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tobi-smp · 3 years

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c!Quackity canonically doesn’t fucking know about exile, he wants the revive book and that’s why he was torturing him.

Context: [Link 1, Link 2] And more specifically, this paragraph: "it was While he was trying to throw tommy in that prison that he was imprisoned himself. it was what he did to tommy that caused quackity and the warden to start torturing him. that’s Why it has narrative weight in the context of dream’s imprisonment arc, it’s what Lead to it, it’s a thematic through line that Keeps being reemphasized." [End transcription.]

I have no intention of arguing with people determined to boil quackity down to a one note villain, but this is a point that I've thought about a lot.

here's the truth that a lot of dream apologists don't like acknowledging: it's Both true that no one deserves to be tortured And that dream's actions lead him to the position that he's in now.

lets start from the beginning and work our way out shall we?

1: quackity is well aware of tommy's exile Actually. he doesn't know the extent of what happened, but dream forcing tommy's exile is Exactly what put him on the hit list. quackity Completely recognized that dream was bending l'manberg to his will, that he was being unfair. and it was Because of the power that he was exerting over l'manberg that quackity identified him as a threat (quackity wasn't there for the revolution, he didn't even know about the disc exchange until he was told).

nobody Made dream exile tommy, george hadn't even known that's what dream was trying to do and he'd accepted the probation as punishment enough at the time (there's a very good break down of george's involvement with the trial here [Link]). dream put a target on his own head by doing this, and he didn't care because he didn't see the new l'manberg cabinet as a threat.

2: dream's arrest was entirely his own fault, point blank. he didn't have to destroy l'manberg, he made the choice to because he didn't think anyone could stop him (and they couldn't at the time). he didn't have to commission a massive prison, he chose to, designing the living conditions and rules himself. he didn't have build an attachments museum and fill it with people's possessions (and skeppy) in order to try to control them, he Chose to do it. he didn't have to send tommy a message inviting him to confront him about the discs with tubbo at a specific place and time, he chose to do it. he didn't have to try to kill tubbo and imprison tommy (presumably Literally forever with the use of the revival book), he Chose To Do That.

dream would not have been arrested if he didn't go out of his way to do terrible things to people. he would not have been arrested if he didn't build the prison that held him.

3: quackity wasn't aware of everything that'd happened in exile, but he Is perfectly aware that something bad happened and he Is angry on tommy's behalf. he Canonically visited tommy, wherein he saw tommy's depression and suicide ideation first hand. He doesn't know what dream is Doing to tommy in exile, but he's well aware of tommy's Mental State in exile, and that dream was a factor in it somehow. [Link 1, Link 2]

then during doomsday dream chose to gloat to tommy on top of the obsidian grid, saying Unashamedly that he destroyed l'manberg because it was fun, that he never intended to stop hurting tommy because He was fun [Link]. quackity was there to hear that, he was there to mourn what dream had done, he comforted ghostbur tommy and tubbo in the aftermath, he told tommy not to trust anyone to protect him (poor advice considering how things would go down, but a clear indication that he Cared about tommy) [Link]

and then of course, the big one that gets its own bullet points

4a: quackity started torturing dream In Response To Tommy's Death, Undeniably So. even if you want to boil quackity down to a one note villain (which dream apologists are very prone to do) This Is Still True.

quackity Originally tried to convince sam to kill dream in the aftermath of tommy's death. no matter how you interpret quackity's motivations, it was sam's guilt Over having let tommy die that almost ended with dream dead (and it was sam's duty to keep dream alive For Tommy because he had the revival book that made him stop).

quackity Wanted Dream Dead before he wanted to take the revival book from him, and this was Explicitly in the aftermath of tommy's death. dream was kept alive during the disc war finale Solely because he had access to the revival book, that is the only reason why he is not already dead. quackity started torturing dream to get the book So That There'd Be No Reason To Keep Dream Alive Anymore. So That They Could Kill Him. and sam Let Him Do That Because Dream Murdered Tommy.

if dream hadn't killed tommy, if dream hadn't Explicitly told sam about how he'd abused tommy in exile, then sam would not have allowed quackity to break the rules. he would not have allowed quackity to Either murder or torture him. which means that dream's actions Lead To his torture Regardless of quackity's motivations.

4b: I'm actually tired of people pretending that quackity isn't deeply emotionally invested in the people that he cares about. quackity and tommy are Friends and have been since he joined the server. quackity was Deeply emotionally affected by tommy's death. we saw him react to the news, the hurt clear in his voice and the way that he shut down afterwards. [Link] we saw him try to Kill Dream in the aftermath of tommy's death. we saw him first overjoyed at tommy's revival and second Furious on tommy's behalf when tommy opened up to him about what he'd experienced.

quackity was There when dream was arrested, he was There when dream said he had the revival book. and yet he didn't do anything about it, made no indication of even wanting it, Until Tommy Had Been Killed. quackity is not a robot, he's not emotionless. he cares So Very Deeply about the people who are important to him, and it's ridiculous to me that some people deny this. that they deny that he went as far as he did with dream because he Cares about the people that dream hurt.

nobody deserves torture, but dream would not be in the position that he's in if he hadn't hurt people.

#dream smp #dreamwastaken #quackity #tommyinnit #awesamdude #exile arc #prison arc #torture #suicide ideation #death #c!dream critical #discourse #meta #long post

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relaxxattack · 3 years

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hi im asking u this bc u seem to be bee duo enthusiast so

ive been calling c! beeduos relationship platonic because i thought that was what their cc’s said, and i thought they had said that they were uncomfortable with ppl shipping the characters. But ive seen a lot of posts that say their relationship is canonically romantic? and i absolutely do not want to come across as homophobic by watering down a mlm relationship to just friends because that happens so much in media so.

what is the canon state of their relationship / ur opinions on the platonic thibg

dont worry abt answering if u dont want to!! i see a lot of differing opinions and i trust yours :)

aw it’s totally fine, im flattered you asked me about this!

let me put it simply: it’s a whole mess, lol.

first im going to talk about what’s happened fandom-wide that caused differing opinions, and then i’ll explain my own opinion/interpretation. :]

(this got really fucking long im so sorry)

ranboo and tubbo initially proclaimed the relationship was romantic, specifically in argument with the wiki editors who had set it as platonic by default. (you can see this in the vod where they decide they’re canonically married— it’s very funny. chat tells them the marriage is already on the wiki, they check, tubbo is jokingly offended that it says platonic and asks if he needs to up the romance).

tubbo also makes jokes about adultry, which sort of implies the relationship is not necessarily a platonic one.

(theres definetly more in that stream alone but it’s been a long time since i watched it so i don’t remember a lot of it.)

the wiki, because of this, suffers from going back and forth on platonic and romantic, seemingly unsure where the joke ends and the canon begins, or if its canonically a joke! a mess, as you can already tell.

this gets more complicated as the marriage bit goes on: outsiders, such as phil and scott, both at one point say “platonic marriage”, which then ranboo and tubbo agree with. however, when chat asks them if they’re platonic, they say the opposite. so there is a lot of confusion there.

there’s also the difficulty of being able to tell streamers and characters apart. ranboo and tubbo both don’t like being shipped irl, and that’s their boundaries that shouldn’t be crossed. (they’re also minors, but tbh when they’re 18 in a year i will still be following their boundaries regardless of their legal age).

due to people not wanting to be accused of minor shipping, they started adding the platonic tone indicator to most of their drawings— basically a way of saying “no homo”. meanwhile, tubbo frequently on stream flirts with ranboo and makes quite a bit of nsfw comments towards him that are frankly hilarious.

this goes on for a while with nobody really sure what’s canon, but a lot of people assuming it’s probably platonic, until: the drama of the mods night. a few mods dmed all the wiki editors telling them ranboo wanted his canon character relationship officially set to platonic.

unfortunately for those mods; the very same day, a few hours later, ranboo on stream makes fun of puffy delivering him and tubbo “friendship flowers”. because, and i quote, “bruh. we’re literally married. this must be how the ancient greeks felt.”

in case you don’t know, the internet often jokes about how historians will call ancient greeks ‘very good friends’ when they are quite obviously gay. so in this context, ranboo is joking that people will call him and c!tubbo, who are married, “close friends”, when he doesn’t think they are.

basically, ranboo canonized romantic bee duo, the very same day the mods told everyone he’d wanted a platonic one.

