidil’s fic always manages to be creative and interesting. Abidil comes up with some of the most inventive sorts of magic (you really have to read her latest, Always Already, for one of the most thoughtful depictions of magical time travel I’ve ever read). Her premises can be angsty, like what if Astoria tells Scorpius—on her death bed no less—that he is actually Draco’s child with Harry (when by now and tree by leaf)? They can also be downright silly, like what if Draco can’t stop hiccoughing for days (Upside Down, Holding One’s Breath)? But one thing of which you can be certain: they’re never, ever boring.
They’re a master class in characterization
So, aibidil can dream up interesting, different, thought-provoking storylines, yes. But she also gets it right when it comes to characterization. Her Harry and Draco are always recognizable to me, no matter how evolved and changed they’ve become. There is something essential there, something true to the characters we know and love, that is ever present. And I think that’s because aibidil truly empathizes with and cares about her characters. This knack for getting in a character’s headspace means that aibidil is able to create some of the most fully formed, well rounded and realistically portrayed versions of Harry and Draco I’ve read. Whether it’s Harry in When Times are Dire enjoying the way his children sort of take his love for granted (because Harry wants that for them so badly, wants to be a constant, unquestioned source of support in their lives) or Draco in Always Already shoving down his snark in order to be as inoffensive as possible as a sort of penance for the war, you both recognize and feel for these characters. They’re flawed and imperfect, but they’re trying, and you love them for it.
There are moments in aibidil’s fic that leave me breathless because of how well they nail down the essence of a character in just a few words, or a single exchange or situation. For instance, in When Times Are Dire, Draco and Harry take a trip to the zoo and Draco buys Harry an absurdly enormous ice cream sundae after Harry recalls a time his aunt and uncle bought one for Dudley but not him. “Harry found himself at a loss for words,” aibidil writes. “He thought he’d worked through his childhood zoo issues. He’d been here so many times as an adult, without the abuse of the Dursleys. He had so many wonderful memories here, so many trips with his kids. But no one had ever bought Harry an ice cream before [emphasis mine].” The way Draco understands Harry, and the way he helps Harry to understand something about himself in such an everyday sort of scene is beautiful.
In Pure Imagination, Harry and Draco, experiencing depression after the war, are given a potion that allows them to tap into their imaginations completely, the way a child would. They have an excellent time on the potion together, imagining all sorts of things, including taking a trip to a Muggle skate park (together), which they agree to do at a later date. But afterward, Harry retreats and doesn’t go to the skate park (a decision that gives us incredible insight into the Harry of this story, come to think of it). In their joint trip to the counselor’s office later, Draco tells the counselor that imagination is dangerous because it opens people up to disappointment. “It’s smart that I don’t allow myself delusions like thinking I can somehow have a fulfilling career, even given my past,” he says. “It’s smart that I don’t allow myself the delusion of thinking Potter might want to spend time with me when he’s not high on a fucking imagination potion.”
And doesn’t this cut right to the heart of Draco? Whether he’s being cruel the way he was in canon, or being cool and indifferent, the way he is at the beginning of Pure Imagination, he is someone who struggles to believe in his own self-worth, and has found an entire arsenal’s worth of methods to hide this fact, even, sometimes, from himself.
They’re just so damn funny
And finally, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention one of the absolute best things about aibidil’s stories. Because on top of incredible storylines and beautiful character work, aibidil is fucking hilarious. I don’t think I’ve ever read through anything of hers without laughing out loud. Oftentimes, the humor is situational, like in When Times Are Dire when Harry and Draco tell their children that they’re in a relationship (when they’re actually not) and proceed to have one of the most awkward exchanges of all time with them, which leads to Harry clarifying that they are together ‘sexually’ (He says that. To his children.). Or in Auld Acquaintance, when Harry comes through the floo looking like a teenager and Draco finds himself torn between the ghost of attraction his own teenaged self had for this version of Harry and the fact that to his mature, grandfatherly eye, Harry looks “doughy…like an underbaked infant.” Or in Starve Your Distractions, Feed Your Focus, when a coupled-up Harry and Draco have to work out with a very sexy Neville, who is wearing joggers that leave little to the imagination.
