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fbj723 · 1 month

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late night ramble but ig heres my 2 cents of this poll (not directly attaching this to the poll cause im a coward LOL)

ofc, i won't put my thoughts on luci/belphe/asmo. ik we get tidbits of them through their nobles or pb's prev games but i wanna judge them based on how they actually show up in-game. i also know there's prob gonna be some luci lore later when gamigin update is out (atm its like abt 4 or so days till that update's release) but i'll just omit my thoughts on luci for now

ok now for the rest of the kings:

i should also put a disclaimer that i don't read any of the unholy board stories unless if it's mammon's, so for the other kings that aren't mammon my opinions are purely based off of main story or event appearances or how they act in comics

satan - honestly pretty ok w him. i'm kinda biased when it comes to mc being recoginized as their own person rather than purely just the descendant of solomon so i like him based on that. idk i don't have any strong opinions abt him i just see him as a very fluffy cat :3

mammon - absolutely love him. 0 flaws. wins the idgaf war. my absolute fav squeak toy. lol ok but fr tho i don't really have any complaints abt him. will spoil tf out of mc and wants to ensure their safety. also sees mc as mc and was even kinda disgusted(? idk a better word for this💀💀) by the fact that a part of solomons soul can be sensed in them, almost as if he doesnt want it to be in the way of mc. also wasnt afraid to call out the fact that sitri kept calling mc solomon. and ofc the love at first sight thing is great too but also the bodyworship (or ig faceworship bc he only just kissed mc's entire face??) before the confession like UGH... absolutely weak for that man (devil?). idk i dont rlly see that many mammon fans rlly anywhere and it saddens me hes such a good char outside of just having huge tibbies. srsly tho pb pls we get it he has huge tits you dont need to constantly bring it up the char sprite is literally right in front of us-

cant wait for the next chapter w the big lore dump abt mammon and hope we finally get a pt 2 of his h scene (hopium)

no srsly he's the only king w 1 h scene, satan and levi got 2,, WHERE IS MAMMON'S PT 2

as a side comment also i love the silly banter btwn mammon and satan like they are truly besties from the cross on their foreheads to matching skill names to the amnt of times they throw hands and still hang out and care for each other

beel - hes ok ig? i think lore-wise hes gonna be one of the more interesting ones considering how "mysterious" he is i.e. constantly wandering, almost being an absent king. like what led to the constant wandering? what did andrealphus mean when he said beel is the key to ending the war? how does his cloning work? i kinda feel bad for bael and the other nobels needing to manage everything while beels away but i don't rlly hate him for it? at least not now considering we don't rlly know the definite reason and i want to assume the best and say he has a valid reason for being absent so he could protect his region. hate is a strong word ig its more of a slight dislike towards beel, but its like this 🤏 small of a dislike im still overall neutral abt him

levi - falling into the majority from the poll i have to agree that levi is my least fav king also lol. i get where he's coming from and why he acts the way he does, i just dont like how he's written? or ig moreso how he's written in the perspective of mc. tho tbh that's more of an mc issue than a levi issue, but i got pretty tired of the story constantly reminding us how pretty levi is (similar to how we always get reminded of how big mammon is/how huge mammons tits are). idk its like a gut feeling to not like/trust him. i also just don't really vibe w him in general even before we were actually introduced to him in main story. hes a good attacker gameplay-wise tho lol

so yeah, those are my thoughts for now. ofc they could change in the future when we get more info abt all of them but we'll see

#i just realized i wrote sm abt mammon LOL #i cant help it hes just an amazing char #but seriously wheres his pt 2 h scene #hopium we get it next chapter #fbj rambles

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sashannarcy · 3 years

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hi op what are your thoughts on uhhhh *spins wheel* sasha's season 2b arc (hope that's not too broad a subject)

edit: putting this under a cut bc it got LONG but. enjoy (???)

okay I gotta start by saying I didn't expect the depth of it at ALL; I knew Sash was featured prominently in the ending episodes of s2 based off of what my friend informed me, but like. I was not expecting 4.5 episodes to be almost ENTIRELY centered on their character arc and design (the .5 being the first half of True Colors).

that being said, I think Sash's 2b arc is PHENOMENAL bc of the way the nuance in it is written so incredibly well. this character is about to perform the most antagonistic move that they've pulled in the whole series so far, which is the act of betraying both Anne and Marcy in order to support Grime and get them home safe, if they so choose to go home (as an aside, I think at this point Sash has probably decided that she likes it more in Amphibia than back home, and there's one line that I'll get to that seems to be VERYYYY indicative of that. and if this is the case, it makes sense to me why Sasha would want to help Grime at all and why they don't really seem quite eager to follow Anne and Marcy back home. but! important to note that they still give those two the choice to go back if they wish, because at the end of the day Sash loves them and wouldn't try to force them to stay). and yet we see!! this back and forth!! this FIGHT that's happening in their mind, the way there's a flash of guilt they express at the very end of The Third Temple directly after confirming to Grime that things are still going according to plan, their convo w Anne at the end of The Dinner, the entire plot arc of BotB, and ofc the Sashanne duel in True Colors. I want to make an analysis post for each of these episodes because they're so fucking PACKED w shit to analyze, but I'll try my best to touch on all points here.

obviously we first learn of Sasha's plans to betray Anne and Marcy in The Third Temple. but what's important is that throughout the entire episode, there's several points where Sash switches back and forth between manipulation and honesty. I can talk abt this w confidence just based off of the whole. *gestures vaguely at myself.* but Sasha's initial apology in this episode was sheer manipulation, I think we all know that. however, when Sasha has to do their final test in the temple, those few lines they exchange w Anne in the moments before they raise themself up off the floor and launch themself into battle... those were genuine. they know they've been a shitty friend, and they're willing to accept that. so you have this game, almost, where Sash keeps flipping between putting on a mask to ensure they can keep up their facade until Grime secures the city and genuinely acknowledging their behavior and knowing that what they are doing is not going to sit well w Anne and Marcy.

so with that, The Third Temple sets the premise for the rest of the episodes of the season as far as Sasha's character arc. The Dinner is such a good fucking episode to follow with, because it hammers in the fact that Sasha has not changed. what it ALSO hammers in is she is still acting in her own self-interest - to put it in her words, she wants to get the friendship back under control. they still lash out, they still have a short fuse, they're still heavily opinionated and rough around the edges and prickly because this is an environment where they feel threatened. they're finally reuniting with the two people that mean the absolute most to them, only to realize they've been left out of the narrative. also not for nothing, but their trauma in Reunion got joked about in this episode which led to them blowing up over it, and like. I'm giving that one a pass bc man. anyway. at the end of the episode they say they like who they are, but it's said with a frown, which I think is fucking GENIUS. because there's an actual meaning to this line - they don't ACTUALLY like who they are. we have plenty of evidence that they don't like themself. what they MEAN is that they don't want to change, because that would mean giving up a security that they need in order to keep themself together. AND THIS IS DEMONSTRATED CRYSTAL CLEAR IN BOTB. they literally PURPOSEFULLY detach themself from Anne and Marcy bc they know they want control but they ALSO know that their behavior is just going to hurt the other two, so instead of compromising, they just go hey I'm gonna do my thing and you guys can do yours. and we'll both get what we want. and if that's not evidence that this character is fucking GRAPPLING with how to grow and change as a person, idk what is

and then. sigh. we get to True Colors. ofc Sash goes through on their betrayal - they're loyal to a fucking T once you dig beneath the surface, and they wouldn't just not follow through for Grime. what is absolutely KEY here is the fact that they are still leaving room for their friends' best interests, as in they're not trapping them in Amphibia but rather explaining how they're gonna help Grime take over, implying they'll go back home once they're done, but if Anne and Marcy wanna go back now, that's cool. if she didn't give a fuck abt their wellbeing, she'd just keep them there w her. but she doesn't. and then Anne starts retaliating, and. well. we ALL know Sasha does NOT do well with criticism of any kind. so they just go okay I'll send you back now then (and this is STILL an action motivated by what they think is best for Anne). BUT THE LINE. OHHHH THE SUPER IMPORTANT LINE THAT MADE MY HEAD SNAP UP AND MADE ME PHYSICALLY GO "YIKES" OUT LOUD. is Sasha saying "say hi to your parents for me." it's like a goddamn full-on sucker punch packed into one sentence - seven words, and all of a sudden we know for sure this kid does not have a good home life. I could go into elaboration on Sasha and the way she views familial ties throughout the show, but I won't bc that's gonna take this already super long answer and make it even worse. regardless, Sasha has once again flipped the switch and is indulging in their worst behaviors, which is full on controlling and holding power to act on what THEY think is best in the moment. and the moment Anne snaps, the moment Anne yells about Sasha being a horrible person, literally EVERYTHING shifts and the reaction from Sasha is VISCERAL. and what I mean by that is. it's not just the look in their eyes at those words. it's not just the sudden and complete loss of meaning, of self, of motivation after they've lost Anne's support. it's not just the way they stare at their own reflection in a sword that represents the color of the person they're trying their hardest to protect. it's the way that for the rest of the goddamn episode, they spend it trying to do the one thing they fear the most: giving up control. I'm gonna elaborate on this whole aspect in a different ask bc I was asked abt it, but the way Sasha acts towards Anne after the fallout, especially at the beginning of the duel and during the confrontation w Andrias, is fucking monumental. they struggle so much with how to change their own behavior, yet the very moment they lose the support of the people they've been trying so hard to love and care for in their roundabout way, they can change the way they act. because who the fuck is Sasha Waybright without Anne Boonchuy and Marcy Wu? in her mind, no one. she doesn't have any idea of who she is outside of this, so ofc she can act differently when she's thrown out in the cold. after all, it doesn't take much to warp an identity that doesn't exist.

