Can't believe I am saying this...

but Loki is somehow better than Velma.

Yes. That fucking garbage Marvel show that actively shits on the title character and said character's fan base, as well as genderfluid folk; that has abuse, incest and fascism apologism sewn within the very blood stream of the series, is somehow better than Velma.

can people shut up about wizard game

Worst-written TV shows I’ve seen in my short life so far:

-Girls (HBO)

(only for a few episodes, I had raw hatred for every single character in it)

-Hannibal (NBC)

(I sat through all of that godawful AO3 fanfic -Michael Mann, Jonathan Demme, & Ridley Scott movies are superior adaptations)

-Yellowstone

(Only for a few episodes, mighty Christ, how I hate the Dutton family except for their abused lawyer/ slave)

-Death Note

(the first show I regretted watching as I got older, not a single likable or interesting character in there- kill em all)

-American Horror Story after HOTEL

(only the teasers & intros are good after that)

Shows like Velma & Big Mouth were way too obvious- those shows are so bad that it’s not even worth making fun of ‘em.

…Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are on the thinnest ice you can imagine.

Watch Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Fargo (the movie & the show), The Sopranos, True Detective (seasons 1 & 4), I Think You Should Leave, The Boys, Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Cuphead Show, & The Regular Show instead.

drew a cute lil velma to cleanse my mind from that godawful show

After looking into the writers predicament and how it all led to the strike it made me realize that perhaps one of the reasons for the decline in quality media is becuase writers have been given less and less incentives to create good content, do you have any thoughts?

I don't think it would be exactly incentive. I would think in a certain amount of cases it would be down more to demotivation. Generally, writers for film and TV and such genuinely WANT to make a good story and, much like fanfic writers and fanartists, will do their best for very little thanks simply because it's what they DO. But not ever show or movie is going to be a passion project, in fact most of them won't. And if you're working for Disney especially, who owns 38% of all film (not counting TV and other media) so you most likely WILL end up wroking for Disney, you are going to have a TON of studio meddling on every level of writing.

As I mentioned in the other post, Mr Rick And Morty (sorry I don't know his name and I'm too lazy to check) wrote the story for the Dr Strange and the Multiverse of madness at LEAST twice when the movie's FIRST story and script was scrapped by a previous writer. The first script he wrote was heavily rewritten and changed and reworked by the studio. and then the studio just THREW OUT that script and he had write a brand NEW script 2 weeks before shooting started using all the props, sets, outfits and CG segments they had already made. And the thing is this is now STANDARD PRACTICE in working on a big budget Disney film.

Part of the reason the Barbie movie is written as well as it is, is because Mattel were almost completely hands off with the film's writing. (the only changes I heard about was them censoring one Barbie saying the word "Motherfucker" which they censored in the film by putting a Mattel sticker over her mouth) and various other things like the removal of a narration in one scene and one or two jokes were cut. You know! NORMAL screenwriting practices!

But Disney is so paranoid and controlling with literally everything they put out it is a death sentence for any kind of creativity. Even ignoring the fact that they hire brand new writers who they can control and push around easier, I imagine even if you were NOT a new writer just happy for a big break, it must be extremely demotivating to try and write a good story when you know Disney is just gonna shred it to ribbons.

This is absolutely not the ONLY reason of course. Velma's writing is so godawful because people who had only worked in live action cable comedy thought they could do the exact same thing for an animated show and it would work without knowing anything about the medium they were working in because they were arrogant, lacked restraint, and had gotten where they were thanks to being friends with the right people. HGS is so badly written because Raye Rodriquez had shopped around his story idea to EVERYONE and got rejected by all of them until Crunchyroll needed fodder to justify opening up its own studio to create "originals". Many times modern cartoons are badly written because the actual people writing the show are animators who haven't had any formal training or education in creative writing.

There are a thousand and one reasons for WHY something ends up badly written. But as for why we have gotten SO MUCH that is badly written recently I would chalk up to studio execs and the business side of Hollywood choking the creativity out of the writing process in an attempt to maximize profits in the short term.

