By: Jon Haidt
Published: Mar 9, 2023
In May 2014, Greg Lukianoff invited me to lunch to talk about something he was seeing on college campuses that disturbed him. Greg is the president of FIRE (the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression), and he has worked tirelessly since 2001 to defend the free speech rights of college students. That almost always meant pushing back against administrators who didn’t want students to cause trouble, and who justified their suppression of speech with appeals to the emotional “safety” of students—appeals that the students themselves didn’t buy. But in late 2013, Greg began to encounter new cases in which students were pushing to ban speakers, punish people for ordinary speech, or implement policies that would chill free speech. These students arrived on campus in the fall of 2013 already accepting the idea that books, words, and ideas could hurt them. Why did so many students in 2013 believe this, when there was little sign of such beliefs in 2011?
Greg is prone to depression, and after hospitalization for a serious episode in 2007, Greg learned CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). In CBT you learn to recognize when your ruminations and automatic thinking patterns exemplify one or more of about a dozen “cognitive distortions,” such as catastrophizing, black-and-white thinking, fortune telling, or emotional reasoning. Thinking in these ways causes depression, as well as being a symptom of depression. Breaking out of these painful distortions is a cure for depression.
What Greg saw in 2013 were students justifying the suppression of speech and the punishment of dissent using the exact distortions that Greg had learned to free himself from. Students were saying that an unorthodox speaker on campus would cause severe harm to vulnerable students (catastrophizing); they were using their emotions as proof that a text should be removed from a syllabus (emotional reasoning). Greg hypothesized that if colleges supported the use of these cognitive distortions, rather than teaching students skills of critical thinking (which is basically what CBT is), then this could cause students to become depressed. Greg feared that colleges were performing reverse CBT.
I thought the idea was brilliant because I had just begun to see these new ways of thinking among some students at NYU. I volunteered to help Greg write it up, and in August 2015 our essay appeared in The Atlantic with the title: The Coddling of the American Mind. Greg did not like that title; his original suggestion was “Arguing Towards Misery: How Campuses Teach Cognitive Distortions.” He wanted to put the reverse CBT hypothesis in the title.
After our essay came out, things on campus got much worse. The fall of 2015 marked the beginning of a period of protests and high-profile conflicts on campus that led many or most universities to implement policies that embedded this new way of thinking into campus culture with administrative expansions such as “bias response teams” to investigate reports of “microaggressions.” Surveys began to show that most students and professors felt that they had to self-censor. The phrase “walking on eggshells” became common. Trust in higher ed plummeted, along with the joy of intellectual discovery and sense of goodwill that had marked university life throughout my career.
Greg and I decided to expand our original essay into a book in which we delved into the many causes of the sudden change in campus culture. Our book focused on three “great untruths” that seemed to be widely believed by the students who were trying to shut down speech and prosecute dissent:
1. What doesn’t kill you makes you weaker
2. Always trust your feelings
3. Life is a battle between good people and evil people.
Each of these untruths was the exact opposite of a chapter in my first book, The Happiness Hypothesis, which explored ten Great Truths passed down to us from ancient societies east and west. We published our book in 2018 with the title, once again, of The Coddling of the American Mind. Once again, Greg did not like the title. He wanted the book to be called “Disempowered,” to capture the way that students who embrace the three great untruths lose their sense of agency. He wanted to capture reverse CBT.
The Discovery of the Gender-by-Politics Interaction
In September 2020, Zach Goldberg, who was then a graduate student at Georgia State University, discovered something interesting in a dataset made public by Pew Research. Pew surveyed about 12,000 people in March 2020, during the first month of the Covid shutdowns. The survey included this item: “Has a doctor or other healthcare provider EVER told you that you have a mental health condition?” Goldberg graphed the percentage of respondents who said “yes” to that item as a function of their self-placement on the liberal-conservative 5-point scale and found that white liberals were much more likely to say yes than white moderates and conservatives. (His analyses for non-white groups generally found small or inconsistent relationships with politics.)
I wrote to Goldberg and asked him to redo it for men and women separately, and for young vs. old separately. He did, and he found that the relationship to politics was much stronger for young (white) women. You can see Goldberg’s graph here, but I find it hard to interpret a three-way interaction using bar charts, so I downloaded the Pew dataset and created line graphs, which make it easier to interpret.
Here’s the same data, showing three main effects: gender (women higher), age (youngest groups higher), and politics (liberals higher). The graphs also show three two-way interactions (young women higher, liberal women higher, young liberals higher). And there’s an important three-way interaction: it is the young liberal women who are highest. They are so high that a majority of them said yes, they had been told that they have a mental health condition.
Figure 1. Data from Pew Research, American Trends Panel Wave 64. The survey was fielded March 19-24, 2020. Graphed by Jon Haidt.
In recent weeks—since the publication of the CDC’s report on the high and rising rates of depression and anxiety among teens—there has been a lot of attention to a different study that shows the gender-by-politics interaction: Gimbrone, Bates, Prins, & Keyes (2022), titled: “The politics of depression: Diverging trends in internalizing symptoms among US adolescents by political beliefs.” Gimbrone et al. examined trends in the Monitoring the Future dataset, which is the only major US survey of adolescents that asks high school students (seniors) to self-identify as liberal or conservative (using a 5-point scale). The survey asks four items about mood/depression. Gimbrone et al. found that prior to 2012 there were no sex differences and only a small difference between liberals and conservatives. But beginning in 2012, the liberal girls began to rise, and they rose the most. The other three groups followed suit, although none rose as much, in absolute terms, as did the liberal girls (who rose .73 points since 2010, on a 5-point scale where the standard deviation is .89).
Figure 2. Data from Monitoring the Future, graphed by Gimbrone et al. (2022). The scale runs from 1 (minimum) to 5 (maximum).
The authors of the study try to explain the fact that liberals rise first and most in terms of the terrible things that conservatives were doing during Obama’s second term, e.g.,
Liberal adolescents may have therefore experienced alienation within a growing conservative political climate such that their mental health suffered in comparison to that of their conservative peers whose hegemonic views were flourishing.
The progressive New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg took up the question and wrote a superb essay making the argument that teen mental health is not and must not become a partisan issue. She dismissed Gimbrone et al.’s explanation as having a poor fit with their own data:
Barack Obama was re-elected in 2012. In 2013, the Supreme Court extended gay marriage rights. It was hard to draw a direct link between that period’s political events and teenage depression, which in 2012 started an increase that has continued, unabated, until today.
After examining the evidence, including the fact that the same trends happened at the same time in Britain, Canada, and Australia, Goldberg concluded that “Technology, not politics, was what changed in all these countries around 2012. That was the year that Facebook bought Instagram and the word “selfie” entered the popular lexicon.”
Journalist Matt Yglesias also took up the puzzle of why liberal girls became more depressed than others, and in a long and self-reflective Substack post, he described what he has learned about depression from his own struggles involving many kinds of treatment. Like Michelle Goldberg, he briefly considered the hypothesis that liberals are depressed because they’re the only ones who see that “we’re living in a late-stage capitalist hellscape during an ongoing deadly pandemic w record wealth inequality, 0 social safety net/job security, as climate change cooks the world,” to quote a tweet from the Washington Post tech columnist Taylor Lorenz. Yglesias agreed with Goldberg and other writers that the Lorenz explanation—reality makes Gen Z depressed—doesn’t fit the data, and, because of his knowledge of depression, he focused on the reverse path: depression makes reality look terrible. As he put it: “Mentally processing ambiguous events with a negative spin is just what depression is.”
Yglesias tells us what he has learned from years of therapy, which clearly involved CBT:
It’s important to reframe your emotional response as something that’s under your control:
• Stop saying “so-and-so made me angry by doing X.”
• Instead say “so-and-so did X, and I reacted by becoming angry.”
And the question you then ask yourself is whether becoming angry made things better? Did it solve the problem?
Yglesias wrote that “part of helping people get out of their trap is teaching them not to catastrophize.” He then described an essay by progressive journalist Jill Filipovic that argued, in Yglesias’s words, that “progressive institutional leaders have specifically taught young progressives that catastrophizing is a good way to get what they want.”
