#Fringe meta
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Per your lovely, lovely flawed show tag, I am curious what you think the flaws of Fringe are?
I’m sorry it took me so long to answer, I got distracted!
Fringe definitely had its share of flaws. I won’t even address the ones that can “be excused” by the fact that it was a show made before/early 2010s in terms of representations/inclusions, because you know, it is what it is.
I think my biggest ‘regret’/annoyance has always been the writers’ tendency to…shove traumas under a rug, or to not properly (if at all) talk about the consequences of some events that happened. I get that they had to make the characters go through a lot of drama because that’s the point of stories, especially on TV shows that have over 20 episodes per season, but the characters suffered through some terrible stuff time and time again, and they were just FINE. And it’s not like they didn’t know how to do it!
I’ve always loved the first few episodes of season 2 because they showed recovery. Olivia had a bad car accident, then she had to kill “Charlie”, and it took her time to get better from all of that, not just physically but emotionally, too. And yet, over and over again after that, she goes through horrible things and there’s…almost nothing? Like, I adore Marionette, I think it’s a brilliant episode through & through, but I still can’t believe Olivia went through all the shit she went through Over There (and coming back) and didn’t have some serious PTSD, on top of EVERYTHING ELSE she’d already gone through (aka why I wrote Shivered Bones). Peter too was barely allowed to mention what Walter did to him after he came back at the end of season 2, barely ever allowed to mention what Altlivia did to him either, except in some awkward bits of dialogue (I will discuss Peter’s character a bit more later).
Also, the whole REWRITING THE TIMELINE at the end of season 3?? Biggest cop-out. I mean, I’ve never hid the fact that any kind of ‘amnesia’ plot is honestly one of my LEAST favorite tropes, in anything. From the moment that season started airing and Peter reappeared being a complete stranger, I just disliked that so much on principle. But what will always pain me is how by doing so, the writers completely erased not just Peter but THE FIRST THREE SEASONS.
Like, poof, gone.
(adding a 'keep reading' because this is long 😂)
Conveniently, it erased Baby!Henry in the process, which the writers might have felt would be too much of an issue? Personally I would have loved to see that unfold. I know I’ve discussed this before on this blog, probably more than once, but they could have kept SO MUCH of season 4 the way it was, as far as the Bridge was concerned, could have come up with a brand new Vilain to do all the “NEW UNIVERSE” stuff Bell/Jones tried to do, while our core characters had to deal with the consequences of everything that happened in season 3 (including Peter being a dad, WITHOUT trying to force a stupid ‘love triangle’ down our throats, thank you). It would have made for great, impactful family drama, because who are we kidding. Anyone who loves Fringe typically loves it because it is such an emotional, family drama. So yes, I will forever mourn the universe(s) we had season 1-3, and endlessly daydream about what could have been.
Now let me talk about Peter Bishop, it’s been a hot minute. Peter Bishop, who was hated basically the entire time the show was airing, and still now is strongly disliked by a lot of viewers, and honestly, I can’t blame them? I’ve had over a decade to analyze his character, have spent hundreds of hours writing stories from his POV, explaining his traumas & mistakes, have written giant meta posts about him back in the days to explain his behavior, so I’m not exactly objective, but I’m also very honest about how flawed his character is. Not (just) as a human being, which is normal because humans are flawed. I mean, he’s flawed in the way the writers used him/wrote him.
He’s probably the most inconsistent of all the characters. He’s the character who suffered the most from the ‘let’s make this person act out a certain way to make sure it fits our plot’ syndrome. I will never forgive the writers for how…clueless (for lack of a better word), they wrote Peter in early season 3 during the Switch. Yes, Peter was traumatized as a kid, yes he was in love, yes yes, I know all of that, I’ve written endlessly about it to explain his cluelessness so I know.
Still, Peter should have figured it out. Peter as we saw him in season 1 and 2, especially second half of season 2, would have figured out. He figured out BY HIMSELF that he was from another universe, ‘just’ from his dad and Olivia’s weird behaviors and the fact that he didn’t go ‘POOF’ on that bridge in 2x18. Peter went to another universe, he met Olivia’s alternate. He’d just spent weeks running from his life, trying to accept the fact that he was lied to all of his life. At best, he was suspicious, at worst, he was paranoid (as was mentioned in 2x20 in Northwest Passage). Literally 3 days after he gets to THAT OTHER UNIVERSE, and 3 hours after meeting Olivia’s doppelganger, Olivia ‘I hide from my own emotions’ Dunham comes tell him he belongs with her and smooches him, so he goes home. Yet the writers want me to believe Peter would not have still been reeling from EVERYTHING that just happened in his life, and not be a bit on edge?
Like, ‘damn, the woman I love and have come to know quite well these past 2 years is suddenly SO DIFFERENT? ALMOST LIKE SHE’S ANOTHER PERSON? A BIT LIKE THAT ALTERNATE VERSION OF HER I MET 48H AGO, THAT’S NOT A COINCIDENCE AT ALL’. But nope, Peter just accepts it, EVERY CHARACTER on that side just accepts it, when Lincoln and Charlie keep on looking at our Olivia like “Is this chick for real? WHAT IF THEY SWITCHED THEM?”
I’m forever frustrated. It just doesn’t feel believable to me, never has. It feels like the writers went “we want everyone, and especially Peter, to be clueless the entire time so we can write our drama the way we planned it.” And that’s a shame, honestly, because that whole damn arc is already so good as it is. But it would been even better if Peter HAD figured it out, if he’d kept on pretending for a bit, if HE’D conned Altlivia the way she conned him. Like I mentioned before, Olivia already went through so much trauma during the Switch, they could have found ways to make her miserable upon coming back, without Peter having slept with her alternate for a few weeks—and the knowledge that he didn’t realize what was going on. More daydreaming on my part about what could have been.
