Just a Shirt (Read on ao3)
wc: 1.9k | Rated: T | cw: Mild descriptions of Steve's s4 injuries (mostly the scar on his neck), Hospital mention, Brief mention of nightmares
Tags: Eddie Munson Loves Steve Harrington, Steve Harrington Needs a Hug, Post s4 Fix-it (Everyone Lives), Hellfire, Fluff and Angst (Happy Ending), Love Confessions, Injury, Cuddling
Eddie makes Steve a customised Hellfire shirt, just for him. Based off this ficlet/headcanon.
But the BIGGEST thank you goes to @tangerinesteve (formally babydollbaron) for their incredible tags below. They gave me the biggest and softest brainworms. I hope I did your wonderful ideas justice!
“Here-p,” Eddie mumbles, pushing a too-neatly folded shirt into Steve’s hands.
“Uh, thanks,” his boyfriend hums, quirking a brow in confusion.
Eddie shrugs the whole thing off for good measure because it’s just a shirt – that’s all it is.
... But not really.
Like, at all.
He looks away, avoiding Steve’s gaze. While their relationship isn’t too new for gifts, it might be too fresh for a t-shirt that screams, ‘You are part of me and I can see that you are in pain and I think I can fix it. Nay, I need to make you comfortable’.
Yeah… it’s perhaps a little too premature for something that says all that.
So Eddie looks at the floor, his beige sock blending into the similarly-coloured carpet that lines Steve’s bedroom. His foot really only looks like an actual foot and not a patch of carpet thanks to the hole in his sock that is currently exposing his pinky toe.
It’s just a shirt, he desperately reminds himself as he catches Steve unfurling it out of the corner of his eye.
It’s just a shirt.
A customised Hellfire shirt he made especially for Steve.
One that is two sizes too big, made of the softest cotton and led to an emptying of his wallet to obtain. A Hellfire shirt that has short sleeves and a loose, scooped neck Eddie fashioned himself after borrowing a sewing book from the library. A neckline he sewed on Mrs Pemberton’s machine after crossing the trailer park and answering a slew of questions from an all too inquisitive Max Mayfield.
It’s a Hellfire shirt in its logo only – despite what his friends might think. Or the fuss all his pea-brained lost little sheepie buddies kicked up along the way.
They have been a total nightmare these past few weeks, scheming and plotting and sabotaging like a little hoard of gremlins. But Eddie supposes he can really only blame himself.
He should have never said anything, never asked Gareth for the original master copy of the Hellfire logo he knows his best friend keeps filed away in secret on the rare occasions they let in new members. Or to get new t-shirts printed in instances of spilled beverage-based stain emergencies. But then Gareth of course squealed to Jeff, who teased Eddie mercilessly before blabbing to Freak, who, well… Freaked about the possibility of a jock joining Hellfire.
The shock. The horror! Oh, the humanity!
And then came what was nothing short of a campaign via Dustin, Mike and Will, all collectively working to not only prevent Eddie from something he wasn’t even going to do in the first place but to also create a drama so seismic that rumours got around the whole of Hawkins that one Eddie Munson would no longer be running his little ‘demonic’ social club.
Or at least that’s what Wayne said Ernie at the plant had told him that his son had said.
The only thing is, Eddie feels more than a little sorry for Lucas Sinclair, a kid now sulking around, utterly crestfallen that his favourite Laundry Basket Friend isn’t also secretly a full-blown nerd.
It’s just that Eddie wanted to give Steve a nice, soft, comfy shirt he had hoped he would look at just like he is right now.
Besides, Steve had admitted that he liked the Hellfire logo months back when they first started dating. Told Eddie it was, “So creative, man”, after expressing some mild disappointment that he hadn’t shown up for their first date wearing it.
He smiles at the memory, Steve’s eyes lighting up as soon as he hopped into the Beemer, far too eager to head off to Benny’s Diner that he hadn’t even bothered to let Steve chivalrously walk up to the front stoop of the new and improved Casa de Munson.
“Eddie…” Steve says, his voice just above a whisper and sounding just as soft as the too-important shirt in his grip.
“Don’t worry,” he snorts, “I’m not making you join or anything it’s just… You said you haven’t been sleeping well…”
He gestures with his hand, searching for the right words. Better words that won’t sound so monumental and weighted as Steve’s eyes trail right along the shirt’s scooped neckline.
The hem is probably a little flimsy, but hopefully, Steve won’t fucking claw at it like the old Tigers gym shirt he almost tore in two a few weeks back after bolting upright in a sweat after a nightmare. That is what did it – really set Eddie on his mission. Seeing Steve’s sniffles turn to tears and how he tried to hide them away, shrugging Eddie off before rushing to the ensuite bathroom.
He had come back a few minutes later, eyes red as he hugged his arms across himself, appearing small and frightened but acting cold as ice.
“Yeah…” Steve nods before mouthing what appears to be the word, “soft”, as he balls the fabric between his fingers.
“Hell, I know you haven’t been sleeping,” Eddie continues to ramble, “Just… tossing and turning. Also your… Y’know…”
He gestures to his own neck, referring to the still-reddened scar around Steve’s. One that Eddie knows leaves his throat scratchy and hoarse at the slightest provocation. A mark that nosey townspeople gawk at when Steve is at work, leaving him all embarrassed and well, not like Steve ‘The Hair’ Harrington at all.