Yglesias quoted a passage from Filipovic that expressed exactly the concern that Greg had expressed to me back in 2014:
I am increasingly convinced that there are tremendously negative long-term consequences, especially to young people, coming from this reliance on the language of harm and accusations that things one finds offensive are “deeply problematic” or even violent. Just about everything researchers understand about resilience and mental well-being suggests that people who feel like they are the chief architects of their own life — to mix metaphors, that they captain their own ship, not that they are simply being tossed around by an uncontrollable ocean — are vastly better off than people whose default position is victimization, hurt, and a sense that life simply happens to them and they have no control over their response.
I have italicized Filipovic’s text about the benefits of feeling like you captain your own ship because it points to a psychological construct with a long history of research and measurement: Locus of control. As first laid out by Julian Rotter in the 1950s, this is a malleable personality trait referring to the fact that some people have an internal locus of control—they feel as if they have the power to choose a course of action and make it happen, while other people have an external locus of control—they have little sense of agency and they believe that strong forces or agents outside of themselves will determine what happens to them. Sixty years of research show that people with an internal locus of control are happier and achieve more. People with an external locus of control are more passive and more likely to become depressed.
How a Phone-Based Childhood Breeds Passivity
There are at least two ways to explain why liberal girls became depressed faster than other groups at the exact time (around 2012) when teens traded in their flip phones for smartphones and the girls joined Instagram en masse. The first and simplest explanation is that liberal girls simply used social media more than any other group. Jean Twenge’s forthcoming book, Generations, is full of amazing graphs and insightful explanations of generational differences. In her chapter on Gen Z, she shows that liberal teen girls are by far the most likely to report that they spend five or more hours a day on social media (31% in recent years, compared to 22% for conservative girls, 18% for liberal boys, and just 13% for conservative boys). Being an ultra-heavy user means that you have less time available for everything else, including time “in real life” with your friends. Twenge shows in another graph that from the 1970s through the early 2000s, liberal girls spent more time with friends than conservative girls. But after 2010 their time with friends drops so fast that by 2016 they are spending less time with friends than are conservative girls. So part of the story may be that social media took over the lives of liberal girls more than any other group, and it is now clear that heavy use of social media damages mental health, especially during early puberty.
But I think there’s more going on here than the quantity of time on social media. Like Filipovic, Yglesias, Goldberg, and Lukianoff, I think there’s something about the messages liberal girls consume that is more damaging to mental health than those consumed by other groups.
The Monitoring the Future dataset happens to have within it an 8-item Locus of Control scale. With Twenge’s permission, I reprint one such graph from Generations showing responses to one of the items: “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” This item is a good proxy for Filipovic’s hypothesis about the disempowering effects of progressive institutions. If you agree with that item, you have a more external locus of control. As you can see in Figure 3, from the 1970s until the mid-2000s, boys were a bit more likely to agree with that item, but then girls rose to match boys, and then both sexes rose continuously throughout the 2010s—the era when teen social life became far more heavily phone-based.
Figure 3. Percentage of boys and girls (high school seniors) who agree with (or are neutral about) the statement “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” From Monitoring the Future, graphed by Jean Twenge in her forthcoming book Generations.
When the discussion of the gender-by-politics interaction broke out a few weeks ago, I thought back to Twenge’s graph and wondered what would happen if we broke up the sexes by politics. Would it give us the pattern in the Gimbrone et al. graphs, where the liberal girls rise first and most? Twenge sent me her data file (it’s a tricky one to assemble, across the many years), and Zach Rausch and I started looking for the interaction. We found some exciting hints, and I began writing this post on the assumption that we had a major discovery. For example, Figure 4 shows the item that Twenge analyzed. We see something like the Gimbrone et al. pattern in which it’s the liberal girls who depart from everyone else, in the unhealthy (external) direction, starting in the early 2000s.
Figure 4. Percentage of liberal and conservative high school senior boys (left panel) and girls (right panel) who agree with the statement “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” From Monitoring the Future, graphed by Zach Rausch.
It sure looks like the liberal girls are getting more external while the conservative girls are, if anything, trending slightly more internal in the last decade, and the boys are just bouncing around randomly. But that was just for this one item. We also found a similar pattern for a second item, “People like me don’t have much of a chance at a successful life.” (You can see graphs of all 8 items here.)
We were excited to have found such clear evidence of the interaction, but when we plotted responses to the whole scale, we found only a hint of the predicted interaction, and only in the last few years, as you can see in Figure 5. After trying a few different graphing strategies, and after seeing if there was a good statistical justification for dropping any items, we reached the tentative conclusion that the big story about locus of control is not about liberal girls, it’s about Gen Z as a whole. Everyone—boys and girls, left and right—developed a more external locus of control gradually, beginning in the 1990s. I’ll come back to this finding in future posts as I explore the second strand of the After Babel Substack: the loss of “play-based childhood” which happened in the 1990s when American parents (and British, and Canadian) stopped letting their children out to play and explore, unsupervised. (See Frank Furedi’s important book Paranoid Parenting. I believe that the loss of free play and self-supervised risk-taking blocked the development of a healthy, normal, internal locus of control. That is the reason I teamed up with Lenore Skenazy, Peter Gray, and Daniel Shuchman to found LetGrow.org.)
Figure 5. Locus of Control has shifted slightly but steadily toward external since the 1990s. Scores are on a 5-point scale from 1 = most internal to 5 = most external.
We kept looking in the Monitoring the Future dataset and the Gimbrone et al. paper for other items that would allow us to test Filipovic’s hypothesis. We found an ideal second set of variables: The Monitoring the Future dataset has a set of items on “self derogation” which is closely related to disempowerment, as you can see from the four statements that comprise the scale:
I feel I do not have much to be proud of.
Sometimes I think I am no good at all.
I feel that I can't do anything right.
I feel that my life is not very useful.
Gimbrone et al. had graphed the self-derogation scale, as you can see in their appendix (Figure A.4). But Zach and I re-graphed the original data so that we could show a larger range of years, from 1977 through 2021. As you can see in Figure 6, we find the gender-by-politics interaction. Once again, and as with nearly all of the mental health indicators I examined in a previous post, there’s no sign of trouble before 2010. But right around 2012 the line for liberal girls starts to rise. It rises first, and it rises most, with liberal boys not far behind (as in Gimbrone et al.).
Figure 6. Self-derogation scale, averaging four items from the Monitoring the Future study. Graphed by Zach Rausch. The scale runs from 1 (strongly disagree with each statement) to 5 (strongly agree).
In other words, we have support for Filipovic’s “captain their own ship” concern, and for Lukianoff’s disempowerment concern: Gen Z has become more external in its locus of control, and Gen Z liberals (of both sexes) have become more self-derogating. They are more likely to agree that they “can’t do anything right.” Furthermore, most of the young people in the progressive institutions that Filipovic mentioned are women, and that has become even more true since 2014 when, according to Gallup data, young women began to move to the left while young men did not move either way. As Gen Z women became more progressive and more involved in political activism in the 2010s, it seems to have changed them psychologically. It wasn’t just that their locus of control shifted toward external—that happened to all subsets of Gen Z. Rather, young liberals (including young men) seem to have taken into themselves the specific depressive cognitions and distorted ways of thinking that CBT is designed to expunge.
But where did they learn to think this way? And why did it start so suddenly around 2012 or 2013, as Greg observed, and as Figures 2 and 6 confirm?
Tumblr Was the Petri Dish for Disempowering Beliefs
I recently listened to a brilliant podcast series, The Witch Trials of J. K. Rowling, hosted by Megan Phelps-Roper, created within Bari Weiss’s Free Press. Phelps-Roper interviews Rowling about her difficult years developing the Harry Potter stories in the early 1990s, before the internet; her rollout of the books in the late 90s and early 2000s, during the early years of the internet; and her observations about the Harry Potter superfan communities that the internet fostered. These groups had streaks of cruelty and exclusion in them from the beginning, along with a great deal of love, joy, and community. But in the stunning third episode, Phelps-Roper and Rowling take us through the dizzying events of the early 2010s as the social media site Tumblr exploded in popularity (reaching its peak in early 2014), and also in viciousness. Tumblr was different from Facebook and other sites because it was not based on anyone’s social network; it brought together people from anywhere in the world who shared an interest, and often an obsession.
