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eggcompany · 1 month

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Jaskier and his Snuggly Wuggly Killing Machines Part 16

Spin-off of our work Jaskier and the Snuggly Wuggly Killing Machines!!!!

Jaskier has some of his fellow musicians over and his manager, Rosemary (Miss Rose). Eskel and Geralt go to cuddle and nap in the basement. But Geralt won't cuddle with him! Eskel come up to Jaskier crying for some loves but Jaskier tries to send him up to bed early! Miss Rose to the rescue with snuggles.

“Well boys you can go take a nice nap and I’ll come wake y’all up when everyone leaves. Lammy and Aiden, you can go ahead and be upstairs. I’m gonna turn on The Peabody and Sherman Show down here if you want to stay. Just stay in one place okay? I’m going to be very busy.” Jaskier explained to the pups as they washed up from being outside. They got rather icky today, given they were all almost naked and sweaty rolling around in dust and sand. So each got a shower and their hair brushed out by Vesemir. The older witcher had been picked up earlier though, dental appointment or something.

Geralt, who was scratching absently at his own stomach hairs, nodded and yawned. He had decided that he really only needed to wear a pair of grey sweatpants. Eskel was pulling his head through his heavy wine red knit sweater, he hadn’t bothered with pants but put on a pair of plain black boxer briefs. Lambert, who was helping Aiden pick out a short, was clad in his favorite grey fluffy socks, green plaid boxer shorts, and a snuggly grey cotton sweatshirt. And Aiden, getting pulled into wearing a pair of borrowed black sweatpants and a Champion brand t-shirt.

“Um… we’re gonna go to Lam’s room.” Aiden said and walked out of the bathroom and across to Lambert’s room. The other cat was close behind him. Geralt and Eskel snicker at them and smiled over at Jaskier. Geralt walks by him and gives him a kiss on the cheek.

“I’m so tired, daddy. I’m gonna make a nice nest and sleep.” Geralt says tiredly, his eyelids drooped. He had run himself to exhaustion. Surely he would be drowsy even after his nap. Geralt made his way down to the ground level and then to the basement door. Eskel hugs Jaskier and snuffles his hair with his nose.

“I’ll go nap with Bear. I’m tired too. I wanna cuddle up with bubba.” Eskel says and yawns. He walks down to the basement and Jaskier follows him.

“You’re such a sweetie. That’s alright. I’m gonna be up late tonight so get your cuddles in now. Maybe Lammy will let you sleep in his nest with Aiden tonight.” Jaskier said and set the TV to play the animated show. It was one of the boy’s favorites, so it should keep their attention should they wake up.

Geralt was hauling out an armful of blankets to the already piled up pillows. Eskel automatically went to fix them into a large U-shape. Jaskier checked the small fridge that was near the TV. There were a few juice boxes, a half gallon of chocolate milk, waters, and plenty of puddings and cheese sticks. He looked over at the few snack baskets and they were moderately still full. He’d need to remember to buy more cheese crackers and popcorn…

“Alright, well darlings my friends are gonna be here soon. Have a nice nap, I love you both!” Jaskier said and watched the two flump down into their nest next to each other. He hopped up the stairs and closed the door behind him. He picked up the living room where a few pillows had been on the floor and he pulled out his wine glasses and made sure he had a few nice bottles pulled out in the fridge. He looked around and made sure Lambert and Aiden weren’t being too loud but he couldn’t hear anything. He clicked his stereo system on to play some quiet instrumental music.

There was a knock at the door, signaling his bandmates were finally here. Jaskier happily walks over to the door and opens it smiling.

“Welcome to my kinda new home! Come on in!” Jaskier calls out and steps aside to let everyone else in. Gwen and Alfie smiled and handed him a large bottle of honey rum (one of his favorites!) and walked into the living room, flopping down on his couch. His manager, Rosemary, walks in and gives him a great big hug and tells him “You have a beautiful home!” and she sits in the large cushiony black chair. Finally his drummer, Gino Patrick, walks up to him and engulfs in a big hug.

“Hey man! Sorry I couldn’t make it to Valdo’s party! I was swamped with my taxes! I wouldn’t get my papers, it totally sucked. I’m so glad to hear that you’re back though! I heard about the uh… dogs? Bears? I dunno, I heard a lot about your new house mates.” The shorter man said and patted Jaskier on the back. Gino was a shorter man who always had something going on. He was only a few inches shorter than Jaskier but still. He had dark black hair and dark brown eyes that are always lined. Gino shoved a small bag into Jaskier’s hands.

“Here’s a little somethin, somethin, from Mama. She’s been bored.” Gino said and walked in and said hello to everyone else. Jaskier looked down and noticed it was a few thin pieces of hand carved wood, guitar picks. Jaskier laughs and slips them into his pocket.

“C’mon, house tourrrrrrr~” Gwen egged as Jaskier walked into the living room. He laughed and shook his head.

“Fine. Whatever, c’mon losers.” Jaskier joked and motioned to be followed. Everyone stood to follow him. First he pointed over to the basement door but stood in front of it to make sure no one opened it.

