#Ceterophobia
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Some TERF DOGWHISTLES TO BE AWARE OF:
"sex class /sex based class" analysis that ignores and erases intersexism and transmisogyny in favour of equating trans women with cis men (misgendering)
"male supremacy" - and assuming (the small minority of) trans women who are awful to other trans people are that way because they are some kind of crypto MRAs and not just radfems and or assholes in their own right. Any harmful behaviour done by a trans woman is immediately assigned to "male supremacy"
"AMAB supremacy" just the same as calling trans women "male supremacists" & equating them to cis men and cis men MRAs - terfs seem to think that this is a way to get their "trans women are MRAs" shite past our BS detectors
"male socialisation" - especially when talking about (mischarecterising for grooming purposes ) intracommunity trans issues eg "trans women dOmInAtE and oppress trans men and trans spaces due to their male socialisation /experiences being raised as boys & trans men are demure in spaces and unwilling to speak up against the mean domineering trans women because of female socialisation "
"AFAB solidarity" - "trans men are my sisters (in the fight against the eevil trans women) " rebranded
#trans unity#transmisogyny#Transandrophobia#Terf dogwhistles#Transphobia#Exorsexism#Ceterophobia#Intersexism#Edited to add thanks for reminding me
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Just something I saw on twitter the other day. It's worth reiterating that if you believe TERFs over trans men you ain't a trans ally.
When you see terfs calling trans women "violent males" you know that that is transphobic and deliberately misgendering.
But when terfs call trans men "confused girls" for some reason everyone reads that as-is and don't twig that like "violent males" it's a derogatory dogwhistle to refer to trans men.
Hence, when people try to tackle transandrophobic terfs, they go about it all wrong because they take terfs at their word they are actually talking about girls and not trans men. Leading to people assuming that trans men don't get hate from terfs.
This is why transunitism is important! Sure, you can identify when a terf is targeting trans women, but can you tell when they target trans men and nonbinary folk?
If you somehow managed to stop every terf from being transmisogynistic overnight, you haven't stopped terfism. If you eradicated all homophobia against gay men overnight, that doesn't eradicate lesbophobia.
It all has to be tackled together, with each other.
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Oh lovely, the transandrophobic "trans inclusive" rad/ical feminis/ts are now calling te/rfs "twerfs" (trans woman exclusive radi/cal femin/ists).
Hey, you know how terfs "soured" a lot of people on genuine, intersectional feminism?
You're just them but trans, regardless of your gender. You're JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle in blue white and pink. You're writing essays on the evil predatory (trans) men invading (trans) women's spaces and mutilating their bodies with testosterone and cutting off perfectly healthy organs and rejecting the only good gender as traitors.
That last part is just verbatim, even.
Add trans in front of the genders in any transphobe's horrific ranting and you get your own posts. You're cruel, you're class traitors, you're feds in binders and gaffs too pathetic to even demand pay for the work you're doing for our oppressors.
Trans unity means I never give up fighting for your rights, even as you're throwing them to the wolves just for a taste of what it feels like to have your boot on someone else's throat. You justify it because of who you say has faced the "worst" pain, has been hurt the "most" by (trans)misogyny, because don't you know that women have the right to speak over any other marginalized person on their own oppression because only women really know what it's like to be oppressed?
Merlin's unwashed nutsack, do you fuckers even hear yourselves? You're indistinguishable from ter/fs!
Yeah, I'll keep fighting, because I can understand that even the most sniveling narcs who think they're "saving" people by betraying them, even the people radicalized enough that they actually believe in the bullshit they're spreading, don't deserve oppression.
Quite frankly, this post isn't FOR them, no matter how much it's worded like it is, because rage is not a tool of deradicalization and I refuse to judge even bigots every bit as taken in as your average Jehovah's witness or Amish person for doing harm while being victims of the group they're doing harm for.
(All the same, the accusations of trans people being indoctrinated and taken in by "MRA shit" are not only blatant projection, but also in the rare cases that they are true, pale in comparison to the quantity and scope of harm done by this actual significant growing group of radicalized trans people .)
Since I've mainly seen people with some form of "baeddel", who call people "transandrophobia truthers" or "transandrodorks" doing this, perhaps people need a reminder that baeddels were a group who took that name themselves (after it had fallen out of usage for several hundred years, claiming they were "reclaiming" it) who did a shit ton of harm to transmascs, nonbinary people, intersex people, and transfems.