I could go on when it comes to the way they wrote Peter honestly. The whole “maybe Peter has feelings for the other Olivia” crap in the second half of s3, and “the universe that will survive depends on which Olivia Peter chooses”, excuse me??? Altlivia basically abused him??? She used him in so many ways, including sexually. She wasn’t even herself, she was pretending, playing him the whole time. HOW IS HE SUPPOSED TO HAVE FEELINGS EXCEPT A LOT OF SELF-LOATHING AND MORE UNRESOLVED TRAUMA?
Anyway, I think you get my vibe and why I’ll forever be sad/mad about this. As a writer & storyteller myself, one of my strengths and favorite aspects of writing is figuring out the characters’ motivations, what drives them, and how it makes them behave. Peter’s character is just…wobbly, during those arcs. He’s inconsistent from plotline to plotline, and it feels off to me. He’s a lot more true and consistent to how I understand him in season 4, but in season 3, he’s a hot mess, meant as a plot device more than anything else, and that makes me sad. Characters are what drive stories and shape the plot, not the other way around. So yeah, I don’t blame people for always having such strong opinions/dislikes where Peter is concerned.
I could come up with more things, but this is already long enough 😂 In case that wasn’t clear, those flaws don’t stop me from having the deepest love for this show. What it did well, it did extremely well, and even all those years later, I still cry rewatching it, because the emotions were real. They're still real.
Plus it gave me Olivia Dunham, so really, it wins just for that.
#fringe#fringe meta#kinda 😂#also called 'ambre is ranting at 13 year old plotlines that made no sense'#meta
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S3 ep 9 “Marionette”
The first ep after Olivia returns home has a cold open about a dude who steals someone’s heart. How very on point. That grisly corpse with the gaping hole in the chest where his heart should be.
This part of the Peter/Olivia arc is pain. Nothing but pain.
Warm fuzzies for Olivia and Broyles friendship.
“This friend you’re talking about, what was he like?”
“He wasn’t that unlike you. He was honorable, committed. He feared for his family, for their future.”
“You understand better than most the pain a lie can inflict.”
When Walter. Walter, of all people, is warning Peter with red flags about the emotional harm of not being honest, Peter should heed that. And I’m glad that Peter, of all people, who suffered from lies, does have every intention of telling Olivia everything. Even if it’ll hurt her, being lied to, having Peter hide that from her, would be far far worse. And Peter says he’ll tell her despite knowing it will change things between them. Because he’s rather do right by Olivia than hurt her further in order to keep her. Be a better man than your father.
Whole essays could be written on the way Peter looks at Olivia in this episode.
When Peter tells her, Olivia trying to be logical about it and telling him it’s fine, it’s understandable how that could happen but her eyes, her voice. It’s the exact moment Peter rips out her heart and she’s still alive, like that corpse in the cold open, but he took her heart.
Olivia acting like she’s fine and then breaking down when she’s alone. So very Olivia.
Astrid being sensitive to Olivia’s emotions and being reluctant to answer Olivia’s questions about how Peter was with the other Olivia, acknowledging to Olivia that it’s not fine, when Olivia again tries to say it’s fine, and trying to reassure Olivia because perceptive, observant Astrid knows. Peter’s feelings were about the real Olivia and that’s why he was so quick to latch onto the false one, because he wanted her, the real Olivia and his feelings are real. Astrid’s right, which isn’t going to make this hurt less for Olivia, but Astrid’s empathy and kindness shows. She cares about both of them, and being witness to this drama and to her friend being in so much pain because of her other friend must hurt. (Astrid appreciation blog, always).
This show sure does like its body horror symbolism. The puppet. That part specifically is about Walternate and how he moves his pawns on the board, how he uses altivia. Other parts of this…it’s a canvas to reflect on the damage to Peter and Olivia’s relationship.
The consequences of Walternate’s plans—one woman has her heart figuratively ripped out, the other used as a pawn (puppet).
Then the ep goes full Frankenstein. This show has LAYERS.
“When I looked into her eyes, it wasn’t Amanda.” This guy, twisted as he is, knew. And Peter didn’t. And that’s what Olivia can’t get over and move past. She can apply all the logic and be fair and say it’s understandable but Peter didn’t know. They were not as close as they thought they were and that’s something both Olivia and Peter have to face, for the relationship to have any chance to repair first, and then grow to what they both want.
Peter and Olivia at night in the garden of the big creepy mansion of a Dr. Frankenstein having a talk about feelings is peak Fringe.
“She wasn’t me. How could you not see that. She’s taken everything.”
#Fringe#Fringe rewatch#Fringe meta#i’m a Fringe blog again there is no escaping the Fringe rewatch feelings
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I've been watching fringe since last year and recently discovered your fringe meta. Your posts, especially those concerning Olivia's personality and character growth greatly deepen my understanding of the show and the character. I've found myself easy to be attracted to and identify with Olivia through the serie (especially during these moments when she is broken or subjected to self-doubt and self-destruction tendency) as if the character has some specific trait and your meta helps me figure out what that is specifically. I love polivia as well and your meta definitely grab the essence of their relationship. Thank you for your contribution to the fandom!
and thank you for this!!!!!!!
she's definitely one of the characters of all time and one that i'll always cherish
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Potential Ango backstory. Because I like to make connections that don't exist.
I received a tag under my last post about Ango...
I have been enabled.