And Steve hadn’t even told Eddie about that part. Nope. He found out from Robin, who swung by the mechanic one afternoon, inconsolable about her best friend spending their shift at Family Video hidden away in Keith Anderson’s stinky loser palace of an office.
“Mhmm,” Steve nods, pursing his lips.
Eddie knows he isn’t mad – it’s just something his boyfriend doesn’t talk about. That he doesn’t like talking about.
He needn’t ramble anymore, really – fill the silence between them or attempt to explain himself because, in a flash, Steve slips off his tight-fitting navy polo and replaces it with his new Hellfire shirt.
And Eddie can’t help but beam at a job well done.
It hangs nicely. Loose enough to sleep in, but not billowing so much to swallow that physique entirely. The neckline sits just where he had hoped too, much lower than the regular Hellfire shirts, scooped below Steve’s collar bones so that even if it stretches in his sleep, it couldn’t possibly pull and tug at his scar.
It’s perfect.
Exactly what he wanted to give Steve, who looks down at the devilish, very metal logo – a sight that is sure to scare off his snooty parents for good if they ever see it.
Before he knows it, Steve lunges for him and Eddie feels his cheeks squish against his boyfriend’s hands as he is kissed.
And kissed.
And kissed some more.
Kisses that last for long enough and grow softer with every peck that Eddie soon feels his legs buckling and he forgets altogether what they are even doing up here, in Steve’s bedroom, in the middle of the day on a warm summer afternoon.
It’s just the he –
“ – I love you,” Steve smiles when he comes up for air and –
His eyes blow wide in an instant.
And Eddie is sure his own do too – maybe even pop right out of his goddamn skull with an audible gasp in there somewhere as well as they both fully realise what has just been said.
Steve loves him?
Just the same as he loves Steve. So much that he is blurting it out now, in the middle of his bedroom on a warm, mid-summer afternoon – perhaps months too early when they are probably, most likely still in the honeymoon phase.
All because of one perfect t-shirt.
Steve’s brow pinches together and his jaw goes slack as he looks away.
“I…” he trails off, drumming his fingers on Eddie’s shoulders.
“Stevie...” he tuts, smiling back at him.
He steps closer still, closing any remaining space between them as he loops his arms around his partner’s middle and squeezes him tight.
Eddie backs them a step back, then another. Then another until he is at a safe enough distance to rock Steve back and collapse onto the bed.
They fall with a conjoined, “Hmphf” – one that knocks the wind out of Eddie’s already breathless lungs and has Steve momentarily distracted away from whatever inner turmoil he had going on a moment ago. As he lands on top of his boyfriend, Eddie gets a feel of the shirt, now warmed by Steve’s permanently hot body temperature. A feeling that makes it seem even softer.
Like it is already worn in and loved.
He wants to ball a handful of it up in his fist and never let go.
But Eddie forces himself to sit upright, settling down in a straddled position to hover over Steve’s clothed form. He smiles down at the sight beneath him, his giddiness short-lived and quickly fading as a big, brown and now glistening set of panicked eyes return.
“Stevie,” he whispers, running his hand up Steve’s torso.
He ghosts his fingers with a featherlight touch over the printed logo, an illustration he had first scribbled on the back of his math book in his junior year.
Eddie leans forward and takes Steve’s hands, clasping them tight and one by one, he brings them to rest above his head where his super-soft signature swoop is sticking every which way, mussed by the bedspread.
He can’t help but chuckle a little at the sight – momentarily giving into the greedy feeling he gets when he thinks about how this Steve is the one he gets all to himself.
But Steve frowns, those expressive brows looking positively pained now as if only one thing could possibly soften them.
“I love you too,” Eddie says, freeing a hand to delicately pluck at Steve’s loosened neckline, “Obviously.”
“You do?” Steve asks.
Eddie nods as a visible relief washes through Steve’s eyes, leaving his brows to soften up so much he wonders if his boyfriend might now cry.
And before he can say or do anything more, Steve bolts upright, once again leaving Eddie feeling winded and more than a lot flushed this time as he wraps his arms around him and buries his face in his neck, snuffling close like the world’s cuddliest puppy.
They stay like this for a long while, simply breathing in sync as they hold each other. And soon Steve begins to sink, his body going lax as his head slips down onto Eddie’s shoulder.
“I really wanna sleep,” he hums as tears seep through Eddie’s own plain black t-shirt.
“You wanna try now?” Eddie offers, pulling back enough to give an encouraging little smile.
Steve nods, refusing to let him go as they lower down together as one, his eyes fluttering shut when his head meets the bedspread.
“Wanna get all cozy under the covers?” Eddie continues, nudging at the bedding.
He really doesn’t want to move too much more – not when Steve looks like this.
Relaxed.
Loved.
Comfortable and wrapped up in a softness Eddie would like to keep him cocooned in forever.
But as he always does, Steve moves for them and rolls to the side. He snuggles in close, burrowing his head between the crook of Eddie’s neck and the mattress all protected and safe. Eddie palms around for the blanket and haphazardly wraps what sliver of it is free around them, shielding his partner a little more for good measure.
It’s good like this.
Calm. Warm.
Soft.