That's an EXTREME simplification but that would be my opinion. Hell the only reason AI writing is even a conversation regarding film and TV is because it's the kind of thing these studio execs are SALIVATING over the thought of. A writer they have 100% control over that they don't have to pay and don't have to deal with all that "creative vision" or "artistic expression" bullshit which they don't like because it represents risk to sure fire income.

because most Studio Execs are businessmen who have no concept of creativity whatsoever, have no idea what being creative even means, and yet they think because they know how to make money in a corporate sense, they know how to monetise creativity to maximum efficiency.

It's like a fisherman getting rid of all the fish in the sea because they're getting in the way of him monetising the ocean.

Anyway this ask is a mess because this is a complex issue I am trying to express a simplified opinion on. But I hope you get what I mean.

I feel like when hazbin hotel drop out it’s going to be Velma 2.0 and if you don’t know what that is basically it’s the adult scooby doo cartoon created by mindy Kalem where Velma is the main protagonist and lets just say it was so bad EVERYONE on YouTube rip the show apart hell even even people on Twitter agree the show was garbage and disrespectful to the original creators of the scooby doo series that’s how hazbin hotel is going to be a godawful adult cartoon I can’t wait for vize big Twitter breakdown where she blocks everyone

I was not impressed with “Happy day in Hell” and I’m really irritated that we are only getting 10second clips, frames, and gifs, but not a single trailer.

Even now I still don’t understand what this show is going to be about

Stay tuned I guess?

How to do a Better Velma Show

No, I haven't watched HBO's Velma because it sucks ass based on the reviews, and I don't wanna boost its ratings by hate-watching. So, instead, I'm gonna provide a few ideas that I have to make a better show centred around Velma. These are only my ideas but feel free to give your opinions on them.

Make Velma flawed, but likeable and relatable. No character is perfect, but it's fine to include a few flaws in some characters. For her, maybe make her just a little bossy, regarding Shaggy, but not to the point of insufferable, in fact make her learn what being a good leader is, while keeping in touch with her famous characteristics. Make her a bit too quick thinking, but eventually have her learn better critical analysis when it comes to solving mysteries.

Race swaps are fine; include them if you want, but leave out the goddamn stereotypes, e.g. Velma being a pretentious, know-it-all southeast Asian girl. Like, not all Asians are like this!

Cut down on the gore and sex scenes. This is when they were set in HIGH SCHOOL, right??? So, why does it have a scene of some girls showering with their lady parts covered? I mean, come on, I know it's supposed to be for adults, but don't sexualise kids! Or keep bringing up peepee jokes in relation to some kid! (I'm talking about the one with Fred) Plus, as someone who draws gore, gore doesn't equal "mature show". Putting gore in a show for shock value just comes off as lazy. I also recommend either having the murder victims killed off in a "clean" way (no violence like removing their brains, maybe something mysterious) or maybe have them kidnapped or something. Yeah, Mystery Incorporated had a lot of death but didn't go over the top with its violent scenes.

Hire better voice actors. The voice acting in this show is terrible, particularly for those voicing the side characters and Mindy Kaling. :/ The other main characters, I feel they could be better, but the character with the most tolerable voice acting is Norville, voiced by Sam Richardson. He could sound a little goofy like Shaggy, but not too much. Speaking of...

Give my man Shaggy more respect. He doesn't have to get with Velma, but he also doesn't need to be treated this shitty. Like, maybe have her be touched by Shaggy's confession, but politely let him down and apologise for not being able to return those feelings. Also, make him a dog lover, a foodie, and take out the "junkie" jokes. Make him smart yet goofy as well!

Fred could've SERIOUSLY been done better. -_- I don't mind him being written as a rich kid, but maybe have him be a kind guy who's eager to be independent and start his own trap making business. An idea his own dad looks down upon. Have him be fed up hanging around with his douchebag jock friends and start hanging with the Mystery Gang slowly over time. Oh, and a personal choice, make him neurodivergent. :D

Make Velma neurodivergent as well. Just saying. UWU

Take out the godawful meta humour and pop culture references. I don't need to explain why, but I will say that Mindy Kaling should've actually put a lot more effort into her writing.