What I said in that last post was that due to the disconnect between Ango's values and the values of the Special Division - in particular, their views on necessary sacrifice and the greater good - I found it odd for this to be Ango's career choice. So, I have this theory... it's really more headcanon than anything but basically, I wonder if Ango didn't choose to work there, but rather had no choice.
First off, Ango being a government agent before he joined the Mafia means that he was already one under the age of 19... which is. Well, far from uncommon in the BSD universe but... does the government itself really not have age restrictions on potential members? Ango would've been younger than 19 when he started working for the Special Division. He was 22 ish in Dark Era, first met Oda and Dazai two years earlier, and joined the Mafia one year before that. I know we like to joke that the preferred hiring age in BSD is like... 14-15, but for the Mafia, this makes sense - there's no hiring age there; most of them are or were kids with nowhere else to go. Fukuzawa hires minors who typically also have nowhere to go. Ango was really young when he joined the Special Division. Since they would, at least, have to follow some laws (I believe anyways), the circumstances of Ango's joining were probably not the usual.
Here's another weird bit: the government sent a 19 year old spy to infiltrate the Mafia, one who was too low-ranked to have any say in decisions (he had no say in their sending in of Shibusawa, for instance). That's... weird, on it's own. He had no influence but they felt certain the man wouldn't betray them or get caught? That's a lot of faith to place in him. Now, granted, he's a very reliable person and his ability is absolutely the reason he was selected - but it's still strange.
You might be thinking, okay, but what about his replacement? Tachihara was sent in after Ango so the government could keep monitoring the mafia's activities, and he was a young, new recruit. Yes, that's true but see, here's the thing: Tachihara's nature as a Hunting Dog means the government has a guaranteed hold on him - Teruko mentions that the Hunting Dogs need to undergo monthly surgeries to maintain their bodies after their enhancements. I see no reason Tachihara wouldn't have had to do the same. So, in my mind, that goes to show that they needed some kind of hold on Ango too, right? Wouldn't you want some kind of insurance on someone so presumably new?
I'm going to cut away from this for a moment so I can point out a passage from Dark Era where Oda finds how Ango (allegedly) joined the Mafia:
The gist of it was: Ango was a hacker -> he helped a gang steal money -> the money was stolen from a Mafia front company -> Ango was on the run for several months before the Mafia caught him -> Ango's manipulation of the trackers' information was so impressive to Mori that he invited Ango to join the Mafia
Obviously, this is a cover story. But at the surface it kind of has to be true, otherwise the Mafia would know. So, it was set up for Ango to help steal that money by the government. Why this particular story though? Well, they say the best lies are often rooted in truth. Before he joined the Division, I suggest that Ango really was a hacker and seller of information. (Just fyi, his real life author inspiration was a bit of a delinquent so... make of that what you will.)
Now this next part is a mess because we still don't know how all the pieces fit together.
Remember that the Special Division, and by extension the government, are considered so incredibly powerful that they could destroy the Mafia. From Dark Era:
That legal document appears to be the only thing that keeps ability users reasonably safe. Atsushi was being tracked as the "rampaging tiger" and had nowhere else to go. What about people like Yosano or Chuuya, associated with military research? Even Kenji - he was hired after he moved a mountain out of grief. It appears that the permit is a necessary protection to those ability users who reveal they are ability users publicly.
In Gaiden, Tsujimura explains that the Division also continuously monitors the activities of ability users. Essentially, in addition to the legal protection the permits provide, they also seem to make the Division's job of keeping track of all ability users, what they're using their abilities for, and how dangerous the abilities are, much easier. We also know that if an ability user proves too great of a threat to the general public, the Special Division can and will eliminate targets unless the target proves especially useful (ex. Ayatsuji).
Ok why am I going over all this? I'm just trying to make it clear how incredibly powerful the Division is. But what I also want to denote is that they are focused primarily on the greater good and will justify sacrifice of individuals (which contradicts Ango's beliefs directly), and they also take orders still from higher ups in the government (and the government in bsd is... a bit shifty if you ask me).
And about Ango: his values lie in life and an appreciation for it. He prioritizes memory and records, especially of those who have passed. He has many regrets and is, at heart, a kind person. However, he also has the capacity to do what "needs to be done", seems particularly vengeful and angry with Sigma for Taneda's stabbing, and was ready to shoot Atsushi when he collapsed after the Sky Casino arc. He also went from making deliberate stubborn efforts to create records of the dead, to being part of the cover up for a group of disgraced soldiers and one of his closest friends. He does things because he thinks no one else can do them - so this means it is his obligation.
So, finally, here's my deranged conspiracy: I think Ango was a hacker in his teenage years, and I think he always had the intention of preserving life in some way. Perhaps he attempted to make information about the war, or something to do with ability users, public. Whatever he found, he got in serious trouble, whether with a criminal organization, or with the government itself, I'm not clear on. Ango needed to join the Division for protection, and perhaps it was Taneda's idea to invite him, seeing that his ability would be very useful - that would explain the loyalty. It's also possible that Ango's actions resulted in a loss of life, and so he no longer trusts himself, which is why he is constantly torn between opposing values. I wonder if it was explained to Ango by the people in charge why certain information had to be withheld from the public, in such a way that he felt guilty for what he'd done - maybe that's why he's so diligent. It would be tragic if guilt turned out to have always been the motivator for his character and if he stands with the Division despite his offset values because he really does think they know how to better help people than his instinctive response ever could. While I'm sure the Division was confident in Ango's loyalty (one of his dislikes is written as betrayal for goodness sake), they also had a hold on him due to the nature of his ability. He is a walking store of classified information, which we are told repeatedly in Dark Era makes him a prime target. This means that nowhere is safe for him unless he stays with the Division. There is no guarantee that the government itself wouldn't also consider him a liability if he were to suddenly quit. In summary, Ango's joining of the Division was not a free choice, and while he likely feels grateful to people like Taneda for that chance - he also cannot leave.