73 notes
·
View notes
I have an alternate pale theory…
Consider this like a ‘Pale-AU’ (i.e. I know it is probably not supported by canon, and certainly not supported by some other works like Joshua Jenkins designs, for example… also I haven’t finished reading PJÕL, so maybe my ideas will change after that) but I started thinking about it as a “what-if” situation: If there were to be a direct sequel to Disco Elysium :insert prayer hands:, how could we reconcile the multitude of different Harrys the player could create? What about the fates of other characters? Some change due to our influence, some die. How could a sequel storyline somehow accept all those possible variances? Introducing my almost-certainly not-correct pale theory!TM using a little bit of in-game info, some real-life stuff, and a sprinkle of imagination!
Caution: Many spoilers ahead.
So what is Pale -- just the past?
After you talk to the Phasmid you’re given the impression that humans/people created the pale accidentally (with thinking and memory and ideas and invention?); and after talking to Joyce you learn that some think the pale is “rarified past.” It’s all pretty nebulous, but I think that the pale being a product (or a by-product) of the human mind/memory is close to what could be accepted as the canon origin of the pale:
INSULINDIAN PHASMID - The pale, too, came with you. No one remembers it before you. The cnidarians do not, the radially symmetricals do not. There is an almost unanimous agreement between the birds and the plants that you are going to destroy us all.
YOU - Wait, the pale is human made?
INSULINDIAN PHASMID - It is a nervous shadow cast into the world by you, eating away at reality. A great, unnatural territory. Its advent coincides with the arrival of the human mind.
YOU - I don't have that kind of power.
INSULINDIAN PHASMID - You are a violent and irrepressible miracle. The vacuum of cosmos and the stars burning in it are afraid of you. Given enough time you would wipe us all out and replace us with nothing -- just by accident.
YOU - ...how?
INSULINDIAN PHASMID - We suspect it will be something like the oxygen holocaust that wiped out anaerobic life 2.6 billion years ago -- when organisms first started breathing. Only much worse.
CONCEPTUALIZATION - Instead of air, you exhale thoughts. There are no trees that eat thoughts.
JOYCE MESSIER – "Some say the damage stems from extreme sensory deprivation. Others argue that pale somehow *consists* of past information, that's degrading. That it's rarefied past, not rarefied matter."
JOYCE MESSIER – "They call it *the blend-over of the self*. The pale does not only suspend the laws of physics, but also the laws of psychology, maybe History, even... The human mind becomes over-radiated by past."
YOU – "Who says and who argues?"
JOYCE MESSIER – "The logical positivists say -- the dialectical materialists argue."
An effect of the Pale is “entroponetical crosstalk" which you can experience when you use the doorbell intercom outside the whirling and hear the woman speaking from Tricentennial Electrics a long time ago, and additionally the old pale driver also talks to you about how she’s experienced the past in the pale, like the assassination of Dolores Dei. Both are snippets of human past:
KIM KITSURAGI - "It was a recording trapped in the circuitry. From some ancient tenant. This sometimes happens. Shall we conclude here? We have other mysteries to solve."
YOU - "I do have one mystery that still needs solving... the radio ghost in the Doomed Commercial Area's electronic doorbell."
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "The creepy woman!" She slaps her forehead. "We were wondering about that when we worked there... but I had completely forgotten about it ever since!"
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "It must be entroponetic crosstalk. The one you get in radios and long-distance calls... Now it makes sense, with the pale right on the doorstep."
KIM KITSURAGI - "Incredible..." the lieutenant murmurs. "This would also explain why we get it on the police radio all the time."
YOU - "Entroponetic crosstalk?"
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "It's quite common actually. When the signal gets routed through pale, all kinds of irregularities take place. You may hear snippets of someone else's conversation, or the voice of your former lover, or an echo of an event that took place 100 years ago."
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "Pale is a shroud of memories and it doesn't really distinguish to whom those memories belong to. You could hear anything."
PALEDRIVER - "You don't need to turn back time. The pale is already churning with it. As the tide of pale rises, so does the past. Someday both will cover the whole world. That's it. That's the story."
PALEDRIVER - "They say there is a point -- one that *I* have not crossed -- in the pale superdeep. If you stray too far off course on the U41-A, or in Lomonossov's Land... where every step you take is one step further from home, no matter the direction."
PALEDRIVER - "It's a point you cannot come back from. Your mind becomes so radiant with the past -- there is a flip." She flicks the ash from her cigarette. "Instead of writing, it erases memory. Nearing some kind of..." She shakes her head. "Indescribable *finale*."
PALEDRIVER - "Like Gabriel Buenguerro in 'Segure-me, Paraíso'..." She nods and smiles, unkindly. "You're the opposite of me then. I remember everything -- even the things I never knew."
YOU - "Things you never knew?"
PALEDRIVER - "The smell of liquor on Gabriel's lips after the shoot. In the motor park. The roses on the day of Franconegro's coronation. On the grand stairs of Raehl. The smoke from the fowling piece, when Dolores Dei was shot..."
PALEDRIVER - "The look on her face -- like an orgasm. The wound in her chest. My hand in my father's hand..." She closes her eyes, her eyelids trembling. "Except I never had a father. And I never shot Her Innocence Dolores Dei."
..
PALEDRIVER - "Thought insertion? *Dithering*? The Graad-Katla Magistral?" She savours the lungful. "It's more than dangerous -- it's *sad*. But... at first I had to make a living. Now..."
So you’d think Joyce’s theory checks out, it’s all history/memory---BUT! I did the moralist political quest my first play thru, and when you are trying to contact the airship you also get radio crosstalk from the pale.
KIM KITSURAGI - "It's cold now..."