tldr; god. how do I sum this up. Sash's 2b arc is smth that's incredibly intricate and complex from the way they constantly flip between desperately needing control and feeling guilty that this is the way they need to live. and True Colors is able to finally demonstrate to us the final piece in how they operate - without their friends, they lose sense of who they are, and their personality comes undone. in 4.5 episodes the writers managed to give us 1000 aspects to their character that we hadn't gotten to explore, and we can see that Sasha was never meant to be the villain. so. final review is that's some good shit👍

#this is so so so so long holy shit anon I am sorry #but the s2 2b arc is like. oh my god it sure is smth #PLEASE GOD IT'S 2:56 AM. I HAVE CLASS AT 9:30 GMFMDMDM #why do I do this shit to myself #sasha waybright #amphibia #anonymous #ask #long post

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tequiladimples · 3 years

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I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I saw that you dislike when collision is branded het cause you're not het, but no one's talking about you personally? like for me, I really like collision but I can understand the criticism in a way and that isn't an attack on you (or an attack at all lol). again hope I'm not rude but idk it seems unnecessary to get upset, it's better to take it as constructive criticism

sigh i don't think ur rude but it simply isn't constructive.

look i’ll talk abt this one more time n then i Beg we can put it to rest! (this is gna be a lot of word vomit but if i'm elaborative now i hope i won't have to talk abt this ever again)

i’m deeply insecure abt many aspects of collision. i don’t really keep that a secret. i also know some ppl don't like fantasy, some ppl don't like the kinds of dynamics i like, some ppl don't vibe with my style of writing (hell, i barely vibe with my style of writing). those things are fine. i can't control that and i don't take that personally. the reason why this is the one critique i do take personally is because it genuinely presumes wrongful, harmful things about me and my values, especially when i've made deliberate efforts to avoid writing the exact flavor of fic they're accusing me of having written. just because people don’t mean for what they say to reflect back on me, doesn’t stop it from doing so.

the thing about calling something a “het fic” is that the term brings along certain connotations which i don’t stand by at all and feel deeply uncomfortable and distraught to possibly have created. i’ve gone over this godforsaken story again and again just to be absolutely sure i didn’t actually do so. when people say “het fic” they generally don’t mean “boy meets girl and they fall in love”, they mean “super rude and mean boy meets uptight virtuous girl and makes her fall in dependence with him through manipulation and treating her like shit until she behaves how he wants.” and that is straight up not the fic i wrote. i’m not stupid. i know the dynamic i went with is widely and easily misused and there’s a lot of fiction depicting really bad, uneven, unhealthy relationships through it. i knew this going in, and i’ve tried persistently to avoid making those same mistakes.

skipping over the fact that they’re both boys (bc duh)--harry doesn't exhibit any real manipulative power over louis. collision harry is a grumpy, fruity little nerd who happened upon a really unfortunate lot in life and managed to trick himself into believing he's evil for like half a second of the story and his resolves crumble like a danish pastry the moment he receives his first hug. he's kind of aloof and arrogant, and understandably hardened from his past, but he's not bad. he's just lost. that's the basis of his character arc. now on the other hand, louis has harry wrapped around his finger starting like chapter 4. harry’s the one who opens up emotionally first, harry’s the one desperately seeking louis’ approval and caring about his opinion, harry’s the one who makes himself vulnerable continuously throughout the entire story. the only time louis makes himself vulnerable on a comparable scale is during the smut scenes, and even then, harry is gentle and attentive and puts louis first. louis is less experienced than harry in that area, but he isn't scared or intimidated by harry, and he has full reigns of the progression and nature of their relationship as a whole. that’s kind of how it needs to go with tough x soft dynamics for the power balance to not feel uneven, and i wrote the story accordingly. if you then happen to still be so blindly determined to associate soft/small with weakness (and thereby uh, womanhood ig) that you still felt like louis had an inferior position to harry solely because he is indeed soft/small, that sounds quite frankly like a you problem.

now, the whole point of louis’ character is that he’s underestimated. sure, he’s naive and self-centered and sheltered from the real world--that’s the basis of his character arc. those things all change. but louis isn’t ever weak. like idk who apparently needs to hear this but you can be small and simultaneously not be a pushover. the two aren’t mutually exclusive. there isn’t a single time louis takes shit in this story, especially not from harry; he gives back as good as he gets every time. oh! and then he literally saves the entire universe and the execution of that whole thing was his idea alone. i tried really hard to underline how strong-willed and full of grit he is to contrast what others think of him. if you think he’s portrayed as a meek and frail damsel, you missed the point. once again, i feel like we circle back to this misconception of louis being kind of naive and physically small = louis being inferior = louis being female. just do some soul searching.

(i could also get into the fact that for a bunch of people who don’t know these boys personally (no matter how much we like to think we do), this fandom is weirdly opinionated about characterization. especially regarding sexual stuff. i know creating a version for ourselves of who we think these boys are based on things we recognize in ourselves or things we find endearing is part of the comfort with loving them. but that doesn’t really equate to actually knowing them, and besides, this is fan fiction; no one’s opting to write a biography, anyway. being experimental and explorative and putting different aspects of their personalities in different lightings is what makes fic fun. if someone’s writing harmful or one-dimensional characters, that’s one thing, and preferences is again whatever floats your boat. but the “out of character” argument feels mostly really strange to me. this is a bit of a tangent, though.)

lastly, the thing is that i will and i do take it personally if someone insinuates that a character--a gay character--that i, a lesbian, construed is a secret vessel for expressing heterosexual attraction. if someone calls louis a “self-insert”, that does reflect back on me. and to elaborate on that--i don’t particularly love to bring it up, but it's quite disheartening to pour personal PTSD experiences into a character and rly put effort into doing it right and justice and underline growth and healing, just to find out people disregard all that completely in favor of declaring that my self-projection lies in the attraction to a man--which is to say, the one thing i couldn’t possibly feel more estranged from. it's so incredibly tactless. i feel thoroughly whiny at this point but how is that not supposed to make me a little sad?

anyway. none of this is to say that you can’t dislike or critique collision. you can. sometimes ppl don’t like things. but i hope i’m clear about where i’m coming from with my discomfort now. people’s preferences and dislikes are indeed not mine to be hurt by, but these things are. this definitely got unnecessarily long and i probably look like i take myself unbearably seriously (i promise i don’t), so i’m sorry. but at least i've said everything now, and if i encounter this sort of rhetoric in the future, i have something to redirect people to. also anon, none of this is directly pointed at you, i know you mean well. take care <3

#look away this is so long #also @ my non fic mutuals scroll past it pls #it’s not that deep i’m just tired #ask

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nagichi-boop · 3 years

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hey there! i have a few questions i'm confused about related to ocd. i'm not diagnosed with ocd but i do have anxiety (health and general anxiety) and when i asked my therapist regarding this, she said it didn't point towards ocd. so here i am bcs i wanna learn where to draw the line.

i've been having a anxious period for the last two weeks. so mostly what if intrusive thoughts like "what if my anxiety never recovers?" keep coming a few times but i can deal with them.

however, last week i read a post and after that, a certain word started popping up in my mind. it was bothersome at first but then i eventually got over it. but then a random person told me it sounds like ocd and i got anxious about that.

now the word barely pops up but when it does, it doesn't bother me. however, what makes me anxious is the "what if its ocd?" thought. i know it sounds weird but rather than actually having other intrusive thoughts, the thought that's making me anxious the most is "since i have/had a word in my mind, it indicates ocd."

my therapist says it could've been ocd in case it was the word (and other words/thoughts) that bothered you but instead what's causing you distress is the what if its ocd thought as in i've self diagnosed myself and my anxiety brain is making me believe it. she said that it points more towards anxiety.

but now i find myself questioning every one of my habits. like does me choosing/preferring certain colors over others, buying/using only light colored cloth hangers bcs they look more positive, finding one side of bed better than other, praying everyday bcs i don't like skipping it, sitting at the end of the table or just me wanting to stick to my schedule, are these compulsions? or are these just habits and preferences? these choices don't impact my life in any way nor do they make me anxious and i can change those up easily but now, i find myself questioning them.

i'm sorry if you find this bothering you. that was not my intention. i just had some questions as to where do we draw the line between daily habits and ocd compulsions? or even between anxiety what ifs (like what if i have xyz disease?) and ocd obsessions/compulsions?

thank you and sending lots of love ❤

Hey, thanks for the ask! And dw you’re not bothering me. <3

I’m gonna start off by saying I’m not a professional - heck, I am not even diagnosed with ocd and I still on and off doubt that I have it - so I’m by no means the authority on what is and isn’t ocd, but I can try offer my opinion?

I’m not entirely sure how much research you’ve done into ocd and I still myself struggle to know what is and isn’t a sign of ocd. The constant wondering if the thing is ocd could be rumination, which is I believe a type of compulsion, but I can’t say for certain whether that’s directly a result of ocd.

