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briebysabs · 2 years

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I want to talk about vnc chapter 12/episode 7

Why? Because I need to finally rant so just bare with me *inhales* WHAT THE SHIT IS THIS I DON’T THINK WE LOSE OUR MINDS ENOUGH

I almost want to go panel by panel bc I still can’t believe this chapter exists. When I’m seriously interpreting/analyzing something in a series I try to look from an objective POV. Basically I push aside my shipper heart to see what the author is trying to do canonically. But every time I go back to this specific chapter, the only thing I get out of it is that Noé is going to fall in love with Vanitas. And for the first time, I feel like this is a possibility that could actually happen and that’s crazy. So okay let me go slowly bc what?!!!

First of all, the chapter frames Noé, Vanitas, and Jeanne in certain perspectives quite oddly. The anime does too so that’s why some believe Noé likes Jeanne instead. Which kinda doesn’t make sense for a number of reasons. Now there can definitely be some vampiric connection between the two.

But in terms of romantic interest, it doesn’t add up. Hell we’re 40 + chapters ahead of this one and I can count on my fingers how many lines they’ve said to each other. So if Noé liked Jeanne, it definitely would’ve come back into play by now. After Vani and Jeanne run off, Noé goes after them immediately. And given we’ve seen how fast he is, it’s most likely he heard and also saw their encounter. Meaning Noé knows 1) the uncertainty of Jeanne being a curse-bearer or not 2) her deal with sucking only Vanitas’ blood.

Now mind you, this was 44 chapters ago and Noé still has not told anyone this. Going back to him being good at keeping secrets but that’s it’s own topic. Then he gets this sad look on his face. Now what he ends up telling Domi is the truth. And I want to be more clear on this. I do not think at this point in the story Noé loves Vanitas. It’s more so how this chapter ends is what leaves me stunned but we’ll get there. Plus the fact that Domi, till now, thinks Noé likes Jeanne IS VERY PROOF THAT’S NOT THE CASE.

So when you do the process of elimination, Vanitas is the only logical answer!!! And this freaking line. This is a strong statement for someone whose only upset about a missed opportunity to taste some blood.

His heart was in pain. WHAT THE FUCK

But that’s the thing. Noé doesn’t lie. But he omits A LOT. It also can be that he just doesn’t fully understand so his mind jumps to the obvious conclusion. But if he does think there’s more to it, Noé didn’t tell Domi. Now we get the real meat of it all. Oh my lord so Noé poses the question: Why don’t Vanitas dance with Jeanne? And Vanitas gives the excuse that he’ll accidentally step on her. We later find out he can dance just fine, so perhaps a part of him is already giving distance. Not willing to be close to Jeanne beyond teasing.

Now...MOCHIJUN DID NOT HAVE TO DRAW IT LIKE THIS. She could’ve had Noé smiling and pull Vanitas in to dance without any close-ups. She could’ve made it a silly moment but no, we are meant to take this scene seriously

I’ve noticed Noé has a number of scenes that there’s a small panel to the side where his eyes are covered. And I think a lot of the time it was a moment involving Vani. It gives off the impression that Noé is feeling something the author doesn’t want to make obvious.

And then we get the fucking line. Let’s say I’m reading this all wrong. The fact that mochijun has her two male protagonists dancing together as one asks ‘what is love?’ Is proof that she is at the very least, not unwilling to go there. LIKE DO WE KNOW HOW WILD THIS REALLY IS? I truly believe the fandom accepted this moment way too casually.

Noé asking almost contemplative what Vanitas sees in Jeanne. Remember he knows Vanitas wants Jeanne to suck only his blood. He is confused why Vanitas suddenly gravitates to Jeanne. Vanitas lists his reasons, one that includes that she’ll never love him back. Noé is rightfully confused by this but Vanitas states that she doesn’t have to love him back. If mochijun wants to go the romantic route for Noe’s ‘love’ IT WILL BE EXACTLY THIS. Because if she goes the romantic direction. First and foremost, I will have the highest respect for this woman bc I know she must’ve entered a battlefield for that to happen. But more so, if my interpretation of all this is right. Noé may never tell Vanitas. Think about it.

Noé believes Vanitas loves Jeanne. So out of kindness for Vani’s happiness, he wouldn’t say anything. That’s just the type of person Noé is. But also, the amount of effort, time, and vulnerability it took for Noé to get as close as he is with Vani. You think he’s going to risk jeopardizing ALL of that? And that’s the tragedy and beauty of it all. Vanitas doesn’t have to know that Noé loves him. No one has to know. But if again, this possibility is canon, we the audience know it’s going to be a inevitable regret down the line.

Finally the chapter concludes with future Noé narrating how this feeling will be a mystery for quite some time. I’d like to point out how Vanitas didn’t dance with Jeanne in fear of stepping on her toes but Noé does exactly that to him. Honestly my second favorite chapter. It felt like seeds were being planted for them to sprout into fruition later on. So many little details felt purposeful and it was the moment I really believed in vnc’s writing.

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neversetyoufree · 1 year

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I just realized that there are a lot of similarities between FMA and VnC; from certain characters and their dynamics to story beats. And that’s because Mochijun’s inspiration was Hiromu Arakawa. Isn’t that right?

Hey anon, I'm super interested to hear what dynamics and story beats you think parallel between FMA and VNC, because I'm personally having trouble thinking of any? Like I genuinely really want to hear more about this idea and what connections I'm missing.

I suppose you could make the small angry+strong sunshine duo comparison between Ed and Al and Vanitas and Noé, but just about every other thing about their dynamic is very different lmao. It's been a hot minute since I read FMA though, so I could be forgetting something.

As for Mochizuki being inspired by Hiromu Arakawa, I actually didn't know that until you said it here! I did some googling, and here's an interview (in French lol) where she talks about that for anyone else curious. Thanks for the fun fact, anon :D. I know they've also talked in public before about being fans of one another's series, which is extremely cute. It's always exciting to me to see the creators of things I enjoy supporting one another's work.

That said, though, I'm not sure how much I think FMA was an influence on VnC specifically? Mochijun has talked about her inspirations for VnC, and a lot of it came from Interview with the Vampire, Sherlock and Watson, and her actual visits to Paris. I suppose the whole thread of Paracelsus and the Babel Incident could be inspired by Van Hohenheim's whole deal? But we know so little about all that right now that it's hard to say if there's much parallel beyond "mysterious alchemical history."

Now that I've finished saying, "huh, I dunno about that" in various tones to every part of your post, though, I do have one way that I agree FMA and VnC are similar! I have a longer post about this in my drafts that I might dig up someday, but I think they're similar in the way that they approach their shonen/action elements.

Shonen tends to often be really driven by fights/action. The characters want to get stronger, and the process by which they get stronger forms the heart of the series. It's why training and tournament arcs are such staples lmao. With FMA and VnC, however, the action isn't really the series' core. There are a lot of fight scenes in both, but the fighting and getting stronger is never really the point.

I hesitate to get more into the specifics of what I mean by this now because, frankly, I haven't reread FMA in like six years, and I'm almost certainly going to forget something big and/or say something wrong if I try to talk about it in too much detail. But I hope you can kind of get what I mean?

They're both series that are very invested in forcing their characters to examine certain themes and question themselves. To be a little reductive, FMA is about ethics and VnC is about death and salvation. It's just that sometimes the means by which Ed, Al, Noé, and Vanitas are forced to question those ideas is by fighting.

A lot of shonen (though certainly not all) falls into the category of "stories about action and fighting that also have themes," whereas FMA and VnC are more "stories about themes that also have action and fighting."

#I hope the distinction I'm making in the last section makes sense #I'm holding vnc and fma in contrast to something like dmon slayer or jujtsu kaisen #not a value judgement on more fighty shonen! but vnc and fma are just a slightly different brand #vnc #vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #meta #comparision

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its-ya-fellow-mochi-weeb · 2 years

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The feeling of loving something that's doomed to end one day is just-

Unexplainable, both in a good way and a bad way.