These trans-woman "inclusive" radic/al fem/inists who actually are dangerous and violent towards every transfem that doesn't agree with you. TWIRFs are not a fucking joke. And to be exceedingly clear, there's a reason I hyphenated trans-woman in the acronym spelled out, because it's an adjective modifying inclusive; trans people of every gender make up "twirfs".
There's a decent chance they'll either take "twirfs" and wear it like a badge of honor, like some t/erfs do, or claim it's a slur, like... oh, like some terf/s do. I've read the playbook, and if there's a play I haven't laid out, I'm sure it'll be just as uninspired and plagiarized from te/rfs. But who knows, maybe they'll come up with something new and horrific and surprise us - every so often, ter/fs do that too.
Anyway, if you see this post and wanna tell me, an intersex transneufemmasc, what a horrible awful transmisogynist I am for acknowledging all forms of oppression I face and not just the single one I share with most of you, fuck off and block me. I've got no time for the usual suicide baiting, florid violent fantasies of me being raped and/or tortured and/or killed, and the like.
Besides, while you are fucking dangerous, I've got worse danger to deal with than you on a daily basis, for being a visibly genderqueer fat disabled person in a place where everything from gender roles to medicine is stuck in the 18-fucking-hundreds. I truly do not have time for your bullshit.
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Btw if you guys were curious about the rampant hypocrisy and intersexism in the trans community the person in the last reblog proceeded to respond to my post by telling me to fuck off because I, “wasn’t transmasc,” despite me explicitly saying I was transfemasc due to being intersex and genderfluid, then said that I was assuming they were cis and calling them a “TERF meanie,” two things I never did or even said anything remotely close to.
And then continued, on their blog, in three separate posts, to rant about how “transmasc/tme people/people who purposefully obfuscate are their relationship to transmisogyny” are “the worlds biggest crybullies,” how people “on this site romanticise being oppressed,” that “some people seem to pride themselves on being borderline sociopathic,” and how we are “mra clowns.”
So I guess I’m transfem and not transmasc when it’s convenient to ignore my perspective on transandrophobia, but transmasc and not transfem when they want to delegitimise my experience with oppression and imply I’m whiny for talking about it. Then I’m a “mra clown” when it’s convenient to see me as a man.
Then they went in for the triple whammy and were lowkey ableist, I’m sorry but I’m not “priding myself on being borderline sociopathic” by… having ASPD, I guess? I’m just being open and trying to spread awareness.
I normally would just leave it alone, I mean they blocked me so obviously they don’t want to interact and the feeling is mutual. But I feel like this is a really good example of bigotry (i.e., intersexism, ableism) from within the community, as well as a good example of how a transfemasc person might experience lateral violence by being painted as whichever is most negative at the time while simultaneously being denied their status as someone who is both.
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Okay, here's something I think the people implying that talking more about transfem OR transmasc issues decenters a group need to hear...
In math, subtracting a negative (ie, removing bigotry) can become additive (net positive experience for trans folks). But adding can NEVER become subtractive. Talking MORE about any trans experiences is not excluding discussion about any other experience.
And this discussion is not a finite resource, so it's possible to continue adding discussion any time the discussion becomes "unbalanced".
Personally it would be nice to see more discussion of ceterophobia too ^^ But I know that just expressing that gently will work because you guys have been really responsive about listening. Also if you need any more mods ever I'd love to help!
Yes, I fully agree! We plan to talk more about transfem issues, but that doesn't mean we'll talk less about any other issues - to the contrary!
Regarding ceterophobia, I heard the term a few times - is it the same as exorsexism? That's the term I usually see for oppression of non-binary people, I'm wondering if there is an important nuance between the two! We've been taking steps to talk more about nonbinary issues (especially transneutral, but not only! as a transneutral person myself I'm well-placed to share my experiences on this) - so I definitely agree that we should follow-up on more discussions of ceterophobia/exorsexism too!
In terms of mods, I joined the mod team when Luke went in a hiatus, but since then we haven't really had need for any more. Although if you want, feel free to give us contact info so we can tell you if we need any more help in the future!
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Proud advocate of the bi or pan nonbinary to fagdyke queer pipeline
You can pry my intricately connected orientation and gender alignment from my dead hands. I sit at that beautiful sliver of intersection between faggotry and dykery and I love it.
#fagdyke is spicy i think more of us need to use it#yes im serious#radical inclusivity#rad inclus#fagdyke#queer#mogai#ceterophobia#transphobia#biphobia#panphobia#reclamation
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Should there be a term to discuss specifically bigotry toward transneutrals?