“This is the boy’s kinda playroom. They’ve got a TV and toys and stuff down there. I’d really like to show you guys cause it’s so cute but Bear, uh I mean Geralt and Eskel are sleeping and stuff down there right now. But yeah don’t go in there, it’s their safe space to relax and play.” Jaskier explained and Rosemary put her hand over her heart and ‘aw’ed. Everyone nodded and Jaskier showed them over to the kitchen where everyone grabbed a glass and he pulled out the chilled wine.

“I kinda freaked out about safety before they came home so everything is both child proof and puppy proof so like yeah… lots of latches. Which by the way do not work when you have a two hundred pound beasty wanting a snack at 2 a.m.. I swear I thought one night a raccoon got in the house but no it was just Lambert scavenging for spaghetti Os.” Jaskier said and laughed.

“Oh my gods… how do you even control them like… they’re huge. Gino they’re the size of volkswagens.” Gwen said and smacked the drummer's arm. He in return looked shocked and looked up at Jaskier. The singer sipped his wine and leaned back against the sink.

“They’re so well behaved. I really don’t have to reprimand them all that much. Sometimes I have to kinda pull Eskel off of Lambert at night because he has a bad habit of like… rubbing himself on pillows and stuff at night and Lammy hates it and occasionally Geralt chews on the banister but really they’re very good listeners.” Jaskier says and the guitarist hums in understanding.

“Oh he self soothes at night then? I’ve heard of cats doing that sometimes.” Alfie said and Jaskier nodded and walked to the recording studio and bathroom. They were the same as before he had renovated. Then he stepped onto the stairs but halted for a moment.

“Um… Maybe we can not go up there. Lambert and Aiden are… They canoodle in Lambert’s bedroom and let’s just say they like to be left alone. It’s just their bedrooms, their bathroom, and then my bedroom still. I really just added onto the back.” Jaskier said and Gwen, Alfie, and Gino all looked shocked. Jaskier started to walk to the backyard but the guitarist grabbed his arm.

“You let them have sex? What if one of them gets pregnant? You already have three, you couldn’t manage a litter!” Gwen whisper yells and the other two nodded. Rosemary smirked and put her hand over her mouth. Jaskier giggled a bit but shook his head and answered.

“They’re witchers. They’re sterile. They’re all neutered. Completely. Plus they’re just boys, no worries.” Jaskier said and walked to the back deck. It was getting dark now so the air was much cooler than it was earlier.

“I added onto the porch and ya know… decorated. Eskel keeps asking for more planters and he takes such good care of his flowers so it’s really pretty out here. That’s their sand pit, and they were wrestling in the big mud puddle earlier today. They always put their toys up and keep the deck clean and everything too.” Jaskier said as everyone went around to look at the large variety of plants and hanging baskets. Vesemir had brought the eldest boy a few books on botany and grafting plants and propagation, since then he was really into planting. There were a few large pots around the railing that held lush green flowerless varieties and there were baskets hanging off the railing with small colorful flowers and hanging baskets of plants that spilled over the lip of the pot to hang down. Jaskier loved to sit back here and watch Eskel water them and clip and cut and poke cuttings into different boxes. There were many bowl shaped pots that lined the outer wall that had many varieties of babies growing and putting on new leaves.

“Woah dude, it did this by itself? That’s awesome man!” Gino said which Jaskier smiled at but corrected him.

“He, Gino, He did it by himself. But yes, yes he did. A much older witcher that comes over often, he gave Eskel a few books on plants and he just has a knack for it.” Jaskier said.

They sat and talked on the porch for a while before they traveled back to the kitchen for more wine that ended up just being brought to the living room. They spent hours drinking and talking. Art, new artists on the music scene, gossip, drama, family, social life, everything Jaskier had missed.

Jaskier was sitting on the loveseat with his manager and everyone else spread out in the room. He was saying something about a new line of guitars that he saw but the basement door opened and a pouting Eskel walked out. His ears were drooped down and his tail was sagging behind him. He kept his head down until he walked over to Jaskier.

“Hey baby, what’s up? Why're you pouting?” Jaskier said, concerned. Eskel looked so down in the dumps. He could tell by the way he was chewing on his own lip that he wasn’t quite out of his softer mindset. Eskel sniffled and kept his eyes on Jaskier’s knees.

“Geralt kept shoving me ‘way from him and he wouldn’t let me under the blankie and he snapped ta me when I tried to cuddle him and he won’t let me hold him and and and-” Eskel said in a hush rushed voice. Tears prickled his eyes and started to fall by the time he was done. Everyone in the room was quiet. Jaskier stood up and hugged him, though the pup didn’t hug back but instead kept crying and sniffling.

“Aw, poor thing. Well maybe he’ll want to cuddle later tonight. How about you go get a bath upstairs and you can watch a show in your room till it’s bedtime? How’s that sound?” Jaskier said quietly as he thumbed away his tears. Eskel sniffled and shook his head. Everyone else was whispering around them and Jaskier was about to suggest it more but Rosemary stood up and shooed away Jaskier’s hands. She lifted his face up to look at her and his face relaxed some.

