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fromtheseventhhell · 10 months

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IDK if it's exactly what you wanted but your recent post about Mirri came "in time" for what I've seen.

Here are some screeshots of tags from this post

To me it seems like they try to critique the writing but as always, tend to blame the character. Plus, they sprinkle some lies (that Dany forced Mirri to save Drogo, that she refuses to engage with history), they project onto GRRM (that he wants to critique violent intervetionism with her), they ignore his statement about the "white saviour" accusations (which fair, you may not find them satisfying but still, take his intentions into account), they take away acountability of what the slavers did (bc THEY turned Slaver's Bay into a "hole of death" and was that long before Dany arrived) and not saying why "she allowed slavery to continue", which is a convenient way to frame her as immoral because after the masters of Yunkai attacked Astapor, and because "gently born" people, anticipating the struggle in Meereen, ask her to let them sell themselves back into slavery :

"My queen?" Daario stepped forward. "The riverside is full of Meereenese, begging leave to be allowed to sell themselves to this Qartheen. They are thicker than the flies."

Dany was shocked. "They want to be slaves?"

"The ones who come are well spoken and gently born, sweet queen. Such slaves are prized. In the Free Cities they will be tutors, scribes, bed slaves, even healers and priests. They will sleep in soft beds, eat rich foods, and dwell in manses. Here they have lost all, and live in fear and squalor."

"I see." Perhaps it was not so shocking, if these tales of Astapor were true. Dany thought a moment. "Any man who wishes to sell himself into slavery may do so. Or woman." She raised a hand. "But they may not sell their children, nor a man his wife." (ASOS, Daenerys VI)

I mean, she does this because she wants to respect their choice and she makes sure no one is forced to be enslaved. I don't think she should have allowed it but I understand why. It was not out of mallice. (here is a meta about how she is not a slaver X , X )

Plus the tendency to blame Daenerys fans for pointing out how the situation with Mirri was grey, that Mirri indeed killed Rhaego, but they can defend Mirri and acuse us, Dany stans, of being racists and whatnot.

Ironically my post was about conversations on Twitter (I know) where people were demonizing Dany and I found out this post was actually what started it all, so my post was unintentionally a response to this one. I'm gonna talk a little bit about this conversation and the overall conversations about racism in this fandom but I don't mean it as a direct reply to OP's post. The only thing I have to say specific to their post is that it does stand out to me that they acknowledge the issue with Mirri's writing, which is that it's part of a trend with how characters of color are written, but they fail to actually talk about said characters. Their main point isn't even about how Mirri is handled, it's on the subject of Dany's whiteness.

The thing about discussing racism in asoiaf is that it's a more complex and nuanced conversation than a majority of people are willing to have. Often times it just gets devolved into justifications for disliking a specific character and this was the same attitude people had towards the show. If there's racism in the writing, then that's a factor that affects how the entire series is written, it doesn't just reflect poorly on a single character. People definitely act like that's the case though.

On the subject of Mirri and her treatment, it's rare that people discuss her character without using her as a means of bashing Dany. The screenshots you provided highlight this. We're supposed to believe that Mirri's actions towards Dany are justified and that Dany's actions towards Mirri are racist solely on the basis that Mirri is a WOC, but it's not that simple (Also note that it's always "Mirri was right to do what she did" but they never talk about what specifically she did, which was force the abortion of a 14-year-old bridal slave. Somehow saying exactly what happened doesn't make her as sympathetic). What makes the writing racist isn't the situation itself, it's the idea of characters of color being disposable in service of white characters' arcs. But this situation is often talked about as an isolated event, in a vacuum. The logic applied just doesn't work. If race is such an important factor, why was Mirri right to kill a child of color over a prophecy she was ultimately wrong about? There are plenty of racist connotations in the "brute" narrative surrounding POC, specifically men of color, but people eagerly justify his death because of the hypothetical harm he could've caused. They also completely ignore that the prophecy wasn't about him, so the justification is that a child of color can be murdered if people assume they'll cause harm. There were also the others in Drogo's Khalasar that Dany couldn't help because of her situation. Eroeh suffered a horrible fate before her ultimate death, but Dany would've conceivably been able to help her if she hadn't been incapacitated. So does the fact that Mirri's actions harmed other POC, and not just a white woman, factor in at all? Or are we not supposed to care about them because they are, however positively, associated with Dany?

