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jokeroutsubs · 5 months

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ENG translation: "We are advocates of the fact that it is possible to create in our language"

An interview with Bojan Cvjetićanin and Kris Guštin in Slovenian magazine Reporter Magazin, originally published December 2023

Original article written by Katarina Keček for Reporter Magazin; photos by Primož Lavre and Urša Premik; English translation by @kurooscoffee and another Joker Out Subs member, proofread by IG GBoleyn123.

Also available in audio version on Spotify, read by IG GBoleyn123:

If you repost quotes from the interview, please link back to this post!

After a fantastic recent concert season with the currently most popular Slovenian music group Joker Out, who have already broken all boundaries at home, the boys are now ready to conquer the world's music stages. European first, said the band's two members, guitarist Kris Guštin and singer Bojan Cvjetićanin, modestly, when we met in their rehearsal room, "Then we'll think ahead." A few days after our conversation, Joker Out embarked on a new tour, which will include 13 European countries, including France, Belgium and Italy. Among others, they will be playing at some of the world's most iconic venues, such as the O2 Shepherd's Bush Empire in London and the Academy 2 in Manchester. A musical success that has no comparison here.

I'm sure you have given hundreds of interviews over the years? How do you cope with them?

Kris: If the questions are good, the interview is also good.

Bojan: During Eurovision we had about 40 interviews a day. Let's say two of them were a little different in terms of questions.

What kind of questions don't you like?

Both: Where did our name come from? When was the band formed? The kind of thing that everybody can find on Google.

Eurovision was a big breakthrough for you abroad, but you also said that you would not do a competition like that again.

Kris: We didn't say that.

Bojan: We have another one in January. We're playing at a festival in the Netherlands, it's a kind of show where you present yourself. It's a competition in a sense, but it's not very specific like Eurovision.

But these music competitions can't be real competitions. They are about the taste of the listener, just as art is about the taste of the observer. How are you going to evaluate a quality, a song?

Bojan: Eurovision is a really interesting experience and has a very specific concept. It's a three-minute spectacle contest, there are tangible standards, but on the other hand there are not. This spectacle may be different from what any of us would think of as "spectacle", let's say a lot of fire, explosions, and fireworks, but if the story is properly told in the flood of all these fires and explosions, just one deep silence can make the performance spectacular. For us, the competition was more about whether or not we would make that breakthrough. A contest against ourselves.

When you were at Eurovision, did you have in mind the country you were representing, or did you, first and foremost, see yourself in this contest? As an opportunity for the group to present itself?

Bojan: It was absolutely important for us to sing in Slovenian at this festival because we are advocates and representatives of the fact that it is possible to create in our language and that it is right to create in our language. It's right to speak it and it's right for the language to develop. The younger generations of Slovenians are also gaining an appreciation for the Slovenian language and an understanding of what it can be used for. The aim was to show ourselves. In the end, it is true that a country wins, let's say Sweden won, or Finland won, but the most important thing for us was that when someone says, "Do you remember Slovenia in 2023?" that it will be a positive image and a positive memory. We managed to do that, which is a big enough victory as far as we are concerned. At the same time, we did everything we could to represent ourselves and Slovenia in the best possible way.

Despite all this, we welcomed you home with great joy, we did not blame you for your result in the competition, because we saw that you gave your all.

Bojan: I was honestly happy to see the positive reaction, even though objectively speaking we had a pretty poor placement.

Kris: After a long time, us Eurovision performers also had the same kind of support of the nation at home that our athletes have.

It's interesting that you hold on to the Slovenian language so lovingly and don't give in to the prejudices that claim that Slovenian is not a poetic and melodic language. You write songs in various languages, but mostly in Slovenian.

Bojan: For me, it is most natural to write songs in Slovenian. My thought process, during my subconscious existence, is in the Slovenian language.

Your parents are not of Slovenian nationality, they both came from Bosnia during the war in 1991, with the last Unprofor convoy. Kris's mother is also Dutch, and you both love the Slovenian language.

Kris: My mother moved to Slovenia before Slovenia joined the EU and, as she explained to me, it was very difficult for her at that time too. All the bureaucratic stuff dragged on, just like it would for someone who came from Bosnia.

Bojan: I never had any problems with my parents being from Bosnia. I was at a school where there were quite a lot of children who had parents from the former Yugoslavia and we had no problems with that. I coped with the Slovenian language quite well from a very young age. However, this does not change the fact that the living conditions of many children at our school were of a lower standard. I don't know what was going on in their homes, because I know that for many it was not so rosy at home, but we children did not feel any revolt or hatred from our classmates at that time.

Your parents are both doctors, and they have made a new home in Slovenia. Do you still go to Bosnia?

Bojan: Yes, more and more often. I feel very Slovenian, I think and speak in this language, but on the other hand I am immensely proud of my roots and I also feel Bosnian, Serbian, at my core, and it seems to me that the fans from the former Yugoslav countries have now taken us very much as their own because of that.

You had very successful concerts in Zagreb and Belgrade. Interestingly, the visitors knew all your songs by heart, and what's more, they sang them with you in Slovenian. We haven't been used to that since the days of Lačni Franz* and Videoseks.*

*(The only two groups prior to Joker Out who succeeded in ex-Yugoslavia region enough to have the audience sing their songs in Slovenian)

Kris: Isn't it interesting that we find it bizarre that Serbs are singing in Slovenian, because before it was always the other way around?

Bojan: I also never understood before that Croatians or Serbs didn't understand us. As in, is the difference in languages really so big that you don't understand us? We can understand you. The fact is that Slovenians have been in contact with the Serbo-Croatian language in one way or another since we were very young, we all go to the seaside in Croatia, and we also listen to music from those parts en masse.

But the young people of your generation speak to the locals on the Croatian coast in English because they no longer understand their language.

Both: Yes, that's also true.

How come these Balkan languages don't cause you any problems?

Bojan: It's my mother tongue anyway, so I don't have any problems.

