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iamafanofcartoons · 1 year

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RWBY is a good show that suffers too much hatred: The weird concept of taking hatred of a piece of media, and calling it criticism, or "Expectations vs Headcanons" type of criticism. Or: Why having nothing nice to say is the equivalent of hating rather than criticizing.

OPENING REMARKS

Nobody is saying that RWBY is on the same level of ATLA, or FMAB, or stuff like that.

But many people who watch RWBY past Volume 3 still have an appreciation for the show. But when we try to discuss our love for the show? How many people have told us that we are wrong for watching RWBY past volume 3?

Many people who refuse to watch RWBY, do so simply because they were told by people who came up with one reason or another why they didn't like the show, those people proceeded to then dislike RWBY without ever having watched it.

Comparisons of Other Media

Taking things out of context is not criticism, but criticizing things from an out of context perspective IS HATRED

Bumbleby: Criticism Vs Hate

Expectations? Or Headcanons? And the difference between them.

Cake Analogy

Criticism by itself is not bad, but what is the difference between criticism and hatred?

The Hatedom exists, it is not a boogeyman, and the defenders of RWBY are NOT “Toxic positivity”

Conclusion

COMPARISONS OF OTHER MEDIA THAT HAVE SIMILAR THEMES AND SIMILAR TREATMENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA

If you've watched shows like "She-Hulk" or "The Sandman" maybe you've noticed a lot of people complaining that "Shows these days have become too woke"...but what is woke?

Female protagonists doing the same things and going through the same struggles as what male protagonists have done? Okay, sure, that doesn't mean the writing is going to be perfect, but why do so many people claim that Jennifer Walters in She-Hulk "emasculates men?"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/08/18/she-hulk-is-getting-review-bombed-even-harder-than-ms-marvel/

Let's go over Ms. Marvel, a Muslim female super hero.

https://thedirect.com/article/ms-marvel-review-bombing-actress

Review Bombing

Captain Marvel

https://www.inverse.com/article/53523-captain-marvel-rotten-tomatoes-review-bombing-explained

More Review Bombing

over 200 people review-bombed RWBY Volume 8 on IMDB.

A show with female protagonists and LGBT themes included apparently gets attacked. This is a common theme here.

On Social media (excluding Tumblr), you can't scroll past the posts/videos on RWBY without seeing at least one or several of the following:

A. Monty wouldn't want this (it's been 7 freaking years and they still use this one)

B. Let RT and the show die once and for all

C. Make it a real anime

D. The fanfiction of this male character is better than the LGBT or female ones

E. The cries about the male villains and the sheer misogyny from men and women towards fictional female characters.

Very few shows have a sub market of people making 2 hour criticism videos or have to separate out a criticism subreddit, and most of these shows have a much larger viewership than RWBY. Is there an overprotectiveness, sure, but its also kinda obvious that RWBY also gets more hate than other shows of its popularity.

And it should be mentioned that R/RWBY allows R/RWBYCritics to flood it and R/FNKI with hatred regularly. You know which two people I am referring to.

Since season 4 one of the accusations has been that continuing to like the show is insulting Monty Oum. Some of the hate against the show was dual hate against the creators, and so naturally the defenders of the show also defended the creators.

So then does that make the fandoms of one piece, attack on titan, tower of god, etc overprotective, or is it a re-occurring thing where these subs are usually made out of good intentions that have easily dissolved into attack the show/it’s creators?

I don’t know of many communities where the hate and dislike of where the series is going is so prevalent that Subreddit mods have to make a rule to prevent people from saying that “the show goes against the creator’s wish” and have YouTubers that constantly make post about any little thing happening and turn it into “that’s why this series and it’s company is dying #356”(hero hei for example). The community isn’t against criticism as much as the RWDE community thinks, but the way it’s worded. If most arguments and criticisms were made to be respectful and include the good in a show, instead of being “this is why crwby is inept dumbasses that should sell the series to someone else and anyone that enjoys *x sis equally as stupid” than this problem wouldn’t be as prevalent, but most criticisms made are ones that regularly attack the crew or audience for certain aspects. Even some of the most analytical criticisms of other weird treat the people that enjoy it and it’s creators with some level of respect.