That also leads to the question of what exactly would be the right way of handling this situation. Dany's whiteness is the biggest criticism but her being a woc would come with its own racist connotations. Dany's life of poverty and being sold as a slave would've had other implications when contrasted to the other primarily white, high-born female characters. So what would've been a better way of handling the Dothraki and other people of color in this series? Whether Dany is white or not, the problem isn't solved. Somehow that's never a conversation being had, despite the number of people who supposedly care so much. It also seems as though Dany's suffering, and only Dany's suffering, is considered justifiable through her whiteness. If Dany had been the one to die instead, it still would've been a child bridal slave being killed. How is that the "better" option for people supposedly concerned with racism and misogyny? With almost any other female character their suffering is never justified regardless of who is causing it.

There is just...a different set of standards people have for Dany than they have for any other character. Someone brought up the point that Robb's part in the war caused incredible violence to the smallfolk, yet he is considered one of the noblest characters in the series. We see firsthand the devastation the Northerners are responsible for through Arya's POV, and many women and children specifically are harmed. We hear about countless women being raped and killed from the fallout of Robb's actions but somehow that's not Robb's responsibility. On top of that, there are plenty of smallfolk who have actively anti-North mindsets. Robb, who isn't trying to bring about systemic change or actively focused on fighting for the smallfolk, isn't responsible for the damage he causes them. Dany, who is trying to overthrow a violent system built on subjugating people, is the most evil character in the series because she interacts with characters of color more than anyone else. But then...people seem uninterested in discussing privileges and harm caused when it isn't related to bashing Dany. It's damn near taboo to refer to certain characters as classist, even when that's how they're written.

If you want to discuss racism in the series and fandom though, let's do it! Let's talk about the depiction of the Dothraki vs. The (white) Wildings and the difference in nuance and empathy they get, let's talk about how the current generation of Starks benefit from colonization and the eradication of the children of the forest (who are very much indigenous-coded) and how that's not framed as a bad thing, let's talk about women of color who are already being enslaved before Dany was sold to the Dothraki, let's talk about Alayaya + the senseless violence she faces and how her pain is used to give Tyrion angst, let's talk about the various background women of color portrayed as sex workers and how that could play into the jezebel trope, let's talk about lack of prominent characters of color outside of Dany's pov, let's talk about how D&D wrote a former Black slave dying in chains, how they portrayed the slaves exclusively as people of color despite slavery not being based on race in the books, let's talk about how they played into the Dothraki's racist writing and portrayed Dany's people as "scary foreign invaders" that the North looked down on, let's talk about how everyone justified the Northerners (and Sansa specifically) being scared even though Dany came to help, let's talk about how people in the fandom were laughing at Missandei's death and saying she deserved to die for being "rude" to a white woman, let's talk about fandom's habit of portraying Jon and Arya (considered the uglier, feral starks) as dark-skinned in comparison to their "white" siblings, let's talk about how the hotd writers made characters Black and then diminished their roles and importance, let's talk about how routinely characters of color are ignored and turned into props by fandom, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT! But no, the only capacity people are interested in talking about racism is when they can use it to bash Dany.

TL;DR/summation: There's nothing wrong with having good-faith conversations about racism in the series or disliking a character because of it. The issue is that that's rarely what happens. Instead of having constructive conversations about race, the pain of characters of color gets turned into props and given no nuance outside of that.

#ask #mikastormborn #fandom nonsense #pro daenerys targaryen #daenerys targaryen #this got very long but who cares lol #I'm just so tired of the fake activism in fandom and the double-standards #either talk about racism or don't #using poc as props against a white women is the very racism you're claiming to care but I guess it's fine if Dany antis do it #mind you there's a real racist white woman that part of this fandom worships but I'm supposed to clutch pearls over Dany #considered not tagging her but honestly want to minimize the chance that certain crowds see this

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musclesandhammering · 1 year

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The #GirlBoss movement in the MCU is extremely pseudo-feminist.