Kris: It seems very stupid to me that Slavs should communicate in Germanic languages. Even with the Czechs at Eurovision we communicated in both languages and it worked. It seems to me very inauthentic to speak English, but on the other hand I understand, because young people in Slovenia today are surrounded by English, maybe even more than Slovenian, and it is much more natural to them than to struggle in their own language or in a language that is supposed to be related to their own. It would be interesting if "interslavic" was introduced in all countries with Slavic languages as a second or third language. This is a mixture of all the Slavic languages, which is supposedly understood by all the members of the Slavic peoples. A language that is similar in its own way to all of us.

Esperanto, invented in the late 1980s as a counterbalance to the overuse of English, was a similar project. I do not know how many people still use it today.

Kris: Introducing a new language is not the easiest cultural process.

You have a big tour coming up, actually the first tour of European capitals.

Kris: Yes, first we're going to Skopje, then Munich, The Hague, Amsterdam, Madrid and Barcelona. On the 11th of December we're going back to Slovenia for a week, when we're planning to record some more in the studio, and then we're going to do concerts until the end of the year in Slovenia, in Celje, Maribor, Novo mesto and Ljubljana.

These tours must be exhausting. Every day travelling, buses, different cities, masses of people wanting something from you.

Kris: We have six concerts coming up now.

Bojan: We've just played nine concerts in fourteen days, we were in Lithuania, Poland, Czechia and Croatia.

Do fans in other countries remember you only from Eurovision or do they know your other songs as well?

Bojan: The most fascinating thing is that they have learned all the songs from the past too. We actually managed to break that barrier with just one song, but people learned two hours of material in another language. I don't know how many hours they had to devote to it, but they did.

Are you surprised by such enthusiasm? None of you could have planned this.

Kris: We went to Eurovision with this intention, so we can't say that we were completely surprised by the success. The ultimate goal all along was to make a breakthrough abroad. But we were absolutely surprised by the scope of the response. It could have been that Carpe Diem would have been very successful abroad, but the other songs would not have caught on. But we get to the concert and there is no feeling of waiting for this greatest hit, from the first minute people are "in it" and singing.

Bojan: If we sometimes dropped a song from our repertoire that we didn't want to play in Slovenia anymore, one of them being "Proti toku" because it was totally getting on our nerves, there were revolts on the internet and people were carrying banners at concerts saying "Play Proti toku!"

Kris: When we released New Wave with Elvis Costello, we thought that foreigners would prefer to listen to the song in English, but somehow everyone demanded it in Slovenian.

Bojan: They learned the Slovenian version and that's what they want.

I could say that you are kind of the pioneers of a new wave of Slovenian music, one for which Slovenia is obviously too small. None of the previous Slovenian Eurovision representatives have impressed Europe so much.

Bojan: I really don't remember us having any artist like that before. When Sestre went to Eurovision, they rode the wave at the time too, they were doing a lot of international shows too. I mean, it was a different concept, it was a project, but it still worked. Mostly because they actually had a vision, a plan and also a background behind them, there has to be some kind of support mechanism in the process. We didn't have performers in the sense of, okay, you showed up at Eurovision, now do a one-hour concert for me. Most of the performers couldn't do that because they didn't even have enough songs.

Kris: It's not only a problem in Slovenia, you find it everywhere, even among foreign artists. The Norwegian representative was fifth in Eurovision this year, she's very popular, but she only had one song on the market after the contest was over. Now she is going to release an album, but she hasn't had enough material so far.

Have you been preparing on your own to go abroad or do you maybe have some very professional agencies behind you to promote you and push you forward?

Bojan: With the people who are with us, we are our own management. We've never had someone above us who was our boss. We have always been our own bosses. We have our own people around us, but we have reached a level of performing in Slovenia that requires you to have a big team around you. We have about 30 people accompanying us on a regular basis, including the driver. When this success story happened, this breakthrough abroad, we were able to channel our system in a new direction, to at least somehow "patch up" the line up abroad for this year.

Do you cultivate a system of democracy in the band? How do you agree on certain things? By raising your hands?

Bojan: There hasn't been a need for that so far.

Kris: Usually the majority wins, within reasonable limits, of course.

Where do you find yourself more, live performances, making music, travelling, mingling with fans?

Kris: It really depends on the time period. It has to alternate. Solely playing infinite concerts is really fun for a while, but then it becomes tiring. The number of concerts we have played now is just about on the borderline for us to go back to the studio again for some time. On the other hand, spending infinite time in the studio isn't good either. During Covid, we were locked in for two years and we were just making music the entire time, and somewhere in there we kind of lost motivation. In the studio you also realise why you love the stage.

Are you tired after concerts, after a few hours of jumping around the stage?

Kris: The concert itself tires you out much less than the travelling. If you're lucky enough to be able to afford a private bus that takes you from concert to concert, then it's a lot easier. You get into it after the concert, fall asleep, and wake up in another city. The tour that is ahead of us, however, is made up entirely of flying, and that is the worst. Hotels, rushing, packing, taxis, airports, the atmosphere in airports is really unpleasant, no one is happy there, the hours drag on... that is the harder part. The concert itself doesn't tire me out that much. Most of all, we could play two concerts in a row if the atmosphere is right.

All that requires psychological and physical fitness as well. Do you practice any sports?

Kris: I used to be a more sporty person, I regularly played tennis, but ever since Eurovision, I can't find the right time to go back to something regular. I also used to play football recreationally every week, that's gone too. When on tour, I can only afford to run or to go to the hotel gym. But I haven't gotten to the point where I could make peace with that yet.

Bojan: I currently don't exercise at all. I used to train judo for a long time, but now, unfortunately, I haven't yet forced myself to go to the gym or go running when I have a free day. I'd like to start doing that, but I'm the type of person who needs a companion to pull me along and motivate me every day. I'm most drawn to football, martial arts, or extreme sports, but now I don't dare to do anything anymore because of injuries. Lately I've been going horse riding when I'm home. I find that horses calm me down.

Do you follow politics, are you interested in what's going on in Slovenian society?

