Why Athy's coronation is a bigger deal than it seems

Or me overthinking WMMAP's worldbuilding

The narrative of Athy's coronation is so interesting to me. Perhaps it wasn't completely intended by Spoon, but its implications for the world of WMMAP are more than impressive.

What got me thinking about this is that, in real life, the heir to the throne is not "crowned" as crown prince, they are the person expected to succeed since birth. That would be Athy as Claude's only child, so why would she need a coronation? Apart from securing the position that people have been trying to steal from her since she was born. Well, if we look at how royal succession works in real life, until the 20th century crown princesses weren't considered heirs. Being the rulers of their nation by their own right was just not allowed.

They were more often than not the spouse of a crown prince, but even crown princesses by birth wouldn't inherit the throne in a male dominated succession. Which seems to be exactly Obelia's case, despite how its first ruler was a queen, Queen Ambrose, as stated in the novel by Athy. Some interesting events must have happened between Obelia's foundation and the present day for that to change.

We see some subtle signs of this in the manhwa. All the royal portraits only depict male rulers, and Athy mentions how immortal names were only granted by the emperor to his heir, the empress' son, that's why Claude received such a name (meaning "limping"). We aren't told that giving immortal names to the emperor's daughter was outright forbidden, but it's certainly unusual, as -apart from Ambrose- Athy is the only member of Obelia's royal family that we know has a name evocative of immortality. The named emperors, Anastasius, Aevum, Aeternitas, Caelum, were all males.

This makes Diana naming her daughter "Athanasia" incredibly daring. She wasn't the emperor, who has the right to choose an heir, she wasn't even Claude's wife, and yet Diana was the one who gave Athy her name.

So, following Obelia's succession and history, it looks like Athy was never expected to actually rule the empire or exert authority. Sure, she would be the empress, but she wouldn't be looked as an equal to her male predecessors. In the novel, both local and foreign nobles were very invested in who Athy was going to marry, saying that she needed to have a strong and capable husband, like Arlanta's prince Dice, since as a princess she was delicate and weak. Others (Roger) argued that she must marry an obelian nobleman, to maintain the power within the country. This was followed by a hilarious scene of Athy breaking the cutlery and shutting their mouths.

This kind of worldbuilding also explains why Roger was so focused on Ijekiel marrying Jennette, he wanted him or their future son to be emperor. As we see in the novel's LP side story, they never wanted Jennette to seize the throne, and she never got a coronation or the title of heir. The same could be said for the manhwa, Anastasius and Aeternitas wanted to use her as a puppet, not make her an empress, and in that way legitimize their accession to the throne.

Athy actually being considered the heir to the throne by her own merits and later crowned as such is pretty extraordinary for a world like Obelia's. Other series have coronation ceremonies for princes and princesses, so maybe Spoon thought it was a real thing, but both analyzed from a real life point of view and from within the narrative, it's an amazing achievement. Claude is obviously not someone that cares for Obelia's traditions, the nobles rescenting him for his origins, so it's even possible that the ceremony was the first of its kind.

Since Athy is Claude's only child, the reader would expect her to be the next ruler by default, but Obelia doesn't seem like a particularly equal society when it comes to both class and gender. This is even more apparent with the misogynistic treatment she received in the novel, or how a noble tried to belittle her in the manhwa. Even more polite nobles mentioned they thought of Athy as little more than "a cute little princess" before she became the emperor's proxy. So it was natural that, with Anastasius suddenly coming back to life, a good portion of the traditional noble faction would back him, despite being an overthrown tyrant.

In summary, Athy being crowned as heir is an extraordinary accomplishment in itself, breaking Obelia's tradition of perhaps centuries. I would dare to say, maybe an unprecedented event since Queen Ambrose's rule. And as the final chapter states, she would become an empress adored by the people and who would live on in history.

I’m 99% sure that Claude’s and pre-brainwashed Anastacius’ sibling relationship was co-dependent, but I can’t point my finger on it why. There aren’t enought panels for me to judge and write a full-fledged essay about it, and that makes me kinda sad.

Leaving aside the roses. What other flower do you think suits Athy?

Other than roses, and also putting aside Athanasias because that answer would be too obvious...

I'm really fond of this visual metaphor that connects Athy to chrysanthemums. The scene is evocative of death, which points to the japanese meaning of the flower, precisely as a link to death. White chrysanthemums also symbolize death and are associated with funerals and grief in western Europe. Since Athy's character is so inseparably intertwined with death and reincarnation, I think this fits her really well. But also, pink chrysanthemums represent the imperial family in Japan, which is a fun coincidence, and white ones also relate to innocence, purity, honesty, and loyalty.