Everything just seems so beautiful when you know there'll be a time when it's going to be there anymore. When you know it already ended and you're just looking back on your own memories.

Talking about how an inevitable end makes things beautiful makes me think of how we're also witnessing for ourselves Noe and Vanitas' journey.

Watching the two of them grow closer while knowing what will come to them in their future just makes it so wonderful and so terrible to see at the same time.

If Mochijun wrote VnC without revealing it early that Noé will kill Vanitas, what we'd get from watching the two of them would be happiness in watching them grow or something similar. Maybe suspense too because it's Mochijun but the point is that we'll be happy watching them grow together.

But that's pretty much just about it.

We're happy and that's it. Yes, in that scenario, Mochijun could kill off Vanitas later on and we probably wouldn't see it coming. But I think in that story, we'd think that "they'll never be together again". We won't immediately think "they'll never have this moment anymore." It's only when you finally reread that you think about it.

But in the Vanitas no Carte that we know?

Likely, we're almost constantly thinking about both of those thoughts.

Because this, in future Noe's eyes, isn't something that's happening in present time. This story is Noé's memories of his journey with Vanitas. This story is already finished and we, along with Noe, are just looking back on it now.

The pain that we feel knowing how it all end and the happiness of watching two people develop as individual persons and close partners. With those two comes out a bittersweet feeling that engraves itself deep into our souls. The thoughts "they'll never be together again" and "they'll never have this moment anymore" are haunting us.

And the union of all of that creates a tragically alluring sight that strikes deep into our hearts.

#'we will never be here again'#damn it burntthroat really destroyed me with that one 😭#i died and came back to life just to cry and write this post #like does this post even make sense #i was too sad to think straight when i wrote this #the case study of vanitas #vanitas no carte #noé archiviste #noe archiviste #vanitas #vanitas no shuki #wait did i just write meta???#vnc meta #mochijun ily so much 😭#youre a bit of a sadist but i still love you 😭#yafellowweeb's random thoughts

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lizzieonka · 2 years

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The VnC Anime Pacing is Too Fast

Seriously...

I haven’t finished watching season 2 (part 2?) yet, but just the fact that it had caught up to the manga is just... wild

Of course, I’d love the entire manga to be adapted as soon as possible... But if the adaptation comes with a lot of far-off/long shots, sub-par scenes, and a lot of manga scenes cut just to squeeze everything in, I’d rather the anime just stop

I had expected s2 to end with the Gevaudan arc and maybe a little after that... but now seeing gifs of Misha and of VaniNoe hugging in the rain, I’m totally at a loss

I admit MochiJun’s storytelling is rather slow-paced compared to most shounen manga. The anime speeding things up could keep anime-only’s attention far longer... but at the same time, I feel like the anime is doing a disservice to MochiJun

MochiJun’s pace may be slow, but it’s with purpose. Her stories have always been complex, and she always shows hints of the overarching plot early on in the story. Her slow pace also gives her time to develop side characters, which the anime may think inessential, looking at how they’ve treated the dhams...

I’m really not satisfied with how the anime is going about now. Sure, it’s miles better than Pandora Hearts, but MochiJun deserves so much more. With how fast things are going, I can hardly feel the depth of emotions the manga was able to convey...

I’ll talk more once I finish watching everything, but for now, I’m just 😔

#vanitas no carte #vanitas no shuki #the case study of vanitas #miyamiwu.src #miyamiwu.tol #miyamiwu.tol.vnc

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temporoom · 3 years

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Theory time: Vanitas’ early childhood

Contains manga spoilers, proceed with caution. (To simplify my writing, I’ll refer to our current human Vanitas as Vanitas, and the Vampire of the Blue Moon, the original Vanitas, as Luna with they/them pronouns)

So lately I’ve been obsessed with reading VnC analysis, and I think we can all conclude that Vanitas misogyny is due to the death of his mother when he was born, and his father giving signs of not loving him (though we know it’s not true) during his childhood. Which ended up in him assuming what we traditionally consider “feminine” chores (such as cooking, cleaning, and overall taking care of others), all the while being told he looked like his mother.

What I find interesting with this description of his life is that our young Vanitas here is explaining things objectively, or from an external point of view, and when it comes to feelings, he is making assumptions (he still does btw).

It’s not to make a psychological analysis on a fictional character (which is nearly impossible to be honest), but rather an assumption about how he ended up in this situation of being in a feminine position. So my take is more on a narrative standpoint, to make a parallel with Mikhail, and make it link to Luna:

Unlike Mikhail, who was forced by his mother to be like just like her during his younger years, I think Vanitas put that burden on himself on his volition, or at least indirectly.

Now, when we look back at the dialogue above, I mentioned Vanitas was making a lot of assumptions about other people’s feelings... And he still does. I believe he could have always done that since a young age. It could be for a simple reason, like his father having trouble showing his emotions after his wife’s death, and so he had no other choices but to guess what he was thinking.

Then we have another factor to take in account: He grew up amongst people who knew his mother. Of course, we have the explicit statement that people told him he looked like her. But it usually does not stop at that. There must still be some lingering traces of her in everything: in the instruments, in the clothes, in the type of meals they would eat, in the way people would talk and what they would talk about...etc. Basically, the members of the travelling players could have indirectly reminded to Vanitas that his mother died, and (children put things together easily) he thought he was the reason for it.

So then, what if the idea emerged in his head at some point to simply and surely replace his mother? Or at least the idea of her? To replace the ghost she left in the group, making the overbearing presence of her death go away by becoming what she used to represent. Maybe he could have think it as a way to obtain his father’s attention, or at least a reaction. Hence why the long hair, and his ability to manage house chores. And I’m maybe overthinking... But we never see his legs in the panels during which he talks about his childhood, maybe to hide a skirt? It wouldn’t be the first time MochiJun hides things through clever paneling (I’m still angry at that damn black rabbt from PH).

Then the reason for why he thought his father disliked him would be simple: Just like how Dominique tried to replace Louis, Vanitas tried to replace his mother, and like Noé who couldn’t bear to not only lose Dominique that way but also be constantly reminded of Louis’ death, Vanitas’ father would see the same ghost of his dead wife in his son, and couldn’t bear it. If my supposition is true, and Vanitas’ father was a secretive person, then unlike Noé who directly told it to Dominique, he maybe couldn’t and simply endured seeing his son disappear as the death of his wife was constantly reminded to him. It did not mean that he loved him less, but he wouldn’t know how to act around him anymore.

So now you wonder: how does that link to Luna? Well Mikhail see Luna as a man, we mostly assume it’s because they represent the father figure he never had because that’s what Mikhail said himself. While Vanitas sees them as a woman, and again, because of Mikhail’s claim, we assume it’s because they represent the mother he never had. All of the conversations leads up to that conclusion... But after going through all of Pandora Hearts, I know MochiJun just loves those kinds of misleading texts.

What if Vanitas and Mikhail aren’t projecting the parental figure they wished they had on Luna, but rather the person they wished to be? Mikhail has been stripped away from his masculinity by his mother and forced to act as a girl, hence why he sees a man in Luna, but if Vanitas decided to imitate his mother on his own will... Then Luna would become the woman he couldn’t be (do not see any trans subtext in this, it’s purely on gender roles basis). It would add to his anger against them, since they are genderless, they could be anything they wanted to, unlike him.

To Mikhail and Vanitas, Luna would then be the representation of the gender roles they couldn’t fit in.

The conclusion of this theory is that Vanitas’ overall misogyny doesn’t actually come from being forced into a “feminine” role during his childhood, but rather because he wasn’t able to fullfill that role.

Well. Thank you for reading, I hope you all enjoy tomorrow’s episode.

And credits to @/bemused_writer for her incredible analysis on each manga chapters, this is what helped me come up with this small theory.

#vanitas no shuki #the case study of vanitas #vanitas no carte #les memoires de vanitas #manga spoilers #theory #character theory #character analysis #?#maybe?#lots of assumptions #gender roles

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annonmaly · 3 years

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Ok, It's Not Red. So What?