Kris: Even a year ago, I was a lot more interested than I am now. Not just because we had a different government, but because I had time to think about it. I studied international relations for a while, I'm currently doing my master's. Otherwise I'm a chemical engineering graduate who switched to another university. I used to follow Slovenian politics a lot, but now I don't know if I feel like a fully qualified citizen of Slovenia anymore, since we've spent more than half a year outside of it. When I walk through our city now, I see it with different eyes. I see it almost as if it was any other city in the world, I pay attention to things like architecture or the atmosphere people create. Before, I used to walk through Ljubljana, it was my city, but I didn't pay attention to what was around me. Now I feel like half a stranger, which is weird in a way.

Bojan: For me, Ljubljana has now become a kind of base, a safe haven. I also see it differently than before. I agree with Kris that there are plenty of things that I didn't notice at all and I only see them now. I always perceived Ljubljana in a kind of romantic way, pretty much only the centre, even though I didn't live there from a young age. Only now that we've travelled around countries like Poland, Lithuania, or Finland, I see a lot of architectural similarities, but it has started to bother me that Ljubljana is so diverse in this aspect.

Is this diversity not a good thing?

Bojan: I don't know. Ljubljana smells nice to me, when I was walking around yesterday, I felt like Ljubljana was the last stage of a place. It's hard to say that this is a city, let alone a capital city of a country. Last night I was walking around the capital city of Slovenia at half past nine, and it was literally like I was in a "zombie land". There was no one anywhere. Incredibly weird, but on the other hand, nice.

Kris: That's pretty weird.

Bojan: Everything is getting more rigid, people are locking themselves up in their homes more and more.

Where can young people of your age go out in Ljubljana?

Kris: I'm facing this problem too.

Bojan: I think that in Ljubljana, we have quite a lot of choice when it comes to the number of places meant for parties. When they are open is another problem. We have a number of high quality clubs: K4, Cirkus, Orto, Shooter... for such a small place, we have a lot of clubs. The problem for me is that Ljubljana is a completely dead city in the summer. You can't go anywhere in the summer because everything closes down except Metelkova. For a tourist who's 20 or 25 years old and comes to Ljubljana in the summer, when it's wonderful, it's the most beautiful in the summer, it's a city where they have nothing to do.

Kris: There are plenty of places to hang out, but none of them appeal to me. I used to like going to K4, not anymore now, the last club I visited was Gala hala. It was awesome there.

When you come home nowadays, do you want to go to parties, go around the town?

Bojan: No, not at all. We're not really enthused about going out. When we come back home, we find other ways to relax. When I'm home, it suits me to be able to rest. Otherwise, what I like best is going to a concert.

Kris: That's what I like best too.

The band members constantly stick together, you even go on holidays together?

Kris: We already went together, it was awesome, we function great. The only concern is that we're constantly together. It's not good to be together all the time, each of us has his own life and things to do.

But, Bojan, you even went on holiday with your parents this year? How come?

Bojan: Yes, after eight years, we went on holiday together again. I was supposed to go to Thailand with the band, after the concert in Stožice. I got tonsillitis on the day of departure, so I avoided the long journey. When I felt a little better, I went to my grandma in Banja Luka, and after that, I went on holiday with my parents for five days.

Do they look at you differently in Banja Luka than in Slovenia?

Bojan: They don't recognise me on the street there nearly as much as it happens in Slovenia, it has only happened to me a few times.

Kris: The level at which I get recognised on the street is still okay for me. Bojan is more exposed and definitely has a different perspective. Maybe the most annoying thing is that you are expected to constantly be smiling and ready to take photos. We really are like that most of the time, but there are days when you're not in the mood to socialise, but you still have a concert. Afterwards, a lot of listeners are waiting and would like to hang out with you. I'd like to tell them that I am very grateful that they're there, but that I really don't have a never-ending social battery to be able to talk to all of them.

Bojan: It is ungrateful to talk about recognisability as something negative, because it's simply a consequence of everything we have and it's an expected side product. If I'm in a public place, I know that everyone around me is listening to what I'm talking to someone about. It has become uncomfortable to talk about anything personal with anyone, because you always feel like someone is eavesdropping.

What's your favourite thing to do when you finish a gig?

Kris: The first thing I do is to take a shower. I hang out a little with the team, with the band members, sometimes we go out to take photos, but otherwise, as soon as possible I drink a glass of water and go directly to bed.

Bojan: I'm such a good boy. I always take at least one hour for taking photos with fans.

I haven't yet come across you getting caught drunk or high on various substances, which isn't rare in the music world, it's more like a rule.

Bojan: I view all these extreme excesses as filling a void. For 99 percent of these performers who are said to do this, the roots of those voids are very clear. They come from personal trauma, mostly from childhood. Thankfully all five of us in the band come from very stable and happy families, none of us lacked for anything, quite the opposite, we all had everything endlessly. We have maximum support from all the people around us. We don't feel the need to rebel against anything, because we actually have nothing to rebel against. All these bands that did a lot of drugs and alcohol actually mostly broke up very quickly.

Bojan, you appear to be very energetic on stage, you're spontaneous and charismatic, you have the public eating our of your hand. Do you unleash your alter ego on the stage? Is that a different Bojan?

Bojan: You'd have to ask the guys from the band who spend the most time with me. As far as I know from the stories from people who have known me since I was little, I have always been loud and very talkative. I always liked performing and I wouldn't say that I put on an act on stage. On stage, I let myself go to the max, I think that I really mould myself into what I think belongs on stage. It's not a different Bojan on the stage, he just does some things that belong on stage.

Kris: Bojan on stage is in a higher gear. It's the same for the whole band.

Bojan: People can feel other people. Everything that happened to us is also in large part a consequence of people actually feeling that we are the same people on stage as we are when we come off the stage. We're real here, there's no acting, we also don't think that we're any better than them. We're all friends, they're below the stage, we're on the stage, and we have fun together.

Kris: It's also true that I feel more free on stage. We're allowed more. I enjoy the fact that our concert is a sort of a valve, even though I hate that word.

Like every ordinary woman, I can't skip past your fantastic stage clothes. All my female friends want to wear them.