Phelps-Roper interviewed several experts who all pointed to Tumblr as the main petri dish in which nascent ideas of identity, fragility, language, harm, and victimhood evolved and intermixed. Angela Nagle (author of Kill All Normies) described the culture that emerged among young activists on Tumblr, especially around gender identity, in this way:
There was a culture that was encouraged on Tumblr, which was to be able to describe your unique non-normative self… And that’s to some extent a feature of modern society anyway. But it was taken to such an extreme that people began to describe this as the snowflake [referring to the idea that each snowflake is unique], the person who constructs a totally kind of boutique identity for themselves, and then guards that identity in a very, very sensitive way and reacts in an enraged way when anyone does not respect the uniqueness of their identity.
Nagle described how on the other side of the political spectrum, there was “the most insensitive culture imaginable, which was the culture of 4chan.” The communities involved in gender activism on Tumblr were mostly young progressive women while 4Chan was mostly used by right-leaning young men, so there was an increasingly gendered nature to the online conflict. The two communities supercharged each other with their mutual hatred, as often happens in a culture war. The young identity activists on Tumblr embraced their new notions of identity, fragility, and trauma all the more tightly, increasingly saying that words are a form of violence, while the young men on 4chan moved in the opposite direction: they brandished a rough and rude masculinity in which status was gained by using words more insensitively than the next guy. It was out of this reciprocal dynamic, the experts on the podcast suggest, that today’s cancel culture was born in the early 2010s. Then, in 2013, it escaped from Tumblr into the much larger Twitterverse. Once on Twitter, it went national and even global (at least within the English-speaking countries), producing the mess we all live with today.
I don’t want to tell that entire story here; please listen to the Witch Trials podcast for yourself. It is among the most enlightening things I’ve read or heard in all my years studying the American culture war (along with Jon Ronson’s podcast Things Fell Apart). I just want to note that this story fits perfectly with both the timing and the psychology of Greg’s reverse CBT hypothesis.
Implications and Policy Changes
In conclusion, I believe that Greg Lukianoff was exactly right in the diagnosis he shared with me in 2014. Many young people had suddenly—around 2013—embraced three great untruths:
They came to believe that they were fragile and would be harmed by books, speakers, and words, which they learned were forms of violence (Great Untruth #1).
They came to believe that their emotions—especially their anxieties—were reliable guides to reality (Great Untruth #2).
They came to see society as comprised of victims and oppressors—good people and bad people (Great Untruth #3).
Liberals embraced these beliefs more than conservatives. Young liberal women adopted them more than any other group due to their heavier use of social media and their participation in online communities that developed new disempowering ideas. These cognitive distortions then caused them to become more anxious and depressed than other groups. Just as Greg had feared, many universities and progressive institutions embraced these three untruths and implemented programs that performed reverse CBT on young people, in violation of their duty to care for them and educate them.
I welcome challenges to this conclusion from scholars, journalists, and subscribers, and I will address such challenges in future posts. I must also repeat that I don’t blame everything on smartphones and social media; the other strand of my story is the loss of play-based childhood, with its free play and self-governed risk-taking. But if this conclusion stands (along with my conclusions in previous posts), then I think there are two big policy changes that should be implemented as soon as possible:
1) Universities and other schools should stop performing reverse CBT on their students
As Greg and I showed in The Coddling of the American Mind, most of the programs put in place after the campus protests of 2015 are based on one or more of the three Great Untruths, and these programs have been imported into many K-12 schools. From mandatory diversity training to bias response teams and trigger warnings, there is little evidence that these programs do what they say they do, and there are some findings that they backfire. In any case, there are reasons, as I have shown, to worry that they teach children and adolescents to embrace harmful, depressogenic cognitive distortions.
One initiative that has become popular in the last few years is particularly suspect: efforts to tell college students to avoid common English words and phrases that are said to be “harmful.” Brandeis University took the lead in 2021 with its “oppressive language list.” Brandeis urged its students to stop saying that they would “take a stab at” something because it was unnecessarily violent. For the same reason, they urged that nobody ask for a “trigger warning” because, well, guns. Students should ask for “content warnings” instead, to keep themselves safe from violent words like “stab.” Many universities have followed suit, including Colorado State University, The University of British Columbia, The University of Washington, and Stanford, which eventually withdrew its “harmful language list” because of the adverse publicity. Stanford had urged students to avoid words like “American,” “Immigrant,” and “submit,” as in “submit your homework.” Why? because the word “submit” can “imply allowing others to have power over you.” The irony here is that it may be these very programs that are causing liberal students to feel disempowered, as if they are floating in a sea of harmful words and people when, in reality, they are living in some of the most welcoming and safe environments ever created.
2) The US Congress should raise the age of “internet adulthood” from 13 to 16 or 18
What do you think should be the minimum age at which children can sign a legally binding contract to give away their data and their rights, and expose themselves to harmful content, without the consent or knowledge of their parents? I asked that question as a Twitter poll, and you can see the results here:
Image: See my original tweet.
Of course, this poll of my own Twitter followers is far from a valid survey, and I phrased my question in a leading way, but my phrasing was an accurate statement of today’s status quo. I think that most people now understand that the age of 13, which was set back in 1998 when we didn’t know what the internet would become, is just too low, and it is not even enforced. When my kids started 6th grade in NYC public schools, they each told me that “everyone” was on Instagram.
We are now 11 years into the largest epidemic of adolescent mental illness ever recorded. I know so many families that have been thrown into fear and turmoil by a child’s suicide attempt. You probably do too, given that the recent CDC report tells us that one in ten adolescents now say they have made an attempt to kill themselves. It is hitting all political and demographic groups. The evidence is abundant that social media is a major cause of the epidemic, and perhaps the major cause. It's time we started treating social media and other apps designed for “engagement” (i.e., addiction) like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling, or, because they can harm society as well as their users, perhaps like automobiles and firearms. Adults should have wide latitude to make their own choices, but legislators and governors who care about mental health, women’s health, or children’s health need to step up.
It’s not enough to find more money for mental health services, although that is sorely needed. In addition, we must shut down the conveyer belt so that today’s toddlers will not suffer the same fate in twelve years. Congress should set a reasonable minimum age for minors to sign contracts and open accounts without explicit parental consent, and the age needs to be after teens have progressed most of the way through puberty. (The harm caused by social media seems to be greatest during puberty.) If Congress won’t do it then state legislatures should act. There are many ways to rapidly verify people’s ages online, and I’ll discuss age verification processes in a future post.
In conclusion: All of Gen Z got more anxious and depressed after 2012. But Lukianoff’s reverse CBT hypothesis is the best explanation I have found for Why the mental health of liberal girls sank first and fastest.
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sub!stray kids | 𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚖 (18+)
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↳ [ // 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐀𝐔𝐓𝐇𝐎𝐑'𝐒 𝐍𝐎𝐓𝐄. ] sub skz beloved. 💦 this group is truly populated by harness models, catboys, cuddle bugs and pretty visuals only. get ready for a #fifty shades of stray party up in here 😂 every member got their own flavor so each imagine/hc is going to be a slightly different genre soo— enjoy!
