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clearancecreedwatersurvival · 8 months

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Honestly this sequence in itself should be enough to convince anyone to watch the wheel of time. Look at this fucking incredible fight scene. She’s destroying an entire squad of soldiers while actively in labor. This show is doing the aiel So Fucking Right, and I am going to LOSE MY SHIT when Aviendha gets introduced this week.

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#wot show #wot on prime #wot #wheel of time #aviendha #unreasonably attractive fandom #wotch wot #caitie speaks #aviendha posting #Youtube

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dubiousculturalartifact · 8 months

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between Aviendha & Egwene’s predicaments, & the final bit with Lanfear -official Theme of the episode: fucked up bondage scenarios

#the wheel of time #wot show spoilers #wot on prime #wheel of time spoilers #cursed posting #sorry not sorry #lanfear #aviendha #egwene al'vere

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sapphicspearopinions · 8 months

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AVIENDHA AVIENDAH DVEI AVI MY LOVE MY WIFE MY BUTCH BOYFRIEND LIGHT OF MY LJFE

#liveblog #leo posts #wot show #wot spoilers #aviendha

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asmodean-deserved-better · 2 years

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my hot take of the day is that all this falling-in-love-because-destiny-says-so hot nonsense between rand, min, elayne and aviendha is actually supposed to be nonsensical and annoying because rand not being able to even fall in love and be loved in return without it being preordained is an important part of the narrative

#i mean i don't know what rj actually intended #and he still couldn't write compelling romances #but rand not having free will even in his love life seems pretty deliberate #rand al'thor #min farshaw #elayne trakand #aviendha #wheel of time #my post #wot book spoilers

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killldeer · 2 years

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your tag on that warrior cats post abt the one cat talking like moiraine is so correct. i was looking at the words and thinking "why does this sound like moiraine in the eye of the world" why is this cat talking like shes informing a farmboy of his great heroic destiny

would you believe me if i told you that i was also 👌 this close 👌 to comparing firestar (rusty) to rand before deciding it would be too on the nose

#LITERALLY a ginger village teenager living in the countryside abt to go into a much larger world and become a huge leader #fuck it. wot warriors au. greystripe is mat. sandstorm is aviendha. cinderpelt is nynaeve. tigerstar is moridin. im getting brain damage #but uh yeah. that post literally made me want to reread the first book for a minute bc of how strongly her dialogue sounded like moiraine 😳#warriors #asks #transkenobis

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butterflydm · 7 months

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wot rewatch (book spoilers edition) 2x8

So this post is gonna have some casting and location spoilers about s3, as well as book spoilers through book 14: a memory of light.

Thoughts about Egwene as the modern-age counterpart to Lanfear really get into spoiler territory because I think a large part of it is going to come out in Egwene's reaction to Rand moving on from their relationship vs Lanfear's reaction. Lanfear could never get over Lews Therin, but Egwene is going to move on and seek new paths and new relationships of her own. We will probably even (my guess) have Egwene be the one to initiate the 'final breakup' at the start of s3, just like she initiated the breakup in 1x1. I am definitely intrigued by the angle that they'll use for the breakup in s3. Maybe being able to protect Rand here in this episode is going to heal the part of Egwene that has been feeling so guilty over not being able/allowed to protect Rand in 1x8 and she might also then have some anger/frustration that Rand made choices that made it impossible for her to help him. And she wants a partner who isn't going to make choices like that on her behalf.

That they tied in Egwene's striving so hard at the White Tower in with her wanting to protect the people that she cares about also makes it easier for her not to go back to the White Tower next season (as I suspect that she will not; though we'll see - but I suspect that we'll get the arrival in the Waste in ep2 or maybe even the end of ep1). Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne have all seen that there is a bigger fight that needs them right now and going back to train at the White Tower might well be at the bottom of their priority list, even before they hear from Moiraine about what happened in Cairhien.

2. I also feel like the Ishamael-Mat comparison is kinda foreshadowing the Mat-All the Forsaken Who Are Jealous of LTT comparison that we get in a lot of the middle/late books, which we may still get when Sammael and potentially Demandred come into play. Unlike the Forsaken with LTT, Mat is not envious of Rand's high status and title. He doesn't mind being 'in Rand's shadow' and is baffled when Melindhra keeps trying to push him out of said shadow and into seizing the spotlight. He doesn't want it!

Hmm, Forsaken round-up/confirmations. Obviously, we have Lanfear and we had Ishamael. Lanfear will continue to be a presence in s2, I'm currently assuming.

Confirmed:

Moghedien - likely going to be involved in Nynaeve's plotlines, for the most part, I'm guessing. I think she may also take over at least part of Mesaana's plotline. Since all five of the ta'veren are acknowledged as important by the Shadow, she'll even be acting within orders to get obsessed with Nynaeve!

Sammael - Illian is in the picture; I'm guessing we'll get some strong Mat-Sammael compare/contrasts once he's 'on stage'. I'm wondering if Mat will actually be allowed to finish out the Illian plan in the show instead of being yanked away prematurely, and only going to Ebou Dar afterwards? I'm not sure how much we need Mat-in-Salidar in the show. Too soon to really speculate. If we have Sammael... I'm not sure if we get Demandred. They kinda fill the same 'niche' in the Forsaken ecosystem.

Graendal - she just needs to handle chaos somewhere; it doesn't have to be Arad Doman. I think @markantonys suggested the idea of her being the Forsaken who takes over Caemlyn, which is interesting! Both Rahvin and Graendal are big into Compulsion. Not having Rahvin does potentially mean that we don't get Rand balefiring him in order to bring back Aviendha & Mat (and briefly Asmodean, lol), which would be tough to lose. Though they could put that in somewhere else, against a different Forsaken. If they are keeping Rahvin, then Graendal might end up being the Forsaken that gets attached to bothering Perrin, narratively.

Almost certain:

Asmodean - training Rand. I'm hoping he lasts longer in the show than in the books, lol.

Semirhage - taking over Ishamael's place with influencing the Seanchan. But we won't get introduced to her until Tuon also arrives, I'm guessing.

Ishamael died here, so that does imply to me that we're going to get Moridin. I would guess in s5 or s6, to give the rest of the Forsaken time to play on the board for a long while.

Maybe:

The last spot is, for me, a competition between Demandred and Rahvin.

If Demandred - I'm hoping that the show does Taimandred. We haven't seen Taim on-screen, so there's plenty of time for Demandred to kill him and take his place. Taim essentially behaves obsessively jealous over Rand's status in the exact same way as Demandred, just with even worse vibes, lol. They can be combined.

otoh, they already have one of the 'incredibly jealous of LTT' Forsaken lined up for the show, so they might want to bring in another who doesn't really care much about LTT, and do Rahvin instead.

If Rahvin - then he'll go to Caemlyn, but I suspect he wouldn't go there until after Elaida & co have all left the city. Keeping Rahvin in would mean that we would probably be getting Rand balefiring him in order to bring back Mat, Aviendha, & Asmodean.

