I need to talk about RWBY's Jaune Arc

okay this is 1.6k words, immaaaaaaaa put a cut

Okay so going into RWBY back in 2019, that was great right. I was in the middle of getting my degree in creative writing I was seriously burnt out from how formulaic stories had gotten for me, and then comes along my friend being all YOU SHOULD WATCH RWBY. And I said, SURE

now my friend knows my types and she nailed who my favorite character was going to be (Oscar) and she also nailed who my other favorites would be (Ren and Qrow) and I'll admit, 90% of my investment in RWBY was ya know, my favorite boys (Don't worry I love plenty of the girls, it just happened that my top 3 ended up being guys this time around). And wow RWBY was just such a breath of fresh air for me given all the story telling stuff I was learning about in college

and specifically, now that we're like waiting for volume 10 to be greenlit, I'm surprised by how much I've grown to like Jaune

I used to not care for Jaune/find him mildly annoying in Volume 1. He was the... audience stand in, so he had to be a little dumb. He was falling into a little bit of a stereotypical pretending to be confident to impress the ladies role. But ya know, I didn't hate him. He just wasn't my favorite of team JNPR

then volume 2 comes around and he has his whole IMMA INVITE WEISS TO THE DANCE WITH ME :D and I was not about that, it was pushy, and also, I really do not care for that sort of romance in the stories I'm engaging with, and then... it didn't go that route. He realized that Pyrrha wanted to go with him, that he had been unintentionally insensitive towards her, and pursued a girl who didn't even care about him who liked someone else. And Jaune just went "alright, damage control, gonna get Weiss what she wants and gonna give Pyrrha what she deserves" and that was the first time instead of being neutral or annoyed at Jaune I thought ya know, this guy... this guy has good bean potential. I'm interested in seeing where they take him next

And then there's Volume 3. He's been training with Pyrrha, he's been more supportive as a partner, he's been TRYING to be a good leader for his team, like he's not perfect at any of those but he's TRYING and he's lost a lot of the traits that I found annoying originally. Now he's starting to full step into the supportive wholesome leader role. And then, ya know the finale happens and just... ouch. Things were looking up for White boy, and the rug wasn't just pulled out from under him, it also slapped him in the face and threw him down the stairs

Now through Volumes 4-5 Jaune was still in the "I'm pretty meh" about him territory. There were moments where I found myself deeply empathizing with him, specifically in the scenes that showed him mourning Pyrrha, especially because well... I've been there. I've lost someone I was close with when I was 17 too. Extremely different circumstances but that thing where you put on a video of them and you watch it over and over and over because you so desperately want them back, that you're reaching for wisps and smoke of what used to be them all for a brief small chance to feel their presence again. And it's just, it's never enough. No matter how many times you watch the video, no matter how many times you replay their voice talking to you, no matter how many times you listen to old messages they sent you, they are gone and nothing in the world is going to change that. It hurts. It hurts so bad

this boy is GRIEVING

but, he was being bitchy. And look, I don't blame the guy alright. Grief messes you up as a person, it brings out sides of you you didn't know you had, it prevents you from being the best version of yourself. I. GET. IT. But he was being bitchy towards Qrow(aforementioned fave, special mention to that time he slammed Oscar ANOTHER FAVE against the wall), and at the battle of Haven, he initially let his grief and anger get the better of him, and ngl I couldn't watch. (To clarify, absolutely no shade to the writers, this was GOLDEN, peek character writing and whatnot) But that is what Jaune's arc is about at the end of the day. I'm not saying the other characters aren't grieving too, they absolutely are. But Jaune's arc has a lot more focus on how grief hurts and changes a person, how it gets the better of us, and how ultimately, if we want to move forward, if we want to keep going, we cannot just fight it and resist it because it feels icky. We cannot just sit in it because we hate what happened and happiness feels fake and forever gone. We cannot pretend the grief isn't there either.

