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lucem-stellarum · 6 months

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So this is what, the 3rd time Porter has been decked by a character because of his attitude? At minimum?

Under the cut for long and rambling character and literary analysis

We have the initial fight 4-5 years ago between Porter and Vincent

We have Lovely getting him during their "Switzerland" talk before the Summit

Now we have Asher at the Summit (part II electric boogaloo)

At this point, I'm starting to wonder if we're even supposed to like him as a character. Sure, he's charismatic. Porter got Treasure wrapped around his finger in less than an hour. But Mr. Redacted is usually pretty clear about delineating between who is intended to be the characters we're supposed to be supporting (with enough moral grayness to make them complex and interesting). So many of his characters are a great example of the difference between the narrative 'protagonist' and the narrative 'hero'. Going back to the more technical literary term, a protagonist* is the character the story is about, but they're not necessarily the same as the hero of the story. Yandere!Ivan was a great protagonist, but he's very obviously the villain of that plotline. If you want a classic example, Michael Corleone (The Godfather) is a villain protagonist.

*I'll point out that depending on what exact definition you're using for "protagonist" that you can argue that the listener character is supposed to be the main character. I don't think that fits because in many of Redacted's cases the listener falls into the "sexy lamp" trope, where by design they have few if any character traits of their own so we as listeners can project on them. To me, they're the point of view character, which though usually is not always the same as the protagonist. IMO, a protagonist should play a more active role in the story. Overall it's a fascinating way of capitalizing on the limitations of Mr. Redacted's chosen medium, and I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this phenomenon.

Most characters fall into either the 'hero' or 'villain' category. Characters like David, Asher, Vincent, Elliott, Guy, Ollie, and Gavin are all clearly hero protagonists**. Their respective stories revolve around their interactions with the listener character, they're the good, upstanding citizens that we want to support. They've got flaws, sure, but for the most part they're meant to be appealing characters that we agree with. Characters like Marcus, Yandere!Ivan, and Regulus are clearly the villain protagonists; they're the "bad guys", we want them to fail in whatever terrible thing they're trying to do. (Which isn't to say you can't enjoy their particular brand of twisted. Dark characters and themes are important and have their place).

**with the caveat that different focal length of a particular story can change who is the technical 'protagonist' and 'antagonist'. Kody, in his Water Elemental videos, is a 'villain protagonist'; when you look at the DAMN series overall he's better classified an antagonist of season 1. The fact that there's so many perspective changes across Mr. Redacted's overall work means that a lot of these terms can get muddied depending on which specific set of videos you're referring to.

Which brings me to the 3rd type of protagonist, the anti-hero. The anti-hero is a protagonist that the reader/listener wants to succeed, but generally lacks the traditional/universal moral traits that usually define the classic hero protagonist. Examples of an anti-hero protagonist include: Deadpool, Walter White (Breaking Bad), Huckleberry Finn. In particular, the mark of a well-written antihero protagonist is the fact that it can be difficult to distinguish them from a villain protagonist. Vega is a good example of this; in the Sadism's Hold/DAMN S1 series he's an antagonist for Freelancer and Yandere!Ivan. He graduates to a villain protagonist in early Carpe Deus, and with his stated goal of preventing another Cacophony he's morphing into an anti-hero in the more recent videos. I'm sure you can get hyper-specific if you start going through all the TVTropes pages to find the perfect flavor for individual characters, but most major protagonists can be classified as one of those three groups (with eternal, ongoing debates on where specifically you draw those particular lines based on your particular morals).

Bringing it back to Porter, I'm not sure that he's meant to be an anti-hero. He's charming, intelligent, capable, and likeable (to those not biased by his history like Vincent and Sam). But I don't think we're supposed to support him as a character overall. We've had too many "hero" characters come to conflict with him; Vincent, Asher, and Lovely explicitly. Even without getting into the fine distinctions between a protagonist/supporting character/POV character that's an awful lot of animosity from some very well established people. We might not know all of his goals/motives yet because they haven't been revealed to us (Porter wants to support William, wants to gain 'power', but why? What history drives him? What is his specific end goal with that power?) but his manipulation of other people, ruthlessness, and his own acknowledged boot-licking to increase his own social power disqualify him from a traditional "hero protagonist" role. An anti-hero is one we still are intended by the author to want to support, a character we want to see succeed. But because Mr. Redacted keeps putting Porter into direct conflict with more traditional protagonists it sets him up to be an opposing force; by definition he is an antagonist to our established hero protagonists.

I've talked a lot about the different types of protagonists and some of the minute distinctions between the different types of protagonists. Antagonists can be even more variable; you have your classic Devil, Sauron, and Darth Vader trying to kill your protagonist heroes. Technically speaking, antagonists don't necessarily have to be characters, either, they can be forces or concepts. An antagonist is just someone or something that opposes the protagonist. I won't divert into the different types of conflict in a story, but I'll point out how much more variety there is for your villains than your heroes based on their particular blend of moral alignment and narrative framing. (It's a lot easier to make things go wrong than it is to make things go well). You can also have sympathetic antagonists, where the villain has acceptable motives even if their methods are objectionable and cement their status as villains. Think the Wicked Witch of the West; Dorothy killed her sister, revenge is an entirely reasonable motive even if we're not supposed to be on her side. Adam and Quinn are the clearest unsympathetic antagonist villain characters in Redacted-verse. Blake is a sympathetic antagonist, vacillating between a villain and an anti-hero depending on whether we're looking at him from Sunshine or Bestie's POV.