“You poor little baby! Oh you just need some lovin’ don’t you? Come here, you can come sit with me. Shoo stinky ole daddy away and you can sit right here.” The woman said and shoved Jaskier’s shoulder and sat Eskel right next to her. Jaskier looked at her in surprise for a moment but decided to go sit on the couch with Gwen and Alfie.

Eskel smiled and happily let her situate him. He was sitting on one side of her and his legs were thrown over her lap. She pulled his head to rest on her collarbone. She cooed at him slightly and had one hand in his hair to rub the bases of his ears and the other rubbed up and down on the outside of his thigh. Eskel purred loudly and closed his eyes.

Jaskier watched with his mouth open in disbelief. Gwen reached over and closed his mouth with her hand. Jaskier just stared and threw his hands up.

“I’m being replaced!” Jaskier said dramatically. Everyone, void Rosemary, laughed and joked at him that he stank and that he was ugly and such. All the while Rosemary pet gently around Eskel’s ears and the pup flicked his tail up into her hand.

“Aw what a soft tail. Do you brush it? So pretty, yeah, you are so pretty.” Rose whispered quietly to the pup as he purred and snuffled into her exposed collarbone. She was wearing a soft red gingham a-line dress that had a square cut neckline. The fabric was so nice to Eskel… It made Rose look like a lovely lady right out of a picture book. Eskel had a handful of the skirt fabric in his hands, rolling it back and forth in his fingers.

“Oh soft ears too. You’re just a big fluffy baby, aren’t you. Just need some pets, huh.” Rose whispered again and kissed his forehead. This caused Eskel to freeze. His breath was still in his lungs and his eyes were wide open. He was stiff as a board. Rose seemed concerned about the quick change.

“Oh, I’m sorry I should have asked first. I’m sorry, Eskel. I won’t do it again.” Rose said frantically which caught Jaskier’s attention. Eskel was sitting stone still and hadn’t even let out a breath. His eyes were open and his muscles were frozen.

“Hey, Wolfie, baby, what’s wrong? Bad thought?” Jaskier asked as he walked up and bent down in front of Eskel. Suddenly Eskel breathed out and his face turned a roaring red color.

“Daddy, Miss Rose kissed my forehead. She gave me a kiss on my head. Daddy, daddy she she kissed my forehead . Miss Rose did. Me , she kissed my forehead.” Eskel said frantically and smiled widely. His eyes blew out wide so only a thin ring of yellow showed. His feet and hands started to curl up and then stretch out, a funny little movement to see on such a large creature, making biscuits most called it. It meant that he was overly happy. Jaskier laughed and looked at Rose’s worried face.

“I think a certain little wolf has a crush on our ‘ Miss Rose ’! How cute!” Jaskier announces to the room. Aw’s spread through the room. Rosemary looked surprised but then hugged Eskel against her chest.

“Aw! Do you like me, little pup?” Rose asked and Eskel buried his face into her neck and nodded quickly. Rose pets him and smiled.

Eskel relaxes and Rosemary goes back to talking to everyone else in the room. She thought that the weight of him felt nice. His little sleepy sniffles and even breaths were cute as she felt them against her skin. She assumed he was fast asleep when he started to rock up slightly. She shushed him and petted his tail. He stilled and slept peacefully.

“Alright, it’s fuckin’ late I’m gonna crash out in the Uber probably. Peace out Jask.” Gino says and walked to the door. Everyone else called goodbye. It was starting to get late… The boys would need to go to bed soon. As if reading Jaskier’s thoughts Gwen piped up.

“Hey, we should probably head out too. You probably need to start putting the pups to bed right?” She said and stood up. Her and her partner put their glasses in the sink and said their goodbyes. Jaskier stood up and stretched. Rose was still petting the eldest pup and was leaning her chin on his head.

“You think you can leave him last? He’s just so good. He’s sleeping so well. Poor little thing.” Rose said and looked at Jaskier with the world's best puppy dog eyes. Jaskier thinks for a moment before nodding.

“Yeah I can go ahead and put Geralt to bed and check on Lamm and Aiden. Ya know he usually doesn’t act like this to strangers. He really only cuddles up to me and Yennefer.” Jaskier says and picks up the last few wine glasses and the bottles. Rose smiled and explained.

“You don’t remember? I sat next to him at Valdo’s party. He just about climbed into my lap that night. Maybe he just likes me. Maybe I smell nice or I look like someone he loved.” Rosemary explained and scratched lightly at the back of Eskel’s head. Jaskier put the dishes in the sink while thinking about it. Lambert loves Aiden so maybe Eskel had someone he fell for?

“He’s never mentioned anyone he liked, except Geralt. They used to ‘ do stuff’ . But maybe he really does just has a crush on you… He’s got a big heart. It’s locked away in fucking fort knox but it’s huge. Big ole lover boy. Maybe when we start recording again he can come sit with you.” Jaskier said and looked at the sleeping witcher. Even dozing Eskel had a smile on his face.