Cue Volume 6 where he was mostly backstage, but all of this comes to a culmination at Pyrrha's statue and Jaune finally gets a moment where he gets to sit with his grief. Really sit with it. In a way that isn't anger, or repression, or wishing things had been different or that Pyrrha was there. He got to sit with his grief with the reality that it was. He lost Pyrrha. And it hurt. Maybe it was senseless. Maybe he really couldn't have done anything. Maybe it really does hurt so bad. But at the end of the day, it had been Pyrrha's choice to try and do something. And for better or for worse, she tried. And the rest of his team confront him. Ren and Nora are quick to console him, and join in on the grieving. And they also confront him about his behavior in season 5, where he believed that he didn't matter so long as his friends got to live. And here are Ren and Nora telling him, buddy, you DO matter. You matter so much. You matter to us just as much as Pyrrha mattered to us. We all chose to be huntsmen, so let us grow together and honor her choice even if it hurts. We can hurt together and we can take comfort together.

And listen, up until this point, when I was watching RWBY, Jaune was not my favorite. He never had been. He was just a guy that was there going through his own arcs. But after this key moment in volume 6, suddenly I find himself enjoying seeing him whenever he was on screen

for the rest of volume 6 he slips naturally into an empathetic leader. Stealing the ships was his idea but he let everyone take the roles they were good at, he played good support, he protected his team when possible. AND THEN WE GET TO 7 AND 8 and omg

friends

this is when I started loving Jaune. Suddenly, it's like he found a balance, he found himself. He was still hurting but instead of being angry he was being compassionate. He was still goofy and fun, but he was no longer annoying being respectful of people. He was no longer blundering about on the battlefield but he was moving with purpose and with skill. This Jaune feels like an entirely different character than the Jaune we first met back in volume 1. He's fallen into a character role that I personally love. I love the empathic leaders who are a little bit goofy. I love them to pieces. I love their level-headedness, i love their compassion. I love their gentleness. But what made Jaune special is that we got to see how much he had to suffer to get there. He was doing the best he's ever been, and he was being so kind and so humble (straight up, tempted to do a time travel AU fic or something with baby jaune and leader jaune meeting each other cuz they'd be so different)

Then we reach the end of 8 and ya know

THAT happened

and of course Jaune's arc is always about grief. But what a stroke of genius, have him find his footing and then REtraumatize him. ngl, I ALSO have been there, and imo the retraumatization is almost worst than the originally one, especially if you haven't properly dealt with the OG emotions because now THOSE come rushing back AND you've got new fresh ones to deal with. Call me a sadist. Accuse me of projecting my own trauma or whatever, but genuinely I loved what they did with Jaune in volume 9. It was *chef's kiss*. The unhealthy coping, the latching onto and hyperfixating on a single thing that ultimately is the opposite of what he needed, forced to be alone for decades, betrayed by someone he tried to help, being reunited with his friends without having processed or dealt with any of that and STILL trying to be friendly and kind and gentle to them while barely keeping it together- it's just SO GOOD

and ultimately he does break. But his friends are there with him, just like Ren and Nora helped him in volume 6. He's still the gentle leader he's grown into, but now there's just so much more to it, there's so many layers

I'm genuinely so excited to see where they take him for future volumes. He still can't dethrone my favorites BUT he has climbed the ranks of my favorite characters so fast that I wouldn't have believed you if you told me when I started watching RWBY that the character I found most annoying would end up being one of my favorite RWBY characters

soooooo yeah

I really love Jaune now

controversial opinion, I love his short hair

We've known each other a long time. We've been on this planet for a long time. I mean, you and me. I could always rely on you. You could always rely on me. We're a team, a group. Group of the two of us. And we've spent our existence pretending that we aren't. I mean, the last few years, not really. And I would like to spend... I mean, if Gabriel and Beelzebub can do it, go off together, then we can. Just the two of us. We don't need Heaven, we don't need Hell, they're toxic. We need to get away from them, just be an us. [...] You idiot. We could have been... us.

!! SPOILERS FOR LANTERN RITE ACT III BELOW !!

This is everything I could have ever asked for and more. T _ T

Thank you Hoyo for giving me this delicious 3-course meal on my very first Lantern Rite.