As far as my initial claim that we're not supposed to like Porter, we have to consider which lens we're looking at him through. From Vincent's perspective he's an unredeemable asshole. William, however, clearly sees something in him. Other characters we trust that don't have that skewed perspective because of baggage, like Asher, don't like him either. While Porter is the protagonist of his own videos (you are the main character inside your own head) he's not being cast as a classical hero. Morality wise, even in his own story he's an anti-hero at best (he wasn't honestly trying to warn Treasure off, he was luring them in to SkySide). He's got the potential to be sympathetic (at least, according to Sam and William) but he's outnumbered in the narrative of protagonists (at the very least, by Vincent, Lovely, Asher, and there's evidence for Milo and David because of what he put Sweetheart up to) who consider him an antagonist, causing them problems or otherwise being obstructive. Considering the weight of numbers and length of existence in the overall story Mr Redacted is telling, Porter so far is generally being portrayed as an antagonist to our hero protagonists but not necessarily as a villain (like Vincent wants him to be) of Close Knit's caliber. So, this leaves him in a very interesting position on the morality/perspective spectrum. Essentially:

[Photo ID: a graph running from Villain to Hero along the horizontal axis and Protagonist to Antagonist along the vertical axis. Gavin, Lasko, Guy, Ollie, Caelum, David, Asher, Milo, Vincent (post-Adam) are in the Hero-Protagonist Corner. Regulus, Yandere!Ivan, Kody, Vega (DAMN S1) are in the Villain-Antagonist Corner. Vega (early) is in the Villain Protagonist Corner. Vincent (early) and Vega (later) are in the Protagonist Antihero area. Porter is in the Antagonist Antihero area. /end ID]

Because of these mostly negative relationships to our established characters I don't think he's meant to be "supportable". There's too many reasons someone could write him off as unredeemable, based off of his history, his current actions, and his morals. Mr Redacted obviously intended us to be pitted against certain characters like Adam, Kody, and Yandere!Ivan in the same way the author intends us to like and support wholesome characters like David, Huxley, and Guy. I think Porter was written in such a way that we're supposed to disapprove of him despite his likeability in the same way we're "supposed to" disapprove of most of the Imperium characters or Alexis. There's a glimmer of "redemption" deep down for how good they could be if the universe was a little kinder towards them and they didn't have to resort to morally questionable (at best) actions and perspectives, but harsh circumstances left them protecting themselves with sharp edges designed to make anyone who gets too close bleed. Character complexity is attractive, but that's not the same thing as being sympathetic.

After all of this I have to say, death of the author is 100% valid as a concept. At least half of a story is determined by the reader themselves, and this in particular is just my interpretation of these particular facts and classifications. Depending on how you want to weight certain factors and perspectives you can come to a completely different conclusion. By trying to define a particular character the act of applying a definition means you have to be reductive; making a decision on which box to put them in flattens out their complexities. You don't have to APPROVE of a character to LIKE them. There's also a difference between a morally GOOD character and a COMPELLING character. Not every character has to be redeemed, it's not a prerequisite for finding them interesting. Just because Mr Redacted wants us to hate certain characters doesn't mean everyone is obligated to; you're entitled to your own opinion.

#redacted asmr #redacted porter #character analysis #character criticism #to be safe #I'm trying to keep an open mind #I don't like him #but I find him fascinating #i want to put him under a microscope and study him #nuance is important #idk if anything I've said here about authorial intentions is contradicted by the podcast but #word of god is NOT the same thing as canon #i was thinking my thoughts and came up with this

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mollrat101 · 2 years

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How is it that I somehow felt sorrier for Deb in that FaceTime call with Marty than I did when he lied to her and then slept with her? And that was pretty fucking bad, not trying to diminish it.

I guess it’s because her relationship with Marty makes Deb act pathetic and that was painfully obvious in that moment.

Babe, he’s clearly just not that into you. You called him ‘your partner’ who was out playing golf. He’s not your partner. He has a girlfriend and it’s never you. When he said ‘she’s not the woman for me’ and then looked at you? Yeah, he was probably just lying to sleep with you. Harsh truth seems necessary at this point.

See this is my thing about Deb’s sexuality that I don’t understand. Why does Deborah accept her mediocre love life? Or she doesn’t push back against it that much. For a woman so determined and so exacting in what she wants, her sexuality is the big exception.

When it comes to romance and sex, Deborah doesn’t know what she wants and she doesn’t seem to know how to stand up for herself and her needs.

The writers have laid down the groundwork for this being a serious problem for Deb and I’m nervously waiting to see how they resolve it.

#hacks spoilers #hacks hbo #hbo hacks #and also ava why were you encouraging her?#are you not aware marty is a tool?#i'm trying to keep an open mind #i am not doing well lol #deborah vance

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kayvsdoodles · 9 months

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more guy doodles in my quest to decide if the cintiq is my mortal enemy or not

#so far: i hate it. but i have a 30 day return window so i'm going to keep an OPEN MIND #thanks to the ppl telling me it takes time to get used to. i am so bad at being patient but i will try o7

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sysig · 3 months

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Blind side (Patreon)