chaos and drama immediately erupted everywhere. on tumblr, we were talking about how weird it was of his mods to do something like that without asking him first. we ALSO talked about how weird it was of them to assume that ranboo can’t make his own decisions, or assume teenagers cannot be in relationships without it being sexual. twitter did the same thing but in the opposite direction: called ranboo mods homophobic, or said they were mad ranboo felt pressured into making a romantic relationship canon ‘just so people could have mlm rep.’

i dont want to go into detail about the drama that happened that night because apparently official people follow me and i dont want to stir it up or have them come “clarify” things. im just saying what we talked about.

ranboo in typical ranboo fashion apologized quickly and seriously. he was deeply sorry for possibly offending anyone with how he’d portrayed his rp relationship with tubbo, and he also assured everyone the mod thing was just a miscommunication.

he said he would talk to tubbo and they’d decide once and for all whether it was platonic or romantic, and then announce so everyone would know.

it’s now been a few months and we've had no word from them on that development. we still have no clue.

now, here’s my opinion:

i want to take ranboos word for it that it was a miscommunication with his mods, but... we had it on good authority from people on the wiki team and people in the discord with the mods that (while it was happening) they were really going after the wiki admins, and also made some weird comments about it. that combined with the way ranboo seemingly had no clue (considering he canonized their romance that very same day).... it’s very. sus of the mods.

then there’s the canon we’ve got since then. although occasionally adults in the room have called it a “platonic marriage” and tubbo once (back when it first started) called it a “plankton tectonic” marriage, in roleplay it’s been... kind of not that. tubbo and ranboo make nsfw jokes about each other in character, and their characters also share a master bedroom and bed in the mansion. there's also the way c!tommy really thinks it’s a romance between them as well, and they agree with and play off that— for instance confirming that they “fell in love” when he asked, or ranboo confirming that they “make out on occasion”.

people will still put platonic on their art and posts, imo, because they’re worried about breaking ranboo and tubbo’s irl boundaries by looking like they ship them. or even just being accused of shipping real life minors. and that’s a valid fear to have.

the thing is though: c!bee duo are not cc!bee duo. they’re roleplay characters. cc!bee duo are not okay with being shipped, but they made their characters get canonically married, and call each other “husbands”. so it’s okay to write the word “husband” in your comic without adding “platonic” to it, i promise.

telling the ccs that their characters have to be platonic is... weird. it comes off as not only babying them, but also as saying teens can’t date without it being gross. which isn’t true.

(this is why seeing people overuse “platonic husband” so much bothers me. like, they ARE husbands. you can just say it. what are you trying to hide...?)

do i think they’re canonically romantic? ehh, its likely. it’s still okay to interpret them as platonic, because again, it’s hard to tell where jokes end and roleplay begins. like, maybe it’s jokes in the rp too, and c!bee duo are just friends. friends can and should be allowed to make jokes like that with each other! aro & ace marriages exist!

or, maybe it’s actually part of the rp, and they’re very much romantic. we don’t know!

some people say they could be a qpr (queerplatonic romance), which i could see. (a qpr is a relationship that fluctuates between, or can’t quite be sorted into, “romantic” and “platonic”. people in a qpr can do romantic things while having platonic feelings for each other). in my opinion this is a very valid interpretation as well!

CONCLUSION (sorry this got so long omfg):

are c!bee duo romantic?

its likely, but you can still interpret them however you like!

should i put /p on bee duo content?

ehhh? i find it annoying when it’s overused (as do others), but if you’re worried you can. its up to preference. putting it too much is weird though

should i put /p on things cc! bee duo do?

no. you’re not the one saying it so you can’t decide the tone tags for that. imagine you said something to your friend and a random stranger came up and was like “haha but that was /p right...?”

can i ship c!bee duo?

mmm. i’m not sure on this one. they are canonically married and very flirtatious, but the ccs don’t like being shipped and they’re close enough to being the ccs that actively shipping might be against boundaries.

can i treat c!bee duo as romantic?

yes. literally just don’t be weird about it. it’s not that hard! you can understand that two characters are husbands without making it weird

here’s the most important thing: boundaries. cc bee duo still haven’t told us what their preferences and canon is about this whole thing.

right now, i am assuming based on what they already show us they’re comfortable with, but! the second they give us any more info! all these opinions will change!

i am only going off what they do. i would never want to cross boundaries at all. i just wish they would make theirs a little more clear.

..... i hope that helped anon, i went way off the rails... i need to go to sleep.

#it’s late im so sorry for how much i rambled and wrote #i hope this helps you #bee duo #og post #there’s probably so many spelling errors i need to go to bed #i tried to fix some spelling so reblog this one ig #and not the old one

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embermc · 3 years

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It’s really once again hitting me that c!Fundy has basically no one. He’s surrounded by people, yes, but he’s still incredibly alone. He has absolutely no one, really.

The Butcher Army split up and left him with very few friends. Niki, the person he thought he could run away with, his campaign partner, the person whose pet he fought an entire war for, abandoned society and slipped into a mental health spiral, saying that she no longer trusted him. Schlatt, somebody he looked up to despite eventually not liking, died of a heart attack in front of him. Ranboo, one of his dearest friends, caught Fundy while Fundy was in a mental health spiral and distanced himself for his own safety, not ever really speaking to Fundy again. Wilbur, his father, the man who promised to protect him and at least showed him some form of love, left everyone behind and died. Phil, the last living family member that Fundy has left, disowned him and rarely even wants to associate with him. c!Fundy is painfully, and sadly, completely alone. He has acquaintances, but nobody left to really look out for him, or care for him, or give him the sense of love from an authority figure that he craves. Everyone else has best friends, or even family members. c!Fundy has nobody.

And yes, some of this can somewhat be attributed to Fundy’s own actions, whether intentionally harmful or not. He verbally disowned Wilbur, who was already close to breaking, and this played a large part in Wilbur’s spiral that eventually lead to him hating Fundy (although Fundy didn’t intend for it to). He pretended to do a lot of pretty bad and hurtful things as a spy, and although he had good intentions, he was most likely too young, naive and new to spying to see how this could alienate those he cared about from him. And although he wasn’t doing the best mentally at the time, his speeches and words his about plans freaked out Ranboo a lot, and Ranboo distanced himself for his own safety (which Ranboo is totally justified in doing, just to make clear). But despite all of this, the fact that c!Fundy is so alone is such a tragedy. Yes, he made mistakes, but his relationships were usually destroyed by a large amount of miscommunication rather than anything he did himself, He’s still canonically pretty young, and very naive in nature. He usually wanted what he thought was best for everyone, even if he was often mistaken or incorrect. And he was still failed by a large amount of authority/guardian figures. I don’t want to excuse some of c!Fundy’s more hurtful actions, but regardless of what he did, he was still hurt by many, and he still was abandoned by many.

c!Fundy has barely anybody to rely on, or lean on, now. And we know that c!Fundy is a character who very much craves the support and affection of family or guardian figures. Right now, he thinks that he has nobody there for him.

Which brings me to this point: Since c!Fundy has nobody, he’s going to be actively looking or searching for somebody to lean on, somebody to care about him, somebody to give him external love and support as a friend. And we know that Fundy’s lore is most likely going to be linked to somebody else’s, somebody else who, in the past, has been a friend to Fundy, came to Fundy FIRST about their new Butcher Army plan, and has many shared experiences with Fundy...Quackity. Quackity and Fundy have A LOT of history. They were in Schlatt’s cabinet together, Fundy was the first person Quackity told about the Butcher Army, they were in Tubbo’s cabinet together, and they usually had pretty similar ideologies and goals.

We know that, in the future, c!Fundy is apparently going to be trusting somebody, joining somebody, that he shouldn’t be joining, despite how nice it would initially sound to join them. What if, one day, for whatever reason, Quackity offers Fundy a business deal? A deal that involves them working together, accomplishing a goal together. And, of course, after having nobody for so long, Fundy sees an opportunity to have somebody to trust and to rely on again, to have a companion again. Regardless of whatever nefarious motives said companion may or may not actually have...Fundy has to trust him, after all, he finally has somebody, right?

Just a thought.

#dream smp #dsmp #fundy #itsfundy #c!fundy #quackity #c!quackity #quackityhq #c!ranboo #c!wilbur soot #tw death #tw abandonment #/rp

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ruby-whistler · 3 years

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(Just for time- any name I refer in here is all character unless specified!)