We do have a pretty healthy variety of motivations among the Forsaken that are lined up for the show, I think. In the books, Semirhage had an alliance with... Demandred and Mesaana, I think, but Mesaana is definitely out and Demandred might be as well, so she might be flying solo.

3. I really love the implication in this scene that Rand is going to potentially design the Asha'man uniforms based on what he was having the male Aes Sedai (including himself) wear during the War of Power.

4. Now that I'm rewatching, I wonder if we're gonna get Rand being treated as a political leader in Falme at the start of s3! Since it may be echoing how Tear was used in the books, as a fulfillment of prophecy.

I love my idea about Caemlyn subbing in for Tear, but Falme really does work for most of that. Maybe something more like... ep1: Falme; ep2: the first split, where Elayne and Nynaeve head off to try to hunt down... idk something, and the rest of the group heads east, ending up in Caemlyn where they meet Gawyn, Galad, & Elaida, ep3: the waste/rhuidean, ep4: tower coup, ep5: alcair dal & capturing asmodean; ep6: battle of two rivers; ep7: nynaeve vs moghedien; ep8: battle of cairhien & the door incident

5. The people of Falme getting saved by Rand in this way also leaves them open to the influence of Masema, who definitely looked like he was Finding Religion at the end of the episode. So Falme may end up being the headquarters of the Prophet of the Dragon. That storyline kinda dragged on in the books in a very annoying way but the bones of it are genuinely fascinating and I think there's a lot that the show could do with it. Because there are two main threads of people who are dangerous due to the Dragon arriving specifically -- there are the people who will hate and fear him but there are also the Dragonsworn who believe that his arrival has broken all previous ties and take it too far due to religious zealotry.

6. Lanfear's full plan, from what I can piece out and with some speculation:

a. Write out a prophecy in blood on the moondial and sell the shattered pieces to Doman, knowing that Moiraine is a likely buyer. She may have done other things to arrange said purchase as well. What I love about this is that it means that she was poking at Ishamael when she asked why he hadn't killed Moiraine, even as she was figuring out how to use Moiraine for her own purposes.

b. Set up an inn in Cairhien and arrange for Rand to stay there. Figure out a way into a relationship with him by taking advantage of his vulnerability. I'm even wondering if all of Rand's bad dreams this season have actually been Lanfear and not Ishamael. I'm pretty sure that the one in 2x6 featured a fake Ishy.

c. I think that Verin & Tomas have potentially been under Lanfear's orders for most/all of the season, given that Lanfear has been invested in Moiraine. And Lanfear being invested in Moiraine makes it... more likely that Selene being a Moiraine cosplay was 100% intentional on her part which is... fascinating. A fascinating look into Lanfear's psychology. I mean, she really did cultivate a very sugar mommy dynamic with Rand.

d. Get most of the pieces in motion... and then her plans get screwed when Barthanes's mom tells Moiraine where Rand went, and Lanfear gets stabbed and temporarily loses her boy. But it's okay! She can adjust her plans! (Theory: I think this is why she had Liandrin talk to Barthanes; she figured out what happened and wanted to punish the Damodred family for ruining her plans -- there really wasn't any actual way for Barthanes to even get to Moiraine to kill her, so that wasn't the real plan; I think it was petty revenge on Lanfear's part)

e. So, Rand goes to sleep and she's able to start working on him. She gets him to agree to go to Falme! Yes! She's so close to her Happy Ending with Lews Therin Telamon Rand al'Thor!

...and then Rand gets captured by the Amyrlin Seat of these new Aes Sedai and Lanfear needs to break her future devoted husband Rand out of jail, ugh, he asks so much of her. (secretly, she wishes he would ask more)

f. So, jailbreak time! With a brief pause to ship Mat Cauthon to Falme. With Lanfear maybe suspecting that Ishamael is wrong about Mat and that things aren't going to go how he expects. She uses Verin to make sure that Moiraine & co are going to go to the Waygate, because she's figured out exactly where she plans to dump Moiraine so that she can play her part of the plan.

There is also some speculation that Maksim may be a darkfriend as well. If he is, then he was also used as a pawn by Lanfear to get another Aes Sedai to help with the plan.

Lanfear also takes this opportunity to further poison the White Tower against Rand, by having his escape tied to a Forsaken rampage on the Foregate.

g. Lanfear has complete faith that Lews Therin Rand is going to successfully take care of Ishamael! That's her man! He can do anything! She just needs to clear the way for him and get him in the right place at the right time, and he'll do the rest. She even makes sure to deliver the Horn of Valere to some of his friends! He's got this in the bag!

h. ...then she makes the mistake of stopping in to say 'hi' to Ishamael and gloat about Rand being in Falme, tipping her hand and causing Ishamael's decision to release the rest of the Forsaken. Oops.

i. Well, Rand has been proclaimed the Dragon (yay!) but now the rest of the Forsaken are free and she's been told she needs to stay away from him (boo!).

j. ...time to come up with a new plan.

6. "I know who kills him. And what he uses to do it."

The wild thing here is that, iirc, it's his unhealable wound that kills Rand's body at the Last Battle, right? Which would mean Min's interpretation of her viewing was absolutely correct -- Mat DOES 'kill' Rand in this episode. It just takes a while before the death actually takes effect. So one of my theories -- that Mat was taking the place of Alivia in being the one who 'helps' Rand die -- that I dismissed because we're way too soon for that... is kinda true?

7. I have to admit, it confuses me when I still see people arguing that Mat is going to need to go to the White Tower to get healed from the dagger. The show made it very clear that he was Not Touching the dagger. His entire plan centered around using the dagger without touching it. And Mat has already spent a lot of time in the White Tower and worked his hardest to try to escape -- why would he go back? Plus, the people making these arguments already know that we're doing book 4 next season. Mat doesn't go anywhere near the White Tower in book 4. And his WT stuff hits some 'rule of cool' buttons but it's not... narratively important (especially if Rahvin didn't make the cut).

Going to Rhuidean and getting his medallion is key to Mat's future developments. And the show has put so much work into his relationship with Rand, so it just seems likely that they would want to build on that in s3 rather than abandoning it so that Mat can doink around the countryside with a variety of companions (it's so bizarre for me to see people prioritizing Mat's book 3 plotline over "Mat enters an alternate dimension to get a special medallion and special weapon that are key to his narrative" - but it's probably the same people who spend, like, ten books hating on the Wondergirls for not being grateful enough to Mat at the Stone of Tear).

8. I do think that we're going to skip Lan's bond having a stop-over at anyone else and have him go straight from Moiraine to Nynaeve. I feel like this stressful period here between the two of them in s2 was standing in for a lot of the tensions that they faced in the books (and that broke them apart in the books) but in the show they are now both on the same page -- they're both committed to "protecting Rand, guiding him" and we know that Moiraine approves of Nynaeve (and that LAN knows that she does) from the end of s1.