"Oh, It's Not Red" continuation

Welcome to the third part of my posts regarding Mochijun-sensei's official VnC artworks. This is just a continuation of the 2nd part (there will be no artworks to be discussed). I will just share some absurd ideas that I came up with after my realization (some may already be out there). If there's any chance that you stumbled to the prior post and decided to continue. I salute you brave warriors that assume I would mention anything that makes any sense. To those who have no time to read a post that only talked about Murr's eye color. Here's a summary: I realized Murr's right eye is not red.

Curious as to how did I come to this conclusion? Check it out here: Oh, It's Not Red (You may not read the first part as it isn't related to this. But if you want to, it's here: Regarding some of VnC Artwork this title is so uncreative)

As usual, a friendly reminder that best in writing is an award I never received. I'm not the person who could analyze, explain, or theorize things clearly. Please bear that in mind while reading. Photos are not mine, of course. Also, spoiler alert to be safe

Now that it's all said and done. Let's go ahead and talk about Murr.

By this time, we already know who is Murr. And I think we all agree that the cat is not just a cute mascot of the series. I bet that he would be a game-changer (yes, I'm putting Murr on a high pedestal). The question is: What do you think of Murr's role in the story?

After spending hours and hours of reading here and there, the common theories I found are:

1. Murr is Sensei (The Shapeless One)

Sensei is an observer. And where is the best place to observe? It's beside your subject of interest. Also, as his title suggests, he is shapeless, so maybe he could shapeshift into anything he wants. This sounds probable but, I do not lean on this much for two reasons.

Personal preference. If this is true, Sensei is weird, not terrifying. I mean, instead of doing scary and shady affairs during his free time, he decided to be a cat just to watch Noé.

Look at the image below closely.

Did you found Murr? No? Take a closer look at Louis. At first, I thought he was just reading, but his book has a weird shape. Where did I see that again? Oh, right.

Not yet satisfied? See this panel from the manga. This is after the first image's scene.

(Grandpa obviously has his favorites)

I think the cat Louis' holding is Murr. Thus, there's a panel where Sensei and Murr are together. That's the second reason I'm skeptical about this theory, folks.

Well, we also don't know. Maybe grandpa killed the cat so he could disguise himself as one.

2. Murr is a spy camera of Grandpa De Sade

It's a simple one. The theory goes like this: Murr's right eye connects to Sensei in whatever way. This panel is what inspires this theory:

(This cat really is suspicious, I bet he is one of the puppet masters of this arc along with Sensei)

This theory is what I'm more inclined to believe. I suppose the cat is working under/with Grandpa for their grand schemes. So, of course, he would report to Sensei the events that took place. Whether he is using his right eye or whatever means it is.

Going to my personal thoughts...

I guess that Murr was a kin of the vampire of the blue moon. He used the power too much, and thus he was rewritten from the inside. Alas, Murr became a cat! Why is he heterochromatic, tho?

Ok, kidding aside, there are two ideas I want to share.

1. Possibly Twins

Mochijun-sensei dropped the bomb in chapter 46. She gave us the idea that the theme of twins would be relevant in the story. Here is the page where Veronica mentioned the thing about twins:

Then three chapters later when Misha forced Noé to drink his blood and reveal his memory. Mochijun-Sensei dropped another bomb.

After seeing this, we speculated that Faustina and Luna are twins. I love that thought. Just imagine how complex the relationship it would be between the two. But if we think about it. What if this is just a misdirection? First, Mochijun-sensei makes us aware that the subject of twins is somewhat important. And while that information is still fresh in our memory, she dropped another bomb and told us that the blue vampire and the queen looked alike. Mochijun-sensei set this up so that we could connect the two easily.

All we know is that: Vampire twins are a symbol of bad luck, and Luna looks like Faustina. This is just me overthinking things, but what's life without competition. So, let's add three more names to the list that could be a set of twins.

Murr and Luna: Because why not? His left eye is blue. Also, Luna's left eye was never shown in the series. It's always hidden by her hair, maybe it's a different color.

Noé and Luna: Let's just say he is older than the series claimed him to be. Noé's memory started on the day that it snowed. I believe that Mochijun-sensei is keeping the timeline vague since it would reveal too much information. I mean, we don't know how long time passed from the day Noé was found by the old couple to the day Sensei brought him to the castle in the forest. Keep in mind that the vampire's growth differs for each person, as well.

Also, is the story the Noé and Sensei told trustworthy?

(How kind are this kidnappers that the kid was not traumatized? Also what's with the injuries. I don't much about slave trading in VnC world. But, if you're going to sell something you don't want it to have visible damage right. Sorry if the comparison sounds offending)

As far as I could tell, Sensei is shady, like really. Noé's memory is also not reliable. After all, someone out there may have the ability to manipulate memories. What if Noé was was born ages ago and was induced to sleep for a long time for whatever reasons?

Going back to Noé and Luna. Mochijun-sensei is giving us subtle hints of his association with Luna. I only saw Luna from one chapter, but I could say they are somewhat similar aside from the hair and skin(?) color (I will make a list later if I still have of time on hand).

(Child Noé and Luna both have similar haistyle, they have the "lid" as Mochijun-sensei called it. Their eyes are different tho')

Go on, read chapter 49, you'll see what I mean. Also, take note that at some panels (especially the ones where Noé is feeling extreme emotions), Noé's left eye was hidden by his hair or something. Who else out there that we don't see her left eye? Yup, the vampire of the blue moon (I have a weird feeling about Noe's left eye that I will share later) To conclude this, I think that Noé was not from this era. He is actually from the past and preserved in whatever way from whatever reason. And maybe he is actually the twin brother of Luna, seeing that they have a resemblance.

For now, I won't say that he's a reincarnation of Luna (I may change my mind later) as the timeline doesn't coincide. Besides, human Vani's reaction when Misha told him that there's a way to revive Luna is intense. Meaning he wants Luna to stay dead. I also believe that human Vani is hiding "something" he knows about Noé. So if Noé's a reincarnated Luna, there's no way human Vani would stay with him.

Murr and Noé

If you saw my previous post. I convinced myself that Murr's right eye's color is violet (the same shade as Noé's). That's why I decided to include them here. I have no definitive reasoning aside from their eye color and how Murr treated Noé in the series.

In the meantime, I'll write the scenario in my head. What if Murr and Noé are twins. Something happened when they were young, and so they were separated. Noé was somewhere we don't know yet, while Murr encountered Vampire Vanitas and Grandpa DeSade. Then the rest is history.

I swear I didn't expect it to be this long, at any rate, this would be to be continued here: Ok, It's Not Red. So What? (continuation)

Note: This is just a random theory, thoughts, assumptions, and/or head-canons. I wrote this to indulge my over-thinking self. Thank you for taking the time to read and understanding if I made any mistakes or post whatever it is you don’t agree on.

#thoughts about vnc panels

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panvani · 3 years

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what parts of vnc has you most interested?

Basically, I don't care about the things that have made it popular. Lol.

For real though, my reading of manga tends to focus specifically on the text way more than the drawings, which means things like battle scenes are a pain to get through. That's on me, of course, and there have definitely been times where it's considerably detracted from my understanding/enjoyment of a scene (or even an entire series... The dense art style of Dorohedoro made it really hard for me to enjoy, since I couldn't tell what was going on at a glance). The amount I'm able to go "wow, cool" over a shounen manga doesn't really factor into my liking it.

Also, I don't care about the romance. I'm gay, I'm glad to see gay characters in media I like, and I do have a bias towards f/f and to a lesser extent m/m because of this, but ultimately, I don't care what happens. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the story particularly and I don't read the romances in VnC through a shipping lens. I find the way a lot of people consume romances in media to be really alienating, and I try not to involve myself in it too much. Also, I think MochiJun personally is just kind of terrible at writing romance. What few legitimate attempts she's made just kind of suck, and tend to range from at best funny in their incompatibility, to extremely uncomfortable. Especially m/f, because she has some obvious hangups about that.

