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toastandjamie · 3 months

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I just- Mat and Thom’s friendship is just so good. Like it’s genuinely such a funny dynamic. Like in the first two books Thom was very solidly in the “I’m Rand’s stand in dad since his real dad can’t be here” camp alongside Lan only for Mat to stumble into a tavern in Tarvalon Thom was trying to drink himself to death in, high off his own luck and having just killed a man by flipping both of them off a bridge and standing up from that unscathed and Mat just goes “wanna go to Camlyn with me?” To note, they haven’t seen eachother since Thom nearly died to a Myrdraal and Mat was Literally The Worst at that point in time because dagger sickness; and Thom just goes “yeah sure.” And for the rest of the series Thom becomes Mat’s therapist/babysitter and it’s so funny.

Like- the things this old man put up with. He just had to sit there and listen to Mat lie to himself in real time like the rest of us. He got front row seats to Mat insisting that he was “no bloody hero” while feeding refugees, taking in orphans, rescuing women and risking his own safety for others constantly. He had to sit through Mat and Rand both coming to him to mope about how they can’t be friends anymore because Rand’s the dragon reborn while in Tear. He had to bare witness to Mat and Elayne glaring at eachother like feral cats the entire Ebou Dar trip playing mediator. Every single crack brained scheme Mat came up with the sneak out of Altara with three Aes Sedai in tow he had to listen to. He was forced to watch Mat’s insane attempts at courting the evil empress of the empire that’s been antagonizing the cast since book two. He had to drag Mat’s rabid ass through the tower of ghenji while trying to keep Mat from getting fed up and just trying to stab the Finn to death with a knife.

Thom might as well have been an honorary member of the band, because he put up with not just Mat’s antics, but Olver’s too. I just love them so much.

#wheel of time #mat cauthon #thom merrilin #wheel of time spoilers #minor wot book spoilers #wot rambles

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pillowfriends · 2 months

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today I was like “hmm maybe Thom and Juilin have a thing” so I started reading the books with that in mind and so far it’s changed nothing, it fits in with canon perfectly. as far as I’m concerned there was a whole rivals to lovers arc with them that RJ forgot to write, and now they’re happily partnered or FWB. it’s free real estate!

#today on “eve comes up with random ships to get invested in”#wheel of time #the shadow rising #the fires of heaven #thom merrilin #juilin sandar

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ladylingua · 6 months

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the guy who plays Thom just wrapped for season three I take it back guys fishwives is dead and Moiraine is about to abruptly marry the gleeman out of nowhere it’s happening lmao

but in actuality I do think it would be fun if their stories on season 3 do intersect and they just become bffs

because Moiraine needs one, like Lan doesn’t count he’s her platonic husband that’s different, and Siuan is her estranged wife that’s also different, I think Thom & Moiraine coming together and exchanging friendship bracelets is what season 3 needs

#wheel of time #wot show spoilers #moiraine damodred #thom merrilin #wheel of prime

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dropoff99 · 1 year

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Reminder for those in their first read through:

Jordan is a firm believer in an unreliable narrator. I’ve been seeing some absolutely WILD takes on on certain characters that I can only assume are from people that haven’t hit later books yet. Most characters have a number of things they won’t admit to themselves, even within their POVs. Some are thinly veiled so you identify them early, others are not and are often a product of that character not knowing themselves or others very well yet. Also when Jordan felt a character had a wrong impression of someone, he felt that it shouldn’t be corrected unless they saw direct evidence to contradict their views on other characters. And while characters certainly miscommunicate It’s not always because Jordan wanted to stall the plot, he just legitimately wanted flaws in the way they thought and understood what was going on in the world.

My POV reliability ranking is below (yes there are spoilers in regards to large character beats but no plot) ranking on how intellectually honest/reliable WoT characters are within their POVs. Note it doesn’t mean I think the people at the top are always right, just that you can trust their internal narrative as being consistent with how they really feel and their read on others is somewhat accurate. Additionally I only ranked the EF5 and some other big characters. If they aren’t on here it has nothing to do with how reliable I believe they are, just that I didn’t rank them.

One last thing: I legitimately love the tool of an unreliable POV character. It allows you to adds depth, intrigue, and unpredictability. It is not a coincidence that the bottom 3 of this list are my favorite characters of the series.