They may have some friction next season over the best way to help Rand, potentially, as Rand may be frustrated with Moiraine proclaiming him as the Dragon without his permission, but I don't think it'll get as bad as it does in the books (especially since I kinda feel like we might be 'losing' Moiraine at the end of the season).

9. The fact that we did not see Turak's room of curiosities makes me even MORE curious about whether or not a certain redstone doorway is there. That we ended the episode at the climax of the battle rather than getting any downtime after makes me feel like we are going to have at least one episode at the start of s3 where everyone is together so that we can establish the new group dynamics. That could take place in Caemlyn, like I've speculated, or it could take place here in Falme. They also might have left it open because they weren't sure if they could get this location back for s3 filming, so didn't want to commit to where the doorway might be located.

Given what Rafe & co have said about s3 being a 'closer adaptation' of bk4, I am leaning towards us getting a lot of those early 'book Tear' elements in whatever city we open with next season.

10. I suspect that we may get an Ingtar-ish storyline with a different character in the future. In the books, it is a cool moment, but it's cool because we had time to build up Ingtar's relationship with Rand and Rand was able to offer him a kind of absolution. If we hadn't needed to recast Mat and then restructure the entire s2 plotline, then maybe we would have had that kind of time, but that's the realities of working in television, especially in this, our time of Covid.

We've had a lot of complex Darkfriends on the show so far (while in the books, we only really get Ingtar and... Asmodean, I guess? Literally can't think of any others, lol) and so we might see this plotline pop up again once we have the time to spend with one of our mains bonding with a character who ends up being a Darkfriend.

Potential candidates: Lanfear ("Light help you, Rand al'Thor" - calls upon the Light to give him aid?), Asmodean, Liandrin (via her relationship with Nynaeve)

11. "Lanfear, Lews Therin, and Ishamael were inseparable before the War of Power" kinda implies to me that... Lews didn't meet Ilyena until after the War of Power had begun? I really am curious about what they're planning to do re: Ilyena. She was LTT's main focus in the books, but hasn't even been mentioned by name yet in the show. I mean, in the books, she was one of the classic Fridged Wives ever tbh, so I certainly don't mind some adjustments, but I am VERY curious. And with what the precise timeline of it was, in this version of the story.

12. I'm thrilled that Seta and Renna were killed off, tbh. I'm hoping it means that the second circus plotline is just as dead as they are. It was... genuinely one of the Worst Times that I ever had reading any PoVs in the entire series. But Egwene wanted to kill Renna in the books too! She only didn't because Nynaeve stopped her! And Nynaeve's not here. So all that felt pretty in-line with the book characterization.

And it gives Egwene a big moment here, which is good because... honestly, she doesn't do that much in TSR that I can think of? She... trains, mostly, lol. She doesn't get any huge moments like this, as far as I can recall. That is maybe the one reason that I can think of for sending the Wondergirls back to the White Tower, to give Egwene the Big Moment of her Accepted test. But Egwene's next big thing is really becoming Amyrlin, from what I remember. Am I forgetting some stuff from TSR or TFoH?

Rand has Rhuidean and becoming Car'a'carn

Nynaeve has Moghedien (and maybe Egeanin, if they do that plotline - they might have the Seanchan take next season or two off to 'regroup')

Mat has Rhuidean and visiting the foxes

Perrin has the battle of the Two Rivers

But Elayne is mostly Nynaeve's sidekick in Tanchico, from what I remember, and Egwene is mostly just tagging along with the Wise Ones and training. They can get some cool stuff out of her learning to be a Dreamer but there isn't really a 'climatic moment' in that in TSR or TFoH that I can think of.

(I wonder if the Birgitte bonding might happen next season? because they'll want to show Moghedien's threat level and what she does to Birgitte is a pretty good show of force)

13. Talking about how the Mat & Rand relationship is more complex than Mat & Perrin's -- this is very true to the books, of course, (until Perrin became Everyone's Closest Friend in ToM/AMoL) but it also feeds into Mat being a part of Rand's storylines next season (and probably all/most of s4) while Perrin goes back to the Two Rivers for most of s3. Mat and Rand's relationship is going to be more relevant, so it makes sense to load it up with more tension and more complexity. And given how close they've made Mat and Rand, I suspect that their storylines may dovetail even more in the show than they did in the books (and they already did a LOT in the books). And they might even continue to TALK about all the trauma that they have in common instead of being right next to each other and never having a conversation about it.

14. Mat being Rand's only hope being connected to the Horn and connected to the unhealing wound that will eventually kill him in Shayol Ghul... they really have twined Mat and Rand's narratives more tightly than the books did, which is delightful (especially with Mat being a Hero of the Horn in this version of the story, which means that Mat and Rand hang out together in TAR between incarnations).

It does make me very curious if Olver is going to exist in this version, since Mat is now not just tied to the Horn by ta'veren coincidence but by his own nature. Olver is kinda an easy character to cut, since he only ever does two things: a. gets Mat trapped in Ebou Dar so that he can get locked into his fate & b. blows the Horn in the Last Battle. If they're doing something different with Mat & Tuon, then Olver might not be needed for the first thing. And there's no reason for Mat not to blow the Horn himself in the Last Battle.

Narratively, because they HAVE been winding Mat and Rand's stories more tightly together, it would be pretty unsatisfying for Mat and Rand to separate in s4 (or s5?) and then literally never see each other again until they get a five-minute conversation in, like, ep 4 of season 8, so I suspect/hope that the show will find ways to let them reunite sooner than that. I mean, it was pretty damn unsatisfying in the books, let me tell you.

15. The show did such a good job setting up the Two Rivers storyline for next season, imo. I love that they put together Perrin's two "whitecloaks crimes" into the same issue and that Dain witnessed it first-hand instead of going after Perrin based on hearsay. I think we'll potentially see a real exploration of Perrin's guilt over Laila vs his inability to feel guilty about killing Bornhald next season. Plus adding Faile into the mix is likely going to make Perrin feel even guiltier (and I believe that Slayer is confirmed as well? It's gonna be busy in the Two Rivers for Perrin). I think we might get the 'trap' for Faile next season and it'll be what make Perrin realize that he has feelings for her but I don't think we're getting the quickie wedding. That feels WAY too fast.

16. It's hard to talk about Hopper's death without spoilers! Because this is very much not the end of Hopper's storyline. I'm expecting that Hopper is still going to be Perrin's teacher in the wolfdream, so we're probably going to see him just as much next season as we did this season, if not more. What a good actor in that dog, though, wow. Such a good start towards Perrin at the end. Hopper has been so delightful and I've loved what he's added to Perrin's storyline.

17. @markantonys did a really good post on the differences between why book!Mat thinks of himself 'not a hero' vs why show!Mat does, and I just want to link it here and co-sign. But that's really why this moment in the show, for Mat, works for me so well.