Bojan: I would also like to wear them in my private life, but I already have a closet full of clothes that have piled up throughout my life, and they aren't like the ones we wear at gigs. But I would like to walk out of my room every day dressed in a way that made me look like I'm in Miami in the 80s, or like a mix between a "drug dealer" and a "drug cop".

Kris: My sister has already looted my closet. I looted my dad's.

Bojan: I have looted the closets of my parents and my sister.

Kris, your dad is a famous musician. Did he help you at the start, what kind of advice does he give you?

Kris: My dad only helped me in the sense that I sometimes showed him what I had written or what we had recorded in the studio, and he gave his opinion. But that hasn't happened in a year now, ever since I moved out. Before that, he could hear me through the walls when I was playing.

Bojan: I've also become independent. Although now when we come back from a tour, I still like going back home the best.

What does independence look like?

Kris: I like it. I can't imagine going back home anymore, even though I love my family immensely. But us not living together anymore has only made our relationships better. I like having my own peace, but I also like coming back home for lunch.

BIOGRAPHY In 2017, five friends started a band called Joker Out. They had all been musically active before, but they achieved the first big success as a band as the winning group of Špil liga in Kino Šiška in Ljubljana. After this victory, the boys became sought-after on all Slovenian musical stages. They released two albums, Umazane misli in 2021 and Demoni a year later. In those two years, they also received two 'Zlata piščal' ('Golden Flute') awards, in 2020 for newcomers of the year, and again next year for artists of the year. This spring, RTV Slovenia sent Joker Out and their song Carpe Diem to Eurovision where, despite a lot of attention from fans, they ended in a modest 21st place. Despite that, European music enthusiasts have welcomed them as their own, their popularity is growing quickly. Joker Out are currently filling the biggest European concert stages, which no Slovenian musician has managed before.

If you repost quotes from the interview, please link back to this post!

#joker out #bojan cvjeticanin #bojan cvjetićanin #kris gustin #kris guštin #Spotify

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choochooboss · 10 months

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July Magma event results!!

July's theme was "Summer Party"! We drew Pokémon characters enjoying the the summer in various festive locations!

The first three gorgeous backgrounds were painted by @beastkonohaworld, @wafflecat2 & @akipoutark ! They also helped me out with this park scene. The results are fantastic!! The scenes got so full of life and detail!! How many pikachu and joltik can you spot? Here's a quick contribution to the scene: the subway bosses got very concerned of this particular little passenger disregarding all safety protocols!

"KEEP YOUR HANDS AND LEGS INSIDE THE CAR!" - one of Ingo's Masters EX quotes. He must be talking about rollercoasters, isn't he!

And here's July free doodle session results!

@akipoutark arranged a mini-event on the doodle session: "RPG Character Select Screen!" We got a pretty rad looking roster here ready for adventures!

I was positively surprised people picked up the canvas prompts based on fun summer activities!

Thanks again for joining!! You guys are amazing!! I hope to see you in our next event!!

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anonymoushouseplantfan · 1 year

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Endgame

I stopped blogging this drama some time ago because nothing new seemed to be happening. Oh, there was tons of telenovela drama, but none of it was "moving the needle" to quote Meghan. Even the Lady C and Tom Bower books were not very interesting, at least to me. I think they were significant in that they shone a spotlight on the various lies and misinterpretations, which I think helped flip the narrative on these two idiots, but if you've been following the shenanigans closely, as I have, they had few surprises.

I do have posts on the Netflix documentary because those had real revelations. However, I think this The Hill article is the real game changer. The Eye of Sauron has turned itself upon them, so to speak.

Those are pretty strong words, and so are these:

"U.S. national security." Wowza.

What's interesting is that a few days ago, this was The Hill's viewpoint:

Way back in December 19th this was a "you" problem in the eyes of the Washington establishment (which is what The Hill represents), now suddenly it's an "us" problem. What changed?

Well, this IPSO poll came out in the UK, showing that the documentary did not affect royal popularity at all. The Brits are calling it inaccurate and the personal popularity numbers were not affected at all.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-more-likely-judge-harry-and-meghan-documentary-inaccurate-depiction-events-crown

YouGov also got positive results for the monarchy.

I haven't seen similar polls regarding the Commonwealth though, but I bet they were done and I bet the results weren't good. The documentary got strong international ratings and the Harkles are going to find out that success is a double-edged sword.

It's going to be interesting to see where this goes. So far, the results are encouraging. Hello, Colonel Kate!

Trooping isn't until June but that got announced in December, which is fascinating.

And Charles' coronation was budget friendly back in October, but it will now be "glorious" pomp and pageantry showcasing UK plc and, no doubt, the Commonwealth.

Harry effed around and now he is going to find out that attacking the family is fun gossip that important people don't care about but attacking an institution that is part of the US national security establishment is a different matter altogether. A lot of people are now going to reassess their tacit support of the Harkles.

It will take a while because no one will admit Harry's Invictus role was axed because of a Netflix drama or internet trolling during the Wales' Caribbean tour, but that will be the eventual result. It will take years and it will be camouflaged as a "reorganization" or "rethinking" of the organization (everything military is now in flux as the establishment analyzes the implications of the Ukraine war) but he's going to be out. Notice that Sunshine Sachs leapt out of the sinking ship way back in September. That was likely the canary in the coal mine.

https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/20220924150955/meghan-markle-parts-ways-sunshine-sachs-pr-firm/

I doubt anyone reads this blog anymore since so many fantastic people are covering this drama now, but I'm compulsive about completing tasks so I'll be covering the endgame (as Scobie would put it, although the monarchy will not be the one losing this game).

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prince-liest · 17 days

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Been thinking about Vox (as one often does) and his very obvious type, especially in 666 and now the new fic. At some point you have to assume that Vox ENJOYS having to talk down psychopathic egomaniacs. I think part of that is that he must be good at it, either through practice or a natural talent or else he wouldn't like SURVIVE these relationships.

But I also think a large part of it is that he gets to pretend he's the only sane person in the room for a bit, and there's a bonus of the really fun kick that The Overlord Vox can get these fucking weirdos to do what he says, WITHOUT hypnotism, thank you very much. I dunno something like a fun mix of his control freak nature and what I'm sure is a fuckton of pride that only HE can get these fantastic lays to keep coming back to HIM (nevermind that no one else in their right mind would be putting this much effort into a relationship with Val or Alastor).