Nah, cause I'm convinced that the vault was 100% a set up and there's so much that is just left unexplained that proves that:

The Elevator

The Polished Blackstone room

The Gold/highly lit stand for the discs

The enderportal

The attachments

The Avenger's Endgame bullshit at the end

Ranboo

(1) - I don't know why, but this was one of the bigger ones to annoy the hell out of me as to why it looked so complicated. Dream- as far as I remember- hasn't had that many creations with such complex machinery/redstone engineering. Even more so to the extent of making an elevator that can function going up and down with a platform big enough to fit multiple people on.

(1) - Not only that, but we never even got to see the inner workings of the redstone itself- it may seem like an unnecessary detail, but as far as I'm aware, not many people are able to make redstone this complex in order to properly function as an elevator (in Minecraft terms). Dream just doesn't seem to fit within that category because- again, as far as I'm aware- the most complicated redstone device he's made has been the doomsday one, and even then, it wasn't even that complicated- nowhere near the level enough to make an entire elevator by himself.

(2) - Maybe it's because of the amount of times I've seen Dream login to the server and how infrequent it had been in the past, but I don't see how Dream could mine up so much Polished Blackstone, especially to use in this specific purpose. Dream doesn't even have many structures to his name, even his own base doesn't even have any materials that could suggest he would need extra Blackstone for. If it had been made out of obsidian, I could believe it considering all that material had been used for walls around L'Manburg. (Plus, it's been confirmed by the CCs that creative mode is barely used as is, so this makes mining this much Blackstone/Polished Backstone make even less sense.)

(2) - I feel like this is strongly indicated with how much Ranboo had been supposedly mining at the time and had a ridiculously low durability on his tool set so often, sure he could be mining for something totally unrelated, but if that were the case- why would he be so "unaware" of why his tools are so low to begin with?

(3) - Now this is where the bullshit meter starts kicking higher. Why would Dream display the real discs so proudly and in such a gaudy manner, especially when it functionally served no purpose? Not even the walls he had around L'Manburg or the obsidian grid were as flashy. Gold floors, bright lights, the portraits of the discs side to side by the very clear escape portal™, hell, they were even positioned to be directly in front of the elevator so that Tommy and Tubbo would first notice them and would try to run for them. AND THERE WERE TWO ENDERCHESTS RIGHT NEXT TO THE PORTALS AND THE DISCS.

(3) - What kind of Saturday cartoon evil villain™ leaves such an obvious flaw, even when taking into account that Dream is supposedly a strategist? What kind of strategic mastermind would leave an interdimentional chest that could potentially have back up gear and various other items to assist his enemies out in the open like that especially next to a portal where they could easily escape? Not even Jack Manifold would make such an oversight like that.

(4) - The placements of the portal and where Dream, Tommy, and Tubbo all stopped off at the end of Dream's grandiose speech were all much to convenient/coincidental. It was like it was choreographed so that when Dream was specifically away for the duo, Punz and whoever else would be able to step in and "separate/rescue" the two from the big bad Dream despite the fact that Dream could've easily killed the two if he really wanted to by being near and crit'ing them out.

(4) - Plus, the portal was already lit. Which leads directly to where they would've been. Again, from a strategic standpoint that makes no god damn sense. Why leave an obvious portal out in the open like this so that your enemies could try and come and find the people you're trying to supposedly kill?

(5) - Oh yeah, but the bullshit alarm is blaring. Albeit with a bit of wavering doubt, I thought that the attachments room was the most solid part of the plan, at least, if we're going with the mindset that Dream's ultimate goal was to take control of attachments, force everyone to be friends/unified again, and achieve his ultimate goal of peace and unity on the server. But as I thought more on it, some of the attachments... Don't make sense for Dream to know.

(5) - How did Dream know about someone having an attachment that was bedrock? How did Dream know about Punz's shulker box? (I know Drista gave it to him and cc!Dream was there for that, but canonically it makes no sense.) Why did Dream specifically think that Enderchest was Ranboo's only primary attachment? How did Dream know about Dogchamp despite Purpled and him never properly meeting in canon?

(5) - Sure Dream could've gone snooping around and managed to find out, but some of these attachments he doesn't even properly know of unless he had to walk up to someone and be like: So hey, what are you emotionally attached to that would make you utterly destroyed when it's gone? :D

(6) - How in the ever loving fuck did everyone manage to get there?

(6) - This one is clear that Punz lead the charge on this one, but why did everyone flat out believe him? Beforehand, everyone was deadset on staying back, regardless if it was on Tommy and Tubbo's word. But Punz? Alone? He managed to convince everyone? Even if they had a neutral opinion on Dream, to go with him to the vault to rescue the two? Nobody questioned how he even knew about where the portal to the vault is, or that it even had a portal? Nobody? Not a single soul? Or how nobody even questioned how Punz knew that Dream had taken the two down there and didn't just send them off into their own exile?

(7) - Ranboo rarely ever metas about the lore. Unlike most CCs in the DSMP, cc!Ranboo has a particular way of making sure that chat doesn't spoil him on plot points going on, so I highly doubt he would "accidentally" recite Dream's speech, word for word, bar for bar in a room he hadn't even been in yet. Nor even was there for (it's heavily hinted that Enderwalk was present during the confrontation instead). Plus, although it was confirmed unintentional by the CCs later on, Ranboo and Dream were both staring at each other, and I don't think it was to keep him in place- considering Enderwalk went to go visit Dream as often as he could before his ban and Enderwalk seemed to be on good terms with Dream even before the whole Doomsday Era.

Nah, the whole confrontation makes no sense, even down to the cherrypicking examples of it all. If it somehow gets confirmed that the confrontation wasn't staged and that Dream was somehow this cocky, I won't make a fuss, but I'm not gonna be entirely too thrilled at the idea.

But contrary to popular belief, I don't think Dream did this with only Punz or Enderwalk, I think those three were the main ones to set up this whole thing, but considering the redstone and the attachments that Dream wasn't supposed to know of. I don't know, but something about that screams like there was one other involved, the question is- who would also help Dream like Punz or Enderwalk too?

This one is an old one, but I absolutely agree. The Disc War finale is, with all due respect, either egregious writing with no character continuity in the slightest, or c!Dream faked the whole thing. It's way too suspicious not to be obvious. That's a banger analysis.

#my asks #anon #*an old one as in an old ask #dsmp analysis #anon is genius #c!dream #dream smp #dreblr

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systematicmasspoisoning · 3 years

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Who is Sam's prison for?

If you're not up to date in DreamSMP lore, Awesamdude, resident Redstone expert, was paid stacks of diamonds by Dream to make an inescapable prison. It is located in the ocean next to Bad and Skeppy's mansion and is VERY large. Supposedly it will be using Elder Guardians to keep a prisoner from mining out due to Mining Fatigue. Even if the prisoner dies of hunger, they will respawn inside. This brings up the question of how

1. they force the prisoner to click a bed inside the prison

2. how they keep the prisoner from breaking the bed.

Regardless of the mechanics of the second one, I think the first is a clue as to who Dream will trap inside the prison. Consider the 3 canon deaths lore. He has used the threat of permanently killing Tommy to get the boy to comply and click on a bed in Logstedshire. So a 'permanent death if you don't comply' is definitely an effective tactic but ONLY for people with one life left.

The main two options are Tommy and Tubbo (or Philza). Or, Dream is planning on knocking another one of his potential opponents, such as Quackity, Fundy or Techno, down to one life in the time it takes to build the actual prison.

Quackity and Fundy aren't big enough threats yet, although Quackity certainly has the potential to be a threat, in this season of the SMP, El Rapids isn't big enough of a threat yet.

Most people would assume Dream's biggest enemies on the server are Tommy and Techno. Techno's role in the grand scheme of things is, as of now, undetermined. However, as Techno is one of the authors of this SMP season, he likely has something up his sleeve. He is currently 'retired' alongside Phil in their Antarctic Empire skins in a snowy biome, but he has made appearances in Tommy's streams to mock the boy for getting exiled (just like Techno predicted with the Theseus analogy.) An alliance between the sleepbois is possibly in the works, but right now, both Tommy and Techno have made it clear there is still a lot of animosity between them. So I don't see Techno, and by extension, Phil becoming much of a problem for Dream (for now.)