1 Egwene - controversial I know but her time with Gawyn/Wise Ones reveal this the most. Additionally she has a self-awareness about her dynamic with the rest of the cast. Rand and Nynaeve really stick out in this regard. she figures out their dynamic with her a lot quicker than they do. She is generally a step ahead of others and accurately portrays what she sees and experiences IMO.

2 Thom/Lan - their POVs reveal their motivations pretty clearly and they also are very consistent across the series. Additionally their analysis of other characters is really helpful due to general knowledge of the world. I put them behind Egwene because Jordan is very stingy with their POVs.

3 Min - she is the most openly conflicted of the main cast (especially regarding Rand). But I can’t put her reliability as high as the others because Jordan intentionally obscured her interpretations of her visions for obvious reasons and that is such a big part of her character that it drops her.

4 Perrin - as internally honest as they come (especially his guilt) outside of his love interests but this is a HUGE blind spot for him.

5 Rand - despite what some would say on this topic, it’s not so much that he lies to himself, but there are specific and intentional inconsistencies that are plot related. Additionally, the pressure Rand is under definitely clouds his judgement throughout the story but this is usually apparent to the reader.

6 Moiraine - her internal conflict about her schemes/plans as well as her habit of obscuring the truth places her outside of the top 5 but I generally think her POVs are incredibly revealing about what she thinks/feels when you do get them.

7 Elayne - I know you might be thinking… how is she this low? But I believe she lies to herself (even if thinly veiled) on many occasions, especially how she feels regarding her family and close relationships.

8 Mat - the guy is genuinely just a compulsive liar. He lies to himself and others routinely throughout the story. The amount of times he says “this is the last time I (insert any particular thing he does regularly)” even within his POV is astounding. But he does this in such a predictable rhythm that you get used to it very quickly. Also his read on other people within the story is at times so outlandish that you can’t believe he really thinks what his internal dialogue is saying.

9 Aviendha - absolute lunatic internally. I love her to death but what she truly believes is often hidden early on in her POVs and because she comes from such a unique culture Jordan intentionally makes her evaluation of any given circumstance a little confusing. The only reason I would rank her above Nynaeve is because there are legitimate plot mysteries that Jordan did not want to unveil with her early on making her less reliable, which isn’t the same thing as what happens with Nynaeve.

10 Nynaeve - I really don’t want to say much about this because I believe her POV is actually done brilliantly in a lot of ways, it just makes for a frustrating read before you understand her. But to put it simply she is not honest with herself generally and you have to rely on Jordan’s prose and her literal actions to know how she truly feels.

#the wheel of time #robert jordan #mat cauthon #egwene al'vere #rand al'thor #moiraine damodred #perrin aybara #fantasy #aviendha #elayne trakand #nynaeve al'meara #lan mandragoran #thom merrilin #min farshaw

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thenotoriousscuttlecliff · 6 months

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So confirmed now that Thom will be back next season. Interested to see how he'll be reintroduced (will he just randomly show up in Falme?) and which storyline he will be in. While the main characters are all, more or less, following the same path as their book counterparts, the secondary characters are getting shuffled around a bit. Loial basically got Min's role in Falme while Min took Thom's place as Mat's travelling companion. You could feasibly fit Thom into any of the book four storylines, he isn't really all that essential to Elayne and Nynaeve's. To be perfectly blunt, Thom isn't really essential to any storyline, he's pretty much just guy who tags along offering advice.

#wheel of time #wot on prime #wot spoilers #wot book spoilers #thom merrilin #since there's been no mention so far of moiraine's brother #and galad having the last name trakand in the casting #i wonder if the show plans to go all in on thom maybe being elayne's dad #give that plot a bit more substance for both characters #and hopefully avoid all those awkward moments in the book of elayne flirting with him #i can see him maybe doing what he did at the start of tsr and help rand out with playing politics #and even journey into the waste with everyone else #but that party already feels rather crowded #and it would just take screentime away from moiraine #you could also fit him into the tower coup #have him help siuan and the others escape and travel to the rebel camp #which then sends him off into the bowl plot with everyone else

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kevin-sedai · 10 months

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Wheel of Time pool party

Elayne: Decided to have a pool party because she got a new in-ground pool installed. Planned on keeping the look of it secret, but ends up ruining it herself with all the selfies she posted on Instagram.