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And no, I'm sorry, but that doesn't exclude binary trans ppl. I've been in the trans community for five fucken years and I've faced a fuck ton of discrimination and exclusion at the hands of binary trans folks (mostly trans dudes, surprisingly). There is a huge exorsexism issue in the trans community. Y'all... The white stripe is ours. Does nobody realize we've been here all along?
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Yeah. Cis ppl are the biggest source of it but y'all aren't exactly saints either. I just wish people would be more open minded.
I hate it when nonbinary is only ever used when it's time to a) debate somebody's subjective experience or b) make a political argument. I'm not a fucking debate. I'm a person.
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LMFAO
#LMFAO????#SORRY JUST.#LMFAO#binarist language cw#ableist language cw#ceterophobia tw#communism#socialism#intersectional feminism#leftblr#Reddit#are the straights okay#equal rights
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Transandrophobia: A F.A.Q
!! Please see this updated version !!
If you find this FAQ useful and/or you want to help me out, you can donate to me here.
What is transandrophobia?
It is transphobia that targets transmasculinity. Some people also refer to it as transmisandry or anti-transmasculinity.
What are some examples of transandrophobia?
Laws blocking medical transition or puberty blockers, which come from fearmongering about "young girls ruining their bodies to become men"
The idea that AFAB trans people only transition to escape misogyny and gain male privilege
The idea that transmascs are "betraying" womanhood by transitioning, and that it would be more feminist of them to "stay women"
The erasure of transmasculine voices, history, and culture, to the point that many people do not know that transmasculine people exist, or think that transmasculine people do not face violence because they don't hear about it
Being refused important medical exams and treatment because they are only for women (such as pap smears) for transmasculine people who are legally male.
Testosterone being a protected substance which people can be fined or arrested for having without permission from a doctor.
Also see my examples of transandrophobia tag for more, and my experiences with transandrophobia tag for people's real-life accounts, and the Archive of Violence Against Transmasculine People.
Androphobia doesn't exist, though, so how can transphobia intersect with it?
The term "transandrophobia" was made to emphasize the targeting of transmasculinity, not to represent an intersection between transphobia and androphobia; the same goes for "transmisandry".
Transunity theory considers misandry to be one of the "three arms of transphobia", along with misogyny and misandrogyny. All forms of transphobia view trans people as having the negative traits of masculinity/manhood and femininity/womanhood, as well as the negative trait of being unable to fit into either binary option (androgyny). This is also why transunitism uses "transmisogyny" to mean transphobia targeting transfemininity and not just as the intersection of transphobia and misogyny it was originally coined as. Alongside exorsexism/ceterophobia/nonbinaryphobia, the use of these three terms to express transphobia targeted towards different groups allows us to discuss the way different groups of trans people are perceived and treated.
To quote this article, "Misandry [...] can never reliably be prevented from collapsing into transphobia." Negative traits associated with masculinity (aggression, hypersexuality, dirtiness, being a danger to vulnerable/innocent women, etc.) are used as justification to attack all kinds of trans people based on trans people as a class's unique relationship with gender, as well as intersex people's. These negative traits are also frequently used as justification for the oppression of marginalized men, who are seen as both an opponent of dominant masculinity and a threat to dominant femininity. Cis men do not need to be systematically oppressed in the same way as cis women in order for misandry/androphobia/antimasculism to be an aspect of transphobia and play a role in other forms of oppression.
Does transandrophobia mean transfems oppress transmascs?
No, not at all. Trans people cannot oppress each other for being trans; none of us have the systematic power to do that. Transfems can be transandrophobic, but that is lateral aggression. Transfems do not have any social power over transmascs. Transandrophobia is built and propagated by cis people and they are the ones who have power over us.
Anyone who argues that transfems are uniquely/especially transandrophobic, that they have class privilege over transmascs, or that transmascs should separate from the wider trans community are either not arguing in good faith, or are transmisogynistic and should not be listened to.
I've heard some really bad things about the coiner of the word transandrophobia.
Firstly, the accusations at Saint were a part of a smear campaign that heavily distorted the facts to make him seem like an awful person. He also coined "transandrophobia" as an alternative to a pre-existing term, "transmisandry" - he did not create the idea nor did he start the discussion on it, merely the term now most widely used. See this explanation by doberbutts, a black trans man.
But regardless of how you feel about Saint, he gets no material benefit from the use of his word. He gets no money from transandrophobia being used, it does not "support" him in any way. The word was coined in good faith to give transmascs a word to describe our experiences with specific forms of transphobia. See the "genetic" and "guilt by association" fallacies.