Generalizations are made by what is usually seen by the majority. Not to disagree that we should see these more case by case but it’s seen as such a problem because of the influx of situations like the one I’ve mention above, whether on here or other platform. People like “all you write” who make great analysis/ critic videos are perfect examples of how these discussions should go: explain the fact, talk about the good and bad done(because criticisms should contain both, not just what is bad/disliked) and separate parts for how they feel about certain moments. Most criticisms just come off like eruptionfang’s: crass, missing the point most of the time with actual bits of criticisms littered in between.

Any time RWBY comes up unprompted by myself or a fan of the show, I always see people chime in negatively. I do not see that with practically any other popular but criticized show. I think the only other one that comes to mind is Sword Art Online. That kind of response to something you like everywhere you go is rough, no matter how you slice it. It can make you feel unwelcome or wrong just for liking/loving what you like/love.

Even if you know you have every right to enjoy it, seeing that gut reaction as the prevailing mentality starts to make you feel like something is wrong with you. This is a fact of human psychology. The negative response is also so common because you can't speak up in defense of it without being "shouted down." It allows this behavior to continue to occur while it leaves those who enjoy it and don't blow a gasket to sit in silence while people mock their interests. 2 years ago Hbomberguy ripped open a can of hate against RWBY and its writers that left the worldwide web mocking everyone for enjoying RWBY even 2 years after that hate video was aired. Try talking about RWBY in R/RWBY while defending it? R/RWBYCritics will harass, and then post your post, to their subreddit, encouraging hate against you.

Consider the fact that of all of the people who do nothing but post negativity about the show, it's a person who disagrees with that negativity whom Critics take issue with.

Objectively speaking, the level of hate I see the show get from some viewers is not proportional to their actual valid criticisms of the show or otherwise.

TAKING THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT IS NOT CRITICISM, BUT CRITICIZING SOMETHING FROM AN OUT OF CONTEXT PERSPECTIVE IS HATRED

So a female protagonist defeating a male villain is bad writing? Remember how Yang and Blake fought Adam? Adam had destroyed their school, tried to destroy another one, tried to have Blake's parents killed for getting in his way, had stabbed Blake through the stomach for leaving his violent faction, had cut off Yang's arm, and had tried to blow up a train of unarmed civilians.In V6, Adam tried to kill them both. Both Yang and Blake kept offering him the opportunity to leave them alone. Adam was so eager for revenge (aka, NOT stalking ex, but just wanting revenge) that he refuses all offers.Yang and Blake had no choice but to kill him.

How many times have you heard people claiming that Adam should have been spared, or taken to Atlas, or that Yang and Blake were wrong? It just doesn't make sense.

Now we go to Volume 7-8.

RWBY had made several plans based off of Ironwood's single plan.

Let's use the Train analogy. The city of Atlas is the train. Mantle is the people on a single track, there is no second track. And Salem's faction are people trying to get on board the train while attacking and threatening the people of mantle on that track.Ironwood, in wanting to Abandon Mantle, we'll say is willing to roll through them. RWBY halts the train because she wants to protect all of those people, but Ironwood refuses at all costs.RWBY's strategy since Ironwood had no interest in the very people he had taken dust and resources from while quarantining them and not only refusing to protect them, but refusing to allow them to protect themselves?RWBY decided to transport everyone to the train station that is vacuo, with the passengers.Sure, the train was destroyed, but what would you rather save? A Train? Or its passengers?Or in terms of RWBY? Would you rather save a city while abandoning the people? Or would you rather save the people, who represent the kingdom?A kingdom is composed of people, not structures. This was a theme in Thor: Ragnarock.And I must admit, while Hela was indeed a villain, she was in fact a sympathetic one.

BUMBLEBY: CRITICISM VS HATE

Let me state that, as a Bumbleby fan, I DO wish there was more build-up, and more dialogue.

THAT is a valid criticism echoed by many.

Calling Bumbleby an SJW Agenda? Saying it was "forced?" Or saying that "The writers were bullied by the shippers into making Bumbleby Canon?"

That's not criticism...or at the very least, its not valid criticism.

What is valid criticism? Insulting RWBY and CRWBY is not valid, it accomplishes nothing other than hatred.

And just hating on something? Is not criticism, its hate.

Wishing harm onto female fictional characters? Is not criticism.

If you want to make suggestions to the writers, that's fine. But let me ask this?

