#Greek women vs Greek goddesses
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Hello! Dropping by to say that I’ve been loving how much attention DwtL has been getting and I’m devouring the new Cambridge Companion edition on ATG lol. Super interesting stuff, and it’s explained in a way that makes sense to someone like me who has no official humanities research background—and thank you for always entertaining our questions :)
A little unrelated to ATG, and more so an overall question. Something that has always intrigued me was the dichotomy between revered goddesses in Ancient Greek religious practices, and the way the society treated its own women. (Athena = goddess of intelligence, among others = super derogatory attitudes toward women’s intellectual capacity?) Not limited to Greece only, of course: so many ancient cultures worshipped female deities, but suppressed their own women. I’m wondering if you had any theories for why this phenomenon persisted, because it’s been something I was mystified by for a while now.
First, thanks. I'm glad that more people seem to be discovering the novels, and apparently liking them well enough. And YES, the Companion is a great new addition. I'm especially pleased that Cambridge decided to price it such that more people can actually afford to buy it, besides academic libraries. That was one big problem with the prior one (2003) from Brill.
Down the decades (centuries) a lot of folks have asked your question! It’s one reason I point out that the status of goddesses (and heroines) shouldn’t be taken as indicative of the actual power or even agency of women in ancient Greece—although that also varied from place to place.
Time for my periodic reminder: ancient Greece wasn’t a single country. It was a series of independent city-states. Each of those belonged to one of three major (and a couple minor) linguistic dialects with their own unique social and religious traditions.
E.g., there’s not really such a thing as “ancient Greece.” That was a post-Persian War construct that owed more to propaganda than reality.* “The Greeks” fought each other more than they fought anybody else until quite late.
It’s very easy, especially at an intro-level, to accidentally conflate Athens with ancient Greece. Partly, it’s an evidence problem. Most of our evidence about ancient Greece comes from ancient Athens.
When it comes to women, this results in a particularly negative picture of female agency in pre-Hellenistic/pre-Roman Greece. Women in Athens were particularly disempowered, both (te) legally and (kai) actually. Let me explain that last.
Legal power = what a society ostensibly allows
Agency = what actually prevails, positively or negatively, in contrast to actual power
It’s important to recognize this distinction. Down the millennia, women have got rather good at circumventing legal restrictions via “subversive” power. We all know this. It’s why someone like Olympias got slammed by the likes of Plutarch. She didn’t “know her place.” Never mind that her legal “place” in Epiros versus Macedon versus various southern Greek city-states varied. Women in ancient Greece often found ways to exercise power outside legal bounds. Rather than “illegal,” we should refer to this as “alegal.”
Yet supposed legal power can be deceptive the other way too: it my imply more power than women actually have…just ask any rape survivor who has to testify in court in the face her reputation being smeared by the defense.
So, all that laid out as a basis, let’s look at mortal women vs. immortals.
Next point of definition: immortals are immortals not because they’re “good” or should be imitated but because 1) they don’t die (although some can be killed), and 2) they’re more powerful than mortals. They don’t play by the same rules and aren’t held to the same standards of “proper” behavior. Afterall, Zeus married two of his own sisters (Demeter, then Hera).
Religious festivals were also known for allowing “transgressive” behavior normally restricted in regular/normal/profane time. So, for instance, during the annual Thesmophoria, married women left their families to camp out together and form their own “city-state,” even electing temporary magistrates to run this 3-day city-of-women within the larger polis. Young girls on the cusp of their periods in Attika went camping to play the bear for Artemis at Brauron (and apparently other places). Etc.
Religious festival served an important function in ancient Greece, providing much-needed interruptions to the drudgery of daily life. In antiquity, relatively few cultures had regular “breaks” like weekends. Rather, religious festivals provided this function; these might range from a half-day break to something a week long or more. Perhaps it’s no surprise, then, that divine behavior was considered exceptional. The sacred (numinous) was sharply divided from the profane (normal).
Additionally, it’s no surprise if farming societies, or any society with a strong connection to the earth, should develop powerful goddesses. There are, of course, male fertility deities, but Mother Nature/Mother Earth is nearly universal. The only religion I can think of where the earth is male and the sky is female is ancient Egypt. (Recall Isis’s starry robe!) There are probably more, but it’s not exactly typical.
I’m not getting into the much-fraught debate about why women’s power in most historical societies has been less than men’s. Theories breed like hydra heads. But it is pretty well recognized that in societies where women had some control over their fertility (when to have babies, and how many), as well as independent control over their finances, their social status was higher. Beyond that, the best we can say is that which societies developed higher status for women depended on a constellation of factors.
Ironically—and perhaps counterintuitively—these factors didn’t involve the relative importance of female deities. Perhaps for reasons outlined above. Not all societies saw their divinities as living in ways mortals should imitate.
In her groundbreaking Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves—one of the first books to really look at the role of women in ancient Greece—Sarah Pomeroy herself noted the problem with the status of goddesses versus the status of flesh-and-blood women. Discussion of women in ancient Greece has grown more nuanced since. For a great little overview, let me recommend Lin Foxhall’s Studying Gender in Classical Antiquity (2013). I love this book because it looks at more than just texts (which is Pomeroy’s more traditional, Classical approach). Foxhall uses a lot of archaeology, which, when it comes to women (and slaves, for that matter) really fleshes out our perspectives. There’s also the more recent Exploring Gender Diversity in the Ancient World (Allison Surtees, Jennifer Dyer eds., 2020). It’s one of those great “collections” where you get the advantage of multiple voices contributing. It’s more about gender variance than women, but I quite like it. Last, let me also recommend Helen Morales’ Antigone Rising, which looks at Classical myth today, or reception studies. Morales is one of those Classicists who (like me) thinks it important to engage with the wider public, but she’s rather more prominent and respected. 😉
So, there’s some good, reliable literature to get you off the ground too, most intended for a non-specialist audience. (I’d tackle the first two and last before trying the collection, which is more specialized with some linguistic discussions, etc.)