Maybe Eskel found someone else to entertain when no one else wanted to.

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#egg_company #fanfic #the witcher fanfic #witchers #witcher geralt #witcher lambert #witcher eskel #jaskier #geralt #yennefer #julian alfred pankratz #vesemir #witcher aiden

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the-rewatch-rewind · 11 months

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Long fun episode featuring my brother!

Transcript below the break

Hello and welcome back to The Rewatch Rewind! My name is Jane, and this is the podcast where I count down my top 40 most frequently rewatched movies in a 20-year period. Today I will be discussing number 20 on my list: Miramax, Jane Starz Productions, and Blessington Films Productions’ 2004 fantasy comedy Ella Enchanted, directed by Tommy O’Haver, written by Laurie Craig, Karen McCullah, Kirsten Smith, Jennifer Heath, and Michele J. Wolff, based on the book by Gail Carson Levine, and starring Anne Hathaway and Hugh Dancy.

Cursed with the “gift” of obedience in infancy, Ella (Anne Hathaway) becomes increasingly desperate to break free when her father remarries, and her step-mother and step-sisters (played by Joanna Lumley, Lucy Punch, and Jennifer Higham) take advantage of her forced compliance. Finally she runs away to find and confront the fairy who cursed her, and makes several friends along the way, including an elf named Slannen (Aiden McArdle), and, of course, a prince named Charmont (Hugh Dancy).

I didn’t see this movie in theaters, but I did see it the year it came out. I watched it once in 2004, seven times in 2005, once in 2006, once in 2008, once in 2009, once in 2012, once in 2013, twice in 2014, once in 2015, once in 2016, twice in 2019, and once in 2021. The vast majority of those viewings were with my brother Quinn, so I asked him to join me and help explain why we love this movie so much. We had a very long, very fun conversation that I hope you will enjoy.

Hi, Quinn!

Quinn

Hello!

Jane

Welcome to the Rewatch Rewind.

Quinn

How exciting to be here! I feel famous.

Jane

Yes, you've definitely been mentioned in many previous episodes.

Quinn

It's very fun for me as your sibling, having grown up with you and been in the background of a lot of these watches, I'm guessing, to hear some of your takes as as a grown person on on these movies. And just kind of revisiting, you know, it takes me back to a time and place as well hearing you talk about them. So this podcast is personally very fun for me.

Jane

Have there been any movies that you hadn’t seen?

Quinn

You know none that immediately come to mind. There's definitely movies I didn't watch nearly as much as you did. Like, I think there's a couple movies that I've heard your, your… you explaining on the podcast, your affinity for them is kind of the first time I've heard, like, your insights, and like all the, the nuances that you notice about each of the movies. But no, I'm pretty sure I've been familiar with all of the movies that you've talked about. Like Adam's Rib, like I maybe never watched it all the way from start to finish, but I've certainly seen the “like a sound part” and the the highlight parts of the movie that you noted in the podcast.

Jane

Yeah, cause I think Rosemary's told me there's a couple that she was not sure that she'd seen.

Quinn

OK, it was news to me that everyone hated Bringing up Baby. I think I probably did at some point know that, and then just like forgot overtime but…

Jane

Yeah, I feel like the rest of the family would never watch it with us.

Quinn

Well, no and I didn't… I I completely didn't realize that that I… it always stuck out to me as one of my favorite movies of that time and era, and I don't think that I was ever old enough when I watched it to really question the like logistics of it, or like the premise. So, but I always loved Bringing up Baby. I thought it was funny. And I think that it's funny that people were so irritated with Katharine Hepburn because I think she's hilarious in the whole thing.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, so I did remember, like I almost was like, oh, yeah, everyone I know hates this movie, I was like, oh no, Quinn likes this movie!

Quinn

Well, I'm glad to get the shout out. I really didn't realize it was a controversial stance that I had.

Jane

Yes, well, I know a lot of like old movie fans that I've met online were telling me, like, “Oh yeah, I love Bringing up Baby!” So it's not just us, but...

Quinn

Yeah, definitely. You talked about its reputation as being kind of like a standout screwball comedy. I think that definitely makes sense. I think that it doesn't get screwier than Bringing Up Baby.

Jane

Yeah, it is, it is THE screwball comedy. Yeah, so as far as the movie we're talking about today though, I think…

Quinn

Made many decades later.

Jane

Yes! I think that that's one that we definitely fell in love with together, that like a lot of the movies I've talked about so far are like specific to me watching and then you would kind of watch them with me. But I think with Ella Enchanted, we watched it together and grew to love it together, so that's why I wanted to have you on for this episode.

Quinn

Well, yeah, I definitely think that like looking at your list and like thinking about like oh what are some of the reasons why they ended up here? Like Ella Enchanted, I feel responsible for in ways that I might not feel responsible for other movies on this list.

Jane

Yes. Well, I think what's important for our listeners to understand is that when you were younger, like you're quite a bit younger than me. And when you were little, you really liked to, like, pick a movie and watch it a bunch, like, really close together. Is that fair?

