#anti discourse
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"I think people shouldn't be allowed to depict illegal topics in fanfics or art! It encourages this behavior!"
You know who you sound like?
Tell me I'm wrong. I'll wait forever bc I'm not
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Antis: we are good!!
Also them:
#proship#profic#comship#proshipping#proshipper#antis are stupid#comship safe#anti anti#proship discourse#comshipper#antis dni#anti discourse#anti harrassment#antis are a cult#antis are hypocrites#antisdni#pro fiction
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Sometimes I really feel like some fandoms would benefit from doing a fandom swap every once in a while
Like,,, why do we have discourse about whether or not a character acted in an upsetting way and you decided to go "well, you see, the point you made about it not being the main writer's work is nice, but it's still the character's action's" like NO!!! It's a character!!! They are controlled by the writer!!!
If you were in a comic fandom, this would be the end of the argument more or less,,,, "This character is acting so wrong" "A different author wrote this media" "Oh, that's why, okay" and done
but yet they keep going in circles without understanding that a character is not in control or real
SAME WITH CANON PURISTS!
"This isn't like this in the source material" "In doctor who, The Doctor has been on the Titanic 3 seperate times" "Oh okay"
PLEASE!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! LOOK AT DIFFERENT FANDOMS AND SEE HOW THEY ARE HANDLING YOUR MELTDOWNS
One fandom's discourse is another fandom's tuesday
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Eepyqueer / TiredQueer
Eepyqueer, a person who does not wish to participate in discourse. They do have their own stance but they wish not to participate or be around heavily discourse topics. And it just gets to a point where they get tired of it. (Term is not a gender)
Some things eepyqueer is
Anti Syscourse
Anti Alterhuman Discorse
Anti LGBT+ Discourse
Pro LGBT+/MOGAI, Systems, and Alterhuman
Things eepyqueer isn’t
Pro Radqueer
Pro Transid/TransX/Trans+
Pro Proshipper/Comshipper/AntiAnti/etc.
Pro Maps/Zoos/Necos (and any other harmful paras)
Anti Xenogenders and Neopronouns
[ID: None yet]
[Tagging] @radiomogai, @accessmogai, and @the-yanderess
#📝 : post#🧡 : original terms#🌺 : other terms#📯 : personal terms#Eepyqueer#tiredqueer#queer#Mogai#Mogai term#Mogai coining#mogai safe#Liom#Liom term#Liom coining#anti discourse#anti lgbt discourse#anti Alterhuman discourse#blank queer#blankqueer#eyestrain
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this might come as a surprise to some people ... but the question is not are you "pro-ship", "ship neutral", or "anti-ship" ...
the real question is do you support artistic freedom or do you reject it in favor of compliance to the standards of mob mentality?
#anti censorship#anti callout culture#anti cancel culture#proship discourse#anti discourse#also 'ship neutral' doesn't make sense lmao#like if you're genuinely calling yourself this you've completely missed the starting point of this whole moral argument.#ambers.txt
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"Proship this anti--ship that get a job"
Pro-shippers/people who are tired of antis making fandoms messy that have jobs:
#sigh#pro ship#pro shipping#anti discourse#not horror#HR speaks#some of us come to tumblr to unwind after work#and we don't like dumb discourse made by antis so that's why we talk about it online#it's not deep#don't just assume things about strangers you don't know
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if you don't support aromantic people as queer i'll literally eat your guts
#DISCOURSE SUCKS ASS PLEASE STOP#can't yall just accept eachother#yes a cishet aromantic man is still queer#aromantic#arospec#anti discourse
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I once saw a self-proclaimed anti argue that the content that they didn't like was akin to someone handing out matches to everyone, and then wondering why there were a bunch of fires everywhere.
I remember that one time I found a lighter at the bus stop. I wiped it down with hand sanitizer and took it home to light my candles with.
If someone finds a lighter at the bus stop and uses it to burn someone's house down, they were probably deeply troubled to begin with. Finding a lighter doesn't make someone into an arsonist. The blame for that act would not lie with the person who left their lighter at a bus stop.