Aviendha: Is floored by all the water that wetlanders get to just float in and play games. Is first angry at the waste of water, but Elayne enjoys it, so why not her? She takes a bunch of pictures with it and in it to send to the Wise Ones. They never answered.

Egwene: Got there early to help Elayne set up, but ends up setting up by herself because Elayne is playing Marco Polo with Aviendha.

Nynaeve: Shows up shortly after Egwene and brought water and cupcakes. She helps Egwene until she gets sprayed by something in the back. Turns around and sees Mat with one of her cupcakes, whom she begins to chase with promises that he'll regret the first kiss his father gave to his mother when she catches him.

Mat: Shows up with so much beer. Like, so much. Also brought water guns. Nynaneve just needs to lighten up. It's water. Is in a speedo.

Moiraine: Shows up with Thom and ice cream sandwiches no one thanks her for. Siuan is there. She spends a lot of time in the deep end.

Siuan: Is so excited to see Moiraine is finally able to swim so well in the deep end. She came with Gareth Bryne, who can't swim at all. Goes to swim with Moiraine.

Thom: The self-appointed DJ. He does not take requests and asks Gareth to bring him drinks. Anyway, here's Wonderwall.

Perrin: Is so excited. Once he and Faile say hello to everyone, he jumps in the pool. He mostly stays in the shallow end because, you guessed it, he can only doggy paddle. Swimmies are too small for his blacksmith arms.

Faile: Is already mad at Perrin because he's spending too much time in the shallow end. Berelain is in the shallow end. She calms herself down and gets the volleyball net and ball she brought. She's finally going to show Berelain who's boss.

Berelain: Unbothered by the daggers that Faile is shooting her, because Galad is there, jumping off the diving board. She gets on a float and goes to the deep end to purposely knock herself off when Galad jumps to get his attention. "You make such big waves," she tells him.

Galad: Is so confused; he doesn't make waves when he dives. He perfected diving so long ago. Anyway, he enjoys what time he can before Morgase comes home. She never gave Elayne the okay to have this party, you know.

Rand: Enjoys himself more than he thought he would. Spends a good amount of time on a lounge chair under the umbrella. Gawyn made him a burger and Rand compliments him on how well he did it. Is confused as to why Gawyn throws the spatula down in a rage though.

Gawyn: Self-appointed grill master. That is, until al'Thor had to ruin it. He made that burger well-done on purpose because he thought al'Thor wouldn't like it like that, but he does anyway? Goes to assert his pool party dominance by doing a flip off the diving board. Belly flops.

Min: Amused that Gawyn belly flops. Figured that's what the red circle she saw over his head was about. Spends most of the time with Rand and Loial to read. Goes in the pool when the volleyball game starts.

Tuon: Went because Knotai is there, and she wanted to make sure he acted properly. The speedo was her idea. Waited five minutes after Egwene told her to go in the pool to actually go in, because it was her decision. Will not put her head under the water because she didn't want to get her hair wet. "She doesn't even have hair, is she crazy?" Elayne is heard asking.

Lan: He spent most of his time so far sitting at the edge of the pool, trying to tune everyone out. Decided that he couldn't anymore. It is time for the volleyball game.

Birgitte: Took so many pictures of Elayne for Elayne while she does all these poses on floats, at the edge of the pool, and on the pool deck. Sees Lan setting up the volleyball net and ditches Elayne to help him.

The game starts pretty friendly but then becomes incredibly competitive. It ends because Faile spikes the ball into Gawyn's face and leaves a red mark on him. "So that's what the red circle meant," Min is heard saying.

Loial: Takes notes during the whole game. What a crazy summer ritual these humans have.

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wot-tidbits · 4 months

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Thom and Moiraine by mycks_art

#wheel of time #moiraine damodred #thom merrilin #artwork #fanart

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moghedien · 3 months

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if Thom is gonna be showing up with the girlies in Tanchico in the show (and I believe its more or less confirmed that he is showing up somewhere next season based on his actor filming in various locations) I would like them to actually lean in a little bit to the possibility of Thom being Elayne's biological father

like I don't want it to necessarily be true or even like a 50/50 chance but like....I want Elayne to be like "wait what" when confronted with him again