That being said, I do like relationships to represent a coherent thematic whole! If I'm right about the direction Vanitas is going with its romance writing (that is, it's ultimately a representation of a group of traumatized young adults who keep setting themselves up for failure in romance due to a lack of understanding of healthy relationships), I actually think that's pretty cool. I also care about relationships that provide greater context for individual characters. I think Mochizuki's greatest strength as a writer is in her characters, and a big part of how she does that is showing how characters interact with other people. I dislike VnJn intensely as a "ship," but I really like it as a set of character actions and way of exemplifying their individual characterizations.

The advantage of MochiJun's insistence upon a Retrace/Memoire format with PH and VnC is that it allowed her to extensively utilize a not-entirely-linear plot structure. Both PH and VnC justify their regular chapter+ long flashbacks in canon, and I think it works for MochiJun's character writing style. The strongest parts of her character writing usually comes from characters reminiscing over a particularly emotionally charged subject (see: RTXXXVIII, M31, M46). So I like seeing those ^_^.

Then, I'm interested in the sweeping thematic statements VnC has over any individual scene, though I find VnC to really be fun to read either way. That's why most of my talk about Astolfo has been 1. how funny it is that he's a parody of the fate/ character and 2. how oh my God, MochiJun isn't a chicken shit coward and realizes sometimes you do need to punch a racist!

That doesn't mean I disregard other parts- I've made a fair number of speculatory posts, as you've probably seen. These are just the parts I'm most invested in.

#logxx #logam #answers #anonymous #Tl;dr I don't care what cool powerups Noé or Vani or whoever get #And I don't care who they end up with #(itself)#I DO care about individual character writing #And overarching themes #Hope this helps

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digital-dhampirs · 4 years

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30 Days of Vanitas no Carte: Day 21!

Who do you think will still be living at the end of the series?

because this is mochijun, and people Will Die.

Let’s start with the most obvious living character: Noé won’t die. He’s the narrator (similar to Gil in Pandora Hearts) and we know that he’s writing and creating the case study of Vanitas in hindsight after Vanitas’s “death”, aka after the manga is over. He might die at the very end of the manga, after he finishes his case study, but not any time before. Essentially, he’ll live until at least the last 3 pages, and will probably survive the whole manga.

Next up is Vanitas, who I’m really not sure about. Noé says Vanitas dies, but Vanitas says he doesn’t die, he’s just going away or something.... which makes me think he’s going to end up in some state of limbo, maybe returning at the very end of the manga from this limbo somehow? idk. Maybe living, maybe dead, maybe like half living and half dead.

I think whether Dominique lives or dies will depend a lot on the next Misha/ Exposition Universelle arc. It really depends on how deeply her actions impact the plot of the arc— the deeper/ more negative the impact, the more likely she is to die. I think her death could be an interesting way to show/ shape Noé’s psyche, especially if she dies at the hands of either Teacher of Vanitas... however, I did feel this way towards the middle of the Return of the Beast Arc with Jean- Jacques too so this might just be my brain being sadistic. Overall Dominique’s death would have some extremely interesting plot repercussions but since Noé would kill to protect her, her death seems a bit unlikely.

Jeanne is another question mark. I feel like her plot arc is just starting (I mean what’s with that weird random clone girl thing aaaaugh) so I can’t come to any conclusions until we know more about her situation. We do know, however, that Jeanne is currently one of the most well- protected people in the entire story. Jeanne is extremely valuable to every single power hungry vampire as the person Grand Duke Lucius Oriflamme loves more than anyone else in the world. Ruthven in particular will try to avoid killing Jeanne because of this. TLDR: she might die but definitely not any time soon.

Next up is Luca! To be completely frank... I don’t think Luca will die. He’s way too valuable to the vampires. Since he has no blood relatives that we know of besides his brother Loki and his adopted uncle Ruthven, there is nobody Luca can pass the title of Grand Duke to (I’m assuming it’s a hereditary title because Luca is like... 12) until he’s older, which means killing him means killing the second most politically powerful people in the universe. That’s causing extreme, extrEME retaliation. In addition to that most people underestimate Luca do to his age and don’t see him as as powerful as he actually is. The one exception to this “Luca doesn’t die” rule is if he dies protecting Jeanne— this is a very real possibility, but I don’t think Jeanne will let it happen. Luca won’t die.

Let’s move on to Jean- Jacques and Chloé, more characters who I don’t think will die. They live in an isolated forest, can protect themselves from intruders, and are both like a thousand years old. I think they’re just gonna life on happily in Gévaudan.

Next up in our “who’s gonna die” list is Roland. I’m not sure how he would die, because Roland is extremely powerful, but the fact that the character from the Matter of France that he’s based on dies makes it extremely likely that Roland is going to die too. I really can’t see how he’d die, though. But I do think he’s going to die before the manga is over. Roland is a character that’s honestly already completed his character arc— he loves himself, loves everyone else, has learned to accept people, everything else. Him dying nobly in some way or another would honestly not be an out of order completion of his character arc.

Everything I just said for Roland? Copy/ paste that (except for the part about loving and accepting people lol) here and you’ll get my feelings on Olivier. He dies in the Matter of France so it does seem like he’s gonna die in VnC too.

The next main Chasseur to talk about is Astolfo. I think Astolfo is going to live for the opposite reason that I think Roland is going to die— Astolfo hasn’t completed his character arc. If he dies now, just a kid full of fury and regret, his plot arc isn’t really satisfying in any way unless he has some kind of extremely last minute turnaround a bit like Elliot’s realization about Humpty Dumpty in Pandora Hearts. To sum it all up Astolfo prolly won’t die.

Riche and Johann won’t die.

I really don’t want Dante to die, but I could see him dying either for his family (Johann and Riche) or for Vanitas. Oof.

And now, let’s get into some of the more morally ambiguous characters in the manga! As for Misha, I don’t think Misha will die— the only reason for his death would be if there’s absolutely no other way for Noé and Vanitas to deal with him than to kill him/ let him die. However, I also can’t think of a way for the Misha/ Exposition Universalle to end neatly unless Misha dies. What a paradox.

Ruthven will die. He has to. There’s no other way for the story to end. There’s a sliiiight possibility that Ruthven will somehow go through an extreme change of heart or something, but I really think to only question I have about his ending is whether he’ll die a redeemable or irredeemable character. He’s also the character I could see nearly any other character killing and having a logical reason for doing so? He’s finna die.

The Teacher will live. This might just be my own strange liking for the Teacher as a character but I think he’s too OP to do anything but survive. Also, in a less opinionated way— the Case Study of Vanitas as a whole is nothing but a collection of letters Noé has written to Teacher that he’s collected and added his own memories to, creating one case file created for Teacher. Noé could be doing this all for himself/ to fulfill the Teacher’s last request or something, but that seems a tad unlikely.

And that’s about it! I hope to do more of these prompts, but they may be a lil out of order from here on out. I haven’t included a few characters who seem important— particularly the Beastias, Manet and Nox, and Luna— mainly because we either just don’t know enough about them (first four) or we don’t even know if they’re alive in the first place (Luna). What do you think? Who will live and who will die in Vanitas no Carte?

#vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #vanitas no shuki #les memoires de vanitas #noé archiviste #vnc #vnc theory #meta-ish

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dazais-guardian-angel · 5 years

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PH/VC: 3, 8, 16, 20!

3. Who is your favorite character from both the ph and vnc universe?

PH, Gilbert, the beautiful boy. I feel weird for saying that, considering that the ones I always seem to talk about are Break and others instead alkfklglkfdkld...... but I want to say he still edges out everyone else for #1. He’s just a good, sweet, dorky and loyal baby... and goddamn it at the end of everything he was the only one still alive OTL

And Noe without a doubt. Again, sweet, dorky, pure cinnamon roll... but also not afraid to kick some ass when he needs to, just like Gilbert.

8. What is your favorite Pandora Hearts OST?

Will. There are other songs on the soundtrack I like a bit better, aesthetically... but Will is the true encapsulation of Pandora Hearts for me. No other song in existence sums up all the feelings this series gives than this song; I tear up almost every time I listen to it and think about the manga. Maybe it’s because the goddamn final chapter is called that, which Yuki Kajiura couldn’t have known at the time... but wow. Honorable mentions are Parting Song, Confidence, and Reminisce.