Tommy, on the other hand, has been visited by Dream almost every stream while Tommy is exiled; Tommy has been manipulated by him, gaslighted and threatened. Despite making the very real threat of giving Tommy his final death, Dream has stopped Tommy from any, um, self-harming actions. Dream told him "I need you alive." Narratively, that means that Dream has plans for Tommy (they are, after all, each other's main antagonist). But Dream has also said that Tommy will remain on exile for a long time and he told Bad and Sam as they were building the prison that he doesn't intend on using the prison on Tommy (unless he begins to act up was implied.)

Because Bad and Sam (and Eret) are working with Dream, I would assume imprisoning anyone from the Badlands is out of the question. But I think it's interesting how Sam is the primary leader of the building project.

Dream said that Sam is the only one who will totally know the ins and outs of the prison. So that possibly means Sam is the only one who would know how to escape the inescapable prison. The interesting thing about Sam being included in this storyline is his connections. He and Tubbo are very close, and Sam is also friends with Tommy. Its not long of a stretch to assume that Sam's storyline might eventually lead to HIM breaking out whoever Dream imprisons. Tommy, for now, is out of the equation, so who does that leave?

Tubbo. Someone who many people are now considering Dream's puppet. Dream has been laying on the manipulation lately, playing chess with him, complimenting him and trying to increase the wedge between Tubbo and Tommy. You would think Tubbo is safe, so long as he remains pacifistic and continues to make decisions that are to Dream's benefit. But there are things going beyond the scenes that we, the audience, need to consider. The script.

Symbolism and chekov's guns have been sprinkled into the story line for a long time, and it feels as though the roleplayers have upped the ante. It's hard to think about Ghostbur' compasses without crying, but I literally can't stop thinking about what they mean. When it comes to the duo, despite their estrangement, Tommy still considers Tubbo one of the most important things in his life. He placed the "Your Tubbo" compass right beside his discs in his enderchest. Meanwhile, Tubbo held his "Your Tommy" compass in his offhand nearly all stream today. They still care for each other, obviously, but think about one of the reasons Tubbo exiled Tommy in the first place.

He felt like Tommy was choosing the discs over everything else. He felt as though the discs were the only thing Tommy cared about. There has to be a resolution to this. It's been shown by the story that the discs and Tommy's other obligations (L'manberg, his friendships) cannot coexist together for long without it driving a wedge between them.

Tubbo has been streaming more Among Us lobbies and modded Minecraft lately. When he comes onto the server, he nearly has nothing to do. He loves big project and building houses, but as of now, Tubbo has so little materials to even bother making a home and his largest project, the ocean monument, has been placed on the backburner while Sam builds the prison. Its almost....its almost like Tubbo is preparing his audience and for a period of time where he has no reason to be on the SMP. If he's imprisoned, that's not very good content to watch, is it? I also noticed that Dream pointedly did NOT tell Tubbo about the prison today, instead referred to it merely as a 'project.'

My biggest theory is that the prison is for Tubbo. Tubbo is complacent to Dream now, sure, but Tubbo is very, very smart, and- most importantly to Dream - he still has one of Tommy's discs. And Dream wants it.

When talking sweet to Tubbo no longer works, I think the prison will be the next best option. Its possible Dream will frame Tubbo for some crime (foreshadowed by how Quackity and George tried to frame Eret for Karl's murder), or someone will threaten to overthrow Tubbo and Dream will bring him to a 'secure location' to protect him. Tubbo is very nervous about losing his one life, as exhibited by the safe room under the L'mamberg podium, and other comments about his fear of becoming the next Ghostbur. Dream said that he would protect Tubbo if someone tried to overthrow him. The only threats to Tubbo's current presidency is El Rapids. Ranboo is willing to wait until the next election to become president, but Quackity has shown a strong willingness to do terrible things in order to get power. In Quackity's war against Eret and Dream, Dream made many, many references to Tubbo being a better leader, possibly sowing jealousy in Quackity's mind. Sapnap, George and Karl, as apart of El Rapids also have a bone to pick with L'manberg and may also play a part in further separating Quackity from L'manberg and fueling his desire to be the most powerful nation on the server. Absorbing New L'manberg could be the next step.

Dream could pretend to protect Tubbo by bringing him to a 'safe location', the prison, and getting Tubbo to willingly set his spawn inside. Once it comes to light that it's a prison, with Dream his captor, Tubbo will have to make a decision. Give Dream the disc in his enderchest, or stay imprisoned. Freedom, or the disc, a compromise that has been made time and time again on this server.

I think that Tubbo will hold out and allow himself to be imprisoned, while Tommy returns from exile to make a prison break, with the help of Sam. I doubt that will end well, knowing Dream.

I also think at some point, one of the boys will need to bend. Either Tubbo choses to give up his disc to Dream for freedom, or he decides to take the disc with him to his grave. Its basically the Exile decision all over again. Life/freedom, or the discs/war. Selfishness vs. selflessness.

The two boys are learning throughout this current arc to be more like the other. Throughout his Exile, Tommy will learn to be self sufficient and has had to make big sacrifices consistently as Dream blows up the progress he's made. He's learning to chose his own life over property. Meanwhile, Tubbo (although he's only streamed on the SMP once so far this week) has already shown regret for exiling Tommy, and inherently by choosing to launch a war campaign against Techno, he is learning to chose war and bravery over peace and cowardice. He will gain an appreciation for the disks and/or recognize with greater understanding what they mean to Tommy. Maybe he will learn to care deeply for his compass and learns how willing he is to wage war if the compass gets stolen. It's about the symbolism - its what the object means that is worth protecting.

I think Tubbo will die protecting the discs. Or, Tommy will tell Tubbo to give it up. This is a better ending, in which Tommy will learn that the discs represent is his friendships. And, according to Ranboo, they also represent power, according to Ranboo. But on the server, according to Wilbur (when he asks Tubbo to spy for him) people have always represented power.

To Tommy, in this arc, I hope he will learn that keeping the discs is not worth losing his best friend.

#dream team #dreamteam #dreamwastaken #mcyt #president tubbo #tubbolive #tubbo #tommyinnit #clingy duo #sleepy bois inc #wilbur soot #ghostbur #awesamdude #quackity #fundy #fundylive

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perriwinklesblog · 3 years

Text

I feel a lot of people missed certain parts of the Tubbo and Quackity argument because theres a lot of “Tubbo was being aggressive” and “Tubbo refused to even compromise” going around.

So we’re going to go through many of the questions people have with the whole argument.

(It should be noted, it’s very clear that I am current on summer hols from uni as I put too much time into this long ass post. You don’t need to read it, this is very self-indulgent. I am bored so I analysed.)

Here are the questions covered;

This Land is My Land, This Land is Your Land: Does Tubbo have the right to build there?

I See You For What You Truly Are, which is UGLY: Is Quackity in the right asking Tubbo to tear down his structure due to how it looks?

Cookie Outpost: Threat or Passive Player?

That’s Not Fair: Why wouldn’t Tubbo try and compromise?

You Started It So I’m Finishing It: Why did Tubbo instigate and threaten violence?

Conclusion: The World Is Wide Enough.

1. This Land is My Land, This Land is Your Land: Does Tubbo have the right to build there?

Short answer. Yes.

Many people are putting real-world logic into this RP world, and whilst in the real world, Tubbo wouldn't be in the right here. However, what Tubbo has done in this RP world is perfectly acceptable, even if it is annoying.

The rules of this world are different to that of our own.

We must accept this. Regardless of whether you find similar situations that mirror real-world events, the Dream SMP (DSMP) has different unspoken and spoken rules than our own.

With that in mind, looking at the planning of structures and claiming land, it is very different from what we would typically see in the real world. There is no local government with a planning committee to go to for structures you want to build. You do not need to get approval to build structures. If there is a free space with no claim to it, you can create what you like. (Within reason, as long as it's not offensive, minus a penis as it is clear that the majority of this world do not find the phallic symbol to be offensive)

Whilst there have been retail estate agents on the DSMP who sell land to others, they first had to mark and claim the land to prevent someone just building on it. Marking the land with either fenceposts or a sign or outlining it with blocks is usual to claim something on the DSMP. Another way to claim land you wish to build upon, is to tell people and/or your chat so that when someone else comes across the land and starts to build, they then warn that the land has been claimed. Making it is the safest option to go with as many streamers know that chats can, and will often, lie. So without markers, it is assumed that the land is free and therefore up for grabs to build on. First come, first served.