#Doodles #UT #Handplates #Sans #Papyrus #Gaster #Sans closing his good eye every once in a while and keeping his blind eye open - obviously he does so in-game as well so it's a style-match #It's just interesting in the context of him being textually-confirmed blind in Handplates hehe #There's a level of vulnerability there! Not more than closing both eyes around someone - and potentially also distrust!#''I'm baring myself blind right now but /you/ don't need to know that'' - it suits him ♪#Especially when he does it around Papyrus! Because obviously Papyrus knows about his partial blindness #But when he's trying to be duplicitous - the way he looks at him sidelong with his blind eye when he's trying to lie unsuccessfully ugh <3 #And again-again it being about how much he trusts Papyrus! That he can be a little lazy or spacey and Papyrus will help him!#Also something about his entire right side being impaired - pawing around with his plated hand for something he can't see on that side #The dynamics! Internal and external! Very good like them lots #And then there's Gaster lol ♪ Throw him into the mix I'm sure it won't make a mess at all haha #I guess he's visiting? Just spacing out - he and Sans have a lot on their minds - separately haha #I do love how Sans pushes Gaster to be kind to Papyrus - very deservedly! He wants Papyrus to be happy of course #And he's obviously still angry with Gaster a lot but how might that present itself when Papyrus is Papyrus at Gaster hehe #Even just in that small jokey way of ''you tryin' to step on my turf?'' hehehe #Especially since the comparison wouldn't even come up if he had two functioning eyes hm?? Right Gaster???? Lol #Speaking of that scene and Sans' partial blindness tho ughhughuhg <3 <3 The fact that Sans stands with Gaster to his blind side #It's the vulnerability/distaste/confidence of it all! He's grown up so much it's all right there in how he holds himself #That he either trusts Gaster enough not to attack him - starting to believe him - or that he has enough faith in himself to protect himself #And only looking at him with his peripherals unless he looks directly at him hghhhgh I am Normal about shot composition I swear lol #Also I like how that last panel turned out lol - Sans just appears at the bottom of the steps like how's it going. care to gtfo thx

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piinfeathers · 7 months

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i'm doing a once upon a time rewatch on twitter and i’ve started drawing captain swan obsessively again (i’ll post soon i swear) and i’m trying to put together my "official" cs drawing playlist and just

i’ve got all these songs by women just aching and tormented by their love and every time i hear them i can’t get over how much they are just killian jones songs

#like killian would absolutely just lie on the floor listening to phoebe bridgers and just WALLOW #while emma would listen to blondie or joan jett or something and just poke her head in the room like babe? u good?#actually that might be giving emma too much credit because she definitely listens to dad rock compulsively #anyway i need y’all to keep and open mind about this playlist ok? jdjsks #it's mostly rock and folk and a smidge of punk and i'm trying not to completely fill it with taylor as well even tho i want to #captain swan

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sskk-manifesto · 10 months

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Have you ever seen a cuter beast

#I'm BACK I'm not home but I hope I can keep going for another while #atsushi nakajima #bsd #bungou stray dogs #bsd s5 #bsd season 5 #atsushi frames #Posting when no one is online but my bsd episode posting was cut short and I've been screaming inside the whole day #Trying to keep up with conversation like my mind wasn't constantly replying the sskk opening on loop

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angelsdean · 4 months

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oh i wanna shake sam. his little outburst at dean when he finds out what john said before he died....what john put on dean isn't dean's fault and dean is right to want to lay low and stay out of harm's way. and sam, insecure and afraid, is hurling accusations and blame at dean, putting words in dean's mouth, and dean is repeatedly shouting "i didn't say that!" re: sam becoming evil but sam won't listen to a damn thing above his own internal thoughts

#dean shouldering all this weight and trying to be strong and finally deciding to share what's been weighing him down #what's been making him want to give up #what sam has been ASKING dean to share since john died #and he finally opens up and sam blows up and makes it abt his feelings. like dean literally wants to just keep sam safe #and wants to make sure he Never has to kill his brother #and sam's mind immediately jumps to 'dean must not trust me. dean sees me as a ticking time bomb. i could go darkside. i'm a monster'#and dean hasn't said or expressed any of that.#vics spn rewatch

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fyodcrs · 6 months

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hi! fellow fyozai enjoyer, I saw your post about fyozai and how you disliked the finale, and I have thoughts about how I actually loved the finale for fyozai (I mean this /lh, it’s fully my opinion)

the basis of it is what Dazai tells Fyodor, and a theory I saw around chapter 101-ish of the manga.

Dazai tells Fyodor: “you don’t trust anything you can’t manipulate”

and the theory I saw had it’s basis centered around the fact that Chuuya was a wildcard for both Dazai and Fyodor. now, chapter 101, the fandom’s assumptions were a) Chuuya is actually a vampire, and b) Dazai just tried to kill Chuuya via drowning

the theory basically said, SKK have a strong bond right? an extremely popular theory around that time was that Dazai was trying to drag Chuuya out of the vampirism via his speech, possibly coded, and the water and drowning. so the theory said that what if Dazai was trying to use their bond, and Chuuya’s own willpower, to drag Chuuya out of vampirism and have him be an element of surprise against Fyodor - e.g. Chuuya is pulled out, recognizes Dazai’s plan, and plays along to eventually betray Fyodor, being the closest to him physically, and because Fyodor is already convinced of his control of Chuuya.

essentially, Dazai relies on his bond with Chuuya, his ally and human nature, while Fyodor is so focused on control that he is caught off guard because of Chuuya’s willpower

which is what happens in canon, sort of - Dazai relies on his allies and human nature, while Fyodor is so certain of his plan (he says it himself- his plan is perfect) that he doesn’t question Chuuya’s vampirism. he is so convinced that the vampirism is absolute that why would he need to check?