We all have a responsibility to behave morally and reasonably. We live in a world with lots of lighters, and matches, and pocket-knives, and countless and unfathomable ways to hurt other people that go beyond the physical. If you choose to harm another person, that is morally wrong.
Anyway, it's a bad metaphor. Do better.
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If someone says that they are neutral on ship discourse, this does not mean that they secretly agree with the side you oppose.
If someone says they don't feel like they have enough information to have a solid opinion on ship discourse, this does not mean that they secretly agree with the side you oppose.
If someone says they are uncomfortable with ship discourse, this does not mean that they secretly agree with the side you oppose.
Discourse is draining. It can be stressful or downright triggering to engage with. Someone choosing not to engage with discourse is not a moral failing, and it does not mean that they don’t care.
#peacefic#ship discourse#fiction discourse#proship#antiship#ship neutral#neuship#neufic#anti discourse#proship discourse#discourse
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The ‘American Feelings Yakuza’ article reminded me of something that’s been brewing in my head for a couple years about Japanese media and the rise of antis. Like, there's always been inflammatory bad faith criticism of characters and ships due to ship wars, but I think antis in the modern sense started to really gel when we started getting really obviously anime-inspired American cartoons by creators who actually grew up on anime and the fandoms that emerged around them (See Avatar, Korra, Steven Universe, and Voltron: Legendary Defender).
Like, it’s not wrong to like those shows, but I do think they tended to be especially efficient spawning vats for modern anti rhetoric and behavior for some reason, and I think the way the Japanese cartoon aesthetics were removed from their original context (Japanese culture, especially their post-war period) and sanitized for the consumption of American viewers that lent itself to batshit, self-entitled fandoms who spread their attitudes like a mind-virus.
#like americans struggle with the more indulgent aspects (fanservice) AND the more hard-hitting confronting portrayal of violence and trauma#imo voltron is an especially egregious case because it's a reboot of an already heavily altered and Americanized dub#but then look at disney. maybe appropriating and sanitizing art from other culture's is kinda american animation's original sin#decline of people actually travelling to japan doesn't help (plus covid)#antis#anti discourse#proship#proship discourse#shipping#fandoms#fandom discourse#geek culture#nerd culture#animation#cartoons#anime#weebs#weeb culture#manga
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Statements that are true
All fiction is allegorical, and is often used to teach life lessons and impart morals on younger audiences.
Children's media usually covers moral themes. "Stealing is wrong" "Kindness is important" etc.
In order to do this, Children's media typically has very simple black-and-white morality, that don't break the bonds of what would be acceptable in real life. If the main character of a kid's show does something, that something is usually a good and correct thing to do. This is because children are young and impressionable, and need these concepts spelled out for them.
The theme is not the "moral of the story."
The theme is the philosophical concept the story revolves around. Themes can be vague, messy, and complicated. A story can have multiple related themes. A long or complex story will have sub-themes and secondary themes.
Adult media almost never has a "moral of the story."
Adults are not children, and should not be impressionable. They should not need concepts spelled out for them. Adults are supposed to have their own internal sense of right and wrong, and their own opinions on morality. Adults can read stories that deal with dark topics and amoral characters without believing that these things are okay in real life.
If you are incapable of doing this, that's a You problem, and you are responsible for limiting your own media consumption and improving your skills with discernment. If you really can't distinguish fiction from reality, consider seeing a therapist, since there may be a deeper psychological issue there.
Fiction is often used as an escape, or a source of catharsis and wish-fulfillment. People read stories that distract them, or give them something they feel they lack.
All fiction is allegorical. The things in fiction that grant catharsis and wish-fulfillment are very rarely things that people actually want or approve of in real life. The purpose of fiction is that it is fictional, and fake, and not real.
All fiction is allegorical. Often, to emphasize the allegory and enhance the themes, stories will use symbolism and metaphor.
American public schools objectively suck at teaching how to spot symbolism and metaphor, or how to decipher what they represent.
Symbolism is not multiple choice, and it is not universal. Good writers do not pick from a list of symbols to slap onto their stories. Symbolism gets it's meaning from concepts within the story, not from assumptions about what concepts the audience will hold. The color blue only symbolizes sadness if the story has established that the color blue symbolizes sadness.