I will probably continue to scream about these two for the rest of the day so y'all have been warned.

i don’t really ship owain with anyone in either game he’s in but he’s such a good dad to ophelia that i can’t imagine him not having her, and i had the idea yesterday that it’s severa he approaches about wanting a kid bc after their time in fateslandia with inigo the three of them are bonded for life anyway and she’s the only one he trusts with something like that

when will aup sidestories return from war and stop leaving me bitter about how the main story ended

red hood: the lost days #6

[ID: Jason Todd pinning the Joker down in a puddle of gasoline by sitting on his chest. Jason is without his helmet with it laying in the gasoline near them. He has red eyeshadow around his eyes in the shape of his Robin mask and is snarling through gritted teeth down at the Joker, who's smiling up at him. Jason's muscular arms are exposed by wearing a black tanktop and blue jeans while the Joker is in his pinkish purple suit. Jason is holding a lit torch and behind them is a barricade of flammable barrels and the bright, full moon. In front of the moon is Batman with his cape flared out to resemble wings, his only visible feature being his glowing eyes. END ID]

in the novel why claude so refuses to let Athy leave the palace alone? I remember that Claude did not allow athy to leave the Palace and every time she asked him to go to a tea party he always refused very strongly, even after athy returned to it he still had a hard time allowing athy to leave the palace alone.

I don't think there's another reason other than Claude being very, very overprotective of Athy.

To be fair, Athy had... more than a couple of near-death experiences (some of them because of Claude's own fault lol), so I can understand him to a certain extent. Plus she's a princess, the only princess and heir to the throne, so her going outside of the palace is a pretty risky thing, overprotectiveness aside. And Athy made it a point that she didn't want to go with guards, so despite her being a magic user and being more than capable of taking care of herself (as proven by her surviving for... months? outside of the palace during the amnesia arc), it still would be dangerous.

But a thing that I really liked about Claude and Athy's relationship development in the novel was that, when Athy returns and Claude still didn't have his memories back, she is like "okay, this kind of dynamic can't go on, I'm going to be more independent and you are going to have to trust me and be okay with it". And so she has her own birthday party (Claude being uninvited lmao) and goes outside of the palace. Of course, Claude is uneasy about it, but he lets her do it anyways, since he'll give Athy whatever she wants. Athy says that she wants to change their broken relationship and build trust between them, have an actually healthy father-daughter bond (this is a very mature thing of her to do just after going through incredibly traumatic events).

It's not the same as the manhwa scenes when Claude apologizes to Athy and cries, or when he opens up to her before the coronation, but I think that narratively they serve the same purpose of moving forward their relationship, and them finally being honest with each other. For me, they are the natural conclusion to Claude and Athy's arc in both versions, because WMMAP's main point is that family relationships take effort and time, they require mutual understanding and honesty. Real love is not just a thing automatically granted by blood ties or magic, that is a naïve notion that the narrative goes very against of and actively calls out.

In the novel scene, Athy then says that she'll always tell Claude beforehand when she plans of going outside, and that she'll always come back. As long as Claude waits for her, she won't disappear forever, because that is her home. "Where you are is where I should return to", because he would always be her dad, and she would always be his daughter.

From my point of view, Claude's overprotectiveness of Athy comes from his lonely life and fear of abandonment. Diana promised to be with him forever, and yet she died and left him alone. Athy almost died more than once too. He fixiates on her good bye to him at the debutante because of that, and he is afraid of Athy growing up and building her own family in the manhwa for that very same reason. Claude is terrified of Athy leaving him behind, in one way or another. It's understandable, considering his backstory and characterization, and that's also why I find it so beautiful that Athy takes it into her hands to reassure him that such thing won't happen. In both novel and manhwa, she takes the initiative of building real trust between them, while also demanding that Claude apologizes for hurting her and that he changes his unhealthy behavior, and reaffirming her own independence (not asking for it!).

I know this is probably not where you wanted the conversation to go, but I couldn't help myself. Their development is one of my favorite things about WMMAP.

I’m 40 episodes off of finishing the XY anime and I wish they focused on Serena and her journey WAY more than they did because it’s by far the most interesting part about the series to me

There’s so many contrast and differences you can really make with Tiso and Quirrel even with just the few tidbits of canon already and honestly? That’s one of the fun things I like to think about alot. Tiso is such a much more goal-driven and emotionally-driven character compared to Quirrel. That quick to action headedness he has and how he charges into situations is quite admirable. Literally the embodiment of “act first before thinking” energy and I love that about him. Coupled that with his determination and unending drive (sometimes even to a fault) just enhances his character even further. Like, yeah he can definitely be pretty boastful of himself and sometimes even to the point of overestimating himself but that brashness means he actually gets things done. And giving that kind of driven and determined character a sense of morals just adds another layer to his character. The reckless but admirable hero in a sense. They might be rather unorthodox but they get the job done and sometimes even BETTER. At the cost of their safety and health at times but god do I love reckless characters sometimes, especially ones that actually have good reasonings for their idiotic recklessness. Now, compare that quick-to-action attitude to Quirrel’s. He’s far more calm and collected compared to Tiso. Almost to a fault if it wasn’t for his common sense and casual need to help others---IF they need it.