and then Dazai wins. and he tells Fyodor, “you don’t trust anything you can’t manipulate”

Dazai doesn’t either, or he didn’t, and here’s where I love the ending so much and what it means for fyozai - neither of them trust what they can’t manipulate. but Dazai did, has been doing since he joined the Agency, and that’s how he won - he grew out of this belief that Fyodor still currently has, also aligning with their fundamental differences in one belief, the value of human life + experiences

anyway. that’s my opinion on why I actually love the ending sm and don’t understand why so many people hate it. “how did Fyodor not notice Chuuya put on a Halloween costume” that’s the POINT - it highlights fyozai’s fundamental difference in belief, Dazai’s growth, how Dazai has pushed past that blockage that Fyodor still has and which is why he lost, ALSO highlighting how they are the same person expressed differently in one root belief. which makes them even CRUNCHIER in my opinion

ty for reading, you’re so correct that not enough people enjoy fyozai 😔✌️(and if any of this came off harsh please know I don’t mean it to be 😭)

Hi, fellow fyozai enjoyer! Thank you for sharing your perspective on the finale! I love hearing other people's opinions, so I appreciate you throwing your two cents in. And no worries, none of that came off harsh. 😆 I'm about to rant here, so I hope I don't come off as harsh!

I think you're spot on in what Asagiri/the anime writers were going for. However, there are several fundamental problems I have with it, from a character perspective and from a storytelling perspective. My issues with the finale really don't have anything to do with fyozai; my issues are with the writing, especially the writing of Fyodor's character. Because the thing is, it makes sense in theory, but it doesn't work the way they did it.

In theory, it makes perfect sense that Dazai "won" because he trusts his allies and Fyodor does not. It's even set up in these scenes:

In the first, Dazai and Fyodor are (quite hilariously) telling each other how they manipulate others. Dazai acts the fool, pretends to be lazy and unengaged so his "workers" have to step up and do something themselves. That's how he plays puppet master behind the scenes. Fyodor takes control of his pawns by leaving them no choice. That's how he plays puppet master behind the scenes. Dazai's method requires a lot less control and a lot more trust.

In the second, Dazai is saying that the world is chaotic and all of their "ingenious plans" don't amount to much (except when it's Dazai's "ingenious plan" to dress Chuuya up in a Halloween costume!), challenging Fyodor's idea that he can impose his own order on the world (which is exactly what Fyodor is trying to do, though he can't see that - he isn't doing God's will, he's only doing his own; the order he is trying to impose upon the world by using the Book is not God's, it is his own).

Personally, I think "Dazai wins because he has friends, Fyodor loses because he doesn't" is kind of a boring way to go with both Fyodor's character and with the conflict between him and Dazai. Considering this is BSD, where everyone and their boss gets a redemption arc of some sort, and considering this a character based (however loosely) off of Fyodor Dostoevsky, a man who wrote numerous novels exploring deeply complex philosophical and religious ideas about human nature and redemption, I had hoped that Fyodor's character would have a redemption arc of his own. I really hoped that he wouldn't end up being the one character in this series treated like a stereotypical villain. Alas, here we are...

But whatever, they set this up, and again, theoretically, it makes sense. It works for their characters, and I don't mind the idea that Fyodor loses to Dazai because of Dazai's trust in others - in theory. You are certainly right that it makes fyozai all the crunchier!

But it just doesn't work the way they did it. It doesn't work because Fyodor does not actually have any direct control over the vampires.

Unless I missed something about there being a line on the Page that says "the vampires shall obey Fukuchi Ouchi, Bram Stoker, and Fyodor Dostoevsky, and no one else", Fyodor does not control the vampires. Fukuchi does, because Fukuchi has control of Bram. Or Fukuchi is supposed to, because Fukuchi is supposed to have control of Bram. The only reason the vampires would obey Fyodor at all is because, presumably (though I don't think this is ever stated), Fukuchi ordered them to through Bram and Bram's Ability.

This means that in order for Fyodor to use any of the vampires, including Chuuya, as his pawns, he would need to have complete trust in Fukuchi. He would need to trust that Fukuchi hasn't fucked anything up, has not lost control of Bram, and that whatever Dazai was plotting with his buddies outside the prison has not caught up to Fukuchi and exposed him or taken him down. And Fyodor knows that Dazai is plotting, he knows that Dazai is in contact with the outside. He knows Ranpo is out there, and that Dazai is relying in particular on Ranpo.

And he was able to predict Ranpo's moves at least up to trying to intercept the One Order. So he also knew that Fukuchi had been/would be discovered and that the ADA were actively trying to thwart him. But he carried on his plan to use Chuuya, because he still trusted that Fukuchi had control of Bram.

In other words, he was trusting Fukuchi in exactly the same way Dazai was trusting Ranpo and the others.

It doesn't matter if Fyodor and Fukuchi are "friends," or if they're real "allies" - the point is that Fyodor did not actually have any direct control over the vampires, or over Fukuchi. Fukuchi even says in the anime that he "sent him (Fyodor) to prison" to ensure that Fyodor could not interfere with his actual plan - which was, of course, not Fyodor's actual plan. But Fyodor trusted that things were still going according to his plan, even though he couldn't actually manipulate things directly from where he was. Exactly like Dazai.