SHIVERS - A slight frisson at the point where your neck meets your spine. Something about the lieutenant's words, directed at you, but not *you*...
YOU - "It's really coming down, now that you mention it."
KIM KITSURAGI - "Mention what?"
YOU - "It's cold, like you just said."
KIM KITSURAGI - "I didn't say anything, detective."
KIM KITSURAGI - "...someone has been maintaining it. The wiring has been repaired..."
HORSEBACK ANTENNA - An uncomfortable silence falls over the connection.
KIM KITSURAGI - "... It's been a long winter... Long and cold..."
YOU - "Are you going to tell me you didn't say *that*, either?"
KIM KITSURAGI - "I promise you, I didn't, even though it certainly *sounds* like me..." The lieutenant seems to wince at the sound of his own voice.
YOU - "It must be entroponetic crosstalk. It's the only explanation."
NOID - "So your partner's haunting himself. Trying to warn him off his current path, most like."
KIM KITSURAGI - "It's eerie, for certain, but also harmless. I just wish I could remember what I was talking about..."
ESPRIT DE CORPS - Something here is eating at the lieutenant, as much as he would like to move past it.
You can even hear it if Kim is not with you:
KIM KITSURAGI - "It's cold now..."
SHIVERS - A slight frisson at the point where your neck meets your spine. You can *feel* the lieutenant's presence, even though he's nowhere to be found...
YOU - "Kim? How did you get on my connection?"
NOID - "Whoa, the cop's *own partner* is a radio-spooker. That's some *other core* business right there..."
HORSEBACK ANTENNA - ...
KIM KITSURAGI - "...someone has been maintaining it. The wiring has been repaired..."
YOU - "Kim! Answer me."
NOID - "No use, man. Don't think he can hear you."
YOU - "I've encountered this before. It's entroponetic crosstalk. This is a piece of the past mixing in with our signal."
NOID - "What..."
KIM KITSURAGI - "It's been a long winter... Long and cold."
NOID - "What have you gotten us into, lawman?"
HALF LIGHT - Just *run*. Unplug that headset and get as far away as you can.
YOU - "Kim? How did you get on my connection?"
…
YOU - "What is he talking about?"’
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "I believe you mean, what *was* he talking about."
YOU - "Wait, what are *you* talking about?"
KIM KITSURAGI - "It's been a long winter... Long and cold."
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "It sounds very much like entroponetic crosstalk. It happens sometimes when sending transmissions across long stretches of pale..."
Except IT'S NOT FROM THE PAST. It is Kim talking from the future, from the fort on the island. Which hasn’t happened yet.
And it can possibly NOT HAPPEN.
You hear Kim say this stuff even if he gets shot and doesn’t come with you to the island.
During gameplay they kind of just go “huh, how strange and spooky...” and don’t really delve into it.
But that completely changes the pale right? It’s not just past, it’s also future, and not just the ONLY future, POSSIBLE future.
So, my theory is that the pale is multiverse colliding: the near pale is the places where these universes begin to overlap, and deep pale is where universes overlap to such a degree they are cancelling themselves out into nothing.
Fungal communication – mycorrhizal network
When Joyce talks to you, she talks about a fungus growing at the edge of the porch collapse. I think this fungus could be acting like a mycorrhizal network, which in our world are an underground networks connecting fungi and plants allowing them to communicate or share information. I think the fungi/spores in Elysium pop up at origin points and thrive along the porch collapse and are allowing the universes to “talk” to each other.
SOONA, THE PROGRAMMER - "I understand..." She closes her eyes. "A theory of the pale where instead of an *outer ocean* it metastasises -- like a cancer or a mould -- erupting in points *inside* the world."
JOYCE MESSIER - "An uproar of matter, darling, *rising* into the pale. Rolling. Evaporating even, a great vision. The area of transition between the world and the pale is called *porch collapse*."
JOYCE MESSIER - "Imagine a grey coronal mist, cold vapour, marked by spores of an opportunistic microorganism -- a mould that's adapted to grow at the edge of the unrest. It's..."
JOYCE MESSIER - She closes her eyes and breathes out heavily: "... the most *disco* thing you will ever see.
INLAND EMPIRE - The white noise turns into a wall of mist and grey mould, bubbling, sweeping over the city... it tears up buildings and raises sidewalks into the sky. It's Revachol -- at the end of the world.
INLAND EMPIRE - ...and it hasn't even really started yet.
Destructive interference – “le gris”
When Lena tells you about the cryptid the Col Do Ma Ma Da Qua, you learn that they are nearly extinct because the scientists played back their own calls and since they are creatures made of sound, the recordings cancelled out the birds. They died because the signals matched and cancelled each other out.
LENA, THE CRYPTOZOOLOGIST'S WIFE - "It's the *Col Do Ma Ma Daqua*," the woman corrects her glasses. "Its name means 'thin whisper of sound'. And that's *precisely* what it is -- self-replicating sound waves, invisible and intangible! The Col Do Ma Ma is very afraid of us, which makes it incredibly difficult to track..."
YOU - "Why is the Ma Ma Daqua so afraid of us?"
LENA, THE CRYPTOZOOLOGIST'S WIFE - "That is a sad story." She frowns. "A group of university students assisting with the field work, in their enthusiasm for the project and, no doubt, because they were preoccupied with impressing their professors, nearly drove it to *extinction*."
YOU - "Extinction?"
