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#panphobia
eeldritchblast · 7 months
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They’re Not “Playersexual”, You’re Just Biphobic
(I was going to save this until September 23 because I thought that would be an appropriate date, but the Ask I got included in this essay just put me over the edge. So, here it is now. Buckle up.)
Bisexuality/Pansexuality is the attraction to people regardless of gender. About 4% of the USA alone (over 13.6 million people) openly identify as bisexual, according to Gallup’s latest polling. But unfortunately, bi/pan identities are so scary to some folks that they need to make up terms to avoid calling their favourite characters such. Thus, the term “playersexual” was born: a term to describe a game character who is attracted to the player character... regardless of gender.
If that sounds like it’s just a circuitous way of describing a bi/pan character, it’s because it is.
I first heard of the term “playersexual” almost a decade ago, from a Dragon Age fan complaining that Dorian was gay and thus it was “unfair” that she couldn’t romance him as female character. This fan said they wished BioWare would go back to Dragon Age II’s model of everyone being “playersexual” for “equality”.
Now, if you’ve actually played DA:2 and you’re not a bigot, you’re probably rolling your eyes just as hard as I did when I first read such a ridiculous statement. Well, prepare for this next one:
“When you make a male Hawke, Anders and Fenris are gay and Merrill is straight. Opposite is true if you make a female Hawke.”
These people are so afraid of bisexuality that they cannot even fathom its existence. They can believe in dragons and magic, but they cannot believe that a character is simply bi/pan. I find this especially hilarious for Anders, considering he had a canonical boyfriend, as confirmed both in-game and in The World of Thedas: Vol. 2 book.
I truly thought we were past this nonsense in 2023. I really, truly thought that. But then Baldur’s Gate 3 was released in full, and suddenly these same fuckers came out of the woodwork to bend over backwards avoiding calling these characters anything except bi/pan.
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Note how in the above Ask, the anonymous questioner actually doubles down on avoiding addressing these two characters in particular as bi/pan!
“Playersexual” doesn’t even truly work for the characters of Baldur’s Gate 3 regardless, because the definition is oriented around attraction to the player character… which these characters are not exclusively attracted to. Here are some examples that prove otherwise:
If neither Lae’zel nor Astarion/Gale/Wyll are in a romance with the PC, Lae’zel will say she plans on propositioning one of the men for sex at the night of the tiefling party. She also flirts with Karlach in party banter.
Shadowheart expresses interest in Karlach, (“I like her. She looks like she could throw me over her shoulder and carry me to safety, should the need arise”) as well as Halsin if he leaves the party, (“he may have been misguided, but I liked looking at him.”)
Astarion flirts with nearly everyone in the party, but to just pick two examples: he mentions Wyll is the type of princely figure he used to dream about marrying, and says to Shadowheart “such a grim name for such a beautiful flower”.
Gale used to date Mystra. He also debatably flirts with Astarion by offering him some blood, after Cazador’s battle.
Wyll flirts with Lae’zel in party banter, and also refers to Halsin as a “delight” and “hunk”.
Karlach seems to have a little crush on Jaheira by the way she reacts to meeting her. She also says of Halsin, “everyone in this camp wants to climb that oak”.
Please keep in mind these are just a few examples I’ve picked out from screening through the dialogue, and there’s even more that prove the attraction to different genders these characters have is not related solely to the player. It’s just part of their identities.
In the Ask sent to me above, the anonymous questioner said they “cannot see Karlach as anything except lesbian and Astarion as gay.” This is just as bad as saying they are “playersexual” in my opinion, because yet again it’s erasing their bisexuality/pansexuality. Worse yet, it’s doing it because of the way the characters act. You cannot measure queerness based on actions and appearances being in line or not with queer stereotypes—it’s not a scale! And bi/pan folks are just as queer as lesbian and gay men, by virtue of simply being bi/pan!
All in all, I think this entire “playersexual” debate boils down to the fact that some people still refuse to see bi/pan identities as anything but “discount straight”. And that’s why people are rightfully angry when folks try to further this myth by pretending bi/pan characters don’t actually exist.
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mommyclaws · 3 months
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Is everyone willingly ignoring it or when are we going to realize this petty label discourse has always been rooted in misogyny. This started long before Bi Lesbians. Some of you are just too new or simply never paid enough attention to realize the history of this hatred of lesbians. Do any of you remember?
First it was "Butches aren't valid" because they were invading wlw spaces with their "masculinity"
Then it was moved onto: "Trans women aren't valid" because actually they were the ones invading wlw spaces with their "masculinity" The exact same arguement being used against cis women as well.