I get the whole "Fyodor thinks his plan is perfect" thing, but in this plan, Fukuchi had all of the power over the vampires, not Fyodor. Sure, you can argue Fyodor thought he had Fukuchi under his thumb (which, by the way, I find very hard to believe, because from what Fukuchi tell Fukuzawa, Fyodor knew what Fukuchi really wanted, and made a deal with him to achieve that; therefore, he knew Fukuchi had his own motives), but that doesn't matter - what matters is that he placed control of the pawns he intended to use in the hands of someone else.

That ruins Dazai's whole "you don't trust anything you can't manipulate" - because he wasn't manipulating the vampires, and he couldn't manipulate Fukuchi from prison.

And he purposefully put himself in prison as part of his "perfect plan," so he intentionally put himself in a position where he could not directly manipulate his most important pawn: Fukuchi.

So the whole "Fyodor loses because he doesn't trust others" is bunk precisely because they used the vampires as the key to Fyodor's downfall. Fyodor literally cannot use the vampires as part of his plans without trusting an ally - Fukuchi. The idea behind Fyodor's downfall is fine. The execution is what doesn't make any goddamn sense.

It also doesn't work for me because this is Fyodor we're talking about here. Are you seriously telling me I should buy that Fyodor was fooled by contacts and fake fangs? Like for real? If it were anyone else, sure. But Fyodor? I wouldn't buy Dazai or Ranpo falling for that, either. I don't care how much Fyodor believes in his own perfect plan. He still should be able to tell the difference between someone who has been turned into a vampire and someone who has not. Especially since Dazai says he and Chuuya have pulled this kind of thing before. I'm expected to believe it never occurred to Fyodor they'd do something like that? Why, because he's not a soukoku shipper?

I wish we had gotten Dazai bringing Chuuya back to his senses through their bond, because that would make a whole hell of a lot more sense than this being an elaborate act - and it would actually give credence to the idea that Fyodor's desire for complete control is his undoing.

And while we're talking about the narrative problems, let's talk about that hand injury that's so important to all of this. I already talked about this in another post, but Fyodor deciding to let the vampires pilot the helicopter because his hand injury made it impossible for him to do so doesn't make sense to me, either, because the hand is clearly shown to still be mobile:

I know there's a big difference between piloting a helicopter and pressing a button or letting someone else hold your hand, but the hand is obviously not useless. Why would Fyodor be willing to put himself at the mercy of his pawns if he can still use his hand, wounded or not? Again, when he's not actually the one controlling them?

Obviously, this isn't going to be a plot point in the manga because Fyodor has no hand injury in the manga, but this was another thing that bothered the hell out of me. They really just had Fyodor act stupid all of a sudden so he could get himself killed.

Again I hope I'm not sounding too harsh! I'm not trying to attack you at all!! But do you see why I have such a problem with the finale? I get what it was trying to do, but the way it was done just doesn't make any sense, imho. Now, if they had done something with Sigma and Fyodor, like I thought was going to be the case...

I do really appreciate your opinion on the finale, and I don't want to suggest you're wrong or anything. I'm just saying that to me, there are massive issues with it. I just think it's really bad writing.

More than that, it felt so cheap to kill Fyodor off that way. It didn't feel like a big deal, it just felt rushed and - well, cheap. Fukuchi's death has the same problem, but at least with Fukuchi they took the time to flesh out his character, give us answers to the remaining questions about his past and his motives, and give him an emotional send-off. They just blew Fyodor up and went, "Well on to the next!"

But!! With time to reflect, I think the people saying that Fyodor isn't really dead at all are probably right. There are just too many unanswered questions; it doesn't make narrative sense to actually kill him off at this point.

And we don't know how the manga is going to go yet. If the manga does follow the anime, I think it's a pretty good bet that when Sigma wakes up, the secrets he learned about Fyodor will be revealed, and then - well, I guess we'll see.

In the meantime, though, I'm going to continue to (mostly) pretend the finale didn't happen sdfghjghj

Again, thank you for sharing! 💕💖 I think you made some good points, but I hope I was able to explain why I disliked the finale so much :/

*hugs* ଘ(੭ˊᵕˋ)੭* ੈ✩‧˚ ♡♡

#asks #fyozai #Bungou Stray Dogs #idk I just don't think any of it worked for me #my only thought when it ended was 'who wrote this shit??'#the writing in BSD has never been perfect but this was just bad (in my opinion)#I'm trying to keep an open mind until we see how it all plays out though #otp: cat and mouse #BSD #Fyodor #Dazai

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bookwyrminspiration · 11 months

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i've been having some discourse thoughts recently and going back and forth, and I don't really have a final conclusion at the moment so I'm just writing it out to try and make sense of it. I am not intending to get into heated arguments or cause problems, I'm genuinely just trying to question thoughts and beliefs I've been holding to that i picked up from others to be certain whether or not they're solid and I want to continue in that manner because reflection, introspection, and critical thinking are good practices. and posting it because consulting and engaging with others and perspectives outside your own is helpful. so don't mind me trying to sort myself out it's a genuinely earnest attempt to properly reason it through

the crux of it is that I realized it seems hypocritical of me to say I firmly believe in shipping and letting ship, supporting fiction's right to be fucked up and unhealthy, controlling your own experiences, for people to do what they want with fiction because fiction is not reality and should be a safe space where you can explore fucked up things, agree that policing what you can and can't do with fiction is a dangerously slippery slope, and then also turn around and condemn wylinh/wylinh shippers

I don't like the ship myself, I've made numerous posts discussing why I find it harmful--the main thing being its an adult x minor ship (Alden and Della's relationship is completely different, do not bring it up here as a counterargument. you can ask me to explain further if you don't understand). But people are allowed to engage with things that would be harmful or predatory or questionable or etc. in fiction; it's fake. People have said it before, but writing about murder doesn't mean you want to commit murder and all that.

