On ur post abt how the promise showed katara flexing her- frankly amazing- diplomatic skills: How do you think they could have handled the Yu Dao story better if they'd ended the show with platonic kata.ang/ future zk endgame in mind??

Just since it's quite an interesting plot to explore, and katara has some good moments, but I think it got drowned by weird (ooc) writing choices. Zuko and Aang get hit by the idiot ball hard. Obviously there's the whole 'promise' drama (as if half the finale wasn't dedicated to aang refusing to kill a firelord under any circumstances), but also kata.ang moments like the Avatar-state talk down + katara's vision; not to mention the bits where they undermine zk's canon friendship (the infamous 'ur hurting me' panel and katara agreeing with /encouraging the promise at all.)

this is a great question and this made me think of one of my favourite ZK fics, Refraction by caroe3725, which has a great re- interpretation of Yu Dao!

I think if Katara was with Zuko even just as a trusted friend, he never would have been going to Ozai, which means the conflict would not have escalated to the extent where Zuko decides to play hardball and Kuei retaliates. Katara would have supported his pov that families shouldn’t be separated, while also being adamant that Earth Kingdom citizens deserve to not be second class citizens in their own home.

the biggest issue with the titular promise is that it puts them all in a situation where they’re fretting about whether to kill their friend, instead of the actual difficult question of how to be fair to the citizens of Yu Dao without forcibly separating families that now don’t belong in either FN or the EK. I imagine Katara still playing a mediator role between Zuko and Aang, but not in a way where she’s like…preventing a brawl. Instead, she would be leading negotiations on how to restructure the town so that the Fire Nation is no longer at the top of the hierarchy. I think it would likely still end with Yu Dao independence, but with a greater emphasis on Katara’s first reaction to Yu Dao (that there’s serious wealth inequality) and how the FN can be responsible for remediating it, probably in the form of reparations for social programs. Certainly that would make it into a boring political comic, but I happen to find that interesting!

I agree. I would never, ever trust Bryke to write Fire Lady Katara. Based on the milquetoast political allegories of Korra, I have no reason to believe it would be anything but a hot mess. I do think there’s some canonical basis in the idea that Katara would not play second fiddle to Zuko, because she doesn’t idealize him. She respects him, but she’s been mad at him and has seen him at his worst, so she doesn’t inherently believe that his judgement is superior to hers. (If she ended up with Haru, he wouldn’t have overshadowed her, so I think Harutara is the only pairing that would be safe in Bryke’s hands, moustache notwithstanding).

Because she was canonically paired with Aang and that relationship was central to her role in Korra, it’s hard to separate critiques of her arc from critiques of the ship, especially since she had shown some self-effacing tendencies in her relationship with Aang before they got together. I agree none of the women of ATLA got a good deal in their post ATLA arc.

Nothing about Ka/taang precludes Katara being Chief of the SWT…

which is why it pisses me off even more that Katara didn’t get to have a role of any political importance whatsoever. It wouldn’t change anything about LOK’s storyline, and it would be fully in line with her character.

There’s a common anti-Zutara argument that Katara wouldn’t want to be Fire Lady, because she would want to rebuild and lead her own culture. I am sympathetic to that. Based on her canon characteristics, she might want to be a United Republic Councilwoman, Chief of the SWT, or just generally the Waterbending Master / Matriarch of the her tribe, which would be easier (though not impossible) if she weren’t married to the sovereign of another nation — I get that.

but the thing is…she didn’t get to do any of that, even though “wife of the Avatar” doesn’t contradict those roles. All the things that would be difficult for her to do if she were married to Zuko, she still didn’t get to do as Aang’s wife. She didn’t get to have a career the way her husband, or her brother, or her friends did.

so it’s extra hypocritical when Ka/taang shippers are like “but being Fire Lady would disempower Katara!” when Ka/taang canonically disempowered her! And KA fans are fine with that: they bend over backwards to justify why Katara doesn’t have a statue, or why she wasn’t there to protect Korra from the Red Lotus, or why she wasn’t at Yakone’s bloodbending trial. Yeah she got to live in the SWT — eventually, I assume, because in the comics she just follows Aang around — but what else did she get to do? Fucking nothing, apparently. Because to some people, the greatest honour for a woman is to be the hero’s wife.

i have always wondered what happened behind the scenes between the show and and the comics. in the show, while s3 definitely relegated her to trophy for the main character to win in the end, she still was competent and her own person. the comics though? the writers actively hated her and it always felt like a very personal 'fuck you' from the writers to the (female) katara fans. there is such a huge difference in how they treated her, it still breaks my heart. she deserved so much better.

I think it’s telling that so many Katara fans take her post-ATLA lobotomy arc very personally. So many young girls loved her, looked up to her, saw her as the epitome of Girl Power TM because when ATLA was airing, that was the pinnacle of pop culture feminism. And that’s great, honestly, because she’s an amazing role model.