The things you listed in that one paragraph I suppose could be ocd, but since you said it doesn’t cause you anxiety it’s possible it’s also not. To my knowledge, compulsions are usually done out of a state of anxiety. For example, someone who has a hand washing compulsion will find it deeply uncomfortable and anxiety inducing to not wash their hands when the desire pops up. I don’t really think that if it’s related to ocd that you can easily just change them, but again I’m not an expert. It’s an uncontrollable intrusive thought that leads to the action rather than a matter of preference. I guess it kinda depends why you do them. Do you pray every day because that’s your routine or because you’re worried that if you don’t something bad will happen?

Ocd is marked by obsessions, compulsions and intrusive thoughts. So someone might have something like “if I don’t flick the light switch 7 times, my whole family will die”, and so they have to do the compulsion of flicking the light switch to relieve that anxiety. There’s also a subtype of ocd called Pure O (or Pure Obsessional), who do has a misleading name because you still get compulsions, they’re just more internal. For example, you might worry “what if I have cancer” and then you think about it a lot, research the symptoms online, ask people if they’ve noticed anything, etc.

The only thing I can suggest is perhaps doing more research? I mean for me personally researching is part of my problem - I crave certainty and so I research different mental health disorders for hours a day in hopes it’ll give me an answer (which it doesn’t besides maybe some temporary relief). Try looking up different types of ocd, see examples of different obsessions and compulsions, maybe check tags on Tumblr or even reach out to ocd specific accounts if they have asks or smth open. I’ve learned a lot from just sending people messages asking about it and hearing other people’s experiences with it. Maybe you could even write down things that you think could be symptoms, then maybe bring them up with your therapist? Say that it’s been worrying you and you’d like to talk through it? I don’t have a therapist so idk how it works, sorry

I’m sorry if this answer isn’t helpful. Again, I’m not a professional or even diagnosed with ocd, so most of my knowledge is based on researching the symptoms I personally seem to have. You’re welcome to dm me if you like, but I think there are probably people who would be way more helpful to talk to. ^^;;

Perhaps if anyone who has ocd sees this they can offer some input? Maybe comment, reblog or leave an ask? (Again, I’m rly sorry for not being able to provide a better answer.)

#sorry if this isn’t helpful or what you wanted #I’m still learning myself #ocd #obsessive compulsive disorder #pure o ocd #mental illness #mentally ill #neurodiverse #neurodivergency #neurodiversity #long post #nagichi asks

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insertsexualitypun · 4 years

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Ok so there’s some big continuity errors in terms of Hope’s age. Like did they retcon her age to be the same as the twins? Is she supposed to be graduating soon? Does Salvatore work differently than a regular school in that being a certain age or attending a certain amount of years doesn’t necessarily mean graduating at a set year? Hopefully this’ll all get explained soon by writers either directly or written into the show.

For now, we can safely assume the show will be predominantly based at Salvatore with everyone being a student, though.

But can I just say,,, I would LOVE a season closing with Hope either graduating in whatever capacity that means at Salvatore, OR leaving because she’s tired of having to be the hero/they lost someone in the process of fighting some monster or something and she goes back to NOLA. Tbh I’d prefer the second one bc Drama but that’s just me

Then, the next season opens and we get some catch-up time at the school but then - surprise surprise - some new Big Bad is discovered (probably after being hinted at at the end of the previous season) and they’re like “what are we going to do?” And they share a collective, knowing look.

Cut to shots of NOLA probably at night and there’s Rousseau’s and it’s busy as can be, night in the Quarter, people are living it up! We cut to a guy going up to the bar and being like “hey can I get two beers?” And the bartender turns around and GUESS WHAT it’s our favorite Tribrid and she’s like yeah sure and hands over the beers and he looks at her and asks “are you even old enough to be drinking let alone serving drinks?” and she goes “if you want your beers, yes” and he shrugs and walks off.

Then another guy walks up and sits down and asks for a whiskey and she’s like alright and she grabs the bottle and a glass and turns around and it’s Alaric and she’s like “what do you need, why are you here” and he says “what, can’t a guy just visit New Orleans and go to a bar” and Hope is like “if you weren’t you, I’d say yes but we both know there’s something else otherwise you’d be drinking in Mystic Falls.” And he tries to talk her into coming back and she’s like no I can’t, I don’t want anyone else getting hurt because of me. And he’s like alright but I’m in town for a few more days if you change your mind.

And there’s a prOPER SCENE BETWEEN FREYA AND HOPE (WITH MAYBE EVEN KEELIN AND NIK BUT LETS NOT PUSH OUR LUCK) where Hope is talking about it and they convince her to go because “we’ve missed you here, but you’d never be happy here while you’re thinking about how you could help them. And you can’t say you don’t care, because if that were true, you would’ve never brought this up and asked our opinion in the first place.”

And finally Hope meets Ric at his car and has a line like “If you say anything, you’re getting the silence spell the entire way there” and he just smiles and goes “good thing I packed snacks for two” and Hope is like “don’t push it”

And BOOM season whatever of Legacies starts.

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haec-est-fides · 3 years

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Filodox’s Trials of Apollo Reactions [Part I]

Welcome to part one of a reflective journey through Trials of Apollo ft. my original ebook annotations! I’ll be your host, 2020!filodox.

For this first episode, we’ll be going back to May 2016, the beginning of it all: The Hidden Oracle.

Annotations for this round are brought to you by 2016!filodox.

Is there anything we should know before we begin, 2016!me?

2016!filodox: I swore on the Styx never to read another Riordan book after he killed Octavian. And yet here we are.

... Alright then! Let’s get started.

But first, a more detailed overview on how this series will work: I will excerpt bits and pieces of the books based on what I highlighted / annotated on my first read. Beneath each quote, I will share what I wrote in the annotation. Below that, I will (occasionally) laugh at my past self, clarify the note, or say how my view has changed.

I encourage questions, comments, and concerns (of which there may be many), so go ahead and use that replies feature if you feel so inclined! However, these are just my opinions and (occasionally) emotional reactions, so no hate pls. <3 (Or, if you do send hate, pls make it funny.)

Now, diving right in with Riordan’s dedication!

To The Muse Calliope. This is long overdue. Please don’t hurt me.

2016!filodox: Hurt him. He didn’t even name the chapters.

As you can see, I had yet to experience Lester’s haiku and was already mad based on the table of contents alone. I went into this series very salty...

I inflicted a plague on the Greeks who besieged Troy.

2016!filodox: At least he did something right. Once.

I was just,,,extremely ready to die on Octavian’s hill. (Though I was a huge Troy / Aeneas stan before all this, just to be clear.)

Is anything sadder than the sound of a god hitting a pile of garbage bags?

2016!filodox: I actually find this particular god crashing into a dumpster quite amusing.

I also blamed Apollo for what happened to Octavian. I think that had a lot to do with how Apollo acted on Delos in Heroes of Olympus, basically disowning Octavian and whining about how some “creature” scammed him? That was bullshit. Apollo needed to own the fact that he blessed Octavian, but he just abandoned him and denied all the blame. TL;DR I had a grudge, okay?

My mind stewed in confusion, but one memory floated to the surface -- the voice of my father, Zeus: YOUR FAULT. YOUR PUNISHMENT.

2016!filodox: Wait, is this bc everyone blames Octavian and therefore Apollo? Bc lol but also no?

*cough* Octavian did nothing wrong 2k16 *cough*

Zeus will reconsider, I told myself. He’s just trying to scare me. Any moment, he will yank me back to Olympus and let me off with a warning.

“Yes...” My voice sounded hollow and desperate. “Yes, that’s it.”

2016!filodox: Apollo is a self centered frat boy, I forgot...but it is slightly...endearing? *narrows eyes*

Ah, how close I was to stanning Lester in the first chapter, when he was at his most “goddy”. You know, I actually made a rule for myself when I started reading Trials of Apollo that I would not under any circumstances stan Apollo. That was a naive goal, because it was never really a danger.

Regardless, Zeus had held me responsible for Octavian’s delusions of grandeur. Zeus seemed to consider egotism a trait the boy had inherited from me. Which is ridiculous. I am much too self-aware to be egotistical.

2016!filodox: I am going to Murder him.

*chef kiss* the hypocrisy ! the lack of self-awareness !

“I just...I assumed -- I hoped this would be taken care of by now.”

“You mean by demigods,” Percy said, “going on a big quest to reclaim the Oracle of Delphi?”

2016!filodox: That sounds like a decent quest, or you know, QUESTING FOR THE SIBYLLINE BOOKS

I’ve always said I can see the future but an inch to the left. Also, I don’t like Ella.

It warmed my heart that my children had the right priorities: their skills, their images, their views on YouTube. Say what you will about gods being absentee parents; our children inherit many of our finest personality traits.

2016!filodox: AND HE’S MAD ABOUT OCTAVIAN?!

I mean ?

Apollo, when Austin and Kayla show ambition: THEY GOT THAT FROM ME <3

Apollo, when Octavian (or Nero, or Caligula) shows ambition: srry i don’t know him ??

He had a weak jawline, an overlarge nose, and a beard that wrapped around his double chin like a helmet strap. His hair was curly and dark like mine, except not as fashionably tousled or luxuriant. His lips curled as if he smelled something unpleasant. Perhaps it was the burning seats of the bus.

2016!filodox: Nero ???

Not quite sure how to feel looking back at this moment. Call out post @ myself for instantly recognizing Nero, when afaik this scene was before we had any hints that Roman emperors were even a plot point? But here’s the thing: I don’t remember why I could recognize him so easily. I don’t remember where 2016!me obtained this ancient Rome knowledge. A mystery.

On another note entirely, did Nero really like,,,astral project into Apollo’s fever dream to address him directly? Because Rhea does. And sometimes Python does. But Nero? Can he do that?