Quinn

Oh yes, I had phase movies for sure. Like it was, I can think of particular movies that I would watch all the time and I could never tell you the reason why I stopped watching any of these movies. But there would be a period of time that I would just get really hot with a certain movie and that would be all I wanted to watch and then… I guess I would just get over it.

Jane

And I think that Ella Enchanted is the only one of those that has made it onto my list.

Quinn

Yes, I would say that's fair. And I, Ella Enchanted was for sure one of those movies, and I would actually say one of the things I for sure wanted to talk about today was the soundtrack for Ella Enchanted, I would say is has been a pillar of my music appreciation over the years and like that soundtrack is actually very good…

Jane

It's very good.

Quinn

…and I think introduced me to a lot of like older songs like classic songs that I otherwise wouldn't have known that I think was important in my developing a music taste as well.

Jane

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely a lot of covers of really famous songs. It's kind of weird that they chose to go that direction with, like, this fairy tale story like that they did more like rock songs. But it works really well. It was just kind of an odd choice when you, like, read the book, you don't necessarily think like, oh, this would be perfect to have like a Queen song.

Quinn

Well, yeah. And I was actually thinking about, you had mentioned fans of the book Ella Enchanted that the movie is adapted from tend to be pretty disappointed with this adaptation. And I agree that it's a pretty poor representation of the book, and I guess I've sort of reimagined the movie as more just like another like retelling of Cinderella and, and I guess, like kind of with Ella Enchanted flavor to it. Like there's a lot of the plot points that like kind of the core characterizations of some of the characters are borrowed from Ella Enchanted. But yeah, I mean, I think there's so many adaptations of fairy tales out there, and like I think that it's a very fun and ultimately like kind of visionary choice that they went with like sort of this like 70's rock theme for the soundtrack that sort of like didn't really have any other connection to the story, but just those were the songs that they went with. And I do know that like specifically with Somebody to Love, which I think is kind of the key musical moment in the movie that was really sort of driven from like, I guess Tommy O'Haver was working with Anne Hathaway on some kind of like more traditional, like folksy fairy tale song. And it didn't suit her voice as well as Somebody to Love. So I feel like it was also very driven by like who were the people making the movie and what their tastes were, which is, I also think probably why it works because it was driven from an organic place.

Jane

Yeah definitely. And I think that casting Anne Hathaway and then like using her, because like, at that point, she was mostly known for Princess Diaries, which I guess she still is known for Princess Diaries, but, like, kind of taking that sort of flavor of princess of, like, I guess it's not really like a modern story, Ella Enchanted, because it's sort of set in this…made-up fairy tale-ish place, but like definitely has, like modern sensibilities that I think that like putting… I mean, Anne Hathaway has also done period work that's been good. I mean, she won an Oscar, but like, I think that taking her like personality and more modern sensibilities and putting it into this fairy tale thing worked really well. And I think that if they had tried too hard, like again, like, recognizing that that song didn't fit her voice and tried too hard to push her in a different direction. I don't think the movie would have worked.

Quinn

Oh yes, Anne Hathaway is very much allowed to be Anne Hathaway in this movie and it's fantastic. I think one of my biggest takeaways from this movie in watching it relatively recently in preparation for this conversation was just how essential I feel it is in the Anne Hathaway story. Because, I mean, you see her, I think debuting in a lot of people's eyes, I think she was in a movie or two before Princess Diaries. Or was that her debut?

Jane

I think it might have been her debut.

Quinn

And I feel like you have definitely a star is born moment with Princess Diaries and she really I think emerged as someone to watch and as a a star that could like hold their own with Julie Andrews and and sort of have this kind of fun, relatable charm. Like I do see sort of like the Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrences that come after really sort of taking something from the Anne Hathaway School of being a young it girl actress. And I feel like it was Ella Enchanted that really I think the singing particularly introduced this new layer to her talent, you know, circle and now all of a sudden, Anne Hathaway can be in musicals and she's very good at singing. And I just think that it was a very important stepping stone to her becoming a superstar. And I mean, she won the Oscar for a musical. So I think you know I can see, you know, maybe she would have ended up in Les Mis regardless of Ella Enchanted, but I do think this movie really put her on the map. And it's funny because I don't think it's a like particularly well regarded movie in any sort of circles, but I have to think that it had some really important impacts on Anne Hathaway's career following.

Jane

Oh yeah, definitely. So had you read the book before seeing the movie, do you remember?

Quinn

I actually I don't remember, but if I had to guess, I would say I saw the movie first, and I think you knew the book and so were able to like give some context when I would see it early. And then I did eventually read the book and like it. It has been a long time since I've read the book though, so I cannot really recall what is different about the movie in the books now.

Jane

Yeah, I haven't read the book in a long time. I had read the book definitely before I saw the movie, and it was kind of like, I feel like the book was different than this. But like the, I mean the basic premise is the same, but it's different to the point that I, like you said, I kind of consider them two different things, and I can definitely see why fans of the book would think that the movie was a bad adaptation, but at the same time it's like, it's fun. They did their own thing with it and…

Quinn

Well, and Ella Enchanted is an adaptation too, which I think it for me is what makes it work.