So then since its okay to ship fucked up things because this is fiction, the problem with wylinh seems to become that people ship it in the same manner they do other ships without adult/minor dynamics, not with the understanding that it's got questionable elements. That it's okay to ship fucked up things but you have to do it a certain way that I think is acceptable (you have to know its not really healthy irl), and I don't think that's a mindset I want to have? That people's shipping needs to meet a standard I set? Even if I don't like it? I'm not arbitrator I don't get to decide those kinds of things for others, I just get to decide for me

And another big argument that's been made (including by me) is that children/young teens read these books and find fandom spaces even if they're not supposed to be here, and that that exposure could normalize a harmful age dynamic. Because while Wylie and Linh may be lovely people, they're fictional and it's not reflective of how an age gap like theirs would look irl and children could end up missing red flags of predatory people in real life by thinking of it like idealized fiction. But think of the children rhetoric is one that has been often criticized as cover for more malicious intentions (such as in politics) with the convenient safe fail that if you disagree, you must not care about children.

Part of the critique of that rhetoric is also that the actions being defended don't actually help or protect children. So I'm now wondering, does trying to stop (I can't think of a better word at the moment) wylinh shippers actually achieve that goal of protecting impressionable kids from idolizing an unrealistic relationship, or does it just motivate them to hide it and not trust the people who are, to them, unjustifiably criticizing them?

Wylinh is a widely disliked ship in the fandom, and that's okay, we're all allowed our opinions including negative ones. I just feel as though I'm contradicting myself on some points and want to straighten them out for myself. I don't like Wylinh, I don't ship it, I don't engage with any Wylinh content because of the aforementioned reasons. But my personal dislike shouldn't shape fandom spaces and others' actions, and making sure people are shipping things the "right" way feels like a much more harmful slope.

And if the best course of action to align with that is to just focus on myself, not engage with what I don't like, and politely share my thoughts without forcing them on others or trying to control their actions when the opportunity arises (though maybe this isn't the best course of action, there may be others), that makes this whole post feel redundant because that's...already what I'm doing. I suppose this is just to change my internal perspective not my outward actions? My intentions?

There's no real final conclusion to this, it's just me going "hmm, I've been criticizing wylinh shippers for shipping what I think is a harmful ship, but I also believe in shipping and let ship and allowing fiction to explore harmful things and not controlling others. can these co-exist or do I have to rethink something?"

and I think the answer is I have to rethink something? and that something is criticizing people for shipping wylinh. i still maintain my critiques and dislikes of the ship, but that's a separate thing. i find it more important to maintain and respect individuals right to engage with fiction of all sorts how they want to, without control from others

there's probably a million ways to negatively misinterpret things I've said, so just know all of this is genuine reflection made in good faith. i am earnestly trying to figure it out, and if anyone has input or opinions or perspectives they'd like to share you're welcome to, provided its also in good faith.

alright cool that's all, please do not be mean to me as I try to be a better person because I know its a discourse heavy topic :)

#kotlc discourse #discourse #i can't help but feel like I haven't worded this well and its all going to go wrong if I post this #but also. i am not going to let myself be ashamed of questioning things. even if I come to a similar conclusion at the end #so. don't be like 'how could you entertain these ideas--' because you need to think through both sides to best understand your own position #and i'm trying to figure out what that is #i don't want to just go along with what others say I want to understand where I stand and why #and right now its that I think I thought of wylinh shippers in a way that contradicted other beliefs and values I hold #and I want to correct that #so. this post is me trying to figure it out #i keep writing tags to stall because I'm nervous you'll all hate me for this #but like I said. won't be ashamed of questioning things #also am open to other perspectives and changing my mind #i can learn #augh this is. stressful. be nice please I'm trying to be a good person #long post

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fudge24-7 · 3 months

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Wondering if tumblr is really good for me

#fudge does a talky talk #idk im just thinking #i keep on going to reply sections (bad idea)#and find myself getting into arguments #but what im most concerned about is how #idk harsh i feel im becoming?#like i try my best to somewhat be polite even in repkies but I find myself failing #and i feel like the hostility in tumblr reply sections in general might be a part of that #idk i probably just need to stay away from replies #i geuss whats concerning as well is that i usually tried to avoid arguments in the past #it felt like a pointless waste of energy that wouldn't change the other oersons mind anyway and woukd juetclead to anger on both sides #maybe in some ways its better that I'm more open to the idea people won't always be closed minded but #idk if thats worth the amount of aggression that usually comes with using tumblr reoky sections #or if replying and argueing at all is really worth it #or maybe I'm just blaming tumblr for a me problem idk #because I'll admit deep down kindness is not my first instinct #it is unfortunately to insult and attack perceived threats #i try to manage that but i don't always succeed #maybe tumblr doesn't help but idk #I know I don't usually make posts like these but #i geuss i should in case this leads to me not using tumblr as much? idk if thats going to haooen honestly but I'm thinking #In case it does i felt i should post this so people would udnerstand whats going on #i geuss i don't exactly owe anyone that but #I also wanted to get this off my chest #the more i think about it i think this is more of a 'tumblr bringing out the worst in me' then 'tumblr making me act a way i usually wouldn #idk what haplened with the reoly sections though i really used to not do that #geuss I've been desperate for human interaction? and getting into arguments is easier then starting a freindly conversation with someone #and idk maybe I've been feeling frusterated and like I can't really express my feelings to the people around me #so I've also been craving being able to actually say I don't agree with something #vent post

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lucem-stellarum · 6 months

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So I actually wanted to go through and listen to the video, "Your Vampire Boyfriend Explains His Turning". It doesn't exactly match up to the way they tell it in "The Vampire Boys Have It Out". I'd recommend you go watch both videos back to back because it's fascinating, and frustrating. Redacted is contradicting himself on some things to push hard on the idea that both Porter and Vincent are in the wrong. I'm not saying that Vincent is perfect, but the way Erik is going about framing the circumstances of their fight and changing previously established canon so "they both have their reasons" isn't the greatest. Details and receipts under the cut because of length, and because it gets critical.