#I don't think it would be true #Elayne's gotta have the Damodred Sapphic Gene after all #but I would really really really like them to make the viewers at least question the possibility of it #and to maybe add to some reasons as to why Thom almost definitely basically 100% certainly killed Taringail Damodred #like it would also honestly add some flavor just to make it like absolutely clear that to Andor it doesn't matter who her dad is #she's Morgase's daughter and that's literally all that matters #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot book spoilers #elayne trakand #thom merrilin

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markantonys · 8 months

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Wheel of Time S2 Countdown

Day 4: Favorite Quotes

#wots2week #wotedit #wot on prime #wot #the wheel of time #mat cauthon #rand al'thor #nynaeve al'meara #ila #moiraine damodred #thom merrilin #lan mandragoran #tam al'thor #perrin aybara #loial #mine #it was tough to narrow down! i settled on my top 5 serious and top 5 funny lines

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an-s-sedai · 1 year

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Consider

Instead of having Moiraine and Siuan grow out of their queerness and fall in love with men, wouldn’t it be way, way funnier if, after Thom rescues Moiraine and Gareth and Siuan mutually save one another, Thom and Gareth re-meet and fall in love with each other? They can be like “Light it sucks to be thrown out of Caemlyn by Morgase with an execution order on your coattails,” aaaand kiss.

#rafe judkins take notice #wheel of time #towers of midnight spoilers #moiraine damodred #siuan sanche #gareth bryne #thom merrilin #thom/gareth #queer women don’t grow out of being queer challenge #wot book spoilers

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shitpostingkats · 1 year

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How I picture Wheel of Time characters

Some headcanons of what the cast wears that I absolutely refuse to change because they are vital to my WoT reading experience.

Rand: Two Rivers merch

Additional clothing includes cargo shorts and sandals. He still wears the red and gold heron coat on top of this.

Perrin: Sleeveless chainmail

Specifically the stupid chainmail tank top worn by Percival in BBC's Merlin.

Mat: This earring

He used to wear a simple silver bar and hoop, but literally the second he was able to after being Healed in Tar Valon, he went out and purchased this bad boy.

Nynaeve: Box braids

Her braid is made of braids because fuck you.

Egwene: Tie on pockets

This might be the most reasonable one on the list. Idk I just think Egwene has a small treasure hoard. Girl will pull an entire loaf of bread out of her skirts apropos of nothing.

Elayne: #Aesthtic Bob

I think the books describe her as having long hair? But I literally cannot picture her without a short tiktok princesscore hairstyle.

Lan: Green screen cloak

Everyone still talks about his stealthy ability to ✨fade into the shadows✨.

Moiraine: Literally just show!Moiraine

Sorry book purists. If it helps, I have literally never seen a single episode of the show.

Min: The Gender™️ pirate shirt

I don't have to explain this one.

Thom Merrilin: Howard Pyle's Robin Hood but with TWO mustaches

I apologize for making this.

BONUS

The Amyrlin Seat:

#wheel of time #wot #rand al'thor #perrin aybara #matt cauthon #nynaeve al'meara #egwene al'vere #elayne trakand #moiraine damodred #lan al’mandragoran #thom merrilin #If anyone draws their headcanons of the cast wearing these I am kissing you firmly on the lips

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toastandjamie · 9 days

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Wot Characters and the Taylor Swift song I most associate with them and their favorite Era!(excluding Debut and Tortured Poets Department)

Rand: You’re on Your Own Kid, when asked he consistently says Speak Now

Mat: Cruel Summer, he insists he’s only really listened to Reputation-this is a lie- Midnights is his favorite album

Perrin: Paper Rings, the Lover Album is by and large his favorite- however Fearless is a close second- he just thinks the songs are pretty

Egwene: Wildest Dreams, she’s a Reputation girly first and foremost

Nynaeve: Treacherous, Folklore zero elaboration needed

Elayne: Mastermind, 1989 is her favorite album by far

Min: You Belong With Me, she’s a Red girly and was the one who got Mat to listen to Taylor’s entire discography

Avienda: Red, Avienda isn’t very familiar with all the eras but after Elayne showed her all the albums she picked Evermore

Faile: Stay Stay Stay, just like Egwene she’s a Reputation girly(secretly her favorite is Lover)

Tuon: You’re In Love, Tuon claims to not have any preference but catch her listening to Folklore on repeat