——-
* Even in the Greco-Persian Wars, more Greek city-states didn’t fight the Persians than did!
#asks#Greek women vs Greek goddesses#women in ancient Greece#why is the status of Greek women so low when they also worshiped goddesses?#ancient Greece#Classics#religion and the status of women
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Gotta love how Zag's love interests are 1) The punisher of jealousy and oathbreakers, 2) Peaceful Death, and 3) Cute gorgon head maid who's a total sweetheart
While Mel's (possible) love interests are 1) Divine Retribution, punisher of hubris, 2) Doom (feared and hated by all mankind), 3) Strife (Greek pantheon's #1 troublemaker), and 4) Two mortals whose whole life story is a cautionary tale about hubris.
All the while unlike Zag, Mel's implied to have never had a romantic relationship before as an adult, based on her Aphrodite boon dialogues (to me, her and Icarus screams "childhood puppy love", which doesn't actually count as true relationship experience).
Girlie I think you need to get therapy or get laid. Preferably both. And soon.
...
I do think it's cute that at least between Meg/Than and Nem/Moros, both women are deliverers of punishment, while both men are embodiments of concepts that will inevitably arrive at the end of mortal lives. Dusa and Icarus + Arachne also fit the mold of "sweetheart dealing with power dynamics issues" (prince/servant vs. goddess/mortal, in Arachne's case a mortal maligned by gods).
Zagreus and Melinoë may have never known each other, but they somehow have the exact same bisexual taste, which is very important to me.
Also proof that they're DEFINITELY Persephone's children: got their mother's taste for tall big tiddy goths lmao.
#ksatalks#hades 2#hades 2 spoilers#THREE children of nyx on the crime scene of mel's messy dating life. it's so over for the house of hades#also i changed my mind. mel is the true love loses disaster bi rep#zag and persephone are the functional bis#melinoë hades#melinoë#zagreus hades#zagreus#megzagthan#megthanzag#zagdusa#melnem#melmor#meleris#waxwitch#melrachne
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Suspend Your Disbelief. Seriously.
One thing I've taught myself when it comes to interpreting literature, no matter what it is or where it comes from, is when something is left unsaid, I assume the best-case scenario.
An example: Greek Mythology.
Greek Mythology is notorious for having very...disturbing things happen. And yeah, it happens to even your favorites.
But something that ticks me off (on this website in particular) is exaggerating a myth.
I think Apollo is a very good example of this. I have heard "Apollo raped [insert name here]!" so many times, but you know what? They never back it up with actual sources! Just heresy!
Daphne? He never even touched her. Chased her? Yes, but people also tend to disregard Eros's own involvement in that matter. (i made a post about it and other things)
Castalia? Same as Daphne. also was a very late addition by the Romans and is not Greek
Cassandra? This is literally a case of a woman being given autonomy! If Apollo was literally any other god, she would have been raped - but he didn't! Curse her? Yes and there's a lot more to unpack here but that's another post but he never assaulted her! "But she was coerced-" NO SHE WAS NOT. AS A MATTER OF FACT SHE LOVED HIM. YEAH THAT'S RIGHT CASSANDRA LOVED APOLLO. PROOF IN THE TROJAN WOMEN:
Farewell, ye garlands of that god most dear to me! farewell, ye mystic symbols! I here resign your feasts, my joy in days gone by. Go, I tear ye from my body, that, while yet mine honour is intact, I may give them to the rushing winds to waft to thee, my prince of prophecy
also this is after the curse situation. so. they have NUANCES! and i like that. euripides be giving us NUANCES and i SALUTE him GIVE ME THE NUANCES PLEASE
I could go on and on. But one myth is a very good example of this "assume the best happened" vs "assume the worst happened" mindset.
Bolina. She was a mortal who Apollo fell in love with, but she threw herself off a cliff. Apollo turned her immortal to save her life, and that's the end of the story.
Yet I have heard people use Bolina's myth as "proof" that Apollo's a rapist.
First of all, I have a whole post basically debunking this notion, but also, where does it say. at any point. that Apollo raped Bolina?
(screenshot from Theoi.com)
Where.
That's right. Nowhere.
Sure, I guess you could assume it was done after Apollo turned Bolina immortal, but honestly, in my opinion, that's just grasping at straws. That's looking for something to complain about.
What I've learned is to assume the best happens. And guess what? That makes me enjoy mythology more! Suspend your disbelief! Not that difficult! Just because these myths are from ancient times doesn't mean terrible things happened all the time!
And I say this as an enjoyer of Mythology. This is not my religion, or my culture, but I am an avid enjoyer (particularly of Apollo's myths, hence why I used him as an example) and I do get irritated when these myths are twisted around in someone's quest to "prove" that a certain god usually Apollo is The Worst.
and it's kinda funny how people are determined to make Apollo this terrible, misogynistic asshole when...he's not. Then turn around and call the goddesses feminist girlbosses when they have also done fuck-up shit to other women.
Suspend the disbelief. You'll be happier.
#bolina#apollo#greek mythology#greek myths#greek myth#greek gods#greek goddesses#ancient greece#tagamemnon#mentioned rape#classical literature#apollon
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My dear half bloods, I have a theory...
Hi, there's something that's been bugging me since the other day, when I watched the fifth episode of pjo...