Then "Pan/Bi women aren't valid" because your attraction to men or anyone other than a woman doesn't belong in wlw spaces.
Then it was "Nonbinary lesbians aren't valid" because if you're "not a woman" by my definition you're invading wlw spaces.
"Asexual/Aro women aren't valid" because your lack of "real" attraction to women doesn't belong in wlw spaces.
"Lesboys aren't valid" because you are invading wlw spaces with your "masculinity"
"Bi/Pan lesbians aren't valid" because your attraction to men or anyone other than a woman doesn't belong in wlw spaces.
Oh wait? Where have we heard those last two before? Wasn't everyone arguing about those SAME issues with Butches/Trans wlw and Pan/Bi wlw?
Yes, exactly. Would any of you take ONE look back and realize this is only repetition of problems we have already decided don't dictate our identities?
They say, "You're not a real lesbian unless you do this and that and even if you do that you'll never be good enough." No matter what lesbains do, there will always be a problem. Why? Because this isnt about being a lesbian, this isnt about women, this is rhetoric started by terfs and it will never be anything more.
Sure, you can follow their rules to feel valid, but you'll never be good enough. You're an invader too because they'll sprinkle in little things to feed the insecurities and rules that THEY fucking created.
You're not a real lesbian unless you're a "gold star lesbain" meaning you've never dated or been attracted to a man. You're not a real lesbian unless you're feminine. You're not a real lesbian unless you hate masculinity.
Which is just translation for: You're not a real wlw unless you hate men and don't deviate from gender norms. And, WHO would've thought! Is exactly what terfs want.
They sink their claws into the newer generations because they don't remember what our community has had to go through, all they see is the fake issues created and they think it's a threat because they're being fed "This is what's valid and this is what's not" and it seems like it's never going to end because women being anything other than passive and simple with their identities are immediately taken as a threat to the community by those who are insecure and need to demand the exclusion of anyone who doesn't follow their rules to feel like theyre part of a group.
Anti-Bi/Pan Lesbians have become sheep because they only surround themselves with online discourse instead of the real issues LGBTQ people face and in their attempt to keep a "clean community" They're more unwelcomed than the people they tell to kill themselves. So caught up in fake problems others or themslves have made up that they fail to grasp the simplest of concepts: Labels DO NOT exist in real life. Labels are created to help people describe how they feel or identify. They are not and have NEVER been a final definition.
Labels are worn HOWever and WHENever the owner feels like it. They're not collars. They're not cages. You can't use them as such. You can't use them against us.
When? WHEN? When did we decide that a label- A WORD- matters MORE than the real life feelings that real life people are experiencing?
Why did we dehumanize the ability to feel attraction and expression?
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hussyknee · 1 year
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I don't care how much you reblog ace positivity posts if you don't learn to recognize and call out every form of radical feminism in queer spaces. My community was decimated and our support systems destroyed because of this shit. Both we and the aromantic community have still barely recovered. Many of us won't feel safe in queer spaces ever again. And now I see the same vile shit now attacking trans mascs. Slapping "TERFs DNI" on your bio is worth fuck all if you're fine with keeping the door wide open to the same scumbaggery wearing different hats. If you aren't also dedicated to stamping out this culture of oppression Olympics, of trying to find acceptable targets by conflating individuals with oppressive systems, and making social justice into a cudgel to beat people into submission with, we're always going to be vulnerable to self-righteous bottom-feeders out only to validate their own trauma by hurting anyone within reach.
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theharlotofferelden · 6 months
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Gonna take the bigot’s advice and make my own post on this.
The problem I have with people having this “opinion” or “headcanon” that Astarion is gay (or that Karlach is a lesbian) is that it’s directly alienating to bi and pan folks within the community. Like, there’s bi and pan ppl in the community and you’re saying this shit on main like it’s just a cute lil opinion that’s free of consequences. It’s not ✨just an opinion✨. When you say shit like this, you’re stereotyping queer people and are invalidating that bi and pan ppl exist and are allowed to exist in ways that contradict your understanding of what it means to be queer.
Acting like there’s a difference between saying “I can’t imagine him with women” and saying you only see him as a gay man is being deliberately obtuse. We all know what you mean and the fact that you’d prefer to double down and act like a child in an adult fandom is honestly embarrassing.
On top of that, you have folks (like this person) claiming that because they’re queer themselves they are somehow incapable of perpetuating queer stereotypes and/or being bi/panphobic. I don’t know how to make you understand that it’s complacent to think your identity makes you immune to being a bigot. I rly don’t.