Regardless of whether or not you all think I am wholly deranged now, there is definitely something to Ango we're not privy to yet. Here's some extra stuff on Ango to chew on:
He had the experience once of taking in so much information he passed out while his brain tried to process it (much like Atsushi did after Sigma transfers the information to him about the Page)
He had some run-in with Chuuya which apparently led to Chuuya owing him for something?
He seems to have been more comfortable defying expectations in the Mafia than he ever was in the Division
Thus concludes my Ango theory.
Source? Just trust me bro.
#i also like this because it heightens chuuya-ango parallels#and we still have yet to find out how they're connected so. you know. fun!#also i think it would be absolutely horrible (read: very good) if the info ango found was actually connected to the seventh agency#idk seems weird it would be name dropped by dostoevsky if it had nothing to do with ango#anyways i am so sorry if you read all this it's an absolute mess#worst meta i've done by far but i just can't look at it anymore#bsd#bsd meta#bsd ango#storyrambles#btw welcome to the fringe of my number one bsd conspiracy theory - the government's secret agency will turn out to be the final villains#ok. take it just take it i can't anymore
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Galaxy brain take here: I think in many ways, what “Fun and Games” makes very clear is that Saul Goodman’s closest parallel and mirror is actually Gus Fring.
Both men live their lives behind a facade. Saul isn’t Jimmy, and the friendly chicken man isn’t Gus. They exist behind so deep an obfuscation that it’s consumed them and left both with nothing ‘real’. And the question is why do they do that to themselves? With Gus, we learned all the way back in Breaking Bad that he did it because he lost Max. And now we’ve learned Jimmy did it because he lost Kim.
The more I think about it, the more I’ve become convinced that Jimmy views the legal community the same way Gus views the cartel. He despises it. Jimmy’s resentment of Chuck and the massive chip on his shoulder (coupled with festering insecurity) makes him want to break the precious law his brother held so dear. Whether consciously on Jimmy’s part or not (I’m sure it’s partly unconsciously), Saul Goodman is a tool he uses to undermine, humiliate, and chip away at the law, both in general and as a profession, every day. And that sounds a lot like Gus, doesn’t it? Gus, who wants nothing more than to eradicate the cartel that took his soulmate away, so he works for them to corrode it from within.
in the final shot of the episode, Jimmy's coffee cup said "World's greatest lawyer", which simply must be a dark joke on the fact that the "2nd greatest" on the old yellow travel mug no longer applies. Because Kim isn't a lawyer anymore. And now that the only bright spot of the legal world (from his perspective) has removed herself from it, there's no more reason to hold back from burning it to the ground.
The bus-bench lawyer and the chicken man are both compelled to live the rest of their lives behind a mask because they viewed their partners as the only 'real' things about them, and those partners are gone now.
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If Walter White has the death note does Jessie survive breaking bad? Does anyone?!
...
No.
Let's break this down though.
Let's say Walter White gets the notebook at the beginning of the series before he's fully embraced the dark side. He has a bizarre introduction to Ryuk, wonders if the cancer has already spread to his brain, and chooses to actively ignore it.
Then Crazy Eight happens.
That notebook starts to look very tempting. If Walter lets Crazy Eight live, then he'll murder him and his family. Walter knows this, but he also really really really doesn't want to kill a man. Even if, with this notebook, if it actually works, then Walter can engineer his death in such a way that it will be painless and won't trace back to Walter.
I imagine he doesn't do it then, has to kill Crazy Eight by hand as in canon, and bitterly regrets not using it as he a) had to murder a man by hand anyway b) the body cleanup is a cluster fuck.
(Ryuk also mercilessly points this out to Walter, though he's loving the fucking meth lab thing Walter has going on, "You could make this a TV show")
Then comes Tuco.
This time, Walter gives it a try.
Tuco is filled with the sudden need to snort a lot of meth, a lot, a lot more than usual, and Hector watches helpless as Tuco dies of a drug overdose. (Oh, don't worry, he still hates Walter White and thinks he's a rat, but it's not the shootout and attempted poisoning we got in canon and it's clearly Tuco having fallen prey to his addiction and something that was, perhaps, a long time coming.)
Jesse likely calls 911 in order to get the cops out to this location to find Hector and the body but the pair vamoose, with Hector unwilling to talk to the police about the odd kidnapping.
(Hank, as a result, is not promoted as he doesn't gun down Tuco. He doesn't have his brief foray into El Paso and is not quite as obsessive over Heisenberg in the initial aftermath/confrontation.
He also, later, will not be attacked by the cousins and paralyzed.
Hank doesn't realize he's literally dodged bullets.)
Walter at first wonders, again, if the cancer has gone to his brain but he's not losing time, his moods are (relatively) stable, and there's no inconsistencies. The death god, grim reaper, whatever the fuck it is is real, and Walter has a weapon he can use to murder if he has a name and a face.
Walter makes a point of breaking into Hank's office under false pretexts and memorizing the names and faces of everyone in the drug business who Walter may cross paths with next.
When Badger is arrested, he hangs himself in prison. Jesse is appalled and horrified, grieving, and unable to understand why someone as cheerful as Badger would do this.
"Ah, well, prison is rough," Walter consoles him.
However, what Walter doesn't realize is that this prevents him from getting into business with Saul, who had the means to get him connected with Gus.