Have Daphne be only a slight snob, but not a bitch. In fact, have her eventually diss the status quo and go hang with the Mystery Gang and embrace her goofy self like in some other incarnations, e.g. Be Cool, Scooby Doo. Oh, and have her be part of the karate club.

Maybe have Velma's parents be more loving and perhaps diss the "missing mother" subplot. Maybe have them be divorced and Velma missing the time when they used to be together.

Somehow introduce Scooby Doo into this. The gang isn't the same without him.

More convincing platonic and romantic chemistry between characters. Doesn't matter if they're hetero or LGBT, MAKE THEM WORK.

BETTER DEPICTIONS OF PANIC ATTACKS.

Don't hire Mindy Kaling on the team. XD

OK, these are my thoughts on how to make a better Velma show! Feel free to add your own input as well!

Okay so I actually watched the Velma show and I. I don’t entirely hate it! Yes, the opening monologue fuckin SUCKED and the writing is just sorta… NOT GOOD, but it is an absolutely GORGEOUS show visually and you can really tell the artists put their hearts and souls into it. Edit: please pirate it if you do decide to watch it, don’t give HBO your money. And if you have the opportunity, please watch Mysteries Incorporated instead! It is a genuinely much better show! Velma might be pretty, but it still has all the major pitfalls of bad adult swim content, and should be treated as such. And keep in mind if you decide to read this that I am an incurable optimist who is good at seeing the best in bad content. Anyway.

More thoughts under the cut:

I feel like I started enjoying it a lot more when I realized that these characters are shitty because they’re teenagers and they haven’t really had a chance to figure themselves out yet. Fred started as a shitty misogynist, but that’s because he was trying to impress his absolutely godawful father and earn his love by conforming to his expectations. The more he starts hanging out with Velma, the more he starts shunning those toxic masculinity teachings, and starts becoming the genuine, thoughtful, kind himbo we all know and love.

Daphne starts out as a standard “mean girl,” but that’s because she has abandonment issues from her birth parents leaving her and Velma doesn’t let her say anything before making her own assumptions about Daphne’s situation. When in reality, Daphne’s an adrenaline junkie, trying to figure out who her birth parents are in an effort to figure out why she’s so WEIRD - why she loves danger so much, why her hair’s this orange (?), why she’s so effortlessly manipulative and why she just feels like she doesn’t fit in. She has adventures of her own, selling drugs to afford a private investigator, exploring gem-filled caverns to find gangs who might know something, and she’s just. Interesting! Also, her relationship with Velma is really nuanced and fun to watch play out on screen. Because there is an intense mutual attraction, but they both know they’re not ready for a relationship like that until they can learn to be friends again, and they both respect that. And like, they talk about it! They’re both honest about their feelings for eachother, and I��m gonna admit, it’s a little refreshing to see. It’s not a “will they won’t they” so much as it is a “they’re not ready to and they know it”.

Speaking of Velma, she’s a cynical jerk who thinks she knows everything at first, but the more the show goes on, the more she learns to actually listen to other people and take other perspectives into account, and the more she realizes it’s okay to admit when you don’t know anything at all. Because she does screw up. A lot. The narrative in no way justifies her shitty opinions! She’s scared to admit when she doesn’t know something, but she’s slowly learning to accept the inherent mystery of everyday life. Which, is hard! She has a habit of assuming things to fill in the gaps, and like. On one level, it makes her a huge asshole, but on the other hand… she kind of Literally Has To.

Velma, in this show, has a disability where whenever she tries to solve a mystery, there is the possibility that she could start having potentially fatal trauma-induced hallucinations. Shock and/or distractions seem to be the best way to combat these hallucinogenic episodes. The characters around her treat her disability with respect, even as they show concern for her health and wellbeing. They are willing to do almost whatever it takes to combat these hallucinations. Methods used include Norville making her laugh, Daphne giving her her first kiss, and her father telling her he believes her. These don’t always work, and sometimes they’re so intense her heart actually stops and they have to resuscitate her. At the same time, the characters don’t let their concern turn to pity, and they aren’t afraid to put her in her place when she goes too far, because she IS a jerk! The narrative knows this!!! It doesn’t excuse it! Her need to assume she knows everything means she is HORRIBLE at taking the experiences of others into account, or admitting when she’s wrong about something! But she is slowly learning that she doesn’t know everything. That the experiences of others differ from her own experience, and that she CAN be wrong, and that’s OKAY.