Spoilers from here (and a bit of mythology)
When Ares said that he didn't like his children... Okay, I know, I know the gods in this series aren't known for paying child support, but... I think Ares case could be more heartbroken than what we can think at first.
I want to start giving a bit of context in WHY I think there's something really sad behind his words and acts. First, let's talk a bit about mythology...
Ares cares about his children... In his own way.
I'll put a couple of quick examples (just mention something and move back to my point). Ares in Greek mythology it's known for many things and one that I found interesting was that he march in battle with his sons by his side: Phobos and Deimos (fun fact 1 these two are the personification of Panic and Fear, fun fact 2 they are also sons of Aphrodite... Fun fact 3, yes, they are the little "demons" that were the minions of Hades in the Disney movie.) Ares is also known for what happened to his daughter Alcippe, who was 🍇 by a son of Poseidon and Ares didn't took it too well... So he send that son of Poseidon to visit Hades... He unsubscribed that man from the world of the living with his spear... Ares was judged acussed by Poseidon of murder, but the goddesses voted in favor of Ares. (anyway, I invite anyone who is interested in ancient Greek mythology and culture to look up and read about women's rights in Sparta vs Athens, you might be surprised) Now, my point is that he might say that he doesn't like his kids but...
...I mean... he gave Clarisse the spear because he recognized her value as a warrior. It may sound stupid, but I think it was his way of saying that he was proud of her (and maybe he said that to her when he gave the spear to Clarisse, we don't know). What, it's clear, is the fact that she cherished that spear as if he really put all his love in it and said to her "this is my weapon, make me proud"
But why and how does he goes from "I fight with my children by my side in battle" and "don't you f*cking touch my daughter" to "I hate children, even my own"?
And here's when it gets sad, I think he has lose so many of his children in battle, dying too young, that he distance himself from them on purpose to not get too attached.
We've seen, pretty well portrayed in the show, how Ares children are more reckless in battle than Athena's (it's an example because they both are deities of war) so it's more than possible that if those children are in a quest or a battle, they decide to go face to face with the big baddie just to make Ares proud or to prove themselves they are strong enough to be warriors, children of Ares... And if they survived and get older, they are the most likely to end up joining the army... aaand that exposes them to die in battle even when the monsters aren't a problem anymore.
And that's why, I think, Ares had try to detached himself from his children, because he knows demigods don't live long and even if they got to be adults, he knows his children, and probably he knows they'll become soldiers to feel the battle and feel him closer even when they already have earned a peaceful life.
And that is why I think it's sad, because he probably is so proud of them...but also, he is probably so worried about them, that he had to decide if letting himself be vulnerable and care openly for his children or bottle up all his father instincts and detach himself from his children so nobody can weaponize them against him.
Aaaaaand now I'm sad...
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“ Her pupils were an inhuman swirl of lavender, teal and gold; Agathos eyes, a mark of the goddess Anesidora. ”
Aerea Tempest ⸻ a young woman from Corinth, Greece, struggling to find her calling. Raised in the Agathos circle, she always felt out of place next to other women her age—which could be seen and felt. So going her own way seemed a necessary decision, but it alienated her from her family and the other Agathos— especially their beliefs of ' guiding humans into the state of grace' and getting blessed by the goddess, like they have been. Even though she went through the mortifying ordeal of separating her beliefs from what she truly wanted from life, she still goes through her days using her rare gift of good luck, Eutychia, to help others at the cost of her own misfortune. [ CARRD. ]
⸻ inspired by greek/roman mythology, astrology and other lore. major themes: grief, loss, isolation, betrayal, change vs tradition, magic realism, destiny and not giving up.
MYCENAEA: an independent, fandomless, selective roleplay character crafted for fakevz. // established feb. 2024. MDNI, this is a 21+ only zone! you'll be blocked if I catch you. ger/eng, whatever you prefer.
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Round 2 Poll 5
Hera is the Greek goddess of marriage, women during childbirth, women and family.
Jesus was a Jewish preacher and religious leader. For Christians, he is God the Son, the savior announced in the Bible.
#godsnames tournament#tournament polls#round 2#hera wolf 359#wolf 359 hera#wolf 359 podcast#wolf 359#podblr#soos ramirez#gravity falls soos#gf soos#gravity falls fandom#gravity falls
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The Ushers as Greek gods & goddesses
Inspired by Juno, the sweetest step-mother, being named "Juno", Roman counterpart for Hera, THE Evil Step-mother. Just as most of the characters don't completely fit one Seven Deadly Sins, some have gods combos. *SPOILERS*
Roderick (Zeus/Apollo)- Patriarch, a "king on high" as a CEO of huge influential company. Gifts his (often "bastard") progeny with power aka wealth, but he also can be hands-off, demanding, and cruel (mean ol' "sky daddy"). One of Zeus' favorite sons is Apollo and you can see aspects of Apollo, god of cities and the legal system, in younger Roderick: straight-laced and ambitious, but also had a poetic side to him (Apollo was credited with inventing the lyre). Apollo, of course, had an older twin sister, Artemis, whom he was close to.
Madeline (Artemis/Athena)- Madeline is the more "ungovernable" twin sister of Roderick; Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo who ruled in the wilderness. Madeline doesn't think much of most men apart from Roderick; Artemis had her male lovers and was close to her brother but she mostly ran with female posse of nymphs. However, Mad also reminds me of Athena, goddess of war strategy, and often the right-hand woman of father Zeus and the many male heroes she mentors into greatness; Mad is the more strategic of the twins and she was the power behind the throne. Worth noting that Athena was born springing out of Zeus' head, almost like the reverse of a twin absorbing their sibling in the womb.