All of the characters, while they do have a core that comes from the books, are affected by the changes that the show has made. And Mat has been particular affected, because the realities of television impacted his character more than most due to the recasting, etc.

But even apart from that, Mat is different because he has gone through different experiences: he's known for over a year that one of them would be the Dragon so when he reunites with Rand, knowing that Rand's the Dragon, he's not going to have the same reaction that he did in the books because he has had time to adjust to the idea and it's not a nasty surprise.

Mat has a different relationship with heroism in the show because we lost our original Mat due to the shooting delays of Covid, and we had to leave Mat behind at the Waygate, meaning that he abandoned his friends out of fear. That profoundly changes his trajectory and means that a lot of work needed to be put into building his character back up again. Show!Mat NEEDS to be a Hero of the Horn in a way that book!Mat never did, because it provides external validation for him coming through the pain and loneliness and guilt and shame that he has been living in for the past few months.

18. After checking discussion on the subreddit, it is GENUINELY fascinating to me how many fans misremember book!Mat as getting his own past lives' memories rather than getting a mishmash of (mostly) war memories from the random people who visited the 'finn. I do think it's possible that this moment HAS been meant to replace that and Mat gets to use his own memories for all his general'ing needs, but it's also possible that these memories are going to fade after a while (and maybe that's the drive that makes Mat go to the 'finn, instead of asking for his memory-holes to be filled, he wants his past lives' memories back?). Mat does have some ancient memories that get triggered a couple of times in the early books (before Jordan was planning to send him to the 'finn, imo, and when Mat was going to be the one to go back to the Two Rivers) but those are not the same as the memories that the 'finn gave him.

19. We're also seeing a bit of LTT foreshadowing here, I think, in seeing how Mat remembering some of his past lives gives him access to fighting skills that he didn't have before. So when Rand starts pulling from LTT's memories, viewers can go back to this scene and connect the similarities.

20. Uno is Gaidal Cain! (from what Rafe has said in interviews) Good for him! I wonder if they're going to split up the 'dream conversations' next season and have Uno be the one who talks to Perrin and warns him about things, since they already have an emotional connection, while Brigitte is the one who runs across Egwene & the other Wondergirls (I absolutely do not remember the timeline of any of that, to be frank). I believe also, from what has been said, that this is not the final Birgitte actress, which is why they didn't focus on her much. Maybe we'll get Uno and Perrin hanging out in s3, and then Birgitte's storyline in s4?

21. I really am wondering how they plan to play out Rand's romantic situation in s3. There are still quite a few show-only viewers who are invested in Rand & Egwene as endgame, but also quite a few show-only viewers who clocked what a romantically-framed introduction that Rand and Elayne just had to each other. I don't want the show to rush Rand and Elayne's romance, so I'm still leaning towards them not starting anything next season, with the focus in the initial episode before they separate being on Rand and Egwene's breakup, and then Rand and Aviendha coming together over the course of s3 but... that really was a very disney-princess Romantic (TM) introduction shot, very "Eric meets Ariel" in The Little Mermaid (someone made the comparison using screenshots).

22. Did Suroth die? We don't actually see a body. This may be a situation where it was left ambiguous because they don't plan to have her in s3 and the actress might not be available when they do need their Seanchan antagonist again, so safest to leave her in a quantum state.

23. I am absolutely imagining the rest of the Forsaken watching Rand and Ishamael's encounter and then immediately fleeing once they see Rand take down Ishy, with Moghedien being voluntold to stay behind to talk to Lanfear.

24. Hmm, thinking about Masema. So Masema watches Ingtar get cut down by the Seanchan soldiers, he watches Perrin's friend Mat open the box to the Horn and then rush off to deliver it. And then he sees the dragon on the tower at the end. So he's seeing this huge difference between what a normal lord can do, and what was accomplished by the Dragon and his people. I'm not sure how in-depth we're going to be going with the Prophet of the Dragon storyline, but we definitely had seeds planted for it here.

25. We also seemed to have an interesting progression of who stands next to Rand, where, and when. Because first Rand is up alone on the ledge (while everyone has a group hug behind him), then we see Mat revealed to one side while Egwene steps up on the other. Then Nynaeve and Perrin join together, between Rand and Egwene. And in the final shot of them, we see that Elayne is standing between Mat and Rand.

I'm not going to put any particular meaning on any of that (at least at this time), just noting it.

It's a great shot.

26. I wonder if Ishy gave the others like, a short presentation on What This New Age Is Like.

That was such a good season of television! I'm really looking forward to what they're going to do with TSR, it's one of my very favorite of the books.

#butterfly watches wot #wot #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot show spoilers #wot prime spoilers #wot s2 spoilers #wheel of time s2 spoilers #wot 2x8 spoilers #wot book spoilers #a memory of light

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clearancecreedwatersurvival · 8 months

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Okay so I have been listening to the soundtrack on repeat right, I was SO fucking hyped when Aviendha gave the ‘perrin aybara do you like to dance’ line and then her battle theme music started up with the ji’e’toh old tongue lyrics 😭🤘🏻

That scene RULED I love the change of Aviendha taking Gaul’s place meeting Perrin, this was a PERFECT re-introduction for the aiel following the Tigraine scene in s1.

#aviendha posting #wot show #wot show spoilers #wheel of time #lorne balfe

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archanonhiru · 3 months

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Could Wheel of Time characters survive Castle Dracula? (I saw the could your fave survive Castle Dracula vlog and submitted Mat then decided wait I want to do this myself). Also we're ignoring the ability to just portal yourself away for the purpose of this.

Rand: I mean yeah 100%, if it's late game he has sheer overwhelming firepower on top of having diagetic plot armor. Early game his plot armor and farm boy earnestness would probably carry him through (would take the crucifix, doesn't need to shave apparently, would explore, would survive the girlies if only by having Dracula show up at the right time, would choose to stay rather than face the wolves, could survive the climb down (see Shadar Logoth, the Caemlyn Palace, general ta'averen stuff). This is basically a matter of how far has he progressed in becoming a war machine as to whether Dracula gets incinerated or not.

Mat: Early game (pre-dagger healing) absolutely not, he's too paranoid, Dracula would eat him day 1. Post dagger healing, and especially post Rhuidean, yeah he survives. He'll take the crucifix (bitchily), play Scheherezade (bitchily), survive the girlies (bitchily) if only because of luck, would continue to play to his outs and choose not to face the wolves, and I do not believe a cliff would kill him.

Perrin: oh this one's funny. Perrin survives, but that's because he's a wolf and Dracula just goes 'sweet, free minion' and mind controls him.

Nynaeve: One way or another, yes. Her whole thing is pulling bullshit out of her ass whenever she's in a situation that should be all rights get her killed. She's arguably more ta'averen then the ta'averen when it comes to surviving near death experiences. She tugs her braid at Dracula when the crying baby shows up, gets furious, and evaporates them with her mind. Or Lan shows up for no reason. Or if it's late game Nynaeve she decides to learn to fix vampirism and just does it.