For similar reasons, I think white calla lilies suit her quite well, as they symbolize rebirth and resurrection, as well as purity and magnificent beauty. They are often used in both weddings and funerals, which is a dichotomy I like a lot.

Lastly, I really like camellias as Athy's flowers. In China they represent unyielding love, and what's Athy's character if not just that? But what I really love about them is that they bloom in winter, and because of that they are seen as symbols of bravery and strength against all odds. Sounds pretty familiar. As a fun fact, unlike most flowers that lose their petals one by one when they wither, camellias' petals fall quickly and all at once, so they are linked to a quick death... Athy's birthday is in winter, and both of her deaths occurred in that season.

I don't think Jennette is Athy's foil. Their interests are somewhat opposed to each other, but Jennette is not dramatically different from Athy, nor does her character serve to highlight Athy's character.

A foil is a character that, from a narrative point of view, contrasts with another character (usually the protagonist), to highlight their qualities. The foil usually exhibits opposite or conflicting traits, and they serve to better reflect the other character's traits and motivations.

Claude, Lucas and in the manhwa Anastasius have ideas and values that are very different from Athy's, especially regarding family. However, Anastasius is clearly Claude's foil, and Claude is more of a deuteragonist than anything. I could kind of see him contrasting with Athy (because of reasons similar to Lucas', those being, how they chose to deal with their grief), but I think his role is to be Anastasius' opposite.

Lucas fits a little more. He has an extremely similar backstory to Athy's (rejected and neglected by his biological family, kept away from the main house, then abandoned by his teacher, he chooses to "go to sleep" instead of facing his depression). Because of his traumatic experiences, Lucas chooses to freeze his heart instead of risking getting hurt again, which is the opposite of what Athy ultimately decides to do: Accept that she loves Claude and considers him her father, get hurt over and over, but nevertheless try to build a healthy relationship with him based on honesty and trust. This is what changes Lucas, (metaphorically and kind of literally) melts his heart, and makes him fall in love with Athy. However, Lucas is never truly put in a position where he is opposed to Athy. On the contrary, he is the character that stays by her side unconditionally, helps her reach her goals and protects her. That's why his role is the love interest.

I have thought about this topic before, and I always concluded that Athy simply does not have a foil. However, while answering this ask, I realized that there's a much better candidate for that position: LP!Jennette is wmmap!Athy's foil.

They both wanted to be loved by their family, but while Athy wins Claude's heart (at first by acting but shhh) by the sincere feelings of love and the relationship they slowly develop over time, Jennette never truly wins Claude over, unbeknown to her. The thing that makes Claude "love" her is the manipulation of her black magic. Moreover, while both LP!Jennette and wmmap!Athy know that their own good situations hurt the other (LP!Athy, wmmap!Jennette), wmmap!Athy goes very far in trying to befriend Jennette and help her, which can't be said for LP!Jennette (to be clear, she was never actively cruel to LP!Athy, but she also never tried to help her). What reflects their contrast the best is that, both know or learn the truth of their parentage, but Athy ends up telling Jennette the truth. LP!Jennette stays quiet and acts as if she is ignorant (which, as she herself admits, further hurts LP!Athy), because she feels Claude owes her the family and good standing she has, as he killed her real father.

I think the fact that wmmap!Jennette explicitly tells Athy that, if she were in Athy's place, she wouldn't have done what Athy did (comfort her, reach out, and talk to her first), is the novel's acknowledgement of how differently LP!Jennette and wmmap!Athy acted. While both had innocent and understandable desires, and you could say both were selfish in their own ways, LP!Jennette always prioritized her interests over anyone's (this is another conversation, but she also knew Ijekiel didn't love her and was unhappy, but she still kept him as her fiancé because that was her desire), which is the opposite of that wmmap!Athy did. More extremely put: wmmap!Athy saves Jennette from being executed or punished in any way because of the black magic storm she caused at her 18th birthday party. LP!Jennette does not do that for LP!Athy when she is framed. LP!Athy is executed, the day of her 18th birthday.

Without kidding, the cover where Athy appears in the white dress and with a swan is one of the most beautiful covers of all the manhwas out there. Not only because Athanasia looks too beautiful but also because the swan is supposed to be Diana and that makes it so beautifully sad.

Right? I know I'm biased (duh, this is a WMMAP blog), but I really think Spoon draws the absolute best covers out of all manhwas. The covers for volumes 1-3 are very beautiful, but they don't reflect any deeper themes. But from volume 4 onwards, all of the covers are full of symbolism, creative composition, etc.

I agree with you 100%. Volume 7 is my favorite by far, it's just so breathtaking. Athy looks straight out of a fairy tale. The branches of the World Tree in the background representing how Diana and Athy were able to meet in the manhwa. Swan!Diana, as a reference to how she was reborn "incompletely" because of the piece of her soul that stayed behind. The way in which her wings embrace and shelter Athy... Something interesting is that daffodils, the yellow flowers in the cover, signify rebirth and new beginnings in some cultures.