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♡ FELIX 필릭스
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how he sounds like, it’s quite significant in your decision to commit. once you’ve heard his most desperate horny cries, you’ll never want to hear anyone else's voice in your bedroom again. you don’t know why.
maybe because sunshine is the real-life manifestation of a hardcore hentai femboy sub. the groans, the favorite accessories, the kinks, the squeals, the begging, the faces. you know, the kind of guy that ends up perched between his domme’s breasts (…or thighs) and blushes excessively from shyness.
he asks you to start controlling the way he dresses and speaks sometimes as part of play. he likes your single-minded character.
he knows you mean business when calling him lee yongbok. it either means you’re about to eat his ass whole or rock your hips all over his gorgeous face. either is heaven for felix who has a thing for skilled tongues, and being skilled with it himself. the absolute tease.
such a fit and flexible guy. felix makes it easy to adjust things for you. he can squeeze it good for some decently tight and painful anal session, or the complete opposite. having the strap just slip in and out of him like he’s a bottomless pit. felix is the first in line for a proper head down, ass up pounding late at night. until he’s dizzy, but then again, he begs you to enter him again and again. the amount of lube he’s using up is just astounding and expensive.
when lix wants to prank you a bit, he lists you cringey australian slang for kinky things, which you will rebuff pretty much immediately because who names these things like that. australian nsfw words need to be kept closed away from society. the rest of his nicknames and trend words is cute. but 18+ aussie vernacular is banned at your house. the prank is definitely successful, so you tickle his feet to get back at him.
whenever lix is acting unlike himself, you know he’s hiding a dirty thought. it takes several months of trust work until he admits the following, but it doesn’t really surprise you what’s on his mind. since felix has a bit of an overpower-me fixation and a serious size kink, he fantasizes about several fangirls meeting with him in his room and having their way with him. like literally being all over his body and destroying this sweet little boy for fun’s sake.
and… he’s imagining like seriously well-endowed baddies who have a lot that they can put on him. he literally wants several girls to just grind him into the mattress until he turns to dust. you’re like, hey maybe we can ask some girls from tiktok or instagram. felix is shocked that you’d go along with it, he thought you’d disown his subby ass. you say hey, you count yourself among the felix fangirl and fanboy nation, so!
now it depends. is he too introverted or disconnected from his fantasy to agree on really living it, so it would winds up being a roleplay between the two of you? or is he daring enough, then. you say, when he’s ready, he’s ready. those things have to be planned carefully, with the right people.
chances are, he will say yes and buy the condoms. he wants to get fucked absolutely dumb. you agree he can get his dick wet while getting passed around like the salt at dinner, and these girls can rub themselves all over felix at your permission. damn, he’s gonna be sore the next day. all those heels digging into him, so much heat, so much pressure and facefucking. felix is totally a masochist undercover, and you’re starting to realize it’s very trainable: congrats and g’day mate.
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♡ HYUNJIN 현진
riddle me this. why does mister `hotter than your ex better than your next´ never leave his room? …because you’re busy running ice cubes over his stomach to say the least. or swapping them from your mouth into his. don’t act like you wouldn’t do the nastiest things to him.
like what do people think this sex pot is doing? he can’t paint 24/7. hyunjin is a guy of passion and he’s the body. not to mention in love with the pervert that is you. so he’s in there preoccupied with sex stuff obviously.
after he finally admitted how desperate his crush on you was, and it’s not like he could ever hide those things, there was no stopping him, and no stopping you with the body oil to grease him up. the rest is history.
you can bet he’ll be your personal strip tease dancer once he’s all oiled up. nothing will ace hyunjin enjoy more. not to mention your own blessed eyes. water is wet, i know.
so what’s it like domming the most beautiful, handsome, fascinating, and chic man in the world? nothing short of an extraterrestrially good experience. because subby hyunjin truly is out of this world kind of sexy with the right dose of being a maniac, reference fully intended. yeah, he’s a lil’ crazy. so what. makes things even more intense. hyunjin is obsessed with exploring his sexuality to the very fullest, what’s not to like. he’s very comfortable being erotic. and smitten. and masochistic.
no matter what he does, no matter how klutzy he becomes, he does not fail to impress his top. even in his messiness, he is gorgeous… okay — i’ll stop waxing poetic. but yup he’s hot. a pretty romantic elven prince in some super sultry lingerie. a god of lace and fishnets.
let’s be honest. hyunjin just wants to be grabbed and squeezed from all directions. that’s why he’s bothering the whole of skz all day and keeps talking chan into writing such physical songs for him. cuz he wants something to come back.
has his experience with chain bondage, doesn’t he. hyunjin goes down the rope bunny rabbit hole faster than anyone. if he’s not down there already, waiting for a proper rigger dominant. he has the perfect body to do rope. small waist, long legs, sturdy arms, and wrists. he’s tall, that’s lots of space available. don’t think a rope bunny has to be small and lithe.
hyunjin is a huge fan of taemin’s work. that tells you what? basically everything. everybody knows taemin is the king of bondage, resourcefulness, and hard subbing. and, like in hyunjin’s case, taemin got the biggest ever oral fixation and touch deprivation going for him. these two are about the same in terms of er... severity. hyunjin would not survive without getting kisses. before work, coming home, after dinner, for the night.
because he whines pretty easily, it’s not hard to find out where his limits are and what things to try with hyunjin or not. `complaints´ don’t make a bad sub, in fact, they make a good one. feedback, you know. better a lot of it than none at all. it’s good if a sub uses the safewording system.
on his fours, hyunjin looks so sexy splayed out on his underarms and knees exactly because he is so damn tall. and yes, stark naked, even half-suspended, with some electric toys in his ass as the cherry on top. you might stay clothed during the whole thing, it’s about him as the artistic centerpiece. while he’s going through it, you point your phone cam at him to immortalize the staging.
loves his brain disintegrating from extreme pleasure and pain. which he will cry out like he’s on a rollercoaster indeed. the deeper the moans, the more profound you know it will be. watch his experiences turn into paintings in real-time the next day. hyunjin gets major inspiration spikes from sub training.
even though he might seem super stubborn, hyunjin’s talent of self-improvement should never ever be underestimated. never. if you point something out, he only needs to be told once. a man who’s glowed up this stunningly is always to be reckoned with.
hides his crazy toys, but not for long. he’s so embarrassed asking if you could be the one to apply them on him, but he does ask. which speaks of him really confiding in you. he would not leave those things to a perfect stranger. hyunjin is very unlikely to request sub training from a hookup anyways. he needs a domme he can absolutely lose him mind about day and night. he thinks about you every time he cums, there’s no other fantasy in his head. he definitely wants to be your husband in the future. he wants a wife who is possessive and take-charge, and picks out the skirts for him to wear.
you talked about this together. he loves being denied blowjobs to torture him for real. the fantasy in his mind will drive him insane like... he will cower in his bed at night with thoughts racing and turning. any orgasm denial is right up hyunjin’s alley. vice versa, he is eager to please you with his amazing hands.
shakes it all off pretty quickly during aftercare. hyunjin is not the sub drop kind of submissive at all, it’s gonna surprise you. most of the aftermath quickly turns into him eating you out instead. that’s his favorite way of coming down. lazy as they come (not indifferent or anything, but you know what i mean), without a drama in the world. he can’t be “disgusting, do it again!!” all day.
already vowed to spend the majority of his waking life and sexually active years on this planet with you sitting on his face. he doesn’t lie, and it’s too otherworldly gorgeous to go to waste, look at those lips, so.
his head is easy to control and teach because his hair’s so long. just saying. he loves it grabbed and secured. what else. he’s a pisces. pisces love to be pulled by their lovely flowing locks. hyunjin’s prettiness has no limits. nor does his sloppy mouth.
even for the pickiest dom in the world, oral training slave hyunjin will do it for them. he’s that good. strap sucking? very much included. porn stars step aside and leave it to the stray kids pet boys: hyunjin is the absolute throat goat. he can muscle through the biggest calibers with his eyes closed. and you know there are lots of options with that silicone in terms of shapes and sizes. hyunjin is gonna show up in the studio with one raspy voice and very puffy lips. this might be your favorite thing to do with him. he has the best gagging noises EVER.
you really delight in having him dress all dolled up, gauze faux leather bowties pearls everything, training him to let go and just enjoy it no thoughts head empty — but there really aren’t that many steps left until complete bimbofication like. come on. it’s hyunjin. he’s already there, he’s got the lip gloss supply, he’s serving it. which brings me to my next point.
a mutual marking. you, with love bites. him, with said lipstick. this is gonna be a mess, but there’s nobody better suited to be covered in hickeys than hyunjin. not to mention just how much of a turn-on it will be to lick and nibble on him everywhere, aggressively or softly, or both.
dare i say his face is smackable. hyunjin is a sucker for heavy slaps. but it takes a lot more to finish a horny slut of that degree. hyunjin needs to be told to jerk himself off furiously with a vibrating fleshlight until he’s overstimulated, screaming, crying — and then kissed until he’s tired and dizzy and clinging from so much love.
very well, i told you. he’s fascinating.