How many of these people have insulted the writers, called their insults "suggestions," and when the writers refused to listen to people who were insulting the writers, these people then claimed that "the writers couldn't handle criticism"

When I went to college, as part of our Electives, we were required to take part in discourse.

That required acknowledging the good and bad of a show, and respecting the good while politely and respectfully discussing the bad.

The reason people say RWBY is overhated is due to so many videos and blogs and posts that do nothing but promote negativity against the show, while refusing to speak well of the good in its writing, its characters, its worldbuilding, etc.

Here.

https://allagesofgeek.com/this-just-in/show-review/a-review-of-rwby-volume-8-spoilers/

A positive look...criticism was included, but the good in the show was also covered.

A balanced take.

For me, Valid criticism has to include positivity towards what you are criticizing. You need to be respectful when you give a critique.

But while respectful criticism of RWBY exists, it is drowned out by bad-faith criticism that is more focused on talking about how they dislike the show, or that people should not watch the show.

If you're telling somebody "This show sucks, don't watch it"....Is that criticism? Or Hatred?

If lots of people are doing their best to try to stop others from watching RWBY? I would call that hatred.

And so we have to come to the conclusion that RWBY is a victim of a lot of bad-faith criticism.

That makes it over-hated.

Do we have slurs or insults for the Blacksun shippers? No. But the Blacksun shippers have multiple insults for us. Hornet, Wasp, Crotch Snot (That was Eruption Fang, btw)

You can count the number of RWBY Critics who are Bumbleby fans? On 1-2 hands.

RWBY Critics who are blacksun shippers? Try counting the grains of sand at the beach.

EXPECTATIONS? OR HEADCANONS?

People saw Adam Taurus, a "cool dude" who tried to blow up a train of innocent passengers, and immediately people had headcanons about him, made fanart, and worshipped him as some morally ambiguous character.

His first scene was in Volume 2, where he told Cinder that while many of his men had died, he could convince them to still follow her.

In other words, ADAM NEVER CARED FOR THE FAUNUS. All he cared about was himself.

Then in V3, we see that the man who had no problem trying to kill innocent civilians, had no problem sacrificing his followers for somebody else's goals? Was in fact a very evil man.

People suffered the truth: Adam Taurus was not what they imagined. So they claimed character assassination, or bad writing. Because it was easier to claim that, rather than admit that RWBY simply did not do what they demanded the show do for them.

Just because we watch RWBY? Does not mean we are entitled to make demands of the writers.

And just because we’re not paying attention? DOES NOT mean something is bad writing.

CAKE ANALOGY

Let's say that a store advertised a cake with chocolate frosting, and some people interpreted the cake as being entirely chocolate.When they discovered the cake itself was vanilla, they insisted that it was a poorly-made cake...even though the cake was indeed advertised as a vanilla cake with chocolate frosting.That the product was not what you wanted it to be does not mean it was incorrectly advertised, or that it is a bad cake for not being the cake you want.

CRITICISM BY ITSELF IS NOT BAD, BUT WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CRITICISM AND HATRED?

The term Hatedom was coined due to there being people in the fandom who literally had nothing nice to say about the show, and were literally there just to hate.How many people have you spoken to who left the fandom due to the negativity?Was that really criticism? Or was it hate?A lot of people have said hate.

NOBODY is villainizing criticism. But if you're going to put effort into "criticizing" a show, at least put in a respectable amount of effort into respecting the show.

We are the only show I know of where there is a subreddit for critics. Arcane, Legend of Korra, Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, etc? None of them have such a subreddit.

There is this belief that everyone is allowed to criticize RWBY...but who criticizes the critics?

Who is allowed to criticize a critic for making a false analogy or an inaccurate statement?

The accusation that Ruby has a messiah complex? When she's repeatedly shown taking criticism and listening to others advice and just wanting to help people?Compared to Ironwood who constantly claims to have an answer for everything, removes anyone in his way including Ozpin, constantly talks about how he sees the big picture, and cries about how nobody understands the "sacrifices" he has to make?That's a messiah complex, yet how many videos do you see treating RWBY as war criminals, and Ironwood as a victim of some agenda, whether it be "anti-military" or "anti-male?"

Have you tried to speak up about it, only to be silenced?

Back in September on Twitter, a girl spoke about how she was watching RWBY with a friend. A well-known critic in the fandom QRT'd her tweet, and mocked her by accusing her of having rent issues.