Why is it important to have this word?
Why is it important to have the word transmisogyny, or exorsexism/nbphobia? Those could also be grouped under "general transphobia", but it's vital that we don't because we need to understand where certain ideas come from.
Bathroom bills don't just come from a general hatred of trans people - fearmongering about transfems being sexual predators is what causes them. Ignoring the transmisogyny rooted in these bathroom bills obscures the true motivation behind them.
"There are only two genders" is transphobic, but it isn't based in a hatred for binary trans people - it's aimed at nonbinary people specifically. Fears about the destruction of gender come largely from nonbinary existence.
Laws against transitioning do not come from fears about trans women, they come from the idea of young girls "corrupting themselves" by cutting their hair, taking testosterone, and getting affirmative surgery. By being able to point out where exactly certain transphobic ideas come from, we can better fight transphobia as a whole; that's the idea behind transunitism.
Additionally, discussing transandrophobia has helped many people (myself included) become more comfortable identifying as transmasc/trans men. Transandrophobic and antimasculist ideas are unfortunately very frequent even in queer spaces, leading many people to avoid identifying as transmasc. Speaking out about transandrophobia helps people realize that the problem exists, and heal from the damage it has caused.
This is meant to be a primer for people who dont know much about transandrophobia, to clear up common misconceptions and introduce some ideas. Please do more research into transandrophobia and the nuances of it when you can.
Further Resources:
""Transandrophobia" Primer" by nothorses
"As a transfem, what's your insight on the way transmascs are treated when talking about their experiences?" by cipheramnesia
"This is just your regular free-of-charge reminder that when people argue that transandrophobia does not exist, or that its not important enough to talk about, they are explicitly saying they don't care about sexual assault victims or victims of suicide (among other things)" by nothorses
"Transandrophobia Posts Masterpost- 2022" by transgentlemanluke
Pinned post with links to discussions about transandrophobia, baeddelism, and other issues by nothorses
"What is transandophobia actually?" by transmasc-pirate, with additions by doberbutts and psychoticallytrans
"Transandrophobic Fundamentals and the Intersections of Trans Masc Marginalization" by none-gender-left-man
"Hello, I apologise if you've already received questions like this, but can you explain why you would say that transmisandry/androphobia is distinct from misogyny?" by transfaguette
"I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out." by Jennifer Coates — not transandrophobia related, but a very valuable read.
This conversation between doberbutts and folly-of-alexandria on how transandrophobia differs from general transphobia and why it's important, which lists some further examples of how transandrophobia manifests in life.
Transandrophobia Explained carrd, by myself
Transmisogyny is not the intersection of transphobia and misogyny by luckyladylily
This post on misogyny, misandry, and transandrophobia by thorne1345
"tumblr can make fun of Blizzard’s Oppression Calculator all they want, that’s exactly how people act with discourse poisoned queer discussions" by cardentist
Invisible Men: FTMs and Homelessness in Toronto by the FTM Safer Shelter Project Research Team
On Hating Men (And Becoming One) by Noah Zazanis, an analysis of transmasculinity in feminism & Marxist feminst "unity theory"
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Quiet reminder that all kinds of transphobia are a mixture of misogyny, hatred of androgyny - and yes, misandry. Though the latter one isn't systemic in cis society, it is systemic when applied to trans people (cis people police gender, ergo, misandry is part of that gender policing toolkit. As is misogyny (which makes up the bulk of the kit) and anti androgyny).
I see people often arguing that transmisogyny is transphobia + misogyny for trans women and transandrophobia is transphobia + misogyny for trans men. This isn't wrong, but it is incomplete.
Just as the misogyny experienced by trans men is misgendering, so to is the misandry faced by trans women. E.g. Terfs calling trans women 'dangerous men' is misgendering and borne out of a hatred of men or masculinity. Even Serano notes this is a factor in transmisogyny in Whipping Girl. Ergo, misandry is a misgendering element in transmisogyny.
Transmisogyny contains misogynistic and misandric elements. It also contains anti androgyny elements (which is distinct to nonbinaryphobia which I'll get to in a second). Anti androgyny is the third tool in the toolkit of transphobia. Against trans women, anti androgyny is expressed by means of rhetoric which stokes fear at the trans women who aren't overly feminine or masculine, which transphobes hate since it means they cannot tell (despite their claims they 'can always tell'). It's complex, but anti androgyny, like misogyny and misandry, has a lot to do with how an individual is presenting, not necessarily how they identify.