Egwene: at no point in the series would Egwene survive Castle Dracula except possibly through overwhelming firepower. Her go to method of surviving imprisonment is to out stubborn them, which works because the people who capture her want her alive. Dracula does not care. She would not give him what he wants reaction wise so she dies.

Moraine: 50/50, but if she survives it's through killing Dracula. She's too competent, even if she tries to play along and appease it'd be too obviously practiced and Dracula would go for the throat. It depends how much she knows about what she's walking into and whether her standard precautions see her through long enough to figure it out.

Lan: Lan dies. He's a badass but he's still human and his points are optimized for combat not social combat.

Thom Merrilin: This is actually the toughest call I have. He's specifically a spy/actor/assassin so I guess it depends on how good he is at dissembling. However, he also is very good at mysteriously surviving off screen events so. Jury is out

Elayne: Dies. She's not making it out of this one. She's not even got the same level of brute force Egwene gets to save herself.

Aviendha: probably dies, but I think she has a chance to fight her way free either through Dracula and the girlies or through the wolves.

Bonus Min: gets vampirized and is now Dracula's personal seer.

#Wheel of time #Dracula

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deeplyridiculouslyinlove · 3 months

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Ranking Wheel of Time Characters and their Narrative Arcs

I've been thinking about a post like this since probably book 8, so here we go. My ranking of the arcs of the major characters in the Wheel of Time book series, and separately my ranking of those actual characters (because they are not the same!!)

Arcs:

Nynaeve

I could say a literally never-ending amount of things about my darling Nynaeve. I think she has the most internal development of any character in the series, which makes her feel especially human to me. Getting to watch her learn that her anger is rooted in fear and a lack of control and to confront that was so powerful and it felt very real. Watching her grow from hating Moiraine to standing beside Moiraine at the end with Rand made me so emotional. And speaking of Rand, it was so nice to have one of the original Emonds Fielders with him in the later books to witness his descent--I think it added depth and believability both to her character and her position having cared for the younger ones when they were kids, and also really helped humanize Rand. While I tend to think Nynaeve's relationship with Lan is really random since they barely speak to each other when they fall over their skis in love with one another (apparently), by the end of the books I'd accepted it and it also made me emotional when she went behind Lan's back to find all the other Malkieris to ride into battle with him. I just feel really proud of Nynaeve and want the world for her and I'm glad that she was given a real growth arc the series.

2. Mat

So I grew from thinking Mat was a bit annoying and childish, to finding him fine as a character but listening to his chapters at 1.6 speed because I didn't care about carousing at inns or random bands of fighters, to having his chapters be my favorite. And I think that's because Mat really evolves throughout the series in a way that still feels very believable and true to the same person/character. He's is written so well as a character learning lessons while staying true to the core of who he was in the first book. I felt a lot of pride for Mat when he rescued Moiraine, and although I saw some chatter by folks on the internet that they'd be fine if the Daughter of the Nine Moons thing doesn't happen in the show, I actually really liked his relationship with Tuon because it was one of the few relationships we saw actually build and develop slowly. Despite being a fated relationship, they also spend time together and develop a rapport. It was a fated marriage not fated love, and I thought that worked much better than the fated loves of Rand’s polycule. I also liked that Mat and Tuan's relationship had some ambiguity until the end; although they clearly cared for one another, we never saw them come to really understand one another, which felt authentic to the situation they were in. Mat is also one of the very few men in these books who actually recognizes that there are things he doesn't know and doesn't need to be involved in, and I appreciate that from a male character in what ultimately remains a pretty patriarchal world despite RJ's structural changes to society (I can back up this statement about patriarchy, but that is a whole separate post). I think this is likely at least in part because Mat doesn't engage with the Power, which is the part of the books that most upholds patriarchal stereotypes and values. Now I'm rambling about Mat more than his arc, but I think he both has a lot of depth and grows internally in significant ways and I really appreciate it!

3. Aviendha

I love Aviendha as a character, and I think her arc is another really good example of slow internal growth. We see get to see her go from Maiden to Wise One to the person who discovers the new message hidden in Rhuidian and what that means for her entire people. We see her struggle with what it means to have left the Waste and what she feels is right for the future. And all of this without that many point-of-view chapters compared to other characters! Aviendha's relationship with Rand also feels the most authentic to me of any of his three women. We actually get to see their dynamic build and see them spending time together, it’s not just like “oh I’m fated to love him!” They also spend time apart and Aviendha doesn't spend that time pining over him, but rather focused on her own goals and the bigger picture. From the narrative, I get why they like each other and also why they are a good match for each other. I don't love her getting injured in the way she does at the Last Battle because I'm not really sure what purpose it serves (I guess it's the ultimate sacrifice for an Aiel to not be able to walk or fight?), but if my biggest qualm with her arc is only at the very end, I'll still rank it quite high.

4. Egwene

When I started reading the books and talking to friends about the gender dynamics in them and the female characters, so many of them mentioned how Egwene gets one of the best arcs in the series. And while I don't disagree with that (I have her ranked in the top 5 still!), I think the fact that Egwene is not a ta'veren in the series really hurts her arc in the later books. Once she's Amyrlin, and particularly once she goes back to the tower as Amyrlin, I feel like she starts to get plot armor that detracts from her actual development. All she has to do is talk and people are completely swayed to her side in a way that I think sort of stunts her internal growth. I loved her time with the Wise Ones in the Waste and with the Aiel and I think it really showcased her eagerness and dedication in a way I related to, and it made her growth in Tel'aran'rhiod and becoming the Amyrlin feel really deserved. Her ending was tragic and powerful and somehow it both doesn't feel like what she deserved but also feels like it lives up to Egwene and I feel really conflicted about it!! I'm was very meh on the Gawyn stuff, since I don't think it really added anything and he's a bit of a downer of a character--honestly, Egwene is the character in the books I most wish had just not had to have a romantic relationship. That said, unlike a lot of other relationships in the seires, we at least see Egwene's feelings for Gawyn develop over time in the dream world so it wasn't as frustrating for me as some other characters' romantic arcs.

5. Rand

For me Rand's and Egwene's arcs are really really close in terms of how much I like them, but I think there are things missing in the execution of Rand's arc that make it a bit lower for me--had it been done slightly better (from my perspective) I think it would have edged out Egwene. I really *want* to empathize with Rand starting around book 11 when his PTSD and the weight of everything else he’s carrying really starts to impact him. But because he spent the first five books whining about how everyone is trying to use him as a puppet (and particularly suspecting literally any woman with power before he had been given any reason to do so), his later arc doesn’t lead well into him then being someone you’re supposed to empathize with in my opinion. Particularly because his whole arc in the later books is about love and compassion, but I don't feel like we get that from him in the early books? I find it very confusing. I think for that progression to work we really needed a part of his arc where trusting and/or showing compassion to someone leads to serious harm, then he turns hard, and then he remembers the need for compassion. Maybe I’ve just forgotten it but I really can’t think of anything at all like that first step in the books? He distrusts the people who eventually hurt him? And things generally work out for him, even though he’s struggling internally? Anyway, this rating is higher than it otherwise would be because of how much I *want* it to work because having a chosen one who so clearly struggles with the weight that destiny places on him is interesting and the madness angle is also interesting to me. Oh also, I think Rand should have actually died at the end and that not doing so makes his arc more boring, sorryyyyy.