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♡ CHAN 찬
let’s face it. daddy bang needs a break from all that business, and all the feral barking directed at him. cozy chris has some major needs, too — and, as you found out early on into your relationship — they are all of a gentle nature.
he can’t foster seven mischievous kids, produce all night, look that buff, talk his ass off on lives and during interviews, be a fitness/sports king, the wisest person on earth, make beats nonstop, and then also play the big bad wolf in the bedroom with you as well. that just doesn’t work.
this mf would probably burn out at some point.
hyung life is just so damn hard. and take it from me, dom life kinda is, too. it’s about coordination alike. someone dominant has a huge portion of responsibility when it comes to knowledge, to handling props, protocol, safe sane consensual, and tying everything back into the rest of the relationship. we gotta look after ourselves but also keep our minds clear about the when and how and why. chan does that with stray kids as a leading figure, he knows how it works with several people. bangchan is charming incarnate, and he can demand something.
the question is, would chris go the extra miles of extra miles of all extra miles to be the absolute boss of his girlfriend for reasons of kink? sure, he’d do anything for her. no question. he is prone to sacrifice. but in practice: the ole man would break his own back yanking a whip at someone. what he could use is some hugs instead. like proactive ones, where he doesn’t have to chase. that gives him such a fuzzy feeling inside. when someone goes out of their way to put in the work. he already shoulders a lot professionally, so a responsible dom in his private life makes for a surprisingly perfect match. he’s a libra... any circumstance needs to be tipped into a needed equilibrium. chan at home has to be the glaring opposite of chan at work for things to feel even to him.
even more real talk. how would he even sound intimidating with that much aussie dripping from his pronunciation. oi, how we feelin’ with yer buttplug, buddy?
...give me a break. and him. especially him. he needs it.
the guy would be out there... apologizing for every little thing. dominant chan is just not on god’s menu for humankind y’all. he’s already overworked all day and night, where would he even draw the energy from to properly spank anybody. the guy people think wants to called sir will `yeah ma’am´ his girlfriend by sheer `accident´.
which means? pillow prince chris — here we come.
although he can be easygoing, chan has a tendency to overthink subbing just like he overthinks everything else, but it also makes him neither reckless nor overly reliant. which is a good thing.
then again, he has something so authentic about him (i mean come on, that dimpled baby smile), he’ll always do well.
he’s a talented submissive physically. sensual and good-looking in all positions and blindfolds. not to mention that it’s so relaxing to toy with his curls between your fingers after sex.
guess who will worship his domme. that’s right, the one who knows the value and strain of leadership himself the very most.
chan, no matter how awkward he thinks he is, always says the right words of appreciation at the right time. not to mention that his voice has such a comfortable tone to it. he tells you in what ways he thinks you always do a good job with him, and how attractive you are in his loving eyes. call him a cheeseball, but that’s bang chan for you.
he doesn’t like hierarchy as much as people would believe. he prefers organization over social stratum. chan is trying hard to be a good feminist which naturally entails putting on crop tops in your presence. but seriously now. he could ‚awh, my good girl‘ you technically and be decent (because what can’t he do), but submissive channie is just the more interesting variety of chris’ sexy alter egos.
is the `reading yourself into the topic’ kinda guy. instead of leaving the verbal input to you, he takes that task off your shoulders and consults his PC instead. god, the blogs he’ll land on.
you have to remind him it’s not workload, it’s leisure. nevertheless, you credit him for being responsible and intellectual about it. that way, you can advance pretty easily with discovering new kinks.
despite his vast research, chan is easily shocked by things that are considered more extreme. he’d be like oh my god... sounding?! chan makes for a better soft than hard sub, even if there are exceptions for some toys and techniques you would use on him.
casual domination in his studio? you biting his neck while riding his thighs? why not. lee know, who delivers random take-out into the room at one point since chan forgot to eat dinner, is totally unimpressed nor fazed at all. having sex? nothing special. who cares. here’s your pizza. extra funghi and cheese. seconds later, he took off again.
chan is shaken by your composure, and lee know’s, and will totally lock the door next time, or put a sticky note on there. which the members do respect, but they really don’t make a big deal about you fucking at his place. hell, they hear hyunjin moan all day.
talk about others watching. chan dreams of several doms running a train on him and pulling out the peak degradation scenarios, but he’s too afraid to try an actual #wolfgangbang.
in many regards, he’s similar to felix in his sexual fantasies, although they are much more `orderly´ if that makes sense. people are set in their ways, adhere to their roles, do their thing in a prescribed way. it’s all very lawful good. chan sticks to letting that fantasy be a fantasy, however, knowing he’s all very new to this.
all in all: chan is a gentlemanly new school sub. man, i’m not sorry, i’m dirty… that was a lie. he’s pretty clean. compare him with hyunjin’s chaos-causing aura and you know what i mean.
and besides his tidiness, he’s also a good pillow talker, which you treasure. god, this man is so loveable.
chan should really be the one receiving a big protective bear hug for a change. chris protects everyone, but who protects chris!
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♡ SEUNGMIN 승민
a wise choice of sub, my friend. you have picked well.
seungmin lived the subby life before it was cool, and will live the subby life after it was cool. period.
at this point, seungmin might as well be called submin. should be his whole second name.
no gimmicks and trendy shit to be expected here. he has his own established philosophy that he wants to share with you.
and he’s a stamina monster, you wouldn’t believe it. he really doesn’t get exhausted easily, nor does he shy away from the more demanding set-ups that an advanced dominant would come up with. expert-level shibari and the like, knife play and the like. medical play, even.
his body is ready.
seungmin might be a humorous guy, but he takes subbing seriously. especially because he’s no longer a beginner and wants to pick up some final touches during the training you lay out for him. that requires focus.
the one true closet freak. uh-oh. no matter how good you are at reading people, you could not have possibly fathomed how far he was willing to go when you first met.
it took some time until you realized okay, he really wants to step it up a notch. his requests seem innocent enough in his tone of voice, because seungmin can make anything sound innocent, but wow... the degree of humiliation he can brace himself for is pretty intense. pretty daring for a puppy i reckon.
breaking news: someone might have a corruption kink.
you got yourself one of the most courageous subs right there. people who want to top seungmin aren’t exactly touchy-feely either. they surely have a strict, punitive, ice-cold side with a stinging wit — which he enjoys the most in a dominant.
he wants to be put in his deserved place. he wants to be pushed and pushed and pushed some more until his dirty mouth no longer grants him the upper hand. this whole process... might involve some candle wax.
he wants that fatigue, and see you smug because he’s been subdued after all. that’s pretty gratifying. he for sure does not need a service top. he needs somebody to tread all over him, call him names, and leave him drooling like a filthy little thing.
human furniture everyone? he’ll be your seat, your table, whatever your mood says. you can sit on him until he no longer begs.
training him merely means bringing him from a high level to the highest level. he’s either a natural about certain kinks or doesn’t need to be taught at all, he’s already pulling it off. less effort needed on your side, you’re grateful he’s being such a pro.
seungmin is definitely a rational thinker about improving himself as a submissive, which is most certainly a rare find.
but the emotional side... let me tell you a secret. you think han and changbin yell their soul out… oh no. should you demand it of him, seungmin is the screamer. like real authentic organic stuff going on, that makes you feel it in your bones. any sadist attracted to stray kids should immediately turn to seungmin. he’s no coward. seungmin is the final boss of letting it out. five stars.
you wish people would see his potential, but you also want to keep his kinky side to yourself. gatekeeping your pup, are you. good for you.
takes orders with flying colors, he is excellent. he’s very trusting but also doesn’t switch his brain off. that makes him a near-perfect play partner.
has about the smoothest moans you can think of. his vocal talent absolutely translates to hitting it off in the sheets… and the improvised home dungeon.
of course you have one. how could you not. it’s filled with all kinds of fetish collections and risqué polaroids that should never make it out of that room.
he likes spending lots of time there to say the least. as a couple, that room is your dirty secret and you’re proud of it.
and he’s surely the guy you wanna put to the test there. seungmin flinching? hardly ever. he’s unafraid, with many eccentric soft limits to try out. definitely not your regular sub is what i wanna say. that’s what it boils down to.