He and Jesse are small fries again trying to sell their own shit with no middle management.
Walter tries to get Jessie's friends involved as he did in canon. Jesse once again notes this is an awful idea and that they are not the kind of people who can do this kind of operation. More, the people who normally do this sort of thing are fucking dead as Walter killed Crazy Eight and Tuco snorted himself to death.
Not to mention, of course, that it's not their territory and if they try they will all be murdered.
As usual, Walter doesn't care. They're still in shock over Badger, grieving over it, but are interested in both the money and the meth.
As before, this goes bad, and we'll say Combo gets killed again. Poor, poor, Combo.
Well, Walt can't stand for this and neither can Jessie. Walt asks if Jessie can find out who it was, does he have photos? Walter needs names and faces here.
Jessie figures Walter's going to try to get Hank to bust them and tries to talk him out of it: you can't do that Walter, otherwise everyone will kill you.
Eventually, as usual, Walter's able to get the names through Jessie who does some snooping. It's highly likely that there's some record (as these were low level under Gus) and Walter's seen them through Hank's files.
Well, they're about to have a very bad day.
Walter flagrantly kills them in such a way to make it look like deliberate murder/revenge. He wants their people to know that Heisenberg is responsible and that he follows up on threats. ("I am the danger" - Walter White)
Unfortunately, this probably goes awry, as Walter hasn't been spending his time learning the million rules that come with the Death Note. I can see Walter trying to get the pair to make their own ricin, ingest it, then spraypainting "Heisenberg" on a wall or something. However, the Death Note can't impart knowledge that the victim doesn't already have: they can't make ricin if they don't know how.
They die of heart attacks.
Walter throws a bitch fit of bitch fits as now his cool murder is ruined and everyone just thinks they had fucking heart conditions.
I imagine Walter, upon figuring out which cartel they belong to, tries again with other cartel members, now knowing the rules a little better to send the message.
Mike and Gus are now very aware that someone's whacking off their guys and the Salamancas.
Hank, who initially thought this was great and threw a party in the office at all the dead cartel members, is starting to get a little weirded out.
First, Crazy Eight disappears. Then Tuco dies of a drug overdose. Then all these street thugs just die one after the other in murders with no forensic evidence.
This, combined with the blue meth, that's still on the streets despite all the deaths: there's a new king pin and it's looking like, somehow, he's murdering off all competition.
This leaves Hank about where he was in canon: he really really really wants to catch this fucker Heisenberg (while Walter is smugly gloating thinking how cool he is and wanting to expand further).
Gus, meanwhile, is getting serious in a way that he didn't have to in canon: they have to find out who this Heisenberg is. Walter left enough clues that someone like Gus, who is a master of looking not like a kingpin, will be easily able to find him especially through Mike who is hired to look into exactly this sort of thing.
I imagine they wait and watch for a long time, as Walter's operation is, frankly, pathetic. He only has a few young men under his thumb, two of them have died already, his partner is a drug addict, and he appears to have no muscle. How could this man kill anyone? While it would be safer to get rid of him entirely, learning how he's doing it is of vital importance.
Mike gets to break into the house and finds (along with cash hidden in the walls) a strange black notebook, filled with the names of all their people along with Tuco, and a death clown who's just fucking loving this.
Mike has a really strange day but decides that he's taking the hallucination notebook into the lab.
And Walter, of course, gets to freak out that his murder weapon was stolen from under his nose and gets told by Ryuk that, unless he gets it back soon, he's going to lose ownership of it and lose all his memories of it.
Walter, in his panic, probably does something exceedingly violent and stupid and likely dies because of it as he has no idea who took it.
#breaking bad#death note#breaking bad meta#breaking bad headcanon#walter white#anti walter white#jesse pinkman#gus fring#meta#headcanon#opinion
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What do you think about Skyler's and Walt's relationship dynamic when they first got together? It is so fascinating to me how much their dynamic must have changed over the years. Skyler got together with a significantly older man with a so far very promising career in chemistry. When they bought their house Walt is clearly still ambitious, driven and confident. Being the one in charge, leading and managing everything while her husband is checked out and going through life on autopilot is something I don't see a young Skyler wanting or expecting from her relationship with Walt.
Okay so!! I read a post awhile back that I cannot find now (pls somebody comment w the link if you find it) ab how the reason we all hate Walter’s gnarled old raisin guts even as we still find ourselves perfectly capable of and even eager to empathize with Gus and Mike, who have committed similarly heinous crimes, is bc Walter is a hypocrite who consistently screws over the people he claims to love and prioritize above all else, whereas Gus and Mike at least do right by the few people they allow into their inner circles. I think this is absolutely correct, but at least for me, this is only half of the reason I hate Walter. The other reason is that Walter doesn’t operate like a drug lord or a hitman in terms of evildoing, by which I mean; he operates like a domestic abuser or a sexual predator. Both Gus and Mike at points attribute their distaste for Walter to his “unprofessionalism” because while both of them attempt to at least maintain the facade of detachment largely preferred by the criminal underworld, Mike by (trying to) keep his personal life and the people in it completely removed from his criminal dealings, and Gus by channeling all of his capacity for emotion into a person who has already passed, Walter has no such reservations. The emotionality that supposedly divides him from the rest of the criminal underworld is ironically what makes him more evil than his mercenary counterparts, because it’s entirely a front and is in reality just him leeching off the emotions of others. Walter will not hesitate to get personal, Walter will not hesitate to bring up the existence of his family to a dangerous kingpin if it means he gets to play Manly Provider, Walter will not hesitate to groom a former student to be his personalized emotional punching bag. More so than any unfeeling pragmatist criminal, Walter has no scruples.