When Vincent's talking about the circumstances of his turning to Lovely, he says at 5:00 that "all he's had is the clan, and they already knew the story. Will had told them." That the only person he's ever explained it all too was Sam, because William told everyone else on his behalf. Which, first of all, makes it sound like the clan was a lot more supportive overall and a lot more informed than ANYONE implied in the later video. Even if William edited out a lot of the details there's some things you just can't get around. Like the fact that William, who is old blood and promised to never turn another progeny, and so needed a damned good reason to break that vow. The fact that neither of them had ever met before that day. Vincent's refusal to discuss the exact circumstances of his turning to the rest of the clan, the fact that William had to list Vincent a missing person rather than letting the department handle the human authorities around his turning. The fact that Vincent was uninformed/unempowered before this and had to be introduced to the entire magical world from the ground up. He couldn't have known anything about who William was as a powerful political force, the advantage that being turned by old blood gives him, Vincent literally couldn't have arranged his turning for his own selfishness because he didn't even know that was an option, let alone the bonuses of having William specifically as a maker.

There's so much evidence that Vincent's turning was impulsive, any combination of the above facts implies that it wasn't a choice on Vincent's part, let alone something that he would try to "earn". Plus, William bought WonderWorld because of the lawsuits after the very public accident to be their home base. People saw Vincent get on the coaster, that he was riding it just before it crashed, and that's the same day the clan gets a brand new prince that matches the description of a "body that was never found"? Even if William didn't blatantly spell it out for the more oblivious members of the clan, it's SO obvious what happened from knowledge available to them. An "impulsive" turning isn't ever going to be a happy story.

Speaking of "publicly available knowledge"... we can argue about how much of the full truth is available throughout the general clan population (however many people that may be), but if Porter is close enough to William to be offered his last name, and close enough to know secrets that Vincent isn't aware of, shouldn't he have known William and been part of the clan long enough to have been around for the original explanation for Vincent's abrupt turning? Let alone, potentially, being closer to William and getting more personal details, at least from William's side of the story? Getting a new progeny isn't a decision to be made lightly. Porter very heavily implied that he's known William for longer than Vincent has; since Vincent's turning was the first time that William and Vincent had met, then Porter's been part of the clan longer than Vincent has.

Next, we know that both Porter and Adam were foundlings, but considering how fundamentally eternal and unchanging vampires are, it seems odd that there'd be such a population turnover in the clan that Vincent was tormented by "the rest of the clan" (per Sam, when he said it wasn't his place to tell other people's private stories at ~18:00 in the later video). Vincent was turned Feb 13, 2000. Sam is turned by Alexis in 2008 (per the timeline). That's not long enough for immortal vampires to forget Vincent's story. Even if there are a LOT of new vampires in the clan over time, Vincent is the golden boy, the prince. It's natural he'd be the subject of gossip, and the circumstances of his turning would be pretty good fodder for the rumor mill even if he doesn’t talk about it himself and not everyone is as principled as Sam is. If some of the newbies (or Porter) were getting prissy about Vincent never having to take his turn guarding WonderWorld, just the fact that he died there doesn't seem like it would be uncommon knowledge among the clan.

With how rare vampires are supposed to be, even without specific numbers and censuses it doesn't make sense. The Solaires are supposed to be the largest and most influential vampire clan in Dahlia, sure, but population-wise that still can't be that many people. Either the clan grows slowly enough that word about what actually happened to Vincent can get out and corrected, (and the minority of new people who don't know better perpetuating baseless rumors face charges of slander against the prince) or the clan should be large enough to effectively patrol WonderWorld without Vincent needing to take regular shifts. (which... wasn't Vincent on patrol the night he first met Lovely?) 'Duke' Sam has to patrol sometimes, but does Alexis take shifts too? If the clan doesn't have a large enough population to support even the "royalty" from skipping that duty (except for Vincent), then they can't have that many members. By that logic, the clan is small enough that "everyone knows each other's faces" and so why is Porter bitching about the unfairness of Vincent having the "perks" of the Solaire blood and name when he ought to know damn well why Vincent of all people generally avoids that particular duty?

Again, Porter was almost certainly around to watch Vincent join the clan. Why doesn't he know about the circumstances of Vincent being invoked for a single time? Vincent tried to starve himself to death because he refused to feed on humans. William couldn't convince Vincent to feed of his own volition, so he invoked him. That is a seriously drastic measure to take for someone who "wanted to be turned". Alexis' many invocations seem to be common knowledge among the upper echelons of the clan that we see in videos; if Porter is close enough to have the Solaire name and be part of the "family" and is close enough to William to know "more than could fill the city of Dahlia", why is he so out of the loop around Vincent? Porter is jealous, not stupid nor blind.