Let’s not forget that ATLA, despite its all-ages appeal, is a franchise for children. Unlike adult media, children’s media should have morals, and role models, and aspirational narratives. Katara is more than a fictional character: she’s a fictional character carrying the burden of not only representation, but aspiration. We want girls to look up to Katara and relate to her and put themselves in her shoes (and that’s why I never got the “self insert” argument wrt Zutara — if girls relate enough to Katara that they want to be like her, and shipping Zutara is a manifestation of that, how is that a problem?). We want girls to stand up for what’s right, to be brave, to embrace their own power and their agency. Which is what happened in most of the original ATLA, like you said.

and that’s why Katara’s later arc is such a slap in the face, because here’s a fictional character that so many girls looked up to…and now the narrative is going to relegate her to, what, a girl who follows her bf around and never does anything of note? A woman whose biggest contributions to the world happened when she was fourteen? A woman who begins to inexplicably take the backseat, again and again, whether it’s supporting her friends or maintaining world peace or even just making sure some groupies don’t hit on her boyfriend?

To be clear, I don’t give a fuck about the “what about the children!!!!” argument for most media, because most of it is just pearl clutching and purity politics, but children’s media is the one place where actually, you should ask, what message are we sending to the children? And apparently the answer here is “fuck you girls, no matter how accomplished and cool you were, you get married and have children and never do anything of note again. Leading a country? Saving people? Forget about it!”

Zutara or not, it’s crazy that katara doesn’t end up having any kind of political role or influence whatsoever. and you would expect to when visiting the water tribes, that a lot of places would honor her name

Right? I’ve ranted before about how Katara would make a killer diplomat and I cannot believe that her conflict avoidant husband and her tactless friend had greater political influence than she did. I simply refuse. The ATLA comics make it blatantly clear that the Avatar and the Fire Lord are dumbasses, and Katara is the one who has to be the voice of reason. And don’t get me started on how Sokka, who is more of a strategist / general than a ruler, somehow had time to both be Chief of the SWT and be a United Republic Councilman, which presumably require him to be in two places at the same goddamn time? Why couldn’t Katara have gotten to be one of the two? Especially since presiding over a nation or representing your people are extremely different skill sets than keeping track of a schedule and planning an invasion. Listening to your people and making decisions to benefit them is Katara’s wheelhouse. And to top that off, she was the last Southern Waterbender. Give the girl an ice fountain or something smh.

Anyway some people just hate to see female characters succeed because “women aren’t always girlbosses!” Well in the context of a children’s show, I’d prefer an unrealistic girlboss over a female character who’s stripped of all her ambitions and power, okay?

Nothing about Ka/taang precludes Katara being Chief of the SWT…

which is why it pisses me off even more that Katara didn’t get to have a role of any political importance whatsoever. It wouldn’t change anything about LOK’s storyline, and it would be fully in line with her character.

There’s a common anti-Zutara argument that Katara wouldn’t want to be Fire Lady, because she would want to rebuild and lead her own culture. I am sympathetic to that. Based on her canon characteristics, she might want to be a United Republic Councilwoman, Chief of the SWT, or just generally the Waterbending Master / Matriarch of the her tribe, which would be easier (though not impossible) if she weren’t married to the sovereign of another nation — I get that.

but the thing is…she didn’t get to do any of that, even though “wife of the Avatar” doesn’t contradict those roles. All the things that would be difficult for her to do if she were married to Zuko, she still didn’t get to do as Aang’s wife. She didn’t get to have a career the way her husband, or her brother, or her friends did.

so it’s extra hypocritical when Ka/taang shippers are like “but being Fire Lady would disempower Katara!” when Ka/taang canonically disempowered her! And KA fans are fine with that: they bend over backwards to justify why Katara doesn’t have a statue, or why she wasn’t there to protect Korra from the Red Lotus, or why she wasn’t at Yakone’s bloodbending trial. Yeah she got to live in the SWT — eventually, I assume, because in the comics she just follows Aang around — but what else did she get to do? Fucking nothing, apparently. Because to some people, the greatest honour for a woman is to be the hero’s wife.

no matter whether ppl are trying to make zk's canon relationship out to be sibling coded or associative friends or whatever else ppl make up i feel it all comes from this place of people that don't ship it being unable to handle zuko and katara's canonically deep and intimate friendship at the end of show without (whether subconsciously or not) perceiving it as some kind of threat to whatever katara or zuko ship they DO ship (usually either k/a or z/s or m/z)

they don't know how to acknowledge/write zk (and i don't think them being a m/f ship is divorced from this) having their canonically close friendship alongside whatever they ship because that closeness, no matter how platonic, can't supersede the romance of their own ship. so they just lazily write it off as "siblings" or convince themselves they weren't ever that close in the first place or that katara still secretly hates zuko or something in order to get out of the bind of allowing them to be close friends even if you ship them with other people 🤷‍♀️

Nothing about Ka/taang precludes Katara being Chief of the SWT…

which is why it pisses me off even more that Katara didn’t get to have a role of any political importance whatsoever. It wouldn’t change anything about LOK’s storyline, and it would be fully in line with her character.