I could be totally off-base with this, but has anybody else noticed that here lately the mcu has had a slight pattern of making a few female characters ridiculously overpowered as well as turbo-hyped by the narrative and marketing…

This specifically includes Wanda, Carol Danvers, and Sylvie.

I’m in particular talking about how all 3 of them had far less time for character exploration and strength build-up than the majority of the other more powerful heroes, had fairly bland and uncreative personalities compared to the other more powerful heroes (Wanda was coddled by the narrative and not allowed to have any ownership in her wrongdoings which would’ve made her more complex, Carol was a victim of the “having the same arrogant attitude as the douchebro male characters is all it takes to make a Strong Female Character(TM)” writers’ mentality, and Sylvie with mary sue-ed to hell), and were generally made more about the cool powers and ‘oooh such a badass’ moments and the aesthetic than the actual depth.

My point is… they’re all so shallow and performative. It’s like the (mostly male) writers looked at the female character and scoffed and said “ok there’s no way this lady’s gonna become a fan fave on her own- we have to help her. We have to give her a boost. I have zero faith in women being able to gain popularity by their own merit (because who’d be interested in a woman, ammiright?), so we can’t just give her a compelling backstory and let that be it. We have to make sure she has the most tragic backstory of anyone on screen at any given time, and we have to make sure the audience knows it! We can’t just give her a specific set of powers and depict them in an interesting and unique way. We have to make her stronger than any other character she’s going to share screen time with and we have to have her flaunt her powers every ten minutes to remind the audience how strong she is! We can’t just make her intelligent in her own way and give her witty banter with the male characters. We have to make sure she makes them look like idiots and condescends them as frequently as possible so the audience knows it! We can’t just flesh out her morals and let her get things wrong sometimes. We have to make it so she’s always in the right and the audience should always be on her side! And even when she does something wrong, we have to make sure the audience knows that it wasn’t really her fault and she still has the moral high ground! That’s the only way we’ll ever get people to like her as much as the main male characters!!”

It’s just…. This is just rank with a lack of confidence in women. They approach the idea of having women front and center with equal parts skepticism and greed. They’re so out of touch with what women want in superhero films and just what women want in general. They fall into the trap of thinking feminists want everyone to know that girls are actually superior to guys, when in reality we just want to be treated with the respect and humanity and agency guys have always been treated with.

And by creating these female characters the way they do (making sure they’re not equal but decidedly better than the male ones, making sure they’re nearly infallible strength-wise, making sure they’re never allowed to be held accountable for mistakes) they literally defeat that whole point. They’re being extremely counterproductive to what feminists are actually trying to do, because they aren’t actually interested giving women genuinely good representation- they’re just interested in pandering to Twitter stans and casual female fans who form their opinions based on a first glance and girls who are so starved for rep that they’ll praise movie-makers for serving up rank crumbs.

They give us female representation but not really, just like they give us queer representation but not really, and like they give us poc representation but oftentimes not really…. Because (surprise surprise) the multi-billion dollar corporation does not actually give a shit about minority issues.

#this should not come as a shock to anyone #but unfortunately #I know a good many people who would be shocked to chagrin #young women and young lgbt folks and young poc stop idolising anything that gives you a crumb challenge #Omg Marvel Gave Us All These Badass Women!!!#babe most of those women are cardboard cutouts #Omg Marvel Gave Us A Confirmed Queer Character!!!#babe that was one vague sentence and then they did their best to retcon it by putting him in a heteronormative relationship with himself #Omg Marvel Gave Us These Cool POC Characters #babe most of them are side characters who get 3 lines tops 2 of which are used to build up the white characters #I’m just…. so tired #people are so shallow #negativity #marvel negativity #fake feminism #pseudo feminism #anti wanda maximoff #anti Captain marvel #anti sylvie #anti marvel #marvel meta #marvel discourse #argue with a wall #might do a longer post on this later idk

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rotzaprachim · 8 months

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aaaand the unfolllowing spree continues