16. Do you hold any controversial ph or vnc opinions?

Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Strap in folks; I’m about to spill the hottest and most painful tea that’s been burning me alive since March 2014, that I will take any and all opportunity to spill with bitter, salty pleasure.

Break’s death was terribly handled near the end of Pandora Hearts. It took me a long time to realize that I wasn’t upset at the fact that he simply died, no; of course none of us wanted it to happen, but we were expecting it for a long time coming; it was the terrible dread looming at the back of our minds for literally years. But do you know what I hate more than literally anything? Characters whose entire arcs are about them having no desire to live, and them eventually finally gaining that newfound appreciation and desire for life, only to be killed right when they’ve finally acknowledged their happiness at being alive. And that’s exactly what’s done to Break. The end of the chapter tries to play it off as peaceful and bittersweet, but NO; Break DID NOT WANT TO DIE. In his last moments he was crying to not die. That’s not nice and good writing; that’s extremely upsetting! This is a common thing that happens again and again in media: traumatized and depressed characters, even if they heal somewhat, are not allowed a happy ending by the end. And to make matters worse, after his death, Break is literally FORGOTTEN for the entire rest of the series, because so much other shit is going down and other characters are dying left and right, and he becomes just a body drug around and is never acknowledged again. Oscar, and freaking Echo, got more beautiful deaths/better sendoffs than Break, a MAIN CHARACTER (and look I love Oscar to death, and Echo, hell OzEcho is one of my ships tbh, and I have absolutely nothing wrong with Oscar’s part, but seriously you’re telling me Oz gets to cry over Echo, but not Break???). Even Elliot got a chapter where they mourned him, although there still needed to be more. But Break’s treatment, where Sharon and Reim are the only ones who ever get to acknowledge that he even died? It’s a spit in his face, in his arc, and I fucking hate it SO much. It’s such lazy, rushed writing, like much of the final arc/climax in PH. I would have loved (well, “loved”) to see him die later, peacefully, after he’d had his time to live, surrounded by the others; I’d be sad, of course, but not hurt, insulted. Not in the chaos of the climax where it’s treated as a goddamn afterthought, and is so far from what he deserved at all. Vincent got this treatment, satisfied with his life when he died, and it was perfect, so why couldn’t Break get this too?

PH was the second manga I ever read, and so far is the only one I’ve read the longest that has had its conclusion, and within those 4ish years I read it, I grew so attached to its characters, which made Break’s death hurt me so much more - I’m not exaggerating when I say it’s the hardest-hitting character death I’ve ever experienced do NOT fucking challenge that, CERTAIN OTHER SERIES. The combination of how long I read it and how attached I became, how new I was to animanga when I read it, and how much looking back on it has made me able to understand and see the difference between good and bad writing, and realize what kind of bad writing tropes personally bother me the most (of which this one is at the top), is why I’m still so bitter and upset about it to this day, and always will be (and also why I’m wary reading other ongoing manga of quality drops... I’m traumatized, man). Break deserved better and it’s a goddamn tragedy he got shit on the way he did in the last 12 chapters *sips tea and feasts on the salt from my tears*

As for VnC.... it hasn’t been happening much recently that I know of, thankfully, but uhhh the way Domi treats Noe with the collar and all that like he’s her pet is really disturbing, considering that he used to be a slave? And just mmmm no can she Not? Yeah. Not a huge fan of her tbh.

20. Which story do you prefer so far between ph and vnc?

PH without a doubt, but that’s only because its characters are so beloved to me and I’ve seen so much more of them. There just hasn’t been enough of VnC yet, so despite my misgivings about PH’s climax/ending, it still is my favorite of the two. A lot of it is amazing, after all. But who knows, maybe once VnC finishes it’ll be my favorite. Only time will tell if Jun became a better writer and can stick the landing this time.

Thanks Masky!

MochiJun Series Ask Meme

#ask meme #pandora hearts #pandora hearts spoilers #the case study of vanitas #was this just an excuse for me to spill my Break controversial opinions? yes #do I care? no #I will take ANY OPPORTUNITY TO RANT ABOUT THIS TEA #COME AT ME HATERS #i love pandora hearts to death and also hate it #it causes me grief at least once every couple months #the-masked-barona

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thisgoldenafternoon · 7 years

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Coincidence, you said??

Hey there, I'm back with another rant (rambling, whatever I don’t care) this time on a panel of VnC, that probably made many a heart flutter.

I'm talking about this panel from Memoir 14:

This post will contain spoilers for VnC so far and Pandora Hearts. Turn away now, you have been warned. It’s also gonna be long as fuck...

And therefore I can hardly believe, that this special pannel, should have been nothing but fanservice or a lumpish reference to PH. No way.

Why would she even choose theese alias? For aforementioned reasons? I highly doubt it. Bitch, please, this is MoshiJun-sensei, after all. Give her some credit.

So I thought about it and various things crossed my mind.

Please note: the following is nothing but me rambling about some vague parallels and thoughts, that popped right into my head at 1am right after reading Memoir 14, that I only now found time to put into words.

(Btw, english isn’t my mother toungue so please bear with mistakes and weird grammar)

(And would you look at this, it’s nearly 1am again... did I mention that I gotta go to work at 7:30 am tomorrow? Today??? Well, as soon as the alarm rings, anyways)

So first of all... I think that when we look back at that scene from a later point in the story we might realize just how much of a foreshadowing she's been giving us here. From what we've learnt in the last arc we can already draw many parallels between those characters.

Let's start with Vincent and Vanitas, shall we?

Both of them are considered harbingers of bad luck, Vince as a child of misfortune for that red eye of his, Vanitas for been kin of the blue moon and therefore associated with the curse of Bloom Vanitas. Both of the symbols of misfortune are closely linked to the cirumstances of their births and a certain colour, but that just seems to be the way MochiJun rolls.

Although we still don't know much about Vanis early childhood, it's stated that he, too, is an orphan who'd been abused and manipulated.

Also, Vanitas seems to blame himself heavily for the (still unknown fate) of Nr. 71, who'd referred to him as “Oni-chan”. Whether they're blood relatives or not matters little, as I'm sure he has as big a brother complex as Vincent had.

It's further hinted that Vani caused someone's death, and boy isn't that true for Vincent as well (no it's absolutely not, for the poor little sinnamon roll had been fucking manipulated by Jack and was just trying to save the only person he's ever loved and vice versa... So the precious child actually did nothing wrong. Still a lot of people died in the aftermath of his deeds and it haunted him ever since. I guess it'll turn out to be a similar story with Vanitas.)

From the general characteristics we've been shown thus far, even more parallels arise. Both characters are emotionally and physically traumatized, abused and mistreated, and therefore act distant, happy-go-lucky and sometimes ruthless.

They don’t value their lifes, either, and have been ready to give up on themselves multiple times.

Neither of them can deal with open affection and care, for they don't consider themselves worthy of it and refuse to view the people around them as more than mere pawns.

This behaviour is also mirrored in how they treat women- both act chivalrous, flirtatious and deeply committed on the outside, but who's gonna by this, I ask?? It’s all but an act serving an ulteriour motive.

In general, both seem to look for atonement and forgiveness. This was what saved Vincent in the end, and I'll be damned, if it won't save Vanitas, as well. Just think about Noe's words at the end of Memoir 18. Now we'll just have to wait and see, what kind of salvation that'll turn out to be.

Which leads me to the next part... (please bear with me, who ever reads this till the end get's all my gratitude and a years worth of fictional cookies).

Noe and Gil... frankly I didn't find as many parallels here, as with the previous two, but some still came to mind. (If any of you guys has something to add, please message me, I'm dying to hear your thoughts)

First thing here again is both of them being orphans with a somewhat tragic past, that still turned out to be the most precious cinnamon rolls.

Both have a strong need to protect and act as a shield due to certain physical traits (Gil was able to take more or less any hit due to being a Baskerville, while Noe is a fucking Vampire).