There’s a common anti-Zutara argument that Katara wouldn’t want to be Fire Lady, because she would want to rebuild and lead her own culture. I am sympathetic to that. Based on her canon characteristics, she might want to be a United Republic Councilwoman, Chief of the SWT, or just generally the Waterbending Master / Matriarch of the her tribe, which would be easier (though not impossible) if she weren’t married to the sovereign of another nation — I get that.

but the thing is…she didn’t get to do any of that, even though “wife of the Avatar” doesn’t contradict those roles. All the things that would be difficult for her to do if she were married to Zuko, she still didn’t get to do as Aang’s wife. She didn’t get to have a career the way her husband, or her brother, or her friends did.

so it’s extra hypocritical when Ka/taang shippers are like “but being Fire Lady would disempower Katara!” when Ka/taang canonically disempowered her! And KA fans are fine with that: they bend over backwards to justify why Katara doesn’t have a statue, or why she wasn’t there to protect Korra from the Red Lotus, or why she wasn’t at Yakone’s bloodbending trial. Yeah she got to live in the SWT — eventually, I assume, because in the comics she just follows Aang around — but what else did she get to do? Fucking nothing, apparently. Because to some people, the greatest honour for a woman is to be the hero’s wife.

But Daddy I Love Him / Her

Hello! I'm obsessed with your bio. Yeah go girl!! Statistically average Tumblr users rock!!!! (I'm one too)

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US!!! DOZENS! I never got into the other social media sites (except Reddit, but there’s a lot of casual meanness on Reddit that I don’t vibe with) because I just felt like they weren’t really for me. Then I got back on Tumblr after like a decade of not using it, and I was like ohhhhh I’m like literally very normal here. Once a Tumblr girlie always a Tumblr girlie

bedtime

More zutara 😬

They invented the sunshine x moody gf dynamic 💕💕

i luv them your honor,,,

Every time I think about The Southern Raiders when Katara bloodbends now I imagine Zuko getting flustered and thinking something along the lines "she REALLY could end me if she wanted" and spending days trying to figure out why he thought it was hot.

He eventually told that to Sokka after they defeated Ozai and Sokka was just like "lol yeah same, Suki whooped my ass when we met and I fell in love"

Hey! So, I just need some help understanding something... I heard that people think that Zuko took Katara straight to Ember Island after TSR. I missed it on my rewatch, and I don't get where this interpretation comes from, and whether it is just a headcanon. Do you happen, by chance, to know more about that? I LOVE this tidbit by the way; I just don't know where it's coming from. Sorry if this is random.

Oh I’ve heard that before! From what I’ve seen, it’s based primarily on the visuals we see of the settings. Before leaving to find Yon Rha, everyone is camped out on this island:

It appears to be a small, uninhabited island (which makes sense if they’re in hiding) so clearly not Ember Island.

Then at the end, the final scene begins with Katara here:

This is definitely Zuko’s family home on Ember Island, with Katara sitting alone on the pier. In the second screenshot you can see Appa flying in.

Now here is the interesting part:

Zuko and Aang get off of Appa, and if you squint, it kind of looks like the others are in the saddle too. Based on the conversation that follows, it’s clear that this is the first time Aang has seen Katara since she left to confront Yon Rha.

So the implication here is that Zuko and Katara first went to Ember Island alone, then Zuko flew with Appa by himself to pick up everyone else from the other island. This actually makes a lot of sense logistically, because without Appa, everyone else had no way of getting to Ember Island from wherever they were before.

I really like this theory (and I think based on the evidence it’s pretty much canon) because it shows there are a lot of missing scenes between Zuko and Katara. It makes sense. He was the only one there to comfort her after something so traumatic. I love the idea that he thought to bring her to a place that was special to him, hoping to find her comfort. Then I’m guessing she wanted some alone time and he left her to go get the others.

I think it’s very sweet, to think about that time they spent together and what they talked about ❤️

Aang’s character arc is like if Zuko was like hey I don’t have my firebending anymore like he did in canon

except they never did anything about it and the show was like it’s fine you can just use swords from here on out not a problem

and he still just accepts the agni kai against Azula you know a firebending duel

and then Zuko wins it because Azula happened to shove him into a pillar and he magically has his firebending back without learning anything about firebending from the dragons like the origin or meaning behind it

and then instead of Katara using a literal physical chain to restrain her, Zuko is like actually I got this super magic rope from a giant frog when we were flying over the ocean we can use to bind her

and then he still becomes firelord after all that bullshit and everyone acts like that was a great way to end his character arc

that’s Aang’s arc