#Terrible time to be a leftist Jew btw terrible time #I like. Only want to talk to other Jews rn and I’m trying to register how fucked that is and just a symptom of cyclical systemic violence #The big picture thing is like. Are you saying that rape is a justified liberation tactic if the women are Jewish?#And if the answer is yes or you’ve reblogged someone for whom the answer is yes #Tw rape #Honestly people who left Jews no space to mourn after. The attach regardless of our political feelings and just went yay colonizer deaths #Everyone feeling soemthing right now is a hashtag fake fake anti colonialist #That’s another one. Like now we know and now we know

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butchgtow · 2 months

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how are you shameless enough to claim to be a radical feminist while believing that in non-sexual contexts, coerced decisions should be treated as freely made choices, particularly in analytics?

"financial coercion? whatever, she made her choice. violent coercion? whatever, it was her choice.

"it was all her choice. the intentional limitations placed by either an individual, a set of individuals, or the system oppressing her have no place in consideration."

you aren't a feminist -- especially not a radical feminist. you refute fundamental feminist philosophy of coercion as nonconsent (with rape as the only exception). you deny materialism.

you're directly encouraging the sex data gap and its intended, ever-successful outcome of women's global economic exploitability with your statements in this very moment.

anyway book recommendation because this user is a reactionary contrarian who loudly and proudly refuses to read it: Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez.

#fake radfems #but sure -- I'm ''a TRA and encouraging women to transition'' for saying that more detransitioners' data should be included -- not just #non-desisted (intending future if not current) retransitioners and those who detransitioned by choice #I started a conversation with this user and then realized she literally thinks that coercion is consent if the context isn't sex #and is anti-considering systems of oppression #being anti-gender doesn't inherently mean you're a radfem #radical feminism isn't just ''anti-gender feminism'''

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animentality · 1 year

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This guy is making ai women and acting like...uh...real women...are... "over."

Right. Right.

I also want to point how fucking racist and demeaning this shit is.

Why don't you rot in hell, you sweaty incel ass loser.

Also women are not seething over this, lol.

Hentai and erotic art has existed since the beginning of human time.

#twitter #ai art #anti ai art #go fuck yourself tumblr im tagging it #im labeling it you little bitch even tho these are fucking fake ass women that barely look real #this should have a fucking body horror tag is what it needs

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confier-boyfriend · 5 months

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People are just really gross about their exes. Actually no I don’t think you getting vindication for an ended relationship is a good idea, you’re being an asshole. Just because you’re hurt, doesn’t give you the clear to hurt others.

#not to mention the whole fucking ‘ew men’ shit going on too #and we can already see it turning into transandrophobia #into anti masculinity #like it stops being feminism and venting. and starts being radical feminism and genuine hatred #women and men are more simmiliar than we are different and the sooner you realize the idea we’re not and gender is fake the happier you’ll #be with yourself #people just took straight cis man and ran with it. in the worst way possible #‘this is all your fragile masculinity’ or y’know they’re just guys existing and don’t make decisions on male products #you don’t choose for razors marketed towards you to be bright pink #but they are #and that’s a cultural issue. not a personal one

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scribblinaway · 6 months

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wow ok i am now squarely in the target demographic for Chatelaine Magazine but their content is so great i'm not even mad about it, is this what it feels like to know middle age is fast encroaching?

#a very specific experience for a canadian in her thirties perhaps #chatelaine is mostly a magazine about cooking and homes and stuff #but it has always had a minorly subversive edge #in the 50s they were publishing articles like 'women: stop faking orgasms! it is bad for you and your husband!'#which is not a take you expect from a 1950s women's magazine #here in the 2020s they are one of the few mainstream media sources i've seen that has published anti-0zemp!c pieces #so you know #like i said #i am not mad #their reviews about like the best frozen pizza or the best jarred marinara sauce are RIGHT #their recipes are GOOD #their advice about whether you should install a heat pump is HELPFUL #and their opinions on women's issues are generally REASONABLE #but i do also feel slightly old

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coochiequeens · 19 days

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If someone wants a baby so badly they are willing to commit fraudulent acts that could follow the kid for life, they shouldn't have a kid in the first place.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-05-06/chinas-health-body-probes-hospital-after-surrogacy-claims

HONG KONG (Reuters) - China's National Health Commission said it was investigating a hospital in the southwest megacity of Chongqing for its alleged involvement in surrogacy, which is illegal in China, after wide circulation of the issue on social media.