Several people tried to speak up about it...they were all silenced for criticizing the individual harassing the girl.

Communication is a two-way street. If you're not allowed to criticize the criticism? Then its basically an echo chamber of hatred.

Do you really believe that the people defending RWBY live in an echo chamber of positivity? Who told you that? No, we who love RWBY criticize the show as well! We just don't hate it or the people loving and defending it.

I would literally give RWBY a 7.0-7.8 out of 10. Yeah, I can criticize the show.

But I'm not going to hate it and claim it is somehow the worst thing in existence.Because saying that, is not criticism but hatred.

Try scrolling through a YouTube comment section and you notice that somebody had briefly mentioned RWBY in a completely neutral manner... They had six replies and all six of those replies where people either talking bad about the show or mocking them for even mentioning the show at all.

There are so many examples of that every day, every week.

The fact thatact that six people still went out of their way to attack someone just mentioning something they didn't like.

Even if RWDE were objectively right they are not going to bridge any gap by simply dismissing the feelings of a fandom has as a mere boogie man they dreamed up.

That might as well be gaslighting.

The problem with RWBY Critics is always the same thing.

Even when they acknowledge somebody else's argument or reasoning it comes with a but. RWDE can't just agree with someone its always "I agree but here's why RWBY is still bad....."

The problem is that the "critics" believe that word entitles them to be as caustic about the show, the creators, and even the fandom (as these countless threads attest to...) as they want to be—

—but no one is allowed to criticize them in turn.

Anyone can go to the RWBYcritics subreddit and see what constitutes "criticism" to these folks. They can go to FNKI and see the kind of "memes" that RWBYcritics users post there.

THE HATEDOM EXISTS, IT IS NOT A BOOGEYMAN

Say you like a show. You may not love everything about it, but there's plenty of good things in it for you to appreciate. There are people who voice criticisms of the work, but in your mind, all of their ideas of what's bad about it and what would make it better are poor ideas.

Would you believe that people who criticize a work you enjoy are more important than the people like yourself who enjoy it?

Because that's fundamentally why a lot of people use the word HTDM to describe bad faith criticism regarding RWBY: there are people who are constantly complaining about the show and its fandom, yet at the same time have the attitude that the show needs to cater to their specific tastes and desires, instead of what the writers have decided. These people can just move on, and go for a different media. Yet such people remain to claim that they are not haters, that there is no hatedom, and the people defending RWBY are somehow toxic? It is not toxic to defend a show. And hating on a show and wishing for it to be canceled or rebooted according to your specific tastes and ideas is not criticism.

I'm under no delusions that RWBY has faults. However a lot of criticism hinges on literally ignoring things characters have said, done or observations made about them in the show before something happened. Aka , Adam Taurus and James Ironwood.

Critics can say that haters don't represent them, but they don't really care that much about that side of the problem as much as they care to point out the problems they see in the "enjoyers" side. Truth of the matter is, they are completely free to write about whatever they want, and no one forces them to address that if they don't want to, that said, let it be known that as long as that pattern continues the "outsiders' stigma" will continue indefinitely because in the eyes of most of the fandom they will be seen as nothing more than another person victimized or complaining because "x person didn't agree with x argument" even if it isn't the case.

When you accuse the fandom of “manufacturing its own Boogeyman”...you’re basically denying that the hate against the actually exists.

I'm also not talking about alternate interpretation. I'm talking about something like if Ruby says she really loves cats and then, after having a positive interaction and liking a cat, people saying "But Ruby likes Dogs because Zwei! She can't like a cat."

If the show tells you something about a character, you should listen

Alternately they don't like the character arc of someone, which is fine. But calling it bad writing because you don't like it is ridiculous. (This isn't specific to a character) Idiot ball is bad writing, ignoring multiple indications a character is a moron then calling it bad writing when they do something stupid is you having a lack of narrative comprehension.

All I ask is that people please look around, see how many posts there are complaining about or disliking the show. See how many memes are posted in the associate subreddit R/Fnki that are complaining about the show, the writers, and the female characters. There is so much hatred against RWBY and its fans, and I am stunned that there are people denying its existence. The RWBY fandom did not create its own boogeyman or boogeywoman. That would require that bad-faith criticism does not exist, but it does exist and it thrives.