LENA, THE CRYPTOZOOLOGIST'S WIFE - She nods gravely. "They tried to communicate with it, and had no other means but sound. So they started sending out sound waves at frequencies they thought might match the Ma Ma Daqua's. And what happens when a sound wave meets another sound wave of the same frequency, dear?"
YOU - "They cancel each other out."
So... admittedly this doesn’t directly connect to the pale, but it’s illustrating the concept of signals cancelling each other out and, I'm going to say, indicates that this concept is possible in Elysium. The pale is destruction, the overlap between universes causes matter, physics, and even numbers to dissolve. The more complete the overlap, the more complete the destruction.
In conclusion...
According to my theory, the pale is the areas of the world that are affected by these fungal organisms that allow very similar, but different universes to communicate with each other, and since their 'signals' are so alike, they are being cancelled out.
So why did I force myself to jump thru these mental hoops? I think having a multiverse like this would make a sequel more possible since there are so many ways the game can be played. Any possible playthrough would be its own universe. Having a multiverse like this acknowledges and validates any play thru as 'canon,' no player will feel that they somehow played the game “wrong.” Whatever Harry appearing in the sequel is one of the possible Harrys even if he wasn’t “your” Harry. If a character died, they died only in some of the universes, not all. Whatever world the sequel would take place in is just one of the many possibilities.
Anyway, I thought WAYYYY too much about this and now you can too. Sorry!
42 notes
·
View notes
Funny you mention that, I'm actually planning to go a step further and have proper relationships sections! So every character relationship in the infobox (and then some) can be covered with the depth they deserve.
Of course, that kind of thing can go off the rails fast and become a breeding ground for speculation, so they'll focus solely on the progression of the relationship from the perspective of the character whose article it is, and require a citation for every claim made. (I'd personally like to move towards citing every claim we make period, but it'd probably be best to start with baby steps.)
So I've had that cooking for a while (Jo is coincidentally the character I decided to start with, since he has very few relationships but they're all complex enough for a stress test). I probably shouldn't approach it with the intent to "correct misunderstandings," but I would like to think fans might have an easier time creating in-character fanworks with all of that information in one place. At the very least, you wouldn't necessarily have to go back through all the RGGO stories as a refresher lol.
I've never wanted to address Mine's orientation per se--not that that's quite what you were talking about I think, this is purely as an aside--because a lot of it's considered semantics and I just can't cite it directly in the way I can cite his feelings for Daigo. But on a personal level, I'm honestly surprised at the number of dudebros I've seen who'd be willing to accept he's bi, but being gay is a bridge too far on account of him dating women.
But the point of what he was talking about in the finale is that those relationships weren't at all fulfilling for him, right? Through a purely speculative lens, Jo claiming to be unable to remember Ikumi's name reminds me of that somehow. Like, if that's actually true, you remember every single minute detail of New Year's down to the locker numbers, where Ikumi gave birth, what Arakawa's face looked like, but you can't remember the name of the mother of your child? Alright, man. That's so normal. There's no trauma and/or comphet-adjacence there.
Speaking of--yeah, Masato's card unfortunately comes with no story, so it's not just bad luck. Character stories were discontinued with Kawara and Bessho, I think over a year ago now. On one hand I'm kind of thankful because they've been making it increasingly difficult to actually pull newly-released cards, but on the other hand, it's a huge part of what made cards worth trying for in the first place.
I do get it in terms of sheer volume though; it's mainly Yokoyama and Takeuchi themselves writing everything, and for scale, if I take solely my own translations of all of Mine's events and stories, it'd equal roughly 27.5k words. I can understand putting out that novella-length volume of content--ridiculously HQ content at that--every month isn't feasible when you're also writing for console entries on top of that.
You definitely shouldn't be putting yourself down in comparison though haha, I adore your work precisely because you've got such an excellent grasp on the characters and I always look forward to anything you put out!
Very, very true about Mine and his dad! I think if I were to summarize my findings from the papers (with regard to Mine specifically), Mine has this line in the finale about his hatred of people like Kiryu who "live solely by the principles of giri-ninjo, moral obligation and human feeling." Obviously not translated that way in-game because it's pretty lofty, but there is significance to it as I see it.
Focusing on the ninjo aspect, the papers define the term as "knowing how to [depend and presume upon another’s benevolence] properly and how to respond to the call [to depend and presume] in others." The "dependency need" component is thought develop as a baby first bonds with its parent.
Although it's commonly associated with child and parent, it applies to many forms of dependence, "such as between lovers, friends, husband and wife, teacher and student, employer and employee." It should also be noted it's not strictly hierarchical--superiors depend on their subordinates just as much.
So ninjo is a concept with a history of being considered "specifically as Japanese" in a way Westerners wouldn't understand. (It isn't actually, of course--everyone experiences this form of dependence--however, if I recall correctly, Japanese people were found to be significantly more likely to recognize and admit to it than Westerners.)
By opposing ninjo, a Japanese ideal of dependence, Mine implicitly aligns himself with "the Western ideal of personal independence," which is described as an ideal in which "one might just as well depend upon oneself or become independent, since there is nobody else to depend upon."
This is absolutely rooted in his being an orphan. His "dependency need" was at one point fulfilled by his dad's presence in his life, and once he lost him, he spent the rest of his life fluctuating between searching for someone else who would fulfill it and trying to be someone who doesn't experience "dependency need."