The incident comes after a series of official investigations last year related to the issuance of fake birth certificates at a time when China is trying to boost its birth rate.

Chongqing Angel Obstetrics and Gynaecology Hospital has been cooperating with illegal surrogacy agencies, a post on Chinese social media platform Weibo said on Sunday.

Surrogate mothers would use forged ID cards to give birth in the hospital and forged birth certificates would be made after the babies were born, according to the post, made by a user called Shangguan Zhengyi, who describes himself as a volunteer fighting child trafficking.

A team had been set up to investigate and verify the situation, the local Chongqing health committee said in a statement on its website on Sunday in response to the post.

"Once verified, it (the hospital) will be dealt with seriously in accordance with laws and regulations."

Chongqing Angel Obstetrics and Gynaecology Hospital did not immediately respond to a faxed request for comment.

The Weibo post on the hospital was one of the top trending items on Monday, drawing hundreds of comments.

"This industry always seems to have existed," said one comment by a user called Wensheng. Another user called XJ said: "This is an industrial chain, not something that can be accomplished by one person."

China said last year it would "severely crack down" on illegal activities related to the use of assisted reproductive technologies such as the buying or selling of sperm or eggs and surrogacy.

It suspended a hospital and judicial institute in Wuhan in November after they were accused of surrogacy and issuing fake paternity results.

Birth certificates are required in China for obtaining household registration and are necessary for vaccinations, medical insurance enrolment and application for a social security card.

(Reporting by Farah Master and the Beijing newsroom; editing by Lincoln Feast.)

#China #Anti surrogacy #Babies are not commodities #Surrogacy exploits women #Surrogacy fraud #Fake birth certificates #Chongqing Angel Obstetrics and Gynaecology Hospital #Fake paternity results

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moesartblog · 2 months

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Ok tumblr I’m now begging

BEGGING

That you start treating these “ridiculous drama” scenarios that get boiled down to one sentence the same way you’ve helped people treat “frivolous” lawsuits against major corporations

Because it’s been several times now I’ve seen shit like “chili lady cancelled for sharing food?! The worlds gone mad!!” Without actually knowing the real conversation that was happening about that incident.

Same thing with the DoorDash shit recently

And let me tell you the vast majority of these situations involve disabled people sharing their thoughts and feelings on a topic, and so-called progressives going “you’re fucking re- I mean uh ridiculous! Who would think like this!? Entitled lazy fucks!”

#I cannot stand seeing the chili neighbor thing in here when I saw first hand what went down with my own two eyes #like not even to mention she had a long history of being anti Black and harassing Black trans women for calling out racism in the white #trans community #which I witnessed #but the thing about the chili?#she was being nosy snooping around in her neighbors trash and decided because they get take out that they weren’t doing well #so instead of going to them first and getting to know them she just decided to make a random meal for them #which doesn’t make you the devil or anything #but plenty of disabled people kept pointing out that hey you should ask before you bring someone food for multiple reasons #like food sensitivity issues or smell or allergies #once again pointing out the importance of just talking to the people first #and frankly all of this could have been avoided if she didn’t feel the need to post about it to virtue signal to her clique #like it’s clear she was doing this to feel like a savior not to actually help people #it’s all the fake ally shit #you don’t ask someone what they need you just assume you know what they need #like please be fucking honest #and don’t even get me started on the DoorDash shit #and how much ableism has come out of that

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antianakin · 2 years

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I don't like Anakin unless it's the AU Anakin I made up in my head who is almost completely different from canon Anakin because I changed enough of the Jedi's history and his own history that he may as well be a different character.