Transandrophobia contains misogynistic, misandric and anti androgynous elements also. The misogyny might look like terfs saying "trans men are just lost/confused 'women'" for example. The misandry might look like accusations that trans men are joining the 'enemy' by hormonally transitioning. While the anti androgyny is again centred on not being immediately clockable by transphobes.
Nonbinaryphobia (or Ceterophobia, Exorsexism etc) also contains misogynistic, misandric and anti androgynous elements. The misogyny may be levied at nonbinary people who present femininely, the misandry at those who present masculinely. But it isn't clear cut and entirely depends on how the transphobe has perceived the nonbinary person. Regardless of if that matches the person's actual presentation or identity or not. The anti androgyny again has to do with not being clockable and therefore uncategorisable by transphobes as to which transphobia they should unleash.
This is a flyby tour of the concept, so I hope it makes sense.
Just as there are 3 arms of transphobia: transmisogyny, transandrophobia and ceterophobia. There are 3 tools within each of those as well: misogyny, misandry and anti androgyny.
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"Transmasc as in someone who is trying to act and present more masculine" shut up shut up shut up!!! Stop misgendering DEAD NONBINARY KIDS based on the fucking ASSUMPTIONS you are making about their presentation! Listen when people correct you! Gods damn, how hard is it to accept that nonbinary people are not automatically "presenting" masc or fem because you think they are, even if they face gendered violence for it? How hard is it to recognize that calling someone a gender label they do not use, even if they "technically" fit under it, is misgendering???
Literally go fuck yourselves. I use he/him to present femme and she/they to present masc because those are the ways I feel safe engaging with genders that have been forced on me by an exorsexist society! When I wear "masc" clothing, I am presenting butch/androgenous, comfortable, and soft. When I wear "femme" clothing, I am presenting cute, cold, and mysterious. When I wear a fucking cloak, I'm presenting as cool as hell.
And I actively fucking identify as transneufemmasc! Listen to the people who don't, who are telling you that forcing those labels on them is a form of violence! Listen to the people telling you that you are fucking misgendering and rebinarizing them when calling them masc/femme when they are not! Listen to the people telling you that they are presenting exactly as they feel comfortable doing so for their gender, and your assumptions are both meaningless and reaffirming the idea that pronouns, clothing, and so on, is inherently gendered.
Also listen when they tell you that you can face gendered violence because of an assumption that a bigot makes about your identity, and that you taking their victimhood and insisting they ARE the identity the bigot misidentified them as because of the violence they faced is a special kind of cruelty and betrayal.
Fuck you.
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psst! hey! um...what's a "TEHM"?
I keep meaning to just take this off the banners/etc because using the word is no good if nobody knows what it means. Communication is null if one or more parties doesn't understand what's being said y'know
It stands for "trans-exclusionary homosexual male". It's a bit of a gay cis man version of a TERF (TERFs are very commonly bisexual or lesbian cis women), and the groups ally themselves in many ways.
Their rhetoric overlaps strongly but it comes down to: I don't want to be around transphobic, bio essentialist, or gender essentialist people. So really, to save time and hassle, I should just list these ideological principles instead of bothering with every precise ideological label.
... which themselves, as ideological principles, are overlapping but not 1-to-1 interchangeable synonyms.
E.g. there are radfems who are not trans-exclusionary-- they are still gender essentialist, just trans-INclusive about it. "Yeah men are inherently cruel toward women, that includes trans men! Women are inherently victims to men, that includes trans women too!" type shit
E.g. transphobia isn't always bio essentialist, like certain forms of nonbinary-specific transphobia (which I call ceterophobia). Dismissing microlabels and "unusual" gender experiences as attention-seeking is transphobic but not really bio essentialist
E.g. bio-essential transphobia isn't the only bio essentialism out there. Racism is traditionally bio essentialist. Ableism is often bio essentialist. Eugenics itself is bio essentialist. Over-attributing individual people's strife to them rather than to their circumstances commonly strays into bio essentialism.
Basically... transphobia, bio essentialism, and gender essentialism go hand-in-hand but have some exclusive characteristics. I should make a fucking Venn diagram about it lmao
#this has been today's tangent not really related to the initial subject. tune in next week for more on The Adhd Network#dammit i keep forgetting to make and use an ask tag#not rats but worth sharing#t3rf shit cw
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what the fuck is ceterophobia. you people are making up words for stuff that already has words
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