Frederick (Apollo/Aries)- Frederick is the heir apparent, an offshoot of his father but not quite as good as his father. He gives big Apollo "son" energy even at middle age: juvenile in his slacking off of responsibilities (demolishing company buildings), Teacher's Pet attitude with his dad vs. being an ass to his siblings; his phobia of elevators earns him the childish nickname of "Sweaty Freddy". However, he's established to have been a good father to Lenore (at first); Aries is one of the few fathers in the Greek pantheon to give a fuck about his female children. However, Aries has a temper and is the god of war in it's most chaotic brutality (oppose to Athena's logical war strategy). After learning his wife was at an orgy, effectively cheating on him, Frederick spirals into an angry sadism, brutal and cruel.
Tamberlane (Hera/Athena)- Tam is an ambitious woman but a key part of her strategy of gaining power is through marriage: she picked out a man with the right sort of brand to help her pivot her inherited money & cache into the wellness business. She thinks herself more worthy of being Roderick's heir than Freddy, with her cooler head and logical planning (Aries vs. Athena). Hera is the goddess of marriage and so much of her mythos revolves around how her husband cheats on her and how she gets her control back by taking it out on the woman Zeus "seduces". In a twist, Tam controls her husband by making him cheat with women who look like herself (Hera btw is said to be vain; she's often symbolized with a peacock feather). Worth noting she especially of the siblings seems to hate Juno (Roderick's Hera; she calls Juno "it") but Juno tries to reach out to her the most (wife to wife?).
Victorine (Athena/Aphrodite)- Vic is a scientist, just as ambitious as Tammy, but she works closer with her father and is anxious to make him proud (might she wish to be Daddy's Little Girl and new right-hand woman?) I'm guessing Victorine has some legitimate STEM talent but Camille notes that the heart mesh was really the invention of Vic's wife, Al, and implies Vic seduced Al into a partnership, in the lab and in bed, to attain shared glory. Aphrodite, goddess of love, is charming to be sure, but self-centered: Vic willingly charmed a innocent woman into a surgery that likely would be fatal in pursuit of glory. She also commits a "crime of passion", killing her lover in a fit of rage. And her story centers around a heart (heart = love).
Napoleon (Hermes)- Hermes is the messenger god, always flying to-and-fro, light on his feet and a light-touch in life. He plays tricks on people but you can't stay mad at him, he's so charming (see the myth of him stealing from big bro Apollo right out the cradle). He's empathetic but ultimately flaky; Leo likewise is a fun, charming dude, bringer of drugs and Camille's key messenger of spin after Perry dies. He's close enough with some of his siblings to hang out with them, to offer them advice, and to mourn them when they are gone. But Leo is a cheater, inconstant to his boyfriend; he also often "flies" from reality by indulging of copious amounts of drugs, and tries to "fly" from the consequences of (allegedly) killing Pluto.
Camille (Aphrodite)- Aphrodite, along with what was said above, is beautiful, big on pleasure, and jealous, oh so jealous. Camille puts care into her appearance (that hair ain't natural), and is quite sexual, hiring her assistants to pull double-duty to service her in the bedroom as well as the office. She's also creative in her PR work, and Aphrodite loves the act of creation (or procreation, if you get me). But Camille is very jealous, mostly of Victorine. Camille can't help but be her brash self but, perhaps because her sister has that Athena side to her, Vic easily hides the same selfishness and callous nature they share, and Cam finds that infuriating.
Prospero (Dionysus)- Dionysus is the god of wine and a rip-roaring good time (pun intended). Dionysus was said to inspired hedonist frenzy in his followers and Perry wanted to do exactly the same to the patrons of his clubs (to blackmail them later). Also, Dionysus is a "newer" god compared to his siblings and Perry is the youngest.
Lenore (Persephone)- the "lightest" member of the Usher clan, Lenore embodies the sweet nature of springtime goddess of Persephone; she loves her mother fiercely as Persephone loved Demeter, but in a twist, it is the daughter who rails against and defies the gods (Frederick) to save her mother. In the end, Lenore goes to the Underworld, but just as Persephone becomes a powerful Queen there, Lenore's memory ultimately changes millions of lives.
#the fall of the house of usher#fall of the house of usher#tfothou#mike flanagan#greek mythology#meta#flanaverse#netflix#the fall of the house of usher netflix
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Right, so there is something I have to bring up with the story "The Harrington Design" and that's author knowledge verses character knowledge.
Steve is a nineteen year old boy in 1980s hick Indiana. What he knows could probably fill a thimble. If Steve says something wrong or something that is recent knowledge, just remember I've already addressed it here:
Steve ducked his head again and blushed. “Just because I’m not interested in science and fantasy doesn’t mean I’m stupid.” He straightened up. “And yeah, sometimes I get things wrong. But everyone does at some point. In fact I get a hell of a lot more flack for my intelligence than Eddie does and he repeated his senior year twice!” He took a deep breath and then ran his fingers through his hair.
So what is character knowledge vs author knowledge:
Author Knowledge:
I want to preface that I am not ragging on the book, I'm sure it's delightful. "Red, White, and Royal Blue" has the main character as the Prince of Wales, despite the fact that he is fourth in line to the English throne. A quick google search would tell the author that his mother, the heir to the throne, would be the Princess of Wales.
This is author knowledge. But this is an extreme example when most of the time it's more about in universe stuff that a character wouldn't know.
Character Knowledge:
This anything a character would know. But remember that characters are people and their knowledge wouldn't be perfect.