I also love the chibi Lucas in the back of the book holding the branch of the World Tree, it matches so well with the book's mood.

This is also a good opportunity for me to ramble about the chibi Athy used in this volume (if I haven't done so before).

Diana (along with Claude) has been associated with swans before, and in the panels shown above Athy is represented as their egg, the "fruit of their love", so to speak. I believe Spoon used this symbolism because swans supposedly only take one mate in their whole lives, they bond for life, and it's common for one of them to die of a "broken heart" after their partner dies. In fact, swans are particularly known for their ability to grieve for a dead mate or offspring. This is obviously a metaphor for claudiana's tragic romance.

The chibi Athy used in volume 7 holds an egg. This is probably a reference to Athy being Claude and Diana's precious child. But I also believe it represents reincarnation in general, of both Diana and Athy, as eggs are a common visual metaphor for "being born" or "being born again".

Volume 7 is just perfect in everything, aesthetics, symbolisms, making me cry...

Athy's name across languages

Athy's name is a pretty important plot point in itself, carrying the weight of belonging to Obelia's next ruler and foreshadowing the truth about her reincarnation, so I was surprised to learn that it actually varies through translations!

She stays as Athanasia (Athy) in english, japanese (though they spell it as "Atti"), german, and all official translations as far as I know, except for the chinese ones.

Simplified chinese vs Traditional chinese. The simplified version reads: « Sia (The language here has the meaning of immortality). I, a disgraced princess, am called something so extravagant. » It doesn't have the same ring as "Athanasia", does it?

There's two chinese translations of WMMAP, and both change Athy's name.

Kuaikan Manhua's version (simplified chinese) calls her 希婭 (Sia) (given name) and 阿婭 (Aya) (nickname). Webtoon Taiwan's version (traditional chinese) on the other hand stays with 阿塔娜西亞 (Athanasia) for her given name, but uses 娜西 (Na Xi) as her nickname.

Simplified chinese translations shorten all names from korean webtoons, probably for the convenience of remembering them in an easier/more natural sounding way. For example 奧貝利亞 (or 奧維利亞) ("Obelia") becomes 奧亞 (Oya). Sadly, the meaning of "immortality" is lost here, as it makes no sense to read "Sia" and fully understand the name's importance (hence the note between parentheses).

...Kind of. What's interesting about this translation choice is that "Sia" actually does come from the same root as "Athanasia", making the translation somewhat accurate.

Αθανασία transliterated as "Athanasia" (which in turn derives from the male form Αθανάσιος, Athanasius or Athanasios) has a shortened version: Σία or Sia. And Νάνσυ or Nancy. So Kuaikan is using the linguistically correct nickname... as Athy's given name. Now, for any reader not well-versed in greek, the reference is still lost, and I'm pretty sure this was just a happy accident. Still, it's a cool coincidence!

please let's go back to the day who made me a princess chapter 100 came out when Diana showed up and everyone was freaking out

I remember that Diana was even a trending topic on Twitter 🤧

The golden days 💕

That was honestly one of my favorite moments in WMMAP's serialization!

I really love how Spoon handled Diana's character. The concept of a character haunting the narrative (at first figuratively, but in the end quite literally) is so compelling to me.

I don't even need to explain how important Diana was for Claude. All of his actions and, subsequently, the plot of the manhwa come from Claude's inability to cope with her death. He regularly has dreams and visions of her (that were later revealed to be Diana's ghost, but I also want some of them to be Claude's sad fantasies because that's kind of funny) and can't help but see Diana in Athy. The man is literally haunted by the memories of his lost love. Good stuff.

But she was also incredibly important to Lily, who dedicated her life to Diana's child and risked being murdered by Claude in more than one occasion. And died for her once. Of course, Lily loves Athy immensely, almost like her own daughter and not just because of Diana. Felix too remembers her very fondly.

And then there's Athy, who despite repeating again and again (almost as if she wanted to convince herself) that she can't possibly miss a mother she never knew, how could she do so when that's such a foreign concept to her, how could she mourn for someone she never had, actually does miss Diana. A whole lot.

Can we talk about this parallel? Please?

This is all common to the novel and the manhwa, but where Spoon's own take diverts from Plutus' is that she made Diana more of a character than a narrative device. Diana actually meets Athy, we get to see glimpses of her characterization through Claude's memories, she has actually been there with them all along. Literally. In soul-ghost form.