This is what Quackity had done with Las Nevadas. We've seen people come across Las Nevadas before structures were built. Quackity had marked out areas for each building and signed it, showing those who had come across that the land they were walking on was claimed and could not be built upon. However, Quackity did not claim outwith that area, which is why it was so easy for Wilbur to find a place so close to Las Nevadas. Wilbur could claim his rival city out of pettiness much easier as there were no clear cut borders. Quackity did not outline the areas in which he wanted to expand, and therefore it was free land. He hadn't staked a claim on it. Quackity had thought it out but had not staked an actual claim.

Now, you could argue that was his plan and that he hadn't had time to outline where he wished to expand next. But that's not how the server works. When it comes to land, it is a first-come, first-serve scenario. Unless you take proactive measures to protect the land you have plans for, someone else can and will build there.

Quackity had not said to anyone canonically before Tubbo's Outpost that he was expanding there. He hadn't made the boundaries clear of the land he wished to stake a claim on, and therefore it stayed as free land.

So whilst what's happened to Quackity with plans of expansion stalling, this wouldn't have been an issue if he had been more apparent with boundaries. But, annoyingly for him, the perimeters of the DSMP, Tubbo has every right to build there as it was still free land.

Now, this brings us onto the building itself,

2. I See You For What You Truly Are, Which Is UGLY: Is Quackity in the right asking Tubbo to tear down his structure due to how it looks?

Short answer, no.

Again this comes back to the DSMP rules being different to real-world ones.

Now in many parts of the world, there are systems and hurdles you have to go through to get planning permission for a structure you wish to build, even if you own the land it will be on. You have to get the architectural plan approved by a committee a lot of the time. Neighbours often are allowed to object to structures or whole communities being allowed to at least say their grievances before the committee passes on the plan. Sometimes the committee will agree with the project even if there are grievances. Everywhere is slightly different, but there are systems in place for these discussions at the end of the day.

But not in the DSMP.

People can build whatever structure they want, no matter how ugly, as long as it is on their land or free land. So if they claim a bit of land and go, "I want to build an ugly thing", then they are allowed, even if it ruins the look of the thing next to them.

Is it rude? Yes. But does that mean they're not allowed? No.

Tubbo's structure is imposing for Quackity mainly because of the walls. He wasn't happy with the design when he first saw it before this wall, but the wall pointing directly at his nation was too much for him. Quackity finds them imposing and threatening, but it was technically on free land, so Tubbo can build them. Quackity does not have a right in the rules of the DSMP to have Tubbo tear down his walls due to how he perceives them. Although emotionally, it'd be great to see those walls come down in all parties.

He can issue with them and grumble but technically, within the unspoken rules of the DSMP, Tubbo's allowed to have them there.

Is it a bit rude of Tubbo to not have gone, "Hey, by the way, I'm building these walls around my structure; this is as close as I'm planning on this wall getting to your area, is that fine"? Yes, it was rude. But is he therefore not allowed to do that? No. He's allowed to build what he wants on free land that he has claimed.

So again, whilst aggravating for Quackity, Tubbo is allowed to build those walls.

Now to focus on the incident itself. There are many things, bear with;

3. Cookie Outpost: Threat or Passive Player?

The underlying cause of this argument is more to do with the perception of the building, walls included, than the actual placement.

Quackity could have found ways to move around the Outpost, such as dig a road under a new patch of land, etc. There are solutions to the outpost problem. Technically, Wilbur's only claimed a tiny bit of ground to easily have focused on building around the small building Wilbur made etc. Unlike Tubbo, Wilbur hasn't made his intentions clear where his areas borders are, and therefore, Quackity could use the same logic as Tubbo and the same logic of how land claimant works in the SMP against Wilbur. But instead, he focuses on Tubbo and places more energy in engaging with Tubbo than with Wilbur or Tommy. He views Wilbur and Tommy as more of a nuisance whilst Tubbo poses as a threat. He views Tubbo as a threat well before the actual threat from Tubbo and the proper knowledge of the nukes.

We often forget to take into account that canonically the audience knows more than half the DSMP members.

Philza is the only one who indeed acknowledges and reminds us of this fact. Others dance around or ignore the idea as sometimes they like to use the chat in their role-play to gain knowledge. But whether they've used chat in the past or not, the audience will always know more. So we read up upon and about streams we've missed and watch more perspectives allowing us a greater insight that canonically no one else gets. Unfortunately, the only understanding we have yet to grasp is Dream, which is not relevant to this current scenario.

We have to note what Quackity and Tubbo know and what we know and separate it with this understanding.

From Tubbo's perspective;

Tubbo heard of Las Nevadas, saw many people leaving for Las Nevadas and wanted to investigate. One of his citizens had emigrated to Las Nevadas, so there was a natural curiosity of what they are doing that's attracting everyone. So he initially wanted to create a very secret hiding place to spy on Las Nevadas to see what they were doing, much like what he did with the Egg.

The main objective: to observe.

The last organised group of people on the DSMP was the Eggpire. They were a nuisance for some people and a threat for many others, including Tubbo. So a new nation and a new group would naturally have Tubbo a little wary and very curious. Not to mention that this new nation was an old friend's latest project.

Those who watch Tubbo know that whilst he managed to create a small place to observe the Egg from, Tubbo often makes or desires big builds. Canonically small himself in height but loves a big house. So very quickly, the building itself becomes noticeable and more prominent than intended. Tubbo also likes substantial structured buildings leading to quite a sturdy looking outpost.

The Outpost style fits very much with Snowchester's style and the environment it is in. (As a side, he may not conically say he's a goat hybrid, but he chose a very mountain goat place to settle here). Whilst he continues to build his Outpost, he decides to build walls around it as a defence if anyone tries to sneak in or attack. The walls are reminiscent of the ones he made around Snowchester, again adding to the similarities between the two places he's decided to put roots. And again, it fits very much within the environment he's created. He adds a lava door as another defence but then decorates the courtyard for visitors. The lava door and walls keep people he doesn't want inside out but not to keep everyone out indefinitely. Again, he's establishing what his area is.

Tubbo understands that his area is not very secret, and the main goal is still to observe everything that is happening in Las Nevadas but knows he needs a cover since people are also asking what he's doing. So a cookie shop becomes the cover. A cover he gets quite into with the help of Ranboo. So with that, he needs to expand and make room for a farm and expand further onto the free land available. So the wall which becomes the centre of the argument with Quackity is built. This wall extends towards Las Nevadas but does not cross the river. Where it stops when they are interrupted with the Las Nevadas retaliation was as far as Tubbo was going to build it. The plan from there was to have to go back. The walls had gone from being purely defensive of the outpost building itself to indicating boundaries and what was Tubbo's land and what was still free land.

Tubbo added the bridge to connect his Outpost to Quackity's land to make it easier for both parties to visit each other. Quackity responded by linking it up properly but creating a toll.

When watching Tubbo's perspective and hearing his plans for the Outpost, it comes across as very passive. It was designed to be a place where he could keep up to date with what was happening and see what was going on without directly involving himself. He wanted to observe, and with his militant wired brain, he also needed some defences just in case. An argument often backed by the fact that almost all his builds on the server have been blown up, burnt down, or destroyed somehow. A fact, Quackity knows and feels too.

So for Tubbo, Outpost = Passive Player.

For Quackity's Perspective;

Quackity built Las Nevadas as a place where he can belong without proving it to others or compromising with others. This place is his and his alone where his laws and his rules are the only ones. People have to bend to him. People have to answer to him. He presents it as a safe haven from the chaos and a place to find a home, find family, and be one together. However, it is always on his terms. He will take others ideas and wrap them so they fit his narrative and plan but make it, so the others believe he is listening to them.

A case in point is the whole torture thing with Dream and Sam. He had an idea, he had a plan and then used a narrative Sam bought into, then twisted Sam's thoughts into fitting with his plans. It's a little bit more complicated than that but boiled down to the basics, yeah.

Whilst Quackity is the antagonist in many plot points right now, the heart of it all is centred on having a home, a place where he belongs and doesn't feel the need to constantly fight for it, to feel it threatened by outside sources continually. He just wants somewhere safe... where he can scam people so he can be rich.

With all that in mind, when Wilbur shows up, and their interaction descends into pettiness, it puts him on edge. He knows that Wilbur is stubborn and that Tommy is also determined. So whilst Quackity has the upper hand over them, which is why they're not seen as a threat more of an annoyance, they still started to sow the seeds in Quackity's mind that Las Nevadas was not as safe of a home as he first thought.