A good example of this is from "Percy Jackson and the Last Olympian". He comes across a statue that is holding a horn of plenty and he confuses her for Demeter (the statues were designed by Daedalus to come to life to aid New York if it ever came under attack) and she gets mad at him because she's Pompona the Roman goddess of plenty. Percy has only ever interacted with Greek gods so it was an easy mistake to make.
Does that make sense?
It's not the author getting things wrong, it's that the character has limited knowledge. And Steve wouldn't know about religious clothes, women's clothes, or weapons used at the time. Because he wouldn't have been interested in them. Broader things like how to string a bow or what a gambeson is, he'd know. But the rest? Middling knowledge at best.
Also for those new to my writing: I delete anonymous asks that are hate, make me mad, or just straight up upsets me. I won't engage. Mmk?
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OK we are actually doing this! Here I have listed the contestants of the greek tumblr sexywomen poll, complementary to @sugaroto 's sexyman polls. This polls is more accurately the "greek iconicwomen of tumblr" lol. I will be updating this list and providing links when a new poll is posted
Round 1
Aliki Vougiouklaki (old actress) vs Aggela Ioakimidou (tv show: Στο Παρά Πέντε/ In the Nick of Time)
Aspasia (Pericles' wife but great in her own way) vs Vicky Kaya (tv presenter)
Sappho (poet) vs Medusa (mythical gorgon)
Xena (tv show: Xena: Warrior Princess) vs Katerina Sakelaropoulou (judge/greek president)
Eleni Vlachaki (tv show: Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης/Konstantinou and Eleni's) vs Maria Solomou (actress)
ZoePre (YouTuber/podcast host) vs Zoumpoulia Abadjidou (tv show: Στο Παρά Πέντε/ In the Nick of Time)
Matina Mantarinaki (tv show: Κωνσταντίνου και Ελένης/Konstantinou and Eleni's) vs Σαββατογεννημένες/ Women-born -on-Saturday (tv show cast) (yes I am putting them all as one entry 'cause we couldn't decide)
Aglaia Karagiozi (shadow puppet theater) vs Aglaia (tv show: Το Καφέ της Χαράς/ Hara's Caffe)
Eleni Foureira (singer) vs Sophia Hadjipanteli (part of the GNTM jury)
Amalia Antonopoulou (tv show: Στο Παρά Πέντε/ In the Nick of Time) vs Sophia Laskaridou (painter)
Eleni Menegaki (tv presenter) vs Eleutheria Karadimou (goddess amateur author, director, screenwriter, actress ect)
Arleta (singer) vs Maria Lekaki (actress)
Mimi Denissi (actress) vs Empress Theodora (byzantium empress)
Katerina Lehou (actress) vs Laskarina Bouboulina (greek independence fighter)
Mascot of Papadopoulou biscuits vs mascot of Nounou milk (greek enough i think?)
Soso (tv show: Εγκλήματα/ Crimes) vs Vicky Georgiou (tv show: Ευτιχισμένοι Μαζί/ Happy Together)
Jenny Karezi (old actress) vs Christina Markatou (tv show: Dolce Vita)
Angeliki Nikolouli (tv presenter, researcher about crime cases) vs the head builder's wife (character in the Bridge of Arta story)
Bessy Argyraki (singer) vs Manto Maurogenous (greek indepence fighter)
Vefa Alexiadou (tv presenter/food specialist) vs Hypatia of Alexandria (philosopher, astronomer, mathematician)
Petroula Kostidou vs Sofia Vempo (old singer/actress)
Maria Callas (singer) vs Helen of Troy (mainly the Illiad)
Penelope Delta (author) vs Melina Merkouri (old actress/activist/politician)
Marina Diamandis vs Rena Vlahopoulou
#greek sexywomen of tumblr#i decided against adding the goddesses because we don't need another μήλο της έριδος situation#and out of respect#as i said this is mainly the greek iconic women. most of them are known for way more than their looks#the polls are not up yet btw
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fearless- games! (cym, fmk, etc.)
cym as your book bfs and gfs (we need to know what literary hotties live rent free in your mind)
oh boy oh boy oh boy
you're really making me use my brain here. this was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be
@thyme-in-a-bubble- louisa clark from me before you (she's precious and adorable and deserves the world just like you)
@saintmurd0ck- evelyn hugo from the the seven husbands of evelyn hugo (you know why <;3)
@itwasthereaminuteago- peeta mellark from the hunger games (he's so wholesome and everyone's biggest supporter and looks out for everyone and you're very much a precious cinnamon roll like him)
@pleasurebuttonwrites- nick carraway from the great gatsby (you're a bit of a wallflower sometimes, but you have a big heart and you make people feel like they can tell you anything bc you're a safe space)
@theradioactivespidergwen- patrick from perks of being a wallflower (you are hilarious and crack me the fuck up, you're not afraid to call people out on their shit, and you have total main character energy)
@farfromstrange- jo march from little women (aside from her also being a writer, she’s a daydreamer and fiercely loyal to those she loves and I can see a lot of her in you)
@mars-rants-a-lot- buttercup from the princess bride (I love hearing about all the little adventures you go on <;3)
@desert-fern- arya stark from game of thrones (she is that bitch and so are you)
@courtforshort15- annabeth chase from percy jackson (I always thought she was so cool bc she was so clever and smart and creative and I feel like if you were a child of a greek god/goddess it would definitely be athena)
@spoodermain- simon spier from simon vs the homosapiens agenda (simon is a comfort character for me and you’re my comfort person <;3)
#court's 3k friends celebration#court’s 3k followers celebration#the eras tour (court's version)#court answers
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ANCIENT WOMAN THUNDERDOME 2023: Masterpost!
Link to old pinned post (articles about racism and white supremacy in classics) HERE.