6. Faile

Faile is another character I really wanted more for. I hated the weird dynamics in her relationship with Perrin, but I could have liked them together without the physical abuse and if the power dynamics had felt more consensual and didn't have this whole element of her expecting Perrin to behave towards her in a way that he clearly didn't want to. Her being the lady to his lord was cute! I also liked Faile's progression from being a Hunter of the Horn to guarding the horn at the end. I like how self suffiicient she was and how she was able to find a way to combine what she was born for/raised for and what her parents wanted for her (being a noblewoman) with what she wanted (adventure and love).

7. Perrin

I have very few real issues with Perrin's arc and I’m sure other people liked it a lot. My ranking it relatively low is much more that it bored me and I left the series unsure of what it was trying to say than it being a bad arc or doing Perrin a disservice. I hated Perrin's relationship with Faile, and I hated that I hated it because (as discussed above) I think it had a lot of potential. Like Mat, I appreciated that Perrin did not think he needed to be involved in everything nor that he was always right, and I found his growth from boy to man quite believable and that it took place over the course of the books in a way that was well-constructed. I found the whole question of hammer vs axe and his contemplation of the Way of the Leaf to be really interesting! But I'm not sure I fully grasped the resolution of that debate and what the entire focus on it in the narrative was trying to say. And I feel the same about his struggle with the wolf side of him. Is the point just that violence is sometimes needed? And/or that it eats us up from inside? (But also that we have to accept that?)

8. Elayne

I want to do my best to separate Elayne from her arc, since I personally don't love her character for reasons purely of personal preference. I think the reasons her arc specifically is lower for me is that I feel like we don't get to see her growing into being a queen, since one of her primary character traits is that she is already so royal when they all meet her. I think the decision to have her win her crown in Caemlyn with a battle where they just snuck up behind the other forces was a weak one -- why couldn't they have defeated these people before if it was that easy? I also don't love that she gets no time to like learn how to be a queen before she is more focused on becoming a mother. The whole pregnancy arc doesn't sit quite right with me. She sleeps with Rand literally once and it's basically just to get pregnant? But this just builds off of what I dislike about how she just decides she's in love with Rand one day because she is fated to be. Give me the scene where they bond over war strategy and thinking like rulers like six books earlier instead of in the last book! It also seems like there's no reason she and Aviendha couldn't have become friends before realizing they both liked Rand instead of because they are forced into proximity by that fact, and I also feel like she and Rand should have spent actual time together before falling for each other--to my mind the way her part of the polycule goes down weakens Elayne's relationships with both Aviendha and Rand, which otherwise could have been interesting.

9. Moiraine

I have far too much to say about my baby Moiraine. I'm including New Spring in these arcs, and reading that made me want to reread the whole series in a new light. I love her. I love her I love her I love her. And to me New Spring makes her arc in the main series both more powerful and more tragic. Seeing in New Spring just how determined she is and also how much self-doubt she carries and how much her Aes Sedai serenity of the later books is disguising inner turmoil is so rewarding. I wish we had gotten to see so so much more of it. I know that she has to be mysterious to our main characters, but I don't think she has to be mysterious to the readers, particularly once we are more than a few books into a fourteen book series. To that end, I know why she had to go away (she is the Merlin character after all!), but I wish she had come back a few book sooner and we could have seen literally any interiority about reckoning with her time in the Tower of Ghenjei. The Moiraine in New Spring would have been going CRAZY both leading up to knowing she had to go through that archway and while stuck in the tower--even if she was being tortured, which she also would have withstood for a while. The fact that she couldn't take action that it was such a passive way of supporting Rand and his mission would have killed her, but also she would have been so very resolute, and I wish we could have seen that more. Instead, she just like shows up right before the last battle, speaks her piece, goes to help Rand (presumably thinking she's going to die??), and we see none of it from her POV! She never sees Siuan again and because we can't see into her mind that's just like...chill?? And obviously I hate the book pairing her with Thom, particularly her *offering to give up her abilities* for him. I see what it adds for his character arc, but what does it add for hers? Plus there is literally no reason to remove her powers and give her that powerful ter'angreal instead. That's just RJ's obsession with disempowering women and I despise it.

10. Siuan

Oh Siuan. My other baby Siuan. I'm only ranking her arc this high because I think it had a lot of potential to be telling an interesting story, but I think her ending was so horrible I can barely think about it. There was so much potential here to be telling a story about how you can have power and influence and be important even if you are less powerful and that the strength to manipulate and steamroll people is not the only way to make a difference, but I feel like this would have been a much more interesting message if she was the only (or one of the few) powerful women to get knocked down like this rather than it happening to literally every woman with power at the beginning of the series in one way or another. I particularly hated that with Siuan they did this knocking her down a peg in a way that made her younger and pretty for an old man (when she was only like 40 in the first place I might add!)--and she also started acting younger in a way that felt strange. I liked her teaching Egwene, but why couldn't she have some of the teacher vibes Moiraine did? And the way she dies with no one noticing or caring and it making basically no difference to the plot is so horrible. And, I'm sorry, it's not what the character deserved. Nor was it in line with the message I thought her arc was trying to send about the ability to have an impact no matter how unpowerful in traditional ways. And it happens because she doesn't stay with a man?!?! No one even knows she mattered after she was deposed and it’s all so unfair.

11. Lan

I feel like Lan doesn't really grow that much as a character since he spends the entire series basically just expecting to die in various ways at different times. Even with New Spring I don't feel like we get a good sense of what his character is meant to be doing besides impacting other characters in the series. I am not against his relationship with Nynaeve, but I don't think the books flesh it out very well. And I'm still mad he ends the series mad at Moiraine--where is their New Spring dynamic of him vibing with her even when he's annoyed with her? Obviously his leading the Malkieri into the blight really hit me in the feels and was a great culmination of his plight, however, which is why I still think the arc deserves an honorable mention.

12. Thom

Thom's arc is basically just from hating Aes Sedai to marrying Moiraine, and getting continually paired with weirdly young women. I guess he learns to overcome prejudice based on his nephew's death? I do like the role he plays with Rand and Mat and their respective character development as they grow up from the Two Rivers to adventurers, but I'm not sure that's really his arc or development. But for that I'm giving him a higher ranking than his Moiraine arc alone deserves.