Now we could go into all the illogical ideas about Las Nevadas, such as open to all but not, pay a toll to get here, free to live and leave but sign your soul to me, and we welcome everyone but omfg why are you all here leave my home alone. We could go into the tortured soul of Quackity, but the focus is right now on why Tubbo's Outpost and wall created a more extensive argument and reaction than Wilbur and Tommy's blatant threat ever did.

When Quackity first saw and mentioned the Outpost, the walls were not as long; they stayed pretty close to the building itself. However, even when he was told this place might've been a Cookie shop, he didn't fully believe it. His mind immediately went to threat and annoyance. This is probably due to the interaction with Wilbur. His reaction would probably have been the same if anyone had built it there. It is close to his land, and he doesn't know why it's there. When it's mentioned to be Tubbo's property, his worries are not immediately erased; instead, he almost doubles down in the idea that Tubbo is threatening him. He sees the bridge and is even more enraged by it. He builds a toll as a way to deter Tubbo from crossing into his land. Then Quackity, Slime and Fundy go to the Outpost to snoop, finding ordinary building materials along with gunpowder and two totems, leading to Quackity to double down in his fear that Tubbo wants to destroy this happiness he's cultivated. They then grief the place to threaten Tubbo and show Tubbo that they will not stand for threats.

Overall, from Quackity's perspective, Outpost = Threat

But at the end of the day, Quackity's knowledge of the Outpost is that it is a Cookie Shop. That has all that's been shown to him. That is all his character canonically knows, and even though it looks imposing to him, he shouldn't fear a cookie post. To him, Tubbo is a good kid, so why has he jumped and stuck to the narrative that the place is a threat, that the cookie shop will destroy his happiness?

Now Tubbo built the Outpost as a passive observation base. Therefore technically, the Cookie Outpost is passive, but Quackity places the idea that this place is a threat to the minds of Las Nevadas citizens and creates the idea that this building is a threat to their country. Regardless of whether it was a place for the Snowchester leader to spy, it was still a passive building where Tubbo did not want to attack anyone or anything. Spying does not equal threat. So again, Quackity is the one to impose the idea of a threat upon Las Nevadas, not Tubbo.

So now this Outpost exists in two states, and that's where the conflict is arising.

4. That's Not Fair: Why wouldn't Tubbo try and compromise?

Short answer, he did try.

Tubbo tried to compromise. Tubbo could see where Quackity was coming from; he understood and said to Quackity he understood and tried to explain that he wasn't attacking Las Nevadas. Tubbo said that was as close as he was going to get with the walls, but Quackity was the one who ignored him and didn't believe him.

Whilst the walls started as defensive, they were now mainly used to discern from what was Tubbo's land and what wasn't, which is why Tubbo didn't want to give up the new wall. So instead, he tried to mark out and defend his farm, in line with Cookie Outpost, which meant walls.

The solutions Quackity offers are all offers that benefited Las Nevadas and his plans, not his new neighbour Tubbo. Tubbo didn't understand why Quackity came in so aggressively so suddenly. The last they spoke, they at least left on civil terms, and both said they considered each other a friend, yet Quackity does not believe what Tubbo is telling him, doesn't believe that Tubbo doesn't want to harm him. Tubbo is also a bit annoyed by the fact that the solutions all take a hit to him when in his eyes, he didn't even build on Las Nevadas property and didn't even know of future plans Quackity supposedly had for Las Nevadas.

Eventually, Tubbo agrees to take down the wall if they come up with boundaries to the land to know what is his and what is Las Nevadas. He suggests the natural border of the river as that was what he was following anyway. He also offers it as it keeps the place looking nice since Quackity initially said the issue was how imposing the wall was to his nation.

This is a compromise. Tubbo and Quackity both get the things they want as the cost of the wall, the issue at hand. But Quackity and Las Nevadas say no to this proposal, and once again, they are running around in circles.

Other compromises were proposed, but again, most of them suited Quackity over Tubbo and therefore were more of a relinquish of power than a compromise. The solution Tubbo gave was one in which there wouldn't be a power imbalance between the two nations and would have left both on equal footing. But Quackity said no because he needs Tubbo below him power-wise.

Like Tubbo with his walls to protect what he loves, Quackity wishes to preserve his happiness and joy through control. He needs to control the situation, the environment and the people around him so that they do not say or do anything to jeopardise the life he has created. He cannot have Tubbo in an equal position to him, and therefore all solutions Quackity offers leave Tubbo below him.

So Tubbo did try and compromise, he just wasn't going to take a solution that didn't leave him, and Quackity equal, much like Quackity wasn't going to take a solution that didn't leave him above Tubbo.

5. You Started It So I Am Finishing It: Why did Tubbo instigate and threaten violence?

Short answer, he wasn't the instigator.

Whilst Tubbo was a bit rude and inconsiderate, the first instigation and threat of violence came from Quackity's side.

As mentioned before, upon first viewing Tubbo's place with Slime and Fundy, Quackity decides to send a message to Tubbo not to threaten them by essentially threatening Tubbo himself. They trash the site and leave it in ruin. This is the first act of aggression. There is also the fact that Quackity was willing to take things further by stealing Tubbo's totems, and if it had not been for Fundy suggesting that he was going too far, he probably would have taken them.

At this stage, Quackity and Tubbo have not spoken, have not adequately interacted for months. Quackity grief's the place without even asking Tubbo what he's doing, without talking things through with Tubbo. Quackity said he would ask him what was happening and whether this place was a threat but then proceeded to treat it as a threat and grief the place to send a message to Tubbo.

Ranboo then cleans the place up, placing signs to reinforce the idea that it's a cookie shop. This hides the altercation from Tubbo and ultimately makes Quackity's next more seem even more aggressive and over the top than before.

In Tubbo's eyes, this has come out of nowhere, whilst Quackity feels he is pre-empting an inevitable that he had no guarantee on.

It isn't until things start to get a bit heated that Quackity decides to try and talk things out with Tubbo. Until this moment, Tubbo had been working on the defensive. Even when he hadn't realised Quackity had threatened him before. Tubbo's Outpost and stance in this situation had always been defensive and passive until Quackity started to push at Tubbo.

Tubbo's threat of the nukes came after all the negotiations and arguing and directly responded to the energy Quackity was giving Tubbo. Tubbo wasn't the first to push, it was Quackity, and Tubbo just pushed back and essentially told Quackity, do not underestimate me.

Tubbo doesn't want to use the nukes; that was not the point of Snowchester's nukes. He doesn't want to destroy anything; it is just to make sure people do not destroy his things. Tubbo, although more feral than the feral boys, does not crave violence; like Quackity (or at least before Quackity enjoyed torturing Dream), he wishes for a peaceful place where he can work on his projects; his end goal isn't destruction.

Tubbo pulling the nuke card was not an attack, but a defensive response to everything Quackity had put on the table.

It felt like an extreme response, but Tubbo has seen how far Quackity goes with things and how hard Quackity is willing to fight for what he wants. So Tubbo needed to shock Quackity and remind Quackity that they are equals, they are equal in power and that should he forget, Tubbo will happily remind him.

Overall. Tubbo did not instigate but react.

Both parties threatened each other, but it was Quackity who threw the first punch.

6. Conclusion: The World Is Wide Enough.

The issue with Quackity and Tubbo is more about the relationship and their perception than the building itself.

In posts before, I talked about how one of the significant communicative issues between Tubbo and Quackity is their inability to understand how they view things differently, even after all their shared trauma.

Quackity and Tubbo went through Schlatt's administration together and in close quarters with Schlatt. They both left with similar, albeit not the same, trauma as a result. However, their experiences with Schlatt left them both with different outlooks on life. They approach things differently, want and desire other things in life, and, throughout the exile arc, constantly found themselves at odds in opinion. If you ever wanted a trope of friends to enemies through misunderstandings, much like Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, Quackity and Tubbo are your guys.

They both struggle with the idea that the world is big enough for them, especially Quackity. There is a constant struggle between Quackity and Tubbo with who takes the lead and who is in charge. Now that they aren't forced on the same team, they've again found themselves at this impasse. But this time, neither is backing down because neither has to. They don't have to put aside their differences for the good of a country anymore. This time they are fighting for each their nation and ideals.