Lily called it all the way back in chapter 14

Don't get me wrong, I really like how in the novel Claude and Athy (more Claude than Athy, really) learn to move on from Diana's death. Athy mentions that she wouldn't mind if Claude decided to have a new relationship (not that he ever would, though) because he deserved it. Or how she apologized to Diana in her thoughts for being glad that Claude was moving on, even if that was selfish, because Claude wasn't just Diana's lover, he was also her dad, and she wanted him there for her, not endlessly chasing after a ghost. There's also this line about the visions Claude gave Athy becoming blurrier, after almost 20 years his memories of Diana were starting to fade away, even if she still appeared beautiful in Athy's dreams.

I think all of that is quite powerful and healthy. People shouldn't live for the dead, Athy taught that to Claude. It's a pretty realistic outlook on grief, so even if (or maybe because) it's less romantic, I love it. That's what Diana would have wanted as well.

But Diana wasn't really a character in the novel, and that's a very valid criticism of it. She was little more than a plot device. Which, no matter how in love I am with the character haunts the narrative idea, I can see how could be an issue for some people. This, in my opinion, is the best change the manhwa introduces to WMMAP. Spoon made Diana a real character, even with her limited screentime. I can tell it was an important moment for Spoon because she made a whole dedicated blog post about it. Chapters 100-101 were just amazing. And okay, Athy deserved to meet her mom. C'mon.

Chapter 100 makes me tear up every single time I read it and this was not an exception

It's a less realistic depiction of moving on from a loved one's death, but the end result is similar to the novel's. Athy notes that Claude started taking care of himself, and actually sleeps in his bed. She has dreams of the life the three of them could have had, but doesn't look back in anger or bitterness, but with love for the mother that was always looking over her.

Also call me corny, but I adore how love is literally the most powerful force in the narrative. Forget imperial mana and black magic, Diana's love for Athy and Claude was so great that she was able to affect the real world (despite being dead, despite how a part of herself had already reincarnated!) to save Athy and assure her of how much she loved her.

What you said in your previous post about manhwas reflecting the thinking of Korean autoreas is so true!! it's frustrating because people analyze it with their western mentality and throw so much hate without bothering to try to understand the story. There are many things that I have noticed in the manhwa that are very different from things in the west (for example, the FL is always compared to an angel or a fairy lol) but something that caught my attention is that in the west it is It is very common that when we talk about an 'empowered woman' it is a woman who is good at physical fights, with super powers or good at using weapons with sarcastic personalitys and other things, while in manhwas (there are women like that too, of course) but something they have that the americans movies don't usually show is that the women here are very good at studying. That surprised me (and I liked it) because it is not very common to see women who work hard in the studios and enjoy it in USA movies, but they do in manhwas. One of the few movies that reflects this is legally blonde (and it's one of the best movies out there) plus I have a great love for academically validated female characters, they are literally my favorites in any story so reading that Athy really enjoyed studying made me fall more in love with her. Also when FLs have to act cute in order to survive, fans often throw so much hate at them saying they are irritating or ridiculous but they don't take the time to think that there are many ways to be a great female character without always using weapons, I have a great hatred for the term "soft fl" it seems too misogynistic to me that they are thrown down for that reason but waiting for the manhwa community to realize that is going to take a long time.

Another thing I remember is that in the novel Athy had many modern thoughts that surprised me, like when they talked a little about Korean society and I could feel a criticism of this or the things she said when some men harassed her and Jennette or when some men Men said that she would be happier married to a prince instead of being the next empress and she was very upset by her. Also when in his debut he said "one thing I learned is that boys have to look like boys and ladies look like ladies" (this stuck with me because it made me think of oversexualizing young children but maybe I'm overanalyzing it) There are many interesting things in the wmmap novel that people take out of context.

Another thing I've noticed is that in the East it's more typical to see this kind of "sunshine" girls who are sweet and cheerful, very kind, literally the kind of people that everyone loves and in manhwas they get so much hate, it's hateful. It's also not common to see this type of girls in the west and if they are, they are always hated. Ruby from How to get my husband on my side is truly one of the strongest female characters out there and is always looked down on just because she is softer compared to the other girlboss leads. Athanasia is a character who seems to be on the lookout for between these two terms but he still gets criticized for not having acted in a more "evil" way it's funny because the scene of Athy facing the nobles and then Anastascius screamed more power to me than many scenes I've seen in movies or series.

I just want to clarify that I love my villainous girls, medea and roxana are really amazing and I enjoyed women who do morally bad things, marianne, Cosette, soleia, I love them all. But I genuinely hate how they look down on 'soft fl'

The thing is, there are a lot of things in the novels/manhwas that I feel are critical or stereotypical of them that more western minded people take too much out of context and it's too frustrating, some people have a hard time understanding which does not have to be from their point of view.

sorry for all the rant lmao, i didn't mean to make it so long, it's just that this is one of my big problems with the manhwa community 😭

Have a good day!