Symbolism is used for two reasons -- to foreshadow or to elaborate. If a story outright tells the audience about something, then that something does not need symbolism. If the character is visibly crying on screen, "the curtains are blue" is not symbolism. They're just blue. However, if the character is smiling, and the story has established that the color blue symbolizes sadness, then "the curtains are blue" might be symbolism that the character is only pretending to not be sad. Think of symbols as speaking in code.
Children often struggle to understand symbolism. The symbols in children's media is simple, and obvious.
Adults are supposed to be able to recognize, understand, and decipher symbolism. If you cannot do this, that's a You problem, and you are responsible for your own inability to understand the media you consume. You should take the time to study symbolism, learn what your teachers failed to teach you, and stop making bad-faith assumptions about every story you watch or read or listen to.
Sometimes being upset by fiction is the point. Sometimes being uncomfortable and confused is the point. Sometimes reading a book that gives you bad feelings and ruins your mood is a good thing. You cannot grow as a person while staying in your safe little bubble. The entire reason some stories deal with such uncomfortable topics is to give the audience a safe way to experience and explore those concepts. Your discomfort tells you important things about yourself. Listen to the lessons your body is telling you.
If a story making you sad or upset or uncomfortable feels like a personal attack, that is a You problem, and you are responsible for either admitting you aren't mature enough to read or watch adult content or, if you are old enough, preferably admitting that your hurt feelings are part of the problem, and taking steps to make peace with your own discomfort.
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The anonymous anti-porn-warriors put everything they had on the line to STOP us. While the “Grown-Ups” at Dworkin-MacKinnon Headquarters barely acknowledged us by name— their acolytes came at us with knives, baseball bats, legal threats, fake buckets of blood, in bars, on the street, at literary conferences. They talked to each other in code. On Our Backs supporters were considered the gender equivalent of “race traitors.”
From Susie Bright's substack, Jan 16 2023, talking about the feminist porn battles in the 80's and 90's.
(from Wikipedia: "On Our Backs was the first women-run erotica magazine and the first magazine to feature lesbian erotica for a lesbian audience in the United States. It ran from 1984 to 2006.")
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it's kind of upsetting how little research antis want to put into their arguments. darkfic/proship content is not an unhealthy coping mechanism, and never will be, and sharing that content with others isn't unhealthy, either; it's a way to share experiences and thoughts and combat the isolation and general feeling of "i'm the only one that's been through this, so therefore i am gross/'messed up'," that comes with trauma (and specifically sexual trauma). reading and writing my own darkfic exploring some of the shit i went through/things similar did far more for my recovery than bottling everything up and keeping it to myself ever did, and it was certainly a better alternative to the actually unhealthy coping mechanisms i've used. (well... unless the fifteen year olds want to argue with several professionals, anyway.)
plus, telling proshippers who create content to vent that a) their thoughts are wrong, and b) they shouldn't be sharing those thoughts with other people because "they'll hurt minors," or "they're gross," just feels so icky. forgive me if this is too bold a claim for fuckin tumblr drama, but it parallels a lot of things people who seriously fucked me up have said while they were fucking me up, because things like that rely on the victim feeling guilty, ashamed, and most importantly staying isolated and quiet. Spouting out poorly-researched claims like this and pushing what is essentially a puritan moral code onto everyone around you, even in the name of "protecting minors and survivors," is doing WAY more harm than good.
but... what i say doesn't matter, does it? we don't really count as survivors unless we stay quiet and alone, just like antis want, right? eat my dick.
#i think this is the first time ive ever genuinely been triggered by the anti discourse. saw someone say something that was like. almost#IDENTICAL to something ive heard before and had to go sit down for a lil while LMAO#imagine getting triggered overover online discourse. cringe /j#but yeah anyway i doubt anyone will actually listen to this bc rhe only survivors worth listening to are the quiet ones who agree ig#still. itd be nice if the people pushing these ideas could think abt their word choice and actions for a sec#discourse#anti anti#proship#anti discourse#proship discourse
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