Morraine: The Lucky One, Evermore without a doubt

Siuan: Lavender Haze, she’s a fan of the classics and loves Fearless

Lan: I Know Places, his favorite album is folklore because it’s Nynaeve’s

Thom: Exile, he appreciates the storytelling of Folklore

Brynn: Epiphany, he does not know the names of the albums but he liked most of the songs on Red

Gawyn: Anti-Hero, he insists he doesn’t like Taylor Swift but the answer is 1989

Galad: Karma, without hesitation he says Midnights

Berelain: Slut!, this is a woman who listens to Red, A Lot

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apocalypticavolition · 4 months

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Let's (re)Read The Great Hunt! Chapter 26: Discord

Gather around everyone and I'll tell you a tale. It's a tale of my reactions to someone else telling me a different story in book form. Many book form, to be technical. And I already know the story, so my reactions will be very spoilery for all the books. Every book. If that's gonna be a problem, plug your ears or something I guess.

This chapter has a harp icon because it's Thom time! I'm as happy as Rand is to see him.

Rand, I may have been too hasty in leaving Stedding Shangtai the way I did. When I do go home, I may be in a great deal of trouble.

Not sure why you couldn't just lie about being a young Ogier from Saldaea or something, Loial. You all can't keep that close a set of tabs on each other. Or is the unbearded look a dead giveaway?

When they came pounding through the common room, Rand winked at the innkeeper, then laughed at his startled look. Let him think I’m off to play his bloody Great Game. Let him think what he wants. Thom’s alive.

What is it about needing to keep a low profile in inns that makes Rand so reckless? First Baerlon and his channeling sickness, now this when he doesn't even have that excuse.

The innkeeper was a woman with hair as white as Thom’s, and sharp eyes that studied Loial as well as Rand.

Innkeeper size, and therefore loyalty, uncertain.

The slender woman sitting cross-legged on the bed with her skirts tucked under her was keeping six colored balls spinning in a wheel between her hands.

Dena meanwhile has to be small so that Jordan can fit her into the fridge more easily.

“I have never heard of a woman gleeman,” Loial said.

And this frankly makes Dena's fridging all the more exhausting. Why are there no gleegals anyway? Surely there'd be a good source: women who go to the Tower to become Aes Sedai and then get put out again when it's clear they're not worthy but who don't want to go back home now that they've tasted the world. Especially since this world seems to be pretty low on sex work, you'd think that gals who don't have much else in the realm of prospects would pick up the job.

But also, it's infuriating that Dena is intro'd in this way and then killed off and then we never have any other woman who tries to take up the mantle later. One can hardly blame Thom for being in a hurry to pick up a lady apprentice given what happens to Dena and the events of the next few months, but by the time he ended up in Ebou Dar it should have been going again. It's a wasted opportunity.

They hang a scrap of painted canvas behind them, supposed to make the audience believe these fools are in Matuchin Hall, or the high passes of the Mountains of Dhoom. I make the listener see every banner, smell every battle, feel every emotion. I make them believe they are Gaidal Cain. Seaghan will have his hall torn down around his ears if he puts this lot on to follow me.

And here's another apparent revolution in the world's culture that doesn't seem to go anywhere. Theater exists; there's a play held in Andor much later, but apparently Gleemen will stay the preferred style for now. I suppose after the circus it's probably for the best we didn't pick up a subplot of players.

“She listens to a tale once—once only, mind!—and she has it right, not just the words, but every nuance, every rhythm. She has a fine hand on the harp, and she played the flute better the first time she picked it up than you ever did.”

Yes yes, we all know she's too pure for this sinful Earth.

She’ll be court-bard to a king or a queen before she’s done.

Okay but for real Thom, there's only so many monarchs in the world and I doubt many more nobles besides their immediate subordinates could afford court-bards so what are all the women in the world who aren't mind-bogglingly talented supposed to do in the performance arts? They can't all just give up their dreams and move on. Why are they absent?

“Your clumsy sheepherder’s fingers were never meant for the harp.”

There is something very sad in Rand not being meant for the sophisticated forms of art (and science) that he'd really rather be a part of than conquering.

There is even a lord in the city has what he claims is the Horn locked up inside his manor. He says it’s a treasure handed down in his House since the Breaking.

You know, I'm willing to believe that this lord really does have a 3,500 year old horn in his basement. Obviously not a magic one, but still. Stranger things have happened.