Jane

Right.

Quinn

And like I have been thinking in a lot of like media that I've seen recently with elements of the Cinderella story in it of like, what are some of the things I like about each retelling? And like I I texted you out of the blue when I was watching Into the Wood randomly and I was like, I think the Cinderella in Into the Woods is my favorite all time Cinderella. So like I did also, when I watched it recently was kind of thinking about like what are my favorite interpretations of the Cinderella story like in Ella Enchanted and what are some of the things that I think work better in other retellings? It's a story that is just very familiar at this point.

Jane

Yeah, it's been told and retold time and time again, and I I know you haven't listened to the Enchanted episode yet, but we talked about Cinderella quite a bit in that episode, too, because it's sort of like the fairy tale. And I think it's so interesting in Ella Enchanted that they added this layer of her being cursed. And it's not just that she has a really mean stepmother and step sisters. But it's like, literally they could order her not to leave and she would not be able to leave.

Quinn

Yeah, the curse is awful. And I do think Cinderella in all tellings of the story is someone who is abused,

Jane

Right.

Quinn

and I think that that is a very important facet of the story, and I think you and I've talked a lot about how there's a lot of like dismissal of Cinderella as a character in many iterations of just like being this damsel, like this bad representation of, you know, femininity and you know, just waiting around for a man. But I think that the curse really illuminates just some of the cruelty that I think Cinderella in all versions of the story experiences. But it's they almost don't really emphasize the chores, and like the the working and the cinder part of Cinderella, and they even dropped that from her name. It's it's less about the labor that she's expected to do and more just that this curse really defines all aspects of her life and turns even people that are trying to help her against her. And yeah, it's a terrible, terrible curse. And I think that it's a very lighthearted movie, but it's very dark what she has to go through.

Jane

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it also… they do a good job of showing her sort of fighting the curse. And again, like you said, there's this perception that Cinderella is sort of a weaker, more passive character, but she really has always been, you know, very strong in being able to break away from her horrible situation. And I think they show Ella really doing everything she can to fight the curse and be like, OK, I'm gonna do what you told me, but I'm gonna do like, my own version of it. Like I'm gonna try and find loopholes in these orders so that I don't have to actually be under your thumb. And yeah, I I just, I think that's very well done.

Quinn

From a narrative perspective, it's a really powerful way to empower the character of of Ella and make her, I think, have people see more of themselves in her too, by giving her something to really fight against and be subversive against. And I think that that, I mean, it drives the plot of the movie. It's it's a good a good narrative tool.

Jane

Yeah and then there's the whole thing about that she's trying to fight for the rights of like elves and giants and other types of mystical beings who have been subjugated by the government. And I think that there's a little bit of an element of like sort of a savior complex in some of what she does, but I think that ultimately she feels a kinship with these people that are being forced to do things against their will because she's literally being forced to do things against her will all the time when people tell her to do stuff, she has to do it. And I think that that gives her a lot of empathy for, like giants being forced to do farm labor, and elves being forced to sing and dance. And I think they do a good job of showing that in the story. That like she feels like she kind of understands some of what they're going through and that's part of why she feels so strongly about trying to help them.

Quinn

Yeah, yeah, I think that it's also, I would love to see sort of the same premise of this story exist now and kind of retold now that we know a little bit more about how to be maybe a better ally or to sort of be a little bit more inclusive and less performative. Because I do think you know, in watching it recently, there were some things Ella said and did that I was like, ooh I don't know about that as you know, good activism. Like thinking specifically about how, when her and Prince Char returned to Lamia, which is where the palace is, you know where the Prince is there. He clearly has some kind of status and they're with an elf companion, their elf friend Slannen, and like they just he gets thrown out of the the palace and they stand there and don't seem to like, do anything to try to stop it. It's like, OK, well, we need to, like, act upon our convictions. So yeah, there's little things like that. And also like when Slannen the elf is trying to talk to Prince Charmont about working with his uncle to maybe allow elves to have other careers than being performers or entertainers cause he wants to be a lawyer and he's saying, “Well, can you petition your uncle the literal king for me to be a lawyer?” And he's just like, “I can't do that! That would be weird. It simply isn't done!” And so those are the types of things where the movie does let me down a little bit because I want to see, you know, some real advocacy and allyship. But I do think that you make such a good point about Ella feeling a kindred spirit to these marginalized peoples and really having that empathy and speaking up and saying something. I think that that is very clear throughout the movie and that is what allows her to be successful ultimately, is these relationships that she's built that she has built through empathy and through, you know, walking in people's shoes and hearing their stories and listening to them. So I think that there is a really beautiful message of of caring for the marginalized and advocating throughout the movie.