(Hasn’t even mentioned Skyler yet)
I don’t really have a problem with age gaps as a rule if it’s between two consenting adults over the age of 21 (my parents have an age gap similar to Skyler and Walt’s, they met when my mom was in her mid-twenties and my dad his mid-thirties) but if someone makes a habit of courting people younger than them, it’s typically indicative of a predatory nature, regardless of whether the younger parties are of age. Their partners don’t just happen to be younger than them; they are deliberately surrounding themselves with people they can exert power over more easily, people who are less established and will rely on them more financially and emotionally. And while I don’t think Skyler was ever as naïve as Jesse, I do think she took Walter’s persona of choice at face value much as Jesse did. Walter presented himself to her as an ambitious if mild-mannered chemistry genius (he was definitely more sure of himself as a young adult, but is implied to have always been something of a square), and if anything I think his nerdiness appealed to her because she equated academic intelligence with emotional intelligence, and in those early years, he gave her no reason not to. She thought he was a genius, but more importantly, she thought he was kind. She didn’t sign up for a complacent, preoccupied husband working on a teacher’s salary, just as she didn’t sign up for a son with cerebral palsy or being pregnant well into her late thirties. But at the beginning of the series, she’s stressed, yeah, but she’s also happy. And all the Reddit incels took that as her either relishing being the head of house or being indifferent to her husband’s unhappiness, but I think she attributed his passivity to contentment. Because her family was enough for her, Walt as he was was enough for her. And I think the real heartbreak stemmed not from realizing Walter wasn’t the man that she married; she knew that already. But from realizing that she and the life that they had built together weren’t enough for him.
#god this reply is loooong#long as the strap i used on your mom last night eyoo#anyways#breaking bad meta#brba#skyler white#mike ehrmantraut#gus fring#jesse pinkman#anti walter white#walter white hate blog#long post#abuse tw
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thinking about gustavo and max
I've been wanting to write a story for Gustavo Fring and Max Arciniega for soooo long, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the when/how/where/what of it...but I just love them so much and want to explore their relationship and history.
I actually really love that canonically we know very little about Gustavo. He is so menacing, especially because we know so little about him. He's a ghost--Hank even reveals that there's no paper trail of him before he emigrated to Mexico. And sure, that could partially be due to bad record keeping during the turbulent time in Chile of Allende being deposed by Pinochet and the unrest and terror of the Pinochet regime. But...I don't think Hank believes that's the only reason; it's far more likely that Gustavo has changed his identity and is fleeing Chile because he is possibly a war criminal, or implicated somehow in Pinochet's crimes. Hector Salamanca mockingly refers to him as "El gran general" when on the phone in the flash back of Marco and Leonel as boys. So presumably Gustavo was a general in Pinochet's army? In which case, he was most likely involved in kidnapping and torturing leftists and supporters of the Allende regime. Which is terrifying to consider.
But we also know that he grew up very poor. And at some point, generated enough wealth to pay Max's way through his education at the university of Santiago. A prestigious military career would be one way to achieve that type of upward mobility. It's hard to know how ruthless Gustavo was before Max's death turned him into the shell of a man whose only motivation is revenge that we meet in canon. But it's likely that he was willing to get his hands dirty as a soldier in order to climb his way up out of poverty. We know enough about him to know that he had a cruel streak even as a child (the coati story) and that he was patient and calculating, even then. So I can imagine that, to him, the ends would justify the means in terms of being part of an awful dictatorship if it guaranteed his advancement and wealth and security for his loved ones.
I just love imagining him when he was younger and less hardened by the world and the loss of Max. It's fun to imagine them happy together and optimistic on their journey to Mexico, before tragedy strikes.
Gustavo does some truly truly awful and reprehensible things (callously sacrificing Nacho and using children in his drug operation to name a few!) that go beyond the scope and necessity of his revenge plot against the Salamancas and the cartel at large. I think by the point we meet him in canon, he's cut out any remaining scraps of "humanity" and kindness and made himself into a cold revenge machine, willing to accept any collateral damage that may occur as a result. I think even he is probably aware that Max would likely hate this thing he's become. But he can't stop; he's invested too much into it, and his hatred and thirst for revenge is the only thing that motivates him to keep breathing.
Which is why his scene with David in Better Call Saul is so devastating! We get a little glimpse there of a softer side of him, and maybe a different path he could have gone down. Maybe even a little echo of the type of happiness and warmth he had in his life with Max.
Ugghhh. They break my heart!!
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Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad masterdocs
each episode mapped out in a googledoc for all those Normal about the gilliverse
Better Call Saul
Breaking Bad
#always a work in progress#better call saul#breaking bad#jimmy mcgill#kim wexler#chuck mcgill#howard hamlin#mike ehrmantraut#gus fring#walter white#jesse pinkman#skyler white#hank schrader#marie schrader#saul goodman#vince gilligan#peter gould#thomas schnauz#bcs meta#nacho varga#lalo salamanca
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kim literally tells gus her husband talked lalo out of sending him so she could get out of there, and people still think jimmy was throwing her under the bus. like. wtf are you even watching
#i hate people#go watch something else#bcs#bcs s6 spoilers#better call saul#kim wexler#jimmy mcgill#gus fring#lalo salamanca#mcwexler#meta
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It's interesting that it seems more proper to name P/0 child after Elizabeth than after Olivia's mother.(Elizabeth is a beautifully tragic name in the show and your fic,though.) Peter and Olivia's relationships with their own mothers are both complex but totally different. How do you understand their mother issues?