If you’re thoroughly invested in the idea that Astarion is gay and Karlach is a lesbian, please ask yourself why. Then ask yourself why you are easily ruffled when people try to tell you that your opinion is directly harmful to the community. Then ask yourself why it’s so important to cling onto this “headcanon” and what you’re really losing when you acknowledge that all of these characters are bi and pan.
But to the folks who are gearing up to chime in with “lol I’m not reading all of that”: I’m sorry I’m not fucking pithy enough to speak on a subject that gets rehashed every fucking decade. Peace and love ✌️
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trans-androgyne · 15 days
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It feels like such a small thing go focus on but remembering the “transmisandrist transfem flag”… it’s all literally just a cycle.
There was a genuine flag made back in 2021 on Twitter which was “anti-mlm/wlw solidarity / gay-hating lesbian” because this same type of person was mad that the ocean gay and achillean flags exist.
(and were strangely updet that both of those flags they hated were made by and included transmascs. A lot of bashing on “only whiny insecure transmascs like or use these so they’re garbage for us Real Gays” which I still see around)
And before that it was “panphobic lgbt pride flags” And before that there were plenty of “aphobic lgbt pride flags” and entire joke pride flag blogs mocking the concepts of things like Xenogenders or Neopronouns.
It’s all just one big bullshit cycle and they bury it once they move on and ignore everyone going “none of what you said what true and you hurt me?” with “lol old discourse”. It’s getting harder and harder to forget and forgive. I don’t know if I will either.
(I’m literally not on Testosterone so anyone weird towards you for your post will have to blame my Estrogen)
It’s exhausting. Something desperately needs to change in the online queer community but I don’t know how.
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vigilantsycamore · 11 months
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The 2000s-era misinterpretations of what bisexuality and pansexuality actually mean and what the difference between the two is has helped precisely none of the queer community but has done a lot to help the people who want to divide the queer community.
Pansexuality has been recognised as a sexual orientation since the 1930s, with the 60s and 70s bringing the term a bit closer to the spotlight. Throughout that time, the term was understood as “attraction regardless of genders” while bisexuality was understood as “attraction to many or all genders/attraction to similar and different genders” though not always described with exactly the same words.
And then the early 2000s happened. Some people started claiming that bisexuality excludes trans people. Then people started claiming that the difference between bisexuality and pansexuality is that pansexuality doesn’t do this.
I don’t know how these misinterpretations happened but I have guesses - maybe it was part of a push from parts of the queer community to seem more normal and less queer, maybe it was a result of cishet society misinterpreting these terms as they became more aware of them, maybe it was a result of bigots in the community looking for an excuse, maybe it was something else. However it happened, the point remains: these definitions of bi and pan were misleading, historically inaccurate, and only served to sow division within the queer community.
And then when people started calling out these misinterpretations, instead of just saying “this is false,” they created a second misinterpretation: that pan people were to blame for all of this. That the term “pansexual” was coined in the 2000s as part of this misinterpretation and before then pansexuality just wasn’t a thing. And this has been used to justify excluding pan people from the queer community, and accuse the entire orientation of being inherently bigoted.
So just to be clear: I’m bi and genderqueer. Bisexuality is attraction to many or all genders, pansexuality is attraction regardless of gender. These terms have been subject to a lot of misinterpretation that has done more harm than good; I intend to correct these misinterpretations wherever I see them.
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poetikat · 6 months
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"My character is immoral, he's a vampire, but he's also pansexual, and that's not the first thing you find out about him. It's not like, "I am this, this is my statement." It's more just like another aspect, another facet of my character, like "Oh, I'm also pansexual, that's another thing." It's not the only thing about me, it's another thing about me. I just think it's cool. It's normalization, which I think is very important, especially for younger generations to feel accepted, to feel seen, to feel known in that way. Players can think, "My character can represent who I am and be all the aspects of me, not just a hairstyle."
Neil Newbon, ScreenRant interview, Aug 3, 2023
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luminalunii97 · 11 months
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It's interesting that when I complain "jughead shouldn't have been portrayed as a cishet guy in Riverdale, because we don't have nearly enough asexual representation on tv, we shouldn't lose canon ace characters to straightwashing", I'm being stupid and it's "classic interpretation". Same for Deadpool.
But heaves forbid if a cishet character is represented as queer in new productions, suddenly everyone lose their shit. And their screams of WOKE deafen you. You know what sweetie? It's the "modern interpretation"! Deal with it!