In contrast to Japanese society, where "parental dependency is fostered and its behavior pattern institutionalized into the social structure," the idealized version of Western society values an individual's success over their background. One example is the American myth of the "self-made man," which Mine describes himself as in the original Y3. As an orphan, his rejection of Japanese society in favor of Western society would make sense in that regard as well.
Growing up with no one to depend on and often facing loss and betrayal when he tried to, Mine avoids relying on or trusting others for most of his life. He is independent not because it comes naturally to him, but because of how dependence has hurt him in the past--i.e., "one might just as well depend upon oneself or become independent, since there is nobody else to depend upon."
However, Mine does accept and directly acknowledge the concept at the heart of ninjo when he admits in the finale, "People yearn to trust others. And to be trusted in return." That also coincides with him choosing to end things according to his code of honor as a yakuza, and literally taking the game's main representative of Western culture down with him. It's so perfect within this framework that I have no idea if Yokoyama even knew what he was doing, but He Sure Did It.
But it absolutely works with what you said, and I think it's fairly self-evident because you were able to pick up on it even if you didn't have the exact terminology in mind; Mine once his dependency need fulfilled where Jo never did, and it's made all the difference. I'm a very, very heavily Westernized South Asian still living in South Asia, and I imagine there's less overlap between SAsian culture and EAsian culture, but I've always thought "family values" such as those discussed are more or less ubiquitous in Asian cultures. For what it's worth, I relate strongly to Mine here.
(Also, in case anyone one day accuses me of copying Mine's future personality section from Tumblr, a fair amount of this is from my draft of that. I'm trying my best to make it sound less insane because it's going on a wiki, but y'know.)
Rewinding a little bit, I wanted to point out that Mine being bullied for being an orphan in that specific scene is more or less an invention of Y3R's localization. Kind of an understandable one, because he certainly did face it and Y3R's script was written without ever consulting a Japanese translation, but an invention nonetheless; in that scene, he was being bullied for being poor, not being an orphan.
But I don't think that affects the validity of your point at all, since--and it might not be totally intentional, since Mine wasn't always supposed to be the main antagonist--all the time you spend working with the Morning Glory kids through their problems effectively shows what he may have gone through. Except that he, also like Jo I suppose, had no adults in his life to help him navigate those same problems.
It's hear-twrenching listening to Masato talk about his disability even as an adult, the role internalized ableism played in creating that rift can't be overstated. Brings to mind the image of Arakawa at a complete loss how to respond when Masato was hitting his legs; perhaps if he'd been better-equipped to get through to him as a parent in the way Ichi was able to at the end, things might have turned out different. I think Arakawa displays a lot more emotional maturity and awareness than most characters, but he's not always able or willing to communicate that.
Once again, I absolutely love how your comparison post turned out! I wouldn't have minded being @'d (not that I mind not being @'d) at all haha, I'm not very active so I love getting notifications. Just a huge fan of your presentation, super clean and easy to follow in my opinion. There are a few points I'd love to discuss further, but I know my asks tend to be way too long for what they are haha, so I'll wait. But yeah, just as the Venn diagram of Mine and Jo overlaps, so does the Venn diagram of Mine and Jo fans. Happy to have you in the middle!
I'm glad you got as much out of the books as I did! That's exactly why I think they works super well for them, and I was hoping you'd catch the added Art Appreciator similarity. Also worth noting the art history books appear to be in Polish? I guess you wouldn't need to understand the language if you were more about admiring the art itself (my own art history books are in English and I ignore the text in every single one), but it's kind of funny to have all these thick Tomes you probably can't read.
Also very true. I feel like Hijikata and DS Ryuji aren't quite even since Saigo does exist haha, though he doesn't have as much screen time as Hijikata. There are a few opportunities Mine seems to lose out to Ryuji or others (Ryuji being chosen over him as an RGGO protagonist when Mine was in the running and frankly fit the criteria better, for example), but it is what it is.
Yokoyama did mention the love for the first three games' rivals makes casting for spinoffs really easy though, so I do have hope for more actual Mine! I'd like to see a Dead Souls 2 (he has a pretty good excuse to be cyborg-ified, given the probable state of his body after the fall lmao), or maybe even an Ishin 2, since the events that led to Hijikata and the others' deaths in real life were avoided in Ishin.
I know Yokoyama's talked about a "Y0.5" with Ryuji and Mine, a French Revolution spinoff (???), a Romance of the Three Kingdoms spinoff, and a Sengoku-era Hattori Hanzo spinoff featuring 8 protagonists and the same "all-star" approach to casting as Ishin. Someone else pitched a spinoff for when the yakuza first came into existence, too. And, at one point, before Ichi existed, they were considering continuing the series with Gaiden-type games featuring various characters (though I think going forward, further Gaidens would depend on the success of Gaiden.) So there are lots of possibilities! I really do hope he gets to be a protagonist or playable character one day, since he fits the mold perfectly IMO.
I'm happy you appreciate my offering haha! I hope you'll let us know what you think of Princess Toyotomi and Hero SP whenever you get to them. That is unfortunately how I found out about Toru :') I adore the leads and their relationship myself, so I never would've thought Pure would go there! But I suppose it does check out for Tsutsumi's career.
Good Morning Show is honestly driving me insane because I'm positive I watched it but can't find it at the same address anymore??? I had to watch it with clearly machine translated subs, but it was as chaotic as it looks. Godspeed!