Anyway, you have me thinking about Vox all the fucking time now. I blame you for making him one of my favorite characters when at first I didn't think much of him. The charismatic loser that he is

I majorly agree with you, hahaha. I think Vox is an egomaniac with control issues who's on a massive power trip whenever he exercises his manipulation muscles on Valentino (and Alastor, in my fics). He gets away with seeming fairly pathetic at times when I write him, because I enjoy writing radiostatic and, to quote a comment, Vox's common sense flees any room Alastor enters...but that doesn't mean that he's not still a manipulative, paternalistic asshole as well as an overlord and the CEO of VoxTek. Even when he's down bad, he still thinks he's smarter, more clever, and more capable than anyone that he interacts with, in one way or another. Liking a person doesn't mean that he respects them - at least not always, or not in all capacities.

I actually think that every single member of the Vees spends a significant portion of their time thinking they're the only sane person in the room, hahaha. But Vox is particularly bad about it because he's put himself into a leadership position even among the trio, and a lot of his modus operandi is exercising control over every single person underneath him, including his friends.

#ask #personal #rexlover180 #hazbin hotel #vox #my writing #I'm SO incredibly glad I've contributed to Vox becoming one of your faves hahaha #he actually wasn't one of mine when I started writing 666 #I was an Alastor fan through and through and just thought their dynamic was very interesting #but the more I wrote of Vox the more I was like nah I fucking LOVE this guy he's SNAZZY #so: you and me both hahahaha

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charcubed · 1 year

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Ted Lasso, the Roy/Keeley/Jamie triangle, and – dare I say it? –television history

No matter your preferred term for the throuple, OT3, or poly relationship on Ted Lasso, it’s worth appreciating.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the creative team behind Ted Lasso is doing something with RoyKeeleyJamie that doesn’t exist in precisely the same way anywhere else. In my opinion — and with the disclaimer that my frame of reference is (of course) limited—what they’ve done here is incredibly unique and maybe even groundbreaking.

These declarations of mine aren’t premature or at all conditional on how explicitly “official” their relationship may or may not get to be in the season 3 finale. I say this from my current perspective after episode 3x11, because after that episode I feel that what they’ve been doing with this part of the story has been made abundantly clear.

When it comes to Roy Kent, Keeley Jones, and Jamie Tartt, it would’ve been very easy and even expected for the writers to fall into the trap of making them into a typical love triangle at any point. Yet they never did. People might ascribe the traditional “love triangle” label to the trio because it’s a familiar frame of reference, but as a term I feel like it’s not actually applicable to the story beats we’ve seen.

These characters have never been in any true rivalry motivated by jealousy, insecurity, or possessiveness in regards to one another’s relationships. By contrast, within their triangle and amongst all of their separate pairings, their common denominator has been mutual attempts at building respect, communication, and accountability. Roy and Jamie’s conflicts with each other predated and were never centered around their love for Keeley, and Keeley was never put in a position of having to choose between the boys. Keeley was allowed to care about both of them in different ways, maintaining different relationships with each of them on her own terms. None of them pretended they couldn’t all care about each other in some capacity while still acknowledging boundaries and variation in their relationships. And while this shouldn’t be a big deal or a surprise–especially because Ted Lasso is a show defined by second chances, found families, and endless variations of love–it’s still refreshing enough to warrant praise.

As part of that, because the writers didn’t rely on nor fear the typical contrived “love triangle” dynamic, all three of the characters’ stories were kept heavily intertwined. They live and work in the same spaces, and they care about each other in various ways, so of course they interact and share advice. Their individual arcs were then intentionally informed by the ways they learned to grow because of each other, intertwining them further.

While I don’t know for sure if the writers’ goal was to eventually approach them as an inseparable group, I suspect it wasn’t, based on a couple of quotes I’ve seen float around. That means that they may have seen the potential for the non-platonic “triangle,” chose to lean into it relatively quickly (the show is only 3 seasons!), and continued to build it so it feels organic and cohesive. That speaks volumes as to their talent and it’s also part of what makes this situation so unique.

Along those lines: Ted Lasso is a mainstream ensemble show with several storylines in play. It’s not solely or primarily about romance. It’s also not a “queer show,” meaning that queer storylines were not a central pillar of its premise, nor were they part of its original appeal to or promise to audiences.

Of course, there are now several queer storylines/characters in season 3 amongst the ensemble cast that have clearly been planned from the start, including Colin, Trent, Keeley, etc. That’s fantastic, and anytime a show doesn’t “start out” as blatantly queer but later makes a natural place for the development of queer characters within its wider story, it’s a huge win. It’s also great storytelling!

But rarely is that the case when it comes to polyamory. While there are several movies and shows that include it… most poly representation is within the context of an already radically queer story, or within the context of a story that’s solely about being polyamorous. Any non-monogamous relationships–or even the potential for them–are very rarely given casual, “normalized” inclusion amongst an ensemble, or treated like just another romance in the mix.

And yet… Roy, Keeley, and Jamie seemingly have been, with beautiful complexity. It's like seeing a real windmill for the first time.

This “triangle that symbolizes home” has been built as a three piece, slow burn, collective romance. Equal weight has been given to developing them as individuals while developing all of the ways they intersect and connect, with no combination falling by the wayside. Between Keeley/Jamie, Roy/Keeley, and Roy/Jamie, you can chart the trajectory of how they all grew to love each other and how they’re now coming together as a group towards the end. It all plays out with various levels of romantic motifs across the board, and–as if that isn’t already enough!–with added subtext through costuming/wardrobe, set details, framing, and music. It has been formed and shaped with great attention to detail, and of course with unbelievably beautiful acting choices that bring it to life. (Analyzing those details at length would require its own post.)

This sort of thing may exist in other media, but I’ve personally never seen anything like it before. I’ve certainly never heard of it happening in such a high-profile, widely-loved show like this.