The man laughed as flames licked at his purple sleeves. “You’re not sorry yet, but you will be. Find me the gates. Lead me to the Oracle. I’ll enjoy burning it down!”

2016!filodox: I too enjoy burning things down. # Nero confirmed

My only comment here is “oh you sweet summer child,,,”

Oh. Perhaps some of you are wondering how I felt seeing [Will] with a boyfriend rather than a girlfriend.

2016!filodox: No, actually. I wasn’t wondering. I was plotting how to kill you, them, and quite a few other people. Do you think I could trade you for Octavian?

Oh man, back at it again with the salt. XD

I could only remember my conversations with Octavian, the way he’d turned my head with his flattery and promises. That stupid boy...it was his fault I was here.

A voice whispered in the back of my mind. This time I thought it might be my conscience: Who was the stupid boy? It wasn’t Octavian.

2016!filodox: I can’t really...explain my emotions upon reading this. I’m still not quite okay, but this...it’s bittersweet in a way. I don’t know if this is a poor attempt at a proper closure, the author’s way of beating a dead horse, or just a way to make Apollo seem pitiable. Whatever it is... Octavian was important enough to remain in Apollo’s mortal memory. He somehow made promises to a god and had Apollo wrapped around his finger. And despite being so much like Apollo, the god blames him. Like everyone blames him. But Apollo also realizes, accepts on an infinitesimal scale, that “it wasn’t Octavian”. He wasn’t perfect, but neither is Apollo. Apollo is (at least) subconsciously admitting his own guilt in the whole affair.

...yeah. I will note that this bit isn’t meant to develop Octavian, but rather uses Octavian as a prop to support Apollo’s development? Which is why it still stings. Like thanks, I guess.

“Your judgement in the past has been...questionable. I wonder if you have chosen the right tools for this job. Have you learned from your past mistakes?”

2016!filodox: Nero has made plenty of mistakes to learn from

Love how I just assumed it was Nero back in chapter 10 and went with it, zero hesitation. Also love how I heard Python say Nero has made mistakes and went “oh absolutely”. In fact, here’s something funny in retrospect that will become more and more apparent: I did not like Nero in 2016. Or, at least, I thought I didn’t. There’s something really odd going on here that baffles me, looking back...

“A triumvirate is a ruling council of three,” I said. “At least, that’s what it meant in ancient Rome.”

“Which is interesting,” Rachel said, “because of this next shot.” She tapped her screen. The new photo zoomed in on the building’s penthouse terrace, where three shadowy figures stood talking together....

2016!filodox: Is it bad that I’m smirking? Because it’s getting interesting ~ *clear malicious intent*

Wow, edgy. Triumvirates are just a neat, Roman thing and I stanned.

“The last triumvirate I dealt with included Lepidus, Marc Antony, and my son, the original Octavian. A triumvirate is a very Roman concept...like patriotism, skullduggery, and assassination.”

2016!filodox: THIS IS WHAT I’VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE. MODERN OCTAVIAN IS A VERY GOOD ANCIENT ROMAN. POLITICS, ESPECIALLY SHADY AF POLITICS AND POWERPLAYS, ARE QUINTESSENTIALLY ROMAN. Also, I’d like to note that it’s confirmed, in this universe’s canon, that Augustus was a son of Apollo.

Ohhhh, wait. I think I’d watched the HBO series Rome by 2016, which would at least partially explain my ancient Rome knowledge. (Amazing tv show btw!)

“He heard them talking in Latin.”

“Latin? Were they campers?”

Pete spread his hands. “I--I don’t think so. Paulie described them like they were adults. He said one of them was the leader. The other two addressed him as imperator.”

2016!filodox: !!!! (obligatory 💕)

I was such a simp for Latin in high school. And the Roman Empire. Still am, but hey.

“The Beast is planning some kind of attack on your camp. I don’t know what it is, but it’s going to be big.”

2016!filodox: Runs in the family I guess

The Octavian / Triumvirate parallels are everywhere... 👀

“The emperors made themselves gods. They had their own temples and altars. They encouraged the people to worship them.”

2016!filodox: # deify me

*smacking my past self with a stick* You stop that! Edgy child!

Anyway, a much better point here is like,,,the Imperial cult was huge in the ancient Roman world. Looking at Apollo’s explanation here, why did only the “worst” three emperors get to be immortal? Did famously “good” emperors like Augustus and Marcus Aurelius have the option of becoming minor gods, but they chose Elysium or something? Are there slightly less infamous emperors just hanging around anywhere as minor gods? A lot of Roman emperors live on in human memory is all I’m saying.

“Wait!” Will said as I reached the door. “Who is the Beast? Which emperor are we dealing with?”

“The worst of my descendants.” My fingers dug into the doorframe. “The Christians called him the Beast because he burned them alive. Our enemy is Emperor Nero.”

2016!filodox: I honestly can’t believe it took this long to reveal this? Was anyone surprised?

Nero’s reveal is rather late in the book compared to Commodus, Caligula, and even Tarquin iirc? But it makes sense, being the first book of the series. Also love how 16-year-old me was like “this reveal is silly because everyone, like me, recognizes Nero on sight” and didn’t question that assumption at all.

“Germani.” Instinctively, I moved in front of Meg. The elite imperial bodyguards had been cold-blooded death reapers in ancient Rome. I doubted they’d gotten any sweeter over the centuries.

2016!filodox: BITCH. See? This is why I love Rome. They knew what they were doing.

Ngl, as someone of Germanic heritage, I felt really represented by the Germani, which is hilarious on so many levels.

He tried to compensate for his ugliness with an expensive Italian suit of purple wool, his gray shirt open to display gold chains. His shoes were hand-tooled leather, not the sort of thing to wear while stomping around in an ant pile. Then again, Nero had always had expensive, impractical tastes.

2016!filodox: I don’t exactly like Nero, and actually think he was quite the shitty emperor, but I guess I mildly respect and “like” him on principle (in this book at least).

OH YOU SWEET SUMMER CHILD. I was so convinced that I didn’t actually like Nero, despite all of the lowkey evidence to the contrary? Who hurt you, past me? (Lmao, it was Tacitus, Suetonius, and Cassius Dio.) My working theory is that I was too much of an Emperor Augustus stan at the time to admit liking Nero. It’s hysterical. Look at me equivocating like a champ.

I’d been so proud of my son, the original Octavian, later Caesar Augustus. After his death, his descendants became increasingly arrogant and unstable (which I blamed on their mortal DNA; they certainly didn’t get those qualities from me).

2016!filodox: I’m glad Apollo and I can agree on something. Augustus was amazing and those who came after him...significantly less so.

See! The propaganda really got to me, what can I say?

Nero clasped his hands as if in prayer. “Oh, my. It seems we’ve had a slight miscommunication. You see, Apollo, Meg brought you here, just as I asked her to. Well done, my sweet.”

2016!filodox: This was obvious but I still find it...gods, the only word I can think of is “delicious”

. . .

“The Beast killed my father. This is Nero. He’s -- he’s my stepfather.”

I could not fully grasp this before Nero spread his arms.

“That’s right, my darling,” he said. “And you’ve done a wonderful job. Come to Papa.”

2016!filodox: Okay, but we should have known this since it became apparent her weapons were Roman. Also, oof. Also also, WHY did Riordan feel the need to add that last line? Why?

ASDFGHJKL: I CAN’T

“After the fire, we’ll rebuild,” he said. “It will be glorious!”

2016!filodox: The amount of times I have used this very logic is worrying.

For (some) context, Firelord Ozai is my favorite character from AtLA. <3

The scene might have been funny except that the Germani were now back on their feet, five demigods and a geyser spirit were still tied to highly flammable posts, and Nero still had a box of matches.

2016!filodox: Oh, I find this plenty amusing!

The emperor stared at his empty hand. “Meg...?” His voice was as cold as an icicle.

2016!filodox: The various ways his tone / voice have been described throughout this conversation are just 💕

*looks at camera like I’m on The Office*

Seriously, though. Nero’s voice is like the central descriptive element of his character because he’s so manipulative. It’s really cool and a great use of detail.

[Meg] turned to Nero. “You told me never to lower myself to my enemies’ level.”

“No, indeed.” Nero’s tone had frayed like a weathered rope. “We are better. We are stronger. We will build a glorious new world. But these nonsense-spewing trees stand in our way, Meg. Like any invasive weeds, they must be burned. And the only way to do that is with a true conflagration -- flames stoked by blood.”

2016!filodox: Real 👏🏻 Gods 👏🏻 Require 👏🏻 Blood👏🏻

I was way too enthusiastic about this whole situation, wasn’t I?

Nero grinned. “Good-bye, Apollo. Only eleven more Olympians to go.”

2016!filodox: Wait, shit, WHAT

Having read Tower of Nero, this probably had something to do with Python interfering with the Fates, huh? But does that mean it’s more Python’s plan or Nero’s? If this was Nero’s plan (with his 12 kids literally replacing the Olympians) that’s,,,really fucking bold.

Then I heard the screaming from Camp Half-Blood.

2016!filodox: Music to my ears ~

I’m presenting every edgy detail of my annotations so I have a proper case file when I inevitably have to face the question “On a scale of one to ten, how relatable is Emperor Nero and why should you have realized it’s a ten sooner?”

In a flash of silver light, the camp’s magical barriers collapsed. The Colossus lurched forward and brought his foot down on the dining pavilion, smashing it to rubble like so many children’s blocks.