The event: Poll bracket to answer the central question: which woman from ancient Greek or Roman myth and literature would win in a fight?
The rules: Vote based on who would win in a fight, NOT who you like more. Consider factors such as physical prowess, intelligence or cunning, and magical ability.
If the character has multiple non-godly forms, consider the one you believe to be more powerful. If the character is a goddess for a portion of their life, please only consider their mortal or non-godly form.
The tags: All posts related to the bracket are tagged "ancient woman thunderdome 2023." All fights are tagged "who would win."
The bracket:
[image description: a bracket titled Ancient Woman Thunderdome 2023. it lists 32 matchups between 64 women. all matchups are listed below. end image description.]
The fights:
ROUND ONE (bolded denotes currently active fights!):
Clytemnestra vs. Niobe
Electra vs. Iphis
Chrysothemis vs. Cassiopeia
Iphigenia vs. Semele
Procne vs. Creusa
Callisto vs. Europa
Daphne vs. Lysistrata
Philomela vs. Andromeda
Penelope vs. Antiope
Atalanta vs. Stheno
Dido vs. Lavinia
Penthesilea vs. Nausicaä
Camilla vs. Anna
Briseis vs. Lesbia
Agave vs. Chryseis
Phaedra vs. Charybdis
Antigone vs. one of Hephaestus' "golden fembots"
Helen vs. Deianeira
Ariadne vs. Eurydice (from Antigone)
Hecuba vs. Iambe
Andromache vs. Echo
Eurydice (Orpheus' love) vs. Psyche
Ismene vs. Tiresias
Jocasta vs. Scylla
Medea vs. a siren
Circe vs. Cressida
Cassandra vs. Leda
Medusa vs. a maenad
Hippolyta vs. Galatea
Arachne vs. Pasiphae
Pandora vs. Danae
Io vs. Calypso
ROUND TWO:
Clytemnestra vs. Electra
Cassiopeia vs. Iphigenia
Procne vs. Callisto
Lysistrata vs. Philomela
Penelope vs. Atalanta
Dido vs. Penthesilea
Camilla vs. Lesbia
Agave vs. Charybdis
Antigone vs. Helen
Ariadne vs. Hecuba
Andromache vs. Psyche
Tiresias vs. Scylla
Medea vs. Circe
Cassandra vs. Medusa
Hippolyta vs. Pasiphae
Pandora vs. Calypso
ROUND THREE:
Clytemnestra vs. Iphigenia
Callisto vs. Lysistrata
Atalanta vs. Penthesilea
Camilla vs. Charybdis
Antigone vs. Hecuba
Psyche vs. Scylla
Medea vs. Medusa
Hippolyta vs. Calypso
ROUND FOUR (quarterfinal!):
Clytemnestra vs. Callisto
Atalanta vs. Camilla
Hecuba vs. Scylla
Medea vs. Hippolyta
ROUND FIVE (semifinal!):
Clytemnestra vs. Atalanta
Scylla vs. Medea
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a rant/series of ideas
So I've posted these on SB before but to put it simply, the phandom is stagnant. The same ideas are repeated over and over again mixed up but too similar to tell apart. Over on ao3s dp crossover section I've noticed a ton of these stories are created after the author reads a prompt here so I figured I'd gather the posts I've made on SB and post them here in hopes those authors can see them. I'm just copy/pasting these so they will look weird as they were originally posted on SB and I can't be bothered to edit them.
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So yall know how d.c. crossovers are really common. Well I just had a small idea to add to the list of why heroes don't usually kill, batman especially. Obsessions can help make ghosts and few people are more obsessed than villains, the heroes know this and don't want to risk powering up their rogue gallery more, especially since hell is real and as we saw with deathstroke/slade it's easy to make deals and return. Just another angle to add for those crossovers. Last thing anyone wants is a ghost/demon empowered joker running around.
We have tons of danny phantom dc crossovers but not a single one has Cujo join the super pets for adventures. This is a crime that should be rectified immediately. Best pup should be allowed to play with Ace and Krypto and fight animal crimes.
What aren't there any stories where danny is in the marvels zombies storyline, or dceased, or blackest night, or even the new dc vs vampires storyline.
Why are almost all horror stories about him being tortured when there are perfectly good zombie apocalypses he can fight in. I'd love to see danny wield a black lantern ring and be in total control because he's already dead and as such doesn't need to eat hearts to gain power.
I'd love to see danny get bite by a vampire only for them to taste what's basically deadmans blood. We need less secret sibling, torture filled, betrayal fics and more danny pulling a doomslayer and fighting trigons armies when he invades.
Pariah Dark pulling amity into the gz would have gotten international attention just like cannon. Something that's brought up but never really explored are meta humans rights clashing with the anti ecto laws, I'd love to see the various magic users testifying in congress, debunking the fentons beliefs that ghosts aren't people and as such deserve the same rights as everyone else.
Also I'd love to see walker put in control of arkham, blackgate, or Belle reve. He'd have those places on lockdown, and the thought of the joker trying to escape only for walker to toss him back in his cell is hilarious to me.
All these DC crossovers but not one shows an alternate danny in the justice lords, injustice, or crime syndicate version of the league.
I'm tired of rereading the same stuff, let me read about an evil crime boss danny or one who rules over the GZ like how the justice lords rule earth, or one that sides with superman after metropolis gets nuked. So many alternate worlds, timelines, and dimensions to choose from and they always pick the same ones.
Forget JLU, YJ, or TT let me see danny in the justice league dark apocalypse war movie as a trigon possed Dan Phantom and have him fight Darksied
The infinite realms is so underutilized in the dc crossovers, and just the phandom in general.