He may be polite. He may be kind. He may be a pacifist. But he doesn’t interfere when he knows very well that the person is capable. (While Vigilante Tiso also share this trait, this is because he actually knows full well and seen it first hand that Ghost can handle himself, and is much more personal and trust based rather than Quirrrel’s logic based reasoning) He accesses the situation first. Think if this bug needs help. If they do, Then that’s when he looks for a good opportunity and opening to attack before acting. Compared to Tiso who would instantly rush in without thinking if this bug actually needs his help or not. Quirrel is driven by the need to help by simple moral obligation. Whilst Tiso on the other hand, always has to help because that’s simply what he thinks he has to do and because that’s something one should always do!! It’s not a moral obligation as much as it is simple decency for him. Now, this isn’t to say Quirrel is a cold-hearted person, it’s far from that. It’s just that, when you help someone you need to ensure that your efforts to help them will actually help them and not endanger or worsen the situation even more for them. Especially if it’s someone you’re not affiliated with nor have a personal obligation to help. Because you don’t know this person, so you don’t exactly know what they want. It’s logical. It’s reasonable. He would help this person, because he needs to. But back off when he needs to as well. Pretty much, if Tiso is hot and reacts quickly, Quirrel is lukewarm and it’ll take some time for him to react quickly. Their temperature is what contributes to them on how fast they’ll react in a situation accordingly. Quirrel isn’t hot, warm, or cold. Just lukewarm.

I can just imagine how the two would react in a situation where a fellow bug would help. Tiso, despite not having accessed the situation and gauged if he’s current skill level is actually capable of warding off attackers. would instantly rush in to save them and protect them if need be. While Quirrel, on the other hand despite his nimbleness, would falter a little for a second before quickly accessing the situation then acting accordingly. I can also definitely see that in the case of a more morally right Tiso, that he might lightly chide Quirrel for even hesitating and second guessing in the first place when someone needed them Right. There. Their different ideologies, reasonings, and ways of thinking can be such a fun thing to think about and how much they would get along and also sometimes misunderstand each other. Both of them are reactive, but Tiso is more active while Quirrel is more passive.

......⁉️ (this is about shu and mika) theyre both derranged but wdym neither brings anything good to the other i-

yeah, i could talk about how "don't bring any good to the other" is bs considering [gestures at both their developments very much relying on one another] but instead.

why are they quoting Hermitage. I've read Hermitage. I literally point to it as the prime example of their development's peak and their becoming equal partners/coworkers. What in the world could they have cited from Hermitage that would have said the opposite.

diff anon here- im glad to see i've found someone who thinks similarly! the only difference is that i find myself a little more open to people writing redemption arcs or alternate timelines in which he joins the party some way or another. not complete ooc rewrites, thats just people being in denial, just some canon divergence. but ive been keeping that to myself because im too scared someone will call me out and tell me to pick a side or something like that, so seeing your answer gave me some hope in making friends in this fandom just yet!

yes!! i would be so down for billy to have a redemption arc or for him to grow as a character but it never happened and most ppl act like it did in the final scene w el just bc she showed him a memory of his childhood

i read a fic a while ago (can’t remember what it was called) in which steve said that he wanted to try to explain to billy what was going on and why max was at the byers house w steve but billy went inside before he could say anything and i think that could have been a good arc moment; billy might not have listened just bc of who he is a character but if he’d seen something (like a demo dog or the nail bat or something else that’s just Weird enough for him to actually ask questions instead of throwing hands) i think it would have been nice for him to grow as a person and become a big brother for max (and obv he’d have to grow as a person in regards to his racism and apologise to lucas)

i also think max rly rly deserves a big brother which is why i love her and steve’s relationship so much but it would have been nice for billy to just,,, not be such a douche

It was honestly a crime to put Luz just wanting to be understood her whole life and bonding with Camila about the trauma RIGHT BEFORE Willow basically believing everything her childhood bully told her and just wanting to see her dads again while also accidentally burying her best friends :(((

reminder that shinon is one of the best non-main characters to come out of this franchise and that most side characters don’t get a full story of character development within even one game, let alone character growth throughout two games in a linear progression. 😌 

perhaps the reason why aup ended like *that* is because it was not supposed to have a happy ending in the first place, but sayren didnt have the guts to deal with readers' backlash for when they finally kill off the main character so a half baked happy ending is what we get 😔

If you have a chronically insecure muse, I cannot recommend more giving The Courage To Be Disliked a read. It might not work for everyone, but I can say it is already making a difference in Muu after just a few pages into it.