“Moiraine says it’s the Horn,” Rand said. Thom’s mirth was cut short.

Thom takes Moiraine as gospel even now.

“I don’t suppose you are talking about simply riding to Shienar and handing the Horn to—who?—the King? Why Shienar? The legends all tie the Horn to Illian.”

I suppose this must be one of those myths that grew in the telling. That or there was some confusion with a Foretelling and the sea that the Horn gets tossed into is off of Illian's coast.

“Thom,” he said at last, “are there any books that have The Karaethon Cycle in them?” Easier to call it that than the Prophecies of the Dragon. “In the great libraries,” Thom said slowly. “Any number of translations, and even in the Old Tongue, here and there.”

Thom of course has to answer slowly because Rand's question has given him a heart attack and he needs to take deep breaths. This might well be one of the more terrifying moments of Thom's life, having a young boy taken from his home on suspicion of channeling asking about the Prophecies while waving the sign of their imminent fulfillment around. Or at least this would be the case if Thom was taking it at all seriously (he's not, not yet).

For a moment, Rand could only gape at him, and when he could speak, his voice was unsteady. “The sword makes five. Hilt, scabbard, and blade.” He turned his hand down on the table, hiding the brand on his palm. For the first time since Selene’s salve had done its work, he could feel it. Not hurting, but he knew it was there.

Moiraine of course thought she was fulfilling prophecy but as Rand points out the coat counts for nothing, though funnily enough the sword and the coat are echoes of the later, true markings: the sword setting Rand on his path away from home and the coat being Moiraine naming him among the candidates as the real deal.

Thom's got to be happy Rand's denying it though.

I suspect Aes Sedai would want to make events fit the Prophecies as closely as they can. Dying somewhere in the Blasted Lands would be a high price to pay for going along with them.

Thom's a very kind mentor for actually telling Rand straight out what the price of being the Dragon is and suggesting that if he's just doing it for the Aes Sedai that it's time to do something.

“Then why ask about the Prophecies? Why send the Ogier out of the room?”

One of the problems of being an expert player of the Great Game is that when a novice shows up and starts blundering around, you're going to mistake his idiotic moves for strategic ones. Thom correctly identifies Rand's got an ulterior motive for his behavior and skips right past the obvious, simple, and true answer in favor of a conspiracy theory.

“I’ve learned a few things since we parted, Thom. They will come for whoever blows the Horn, even a Darkfriend.”

I'm not sure you've learned that at all Rand, and I suppose we should have taken Thom not knowing that detail as warning enough that it wasn't true.

“Owyn held it off almost three years. He never hurt anyone. He didn’t use the Power unless he had to, and then only to help his village. He. . . .” Thom threw up his hands.

The taint on saidin was an absolutely masterful counterstroke if you think about it. The perfect way for the divisive paranoia of the Shadow to worm its way into the minds of Light aligned individuals. Thom knows that Owyn was a danger to society but he still tries to make excuses out of love.

If Moiraine’s let you go, then you are well out of it.

While Rand outplays Thom through naivety, Moiraine outflanks him legitimately.

“A clean break is best, boy. If you’re always coming around, even if you never mention it, I won’t be able to get the Horn out of my head. And I won’t be tangled in it. I won’t.”

A cruel move by Thom, but one can hardly blame an old man for trying to refuse the call. One can blame the Wheel for how refusing the call plays out for him though.

Ruefully, he realized he was considering whether to tell Zera the truth or let her continue thinking as she did. All it takes is to think about the Great Game, and I start playing it.

Politics as a whole are a rather infectious way of corrupting the Light too, and the fools do it to themselves. It's no wonder part of Rand's coming is resetting the whole damn board on the players.

Coat or no coat, Rand was still only a shepherd. If he had been more, if he had been what Thom once suspected—a man who could channel—neither Moiraine nor any other Aes Sedai would ever have let him walk away ungentled.

Frankly, I think Thom's very much hiding in denial here like Rand does. He has to know that the facts don't add up in any way that's good but he pretends he can send Rand away and not have to worry about it.

Ah well. We have to part ways here too. See you next chapter!

#let's read #wheel of time #wot #robert jordan #wheel of time spoilers #wot spoilers #rand al'thor #cuale #loial #hurin #zera #dena #thom merrilin

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