Here, with one episode left, the equal setup of the three now feels complete and ready for a future. Roy and Keeley aren’t back together yet, so Jamie wouldn’t feel like an add-on if that is indeed where they take the story. Roy and Keeley haven’t even kissed on screen this season, in a way that feels deliberate (and anticipatory). And it’s now clear that the relationship struggles any 2 characters may have had as couples can be improved upon by adding the third person, so they’d all be fully supported in a throuple.

For example: Keeley helps them all to be more vulnerable and open while also being a problem solver. Roy’s steady, heartfelt, but no-nonsense encouragement builds them all up with confidence but not toxic pride. Jamie now wears his heart on his sleeve, bringing a level of fun and joy that’s incomparably him. If Keeley sometimes needs space, Roy and Jamie are clearly happy to be indefinitely tied together (sometimes literally). If Jamie or Keeley want to be the life of any party, they’ve got a partner for the scene so Roy doesn’t feel obligated to match that energy. Roy and Jamie relate through football as a specific kind of language, understanding that part of each other as only they can while Keeley cheers from the side. Each of them has taught the others new skills along the way.

If any of them now enter into new relationship territory, it sure seems like they’ll do it all together as a full set–and be stronger for it.

Feel free to call me a fool, but at this point I’m confident that at minimum they’re going to leave this story hinting at the three of them getting together off screen in the future. That’s the baseline I personally really wanted, and it’s more than I’d have previously dared to hope for.

In terms of what could happen on screen: Do I want them all to have a conversation about dating each other and/or kiss and/or be shown in bed together? Yes. Do I think at least one (if not all) of those things are going to happen in the season finale? After episode 3x11, I find myself nearly convinced we’re going to get SOMETHING of the sort. It feels like a thread that needs pulling (or a Chekhov’s gun that needs firing?) after Roy and Keeley’s conversation in Jamie’s room. It’s the next bit of natural and needed evolution for all of them.

Or, as Trent Crimm once said, “You’ve done this over three seasons. . . thousands of imperceptible moments, all leading to their inevitable conclusion.”

But am I counting on that inevitable louder conclusion? Will I be disappointed if it doesn’t happen? Do I think any of that explicit behavior has to happen for this poly relationship to be considered canon and have merit?

Not at all.

That’s not how I choose to view media. Personally, I never play the unwinnable game of debating the ever-shifting goalposts of what constitutes “good representation.” Relatedly, I think the word “queerbaiting” is almost always misused and probably shouldn’t exist at all. And I’m tired of the lack of nuance in these discussions where people act like fictional queer relationships have to hit a certain level of “canon enough” in order to “count.” Many of those arbitrary goals seem to often be determined by whether or not ~all audiences~ can magically be convinced by the queer relationship’s seeming legitimacy. But queer stories aren’t made for the people who are oblivious to them at best or looking for reasons to disregard them at worst; at the end of the day, they’re made for queer people, as well as for anyone who has media literacy and an open mind.

If you ask me, RoyKeeleyJamie is already “canon.” Anything else we get now is just a bonus. And ultimately–after everything I outlined above–I am very aware of how unique this particular situation is, and how more explicitly going “all the way” with any queer dynamic (let alone polyamory) is still never a simple or easy task for creators to accomplish. Even in 2023.

However.

IF they do it?

If everyone involved in both creating this show and approving it (which is very key) had the sheer courage to go all the way with this storyline, in a way that most mainstream audiences won’t be able to ignore or deny without sounding stupid?

Well.

Then they’d better get a great deal of overdue praise and acknowledgement. And I will be loudly losing what’s left of my mind in the best possible way.

(I had to write this now just in case I’m incoherent after the finale.)

Either way: I am FLOORED by what we’ve gotten up to this point! I’m thrilled! I’m having a great fucking time!

And I’m very, very grateful to the team that’s put together such a beautiful triangular love story for our enjoyment.

It truly feels like it’s one of a kind.

---------

I posted this on Medium as well here :)

(so I can pull the lunatic move of tweeting it @ the writers with a more legitimate link)

#ted lasso #roykeeleyjamie #roy x keeley x jamie #roy keeley jamie #roy keeley jamie ot3 #roy kent #keeley jones #jamie tartt #ted lasso 3x11 #ted lasso season 3 #ted lasso meta #char writes things

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itsclydebitches · 1 year

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Continuing my perhaps delusional argument/hope that Ted permanently returning to Kansas is just a red herring, I was thinking about our references and callbacks this episode. Specifically, how they don't paint Kansas in a positive or unique light.

The Wizard of Oz pinball game is definitely the most on-the-nose nod to his return, yet in the scene itself Ted is literally refusing to play.

When we get a closeup on the machine we're shown Dorothy's house spinning out of control. That is, a moment when she leaves Kansas for the bright world of Oz, not the ruby slippers of her return.

Similarly, Beard loses his game before Ted walks over. The ending of the Wicked Witch is one wherein Dorothy (Ted) does not go back home.

(I'm not entirely sure what to do with this one yet, but having Mae quote "This Be the Verse" is certainly A Choice. Though I think the overall message -- people, specifically parents, will inevitably hurt their kids -- is an uplifting and very relevant argument within Ted Lasso's heartfelt context -- ergo we should acknowledge that we'll never be perfect while still striving to improve -- but that last line? Oof. "Get out early as you can / And don't have kids yourself"? That's not the proposed solution I'd expect for an episode that was sending Ted back to his son for good. Obviously Ted already has Henry, but it may be significant that Mae eschews a generic 'You can do it!' argument for a far more nuanced and harder to swallow conclusion, perhaps one that heralds Ted's controversial decision to stay separated from Henry for at least part of the year.)

(Also let's toss in the fact that Dottie uses a football metaphor -- not American football -- to describe how Ted needs to parent: sometimes you lose, sometimes you win, mostly you just tie, and all you can do it keep playing.)

Finally, we've got references to both BBQ sauce and sunflowers via Ted's WiFi password and the bread Dottie bakes him, Ted's "favorite."