Tubbo often let Quackity persuade him with passionate speeches. But, this time, Tubbo is not allowing Quackity to have his way, whilst Quackity is not used to Tubbo digging his heels in the ground so much. Quackity does not want to settle for less; he's done that in the past, but he has missed the compromises being offered in refusing to let a little go. His paranoia that his happiness and all he's created will crumble away, much like past projects have toe lead him to view everyone as a threat. And it's funny how the very same fear from Tubbo, building those walls to protect his happiness, broke the last straw for Quackity, causing this argument to spiral and ball.

Both are in the wrong, and both are in the right. Still, personally, Quackity's refusal in this new life for total control, which influenced the negotiating, probably had a more significant impact than just giving Tubbo the natural border. Quackity makes it out like he doesn't want complete control, but he rejected it and presented arguments that left Tubbo worse off when offered an equal footing solution. Quackity is someone who wants to stay above Tubbo and therefore hold more of the control. Suppose he continues to maintain that stance in his mind while negotiating. In that case, he will never find a solution other than obliterating the competition because Tubbo will not stand for less than equal.

The fractures in Tubbo and Quackity's relationship came long before this altercation, but it seems as though this might be the thing to pull them apart finally. Of course, the only viable solution is for both parties to leave on equal footing, but Quackity struggles with that idea, and Tubbo won't settle for less.

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ranboo5 · 3 years

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whats 'the clip' and knifetrick?

Augh. Under the cut for shipping discourse and p/dophilia ment (nothing graphic or specific). Gets long bc I discuss my thoughts on DSMP shipping in general. You are setting me up fr anon

Some quick vocab -

intimacy here is used to refer to. Well. Any kind of intimacy between characters, of any sort, as an umbrella term /r, /p, and /qp here are used as shorteners to denote "romantic," "platonic," and "queerplatonic," both as adjectives And as verbs ("to /r" = "to portray romantically") shipping here is used to refer to any focused examination of intimacy between characters

And some clarity that Should follow from the essay next but may not - """anti-antis"""" and RPF writers delete forever

The Clip is from one of if not the? most recent Discord stage(s) Mr Live has done (which I missed when it was live RIP) wherein he issues a hard ban on shipping him ("do not ship me, in any way, with anyone!") which would less influence c!beeduo (which has been portrayed/stated to be romantic AND nonromantic both conflictingly for a while until being confirmed unconfirmed several months ago, that being the last was heard) without its direct invocation if he hadn't also cited for the reason as being underage ("'Cause, one, it's straight up pedophilia") which is! a) immediately applicable to At Least his DSMP character, Partially and b) while not Strictly True (should b obvious that portraying a relationship within the bounds of what it is in canon and in a nonsexual way is not That, and /r-ing c!beeduo etc was possible to do Appropriately again by remaining w/in the bounds of canon) is Clearly Indicative of the fact that baggage-wise it IS associated with people being fucking creeps

This Really complicates things bc like okay the apparent solution is "lol just don't /r it" but it's really like. A Worse issue than that bc like.

Okay the reason shipping in terms of fictional characters is a Different Bar is bc it's an examination of Intimacy and certain lines exist in certain dynamics of intimacy that Isn't Shown (which is the whole Within The Bounds Of Canon thing) which is important in a medium like DSMP because of the smaller gap + more personal relationship b/w character and streamer. Examining intimacy beyond th bounds of the consent that has been established in that regard is Weird at best and Violating And Creepy more often and, As Mentioned In Ranb's Stage, Literally Evil at worst

Which is why writing abt like. QPR or platonically intimate Techno and Philza (characters) is smth that is fine because that's smth that has been shown and repeatedly stated onscreen; it's in the bounds of canon n thus within th bounds of what the streamers've consented 2 be done with their characters. But writing T3chza making out or whatever is fucked up because it's smth that's beyond those consent barriers

And the thing is right

Slapping a /p on T3chza makeout doesn't. Make it less violating

Like what you CALL romantic is not the measure or whether it's past those barriers yk? And if it's indistinguishable, if it's in extrapolative territory that is Past The Bounds, it Does Not Matter how much you /p it EVEN IF IT IS TECHNICALLY PLATONIC y feel? Like at the end of the day placing a moratorium on some/all forms of shipping is placing a moratorium on certain examinings of intimacy

And okay 2 go back to Mr Live and his character. What it implies taken in context w/ older portrayals of c!beeduo and said by invoking smth that both evokes Really fucked up baggage (that does unfortunately exist btw I'm sorry if you didn't know that but People Really Do B Fucked Up Abt Beeduo) AND applies to his character is a revocation of consent to examining deep intimacies:tm: with his character, which is gonna apply regardless of the nature of that intimacy (even if nonromantic)

Like I don't /r c!beeduo myself, do not, never have, but I talk to people who have and have consumed content where they r background /r; I also don't think it matters. Like I don't Actively /r it and I don't Actively Not /r it because imho w/ the intimacy regarding c!beeduo that is plot relevant and character important whether that intimacy is /p /qp or /r doesn't really matter. I don't consider myself Less of a c!beeduo shipper than someone who /rs them because that would be dumb as hell and while none of the content I've made* is Intrinsically or Intentionally /r it certainly can be read tht way as much as it can be read /qp or /p. It's be dumb and hypocritical of me to like, dunk on ppl for /r-ing c!beeduo when I'm also invested in these two and my tonetags r not gonna suddenly Delete the picking apart I've done of the dynamic @ hand

Which Has Been. Within Bounds Of Canon. It's been what's been shown (sometimes to my great distress. There is a reason that the :canon_beeduo: emote looks the way it does) Directly Onscreen and in general keeping with the tone n intensity/directions of what they've Done With The Characters

HOWEVER

As mentioned up there. Revocation of consent

It makes. Full sense 2 me that Mr Live wants to place a moratorium or fullon ban on shipping his characters perhaps where he wouldn't have before because of the Unfortunately Very Extant trends of people being Fucking Weird about shipping his characters AND of using them as a Thinly Veiled Excuse to ship HIM, which. I should not have to explain why shipping real people is fucking abhorrent

THIS creates a problem which is a. Bit of a vacuum in interacting with what is a facet of c!Ranboo's arc, decision making, and character. Like you CAN have c!Ranboo w/o cbeeduo but you Can't Really have his plotline without examining c!beeduo. And as I mentioned earlier: even if your examination of c!beeduo is fully platonic, the significance of it To the plotline means that any examination of it and its relevance to the plotline and characters IS gonna be an examination of intimacy, which. Regardless of it's platonic, Is Still Shipping

Unless some HARD retconning happens it leaves this like. Hole in an aspect of c!Ranboo's arc and decisionmaking and it's very. Uncertain? God. Fucking months ago I was already kind of :huh. Does he know what the fuck he's doing: irt c!beeduo and desperately wishing for things to be cleared up and now it's only That Much Stronger

NOW. KNIFETRICK, FINALLY

Knifetrick (or, as it’s actually listed, Bishop’s Knife Trick) is a fic about "Ran and Jackie from The Pit TFTSMP" in a "canon-typical ambiguously romantic relationship." As you can tell from the scare quotes, especially if you've seen me vague, both of these are, to put it politely, Doubtful. I've read the fic; I will not be sharing my opinions because that would be neither productive nor responsible (I will just say I can't recommend it and leave it at that) but I WILL say the following that Is relevant to the conversation:

Ran's and Jackie's characterizations respectively have very little to do with characterizations from The Pit, and bear a dollar-store-version resemblance to tropes and personality motifs found in ESPECIALLY fanon c!beeduo, especially later in the fic. I would not go so far as to say they are Intentionally Literally Ranboo and Tubbo but they are transparent expies and were clearly written at LEAST unintentionally w/ c!beeduo in mind (esp since. Ran and Jackie barely interacted in The Pit), and for a readerbase that, as far as I can tell, is HUGELY dominated by /r c!beeduo shippers. Like. Sorry. This is off-brand c!beeduo.

The dynamic between the two is pretty unambiguously romantic, also; despite what the fic's white knights claim, romantic tropes and implications/motifs/imagery from at LEAST chapter two, and is very much explicitly romantic by the most recent chapter.

FROM CH1:

"And now, with raised eyebrows and a pursed lip, the newly named General Jackie observes Ran in such a way that makes the enderman’s skin crawl. Ran reminds himself that this kid, as short and harmless as he may look, is trained to kill. [...] Jackie narrows his eyes and tilts his head a little, as if he’s trying to read in between every one of Ran’s imperfect scales."