Don't worry for the rant, anon! I think similarly to you as well.

I'm in the position that, while I live in a country that geographically and politically could be considered "the west" (what a long conversation that is lmfao), my culture doesn't perfectly align with "western" values and ideas. So when I see people sending hate towards manhwa, I notice how they often analyze them exclusively from their personal point of view and own biases, not realizing that asian media is very different from western media. I don't know if this is a problem of media literacy or it's that people think less of asian media as a whole. Hopefully it's the former.

But yes, most manhwas reflect korean values! Shocking, I know. Perhaps people get blinded by the western settings, but even if the characters "don't look" asian, they were made by an asian author, so obviously they reflect asian ideas and values. In that sense, they are asian characters. A similar discourse happens with anime and danmei/xianxia novels.

I think western readers have an easier time liking "girlboss" FLs and revenge fantasy stories because those are more common on this side of the world. But they struggle with more nuanced stories where the FL is not perfect, she does not solve everything with schemes or being a badass, is "weak", or (heaven forbid!) is able to forgive a family that hurt her in the past. This is the main criticism Athy gets, the fact that she was able to love Claude. I truly don't understand how people decide to even read WMMAP if they are so opposed to that idea, because that's the heart of WMMAP's story. Family holds a much bigger importance on the east compared to the west's individualistic idiosyncrasy, so of course most asian stories that touch the topic of family won't end in "if your family wronged you, fuck them". From where I'm from, family is also regarded as very important, so I can understand why a lot of manhwas are about rebuilding family relationships, not destroying them. And even then, you have plenty of revenge fantasies with cartoonishly evil families, so if that's what you prefer, you can read those.

Specifically korean media, it often touches topics like, generational trauma, misogyny, capitalism, etc. As you said, WMMAP addresses these things too in some way or another. I didn't think manhwa was particularly subtle as a medium (I know it's kinda ironic coming from me, but these are very simple stories, not Dostoevsky novels), but if people have trouble understanding the point of Parasite and Squid Game, then no wonder they can't pick up on these themes.

I'm not saying asian media or manhwas are above negative criticism. They have plenty of issues of their own. But if you are going to criticize something, you have to truly understand it, and reading anything disregarding cultural context or the own internal biases you may hold is at best foolish and at worst very ignorant. Western readers often have this mentality that all stories have to cater to them, when it's obvious that manhwas were made thinking of a korean public first and foremost.

(I dislike when people say Athy should have been more "evil". The whole point of her character is how her kindness and willingness to be empathetic with others and try to build honest relationships was what saved everyone. Villainesses AUs are fun, but when people truly say that Athy's character is weak because she chooses to feel love instead of hatred, because she is selfless instead of selfish- Why are you even reading WMMAP? And even then, she is far from "soft" and has plenty of "badass moments"...)

(News to me that Ruby gets hate, I thought she was the new manhwa darling. I stopped reading that series, but to me she was the best part of it by far. I think she is one of the only few good portrayals of a victim of physical abuse and ED in all manhwa. I have always disliked how those traits are just brushed aside as little things to endear the FL to the reader, but are never treated with the seriousness they deserve).

Rereading wmmap I realized that claude's mom has the same bangs as Athy and Claude and I love that Spoon did that 😭

You are right! She has the same type of bangs as Claude and Athy do. I think Spoon did a great job with their character designs showing how they are related to one another. They don't look identical, but are similar enough for you to think they are from the same family, especially Athy looking a lot like Diana and Claude, but also like young Anastasius. (I like to think that LP!Athy especially resembles Claude's mother. They have a similar fragile and melancholic air).

In other manhwas there are times when I wouldn't be able to tell characters are related if the plot didn't explicitly say it, so I think Spoon's special attention to detail and love for parallelisms really shines here. Sure, the jewel eyes are an obvious sign of Athy being Claude's daughter and Ana's niece, but their hairstyles are similar as well, the shape of their eyes and faces, and even their expressions and mannerisms. And yet Athy is also so much like Diana. She has the same wavy hair and slender figure, her smile is exactly the same, and she shares Diana's bright personality with a stubborn side, as per Claude's words (and apparently also the love for sweets, going by that one Diana chibi). I think her character design is the perfect balance between Claude and Diana's sides!

Athanasia's canon age

The age of WMMAP's characters is something people often wonder about, as we don't have much information on the matter. In this post I'll try to give the most accurate approximation possible of Athy's age, using canon facts both from the novel and manhwa. Maybe I'll do the same for Lucas and Aeternitas in the future, since they are also... complicated.

We know for a fact that LP!Athy was killed at exactly 18 years old (on her birthday, December 3rd...).