2016!filodox: Payback! Dear gods, I can’t stop smiling! I’m just like “YES!” I know this will all probably get fixed or whatever but I’M HAVING A MOMENT.

I’ve learned to appreciate the small wins. <3

Percy grabbed one of the crown’s sunray spikes. He sliced it off at the base, then jabbed it into the Colossus’ forehead.

2016!filodox: As much as Nero is FAR from my favorite, I really don’t like defacing ancient (or replicas of ancient) statues and art...

This is where I just start laughing at myself tbh. I was so insistent on not liking Nero. Like, I sound like I’m in denial. Peak equivocation. What happened to that heart emoji a few chapters back? Why did I suddenly make it about *checks notes* ancient art? Updated translation: nooo don’t ruin the Colossus Neronis it’s so sexy aha

Just as the [arrow] reached its apex and was about to fall back to earth, a gust of wind caught it...perhaps Zephyros looking kindly on my pitiful attempt. The arrow sailed into the Colossus’ ear canal and rattled in his head with a clink, clink, clink like a pachinko machine.

2016!filodox: HOW MANY EX MACHINAS IS THIS ?! The dryads, the arrow, Percy, the enchantment, and THIS ?

One of my criticisms of Trials of Apollo in general is just that the stakes are so much higher and Riordan usually solves that problem by having his heroes win on long odds. The chances of them succeeding at like,,,anything they attempt are astronomical, but of course they manage. It’s not surprising but it does get a little tiring.

“Yo, Nico,” Leo called, “please tell me that’s it for the physical abuse.”

“For now.” Nico smiled. “We’re still trying to get in touch with the West Coast. You’ll have a few dozen people out there who will definitely want to hit you.”

2016!filodox: Oh I’d love to hit him. With the flaming, Imperial gold payload of an onager. Preferably WITHOUT the Pontifex Maximus attached to it -- unless of course you mean the false pontifex, Jason Grace.

Leo was the salt in the wound for this one, ngl. He rekindled my undying ire over Octavian’s death. As I said at the beginning of this, I was extremely ready to die on Octavian’s hill after Heroes of Olympus. That sentiment sticks around for a while...

And we can call that a wrap!

Though it may seem like it, my annotations are not, in fact, a compilation of Nero’s greatest hits. There are a lot of scenes of his that I love (naturally) but I didn’t have anything to say about them when I first read the series. Maybe I’ll share those another time.

In any case, I hope you got something out of this ridiculously long post! Until next time! <3

#trials of apollo #toa #filodox!#I don't know what any of you were expecting but this is what I've got #no these are not all of my annotations #I tried to pick the best ones #oh also #I'm sorry to everyone with hard copies of the books #since I have ebooks it's no problem to search for quotes and page numbers are imaginary #if you want me to put chapters with the quotes I can

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mittensmorgul · 4 years

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Unpopular opinion: Portraying Sam and Dean as worthless, incompetent hunters who learned nothing from their father's training or a lifetime of hunting bc it was all God is disrespecful as hell. Sam and Dean are--well, were, I guess--heroes who stood up to monsters, angels and demons as ordinary people. Tonight destroyed all of that.

I mean, I’d agree with you, if I thought that was actually what the show had done. Sam and Dean currently BELIEVE that, and are making choices based on that assumption, but is it actually true?

I can’t believe it is. I think they’ve made an incorrect assumption, and are going to “pay a price” for having made a bad choice based on that belief...

Because we’ve been shown that’s how Chuck arranges things. That’s how he “tells his stories.”

When in the previous episode, Chuck’s final words to Sam were the statement that Sam had “lost hope,” and the pronouncement that Sam and Dean weren’t the heroes of the story; and when Dean stood up to him and said he and Sam would never “perform” the story Chuck wanted to see them act out (like “all the other Sams and Deans” eventually did in all his other universes), it was like they’d thrown down a gauntlet for him. Dean PUNCHED CHUCK IN THE FACE. That was the gauntlet-slap.

To me, this episode felt like Chuck’s petty (and rather crackpot) attempt to manipulate them into believing that this is what they truly are without his Divine Cosmic Help, and honestly, THAT is what I am calling bullshit on. The show is practically BEGGING us to see that.

I mean, if Dean had had ONE cavity, I could buy it was just bad luck. If Baby had ONE bad spark plug, I could buy it was just a normal sort of problem that normal people face. But the sheer number of failures they experienced went so far beyond “normal” as to be cartoonish. No normal person has EVER had a day like that. But the fact that Sam and Dean were so willing to BELIEVE it, even after Dean had been convinced at the beginning of the episode that they were CURSED... he let Sam (and Garth, and Bess) talk him OUT of that conviction.

Dean: No. No, no, no. This is -- this is more than just a no good very bad day, okay? Chuck must have boned us before He left, you know. Or maybe some of that crap you brought back from Rowena's went sideways. Because this. This is not normal.

But by the end of the episode, Dean was beginning to believe that this was very much their “new normal.” To the point where he’s willing to drive to Alaska and pay whatever price to get back their “lost luck.” And honestly, THAT WAS THE POINT. It’s shaken DEAN’S WILL, his BELIEF IN HIMSELF. Which is pretty much the ONLY weapon he had against Chuck in the first place.

Honestly, to me, the thing that convinced me that they were actively being hindered (i.e. that Chuck was actively working to PREVENT them from succeeding at anything on their own) was the fact that not even their reputation as The Winchesters was worth anything to the monster fighty dude. Not even the vast over-preparedness they went into that warehouse with was enough to give them ANY sort of advantage.

They weren’t “normal,” they were DOOMED TO FAIL, because Chuck was proving a point. A point they willingly bought into, despite the overwhelming evidence that they were being specifically held back from succeeding, at anything.

They’re still struggling to understand exactly how Chuck is capable of interfering with their lives. And while I appreciate Dean admitting that their choices have been their own, and not everything about their lives was down to Chuck, the fact that he let himself be talked out of the conviction that Chuck “boned” them before leaving (lol as if Chuck would leave NOW, when things just began to get interesting for him again, just when he’s untethered himself from Sam and can finally “see” the Winchesters again) means he’s still subject to Chuck’s terrible plot...

So I agree with you. If that had been the point of the episode, it would’ve been a bunch of bullshit. If the episode hadn’t included all the references to all the “we are literally actually cursed” episodes, and all the “we are directly being manipulated by cosmic forces” episodes... I mean...

literally actually cursed:

3.03 Bad Day At Black Rock: The rabbits foot gave them ACTUAL GOOD LUCK. Their good luck was so entirely OTT that Dean joked he was Batman. They easily identified it as ridiculous levels of good luck. Until they lost the foot (because EVERYONE loses the foot, it’s part of the CURSE). Their luck didn’t go back to normal, it went cosmically, horribly BAD. So bad, Bobby told them, “you’re dead within a week.” Because that was how the curse worked. Their entire lives haven’t been “lucky.” And Dean would normally be the first person to admit that. His first instinct in this episode was to wonder if he’d been subjected to a similar curse because of how comically bad his luck had turned.

5.08 Changing Channels: the first clue was all the “Seriously? SERIOUSLY?” stuff at the beginning. I was half expecting Sam to get slapped in the face and called a “brilliant coward.” But we even got a NUTCRACKER! callback, only this time it was Dean that took the shot to the crotch... Not just the comic gags of the episode, though, but the Bigger Plot of how and why they were being put through all those tv shows, being forced to LEARN A LESSON, of Gabriel messing with them and pushing them into PLAYING THEIR ROLES, and ACCEPTING THEIR DESTINY. Please tell me that’s not EXACTLY the lesson Chuck would want them to learn after 15.09.

3.11 Mystery Spot: or that one where NOTHING Sam did, no matter how many chances he was given to replay that day, could’ve saved Dean. Sam was nerfed. Effectively rendered powerless against the story, and in the “dark half” of the episode was driven on a misguided revenge quest against the Trickster. Sam couldn’t even begin to see the bigger picture, and believed that just because he’d broken free of the “time loop” that he was actually engaging with reality, that Dean was actually perma-dead, and had isolated himself from all his friends and gone off the rails in his single-minded trek to hunt down the monster that had done this to him... all the while he was focused on the wrong thing and was still trapped in the “make-believe scenario” Gabriel had established for him. Because, golly, that sounds like the exact spot they’re in RIGHT NOW, having been convinced that their run of bad luck is the direct result of Chuck NOT interfering in their lives, casting them as the “heroes” of his story. And I don’t believe that’s what has happened, at all. I believe Chuck is more focused on them, directly, than he ever has been before.

Heck, I wrote this post before the episode aired, and I stand by it 100%:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/190429024710/episodes-i-expect-1510-to-remind-me-of-based-on

Because Sam and Dean haven’t had “hero status” stripped from them. Chuck is WAY too petty to just “give up the story” and render his main characters inept all of a sudden. Sam and Dean are still “his guys.” They’re still the main characters of an obsessive writer who’s directly fighting against their will. This is like... the inverse of 4.18, where Chuck “wrote himself into the story.” This is his reaction to his characters declared intent to “write themselves OUT of his story,” to DEFY his story. This is Chuck’s idea of petty revenge for using their free will against him.

In that context, the context of the larger arc of s15, this is like... textbook illustration of how Chuck has been grinding down their will, pushing them to make Terrible Choices against their own better judgment, because that’s where he wanted the story to go. I think we need to keep that in mind, that the story ITSELF is the big bad, and Chuck’s just had all his powers restored to him. Assuming he wouldn’t immediately put those powers to their full use at his first available opportunity is just... daffy.