Oh, I also wanted to weigh in on the "Masato's care" line since that was originally supposed to be part of the response (and since the topic of localization is super interesting to me, as someone who not only translates works but translates RGGS' works and has needed to become intimately familiar with the official localization style).
It's an odd choice, because on top of what Anon said, everything from the context to the grammatical construction of the original Japanese sentence should clearly convey that what he's apologizing for is not taking sole responsibility for Masato's care and having Ichiban attend to him on top of his regular duties. He's not apologizing for Masato's care itself being a burden.
Honestly kind of baffling because not two scenes earlier, they convey the exact same sentiment perfectly--"Sorry to bother you with something so personal." [JP] / "I'm sorry to keep asking you to help me with something so personal." [EN]. It's like, to me, talented localization teams should absolutely be celebrated, but they should also be completely "invisible" in the moment. They're not invisible in that moment because it's their biases coming through rather the character or even the writer's biases.
I don't necessarily mean bias in terms of internalizing ableist ideas (it's hard to say it plays no part, given it's a disabled character being discussed, but what I mean is there's not at all enough to go on to conclude it was a malicious or even a conscious decision). I also mean in the sense of getting "locked into" a certain way of thinking about disabled characters and their care, and multiple different teams (base translation, dub editors, and sub editors) going over that line and not thinking twice.
Because like, it's true that in fiction (and unfortunately real life) you do see parents who feel it's a burden, but that doesn't mean Arakawa has to be that way. It kind of undermines RGG Studio's efforts to employ rigorous sensitivity checks starting this "generation" of games (starring Yagami and Ichiban, I mean) when things slip through the cracks like that.
And it's not the only area it happens; there are a number of places where there's this "tunnel vision" surrounding certain ideas that comes to the forefront. One of the things that leads to is instances of "pigeonholing" characters into pre-existing molds while not giving enough consideration to who the characters actually are in this particular work.
For me Jo actually got the brunt of it (or perhaps I was just most sensitive to it), from marketing to localization. Marketing-wise, the very first time we saw him in English-language trailers, it was literally for one second after either the word "BAD" or a synonym flashed on-screen. A far cry from Tsutsumi's one-on-one interview where he explicitly says Jo is doing everything in service of a deeper motive, his English voice actor was not interviewed at all, while most major characters' English voice actors were.
Localization-wise, there's one thing that perfectly encapsulates (if you'll allow me to be dramatic for a moment) "What Went Wrong." It's what they decided to call Jo's fighting style. The fact it went from Shame Style to something as trite as Vile Blade genuinely haunts me to this day. Just the sheer flanderization in taking a name that lays bare the core of his character and motivations, a name that conveys perfectly how he sees himself as inhuman and irredeemable, and then turning it inside-out to suggest he IS inhuman and irredeemable? That's insane to me.
Of course, I'm not really able to gauge whether/how that kind of thing actually affected the reception or general understanding of him as a character since I haven't participated in the fandom at all for years, but I do wonder if it has.
Having pages dedicated to relationships and including how each character perceives their relationships sounds like a fair idea (I've always been a fan about how on Masato's page, Yumeno is regarded as his 'girlfriend' while on her page he's only her 'customer'. It's a small detail all things considered, but it's a great way to emphasize how much impact one party can have on another and can deepen the significance of relationships and interactions)! And having citations at the ready is always a good idea to help clear up misinformation or just to simply provide tidbits people are curious about, though obviously with a franchise as big as RGG (including RGGO content), it's very easy to understand if it would take significant time to have absolutely everything accounted for. It's what makes the time dedicated to this kind of work all the more respectable, really!
When it comes to Mine- or any character honestly- and their orientation, for the sake of sharing information clearly, I think it'd be better just to focus on what's provided opposed to trying to find a concrete label for it, so I can't say I'm all too upset at the lack of a solid 'confirmation' and I am grateful for the material given that lets us work towards one conclusion and another.
It is surprising to me that people are more open to Mine being bisexual though (I usually see people try to ignore the fact bisexuality is an option. It's a weird win I guess..). But as you've pointed out, I personally believe Mine's case was more about a case of comphet behavior, as the line where he alludes to his past relations with women it's from a segment where he's specifically highlighting how he wasn't happy abiding by what should have made him happy. I still don't know how people observed the full scene but decided to block out the very next line where he says he was unsatisfied and just walked away with 'Mine likes women'. ☠️
Onto Jo though, the state of his memory about Masato's birth really is jarring when you point it out. It's one thing to just chalk it up to a sprinkle of misogyny and not finding Ikumi important (though at least RGG was nice enough to give her files a proper name), but really thinking about it, it's incredibly bizarre he doesn't remember at all. Not considering the actual nine months they had to live together for Ikumi to have Masato, I'd assume they'd have to live together a little longer than that then- and still nothing...? But everything else about that night... Definitely something to raise an eyebrow about lmao
That's unfortunate about the RGGO stories though! But like you said, it's totally understandable as to why they had to discontinue them (but also of course, they were a big attraction to me personally to play the game and card hunt), especially when it's only two people already having to juggle other projects. But thank you for the encouragement with my own personal projects: I try not to be too hard on myself since that certainly won't do anything, and it certainly helps to know that I'm on the right track with what I'm doing! I really do love these characters (and I'm also terribly aware they're a bit unpopular all things considered), so I always want to do what I can to do them justice for myself and other fans!