#anti anakin #anti anakin skywalker #i literally gave him and obi-wan a dyad that came into being the moment anakin was born #so he's had exposure to obi-wan for longer than he can remember #obi-wan literally living in his head #from infancy #he left tatooine at like 4 years old #also i had the jedi basically kicked out of the republic like 150 years earlier #so no influence from palpatine and he doesn't meet padme until he's fully an adult #this also leaves qui-gon and obi-wan free to help free shmi before anakin leaves tatooine #i just said: 'i'm gonna remove every temptation anakin's ever had and only THEN toss him into a warzone and a bad relationship'#it went really well #i'm quite fond of that au's anakin #he's occasionally an idiot but he's also v much a real good person #not a fake good person #he has never believed in fascism #he doesn't take advantage of women #he's not attached to people #he's not space racist #he is bi and in love with ferus olin instead of hating him for no good reason #i just removed all of the aspects of anakin's character that make him a villain lol #and those are all of anakin's aspects #so he may as well be a totally new character #i may as well have made an oc and just slapped anakin's name on him

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agentrouka-blog · 2 years

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It's frustrating when fans believe that Sansa had flaws and she still had to learn to grow up while her siblings can never be wrong. Most of time they had issues with Sansa romanticising and denial. They forget that Ary@ still had black and white views of world, Jon think that NW is good place, Dany thought KL is prosperous and had similar romantic notions once Sansa held. But only Sansa is condemn for not being pragmatic and compare her with her siblings.

I think the sister relationship is worked with the same POV trap technique as Dany's villain arc. (Note, I did not say "Arya's villain arc", for those who don't like to read closely.)

It's easy to get caught up in Arya's emotions in her POV, and since Sansa's follows later, the reader is subtly primed to read everything with a pre-existing bias. That alone already obfuscates details and causality and power dynamics. Sansa's POV appears more flawed, meaner and less credible already, because Arya's perspective slots her into a box before she has a voice. Details that shine a negative light on Arya, or explain Sansa's actions, slip under the radar, unmentioned, the same way GRRM refuses to point out the hypocrisis and warning signs in Dany's arc.

GRRM is subtly prompting the reader to side with Arya - but there is no substance to it. When you (re)read and pay attention, Sansa isn't actually doing anything significantly wrong. And Arya is a lot less sweet than her first impression suggests.

That's the part that most readers miss. They catch on to the manipulation regarding Sansa, but not the one involving Arya.

She is as manipulative, as selective in her sympathy, as egocentric and as judgmental as any other kid, certainly as much as Sansa. The author just frames it differently, in a context that is superficially more appealing.

Arya fake-apologizing twice to appeal to her supportive father is seen as sincere (it's NOT when you compare it with her actual sincere apologies, and how she acts afterwards), while Sansa's justified anger after the Trident is seen as unprovoked. That sort of thing. Sansa's verbal exaggerations are seen as unjustified histrionics and indications of a weak character, while Arya's penchant for transferring her anger at the septa onto Sansa, or her violence, are essentially ignored. Arya's aspirations appear sympathetic, while Sansa's appear as banal, or worse, signals of a traitorous character.

Ned's blatant favoritism doesn't even register for many. Sansa's behavior is seen as intrinsic, not as a reaction to those around her or an expression of trauma, because she doesn't reflect on that trauma as much as Arya - and there is no other character who bothers to do it, either. (THINK about that.) While Arya's trauma is center stage.

Both are as bad as each other. In every respect.

And both are as good as each other.

There is no reason for GRRM to use the obfuscation and POV trap technique it that way unless he means to make a point, to subvert the initial impression entirely. He's daring the reader to buy into a fake conflict, to look at the problem as something between them, as opposed to something around them. (Hint: it's the patriarchy.)

Sansa isn't "more wrong" and Arya isn't "more right". They are different, but equally worthy from the start. Their conflict is not with each other.

When they see each other again and confront their conflict, it's going to be on equal terms, not a confirmation of fault, and they will finally team up and confront the real issues (and enemies) together. No more divide and conquer.

#whoops this turned into a long one #sansa stark #arya stark #stark sisters #anti daenerys targaryen #just to be safe #pov trap #patriarchy #fake conflict #women in asoiaf

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