On the other hand, It's not explicitly stated how old Lee Jihye (Athy's first or second life, depending on the canon) was when she died, but the novel does gives us some facts:

Athanasia recalling her first life. Who Made Me A Princess (novel), Plutus, Chapter 1. Source: woopread translations.

Both novel and manhwa have the following scene from chapter 34, in which we (or rather, Lucas) find out how Athy used to look like back in Korea, but the novel gives us some more insight to what Lucas was thinking at the moment.

Lucas looking at Athanasia's original body. Who Made Me A Princess (novel), Plutus. Source: Lithi.

Panels from chapter 34 of the manhwa.

So, we know that Lee Jihye left her orphanage when she was about 18, and died in winter some time after that. She most likely worked for a couple of years before dying, so Lucas' impression of her being 20 checks out.

And finally, we have to account for wmmap!Athy's age. The novel ends on her 18th birthday, so no questions there. But what about the manhwa?

Athy's birthday is on December 3rd and Claude's on February 28th. Her debutante probably happened just a little after her 14th birthday, and Claude mentioned Kiel's dance with her 6 months after the debutante on chapter 43, which means that chapter 50 had to happen when Athy was already 15.

Because there are at least 6 months between chapters 86 and 121, Athy is also at least 15 and a half, but most likely about to turn 16 as she spent "a while" running away during the amnesia arc.

(Then again, she could already be 16, since there wasn't any mention of her 15th birthday in the manhwa, it could be the same for her 16th birthday.)

So, to answer the question of how old is Athy, we have to take these facts into account and decide if we are talking about her novel self or her manhwa self. Novel!Athy is not LP!Athy, so we can only add her years living in Korea and in Obelia after her reincarnation, which gives us a total of (at least) 38 years. On the other hand, Manhwa!Athy is LP!Athy after reincarnating twice, so she's (at least) 56 years old.

We could get into semantics, saying that it's only her soul that's 56 and that she doesn't remember much of LP for it to affect her mental age, but if we count the years Athanasia is 100% aware of living, we still reach a total of 38 mental years.

Okay, but does Athy consider herself to be that old? Well... yes, kind of. Throughout both novel and manhwa she comments about how embarrassing it is to act as a child at her age, she thinks of the noble ladies as "average girls" (the novel mentions Athy feeling like a mother watching them at their tea parties), and of Jennette as "just a 14 year old girl" (when she had doubts about Jennette having some sort of secret agenda). And finally, Lucas -aware of her whole situation since the beginning-, also comments multiple times about how Athy should be mindful of her age. Her being mentally an older adult is pretty indisputable.

So, there you have it, Athy is a 56 years old granny.

Is there a phrase that Athy has said that you like a lot? Or any other character? Is there a phrase that Athy has said that you like a lot? Or any other character? I personally think one of Athy's best lines was when he bowed to Claude on his birthday, it was really epic

That's a good choice! I'll keep this post about Athy, because I have too many favorite lines of hers. But overall, Lucas is probably the one who says the quotes I love the most. My favorites from the novel:

«Lucas, you brat... I'll kill you. Next time we meet, I'll really kill you!»

« I'm not yours, you are mine! »

« If this were a kid's story, everyone could have had their happy endings. No one would have been unfortunate or have any faults. In their perfect forms, everyone could have had their beautiful endings. »

Funny, romantic and thoughtful.

First one is funnier without context. Second one, everyone knows it, it's iconic, no explanations needed. Last one is from the final chapters. I think that line perfectly reflects the novel's philosophy, and it's a nice contrast with the manhwa's different take on the story. Neither is better than the other in my opinion, but rather, that contrast is what makes each other much more fascinating.

And as for the manhwa...

First, this classic (from both the novel and the manhwa). When you think about WMMAP, you think of this scene. Moving and heart-wrenching at the same time.

My absolute favorite quote... This felt like the one chapter where Athy finally exposed her heart to the reader. In volume 7's author notes, Spoon wrote about how she wanted Athy to learn that the love others gave her is not something to be gained or lost, and that she hoped Athy could in that way learn to love herself. That's it, that's Athy's whole character arc in a nutshell. Yeah I'm going to cry.

A simpler line but also a direct thematic continuation to the one shown above. The sequence leading to this is so impactful (I love the alliteration of people asking Athy her name. It's literal poetry, I'm not joking), and the scene that follows even more so...

Putting these scenes together really shows how much Athy grew over the course of the story, huh? From accepting she truly loved Claude but being willing to give that up, to confessing how afraid she was of losing her loved ones' affection, because it was the first time she held anything across three lifetimes, to finally realizing her true self and then being willing to sacrifice herself to protect those she loves.

Excuse me, I need to go cry for a bit...