13. Tuan

I don't think think Tuan gets that much of an arc. While she becomes Empress, she doesn't seem to grow or change her mind on things during the series, and mostly she puts aside things she doesn't like very much with intentions of dealing with them later. BUT I like how her and Mat challenge each other and engage with each other, and I think the internal growth is somewhat implied or is something that would have happened if we had had more time with her. I wish the entire Seanchan plot was more resolved at series end, but that's not specific to Tuan.

14. Loial

This may be controversial, but I don't like Loial's arc very much! I don't think he needed to get married! I'm glad he seems happy about it in the end, but it feels unnecessary. I loved him adventuring and writing his book and being sort of childlike in a really endearing way, but everything with his mom and with Erith took him out of the story for a long time and seemed to be sending the message that ultimately everyone wants to settle down. Let him explore and write his book and be a late bloomer! Idk.

15. Min

I am ranking Min even below the characters that only have a fraction of an arc because I loved Min so much in the earlier books and I hate the way the series treated her subsequently. When we first meet her she is determined to be fully herself, despite a talent that makes her stand out and a personality inclined against confrontation. She's brave and interesting! I hated watching her become more ladylike for Rand, and for a while essentially being absolutely nothing more than a lover and comfort for Rand. I really wish we had had more lingering payoff for the many books that Min was reading and trying to parse out what the prophecies meant, but it felt like Cadsuane was basically like "yes I agree" and then...it was no longer about Min having figured it out?

And just for fun, here would be my list of these same characters from ones I like most to ones I like least (although I like them all tbh!!)

Characters:

Moiraine (main trilogy + new spring)

Nynaeve

Egwene

Moiraine (main trilogy only)

Aviendha

Mat

Siuan (main trilogy AND main trilogy + new spring)

Loial

Rand

Lan (main trilogy + new spring)

Perrin

Lan (main trilogy only)

Faile

Elayne

Tuan

Thom

#no one asked for this but here we are!#sorry if your fave isn't here I literally just picked the people I thought had significant character arcs #plus a few folks we spent a lot of time with so it felt necessary I guess #I feel like I got grumpy in a lot of my reviews but I actually really like the characters and putting them in order was really hard!!#I just wished for more for many of them because they deserved better #narratively speaking #wot book spoilers #wheel of time

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kevin-sedai · 11 months

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Wheel of Time pool party

Elayne: Decided to have a pool party because she got a new in-ground pool installed. Planned on keeping the look of it secret, but ends up ruining it herself with all the selfies she posted on Instagram.

Aviendha: Is floored by all the water that wetlanders get to just float in and play games. Is first angry at the waste of water, but Elayne enjoys it, so why not her? She takes a bunch of pictures with it and in it to send to the Wise Ones. They never answered.

Egwene: Got there early to help Elayne set up, but ends up setting up by herself because Elayne is playing Marco Polo with Aviendha.

Nynaeve: Shows up shortly after Egwene and brought water and cupcakes. She helps Egwene until she gets sprayed by something in the back. Turns around and sees Mat with one of her cupcakes, whom she begins to chase with promises that he'll regret the first kiss his father gave to his mother when she catches him.

Mat: Shows up with so much beer. Like, so much. Also brought water guns. Nynaneve just needs to lighten up. It's water. Is in a speedo.

Moiraine: Shows up with Thom and ice cream sandwiches no one thanks her for. Siuan is there. She spends a lot of time in the deep end.

Siuan: Is so excited to see Moiraine is finally able to swim so well in the deep end. She came with Gareth Bryne, who can't swim at all. Goes to swim with Moiraine.

Thom: The self-appointed DJ. He does not take requests and asks Gareth to bring him drinks. Anyway, here's Wonderwall.

Perrin: Is so excited. Once he and Faile say hello to everyone, he jumps in the pool. He mostly stays in the shallow end because, you guessed it, he can only doggy paddle. Swimmies are too small for his blacksmith arms.

Faile: Is already mad at Perrin because he's spending too much time in the shallow end. Berelain is in the shallow end. She calms herself down and gets the volleyball net and ball she brought. She's finally going to show Berelain who's boss.

Berelain: Unbothered by the daggers that Faile is shooting her, because Galad is there, jumping off the diving board. She gets on a float and goes to the deep end to purposely knock herself off when Galad jumps to get his attention. "You make such big waves," she tells him.

Galad: Is so confused; he doesn't make waves when he dives. He perfected diving so long ago. Anyway, he enjoys what time he can before Morgase comes home. She never gave Elayne the okay to have this party, you know.

Rand: Enjoys himself more than he thought he would. Spends a good amount of time on a lounge chair under the umbrella. Gawyn made him a burger and Rand compliments him on how well he did it. Is confused as to why Gawyn throws the spatula down in a rage though.

Gawyn: Self-appointed grill master. That is, until al'Thor had to ruin it. He made that burger well-done on purpose because he thought al'Thor wouldn't like it like that, but he does anyway? Goes to assert his pool party dominance by doing a flip off the diving board. Belly flops.

Min: Amused that Gawyn belly flops. Figured that's what the red circle she saw over his head was about. Spends most of the time with Rand and Loial to read. Goes in the pool when the volleyball game starts.

Tuon: Went because Knotai is there, and she wanted to make sure he acted properly. The speedo was her idea. Waited five minutes after Egwene told her to go in the pool to actually go in, because it was her decision. Will not put her head under the water because she didn't want to get her hair wet. "She doesn't even have hair, is she crazy?" Elayne is heard asking.

Lan: He spent most of his time so far sitting at the edge of the pool, trying to tune everyone out. Decided that he couldn't anymore. It is time for the volleyball game.

Birgitte: Took so many pictures of Elayne for Elayne while she does all these poses on floats, at the edge of the pool, and on the pool deck. Sees Lan setting up the volleyball net and ditches Elayne to help him.

The game starts pretty friendly but then becomes incredibly competitive. It ends because Faile spikes the ball into Gawyn's face and leaves a red mark on him. "So that's what the red circle meant," Min is heard saying.

Loial: Takes notes during the whole game. What a crazy summer ritual these humans have.

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cannoli-reader · 3 months

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That stuff in your post on how Egwene should have ended was really harsh on Moiraine! She had no choice, there were only bad options if she didn't do what she did.

Who says? The lady who tells us that the Aiel and Mat & Perrin are not in the Prophecies of the Dragon, who said that women were just as strong in the Power as men, and that the Heroes of the Horn will fight for the Shadow if the wrong person blows it?

Moriaine is not infallible, and this, in particular, is a place where the story itself introduces beforehand, reasons to doubt her assertions. Jordan does this a lot, throwing in the counter-argument before the argument is made.

When Moiraine first went into Rhuidean, we got warnings that the alternative scenarios disappear from your memory, that your mind can't retain it all. She was also told about the dangers of making assumptions about prophecies. The Wise Ones tell her that in every dream they had of her coming to the Three Fold Land, she insisted on going to Rhuidean, only for in reality, Melaine to let it slip that they dreamed Moiraine needs to go through the rings.