You have an entire dimension that can take you any when and anywhere you want/don't want and you don't use it to let superman meet his parents before krypton blows up, or any other orphan superhero for that matter.
Hell you don't have to save his family, you can set up a stable time loop where this meeting is what convinced them to send him to earth rather then any of kryptons dying colonies.
Have Pandora meet wonder women, I don't think I've seen anything more then a passing reference about her in any dc stories to date. The 4 armed ghost of a Greek Goddess would absolutely be something the Amazon's would want to meet.
I'd love to see more stories exploring the factions in the gz like make up a rivalry between the far frozen and Atlantis before the yetis died out and less stories about Lazarus pits being ectoplasm, and Danny bring the lover/secret brother to the entire bat clan.
Give me poison ivy possed by Undergrowth or the joker being terrorized by the box ghost because joker gas doesn't work on the dead. Hell weather wizard/ any other weather villain teaming up with vortex would be fun. Or have technus hijack brainiac/amazo, now that be a good threat.
Let's see Danny put on the helmet of fate and fight klarion because he's not at the same level as the cosmic forces of order and chaos rather then the gz being some super dimension that John "I sold my soul to 30 devils, 10 gods, an angel and a fae" Constantine is too scared to touch. Pariah was powerful, but he ain't Darkseid, Trigon, Child, or Nekron powerful.
Let's see more, superheroes deal with ghostly shit rather then Danny runs away/moves to Gotham for the 30th time. Like lets say the flash has to deal with Kitty and Johnny joy riding in Central city but he can't touch them or freakshow stops in Gotham and kidnaps Jason since the phandom is obsessed with making him a halfa or halfa adjacent. So much potential and none of it explored!
So, yall know how the phandom likes to make ectoplasm an emotional conduit. Where ghosts either can feel / feed on emotions and ectoplasm can have emitions without being a ghost, usually when talking about the pit rage Jason has in the DC stories. Well, let's roll with that and add the Emotional Entities that the lantern corps use.
If ghosts feed on emotions then the lanterns are basically walking snacks, if they sense emotions then the lanterns are walking flash bangs, and if ectoplasm can have emotions then let's have some ghosts get lantern rings simply because they are emotions given physical forms.
Also, yall know how the Danny defeats pariah and becomes king stories are a whole thing, why doesn't that apply to Dan?
Rant/prompt ideas done for now but I have so many more. Let's bring some life back to this half dead phandom.
#danny phantom#dc fandome#danny fenton#ghost zone#marvel#fanfiction#archive of our own#story ideas#crossover#phandom#young justice#teen titans
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Fourteen Flames
Valyria's pantheon of Gods & Goddesses (Old Valyria main religion)
Gaelithox – The god of fire. Ruler of the fourteen flames of Valyria, father of gods & dragons (Uranus/Zeus)
Meraxes – The goddess of fertility and motherhood, protector of women. Wife to Gaelithox, mother of gods and to birth the first dragons (Hera/Hestia)
Balerion – The god of death (Tartarus/Hades)
Vhagar – The goddess of war (Ares/Athena)
Syrax – The goddess of love (Aphrodite/Hera)
Caraxes – The god of the skies, ruler of the sun, the light and daytime. Protector of dragonriders (Crius/Apolo)
Vermithor – The god of harvest and agriculture, the protector of men (Pan/Demeter)
Arrax – The god of the seas (Poseidon/Tethys)
Tyraxes – The goddess of the night, ruler of the moon (Nyx)
Meleys – The goddess of magic. Protector of dragons and the Fourteen Flames (Hecate/Phoebe)
Vermax – The goddess of the hunt, the wilderness and the animals. Protector of travelers and the messenger of the flames (Artemis/Hermes)
Morghul – The god of time. Creator of the fourteen flames (Chronos)
Tessarion – The goddess of music, dance, poetry, wine and feasts (Dionysus)
Shrykos – The god of darkness, of all things evil, of monsters and tragedies
source of inspiration: https://greektraveltellers.com/blog/the-greek-gods; https://greekgodsandgoddesses.net/greek-vs-roman-gods;
https://iron-throne-roleplay.fandom.com/wiki/The_Gods_of_Old_Valyria;
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Review of Monarch Lore + Musing on Pygmalion
Come Back Home Concept Film
Human world ruled by monarchs
Monarchs were jealous of Helios (I think the translation is supposed to be Helios was jealous of the monarchs but the English v/o says it this way)
Ppl worship monarchs instead of Helios
Helios threatens to take away the sun
The humans sacrifice the monarchs to Helios
Helios exiled the monarchs and their servants
Helios makes them vampires
Monarchs only drink from evildoers, continue to protect humans
Cursed servants bitter about their curse/humans betraying them, so they massacre any humans they find
Servants worship moon and wait for child to be born on day of eclipse
Use child for ceremony to bring eternal night
Child is born
War between monarchs and servants to protect child lasts 10 yrs
In final battle, monarchs win
When killing last leader of the servants, he tells monarchs “when red moon comes back, i will too for the kid”
Then night sky turned red
TBONTB Story Film #1
Souls of defeated servants sealed inside necklace
Monarchs realize that as long as they exist together, humans could “never escape the bridle of pain”
“Call Us Ishmael”* monarchs also put their souls in the necklace
* = in Islamic theology, Ishmael (among being a prophet and patriarch) is the son of Ibrahim (Abraham) who Ibrahim almost sacrifices to show his devotion to God--only stopping when God tells him that he's shown his devotion to God.
monarchs consider their sacrifice a sign of devotion to humans?