Half a season ago these would have been straightforward references to Kansas, positive ones at that. However, post-S3E6 (literally titled "Sunflowers") Ted has both of these beloved objects tied to the UK instead. He enjoys the beauty of Van Gogh's Sunflowers in the Amsterdam museum and finds a BBQ sauce so good that it inspires him to (hopefully!) win it all in his English sport.

It might just be me reading into things because I'm looking for my preferred ending to the series... but also I don't think I am because it's weird that Kansas is continually framed as a negative this season. Ted is still super awkward with Michelle. Her new boyfriend is kinda awful and likewise makes him incredibly uncomfortable (understandably). The Wizard of Oz references aren't targeting the happy aspects of the story, or even the parts about going home. The symbolic references to Ted's beloved state (sunflowers, BBQ sauce, the little green army men) have all been integrated into his life here. We get a whole episode about how once Ted learns to focus on Henry instead of Michelle, Henry has a fantastic time living in London. Hell, this episode opens with Ted enthusiastically greeting everyone he passes on his walk, a beloved member of the community, a staple of this town... and then his mood turns sour when he hits his Kansas-sprung mom.

Obviously Ted is undergoing some last-minute growth when it comes to being a father to Henry (and healing the rift with Dottie), but I think Ted's in-universe improvement is misleading, implying that because he may think he needs to return to Kansas, that's actually how the story is going to end. If that were the end-goal though, I would expect the subtext to have a more hopeful, optimistic feel to it; something that not just implies Ted's return, but argues why he would want to outside of Henry.

If none of that is relevant... that's going to be even worse for me than Ted just going back to Kansas. A Kansas ending framed as a positive is far from my preference, but it's (arguably) a strong conclusion to Ted's journey. A Kansas ending after all these implied negatives both isn't my preference and feels like more objectively bad writing.

#Ted Lasso #Ted Lasso spoilers #look if I was writing the show #all the Dorothy references would be a deliberate mislead #actually culminating in a 'Ted is a friend of Dorothy's' reveal #but sadly I do not have this power lol #mymetas

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dianight · 20 days

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Perhaps some day we could have a serious conversation about why despite her amazing character designs and great variety in body types compared to other mangaka, Kui Ryoko still chose to have all but one (two arguably) of the characters with an active leader role in the story of Dungeon Meshi to be men.

Spoilers below.

It is a fantastic manga, to quote a post I've read a while ago (paraphrasing), Dunmeshi is 95 chapters long and no panel is irrelevant. But! Out of all the groups in the story only one is led by a woman (elf queen) and she does not actually participate in it.

Laios' party has Marcille, but she is at best "second in command" if you will, as much as Chilchuck is.

Kabru's party, the orcs, the governor(s), the gnomes' party, the canaries, Shuro's party, the dwarfs and even the golden kingdom (Delgal and Thistle). Fionil and Doni are minor characters and they're a party of two, we could assume both share the "leader" position.

One can find excuses to each of those choices, but at the end of the day the choice was made to make them men.

Kabru could have been a woman, it would not change anything at all.

Zon and Leed could have swapped places, with the older sister leading and taking a less violent approach to the hotheaded younger brother.

Either/both of the governors could have been women, no difference.

The leading, more vocal and abrasive of the gnomes could have been the old lady and the quiet one the old man. I struggle to see if anything would change at all.

The canaries are mostly women, and they were led by Milsiril back in the day and the queen leads them, technically. Still, the choice was made to have Mithrun in the role of Mithrun with everything it represents. Could it have been the younger sister that has her love stolen by the older one, would the dynamics be the same? Tempted to have the life she could not get by the demon, getting eaten (but not fully!) and seeking revenge? Would Milsiril spare her this time? We can't tell, Mithrun is a man. It was a choice made by Kui-sensei.

Could Shuro have been a woman? Seeing as he's the fantasy equivalent of a japanese young lord(!) probably not(?) in terms of how it would be presented. A young lady with her entourage chasing after her unrequited love and getting beaten to it by another lesbian? Sorry but this looks like the kind of ntr I enjoy now. But I don't think it would be the same conflict with Shuro/Marcille and Shuro/Laios. It could(!) work, but not in the kind of story where (almost) all the leaders are men.

Could the dwarves have been women? I don't see why not. Senshi could have been inspired by a mother figure (or older sister) as much as he was by his mentor (whether you see it as a father/older brother/something else figure). All the women in the party starving while the young kid survives? I won't even call it sexist (<- not joking).

Could Delgal have been a queen instead? What about Yaad being a princess? Or Thistle, still a jester but a woman now? Which manga readers thought he was, for a while. It would require an author that doesn't put the importance on the king while the queen is irrelevant.

Am I overthinking things? There are a lot of important characters who are women in the story of Dunmeshi. People have jokingly described the plot as a lesbian trying to resurrect her girlfriend, and it would be accurate although not fully correct.

But the issue remains that all leaders except for the elf queen are men. I don't believe it was by chance. It might have been a deliberate choice for reasons that I can see, or it might have been completely unconscious when designing the characters and writing the story.

What a shame.

#dia talks #dungeon meshi

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lovebombs4life · 8 months

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"So...you wanna have sex?" and "That was...amazing." with Calum and calum and reader are on a date and calum is being awkward and thinks he's messed everything up but she's still interested in him 👀

second date - c.t.h

requested: yes! i’ve been dwelling on this one for so long cause i didn’t know what to write for it-

a/n: keep sending requests, PLEASE.

cw: SMUT!!! oral (f & m), fingering, slight choking, slight daddy kink, dom!calum, unprotected p in v

———

i laughed with calum, sitting on my living room floor. it was our second date, and we decided to order italian food and watch a movie. after having a few drinks, we ended up on the floor, sitting next to my fireplace.

“y’know, you’re really fantastic. thank you again for paying for dinner. are you sure you don’t want me to pay you back?” i asked him.

he nodded. “i’m positive. you’re letting me drink your “fancy wine”, plus my father always told me, never let a woman pay for dinner, and to be a gentleman.” he laughed. i smiled at him, giggling at his air quotes.