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punkeropercyjackson · 2 months
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When transandrophobia dudebros say the most blatantly and often even violently misogynistic shit yet claim they still have 'female experiences' and 'a right to speak on women's issues as much as women do'...............Yeah no,you're 100% a man and this is an affirmation,a reminder and an insult
@thisismisogynoir
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jasontoddssuper · 7 months
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I've never met any fandom as obsessed with making racist white characters into 'the REAL victims' and creating personalities out of their nothingness as the Harry Potter/Marauder's Era one.They convinced themselves that the faction who are a metaphor for n*zis(Slytherins)are 'discriminated against for being ambitious' when the reason everyone hates them is that they're bigots and bullies towards minorities and when there's exactly one canon poc amongst them.And now,because they're selfish enough to betray their trans siblings and jewish people and disabled people and like every other opressesd group in existence for their own nostalgia,they've turned the ones who never even appeared onpage into their 'unproblematic blorbos' because they're THAT desperate for white faves.It's just plain weird really
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narwhalsarefalling · 2 years
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idk how to say it but 25 semi structured interviews of folks who got internet brainrot is not research. you’re just picking data you want to correlate your conclusion.
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Sometimes I forget how cruel my parents can be. Back in middle school (oh-so-long ago) was when I first noticed it. I was questioning my identity, who I was. I had friends all around me who were all around the LGBTQ+ or autism/ADHD spectrum. I knew for a fact I wasn’t straight. Eventually later in high school, I thought I was Pansexual. But even for the longest time, after thinking I had figured myself out, I never came out to my parents. They always claimed that ‘girls can like/dare girls’ and vice versa. The only things they had problems with were Transgender folk, and Furries. To this day, they still feel that way. What I ended up learning in my high school years, was that they also disliked Pansexuals. And I quote “pansexuals will f*ck anything, and anyone, whether it be a transgender f*ck, a dog, a cat—“ and so on, saying people like ME (even if they didn’t know it at the time) would screw anyone and anything. It was heartbreaking to hear them say all of this crap about at least half of the people in the LGBTQ+ community. That’s why I never came out to them. Just today, the subject of LGBTQ+ was brought up over a call. Along with ‘reasons why society is failing today’ but I won’t get into that second part. They were going on and on, dissing on the fact there was a furry in my school back in high school (why he was brought up after all these years, I do not know). I wanted to come out to them as Asexual-Panromantic right then and there. But I didn’t. My parents have always said “you’ll grow out of it, and one day you’ll want kids”. I do not. I know by the way I was raised (in an unsafe home at the time, not yet living with my parents full time) that I would be a horrible mother. And I know they still don’t like Pansexuals, and they might confuse ‘panromantic’ to be the same thing (or still feel the same about them, despite the differences). So I stayed silent. I don’t know what I’m going to do. My boyfriend (mind you, we look like a straight couple. I am not. He is straight, and as I said I am Ace-Panromantic) is accepting of me, thank gods for it. But I knew one side of my family (my dad’s side) was bad enough (hardcore Christians). But hearing this from my mother and step-father, when I finally was starting to hope they would accept me? It was a harsh snap back to reality for sure. All I’m saying is, it’s unfair what they were saying. They were blaming this/our generation for what was wrong in the world because of our identities in LGBTQ+, and also blaming us for not being able to discipline, (saying WE were the ones to start with the whole ‘it’s abuse’ cry out [which was them too]) claiming that we were sissies, and other words I won’t say for the sake of everyone. It’s hard, not being accepting by anyone other than my siblings and few close friends. I have it better than most in this situation I’m sure. But it’s still awful having to hide myself, my own personality, from my family.
Thank you for listening 💗
Huge respect for you guys.
🫂
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hussyknee · 9 months
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A concerning number of y'all are reblogging posts by exclusionists who think bi/pan lesbians are a threat to "real lesbians". This is radfem rhetoric, even when its peddled by trans women and nonbinary lesbians. Which is ironic because Idk how you make the fear of a wholeass gender trans-inclusive.
If you're putting this shit on your blogs, you're no friend to aces, aros, bi and pan people, trans mascs or nonbinary people. We have had enough of being seen as threats to the queer community. Please reblog critically and with care.
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I originally came up with the phrase “live experiences > your rules” to talk abt transphobia against trans men. I’m now thinking abt how this phrase could 100% apply to many other identities that also get shut down when talking about their discrimination. Here’s some blinkies for y’all ^^
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bhaalbaaby · 6 months
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no but literally just because someone sounds and talks a certain way doesn't mean that they have a specific sexuality. like it's so wild to me that we have to keep iterating that astarion is pan and karlach is bi, that the whole origin companion list will flirt with each other and have previous relationships that can be discussed and w/e in the game. it's not playersexual for someone to be open to all genders because that's what they like lol.
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