FROM CH2:

"It makes Ran’s skin itch with discomfort. [...] 'That actually doesn’t explain much of anything at all,' complains Jackie, and he pops a few croutons into his mouth with one hand. 'Tell me what you’re thinking, pretty-boy.'

"Ran feels his face flush, no doubt mildly glowing green.

"Yes, that was the other thing. The unnecessary compliments to his physical appearance.

"They don’t happen very often, and don’t seem to have very much meaning or intention behind them— Jackie often speaks like an unthinking kid— but when they do happen… they’re embarrassing. [...] It’s annoying how the rug is pulled out from under his feet in these moments when he’s 'embarrassed'. Like the conversation see-saw has temporarily shifted weight in the general’s favor."

I am not going to include excerpts from Chapter 6 because it's just the entire chapter.

I WILL SAY, HOWEVER, STEPPING ON THIS SCORPION BEFORE IT STINGS: they are not written in an RPFy manner and I don't think there's any grounds, including Vibes, of accusing Knifetrick of being like. Closet truthing or whatever. Also, while I think there's certainly Some Weirdness ESPECIALLY around the reaction, the romance itself is Not written in any way I'd call weird or problematic pre-clip; it's nothing inappropriate or like Weirdly Fetishy or whatever. Knifetrick is not #problematic or anything and I don't have beef with like the concept of liking it intrinsically; if I thought it was like. Abhorrent I wouldn't be sharing excerpts lmao dhjfnhdsbvdnfjh. Hence: if anyone uses this post or anyth like it to send harassment or bad faith ANYTHING to anyone involved with Knifetrick I will hunt you down in the fucking night even if it WAS #problematic that'd be the LITERAL OPPOSITE of productive and as it stands it's Literally Not. Essentially: Knifetrick is a (questionably-written /mean) fic using Ran and Jackie from The Pit as a vessel for a large chunk of the dynamics and headcanons of fanon /r c!beeduo in particular

And again, I would not call it problematic in any way (aside from the disingenuity of the insistence that it's TOTALLY UNRELATED TO BEEDUO and TOOOTALLY WASN'T INTENDED TO BE ROMANTIC GUYS like own your shit please)... IF it weren't for the advent of The Clip, which is calling in2 question the Entirety of the problem of /r-ing any variant of c!beeduo or any of Ranboo's characters at all

I really do not have an answer for this tbh. I genuinely wanna hear from the streamer on this more specifically because I like,,, I got no clue where 2 go from here? Do I just consider an arc retconned? Was it an issue of speaking abt a troubling subject kneejerk wise and I'm reading too much in2 it?

I just. I dunno

Tl;dr (AT LONG LAST)

- The Clip is a clip of a Discord stage where Ranboo (streamer) loudly explicitly decried shipping in a way that implicitly applies to characters he plays - This would be all well and good but is rendered complicated by the plot relevance of c!beeduo, which does not stop being shipping if it's /p'd due to it still necessarily being an examination of a particular intimacy in a way that is in canon hard to distinguish the /p, /qp, or /r nature of - Bishop's Knife Trick is an AO3 fic centered around using TFTSMP characters as /r c!beeduo expies which is not a bad thing in and of itself unless it also is covered under this moratorium - Things remain unclear until and unless we get clearer word from streamer, but considering Mr Live seems to be allergic to clarifying anything abt c!beeduo this is doubtful

*very little if any of the content I personally have made 4 c!beeduo has been posted publicly, for related reasons. You May have seen it if you're in servers w/ me, depending on Which Ones

#dsmp fandom critical #kind of?#jic #ask to tag #I am technically defending Kn1fetrick on this post #I am not nice to it but I am defending it technically. If people start being rude abt it I am going to set myself on fire #this IS ludicrously long but I have tl;dr'd it as I do with all my ludicrously long posts. I think I have salient thoughts

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marmalade-mir · 3 years

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you were my first asker!! <3<3 thank u unrelated but i am brainrotting so if you are down to word vomit what are some of your fav dsmp dynamics?? 👀👀

Thanks for the ask ! I’m always down to appreciate & lovepost about the characters :) Warning though: I wrote a Lot. For me, characters and their relationships are at the heart of any story. And I think that’s a big reason why so many people are so drawn to the Dream SMP specifically. The variety in personalities of both the content creators and their characters make for some really phenomenal dynamics! Here are my personal favorites:

1. Quackity and Technoblade:

The potential ??? The potential. Maybe it’s my love for rhetorical analysis, but these two are such clear narrative foils! For starters, the clash between Quackity’s melodrama and theatrics versus Techno’s dry deadpan is so fun to watch both in and out of the Dream SMP canon. They compliment each other to a tee. I adore them.

Things get even more interesting when they so adamantly oppose each other in canon. As much as opposites have a great propensity to attract, they have just as much potential to clash. At their core, they both want to undermine institutions of absolute power, but their definitions of what that power is and what it looks like vastly differ. Quackity is at his strongest when he utilizes his social and political power. Technoblade, on the other hand, is at his strongest when he utilizes his physical power.

Quackity and Technoblade’s characters were practically destined for one of two extremes. Their mutual hatred of absolute power could have been a bridge between the two. If they were to ever both play to their strengths and team up against a common enemy, there is no doubt that they would be extremely powerful together. But for now, they remain diametrically opposed.

*posting the rest under read more, in case anyone doesn’t want to be subjected to whole ass essays lol

2. Ranboo and Tubbo:

Two words: absolutely adorable. Their real-life dynamic plays a big role in their character dynamic, and that’s a good thing! Although I don’t religiously watch their streams, whenever I do happen to catch one, it’s sure to make me smile. Tubbo’s quirkiness stands out a lot when he’s with Ranboo, who often plays the “straight man” to Tubbo’s eccentricity. Flirting competitions to see who can make the other one more flustered? Very fun. I too have jokingly flirted with one of my friends and until it ended up in a joke marriage,,, I suppose I have a soft spot for that very specific dynamic because of that...

3. Schlatt and Quackity:

Speaking of joke flirting, Quackity and Schlatt. It’s pretty funny when they slip into a similar back-and-forth as their characters regardless of whether they’re doing lore or not. They still play up the bits they’ve developed—overly flirtatious couple giving each other increasingly ridiculous pet names, exes with an awkward tension because of unresolved feelings, or just two idiots arguing with each other over the most randomly inconsequential topics to ever exist (Spirited Away and quesaritos and gun etiquette, to name a few).

Like these two hadn’t even talked in a month before Sam’s face-reveal stream, but the second that they were in call together they picked up right where they left off. They didn’t hesitate to start spewing their usual obnoxious, lovey-dovey banter like “my sugar plum pumpkin-spice latte” or “I’m waiting at the finish line.” RIP to Sam for having to third wheel for a few awkward minutes.

Within the story, I think some of their strongest character moments were when they were with each other. Other posts have expressed this before, but it requires trust in one’s acting partner to be able to commit to the more intense scenes (it probably helps that they get into a lot of lighthearted arguments as it is). But whether they’re pretending to love each other or pretending to hate each other—if they’re together, it’s guaranteed to be entertaining. Not good for each other in canon, but I miss them anyway!!

4. Jack Manifold and Tommy:

Jack and Tommy’s characters have a complicated dynamic, to put it lightly. Jack Manifold’s stream after he got news of Tommy’s death revealed a lot. The stream’s cheery celebration title belied Jack’s actual very conflicted feelings towards Tommy and his death. Yes, Jack originally set out to kill Tommy himself. But he made that his main purpose in life. Revenge and resentment gave his life meaning. And consequently, he felt that Tommy gave his life meaning.

So he grieved. Because, regardless of any contempt he felt, the person that made him cling to life so desperately in the first place was gone. The complexity and thought put into those character motivations is something to be admired!! And now there’s another added layer of complications now that Tommy has returned and just wants everything to go back to normal. Back when things were simpler.

It’s all very tragic, for both parties involved. And that makes them both very very intriguing and sympathetic characters in my eyes.

That’s all for now, hope I adequately fed your brainrot <3 I wrote an excessive amount,, but there’s always more where that came from :0

#obv im a little biased towards dynamics with c!quackity loll #but i tried to include ones that i think are narratively interesting #quackity #technoblade #ranboo #tubbo #jschlatt #schlatt #jack manifold #tommyinnit #tommy #dream smp #character analysis #long post #asks

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