and to be certain we’re mentioning this. do we really have to establish the fact that he’d be into puppy play? no? okay, figures. put those ears on him already. scratch that, glue them onto seungmin permanently or something.
and let’s face it, which animal is more suitable and in need to be trained than a cute little puppy dog? he can let go and start from zero, that’s why he loves it. seungmin on a leash is just an amazingly pretty sight, it needs to be photographed.
in terms of more hidden talents, he’s the god of doing everything extra slow. which is not easy at all. seungmin has remarkable self- and body control in bed.
slow licks, slow back arch, slow tears, slow everything. he cries pretty silently from pleasure or pain, but it makes for a wonderful sight always. i’m telling you, seungmin is something else.
a delicacy for every domme who’s into proper dacryphilia. how can someone cry this beautifully, like an antique painting.
long story short. he is not to be underestimated, nor does he have to be trained by any means unless it’s just play-pretend.
roleplay is definitely high up on his bucket list, by the way. he looks sexy in all kinds of costumes.
and handcuffs. uh-huh.
seungmin’s softer sub side is balm for the soul, too. he likes his praise especially, guy’s so sensitive to it. and he will crawl on the ground to fulfill your every wish, tell him to bring you a plate with cake and there he goes, you get any delicacy you want.
yes, yes. he appreciates getting his smooches. and head pats. he can really go far with the rougher kinks, but don’t you ever think he doesn’t.
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♡ HAN 한
seriously. who doesn’t want jisung whimpering for mercy in their ear?
this guy is literally perfect to train. where he has the question, you got an answer. when he is curious, you can show him something. when he has an idea, you have a way to implement it. when he could use a hint, you have one ready.
on top of that: jisung has a propensity of admiring his girlfriend a lot, so... you can see where this is going. i’m not saying it’s a dynamic of worship but that’s exactly what i’m saying.
because han is very much afraid that it will be one-sided or he will look utterly desperate, or stupid even, he held back on it until he realized that you have no problem with him holding onto your every word. why’d you not like han being dumbstruck by you. you enjoy the amount of respect behind that.
and that feeling of jisung being struck by cupid’s arrow so hard, it’s utterly cute how he acts when he’s in love.
the thing is, whatever he does, he can’t hide it anyway. han projects everything outward, he’d have to really get his head in the game to hide how he wants to relate to you.
it’s clear he wants to submit, though he doesn’t exactly know how, he can’t name it, his cluelessness makes him rely on you more than most of the other members would, although he’s similar to felix and chan. and, covertly, lee know, who also sticks like glue so to speak, jisung has the same type of ‘hooked on you like velcro’ personality.
han, often the confused and worried type, really needs the clearest instructions of them all. orders, direction, highly engaged leadership. which sounds more difficult than it really is.
once he’s begging to show you how to put the full body harness on properly, you’re already deeply immersed. still, you ask him just to be very certain two times, does he want to do this for real, is he bracing himself enough. you are sure, and you want him to be sure.
come to think of it, 3racha might actually be the members most nervous to submit, becoming suddenly talkative and overly observant. they’re familiar with presenting themselves as larger-than-life personalities with a lot of grit and coolness, so taking that leap won’t come to them as naturally as for members like seungmin or felix.
not that subs can’t be cool and gritty, lee know is the walking example. and hyunjin remains a larger-than-life personality even when he subs. but 3racha has more of a dominant image imprinted on them for being so extremely buff and hip-hop based, with faces and voices and skills that scream ‚top of their game‘.
however, you can watch that beefcake crumble once the handcuffs are on and the bamboo cane comes out.
for those who don’t know: canes are typically the kinds of impact tools that come with the most vicious sting. they’re slender and flexible, hence they really dig themselves into those thighs and booty, all without causing a cut. while most whips look far more terrifying, they’re not as high up on the pain scale. sure, they’re not paddles, but you get the gist. canes are sort of the non plus ultra.
if you use bamboo to discipline a sub, they’ve been a really bad boy. which might just happen with… not jisung.
he’s lovely to you anyway, what are we even saying. hannie is the goodest bestest sweetest loveliest submissive. that’s right. i hope you didn’t hear it here first, but yes.
in fact, anticipate him being shy and restrained. though he can be all over the place, han is a polite sub.
he’s not that much of a forward character like hyunjin throwing himself into a hug, or seungmin saying which way he wants to be spanked up front.
han will actually be unsure what to do, but that might be connected to his character in general. in order for him not to get lost kind of `spiritually´ and physically, you have to guide his hands and mind alike.
if it’s too much for him, you have to make sure not to speed up the learning process like it would be appropriate for say, lee know. han is a different breed here, repetition is key.
it’s better if his dom doesn’t hold his need for slow memorizing against him, he doesn’t do it to be deliberately bratty or anything.
he wants to be trained in seriousness and see how it’s done properly two or three times rather than just once. he enjoys the quality time that comes with it, that’s important to him as well.
talk about restraints: if your darkest fantasy involves tying jisung to your bed from all directions and going full sensory deprivation, only to tease the shit out of him so he’ll go nuts: you’ve come to the right place. jisung is thoroughly fascinated by constructions like that, the whole tools and toys and trivia of it. he’ll also be down for some more provocative positions you’ll tie him into. no problem.
reaction king number one. so, that’s satisfying.
you don’t have to give it to him raw to get noise out of him.
the poor ass neighbors, though. this needs some precautions. as with changbin: a gag will work some miracles to tame him: or any type of dildo will do, his throat will become really flexible and unhinged with practice. just imagine those wide eyes and teary sobs. top tier shit. han is a hidden deepthroat legend.
you’ve never heard screams and moans as varied as his. every day he comes up with something new. honestly, how does he do it. from “ah, ah, please, ah” to loud frickin’ “spank me harder!” screams.
han will never fail to tell you how good it is, and he’s not demanding of ‘great sex’. he evaluates things according to how stimulating a scene is emotionally rather than physically. where hyunjin would do both or felix would look at how comfortable (and amicable, you know him) it is, han begs to differ and makes the atmosphere priority. even awkwardness is something to go off of, and silly mistakes. not severe ones obviously, but you get the gist: anything happening is something happening! han just likes the eventfulness of it. it’s actually precious. he doesn’t make a big deal out of it when you have an insecure day or don’t feel 100% confident about some technique.
as long as there is any activity, han will be energized by it. although he can be high maintenance sometimes, he’s very easy to please and a rewarding, easy sub, somebody who won’t judge you as harshly as he would clock his members for acting shady. and to be fair, you’re certainly not as scheming as jeongin to say the very least, he cannot be surpassed. so, han wouldn’t even have a reason to call you out for something, even when you prank him harmlessly. again: all fun is good fun, as long as the fun is present!
han is most definitely a dark horse as a sub, but it’s no wonder he likes to please his partner very much.
jisung might come off as a jokester who doesn’t want to get too close, but just you wait until you put some candles on, some music on, and you take a bath together.
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♡ CHANGBIN 창빈
since sub changbin is a world on his own, i think it’s time to give an analogy.
leo might be the king among the zodiac, loud and roaring. imposing, even, bursting with physicality and their very own brand of authority. this animal is very hard to challenge, in fact. compared to other inhabitants of the desert, a mighty lion among its pack is often recognized first despite its laid-back way of moving, and the way it takes its status and power as a given.
but at the end of the day? a lion still belongs to the family of felines and has the cuteness instinct of any cat. no lion goes without affection of his loved ones, nor does he move a singular paw to get something done sometimes. although agile, other animals are much more direct in their brutality, speed, and the way they claim territory. lions are actually chill most of the time, what makes others fear them is merely size and volume rather than real voluntary attacking power. lions only get going when they really have to since their stamina is low, and most of their standing rather depends on pride and need for attention than active domineering all day.
lions would rather stroll, sit, munch, and have their mane stroked than wander around in the heat to get some heat. when shit hits the fan, one lion always need the help of others. you won’t see a lion fighting on his own, while a single gorilla could absolutely clobber him in jungle dense enough. in other words: lions are overestimated in their power. they’re more relaxed than you think. they’re snoozing cats, but slightly bigger. well... changbin is pretty similar. he unleashes his entire grind within the group, but as a partner it’s a whole different game.