Thank you for your lovely question. I have so many feelings regarding Peter & Olivia and their relationships with their mothers. That’s a topic I’ve explored a few times in stories through the years; as someone who’s had a rather rocky relationship with my mother (to put it mildly), I know my perspective on this to be very biased, but to me, that’s the beauty of an emotionally intelligent show like Fringe. They show us just enough to get a feel of how various character dynamics are/were, all the while letting us imagine the rest.
I think it’s harder to know how Olivia’s relationship with her mother might have been, because we saw a lot less of Marylin that we did Elizabeth, and the Marylin we did see was exclusively Altlivia’s mom, who from what we know had quite a different life from Olivia’s mother. I know in this case, I’m definitely projecting my own experience. My mom also got into a relationship with someone abusive who made our lives hell for a few years, and the fallouts are extensive, long after that person is gone.
That’s why I always pictured Olivia’s childhood and relationship with her mother to be quite sad, unfortunately, since her father probably died when she was very young, then there was the abusive step dad, who she ended up shooting, only for him to traumatize her even further by sending her all those birthday cards, and then her mother dies when she was just fourteen—and I doubt those five years between the shooting and her death were happy years. But Olivia would have loved her mother no matter what, as shown on the show when she got to meet her mom’s alternate in the other universe, and the emotion of it literally broke her mind and got the other memories working.
Olivia felt strongly enough that it was her JOB to defend her mother to shoot a grown man with a gun when she was nine. That tells you so much about Olivia’s core personality (and trauma, did I mention trauma?)
Like I said, that topic is very personal to me and I have a hard time ever being objective about it, but it’s also important because of how I imagine Olivia as a mother with Etta. And that’s why I’ve always been so pained by people who misunderstand the things Olivia says about it in season 5, about her feeling like she was too ‘at odd’ and basically too messed up to deserve her little girl, and that her worrying so much instead of just appreciating having her led to them losing Etta, like a punishment.
I’m writing this right now and I don’t understand how people can misinterpret it enough to say things like “Olivia probably was cold and distant with Etta.” Like, over my DEAD BODY. She’s a traumatized human who lost her mother when she was still just a kid herself. That doesn’t mean she’s not capable of love or of being nurturing, it mostly means she probably worried herself sick over every thing and convinced herself that she was doomed to be terrible at it.
Ugh. I’m gonna need a drink before I can continue this.
ANYWAY. Peter and Elizabeth hahahaha
I think his relationship with his mom was pretty tragic and heartbreaking, too. I think that he would have loved his mother very, very much, just like Olivia loved hers, but I also think the Elizabeth he grew up with never recovered from losing her son and having to brainwash this version of Peter into thinking he was her child. We know she ended up committing suicide when he was nineteen, and from what we saw in 3x15 ‘Subject 13’, she struggled a lot with the whole fucking mess that was their life—and that was before Walter lost pieces of his brain and went insane. Now whether Elizabeth was struggling with alcoholism is up to interpretation. My reasoning has always been that the show wouldn’t have shown us Elizabeth drinking in that episode if it wasn’t meant to imply she ended up doing that a lot, so that tends to be my headcanon. Even without the possible alcoholism, I think we’re supposed to deduce from everything Peter says that she suffered from depression.
Either way, that poor man has had a SHIT childhood and adolescence. It sucks to grow up with a parent who suffers like this, it makes you feel responsible for them while also feeling absolutely helpless because you can’t really help, and also very angry because all of it is shit, honestly. In the context of the show, I can only imagine how torn and guilty Peter felt about his mother’s suicide, which happened after he left her. And that had to become that much worse after he learned the truth about his origins and realized he was basically ‘responsible’ for his mother’s ongoing misery.
Soooooo yeah. One of the things I love about Peter and Olivia is that I think they get that about each other, implicitly. Shit childhood/adolescence just shape you differently, and you can definitely tell when you meet other people who’ve had ‘similar’ experiences (can I say trauma again?) It definitely make them particularly suited for each other, as life partners and as parents.
#if you're looking for me i'll be in a corner crying over my fringe feels#i love them all so much ok#my beautiful show full of broken lovely people#Olivia Dunham#Peter Bishop#Elizabeth Bishop#Marylin Dunham#tw: sui mention#tw: suidice#fringe meta#meta#mother issues#i have them#and so do they
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Nina and Walter and Belly. Walter’s grief for Belly and the part of his brain he lost, that Belly took from him, Nina comforting Walter that it wasn’t just his intellect, it was his boundless imagination, that made him unique. (If they ever do a Fringe spinoff, a prequel about young Nina and William and Walter seems to be just…hanging there, waiting to be plucked from the story tree).
I was so so happy Peter was being completely honest with Olivia. Atta boy!!!
AND THEN WILLIAM BELL.
This show. Is utterly unhinged.
And Anna Torv is a genius. She hits it out of the park with every curveball they asked of her.