Jane

Yeah and I do think that there's they show that Prince Char, at least they show him as very like privileged and ignorant initially and that he, like again, he definitely could do more, but I'm thinking about like the scene when he listens to the giant leader and like, he's actually like, oh, wow, I didn't realize how bad things were. I'm going to try and make things better, and again, I don't know what he actually does, but he does become king, presumably at the end after his uncle dies. So hopefully he does….

Quinn

He does sing Elton John. That we do know.

Jane

Yes, so I mean obviously there's only one step between sing Elton John and free the marginalized people, so…

Quinn

He's on the right path.

Jane

Yeah, yes. So again, yes, you're right, it definitely could do more, but I also think that they have some good points. There's some almost there moments, I think.

Quinn

Oh yeah, and in in thinking about the times, like, I think that those some of those interactions and conversations were like stepping stones to, I think more fruitful ways to interact in those spaces and in those conversations, but it definitely, you know I I think that's a very presentist mindset to even look at some of those conversations critically, because you know, at that time those were conversations that were the most tolerant things got. So, you know, it's definitely have to make allowances for differences in in time. And I do have to say, I think talking about Prince Charmont as a character, I think he is one of the better, more developed Prince characters that you get in one of these Ella Enchanted Cinderella retellings, and I think Hugh Dancy really played like, I think, all of the acting in this movie is really phenomenal. I think that's a headline for me is that it's a very well acted movie, even though it's probably objectively pretty bad.

Jane

The script left something to be desired, but the actors did the best they could with it.

Quinn

Well, yeah, OK, let's just dive into it because I think that there is no better argument for “there are no small parts” than this movie because every single one of the actors in this movie like nails - and I don't mean like this in a casual like - nails their role. Like every performance I can think of, like one of my favorites to just like think about is Minnie Driver and like as Mandy who is like the fairy kind of governess of Ella and like she's not a very powerful fairy, so she's not that helpful in terms of her magical skill abilities, but like, she's kind of an ally to Ella in her abusive home and like, plays a role throughout the story. Very minimal and like the character of Mandy, I think I remember being pretty important in the Ella Enchanted book, and like they really, I think the writers really stripped this character of, like any kind of, like, notable personality. But Minnie Driver was just like, “Nuh-uh! Not my part!” And she just like, finds these like perfect comedic moments, and it's like she has like one line in a scene, and just like is so in character the whole time and is just like hysterical., completely matches like the attitude of just being like a little, like, sassy, and over it. And I'm like, that's just like one of the very bit parts. Like you've got like the the, I don't remember her name, but the actress who plays Olive, who's just like deranged and like all the, like, kleptomaniac stuff. And she's just like, “Ooh hoo hoo!” like, the whole time completely in character. Joanna Lumley is there, like, serving evil stepmother. Like she is not letting a moment go by without just like commanding the scene. Vivica A. Fox like comes in and does her like flashy, sassy little, like unhelpful cutaway scenes that are, like, again, all of these roles are pretty insignificant, don't have a lot of screen time, don't have much to work with, terrible script and like these actresses are just like, “This is the best role I've ever played in my life!” It's so much fun. It's like you talked a couple of podcasts ago about your favorite movies to watch being like ones where the actors are clearly having a good time. And like, I just feel like, you know, Anne Hathaway gives a fantastic performance and is committed and plays all the emotional highs and lows. She has the most terrible lines to say and she just like, gets through it like a professional. Hugh Dancy is like also having a good time, and it's like appropriately, like, kind of like charming and aloof. And like Slannen is memorable. Like he's got that, like, you know, conviction. And he has some very, like, silly, like, physical comedy moments as well. And then you've got like Jim, who's on Downton Abbey? Like playing this like ogre, who like has these dramatic cutaways while he's trying to eat people like just great performances all around.

Jane

Yeah, I agree. I think that you're right. That is a big part of why I enjoy this movie is that it's very apparent that everybody was just having fun. And you get that, especially with the big dance number at the end, which is just kind of random and like, why are they singing Don't Go Breaking My Heart at a wedding? Like…

Quinn

Ohh my gosh, it's so. It's fun though.

Jane

It's just, yes.

Quinn

Like I I've never questioned… Like it's a weird song choice, but I'm just, that is one of the most joyful, perfect finales to a movie that I've ever seen, like where everyone gets a little bit of something to do. You like, get that fun, like end credits. Here's everyone's final bow, and it's just like a ton of fun.

Jane

Yeah, it's just unfortunate that Lucy Punch. Is that her name?

Quinn

Oh yes.

Jane

She doesn't get to be in it because-

Quinn

Well, and I just realized I didn't mention her performance, but I feel like it deserves its own subsection. So Lucy Punch, who plays Hattie, the step sister of Ella, the mean stepsister, I…. that is my all time favorite interpretation of the evil stepsister character, because Hattie is just like, very impetuous, but she is dangerous and she, like, serves a role in the story that actually, you know, like her ratting out Ella is what leads to some of the highest stakes in the story eventually, s I do feel like so often the step sisters are really just like bit characters that don't really have much to do other than like be mean to Cinderella in like one or two scenes. And I feel like she both took that sort of like superfluous, frivolous quality that the step sisters have and like, did that, but also, like, they did find a way to work her way into the plot. She had a bit of menace and a bit of intelligence that she was able to use to try to achieve her own goals. And then I think has a great, like, humiliating downfall. And this is made all the better by the fact that Lucy Punch is like this was her dream role to play a step sister. And be this character and like she is a step sister in Into the Woods and in something else, I'm pretty sure.