The two of them are also portrayed as more or less naïve and sometimes simple minded, yet head strong and generally kind hearted.

We know, that Gilbert's mind has been manipulated and tempered with and that he was bound to his master's will and frankly, I wouldn't be too surprised if that turned out to be true for Noe as well. His “teacher” is shady as fuck.

By the way, Noe had been more than once shown with hands reaching out for him from the shadows in official art...

Like here, e.g.:

In this case those are specifically his teacher's hands. You know who else had often been shown like that? Oz. And Gilbert. In Oz's case those hands longing for him represent Jack, in Gil's case Glen Baskerville. (Sorry, can't find the pic I'm looking for right now... Oh wait... there it is:

This might be a little far fetched, but maybe it's a hint, that Noe as well is bound tightly by his past? Maybe he, too, is a vessel for some ominous entity?? We'll know for sure some day.

I guess I could pull some more things out of my arse right now, but it's getting late on my end and this post is already sooo fucking long. (Sorry, not sorry.) But I think I got the major issues covered.

So, if you've read all of this: Here is your cookie! You're a precious being and deserve all the love you can get!

That's it guys, TGA.

#vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #vanitas no shuki #les memoires de vanitas #vanitas #noe #Pandora Hearts #vincent nightray #gilbert nightray #character study #jun mochizuki #memoire 14

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briebysabs · 11 months

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PH ~Complaints~

This is the first of several pieces I will be making about this series. Reading Pandora hearts was an experience to say the least and I wanted to organize my thoughts into separate categories, because it’s too much to post out normally. Also I’m insane and I think it’ll be fun for me at least. These posts will contain spoilers but maybe it’ll spark people’s love for the series. Maybe it’ll get people to buy the manga volumes. Maybe the stars will align and it manifests an anime reboot (delusional).

With that out of the way, we will start with my complaints and nitpicks of the series. Which isn't a lot but there will be explaining to do here. As a disclaimer, these are things that I found worth mentioning and may not be any issues you had reading. I am going off my initial reading of ph too so if I miss anything, don’t come at me lol.

-> The most notable complaint I need to talk about first is early ph. But I bring it up because this is the main thing that can turn people away from the series. “The early chapters are slow” is a complaint I heard before starting ph. Upon looking back, it wasn’t necessarily slow for me and I enjoyed those parts. But when reading, it was chaotic and felt like nothing was moving. It felt like we were rushing to nowhere. I took several breaks because it was so overwhelming. And I wasn’t reading them physically but off of sites, I know a lot of you remember Bezarius, Liam, Shalon lol. The wonky translations in the early chapters aren’t mochijun’s fault of course, but it didn’t help matters for me.

So much information was jam-packed with an already intricate story. And granted, later on in the 50s-60s chaps, the world makes more sense. But when you haven’t gotten to that point, it’s a lot to take in. You can compare early parts of ph and vnc to see exactly what I mean. VnC’s introductory chapters are much more polished. And some stories work better that way but in ph’s case for me, the direction wasn’t clear. I mean you know the objective, finding Alice’s memories but after that it was just a bunch of “huh???” It wasn't until we met Elliot and Leo, eventually Rufus that everything became more coherent. And you can argue, “yeah you’re supposed to be confused” which is valid but it was a bit messy for me, and I know it's inspired by Alice in Wonderland.

But not only was it confusing and can be perceived as slow (though again not for me), these chapters are long. Certainly not a complaint, I loved having long chapters. But if you’re confused af, you feel as though the plot isn’t moving, and you have these long chapters to add. I see why people may drop the series because “it’s too convoluted and the author doesn’t know what they’re trying to say.” I don’t agree with that but I understand if they weren’t able to go past chapter 35 or something. But we all must remember this was mochijun's first real series. So I understand as well why its beginnings aren't that grounded and can forgive that.

->The second complaint is that there wasn't enough characterization of the Baskervilles squad (as in Lottie and her gang I'm excluding Zwei here) as individuals. What do I mean by this? You can say “well they weren’t that important” which I kinda disagree with because they were the antagonists we were worrying about for half of the story as they searched for their leader Glen.

We got depth given to them as a group, we see that there is a genuine, familial bond. I wanted to know their past or backstories and the most we got from was Lily. You can say we got Lottie too but I don't know I was left wanting more. We know Doug and Fang got Lily’s tattoo in solidarity which is my favorite moment from the squad. But who are they y’know? Fang had such a cool design, how did he join the Baskervilles? Doug is a nothing character. I haven’t read the light novels so these questions could be answered there but having read the manga, we should’ve gotten more.

-> Going from that, the whole Glen thing. Again, might be explained more in the light novels but from manga content, I wish we got more explanations and lore. Who was the first Glen? Who is Levi? He’s someone who we deserved more insight into and what made him so detached.

-> I wish we had more chain on chain fights. I read somewhere that mochijun had struggles mapping out action scenes so they were kept to a minimum. But I think due to that, we don't get to see the true extent of these chains' powers. And yes, Break's condition prevented him from using his chain much. But Break and Vincent's dynamic was great, a final showdown between them with their chains would've been so cool. Mad Hatter vs. Demios we were robbed...

-> Isla Yura in general. Not gonna lie, I forgot he existed. I can respect the role he played, especially knowing now mochijun based Dr. Moreau off him. He was a worthy threat and his obsession with Jack makes sense. But his personality just wasn’t it and rubbed me the wrong way. Stereotypical queer antagonist from the 2000s, we did not need this.

->This might be a biased one but Cheshire should've been a prominent character. We see he’s important to Alice but we got a whole mini-arc with him in the beginning, him appearing in the Break backstory and then he's gone until the final 8 chapters. I also wish he behaved like the cat he’s inspired by. Sassy, mischievous with a dash of dark humor. (though now I say that, Oz does have some of that). There was just so much potential that we simply didn’t explore with him.

-> Speaking of such, Sharon and Ada were so underused. I was expected more from Sharon’s arc and her Eques chain is so cool but that didn’t happen. Every moment with Ada was fantastic but she’s mostly put to the side which sucks. Her relationship with Oz was lacking for me, he comes back from the Abyss and we do not see him think of Ada until 15 chapters later? Her overall reactions to Oz dying essentially after the finale, learning her father’s death, none of this is there. These two had potential, Sharon even being part of the main five, that wasn’t delved into.

-> Vincent and Ada. Okay, lemme break it down. I kinda love them, they didn’t get together which was sad but was the best choice to make. But I do question why this relationship exists. To be honest, until the last 14 chapters I thought she dropped them completely. I was wondering what was the point of making them a whole thing and having read to the end, I still kind of think that. We got two or three main interactions with them and then we just never got back to Vince/Ada until the finale. It was as though the plot simply couldn’t make time for them, it was tightly knit at this point and everything was heading for utter insanity. But then, we get the emotional climax of Vincent’s character. We get Ada telling Vincent “I forgive you”. It hits hard because Vince is a top 5 character for me. But in terms of their relationship, it didn’t feel earned. I don’t think it was developed enough to get such a heavy moment like this.

Their last encounter from what I remember was in the headhunter arc, Ada telling Vince she’ll always be by his side. And while we see he cares about her safety then, I don’t think that means what they have is strong enough to break the self-hatred Vincent has built up for years. Why did it have to be Ada? I know Gil wasn’t getting through to him but if he told Gil what’d he had done. That he indirectly caused the tragedy of Sablier, and Gil really said fuck it, held him down and screamed “I forgive you! The outcome might’ve been the same. Vincent respected Elliot. Vincent looked up to Jack. Vincent grew to care about Ada. But to me, the only person he loved in this world was Gil. And in his last moments, that is all he had. So this whole Vince/Ada thing, while I enjoy them and definitely needed more, at the end I doubt how necessary it was for either of their characters.