Dabb has been writing Looney Tunes since 8.08. I’ve been writing Looney Tunes meta since at least as far back as s11:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/144577425855/chuck-amuck

I will point to the WB cartoon that I believe Dabb has been framing Chuck’s character around all along: Duck Amuck (I’ve embedded other versions on tumblr before, but they always get taken down because copyright... so have a link to where you can watch it... I swear it’s worth the time: https://dai.ly/x5yczh1

And this is what Chuck is trying to convince Sam and Dean is their current situation:

when what they need to recognize, and what Chuck DESPERATELY needs them to keep them from realizing, as long as he can continue pushing them to “we had no other choice” scenarios and distract them from just rejecting his story entirely, is this:

#spn s15 spoilers #spn 15.10 #chuck's process #sometimes i compare this show to einstein and sartre and sometimes it's all just looney tunes #Anonymous

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notesofarichlycolorednight · 6 years

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Hi,pal! I'm loving "It's the perfect story"! However, the subject I'm talking about doesn't directly to the fic. By what I know, people don't hate Silena because she was the spy,it's more like they think her being seduced/manipulated into doing it is detracting to her character. Many posts say that's very insulting to teen girls, or her cause should be something like "her cabin was being disrespected"(out of character IMO, but I'll talk about it later)...

Continuation. Or “the demigods were being mistreated by the gods”(not a bad one,but Silena didn’t really feel the worst of the gods IMO. Not like Luke, Chris or Tori in the fic). People are entitled to their opinions, but I disagree. About the “disrespected cabin stuff”,Silena is defensive in a blunt, straightforward way when it happens. Examples: how she wanted to fight the Huntresses when they said love was worthless;or when people were surprised by her magic knowledge,and she looked offended.

Cont. Besides, those behaviors show that Silena can be quite passionate and proud, what probably made her vulnerable to manipulation(her romantic nature didn’t help). Besides, Silena herself thought she was saving lives. I believe Luke’s words would sound truer to her if she cared about him than from a dispassionate perspective. Besides, if Luke managed to lure Percy to near death with a friendly smile and soda,despite Percy’s instincts saying no,I believe he could do it to Silena…

Cont. By what I read, your only issue was the age. However, I think that was something like “death of the author” in canon,as she didn’t get one. In fact, I rather like the idea of Silena being an older camper,including than Charles(if 18 years old girls date boys in their 20’s…),both in canon and in your fic. In your fic,it could make her Tori ’ s peer. In canon,it’d fit the whole “role model” stuff we had going on HoO.

what’s up dude! thanks, i’m glad to hear you’re enjoying it!

that’s how i interpreted it when i read the books (or how i remember interpreting it, at least, i haven’t read the series in a while) like, being the spy meant she was a traitor, which is also a comment abt her character (i.e., may she’s not the greatest person–for the lack of a better word–bc she was a traitor). when clarisses declares she’s a hero, i assumed it was supposed to be juxtaposed to her being a traitor. which is a roundabout way to say that the ultimate end is the same, whereas the perspective is different? but i can see where others are coming from–that the campers would be more mad bc of the fact that she was easily manipulated by luke, rather than her being the spy

i guess i can see where ppl are coming from regarding it being an insult to teen girls (i’d really like to see those posts tho, bc i actually haven’t seen anyone talk abt that–i somehow manage to avoid discourse like we’re two opposing magnets, my d-list x-men power), bc it plays off the stereotype that teen girls are so boy crazy, they’re easily manipulated by any good-looking guy that smiles in their direction. it doesn’t help that she’s a child of aphrodite. and what i mean by that is, i think, ppl often water down what aphrodite is the goddess of. when ppl say, “she’s the goddess of love and beauty” ppl often think she’s the goddess of, “being vain and romantic/sexual love” (not true btw, fite me, i will gladly jump into that discourse)

but anyway, back to my main point, i can see how it may play off a teen girl stereotype (rick is good at doing that sometimes, which isn’t entirely his fault, bc like i said abt toxic masculinity, it’s so ingrained in our society, it’s hard to unlearn and we often fall into those stereotypes if we’re not fully aware of them and consciously thinking about them), but i also don’t entirely agree with that argument, either

now i could be wrong, esp since i haven’t read any of this discourse, so i haven’t read ppl’s reasoning or arguments, but it sounds very surface-level White Feminism™ and what i mean by that is that there are more grey areas to this argument, okay, so put away your pitchforks and put out your torches and, i mean, also that this argument is coming from ppl who want to seem like they’re woke, but then turn around and continue to do or say things that are insidiously bigoted

like i said, i can see how it plays into a stereotype, but if we’re going by rick’s canon (which we totally don’t have to, but for this argument’s sake we are) she’s young and impressionable, luke is handsome and charming–if another young person were in her position, we’d probably see the same thing. young ppl are easy to manipulate, they just are. they’re still learning abt the world, and how it works, and that maybe not everyone has good intentions. not to mention they’re still trying to find themselves, and they look to peers, mentors, and ppl who are respected (for whatever reason) for cues to how they should act and think. it’s like trying on clothes or taste-testing foods–they’re trying out opinions. if they don’t like the “taste” of an opinion, then they learn, grow, and change. some ppl instantly connect with an opinion (which could be bigoted or not) and not explore further, or could be sheltered and just not have the opportunity to experience anything else.

the opinion here: the gods are bad. the person she’s looking to for guidance: luke. plain and simple

and, as you say anon, percy even fell for luke’s charms (despite the warning signs!! and percy is most def Not Straight, so luke was also using that fact against percy as well, whether rick luke knew it or not). so, ya know, there ya go

now, i think rick chose a child of aphrodite, and a girl, bc he thought he was turning a trope on its head–you’d never expect (from the stereotype of what aphrodite stands for) silena to be a spy, to work for kronos of all ppl titans. do you see what i mean? i think he was going for an elle woods effect–except in the polar opposite direction. the ends is the same, where this girl who is often underestimated (like elle) turns out to do something no one expected of her (in silena’s case, being the spy, which takes a lot of guts, nerve, and smarts–the opposite of what ppl expect from aphrodite, based on a reductive stereotype)

and that’s where the real issue lies, not that she was a teen girl, but rather some of the decisions the author made under wrong assumptions

i agree that the alternatives aren’t as sincere or make as much sense. silena didn’t experience a whole lot of strife regarding her mom or the gods in general, so she’d have no reason to hate them as luke does–she’d have no reason to be the spy for luke if he were to simply use that argument to get her to kronos’s side. and maybe she would’ve joined kronos under “her cabin was being disrespected,” however, it was’t being disrespected by the gods themselves, right? not like the minor gods, not like nemesis or hecate. the disrespect comes more from the ppl around her–the ppl who assume the wrong things abt aphrodite when they hear the words “love” and “beauty.” so that alternative reason doesn’t hold a lot of water if you really think abt it

i also agree with you: that her passion and pride made her more easily manipulated, and also that luke’s words would mean more coming from a more passionate and personal perspective. luke fed her lines that played into her character (like how kronos fed luke lines that played into his hatred for the gods). if she felt passionate abt helping save ppl (and it’s coming from someone she likes, someone she looks up to), then she’d be the spy for sure. if she had a crush on luke, more for him to use against her, right? that’s just how it goes sometimes, ya know? her crush are her rose-colored glasses, add that on top of “you’d be saving lives” and, well, luke’s got her wrapped around kronos’s finger

yeah, the age thing is a big sticking point for me, just bc based on the timeline of things, she’s several years younger than luke (which make his kiss, in my story, really gross). if beckendorf was going to college during tlo, he was probably at the least 18, and silena was probably around the same age. by this time, luke is 23, so that means that she’s abt 5 years younger? is five years a huge deal between older ppl (like mid- to late-twenties and beyond)? not at all. but with younger ppl (teens and early twenties), it’s a HUGE gap in age, and a HUGE deal.

but like you say, i think rick is hitting that point of “death of the author” (esp with more recent events…btw, jason is totally alive and well, and if you think or try to tell me differently, then you can meet me in a denny’s parking lot at 3am), so we can totes not follow canon and age both silena and beckendorf up. not to mention, there’s no specific age that ppl go to college (just in general most ppl starting college are from 17-20) so it’s completely fine for beckendorf to be going to college at 22, 23. and a 2 yr age difference (regarding beckendorf at 20, dating silena at 18) is totes better than a 5 yr difference for sure

i really like tori and silena being peers, and i if i had been more comfortable breaking canon (and knew what i know now, then), it would’ve been fun to write (but eeeyyy, it’s fun to think abt, so there may be headcanons in your future regarding this). finally, you’re right, i think it would make “silena as a role model” so much more powerful if she had been/was older in canon

thanks for sending these in! i had a lot of fun talking and thinking abt all the points you brought up/made, and i hope to continue this discussion, if you want!

#oh god for shame! i do not even know your name #notesofananonymousnight #asked and answered #silena beauregard #pjo meta #washingdad writes

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elizabethrobertajones · 7 years

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About Destiel... Someone close to me who loves Spn and chat with me and all that but doesn't involve in Tumblr, or fanarts or whatever bc of man stereotypes (those are crap, really) told me yesterday that Dean was egocentric. I was like Are you fúcking kidding me, but he explained that there is a very thin line between hate and love, and for Dean to hate himself he had to have loved himself before, or something like that. I think it's interesting, so i wanted to know your opinion about this

Pfft, Tumblr cooties.