soon as you cup his cheeks palm in palm, it’s over. he just melts away. like c’mon. as if he’s gonna say nooo i’ll switch back immediately! ain’t gonna happen.
he’s the guy who acts so big and bold, but the little voice in him tells changbin hey… let her take some care of you there for good measure. so to speak — he doesn’t have to be the one on the steering wheel. changbin is kind of running into a mental conflict though, because he’s not as experienced with dating.
he doesn’t want to burden his girlfriend either by being overbearing or acting overly needy. you tell him, chances are, at home he’ll be neither. there’s no camera rolling and no expectation. and you give him attention whenever, it’s not like he has to plead for it. “be natural” and trusting his gut sounds like an utterly lame pinterest board advice, but it’s the gist.
it’s something new to him, and peanuts to you. at the beginning, it’s all about bridging that gap.
what’s easier than patting changbin’s hair and telling him how cute he is, though? biting into an apple or something.
which is also the topic of your relationship since you go a little pervy sometimes and bite his ass. you know, as a treat.
the binbooty is a jiggly mystery on its own and deserves to be explored. be honest, you grab it to release stress like it’s your religion. damn, it’s really soft and comforting indeed. bless his ass.
and while we’re talking soft things versus hard stuff.
sure, you could go like yeah… hate sex… let’s yell at each other.
but hey, thinking outside the box? you have lots of fun turning things upside down by having him bite down on a rope gag. what unusual silence. this probably wouldn’t work on a sub like hyunjin, he’d only whine even more, but changbin is pretty consistent.
but we’re getting ahead of ourselves.
he’s rather romantic, very sensitive in front of his partner. changbin respects them for topping him very expertly and reliably. he’s impressed by her knowledge and skills if she’s in the game for longer, or wowed by her dare if she’s new to it.
as for himself, changbin thinks he’ll still have to catch up. where other people in the rapper scene would have to catch up with him, your boyfriend feels the need to sit down in seriousness and research what that bdsm stuff is all about. that’s all a whole new world for him, you know. his epiphany being, this works like this, and that works like that.
often clumsy in bondage, but you make up for it by coaching him through the whole thing. changbin gets confused which rope end goes where, and how to unfasten the entire construction properly if need be, so you take some time studying it rather than just jumping the gun. he’s more involved than you think, changbin wouldn’t like being an all-too passive sub.
and if we’re talking masochism. he can take less than you think, so you gotta work him into it. unlike with seungmin, you can’t just crank out a whip or paddles and go ahead. changbin is a very step-by-step submissive. next to a good relaxing bath, reassurance is his best friend.
this is exciting: he’s totally into fetish wear from the very beginning. that’s where his zone of confidence is. bdsm fashion on such a built guy, let’s go, man. i mean, who wouldn’t say somebody like felix looks great in harnesses. or seungmin. but with changbin, you know... he has a kind of silhouette and natural fashion sense that makes it easy to dress him sexily, with a lot of skin reveals.
changbin without his gear is like stray kids without chan: the essential thing would be missing. i know, the whole group — stray kids? more like latex men — already looks like they’re about to bust it open for a strapped-out dominatrix, but changbin takes it to the next level.
harnesses in all shapes and variations are neatly stacked and hung right in his closet for the world to see. he doesn’t care. changbin is the primordial bdsm fashionista. what can’t he pull off?
in fact, he’s the type to accompany you to an actual bdsm party, you know, to be shown off. he might even make a name for himself in the community, he definitely rolls that way.
that this aegyo and rap machine on two legs can make jay z look boring and he’s got an aggressive voice doesn’t disqualify him from subbing well. changbin’s soft and adorable side is well-documented. he’s gonna be a good boy and massage you how you want it. unlike that bitchy lil’ tease jeongin, he actually deserves resting on your lap without first earning it, and humming to himself, if you’re not the one doing it.
him being chronically honest makes it easier to grow and improve. if the knot is too tight, he’ll let you know. if it’s too loose, same thing. changbin would both be entertaining and sexy to train. and adorable to tuck in with his stuffed animals.
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♡ JEONGIN 아이엔
who knew maknae on top could also bottom.
why? he’s long been spoiled from head to toe and sat on top of the world. this guy thinks everything belongs to him, huh. people throw it all in his direction. they are the metal, he is the magnet. hell, he claims the center of attention more than god, does he. enough is enough. men from busan in general have been an infestation of daringness for far too long. he got ‘em all under his spell with all that cuteness.
this boy needs to put some work into it and bow down in humility. the universe needs balance, my friends. his divine maknae powers and privileges need to be ripped away from him for once.
hence: training sub jeongin — and taking his virginity — is such a juicy topic.
it’s about time this pretty mf gets owned by his girlfriend. he knows he deserves his booty to be stepped on, face to the ground (... on a sufficiently fluffy carpet, this divine skin needs to be protected from any gravel, wood splinters, and concrete).
even in other circumstances, with enough punishment and reward, jeongin is the sort of sub that can most likely be found on the floor. he is down for you to bend him into any shape. forced to kneel, forced to crawl, made to kiss your feet. a leash most often helps to have him memorize the movements, and he has to get his head in the game. no disobedience: in theory.
you need to put him in the kitchen and have him bake. all your favorite stuff. every day. all while wearing the tightest apron in history. with a time limit set. maybe that will teach him not to beg you pleasing him here and there and everywhere. he’ll focus on a task and you watch on with hawk eyes. he needs to follow the recipe correctly, every bit of flour, every grain of sugar. you’re gonna make a whole service sub out of him.
never forget, although you already know: you’re dealing with the quintessential giggling brat. he’s trying to make you simp, he invented the term. he wants you like a puppet on his strings, ‘inspiring you´ to give him the supposed `heavy punishments´ he himself came up with.
sigh, he’s an aquarius. it’s to be expected. jeongin loves to mess with his top just to break their poker face. at the end of the day, that’s literally all this blushy boy wants.
fair enough.
maybe, um, you give that reward to him, only to be able to resume play without any further problems. if we’re honest: winking and smiling at your sub works wonders. because they love to know how much you enjoy being in charge, after all. and he delights in being flirted with. in obnoxious amounts, that is. jeongin could sit on your lap 23/7 without ever feeling the need to leave somewhere.
and jeongin is a black hole when it comes to your flirtation. he wants to take it all in, baby. and he wants to have a monopoly on getting your attention and smirky smirks. he can’t stand the idea of you ever looking at any other cute subs so he’ll make an effort to dress himself well. which definitely doesn’t go overlooked. he doesn’t even have to blink and he has his first time with you. this snack looks too good to be ignored, and you have a huge soft spot for him. out of one tentative time develops a constant stream of steamy date nights.
a highly affectionate and doting mistress sounds like it, but she also needs to train his consistency and rule-abiding at the same time. like seriously make him stick to a code of conduct.
and: she needs to be rough enough to kick him if he so desires and is confident to take it. training jeongin into some ballbusting madness? hell yeah. that’s his thing. a lot of people would not dare raise their foot, so: jeongin is on the lookout for tops who go the extra mile and tend not to hesitate.
spanking, mhh… that’s his favorite, though. he will bend it over and shake it for you like you’re about to make it rain on him, so let’s get this baby bread. jeongin often finds himself hunched across your lap, but also the edge of a bed or a chair. a kitchen counter if you’re nasty. or the backseat of a car.
jeongin has no problem with your butt fixation, he knows he looks good head to toe. he even thinks it’s cute how you crave him.
greedy boy. very. greedy. excessively craving. smiles through his punishments because you know he succeeded. which results in even more severe discipline. which makes jeongin smirk. which makes you go even harder on him. the list goes on. just like that, you’ll find yourself in hard domme territory faster than you think, without even noticing the transition. probably means it was supposed to be rougher bdsm in the first place.
mouth gags won’t do the trick. he’s not han, and he’s not changbin. jeongin is better tamed by a proper dose of chastity. the one that turns a please… please… into a please, please! tough luck for him, you go strict on your sweet honey boy. a little tickle to the thigh is all he’s getting. which makes jeongin extremely clingy to get his affection otherwise.
on the other hand, you can dress him up all pretty, jeongin is very welcoming when it comes to a change of wardrobe for personal playtime.
since he’ll watch his mouth at some point, cute jeongin takes over. his duality is just fascinating to a dom to watch.
put it on his tombstone… death by tiddies. annihilated, in fact. in jeongin's version of bdsm, cbt can mean both cock and ball torture or crushed by tiddies.
because you can’t spell suffocation without I and N. like what in the everloving hell makes jeongin crave breath play so much.
and if we’re talking physical affection by the way.
he’d only let someone this close if his heart was really, and i mean like really touched by them, like enamored. he’s very comfortable being a real maknae there.
you got yourself the prettiest baby and man, you’ll be happy with him. he keeps you on your toes, but he’s also a softie to hug and squeeze.