About your post about Athy's name in other languages ​​(which I loved) it reminded me that when I started reading the manhwa I always confused the name of Athanasia with Anastasia to the point that I went to find out if they were the same and found that both they have the same meaning and that they come from Greece but I did not find any page that will confirm that it is the same but different variants. I also couldn't help but notice how Athanasia's name resembles Anastacious (which is technically the male version of Anastasia) and yes, the fact that both names have the same meaning may be why these two names sound so similar but Aeternitas also means Immortality and it doesn't look alike beyond the fact that it starts with A.

I found it interesting how Athy's name and Anas are similar and it made me wonder if at some point Claude must have had a deja vu hearing Athy's name (not only does she look like the woman he loved but also her name sounds similar to of the brother who killed lol)

I also mixed up "Athanasia" with "Anastasia" the first time I read WMMAP, but now I do the opposite. I have to remind myself all the time that no, it's not Athanasia Nikolaevna-

Funny thing about Aety's name is that it's the name of a goddess, and it doesn't really have a male form. I guess finding so many different greek names that mean immortality was hard for Plutus(?

That's an interesting thought! Athy and Ana's names are really close, so indeed I think she must have reminded Claude of his brother. There's also the fact that only the current emperor can give an immortal name to their heir, which draws an immediate parallel between them. As a side note, Diana was very daring naming Athy, as Claude himself notes, not only because of the name itself but also because Athy is a girl. His wording implied women aren't usually rulers in Obelia ("and a girl at that"). This is curious to me, since Obelia's first monarch, back when it was a kingdom and not an empire, was queen Ambrose. But I digress.

Athy speculates that Claude must have some sort of complex over the immortal names. Since he wasn't the empress' son he could only take the throne by force, but "he would never be granted the name of an emperor", unlike Anastasius and Athy. And well, there's also the fact that Claude means "the one who limps", "limping" or "crippled" (from the Latin “claudus”). Which makes one wonder if Aevum hated Claude that much to name him as an insult or what. Note that this is just one of Claude's meanings, but it's explicitly the one that Plutus used, as Athy refers to this plot point in the novel. Myself and others have theorized that Plutus based Ana and Claude's characters on real Roman emperors, and emperor Claudius indeed suffered from a limp and deafness, being ostracized by his family as a child. WMMAP Claude wasn't sickly as far as we know, but the ostracized thing definitely rings a bell.

Now, as far as I remember, it was never confirmed that Claude indeed felt inferior because of his name compared to Ana's (and Athy's), but I can definitely see how he could have felt like that, at least in his youth when Ana was the crown prince and Claude was treated so badly.

One thing I find rather sweet is that Claude remembered the bond he used to have with Ana when he spent time with Athy. It's because Athy melted Claude's heart and gave him something dear to him again that he started to remember Ana and to question their turbulent relationship. I adore how Athy's love and kindness had that effect on him (even though it wasn't enough for Claude to not want to execute Ana but shhh he still saved his ass because Athy asked him to. Small steps, you know?).

I also love Athy and Lucas. One of the things I like the most about them is that they are a meme together 😂 Always the funniest moments or the faces they make is when they are together. I also like how Lucas didn't realize immediately that he was in love with her, but had to go through several moments to realize it. And how Athy always told Lucas her thoughts (in fact, I think Lucas is the only character that Athy has been able to unburden 100% with). Also, since they are both so intelligent, they understand each other quickly, without the need to say things directly.

I also like how Athy feels the need to compete with him because she can't accept that Lucas is better than her and Lucas enjoys it 😭 Their relationship is so dynamic that you never get bored.

my favorite grumpyxsunshine

Right? They are so fun together. This is a personal taste thing, but I can't get into ships where they just skip to the romance part immediately. Don't you like each other as persons first? Aren't you friends?? Don't you have any chemistry outside of instantly falling in love???

Lucathy are so fun because they are legitimately great friends that slowly develop feelings for each other. Their personalities also go great together, all of their scenes are such a treat even outside of the romance stuff. They are just super funny. And yes, I agree that Athy has only been 100% honest with one person throughout the whole series, and that person is Lucas. Not even by the end of the manhwa did she reveal the truth to Claude, even if their relationship grew so much (I mean, can you blame her? I think Claude would kill himself if he knew about LP /hj).

Lucas also considers Athy his family (See chapter 100). And that's just so sweet to me. To see someone like Lucas, who was rejected by his biological family and then abandoned by his adoptive father, who literally froze his own heart and feelings, be melted by Athy's love and friendship... (crying a little). It's also pretty complementary to Athy's own journey and narrative. She, who was abandoned and killed by her biological family, who then had no one at all in her second life, finally find unconditional love an acceptance in Lucas (and Claude and co., of course). That's why I think lucathy are such a great ship from a narrative point of view. They mean a lot to the other, support each other and are each other's first friend. They quite literally grew up together, because until then neither Lucas nor Athy had been allowed to be children, despite their old age.