I have to say I didn’t expect that logic to go where it did :P

I think Dean has a lot of anxiety and obvious self-esteem issues, but if I was going to look at him as being egocentric I’d be much more interested in examining his personal relationships than that… I’ve been musing on this while drinking my morning coffee (and sorry, this is going to be a headache & coffee reply :P) and thinking about Dean would ever have loved himself for that to turn into hate by that logic.

I could think of 2 suggestions for how you could get to self-hate from there - the acceptably selfish love he’d have learned for himself as a kid while Mary was still alive (someone deserving of hugs and having the crusts cut off his sandwiches) and would have been destroyed under the burden of having to put himself second or third in the family unit, especially to Sam, once they’re on the road and he’s sort of raising Sam as the stand-in mother from age 4 onwards… Dean suffers from more and more extreme arcs about the loss of self, but the first “version” of Dean is one he lost early on and might have been the only Dean really able to uncomplicatedly love himself and believe himself worthy of that love, even if it’s in that way where to a 4 year old of course they’re the centre of the universe :P

There’s also a more complex thought I had and sorry, this is first thing in the morning for me so I hope I can explain properly… (Also this reply gets really long because of that… Sorry :P)

Looking at Dean’s self-loathing backwards, in how he ever expresses positive things about himself, I’m coming up mostly with all the snarky cutesy comments about how awesome he is and so on, which is pretty much always a great big helping of performing Dean. His self-worth is tied a lot into being a hunter (and he is occasionally sincerely proud of himself there), but overall that’s another persona, and the one he grew up into instead of the happy Dean with a normal childhood who might not have so many reasons to hate himself (Dean in 2x20, what you can gather about his personal life in the dream, is still completely affected by Dean’s own perception of himself so I don’t think it’s good data on how he’d live his life if he grew up with no monsters).

Performing Dean, which that sequence at the end of 3x10 still shows best of any moment in the show, is all (when it comes down to it) something Dean acts under the expectation of what John would want or self-policed by what he thinks John would approve of. There’s an idealised version of Dean in his own head who is basically John or what Dean thinks John would have wanted him to be, and Dean’s lack of self-esteem is sometimes (dramatically) expressed in relation to feeling like he’s disappointed this spectre of John’s memory, and a great deal of his self-loathing comes from falling short of these standards. He’s definitely got better over time and learned to express himself more (by Dean standards) but his progress is always being interrupted, and this is such a core part of Dean I don’t think he can ever completely change it without altering his life in such a way there wouldn’t even be a show any more :P It’s not strictly “love” but it’s an idealised version of himself and also a key part of Dean’s sense of self and at least in the early seasons (before 3x10 let’s say :P) the version of himself he would want to love and live up to.

Anyway… idk about linking any of that directly to Dean being egocentric? I mean, that’s a reading you can make of him, I’m just not sure what part it plays. I should probably say immediately that I think Dean is very empathetic, and so that necessarily means in general he’s putting himself in others’ shoes when we’re looking at generic interpersonal relationships, plus the whole saving people thing, mean anything else I talk about, I’m giving Dean huge allowances here because I do think he’s kind and IN GENERAL puts others first, all the time.

I know I have a tag about Dean being the centre of the universe, but for the most part I treat that as a joke on Dean where he doesn’t know it. On the other hand, the one major major time he exerts that power, in 5x22, he absolutely makes the entire apocalypse about him and his feelings and his need to talk to Sam before Michael and Lucifer fight, and uses that to save the world, so… Idk :P It’s not strictly a bad thing at all on a grand scale? Staying in season 5 for a minute (and sorry, Superwiki is not working right now so no quotes >.>), 5x11 explores Dean’s sense of the burden of the entire planet, and I think you could argue either way that he has an altruistic sense of having to save everyone, or focus on the “but why does it have to be him” thing, about how much he’s internalised that burden and in a way made it about himself. I feel like between his conditioning growing up to save people (and in season 1 he was altruistically the “saving people” side of “saving people hunting things” while Sam was the latter and revenge-focused) and the huge burdens the world puts on him, I don’t really think it’s fair to consider that Dean just happened to absorb this message because he’d be inclined to the idea of the world being on his shoulders, but that he is what the world made him especially with all the talk of Destiny and the feeling like no one else is remotely stuck in the cross hairs like they are. His reaction to being resurrected in 4x02 is skin-crawling horror that he’s been centred out for this sort of attention. When in big plot situations, his response can be read as egocentric, it’s not necessarily a criticism, especially as Dean is usually right, and it mostly gets the job done.

… Dealing with people, though. Idk, then it gets tricky :P Dean’s got a very strong moral centre and he expects others to hold up to his standards all the time. (I just watched through the end of season 6, and for example Dean arguing with Cas after the reveal is asking Cas to trust him and do as Dean says just because Dean believes it’s completely right and Cas is wrong. He doesn’t have any answers to help Cas this late in the game when they’re so deep into all these plans and disaster is looming and they’re out of time to deal with it, but in a way it’s almost like in 4x21 where Bobby’s telling Dean that Sam will die if they keep detoxing him, and Dean yells that at least Sam will die human - better to go out honourably than to betray yourself/Dean’s expectations of you. Being the moral core of the group DOES make it revolve around Dean’s principles, especially as he has a natural leadership to him and he can get used to what he says, goes. Like, in the latest episode, he makes the deal with Billie, and expects it to be about him when it comes to time to die… Mary getting between that abruptly shatters Dean’s centrality there, because the family unit is bigger than Dean and with so many more people involved in it, Mary and Cas hog all the drama of that moment, and in a way Dean only brought it to them. (And Sam, who only agreed to the deal, aside from badgering Dean to talk about it and getting shut down because Dean would clearly not want Sam to be the one to die, is also most used to operating under Dean’s rules and as the assumed survivor in Dean’s ideal scenario for that deal, had basically nothing to do with it aside from agreeing to a sketchy blood pact in the first place >.>)

Anyway watching through as far as I have (just watched 7x03) I do feel like I’ve been watching Dean’s moral authority grow and grow - as a response to trauma and to all the unimaginable situations he’s found himself in. Like the other characters, all the stuff that got them to the finish line in season 5, once in season 6 becomes much more dangerous and under the microscope for character development in a different way as the story switches from being sort of mythical to more about the interpersonal stuff. Dean by 7x03 has been shaken up by the ongoing problems with Sam, and Cas’s betrayal, and monsters that they don’t know how to kill, to the sort of place where his need for control, which was nurtured by all the apocalypse arc stuff by putting the burden directly on him, kind of now is definitely crossing over from a positive to neutral character trait to a definitely bad one… Honestly I feel like him ditching Sam and driving off to kill Amy because he doesn’t trust Sam is the real moment Dean snaps and sets off his arc that eventually leads to the Mark of Cain stuff, or Gadreel, which were all about Dean’s sense of control and his problems maintaining it that all play into his downfall arc as demon!Dean. (I honestly believe he’s so much more well-balanced in season 11 and 12 after all the character development Dean went through in season 10 - he was getting alarmingly zen and full of self-acceptance just before they pushed him back over the edge… although it really needs a long view on it, like, I wasn’t certain for sure until 11x23 about how this was going for Dean, and he keeps doing stuff like these deals so it’s sort of like… he’s getting BETTER I’m not saying he’s perfect now :P)

Anyway when it comes to Destiel, which I guess was the original reason you asked this based on your opening line… I think Dean DOES sometimes come across as egocentric - times when he puts himself or his problems first (the worst example being kicking Cas out of the Bunker). I’ve seen it argued a lot that Dean doesn’t really understand Cas to a certain level of Cas being vulnerable and/or someone he can really hurt this way, mostly because he has expectations literally to high Heaven about what Cas is and what he can do, and Cas is getting more and more human (only sometimes literally) but Dean has a lot of trouble bringing Cas down to his level. That “applications for sainthood” line about Dean and relationships is one of the best for looking at Dean and interpersonal relationships. That mixes HIS expectations (the egocentric side) with adoration and an expectation from others that he projects onto them, which is a much more selfless love but I guess no less dangerous when it comes to people disappointing him, because it comes as a blow to his entire world view. Like in 6x20 where Dean refused so long to think that Cas would betray them. Not just because Dean selfishly thinks everyone should do what he says (which is how it can come across) but because he truly believes those he loves would not do bad things. (Which also can explain his really extreme reactions to the bad stuff Sam does and Dean’s absolute reactions to it. In 4x22 when Dean’s moping about Sam to Bobby, Bobby calls Dean out on sounding like his father, which I think says a lot about where this behaviour in general comes from, again, all the absolutes and black and white thinking.)

Anyway Dean said himself in 11x23 to Cas in the beer run, that he and Sam can get very caught up in their own stuff and forget to care about the things outside their problems, acknowledging how Cas had got a bit left to the wayside. I think that means Dean does genuinely struggle with this - and it’s now finally something that maybe they can really address after it was allowed to escalate so far over many seasons… historically almost every time there’s something wrong with Cas, Dean is slow on the uptake or it comes to smack him in the face he can’t be objective about it and generally makes the situation worse before it gets better (or swept under the rug into the growing pile of trauma Cas deals with >.>)…

Now we’re getting some real Cas-focused episodes/a whole arc, and Cas’s problems are really out there again, I hope that means for Dean getting to face them properly as well and NOT reacting in the same way he often does. If there are far fewer issues around because all the plot has de-escalated a bit, HOPEFULLY that will let him focus on stuff outside himself? Like, though he didn’t react great to Cas leaving afterwards, when Cas actually announced he was going, Sam and Dean chased after him, and it was clear in that moment Dean genuinely was tuned in to something being up with Cas and without any other major problems to worry about that could take priority over that, and was concerned about Cas.