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♡ LEE KNOW 리노
saving the best for last, are we. handsome satan incarnate, a seemingly unbreakable guy. someone with several cats he can learn inscrutable hacks of badassery from. which might be his secret, or is he a rebel without a cause looking for somebody to drag his sassy demon ass out of hell? hmm... time to find out.
many a domme would absolutely not be able to crack this tsundere’s code to his heart (and how to make his eyes roll back in a way that’s not sarcastic). lee know is truly picky about who he’s gonna allow to dominate him. in fact, he’s this close to staging a talent show to find the one and only, like with actual critiques and rankings and shit. what the hell, though.
lee know is the excalibur of stray kids. you really have to be worthy to get through the stone-like exterior.
at first, he might even seem like a cruel top with a glare in his eyes. but once you’ve seen him in sub drop, you know what he’s up to. lee know is protecting his inner submissive like a dragon sitting on a pile of gold. he’ll only gift it to someone with a good character and some life experience.
it could be someone younger or older, though preferably, he needs a woman who has seen it all to match him. he’s very open to dating dommes who have been in the bdsm scene for a little longer than him. he’s been swiping himself through some promising suggestions, and he’s tried stuff, but... it needs something less casual at some point.
he’s grown too frustrated and confounded by his experimenting, and the nervousness is killing him every time meeting a new play partner. settling becomes more and more of a goal as time passes. he’ll look toward people who have more knowledge under their belt.
people would wonder why, but you gotta remember, this bun’s only 23. lino has more interest in being guided than his demeanor would suggest.
upon first meeting him, you suspect he’s had some bad experiences, but he’s secretive and shy by nature. it takes a while until he’s less closed off. it needs many a nickname and some heartfelt affection. especially feeding him with snacks or kissing his lashes. which are wonderful by the way, he’s actually like a doe rather than a cat.
lee know finds it challenging to talk about any deep traumas, so an open ear and empty shoulder to lean on are very much appreciated. that his domme isn’t the judgy type is pretty important to him.
a feeling of being in safe hands, that’s his priority. he wants to look up to you. and feel like he can really pour himself into that relationship, that every meeting is really precious.
let’s be honest. minho’s brand of cuteness hits different. even when he’s grumpy, it’s effortless. when you put your big scarf around him and only his eyes are visible, he’s the most adorable lil’ muffin.
and now listen. for those who think he makes a better top. this lying cheating girlbossing ass should never be allowed anywhere near a shelf of spreader bars and a latex gimp. okay? okay. lee know gotta learn some manners, predictability, and patience for his domme to apply those things on him. a huge part of sub training with lino actually means making him wait. that one breaks even the craziest brats. you gotta know how to play with your sub’s intensity of desire.
his opinion is this. lee know can’t be bothered to do endless discussions about how to stage a scene. he doesn’t want it to be a performance of sexiness like hyunjin, or a wholesome snugglefest like felix, but a more spontaneous power exchange. no more strict protocols, although safety is never out the window of course. but more like... just living in the moment. what does that tell you, though? again, he really already has had a lot of sexual encounters of the bdsm kind. lee know has met a lot of different dominants and characters to see what he’s dealing with. at one point, yes, he saw a new person every week.
you need to be the type to respect his past and not worry that he’ll move on. you met on a different accord and during a different phase in his life. when he says it’ll only be one night, it’s gonna be like that. and if he says he wants to commit, he means it. you’ll be having great sex all the time and be really domestic.
ironically, pretty babe is totally laissez-faire about the whole thing. maybe he’s subbing out of spite, that’s what you suspect. you’re like what, is he trying to flex? reality is, lino developed a lot of resolve. it’s not just for tops, okay. subs can have their share of swag. to a certain degree. you gotta rein `em in there. especially lee know. but then, also: you gotta be aware that he might not have the much more subtle esteem or confidence in relationships that is more read between the lines. you gotta be the one being his rock.
once you really got under his skin, he surprises you with very passionate masochistic noises just when you thought he couldn’t act any more indifferent about the latest kinky stuff you wanted to try. at the end of the day, he’s not as bitchy and tough as he pretends to be: lee know is a sensitive hoe at heart.
lino doesn’t really care about 100% categorizing himself according to bdsm mores. at the beginning, you think okay, he’s a bit of a lawless one, but he has a certain kind of logic behind that. minho has no fixed preference for what type of sub he is, and limiting himself for the future does not make a lot of sense to him. he knows his states of mind are always changing, and he can grow into some forms of intimacy he doubted before. think seungmin’s versatility, but times two.
lee know experiments, he has strong moods going into either direction, soft and hard and also vanilla. one time he just wants gentle femdom, the other you’ll find him down for putting on the cat ears and getting railed into a wall like there’s no tomorrow. he will keep his teeth clenched and enjoy the ride.
face it: your boy is a full-on scorpio. he’ll only feel truly alive when he’s eating ass and getting fucked hard into a witless delirium, and when you hurt him. he’s not afraid of some nails digging into his tender skin, or getting roped up in a hogtie. the opposite is true. he’s not uneasy about pain.
just like seungmin, lee know hardly ever safewords. this is not about his pride or something — it’s just not necessary. it’s gonna surprise you how comfortable he is with the most varied kinks. to begin with, he doesn’t have as many hard limits as the other members. he also tends to have outstanding endurance. he hikes a lot with you, dances diligently, and masturbates pretty frequently. that definitely builds up to something.
he’s very much into you pinning him anywhere, kitty loves the challenge of a good kabedon. it’s the first bold move, what’s he gonna do? be shy or kiss back? it’s an adventure every time.
often, he’s simply offering his body for you to do what you want. „you can like fistfight god or just take it out on me“ is an all-time favorite shitpost sentence you’ll hear from him.
needs a top who always has the right clapback. lee know can only be trained properly if his domme is verbally quick to the heavens.
she also needs to have a propensity to physically overpower him to keep that dynamic going. this bae enjoys the struggle of having his wrists grabbed, to get pushed down onto a bed, to be carried around, to be choked out with good technique, to get sandwiched by thighs, to be sat on so he can’t move, to be flipped around when needed, to be womanhandled completely. he gets pretty excited when someone is rough in their grip. if his domme is working out, she already understands what he’s all about.
crazy thing he’s doing some „yay opposite time“ on some days. lee know becomes very cozy and doesn’t want to leave your side at all. no more brutality, he just yearns for eye contact.
you will not know how much lee know is rooting for you, with one big crush that is, until you run into your ex-sub at a house party. since said guy is making you so uncomfortable and a leveled approach just won’t do, minho’s inner lucifer resorts to flaming your ex with vicious cutting words about how undeserving he evidently is. like, this is getting sinister.
once the altercation comes to who has the better face card, minho can do anything but lose. you know your tastes, and you know you upgraded. before they battle out who has the best pain tolerance, the host of the party, rosé, sends your ex flying into the pool. if anything, lee know’s true colors have been showing through his loyalty. he was ready to like, go until the break of dawn in that debate. he’s still disgruntled about the guy harassing you months later.
like damn, he’ll stress-eat and be glued to you for weeks. he can’t stop hugging you in his sleep.
yup, what an edgy guy. but then again… watch how much effort this beauty puts into cooking for you, like double the amount of care. tells you a lot. minho really loves you, man.
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for more: sub!idols m.list ♡
sub!skz orgasm faces/bondage scenario | sub!hyunjin oneshot | sub!felix oneshot
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