TBONTB Story Film #2
Helios grieves Phaethon
Helios turns grief to anger, directs anger toward monarchs
Helios takes away monarch’s powers, imprisoned them in shattered remains of sun chariot*, puts them in endless slumber
Only way to escape is to get blood of prophetic child’s descendants
Hundreds of years pass
* = In Greek mythology, Phaethon dies after attempting to control his father Helios's sun chariot. After many complaints "from the stars in the sky to the earth itself," Zeus strikes Phaethon down with a lightning bolt and his corpse falls back to earth.
Pygmalion
In the Roman poet Ovid’s Metamorphoses, Pygmalion is a sculptor who, upon finding faults with human women, sculpts an ivory woman so perfect he falls in love with it. After treating the statue like a romantic partner (kissing it, buying it gifts, making a bed for it), Pygmalion makes offerings to Aphrodite’s altar on the goddess’s festival day. He wishes for a bride who would be “the living likeness” of his ivory statue. He returns home, kisses the statue once–finds the lips warm–twice–the ivory is no longer hard. Pygmalion ends up marrying the statue-turned-woman, and they have at least one child.
Logo motion shows ivory background turning to black
Suggests corruption? Or perhaps a dark side? Perhaps the monochrome palette, like the yin and yang of Chinese philosophy, represents the balance of natural dualities (e.g. winter vs summer, disorder vs order)
Track list
Intro: Lethe
In Greek mythology, Lethe is one of the rivers in the underworld. Whoever drinks of the river “experiences complete forgetfulness”
According to Ovid, the Lethe flows through the cave of the Greek god of sleep, Hypnos, and the river’s murmuring “induces drowsiness”
Connection to monarchs’ endless slumber?
Erase Me (title track)
Unforgettable
Counter-track to first two tracks?
Echo
Lyrical and compositional contributions by Leedo woop woop
In Greek mythology, Echo is a mountain nymph. The king of the gods, Zeus, often visits nymphs on Earth, and Hera, his wife, becomes suspicious of these visits and sneaks to Earth to attempt to catch Zeus with the nymphs. Zeus orders Echo to protect him from his wife, so she endures Hera’s rage and Hera curses her to “only be able to speak the last words spoken to her”.
In Ovid’s Metamorphoses, Echo, after being cursed, spots a man hunting deer with his friends. Echo falls in love with the man, Narcissus, at first sight and follows him. Narcissus becomes separated from his friends. He calls out, “is anybody there?” and Echo repeats his words back to him. He calls out “come here” and once again, Echo repeats his words back to him. Given that nobody has come out of their hiding spot so Narcissus can see them, Narcissus believes the person he’s talking to is running away from him. He yells, “this way, we must come together!”--which has Echo, believing his words to be a confession of reciprocal love, say “we must come together!” Echo runs out to Narcissus and attempts to embrace him, but he scorns her and she runs away humiliated. Despite the rejection, Echo only continues to love Narcissus more and more. Narcissus falls in love with his reflection and wastes away in front of it, and Echo mourns over his body. When Narcissus says his final words, “Oh marvelous boy, I loved you in vain, farewell”, Echo says, “farewell”. Echo herself begins to waste away. Her beauty fades, her skin shrivels, and her bones become stone. All that remains of her is her voice.
Halley’s Comet
A comet visible from Earth every 75-79 yrs
The only known short-period comet that is regularly visible to the naked eye from Earth
Will next appear in 2061
Miscellaneous
In the track list, Intro: Lethe is superimposed over what appears to be a white statue
In track list, Erase Me has modern theatre masks below the song’s title
In ancient Greek theatre, actors wore masks to more immerse themselves into their characters–since they weren’t showing their face, they could ‘melt’ into the mask’s face and “vanish” into the role
Said masks often wore exaggerated expressions intended to inform audiences about the character’s disposition/characteristics (e.g. social status, sex, etc.)
The masks also allowed actors to portray multiple distinct characters without the audience knowing
As such, masks also aided in transitioning from one character to another
In the track list, Unforgettable has what appears to be a television beneath the title
In the track list, Echo has what appears to be a water ripple beneath the song’s title
In the track list, Halley’s Comet is superimposed over what appears to be flowers
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Some Spn Sapphic aus ideas / tropes / concepts :
The classic breakdancers vs cheerleaders.
All girls school for the supernatural.
Help center volunteers.
Faking to be nuns (for a case!).
Baseball team vs Soccer team.
As Greek Myths or Goddesses.
She-Ra and the Princesses of Power au.
Powerpuff Girls World au.
Seeing each other souls/true forms.
Changing eye color when they're in love.
Working at the same office!
New Year party that goes wrong (funny way).
Working a case together (and showing off).
Only their soulmates can use their blood/grace/part of their being in rituals.
They're stuck together while they're sick.
Greek au of women as maidens on the temple of the goddess Amara.
*feel free to use these! Just tag me, please <3
#supernatural#spn#sapphicnatural#Sapphic spn#Sapphic supernatural#Spn au ideas#Spn ideas#Spn fic ideas#Spn au#Spn aus#Spn fics#Spn fic#Spn fanfics#Supernatural fic#Supernatural fanfic#Supernatural fics#Supernatural fanfics#Supernatural fic ideas#Supernatural fanfic ideas
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Round 2 Poll 14
Metis is a Greek nymph and Athena's mother. She's the goddess of wisdom, deep thought and prudence
Hera is the Greek goddess of marriage, women during childbirth, women and family.
#godsnames tournament#tournament polls#round 2#metis persona#p3 fes#p3fes#p3#persona 3#persona games#persona 3 fes#gameblr#hera syndulla#hera star wars#rebels hera#star wars hera#hera rebels#star wars rebels#star wars
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