I’m really hoping when it comes to Dean’s awareness of Cas’s issues he’s just had a huge wake up call, especially about how much Cas cares about them all, and while that was all about “the Winchesters” the show endlessly puts Dean n Cas just a little notch above everything else in that dynamic (Dean getting the more dramatic reaction to seeing Cas, sitting with him in the car, being the one to phone him, Sam as an outside observer to that and what Dean did and didn’t tell Cas… Even when all the language seemed to be very generically about the family as a whole, they are still singled out within it…)

But yeah, I’m not at all a bitter Cas fan who thinks Dean is cruel to Cas so I’m saying this out of wanting them to be better than they already are, not like this is a barrage of accusations levelled at Dean for being self-centred :P I try to always follow both their perspectives on a thing because there’s always huge misunderstandings. And sadly when Dean has a misunderstanding with Cas he often lashes out at him, and that also makes it look in a lot of circumstances like Dean is being self-centred, where from his perspective he feels just as wronged by Cas and is already desperate and angry when they start a conversation (still thinking of season 6 and I guess their epic miscommunication in the end of season 7, or Dean’s lack of understanding in season 8 after the crypt scene, which is a moment that piles on a huge mess Dean’s already feeling so he doesn’t react out of the blue to randomly be angry with Cas when he shows up again…) Dean’s kind of terrible all round at interpersonal relationships… I’m very sympathetic to him there so it doesn’t upset me as long as I can understand WHERE he’s gone wrong.

… I should probably stop talking here because I have no idea what you actually wanted here but I have been spewing way too many thoughts at you to no real conclusion… This reply is way too long but I can’t think how to cut it down aside from just not making entire points or not answering :P

#Asks #Dean analysis #long post for ts #erk :P

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groundramon · 6 years

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Hm, you know, the more I think about it, the more I hate everything about Ren and Stimpy and its existence and its effect on popular culture. I honestly can’t believe how contrary Ren and Stimpy is to pretty much everything I value in a story. Yes it’s had some good impacts but honestly? I blame it for the reason I can hardly find western animation that interests me.

First off I’m gonna say I’m gonna be harsh here because I have no respect for the creator. He’s a piece of shit. However I have nothing against fans and especially not against people who enjoyed it while growing up. I didn’t watch it as a kid, but I did watch the cartoons (looney toons, tom and jerry, ect) that inspired it and its existence. So I guess call me a hypocrite for liking those, idk? But there’s a reason those weren’t originally made for television.

You see, Tom and Jerry and the Looney Toons were designed as pre-movie shorts in theaters. I don’t know exactly how these shorts worked in regards to making profits, but my point is that their original intended purpose and profit was more akin to a pixar movie than Spongebob. Television animation is much different than movie animation for a reason. Movies directly make their profit based on how many people watch the movie. That’s how profits work.

I don’t know if that’s how television works. I know advertisers pay more money to have their advertisements during prime time hours or during big events, but I don’t believe that the amount of money they pay changes after the advertisement is aired. I really don’t know, but based on what I’ve heard, that’s how it works.

That’s why, for years, animated kids shows were primarily long commercials. Pretty much all 80s and early 90s cartoons were just toy commercials meant to market toys to kids.

Educational TV was one response to this, to create a safe space where kids were not bombarded by constant manipulative advertisements.

However, and I don’t know if this was due to laws like the educational TV movement or if it was just a natural response, there was another countermovement in the form of kids TV shows that didn’t care about marketing toys. This is where shows like Ren and Stimpy came in and also why they were so influential - things weren’t simply as cut and dry as EVERYTHING being 100% a commercial and nothing else, but it was still pretty uncommon and revolutionary at the time to have a show with so little merchandise surrounding it. Especially given how the show pushed boundaries in other ways. Grossout cartoons weren’t a thing back in those days, and heck I don’t even know if censors let the old Tom and Jerry cartoons air reruns due to their violent nature. Ren and Stimpy had both, and completely abolished previous standards of cartoons. Not to mention, the fluid art style was radically different from the rigid styles of the past.

Unfortunately for me, personally, I don’t like grossout shows, and I’m not a huge fan of mean-spirited shows. Now granted, if both parties are pieces of shit, or only the piece of shit party is getting their comeuppance, then I don’t quite mind. But I wasn’t very fond of episodes where Squidward or Tom were unfairly punished by the normally “innocent” party, who would normally win since they were the “good” guys. There’s a reason I dropped SpongeBob in season 8 and wasn’t the biggest fan in the few seasons before (and I’ve heard it’s gotten better since then, but the Squidward diaper fetish ep was enough to make me forsake the show forever, sorry. Still consider myself a fan of the old seasons though, and not even just 1 - 3 bc I grew up liking seasons 4 and 5 too.) And my opinion on exaggerated art styles depends very much on how well its done and how appealing it is to look at.

I don’t find Ren and Stimpy very appealing to look at, but it’s not bad on a technical level. The off-model stills make a fluidity of motion, a proper illustration of exaggeration in animation unlike something like SU. It’s basically the opposite of modern-seasons SU - they’re both off-model, but Ren and Stimpy is ugly to look at while doing it right and SU is tolerable while doing it 100% wrong. If that makes any sense.

But I’m not a huge fan of the exaggerated, off-model art styles in TV shows. I wasn’t a fan of Adventure Time’s art style and I’m still not. I didn’t like early season 1 SU (although to be fair, SU critics give it WAY more credit than it deserves, because it was off model a LOT and not always in a properly exaggerating way). I just don’t like these “weird” art styles. SpongeBob starred anthropomorphic sea creatures (well, and a kitchen sponge) so it was easy to come to terms with how they looked. They were reasonably designed for the world they lived in, and were appealing enough to look at. Adventure Time’s style is relatively inoffensive but there are other art styles that honestly kinda hurt my eyes. Like I don’t care if you have a reason for it, idc if it’s okay on a technical level, it’s fuckin Ugly. That’s another reason I dropped SpongeBob in season 8 btw - all the new characters’ designs hurt my eyes, and I wasn’t even a fan of the revamps of old characters.

In addition to that, again, I said I don’t like grossout shows. Guess what started popping up absolutely everywhere once Ren and Stimpy showed up? Not even SpongeBob was safe from it. (TO BE FAIR, yes there was grossout in the original few seasons, but I feel like I just...wasn’t phased by most of it, or something? It’s like. Yeah that’s a picture of a butterfly’s face. Yeah that’s a hyperrealistic drawing of Squidward. Nothing made me cringe due to my high levels of empathy because - other than the butterfly, which was quickly patrick and spongebob being silly - it was never grossout towards the characters. I don’t know, does that make any sense? It’s like. Not grossout because grossout is supposed to hurt the characters, and bad grossout often hurts the audience more than the characters but also I just wasn’t grossed out by it so it wasn’t grossout. If someone WAS grossed out by it then I guess it was bad grossout. I’m not a hypocrite it just. didn’t faze me as a kid.)

And, apologies if I sound like a capitalist right now, but am I the only one who thinks its actually a good thing when TV shows sell toys? Like, obviously it shouldn’t come in the way of a good story. But that’s the thing - it doesn’t inherently come in the way of it. You market a toy around a story and a good story makes the toy all the more profitable. Like, look at Digimon. 100% a toy commercial (not good at marketing the toy it was trying to sell, but I digress - that’s another problem entirely) but it’s still beloved by people for its good story and good characters. There’s NOTHING wrong with that, and in fact I wish it was a more common business model nowadays because that’s the only way I can hope to get 1. a serialized story and 2. enough of a budget for decent animation if I ever apply to a studio with my show ideas.

Ren and Stimpy normalized the idea of both non-serialized stories and non-toy-based cartoons. Both of which are things contrary to my interests as a consumer, a producer, and as someone who looks at business from a logical perspective. Non-serialized stories don’t matter, I mean look at SpongeBob, it’s just a personal thing there. But like...not making shows for toy franchises is kinda?? a bad business strategy?? Why do you think CN plays TTG so much? It’s because TTG has all the merch and sells all the merch and SU merch and other shows’ merch is superbly hard to come by. Adventure Time was incredibly popular and well-pushed by the network when it first came out (one of the few things in this I’m saying with absolute certainty, because I was there) and there was quite a bit of merch for it right off the bat. And as far as I know, it was pretty successful for the first few years. But now as the show is ending, it’s fallen into obscurity. AT was CN’s old TTG, just without the quite as ridiculous airing schedule (it was more akin to Nickelodeon and SpongeBob than TTG, if not slightly less than SpongeBob - it was on quite a lot, though).

I’m not saying there isn’t a place for shows like Ren and Stimpy in the world, but like, I can’t BELIEVE how much of the supposedly good things it did aren’t good in my eyes at all. It’s a personal opinion, but still. I can’t really think of a single thing Ren and Stimpy did that I liked. The only good thing I can think of is loosening up censors enough for stuff like SU and other lgbt+ programs to fly by, but even then, all it did was loosen the censors in general - and loosening those censors has made a lot of problems alongside the good.

#i feel like im missing smth but i gotta get off my computer lmfao its l a t e #stormy speaks

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