Porter's comments about the rumors that popped up when William 'brought home the new baby?' More proof that he HAD to have been with the clan at that point. How else would he have heard all those rumors? Porter was jealous of Vincent's circumstance immediately after his induction to the clan and didn't hesitate to start "tearing Vincent down" from the moment they met for the crime of "not being grateful enough" to William. Porter's accusations that Vincent wanted to be turned by William to get the associated power and prestige of being turned by "old blood" is proven to be a lie (again, ignoring the fact that he was uninformed before being turned) because Vincent avoided events (like the Summit) for years longer than most makers would have allowed their progeny. If Vincent wanted that prestige, what possible reason would he have to avoid events where he could flaunt it, and potentially acquire more?

I'll admit, we DON'T have a definitive date for when Porter joins the clan, or anything at all about Porter and William's relationship. The timeline website hasn't been updated with Porter's information yet. Even still, William offered Porter the Solaire name; that's supposed to be some great honor not offered lightly. That level of trust takes a LONG time to build. Porter had to have been part of the clan to see Vincent in the depths of his depressive and suicidal ideation, to criticize Vincent in the specific ways and faults that he does. The way the argument video is set up, though, it sounds like Porter was both there to torment Vincent at every turn from the beginning but also not there to miss every blatant fact of the situation around Vincent joining the clan.

Porter's claim that "all [Vincent] ever did was moan about how terrible it was to be you. As if we all didn't register in your mind as people with our own far worse problems" (15:00) is just so hypocritical considering his apparently willful blindness to Vincent's own deep seated issues. After having it pointed out to him, and being punched by Lovely, he sees it clearly enough to apologize and sound like he means it, but then why didn't he see ANY of the points from my first paragraph in the first place? Porter saying that "he didn't know" about how traumatic Vincent's turning was in the later video, while his voice sounds genuine, is either blatantly false or things are being retconned in order to make the feud between the two of them more dramatic.

Some of Porter's accusations do hold weight. I'm not going to lie and pretend that Vincent is some perfect angel in all of this. Vincent is arrogant, self centered, and blind to his own privilege. He used to be a manipulative ass. He's favored, powerful, and lucky in certain ways that Porter isn't, but that's not his doing nor his fault. But Porter's comment about Vincent's "egregious actions" is so vague as to be meaningless to me; if it's not worth elaborating on here why is it part of this 20+ year grudge match y'all have going on? Vincent couldn't choose his maker, he didn't know a single thing about William when they met and he was turned. The fact that Vincent has the self control to only "need" to be invoked once shouldn't be a criticism. There's years that they're skimming over for the sake of limiting it down to a 20 minute conversation for watchability. But I hate retconning, I hate this sort of character self-contradiction and hypocrisy especially to push "both of them are in the wrong", I hate that Sam is just being played as a mouthpiece to force this "grey morality" (12:38, 13:24) and defend both sides, and I'm not going to lie I expected Redacted to do better than this. Trying to equate Vincent's jealousy that Porter was well-adjusted to being a vampire with Porter's complaints that Vincent was traumatized and suicidal because of the circumstances of his turning is not okay.

14:30 Porter says: I said you were arrogant, and favored. That from the moment you were turned you've never wanted for anything. You'd never been invoked into doing something horrific for your maker's amusement. You've never been beaten within an inch of your life for the slightest transgression. You've never gotten so much as a slap on the wrist no matter how egregious your actions. You never had to guard WonderWorld. You'd never had to do anything. And still all you ever did was [look down on us]... You were turned by old blood... and didn't even have the tact to show a little gratitude for it.

19:30 Vincent says: I did look down on you. I hated that you seemed to enjoy being a vampire so much. I hated that you seemed so at peace with who you were. And what we had to do to survive. You made everything look so easy. And that made me feel broken. Even more than I already felt.

You can't have it both ways, Porter. Either you want Vincent to be just as broken and mistreated as you imply you were, or you want him to be happy and grateful about his "perfect" life. You can't complain that he never recognized that other people had far greater problems when you're the one who ignored that he's practically screaming with every action, every fact, every unsaid word that he's literally being forced against his will to stay alive, both by turning and by invocation until it literally hit you in the face. You don't have the right to tell Vincent, as a (formerly) uninformed unempowered human, that he shouldn't have manipulated something he didn't even know existed into getting the power you envy so badly. Porter was jealous of Vincent because of his circumstance first, and that jealousy made Vincent's every legitimate fault unforgivable and threw in a lot more illegitimate criticisms just for good measure.

I'm not going to pretend like I have the right answers for this, how it "should have gone". Everyone is going to have their own preferences, and at the end of the day this is Redacted's story. He makes the final decision. But I do have the right to point out flaws and criticize where I think he could have done better. Maybe he wanted Porter to be a hypocritical, jealous, contradictory character. Maybe he legitimately did just forget that the rest of the clan already knew (or easily could have put together) the messy details when he wrote that Porter didn't know better. He could have written it any way he wanted to, but he chose this way.

#redacted asmr #redacted vincent #redacted porter #media criticism #character analysis #i was thinking my thoughts and came up with this #I reserve the right to change my opinions if we get new information #I'm trying my best to keep an open mind about Porter and who he is as a character #but can you tell that retconning and hypocrisy makes me very angry?#this is my opinion #feel free to disagree #also #vincent changed his ways for the better after meeting lovely #do we have any proof that porter changed his ways and improved on his flaws #like sam hoped he did?#because from the way he's treating Treasure it doesn't seem like it

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