Highlighting Mine's preference towards the West has really been a great experience- it's something I've only noticed on small scales (i.e. his foreign car and of course his English), but bringing it to light like this has really helped validate and further my understanding of him! That being said, Mine most definitely has adopted the American mentality of stressing independence and not relying on others, and it's undoubtedly come as a result of his upbringing. Ergo, analyzing Mine in relation to his connection not just with American philosophy but also giri-ninjo is definitely worthwhile, and from the sounds of it absolutely significant to understanding his character and his motives (it's certainly something I'm already taking notes on for the future)!
Moreover, I've always been a fan of Mine and his ability to acknowledge the inherit need to have companionship, or at the very least his subconscious need for bonds. In that, it's clear Mine's pursuit of independence was a way to protect himself (I might dare to say he lets down his guard fairly easily all things considered, though I won't ignore his caution towards Daigo and Kanda when initially meeting them. Moreover, it's just clear that when he feels betrayed, despite convincing himself he's a lone wolf, he feels that pain significantly- much greater than someone who sincerely believes themselves to be independent should). Just as you've said, Mine's suicide and taking Richardson with him is really a solid and magnificent way to round off his character through the lens of him putting to rest his solitary philosophy. Going further with gameplay interwoven with story telling, the time-consuming Dad Simulator bits of Y3 really do help highlight how much the kids of Morning Glory- and in that case orphans in general- rely on adults like Kiryu to navigate life. And evidently, that experience ties back into Mine and his frustrations with not just people like Kiryu who help others without expecting a reward, but also how the less fortunate are able to receive that help where as Mine wasn't offered that.
On that note, I feel like I remember learning that the 'orphan' bit was an inclusion, but I guess I forgot that detail along the way. Nevertheless, I'm just about to start eating drywall over the translation differences at this point- even if my point isn't moot, I still can't help but feel an anxiety that I'm going to greatly misinterpret something (and I can certainly get back to this point later when it comes to the likes of Jo's in the west). At the very least, it's a better incentive to brush up on my Japanese. I'll take what I can though: I'm glad that what I've said it still valid in some parts!
The case of Masato's something that's always going to intrigue my mind (I owe myself a chance to properly sit down and analyze him). There's so many aspects at play that could have affected how he turned out as an adult, and family is undoubtedly a major factor contributing to that outcome. To expand on that, it's inarguable that Arakawa was doing the most he could for Masato as not only a young, single father who had a complicated relationship with his own parents, but also having to operate as a ruthless yakuza to the rest of Kamurocho meant not only was he busy, but he needed to uphold an image and make sure his son wasn't too involved with that life. In this, it seems apparent that Arakawa's conditions to be a parent weren't exactly ideal, and as a result it's fair to assume he potentially 'under performed' in some aspects due to these circumstances, so to say (we see he keeps himself active in Masato's life when he's an adult, so it's not as though I'm proposing it's a case of neglect. It's unfortunate we really don't get more of the Arakawa Family's family life to better understand their circumstances).
Thank you for your compliments on my comparison post! I didn't want to come off as bothersome, but I'll make sure to tag you in any future posts I make that are inspired by you ^^ Honestly, I thought my post was a bit messy on some parts, but I'm thrilled to hear it was comprehensive- and of course, I've love to hear your input on any points in the future if you ever feel like sharing them!
The topic of RGG spinoffs has been a topic between a friend and I every now and then (though I never would have expected a French Revolution game????), so it's astounding to hear about the various ideas that have been floating around (I would be excited the most for a game about Hanzo though- I remember obsessing over him while I was in middle school for whatever reason lmao)! In any case, spinoffs would be a great way to utilize one-off characters: it might not be mainline or technically canon, but being able to see the characters again is never something I can complain about so long as the game's fun and the story's engaging!
I'll make sure to keep you posted on how I feel about Princess Toyotomi and Hero SP: I have an insatiable need to share everything on my mind, so I'll undoubtedly talk about them and whatever thoughts I have! Again, I have to apologize about spoiling the end like that- I really didn't expect them to go that way either when I first saw it honestly! But I can't say it was a terrible ending- unfortunate, but I wasn't super mad about it.
Now returning to the state of RGG's translations, that is especially weird in that situation in particular when they have a similar line in the same (or about the same, anyway) scene? As you've said, it might have been an unfortunate case of penning in something based off of independent thought, though it's still unfortunate because it did have the potential to alter not just the scene itself, but Arakawa's character as well (and of course, we would have hoped RGG wold improve when it comes to sensitive topics at this point).
And onto a point I've been weirdly excited to get to, the case of Jo and how the west seemed to handle him. Maybe it's because of America's tendency to make marketing more 'aggressive' (my personal favorite case is making Kirby appear angrier in ads? Because rage and cute-pink-puffball makes sense to me), so opposed to a more grey portrayal they went with something more blunt. Though, it's incredibly strange that Jo seemed to receive such a 'particular' treatment when it came to marketing? My only theory is that they just really wanted Jo's 'reveal' in the Coin Locker Baby chapter to be all the more impactful, but it's just messy honestly.
More importantly, the change of his style's name is also really unfortunate to me. As you've said, it strips interesting aspects of his character away, and a major aspect of his character is evidently guilt. I can't fathom trying to construct his character to be violent without reason, it really undermines what makes him so compelling.
Though, I guess if it's anything, from what I've seen this change in presentation has done little to impact people's perception of him (but maybe that's because I haven't really seen anyone else in the west talk about him...)
8 notes
·
View notes