What we can take away from this is, is that merely by knowing the future, you alter how it plays out. This happens with Moiraine. She claims that they would inevitably end up on the docks, confronting an enraged Lanfear, but how or why would that have played out? Rand had no intention of going anywhere near the docks. He was going straight to the mustering ground to Skim to Caemlyn. There might have been a delay for the Maidens' intervention, but after being stalled to deal with Sulin's complaints, Rand would have had even less patience for potential delays. The only reason he goes anywhere near Lanfear is that Moiraine insisted he come and everyone around Rand supported her for various reasons of their own. There is also the possibility that seeing Rand & Aviendha in close proximity put their relationship foremost in Kadere's mind, and led to him telling Lanfear about them hooking up. Maybe if he had not seen them, and got confirmation in his own mind, he might not have bothered reporting that tidbit to her, and she might not have flipped her shit.

But even if she does get the word from Kadere, and go psycho looking to kill Aviendha, what good is that going to do her, if Moiraine does not drag Rand & Aviendha down to the docks to set up her "rescue"? Maybe if she comes after them, she pops in in the middle of the battle around the Royal Palace in Caemlyn, and Rahvin kills her, thinking she's after him. Or she takes a random kill shot which are prone to happen in the chaos of a full scale battle. And Moiraine does not get the credit, and keeps sliding down in importance as a mere lackey of Rand, and eventually completely overshadowed when Cadsuane arrives.

A bad faith interpretation of her character might suggest that the timelines branching from the docks were Moiraine's preference, having seen that fate and diminishment, and choosing to set up the dock fight to thwart her own irrelevance. But even putting the best possible intentions on Moiraine, she overlooked the fact that she forgot 99% of what she saw in the rings, and is misinterpreting a warning that going down to the docks has only bad outcomes, except along a very narrow path, requiring a lot of good luck to achieve.

For comparison, look at all the stuff Aviendha gives no indication of remembering from her own spin through the rings:

Rand's revelations about the Aiel backstory

Opening Rhuidean

The battle at Cairhien

Fighting Trollocs in Caemlyn

An encounter with a village of Aes Sedai who want to recruit her

A near-encounter with a Forsaken fleeing Ebou Dar

The Bowl of the Winds

The Seanchan (either encounter)

The destruction of Elayne's gateway

The siege of Caemlyn

All we know she saw was a version of her sexual encounter with Rand that seems to have made her think he was going to rape her, and that there would be a relationship with them and other women.

Absolutely nothing we know about the rings in Rhuidean support Moiraine's assertion that the encounter at the docks was inevitable once they were told of Morgase's death, and there were only three possible outcomes of the confrontation.

#wheel of time #moiraine #propechies

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veliseraptor · 4 months

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Psst top Wheel of Time ships and characters? (Also can I ask for any of your thoughts on Nynaeve?)

I should do a whole separate post on Nynaeve honestly but suffice it to say for this one that I love her very very much, didn't appreciate her nearly enough on my first read but appreciate her more every reread since.

since I love lists, here's a couple lists for you

CHARACTERS

Rand al'Thor. I don't usually latch onto protagonists but when I do they're depressed and a mess! And that's Rand for you. I really appreciate the way that Jordan plays with the Chosen One archetype specifically by looking at the damage it does/can do to a person, and the way that Rand is gradually wrecked by the weight of prophecy and expectation such that the only way to escape it, in the end, is to become not himself. Whatever my feelings about his ending (not entirely positive), I think there's a very painful and poignant statement in there.

Ishamael/Moridin/Elan Morin Tedronai. Who doesn't love a fatalistic villain longing for oblivion and believing that serving evil is the only way to get it! I'm sure that's universal. I wrote sort of a character study of him and I think personally it is one of my underappreciated fics. Couldn't say why, I don't know how this isn't a subject that everyone is clamoring to read.

Min Farshaw. My beloved since the first time I read the series and I don't think it's just because she had short hair like me, though that's probably part of it. I think I just enjoy the way she thinks, her narration, the way she's simultaneously deeply caring and a little bit snarky, the way that she interacts with fate and inevitability. I don't know, I struggle to articulate it. I just know that I loved her first as a character and I still love her.

Tuon (Fortuona) Athaem Kore Paendrag. My problematic fave (other than, I guess, the aforementioned nihilistic actual antagonist). I just...she's fascinating. She's a cipher. She's the embodiment of an evil empire and absolutely going to oversee its downfall. She craves absolute control and copes poorly with not having it. Her dynamic with Mat is my favorite relationship in the series. What a gal.

Nynaeve al'Vere. In contrast to Min, I didn't appreciate Nynaeve enough on early reads (I didn't dislike her, I just didn't appreciate her enough), but that's thoroughly changed and at this point I do think she's one of my favorite characters. She's so contradictory and an unreliable narrator but in a very particular way that I feel like I don't run into very often. She's so much fun to read about, and also trying so hard to prove herself, and so determined to help people (even when they maybe don't want to be helped). She's a healer first and foremost and never loses sight of that, or of her resolve to protect her people. What a gal. But in a very different way than the above.

HONORABLE MENTIONS: Mat Cauthon and Aviendha.

SHIPS

Mat/Tuon. I said their dynamic was my favorite in the series and I meant it. They have such a good courtship, the way they dance around each other and play off each other and play their relationship like a game of strategy is so much fun for me.

Rand/Min. If Min was my first favorite character then Rand/Min was my first OTP (and incidentally the first pairing I wrote porn for!). I think my favorite thing about them is the way that they're friends, or feel like it, in a way that Rand doesn't always feel like friends with the other ladies. Sometimes I appreciate that in a pairing. They just seem like they enjoy each other's company even outside of the romantic aspect, and I love that for them.

Aviendha/Elayne. Welcome to the gayest ostensibly sister relationship in the whole series!!!! No honestly though on reread I was like "how is this not explicitly a thing, I mean, I know why, but Jordan you've established some people are gay in this universe and you have Aviendha lovingly describing Elayne's naked body and, again, the gayest sister-making ceremony I've read, and tell me that they're not totally and completely, romantically and sexually, in love? Fie, I say. Lies and foolishness. They're in love and they're so valid for it.

Nynaeve & Rand. Sneaking an & ship on here! Especially as the series goes on, their relationship is soooo important to me. There's a short list of people who care about Rand-as-Rand with no ulterior motives beyond that, and Nynaeve is near the top of that list. And I love, too, that their dynamic isn't romantic in the least.

Tuon/Egwene. @highladyluck pretty much single-handedly sold me on this one and I'm so glad she did. Absolutely brilliant and galaxy brained. Egwene should've lived just so she and Tuon could have a hideously complicated enemyship. The missed opportunities.

BONUS: Rand/Min/Morshamael Tedronai.

#conversating #anonymous #will say that faile/berelain almost made it on as a bonus #wheel of time #wot book spoilers

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