Katniss is like Lucy Gray this, Katniss is like Sejanus that, and yes fine that's all good and true and lovely but Katniss Everdeen is also a direct parallel to Coriolanus Snow and people NEED to start talking about this because it's driving me crazy.

Think about it: they both grew up poor and deeply vulnerable, losing parents at a very young age, with a matriarchal adult (Katniss' mother and Coriolanus' Grandma'am) who fails to provide for them emotionally and physically. They intimately understand the threat of starvation, even developing with stunted growth because of it, and their narrations in the books share a fixation on food. Throughout their childhoods, both experienced constant fear and suffered a fundamental lack of control over their circumstances. Because of this, they're inherently suspicious of the people around them. They resent feeling indebted to others, especially those who have saved their lives. They're motivated almost entirely by family and deeply connected to their communities. Both are used and manipulated by the Capitol, both are forced to perform to survive and despise every inch of it, both are thrown into the Arena and made to kill. Both have a self-sacrificial, genuinely sweet sister figure acting as their conscience. Peeta and Lucy Gray - performers and love interests with a fundamental kindness and sense of hope about them - fulfill markedly similar roles in their narrative. Both contribute to the development of the future Hunger Games, Snow throughout tbosas and Katniss towards the end of Mockingjay.

It's easy to ignore these similarities because, as mirrors of each other, they are exact opposites. Katniss is from District 12, viewed and treated as less than human; Snow is the cream of the Capitol crop, given the privilege of a name with social weight, an ancestral home, and the opportunity of the Academy despite having no more money than a miner from 12. Katniss has no agency over her life, and responds by being kind whenever she's able, while Snow justifies horrendous evils in order to continue his quest for complete control. Katniss does everything she can to protect her family; Snow does everything he can to protect his family's image as an extension of his own ego. Katniss loves her District and connects with its inhabitants on a meaningful level, but Snow is indifferent at best to his peers - the apparent "superior people" - and only engages with his community for personal gain. Katniss emerges from the Arena horrified at herself and the system, but Snow takes his trauma and turns it into an excuse to perpetuate the violence with himself at the top. Katniss cares for Prim until her death and then snaps at the loss of her little sister, while Snow survives on Tigris' blood, sweat, and tears and then torments and abandons her, presumably because she calls him out on his insanity. Snow actively adds to and popularizes the Hunger Games because of his vendetta against the Districts following his childhood wartime trauma - Katniss briefly agrees to a new Hunger Games in the pursuit of vengeance, but later stops them from happening by killing Coin and choosing a life of peace and privacy. Snow is obsessed with revenge, but Katniss empathizes with the Capitolites and does what she can to keep them from suffering. He exists in a cruel system and selfishly upholds it; she exists in a cruel system and works to dismantle it for the good of her family and community, at great personal cost. And Peeta and Lucy Gray are incredibly similar, but Katniss and Peeta forge a relationship of genuine love and understanding that shines in comparison to Coriolanus' obsessive projection onto Lucy Gray.

So, yeah, Katniss is Lucy Gray haunting Coriolanus. But I bet you anything that eighty-something year old President Snow looks at her, the girl on fire, bright and young and brilliant, emerging from a childhood of starvation with a relentless hunger for success, a talented and charming performer helping her win the Games, and he sees the ghost of his own past. And that's why he's so afraid of her! Because if he sees himself in her, then he's up against his own cunning, his own talent for manipulation, his own charisma, his own genius. He's up against the version of himself that he once wished to be, with the nightmare army of his childhood at her back and her star-crossed lover at her side, spewing Sejanus' truths in his own voice. This isn't to say that Katniss ever achieved the level of power and agency that Coriolanus did during her time with the rebellion, but it is to say that Snow was taken down by what truly terrified him - his own morality, come to finish the job.