Norville starts out insecure and a pushover, but the more the show goes on the more he learns to stand up for himself - and then when he takes it too far and tries to be a “bad boy,” he acknowledges his mistakes and starts learning how to find a healthy balance. His dad’s a guidance counselor, and his mom’s the school principal, and I think he’s becoming sort of a leader in his own right. Norville doesn’t start out as a shit person, so his character arc is more nuanced, but I think he’s learning and growing just as much as everyone else.

Overall, these characters are misguided, underdeveloped, horny, stubborn, confused, deeply affected by the adults in their lives, and learning how to be better people, just like any teenager. The more the show goes on, the more they all grow. And the more they grow, the closer they get as people. The more they care about eachother, learn to listen to one another, and I think they’re slowly becoming the gang we all know and love.

They’re just… taking their time with telling the story of how it happened. Although I will admit that the story’s pretty muddled by the weird jokes and violence interspersed, though that’s unfortunately pretty par for the course for adult animation, so I’m able to ignore it for things like the stunning set design, animation, and hallucination sequences.

Also, I love Daphne’s moms! They’re sweet, they’re nerdy, they’re shit cops but like in a Deputy Durland and Sheriff Blubbs kinda way, and I feel like they’re exactly the kind of vaguely-stupid but endlessly doting adults that fit right in at a community like Crystal Cove. And adding onto that, the background characters all have such good designs! I love pausing the show and staring at the character designs in crowd shots, because every single design is memorable in their own ways, which makes the community as a whole feel real and diverse, like everyone’s the main character of their own stories too.

I feel like this is a show that put its worst foot forward, and I will admit that I honestly think they did that on purpose. Which sucks, because once you get past that initial “oh god how dare they,” there’s something good there. Yeah, the writing kinda sucks, but you can see where they’re going with it, you can follow along with the mystery elements, and this show is just so genuinely stunning in its visuals. It’s worse than a lot of Scooby doo media, but better than a lot of adult swim shows out there, and it IS genuinely going somewhere. The good parts of it are in the long game, if you’re patient enough to see it through.

I will admit I skipped the first cold open, because that opening monologue just made me cringe so much it hurt, and I don’t feel like I missed anything, sooo… yeah. I will also admit there are a lot of lines I really hate. The language these characters use feels like it’s designed to be as rage-inducing as possible, or at least are used by people who don’t entirely understand what these words mean. But also, like. Velma in this show does feel like someone who sometimes uses words she doesn’t entirely understand, but is too stubborn to admit she doesn’t entirely understand them? Which. I have met teenagers like that. Like, I’m not saying this show is amazing, or that it doesn’t deserve a lot of the criticism it’s been getting. What I’m saying is that it’s not ALL bad.

Please pirate it, because HBO max doesn’t deserve our money after what it did to animation, but maybe be a little less vitriolic in the hatred for it? It’s cynical, sure, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things to like about it. I don’t know, maybe it’s just my unrelenting optimism shining through, or maybe I just subconsciously love finding the best in bad media, but I think this show DOES have something genuine to offer. Maybe all it has to offer is amazing animation, extremely well-done set design, really fun and diverse character design, absolutely phenomenal color palettes and compositing, and a small semblance of character development, but you know what? Maybe that’s enough for me.

what i am learning is that many, many people are infinitely more creative and can think of much better modern scooby doo adaptations than the folks behind that godawful velma show

Well, I finally bit the bullet and [PIRATED] the pilot of Velma. And by Jove, this show was as bad as I expected, arguably worst. I don’t have time to write a whole review, but none of the characters felt like the Scooby gang, every joke was just “oh, we’re self-aware and different,” and I’d say I laughed maybe once (at the godawful animation.)

TL:DR, will not be watching episode 2.

there's no way in hell I'm watching that godawful new Velma show but I certainly enjoy watching videos about what a fucking dogshit dumpster fire it is

clicking on any clips of that godawful velma show with fred bc I want to hear glenns voice