Sometimes, though, the hilarity is in the form of amazing dialogue (her Harry and Draco banter is always top-tier) or of others’ observations of the Drarry dynamic, like when Neville says (in Always Already) this about Harry and Draco’s teasing of one another: “Don't mind them. It's like their little traumatised child-warrior foreplay or something.” Aibidil is always aware of the story she’s telling, and of the Drarry-ness of it all. These are not simple men, and theirs is never a typical, simple relationship, and you know what? That can be funny. As Harry says in When Times are Dire: "Ah yes. I'm a cheap date. All it takes to get me in bed is to almost kill each other, survive a war together, work together over decades, have children who fall in love and get married, get married for political reasons, pretend to be in love for two years to all friends and relatives, become grandparents together, and take a controlled substance to open up enough to tell each other the truth. That's all."
See? Easy.
Finally, I shouldn’t leave out the fact that aibidil’s acronyms are the best of all time (her most recent fic’s C.O.C.K. is my new favorite, but there are oodles of excellent ones).
Recommended For…
Everyone. Listen, if you enjoy laughing, or exciting and original storylines, or fic that makes you think, or fic that reveals the beating hearts of our favorite characters, aibidil’s catalog of work is for you. There is angst in places, there is smut in places, but that’s not really the point of her fic. The point is the journey, the character development, and the ridiculous amount of joy and energy contained in all of these stories. Here are a few you might want to check out, but honestly, you can’t go wrong with anything she’s written.
Top 3 Fics Over 25,000 Words (by kudos)
Dating for Dads in Denial (25k) - In which one wizard designs and another reluctantly patronises a magical matchmaking service, amidst the chaos of children and parenting.
when by now and tree by leaf (46k) - When Scorpius Malfoy is saying goodbye to his dying mother, he doesn't expect to hear her confess, "Your father slept with another man and became pregnant with you."
Moldova’s Magical Tea (32k) - Neville Longbottom, Luna Lovegood, and—to everyone’s surprise—Draco Malfoy are opening a magical tea shop to revive wizarding tea culture. Harry, who is unemployed and trying to find his way in post-war society, wants to help his friends with their new business—but that means spending a lot of time around Malfoy.
Top 3 Fics Under 25,000 Words (by kudos)
Back to You (8k) - The eighth years make Harry and Malfoy go head to head and back to back in a question-and-answer drinking game. The worst that can happen is they end up drunk, right?
The Usual (9k) - Harry finally tries the new magical coffee shop on Diagon Alley. A story in which Draco is Up To Something™ and Harry is going to get to the bottom of it, and to the bottom of that sixteen ounce to-go cup.
Beards, Booty Shorts, and Binaries (9k) - Harry was hoping for a quiet day at the office, but Hermione and Draco are waging a war on discrimination with beards and skirts.
Kbrick’s Picks (in order of obsession)
When Times Are Dire (130k) - Magical Britain is screwed, and it's once again up to Harry to save it. This time, by marrying Draco Malfoy.
Always Already (170k) - It's 2004: Harry teaches primary school and loves his job and friends; It's 1980: Harry has to fight Voldemort, again; It's 2004: Draco is a trainee Healer and reformed member of society; It's 1980: Draco has to face his father's cruelty; It's 2004: Harry and Draco definitely aren't lonely or depressed or traumatised; It's 1980: Harry and Draco listen to Kate Bush and watch Dallas and drive a 1979 Ford Cortina; It's 2004, it's 1980, it's...
Pure Imagination (15k) - An eighth-year tale of depressed happiness, reluctant imagination, and conflicted hope. And skateboarding.
.
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