I am going to do my best to not only promote positivity about RWBY, but also promote good-faith criticism, that will critique RWBY in a respectful manner. Because if we are not being respectful in our criticisms, if we refuse to say nice things about the show's writing that we are critiquing? Then what are we doing? Because its certainly not criticism.

What I have noticed that RWBY seems to function like a number of shows sort of like Steven Universe, where people who haven’t seen the show will go into it with negative thoughts due to the popularity of negative accessible content on RWBY.

Take a look at RWBY on Twitter, YouTube, etc. many videos on the show are very negative. Especially ones talking about the series overall. People who haven’t seen the show and want to see if it’s worth their time won’t exactly be getting positive vibes about the show from the people around them.

A RWBY Fan will you tell you to watch RWBY. A RWBY Critic will tell you to drop the show after the 3rd season, and just write fanfiction about Jaune, Adam, Roman...aka the men.

This isn’t to say its wrong that this is happening. It’s just a fact that this is the way it is, and it’s part of the reason why RWBY has such an intrinsically negative vibe to it in the eyes of so many people.

Once again it’s like the countless number of random strangers who dogpile shows like Steven Universe without even watching it. Of course this also doesn’t mean RWBY is some special snowflake in this instance. Plenty of shows suffer from this, however I do believe that this leads to a pretty huge upward climb for these types of media to take to be loved by audiences. Much more than some other media.

SpaceBattlesforum there was a user saying things about how the RWBY fandom was a hatedom. Or about not wanting to be considered part of the fandom due to all its critiques and bad faith towards the series. As, if, in most of the fandom the popular opinion was of hate towards the series.

It's true a lot of the fandom goes too far with hatedom but RWBY is also part of culture war and an easy target for incels/misogynists to sh*t on RWBY

A lot of incels hate RWBY just for having women and will deadname certain groups and characters in the of criticism. Cough Cough Unicorn of War.

Conclusion, RWBY IS OVERHATED

If you want to hate a show? Fine, but don't call your hatred criticism.

If you want to criticize a show, at least be prepared to have nice things to say when you make a critique, otherwise don't be surprised if people call your material "hatred."

A critic is NOT a victim of a fandom, nor are they persecuted for not liking the show. But they do harass and persecute others for liking the show. Cough Cough, FatmanFalling harassing people for enjoying RWBY, and every single RWBY Youtuber defending his behavior.

If you feel that a show could be better? That's fine, but don't claim that means the show is bad because it does not cater to your tastes or desires.

If somebody does not share your dislike of a show, that's fine, but allow them to like the show, and don't accuse them of toxic positivity, simply because they're defending something you dislike.

If somebody wants to watch a show you don't like? Please allow them to see the show for themselves, don't try to stop them from watching a show just because you're not happy with said show.

And if you don't like RWBY for its writing or plot? Move On! There are so many shows out there, PLEASE let us enjoy this one!

I think the critics of RWBY are full of it. While RWBY isn’t perfect and the show does deserves criticism, there is a obsessive and parasitic part of the fanbase that does everything it can to tear down ever little detail they can find while ignoring any good parts, there are legitimate criticisms and and analysis but acting like it’s not over-hated is ignoring a very real abusive part of the fandom. And I’ve never met a RWBY Critic who didn’t try to defend that abusive part of the fanbase by whining that saying “RWBY SUCKS!” is criticism and we should just be grateful that they’re shoving it down our throats.

I'm not kidding about the 7.5 out of 10. RWBY is a mid-show, but its an enjoyable show to me and many others. So yes, I'll say nice things about it.

FYI, this post was well-received on r/RWBY, till r/RWBYCritics had it removed from r/RWBY through pressure.

r/RWBYCritics does not allow discourse. They silence you, and then claim to be victims of the fandom.

I don't think anyone seriously expects a RWBY Critic to take responsibility for them but rather acknowledge that they do exist.

You can't expect the fandom to get better if you're just going to dismiss their concerns by calling it a boogie man that they made up.

And if you spread lies about the people defending the show, making up false statements, and half-truths? Then RWDE community has established itself as a culture that tries to silence positivity and healthy discussion, rather than respect it.

#rwby #rwby fandom #rwby htdm #rwby hatedom #rwby meta #rwby meta analysis #rwby community #RWBY FNDM #rwby is a good show #rwby discussion #r/rwby #r/rwbycritics

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