->At last, the ending. I love the ending, let’s get that out of the way. Two things I need to say though. One, it did conclude faster than it should’ve. It’s not to a degree where it significantly brings it down but we could have used 5, 6 more chapters. Chapter 104 should’ve been cut in half, 104 ends with “see you later Gilbert” and 105 is total epilogue. That way, the events of 104 get to sink in with the reader. Second, and I know you saw this coming, Reim marrying Sharon. This is the one thing I see most fans have an issue with for the ending and I completely agree, this did not make any sense. It felt like the biggest last minute decision. I think mochijun and the magazine had reached the end of their rope because no one got together in the end. Oz and Alice didn’t become canon really, Gil is too gay, Elliot’s dead so we couldn’t even get elleo implied canon.

(Though you can make a whole other thread arguing how their entire relationship already was from how intimate they were) We all knew Rufus wasn’t gonna marry Sheryl, Vince and Ada went their separate ways. So it was just “alright, um….someone’s gotta get with someone.” And from what I know, there’s no artwork or moment in the series that hints in the slightest that this would happen. We never get a teasing moment from Break about them, Reim and Sharon are friends but the main connection between them is Break. I don't buy the whole "Break's death affecting Sharon deeply and she found comfort in Reim who shared her pain" because you don't have to marry someone who understands your grief. They can just be there for you as a friend. And there was no signs of romantic attraction AT ALL.

Which makes me doubt mochijun planned or even wanted to do this. Her hands might’ve been tied by higher-ups and she had no choice but to include this to deliver the finale she had in mind. This is pure speculation so I could be wrong but with that, this essay I guess, wraps up. There’s other stuff I may not have mentioned, like the jury thing is so absurd but I want to reserve that for my mochiverse theory. When it's all said and done, Pandora hearts is still an amazing series, mochijun has definitely improved as an author. My vnc-ph comparison post which may be after this one will elaborate on that in more detail. Thank you for listening to my rant. What are some complaints or nitpicks you had with ph?

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neversetyoufree · 2 years

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I've been thinking a bit about why Noé resonates so much with me as an ace person, and I'm realizing that, in addition to the depiction of his actual romantic relationships/attraction, the way that Noé fits into Vnc's erotic blood drinking symbolism is extremely familiar.

Overall, when someone in VnC gets their blood drunk consensually, it tends to be portrayed as part of a sexual relationship. Vanitas, for example, is attracted to Jeanne, and one part of that attraction is that he wants her to drink his blood. The blood drinking itself feels good, and he enjoys it, but his desire to be bit is not the entirety of their relationship, and Jeanne's eventual attraction to him is much the same. She likes drinking his blood, but she also pretty explicitly says she wants to sleep with him. It's a part of the whole.

Or, to give a non-VaniJeanne example, when Veronica starts going into detail about her "fling" with Marquis Machina, Domi refers to it as Veronica talking about "her sex life." So while we don't see everything she says about the encounter, I think the fact of the joking censorship itself implies that Veronica's describing something more graphic than the blood drinking we do see in other scenes. Beyond the blood drinking itself and how it feels, the broader context of the act is portrayed as sexual (and often part of a sexual relationship).

And then we have Noé.

Unlike almost everyone else in the series, when Noé talks about his desire to drink blood, it is completely abstracted out of its sexual context. When he gets The Blood Talk from his teacher, he says that he likes drinking blood because it tastes good, and though he's grown into an adult since that point, his reasoning doesn't seem to have changed. The implications of Louis's "sweet talk" suggestion (you have to charm/seduce someone before they'll let you do this physical thing with them) go completely over his head even in the present.

Furthermore, when he does drink Domi's blood, he does so completely without the further sexual context shown elsewhere. Mochijun does not shy away from showing us when characters are attracted to one another (even when they're not couples), and though Noé's perhaps a bit more complicated, since we know he struggles to identify/understand the feelings of attraction he does have, it is never once suggested that he finds Dominique attractive.

Noé enjoys an act that is objectively a bit sexual (given the physical acts/sensations involved), and that clearly has an erotic context for others who do it, but he enjoys it for more or less non-sexual reasons. He's interested in something erotic because he enjoys the physical act (the taste) of it, and probably also the general closeness/connection, but he shows no sexual attraction to his partner.

And let me tell you, for more sex-favorable ace people, that whole previous paragraph has to sound pretty familiar. Because while blood drinking doesn't work as a 1:1 parallel to real world sex, given that actual sex also exists as a separate but related option for Vnc characters, "engaging in sex-acts without the need for sexual attraction" is just. what ace people do. And so to people familiar with that experience, Noé's whole weirdly non-sexual relationship to blood starts to feel extremely ace-coded.

Even with Vanitas, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Noé's relationship to wanting Vani's blood also really resonates with how some ace people do experience attraction. Because again, we're never given any particular indication that Noé finds Vanitas sexually attractive, or even particularly good looking. Even accounting for the fact that queer-coding might have to be subtler or the fact that Noé's bad at recognizing his feelings, it's just not there. I'd even argue that there's better evidence of Vanitas finding Noé attractive than vice versa.

Yet, despite all that, Noé really wants Vanitas's blood. Not only that, but he wants Vanitas's blood in a way that is inextricably tied to his desire to understand him as a person. He wants him because his blood smells good, and also because he wants to see his memories, and this intense desire for physical intimacy and understanding (completely absent of sexual attraction) works really well as a metaphor for what attraction can feel like as an ace person. The metaphor, again, isn't 1:1, and it doesn't apply to every kind of ace experience, but still. Here's a character who wants to do something erotic with someone he's not sexually attracted to, and he wants to do it because 1: he thinks he'll enjoy the physical act, and 2: he thinks it'll further his relationship with/help him better understand the other person involved.

That is a really good representation of why some ace people are drawn to sex within romantic relationships.

And while in any other case I'd insist that suggesting Mochijun's queercoding is an accident is a bit insulting, I honestly have no idea what to make of this. I have no clue how known/visible asexuality is among people in Japan, but I know that in my own experience with American media, intentionally ace-coded characters are incredibly rare, so I struggle to think that I might be so lucky as to find one in shonen manga of all places. At the same time though, vnc is a series filled with a lot of different kinds of queer coding (and occasionally straight-up queerness), so if anyone was going to do it, I suppose it would be Mochijun.

But intentional or not, it's really striking to me just how well Noé's relationship to blood works as a metaphor for being interested in sexual acts as an asexual person, which I think is why so many of us end up reading him and saying "hey same." Even if you don't sit down to unpack all the symbolism, his experience is just. familiar.

#and that's not even getting into the more general queercoding of his archiviste status #and the way that he's been made to feel deviant and ashamed because of it #but that's a topic for another day #also yes this brain spiral was prompted by that stupid 'secret third thing' post I made the other day #sometimes shitposts lead to revelations I guess #vnc #vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #the ace agenda #noé archiviste #noé archiviste my beloved #english major hours #oh and side note: I don't bring up Jean-Jacques and Chloé in this post bc their relationship is also kinda weird and mold breaking #given the fact that they've been locked alone together in a castle for like 100 years #and the fact that they don't know any other vampires ('cept for Chloé briefly in the past) and know almost nothing about vampire society #and the fact that both of them pull noncon stuff on noé #I do not think they work as a reference point for standard vampire behavior lmao #Noé arqueueviste

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neversetyoufree · 2 years

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Sorry to ask, but do you have some meta or opinion about what could be going on regarding Vanitas hourglass earring? It is empty in some panels and then goes back to being full of sand at the bottom.

I don't know if you've read Pandora Hearts, but it reminds me a little of some marks some characters have that indicated how many times could they used certain abilities before dying, or turning into something more twisted and inhuman.

Oh anon, never apologize for asking!

Although, before I really answer, I might have to ask you (or others that know) to point out what panels show his earring as specifically empty? Because I know you don't see the sand clearly every time, but I've always just interpreted that as an artistic shorthand, rather than something particularly meaningful. If there are close/detailed shots that vary with whether the sand is shown, though, that opinion might change.

However, though I'm not too inclined (right now) to read into when we can/can't see the sand in a given panel, I do think the placement of the sand at the bottom has meaning. Aside from it just being where the sand would practically end up in an earring like that, it also works really well as a Vanitas symbol. I think I've talked about this before, but Vnc, especially where Vanitas and Luna are concerned, is filled with references to the Vanitas painting movement. Those paintings are all about reminders of the inevitability of death and the vanity/pointlessness of earthly pleasures in the face of it, and death is kind of Vanitas (the human man)'s whole Thing.