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The other day I was watching Persons of Interest (dumb as fuck show btw but middle school me probably wouldve been interested in it). The episode with Otto Sanchez. Obviously. But Seamus O'Reily's actor was also there in that episode and I had to laugh because you can pick literally any side character in Oz and go to their filmography and if the project came out after Oz started, there will be some kind of cast or crew connection. It's so networking......... Networking is so important. Wish I'd networked in college. Anyway.... (walks into the mist)
#TWO Madonna connections in Oz.... (Kenmin and Martinez). I guess that was just the 90s tho.#text#otto sanchez was also in a episode of fringe......#he was the really weird guy who bred racing pigeons 😭💖#there's a lot of weird little indie movies that oz cast did but unfortunately i'd have to buy them to watch them#like a physical copy probably#and i do not have the disposable income to be buying old vhs tapes rn (if they're even actually in stock)#at least with my last show all the terrible movies were direct to streaming 😔#kirk + meany actors did some meta sundance movie that i'm sort of like. haha. sundance. target demo.#edit: I PICKED A MOVIE AT RANDOM TODAY AND HILL AND MERSHAH ARE IN IT
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The Professional and Personal Passions
Thinking about how late S4 Jesse gained the respect of Gus and Mike and had sort of resigned himself to being a "professional" criminal in their style—for the money, and with a degree of cold, matter-of-fact dispassion. He's hurt by the breakdown of his relationship with Mr. White (in the way someone would be about a bad breakup) so he's clearly not interested in that kind of deeply felt, personal relationship in his "criminal" life—or at least he's convinced himself that he doesn't want it anymore.
(Sidenote: I seriously question how long that Jesse would have enjoyed cooking for Gus's organization without Walt. Mike might be a marginally better 'father figure' in the sense of not having a vampiric need for Jesse, but the co-dependence runs both ways and I tend to think the intense need Mr. White has for him was a lot of the appeal in the first place. I could see being a criminal becoming a rote, routine job without the intense if unhealthy emotional connection Walt provides—rather like Walt growing bored of working with Gale after a couple weeks. That coupled with the violence necessary in the drug business, and I'm thinking Jesse would be disillusioned and looking for a way out to get a new start with Andrea and Brock not long into the arrangement. But I digress.)
Jesse thinks he can be content with Gus's respect and Mike's grudging, gruff affection. He doesn't have any illusions about his relationship with Gus Fring—it's for mutual benefit, there's no love here. He's mature about this.
...And Walt took one look at that and said, "I'm sorry, Jesse, there is nothing 'professional' about how we do crime in this family, everything has to be a deeply personal psycho-drama and you're a central player in mine" and then proceeded to poison Jesse's girlfriend's son and convince him Gus had done it as a bid to goad Jesse into killing his former partner when in fact the exact opposite was true. He couldn't just ask Jesse nicely, he had to "re-bond" them by attacking Jesse at the most personal level imaginable and framing Gus for it, while simultaneously making this personal attack about their relationship and how mean ol' no fun business only Fring came in and messed it up.
And it...works. Fairly easily, to the point where one wonders if Jesse is almost......looking for an excuse to go back to Walt.....
I mean, this comparatively insane behavior is the final straw which implodes their partnership in the end, but you can tell there's a part of Jesse that also is ultimately more comfortable with having a deeply messy ride or die murder partner over a crime boss who just wants you to do your job. Eff professionalism, we die like men!
#jesse pinkman#walter white#breaking bad#breaking bad meta#brba#gustavo fring#mike ehrmantraut#jesse and walt were both in it for the drama#hot take jesse stealing meth from the lab was subconsciously motivated by trying to get walt's attention#he's acting out because that's the only way he knows how to get dad to pay attention to him#they really are the worst criminals which makes them accidentally forming the greatest meth operation in us history more hilarious
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"Walter White shows we need to have Universal Healthcare."
No actually.
Walter White:
- Hates ‘handouts'
- Believes he deserves, and will get, a fortune
- Feels both superior and put upon
- Expects riches but will not share
- Individualist but desire to control those weaker than him.
- Extremely entitled
- Never his fault, Always someone elses
- Ignores his own interest due to ego.
Walter White is a reflection of those aspects of the American Psyche that reject good things out of a misplaced 'temporaily impovrished millionaire' mindset. The type of voter who opposes things that will benefit him because 'the wrong people' might also benefit. The type of white man who will follow a rich man into hell if he has his ego stroked.
Walter White is why we don’t already have Universal Healthcare.
#breaking bad#better caul saul#walter white#breaking bad walter white#meth#bcs#gustavo fring#politics#healthcare#universal healthcare#breaking bad gus#gus fring#toxic masculinity#toxic whiteness#meta#gilliganverse
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Ok, since some bold breaking bad fan asked you about Walt/Jesse, let me be another bold breaking bad fan asking you about Gus/Mike! I know here in Muffin’s place ships (ideas) got dunked like Titanic to a iceberg but let’s see if this one float!
Nope.
Gus is clearly canonically gay, no questions asked here, and we know he mixed business with pleasure in the past. However, Mike doesn't seem to be his type and more it would go against the way Gus operates by the time he meets Mike in canon. Gus wants someone efficient, competent, who he can rely on, and who will not bring attention to him and his operation.
Gus lives his life to attract as little notice as possible, he will have no lovers, he will not make Mike anything more than an employee who he would have normal employee interactions with to the outside world.
Gus would never ever go for it and if Mike was interested, he'd find a bullet in his head for being a liability.
As for Mike, he respects Gus and how he operates, but Gus is dirty same as Mike is. Mike can work with dirty people, he knows them, he's one of them, but it's not the people he likes. Mike adores his son, who was the only clean cop in a dirty district and died because of it. His son's wife who he places on a pedestal (and perhaps isn't as clean/good as he thinks she is) and above all his granddaughter who has nothing to do with this.
Mike himself doesn't seek companionship beyond his family, he knows too much, is too dirty, and it'd just put the person in danger and he himself wouldn't be able to trust them. Getting involved with his crime boss, especially, would be just stupid and would get him killed. Mike ain't doing that ever.
TL;DR
Mike and Gus work well as business partners because they don't want this from each other.
#breaking bad#breaking bad meta#breaking bad shipping#breaking bad headcanon#mike ehrmantraut#gustavo fring#mike/gus#anti mike/gus#meta#headcanon#opinion#shipping
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