WMMAP is about family, and that includes Lucas. I think this focus on their relationship was an amazing addition by Spoon, it gave yet another layer to their dynamic.

Woah this began as a funny post and turned sappy. But there's so much to love about lucathy, they are honestly the best! I'm glad we all find different aspects of their relationship to love.

One of the things I love most about Lucas is that he has absolutely nothing to do with Lovely Princess. I love that Athy stayed with someone who didn't hurt her in her past life or was involved. (LET'S ignore he tried to kill her when she was a child lol)

Me too! In manhwas, it always makes me feel a little bothered when the ML was involved in making the FL miserable in her first life, even in the ones where she isekais (so no reincarnation) and he "just" treated the FL's character bad.

Lucas is different than the rest, he doesn't have a history in LP, that's also one of the reasons why Athy feels so comfortable with him. I would also argue that Athy got so far in life precisely because of Lucas (a pretty universal opinion, I know lmao. But let's be real, she and everyone would be 10 times dead without him). And the manhwa and novel are pretty explicit in that Lucas loves Athy not because it's "his role", he also doesn't like the Athys from the other dimensions because they are not our Athy, and doesn't even like the idea of the clone Athys! This might be controversial, but out of all the male characters, I think Lucas has treated Athy the nicest (after Felix, though I have a bone to pick with LP!Felix /j) and is legitimately the one who respects her the most (that scene in the novel where he tells her she doesn't have to feel forced to be with someone just because they like her is SO good, don't get me started. And how he just respects her wishes all the time, doesn't dare to touch her even when Athy kadebon-ed him, does things he doesn't agree with just for Athy's sake—).

As a side note, I have read people blame LP!Lucas for eating Blackie and leaving Athy without magic (this is only explicitly canon to the novel btw). And while yeah, that was shitty of him, it also indirectly saved LP!Athy's life. Why? Because that much mana would have crushed her heart, just like it almost happened in WMMAP (and again, Lucas saved her, though in a less asshole and more purposeful way lmao). You think LP!Claude would have cared enough to try to save her from her mana excess? No way. So yep, not that asshole of Lucas! /j

And about trying to kill her when he met her... well, that's Athy's type /j. If it helps, he feels absolutely terrible about it. The novel has a chapter dedicated to it where Athy is like, "btw were you trying to kill me back then? lol" and Lucas is like, "Nah those were normal bubbles I swear, you are imagining things" but inside he was feeling awful lmao.

They are the best, I think.

Character pins!

Athy's symbols are roses and a bird, Claude's seem to be peonies and a dragon, Lucas' are poppies and a butterfly, and Ijekiel's... daffodils and calla lilies?

Athy's description: The rose, Athanasia's signature, is expressed in the background when she appears, the story's direction and her debutante dress, and the thorny vines symbolize her past wounds and trauma. The bird is lovely Athanasia, and the heart painted a form that went beyond survival and became love itself.

Do you guys know what spoon was based on to decide the birthdays of the characters? or was it just random?

Some have a reason behind them, some apparently don't.

Jennette and Athy's have to be almost 12 months apart from each other because that's a plot point needed for the timeline to make sense (Penelope dies/Jennette is born -> Claude meets Diana -> Diana dies/Athy is born. Pregnancies are usually 9 months long and Athy is around one year younger than Jennette, so Jennette had to have been born early in the year and Athy by the end of it). This is supported by the novel, because there it was stated that Athy's birthday was late in the year.

In this video, Spoon goes over her reasons for some of the character's birthdays. She said that Athy's might be on early summer, like June or July, and Jennette's around early autumn, like September. That was most likely from a "character point of view" (Athy having more summer vibes and Jennette more autumn vibes? I can see it), but I think Spoon then remembered that they needed to have a year-ish of age difference lmao, so she changed them to the canon ones (January 6th and December 3rd). In the end, both have winter birthdays (but Obelia barely has any cold weather, so does it really matter?)

Claude's stayed on February (though fun fact: his birthday was on the 29th at first. That would have made him have his birthday on leap years, and we would joke about Claude being 10 lmao. Spoon quickly changed it to February 28th).

Original version from a screenshot I took on October 2021 vs Current version

Spoon also said in the video that Ijekiel's should be in spring (around March), Anastasius' in winter (on January), Roger on October (whoops, happy belated birthday, Roger), Felix in summer (on July), and Lily on August since her name is "lily", a summer flower.

And I'm convinced Spoon chose December 25th for Lucas' birthday because all special anime boys were born on christmas (oh, and Jesus too). He's also the only character who had the date 100% decided, with the others Spoon was like "Hmmm around this time of the year" and chose the exact days much later lmao, so it must have been on purpose.