“well i don’t get very many hot guys in my house, let alone a rockstar, so you know i had to bring out my fancy wine.” i laughed. he smiled, looking into my eyes.

his eyes flickered down to my lips, mine doing the same. he bit his lip, moving closer. “can- can i kiss you?” he spoke softly. i nodded, pulling him in. his lips were soft, and tasted like my cheap wine.

he held onto my face, stroking his thumb over my cheek. i placed my hands in his chest, enjoying the kiss. he pulled away, still holding my face. his eyes were dark, and i could feel his heart pounding in his chest. he giggled as he watched me.

“so… wanna have sex?” he asked, taking a deep breathe. my eyes went wide, and that gave him the idea that he messed up. he pulled his hands back, starting to panic.

“shit, y/n, i’m sorry, i- i shouldn’t have said that.” he said, putting his hands in his hair, tugging at his curls. the sight of his pulling his hair turned me on, making me think of how it would be if i were the one to do it.

he was still panicking, squeezing his eyes shut. i leaned back over to him, giving him another kiss. he gasped, melting into the kiss. my tongue glided across his bottom lip before he opened his mouth to let me in. he groaned in my mouth as i had knit my hands in his hair, pulling slightly.

he pulled away from the kiss, going down to my neck. he licked at my skin before sucking on it, surely leaving a dark bruise on my neck. i moaned at the feeling, pulling his hair again.

he bit down gently, making me yelp. his breathing quickened as he trailed down, kissing at my shoulders. his hands grabbed at the bottom of my shirt, pulling it up over my head. he threw his head back, seeing my light blue bra, adorned with lace.

“so fuckin pretty. you’re body is so perfect.” he praised, making me blush. i pulled his t-shirt off of him, my hands trailing up and down his chest, admiring his tattoos.

his lips connected back to my skin, going down to my breasts. he swiftly popped the clasp apart, letting my bra slide down my shoulders. my nipples hardened at the cold air, and calum took the advantage of sucking on them.

i whimpered at the feeling, wanting more. “cal, please, i need you to do something, touch me more.” i begged. he smirked at me, pulling my leggings down, revealing my panties that matched my bra. he pulled those down too, taking in the sight of my body.

“look like such a goddess, could look at you forever, y/n.” he moaned. i threw my head back, waiting for him to touch me. his hands gripped my thighs, pulling them apart.

without warning, his tongue dipped down between my folds, quickly finding my clit. “shit, calum, your tongue feels so good,” i breathed, moaning at the feeling of his fingers circling my entrance. i tugged his hair, slightly guiding his head around.

my thighs started shaking, signifying that i was close. “calum, gotta let me cum, so close baby.” i whimpered, wanting the release. i felt him smirk against me, curling his fingers upward.

i gasped, clenching around his fingers as he did so. i released onto his fingers, making him moan. just as he pulled his fingers out of me and bringing them to his lips, i pulled his hand to my face, sucking his fingers clean. he moaned lowly, loving the sight.

he pulled away, unbuckling his jeans. i gasped, seeing his size. “don’t know if ill be able to take you.” i whined, making him chuckle at me. i pouted at his laughter. he grabbed my throat pulling me close to him.

“good girls don’t pout. are you gonna be a good girl?” he spoke darkly. i nodded frantically, moaning slightly as he squeezed.

“i can’t hear head nods. need your words.”

“yes,” i moaned. he squeezed a little tighter.

“yes what, baby?” he taunted. i swallowed hard.

“yes daddy.” i moaned out, wanting him to fill me already.

he smirked, letting go of my neck. he slid my hips forward, rubbing his tip against my slick entrance. he pushed in softly, letting me adjust. i whimpered at the pain. i was right, i knew i couldn’t take him.

“need me to stop?” he asked, his eyes softening. i shook my head, wanting more. “want you to fill me, don’t care if it hurts.” i cried, pulling him deeper into me.

he moaned at my eagerness, still keeping it slow. “you can move, please, please move.” i begged.

he slowly started rocking his hips, making us both moan in unison. “fuck, y/n, so wet, feel so good.” he spoke, his head hanging down, watching me.

he lifted one of my legs over his shoulder, going deeper inside me. i screamed out in pleasure, feeling him so far in. he started going faster, soon enough he was pounding into me.

one of his hands was above my head, while the other was holding my hip, guiding me to him as he fucked me. “fuck! calum, with last much longer!” i moaned, trying to contain myself.

he groaned at my words. “please daddy, wanna cum on your cock,” i cried. i clenched around him, and he moaned once more.

“fuck baby, say it again, wanna hear you louder this time.” he said, lowering his head to my neck. he sucked hard, leaving more visible bruises on me.

“wanna cum so bad daddy, want to cum on your cock, let me cum baby” i begged. he thrusted harder, making me loose my breath.

my body started shaking as he fucked into me, both of my legs now over his shoulders. i released around him, clenching as i tried to catch my breath. he kept going, becoming more sloppy as he felt me tighten.

“fuck, i love your pussy, y/n. feels so good around me, so fuckin tight.” he moaned. i nodded, still shaking, riding out my high. his cock twitched, and he pulled out quickly. he used his hand to keep going, and i slid down to where his cock was. i licked his tip, making his hands lift up, letting me take control.

i shoved him in my mouth, sucking hard before letting him go down my throat. “fuck!” he yelled, hot spurts of cum running down my throat. i looked up at him through my lashes, smiling as i pulled away.

we both fell back against the couch, trying to catch our breath. “that was…” he trailed off.

“amazing.” i finished his sentence. i looked over to him to see him nodding his head. “i think that’s the best sex i’ve ever had. pretty sure it’s the most i’ve ever cum, too.” he spoke.

i giggled, moving over to cuddle into his side. he wrapped his arms around me, and i laid my head on his shoulder.

“wanna go for round two?” i asked. he looked at me, eyes wide.

he grabbed my hips, lifting me to go upstairs to my bedroom.

#calum hood #5 seconds of summer #ashton irwin #luke hemmings #michael clifford #calum 5sos #ashton 5sos #michael 5sos #luke 5sos #5sos5 #5sos #calum hood smut #calum hood imagine

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