In other words, Vanitas is going to die. The first chapter (and later ominous foreshadowing) assures us that his death is a foregone conclusion. As such, an hourglass with the sand at the bottom works really well as a symbol for him. If the sand has all already run out (which, whenever we see it, it has), then his time has run out as well. The ever-present earring serves as a reminder that Vanitas's death is inescapable. It's a memento-mori!

Also, I do want to point out that, before it was Vanitas's earring, that hourglass was on Luna's bracelet. Vanitas seems to have taken/inherited it along with their book and title, which ties the hourglass (the run-out hourglass, a symbol of death) to the role of "Vanitas" itself. It marks whoever holds the book/name as a symbol of death for vampires, but also marks the oncoming and inevitable death of "Vanitas" themselves. Luna has been dead since before the story even began, and symbolically, so is Vanitas. Their time has all run out.

Then, cementing this even further, the one other time I can remember seeing an hourglass in Vnc that isn't that bracelet/earring is on the inner cover of Volume 1. The whole frame on the front cover of v1 is covered in images (bones, fruit, flowers, gold) straight out of a classic Vanitas painting. And though we can't see the bottom of the frame on the front cover (Vani's leg is in the way), the exact same frame is replicated on the inner cover:

And guess what's at the bottom of the frame. An hourglass! So even though hourglasses were slightly less common in Vanitas paintings than some other symbols (though they were very much still present), I do think this confirms we're meant to take the hourglass as part of the Vanitas (painting) symbolism in Vnc.

So though I have read Pandora Hearts, and I'm familiar with Mochijun's fondness for inscribing countdowns on characters' bodies, I don't think that's what the hourglass is doing. It's not that the sand running out marks how much time he has while he's still human. The fact that the sand has already run out reminds us always that he has been pre-determined to die.

In fact, I think that rather than the hourglass, the cracking scar pattern on Vanitas and Misha's arms actually fulfills the exact symbolic purpose that you're talking about. We know that it spread when Vanitas used a lot of power in Gévaudan, and we know that using the book's power is what's going to cause Vanitas's eventual transformation, so the representation is pretty obviously linked. Plus, it looks like whatever's happening with the cracks on Vanitas's arm is further along on Misha, and Misha seems to be further along in losing his humanity (judging by what happens when the book goes wrong in 54 and 54.5), so once again, we have that correlation.

#I feel like I may have gotten a bit off topic from answering your question in the middle there #but the Vanitas (painting) symbolism in Vnc is one of my favorite things to talk about #and I haven't finished/posted my long volume 1 cover analysis yet #so I couldn't resist the temptation to talk about that. since it was at least a little bit relevant.#vnc #vanitas no carte #vnc spoilers #the case study of vanitas #english major hours #vanitas my beloved #ID in alt text #ask #anon #also forgive me for not putting this under a readmore #but for some reason tumblr won't let me format the images the way I wanted if the readmore is there #and I think that having two full length manga pages stacked on top of each other in the middle of a post.#is even more annoying than scrolling past a bunch of text #long post

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neversetyoufree · 2 years

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I think the thing that gets me about VaNoé and their relationship in canon is that, at least from what I can remember, nobody ever really says the words friend or friendship about them

VnC is so very much about their relationship and about watching them grow closer over the course of the story, and if Mochijun wanted to, it would be really easy to turn into a power of friendship type story. All she’d have to do is draw more emphasis to the fact that Noé doesn’t have many friends and Vanitas has never had a best friend before, and with just a couple of very small tweaks, she could put a lot more emphasis on the platonic. And it could be really good that way too! It could be really sweet to see Noé thinking about how he “hasn’t had a real best friend since Louis” or something along those lines, and it would still totally work for the eventual tragedy too. Friends being forced to turn against friends for a tragic death is some prime sad shonen content. Plus then we’d get the angle that Vanitas having a real friend is making him into a better person, which is also classic good shonen. There’s no big reason for Mochijun to not go down this path, but she doesn’t.

Noé talks about how Domi is his “precious friend,” and he and Roland talk about their “friendship” with each other, but with Noé and Vanitas, the language is always more vague. People like Roland say Vani and Noé “get along well,” but the kind of good relationship they have is rarely (if ever) specified. Even in the most recent arc, when Noé is yelling at Vanitas for disregarding their relationship, he never drops the “friend” word.

And it’s not that this necessarily means anything, but in a story that could otherwise push the platonic, importance of friendship angle, the absence of all that is rather conspicuous. The ambiguous, unspecified nature of their love and closeness is a big part of what makes them feel so queercoded.

#vnc #vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #vnc spoilers #vanoé #noé Archiviste #vanitas #the vanoé agenda #I suspect this could probably also be said for Jeanne and Dominique #but I’d have to go back and reread all their scenes to be sure lol #english major hours

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neversetyoufree · 3 years

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I apologize in advance, because I want to talk about your last anon ask on your blog and how MochiJun queerbaited in PH? I only noticed it's queerness after being told about and re-read it. But it matters to only a small part of the cast. VNC on the other hand is just feels LGBTQ+ in everything. Even from the themes themselves (Paris, vampires, male duo...), so I feel like it's supposed to throw back to those queercoded media you mentioned. It feels intended, while PH felt more accidental.

Oh no need to apologize; I'm more than happy to keep chatting about this, so long as nobody's being unnecessarily confrontational and dismissive like that last anon was.

And yes! I completely agree with you.

A reply on that last post pointed out the subtext around Eliot and Leo, which had honestly slipped my mind, but you're right! It's subtle, and though I absolutely could be wrong about this, esp since it's been a while since I read their chapters, I personally doubt that the suggestion of romance between them was purposeful on MochiJun's part. What queerness there is in PH comes more from just. generally passionate relationships, I think, but it's not really a series about romance. Like, Oz+Gil and Eliot+Leo are both explorations of a similar kind of devotion in a servant/friend relationship, and stories about absolute devotion to another person are almost always gonna end up feeling romantic (unless there's a special circumstance like Oz and Gil's ages).

And assuming I've forgotten other subtle queerness like Eliot and Leo, I'm gonna go ahead and guess that those relationships in PH fall into a similar category. Love and devotion just tend to be read as romantic, even if that's not the intent of the author or the focus of the story. And like, that's all perfectly fine, but I don't think that's the case in VnC.

Unlike Pandora Hearts, Vanitas no Carte is very much a series about romance. It’s not the main focus by any means, but it’s undeniably an important part of the story. A fair bit of time has been spent of establishing Domi, Vanitas, and Jeanne’s feelings for one-another (and Noé, in Domi’s case), and given that it’s the one thing we get specific narration about other than Vanitas’s eventual death, it seems likely that Noé’s as-yet-unrealized romantic feelings (whomever they may be for) will play an important part in the upcoming story. So, in this case, it makes much more sense to read queer-coding more as the possible groundwork for a real romance, since that’s something the series is actually interested in exploring.

Plus, just like you said, the whole world of this story is very much inspired by queer media. Vampires in literature have been ambiguously gay (or bi) since the days of Carmilla and Dracula. The Vani/Noé duo setup that the manga centers around is partly inspired by Holmes and Watson. Edit: MochiJun even said in a recent interview that a lot of her interest in vampires comes from Interview with a Vampire, which is not a particularly straight piece of media. And there’s all that casual background queerness (Domi, Luna, Dante’s teasing Vanitas...) that helps further this theme.

The hints at queer romance absolutely feel much more intentional here than in PH (and more intentional than just about every other shonen work, too). It’s hard to put properly into words sometimes, and this could change before the ending, but to me at least, it just doesn’t feel like a Straight story in the way that most other things do.

#ask #anon #vanitas no carte #vnc #the case study of vanitas #ahh this got long again #I'm so much more long winded than I mean to be honestly #there's just too many words in my brain #meta #the gay agenda

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