Jane

I feel like she's played Cinderella's step sister at least four times.

Quinn

Yes. And like that was her dream role and this actress is just like having the best time being this character. Like it totally shows and I think that Hattie is like a standout character and performance throughout the entire thing as well. And it is a shame that she is not in the finale, but it's because of a deleted scene. And you can see the deleted scene if you get the DVD.

Jane

Yes, which I think is a good way to transition into why we have seen this movie so many times because yes, it is fun. And yes, we would watch it a bunch probably normally anyway, but the reason that we have watched it quite this many times is because we had the DVD and we discovered how delightful the audio commentary is. And I didn't keep track of how many times I watched it with or without commentary. But I would say that more than half of the times I watched it were with commentary.

Quinn

Yes, I mean, I think it became… you could have almost kept track of this movie two different ways, like watching it in its original form and watching it with commentary, because I think you we went to either at different times when we were looking for different things in a viewing experience.

Jane

Yeah, but I would, I think that…that even if I counted them separately, the commentary watching would be enough to be in my Top 40.

Quinn

You know, I I was gonna say I Jane mentioned this episode. You mentioned it to me. And I kept thinking you were going to schedule it and schedule it. And I'm like, wow, Ella Enchanted really made it far up this list because it's been several weeks now. It's pretty deep in the ranking.

Jane

Yeah, it's #20 so it's in the top half.

Quinn

Yeah. Top half. I'm stunned.

Jane

Yes, but yeah, so I don't remember how many times I'd seen it just normally before we discovered the commentary. But the commentary is just… it just adds a whole other level and like one of the things that you said earlier that made me think of it was when you were talking about Vivica A Fox being fabulous. And like, Anne Hathaway mentions in the commentary the scene when she's tied up to a tree and Lucinda shows up and she's like, oh, I'm going to help rescue you. And she's like, no, I want to be chained to this tree so I don't have to kill Char. And in the commentary, Anne Hathaway says that, like Vivica A Fox was so excited to do that scene. And she, Anne, was kind of like, “I don't know. I don't really like the lines” and Vivica’s like, “Oh, I'm not gonna say the lines. But we're gonna have fun!”

Quinn

Yes, one of an Ella Enchanted moment that I think about probably most of any other, although there's so many, is like right after she sets her free, Vivica A. Fox, is just standing in this, like, fabulous pose and she's like, “Well, aren't I fabulous?” while Ella is just like, “This is terrible! This is not what I wanted!” It's just like a fabulous moment of just, like, completely not taking in any of your surroundings. You're the main character, the story is you, forget about everybody else, forget whose movie it. It's, it's Vivica A Fox. It's just, it's fabulous. But yes, the commentary which it features, Anne Hathaway and Hugh Dancy. So the two romantic leads of the movie and Tommy O’Haver, who is the director, he's like maybe the one you don't know, but if you don't know him you should. They just narrate the whole movie and it is absolutely hysterical, like the tone that these three have together is great. It's as if they're the best friends. They probably haven't spoken to each other in a decade now, which makes me sad because in my mind they hang out every day and commentate on things. Like they just have great chemistry. You can tell all three of them had a lot of fun making the movie and they're just like having a good time, and you can really you feel like you were there with them, like making this ridiculous movie that really wasn't that good, but damn it, they worked hard.

Jane

Yeah and it's like it's exactly what you would want from audio commentary, I think, which is like behind the scenes trivia because they have quite a bit of that. And then just like some like tea, like a little bit, not a lot of tea, but just like sort of like, oh, this didn't work very well or like, I was actually really miserable this day or something like that.

Quinn

Well, they talk about like, little like spats they had with each other, but it's like, “Oh yeah, we got in a fight about that that day. I felt very this way” like it's it's all like it clearly happened like over a year ago.

Jane

Yeah, so there's that. But then just also like. Each one of them has a different thing that they kind of focus on more, which is nice that like they're not just kind of saying the same thing because like Hugh Dancy talks a lot about, like the stunt people. And like he was friends with them. And then Anne Hathaway- This is another thing, too, is like the commentary, like, really shows you how and how Anne Hathaway was like, set up to be super successful in Hollywood because she, like, remembers everybody's name, everybody who worked on this, like even like all the like, minor crew people and she's just like, yeah, this person did a great job and she, like, seems very like gracious. And like she actually cares, but is also very good at networking. And I think that that's exactly what you have to be to be like successful and someone that people like.

Quinn

Well, and you really get a sense of Anne Hathaway's work ethic, too.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Quinn

Which I think very much it comes through in the commentary where you just, like, get a sense of, like, all the things that she's thinking about. You hear a lot of the things that she's insecure about, and just like all of the the dynamics of being the Anne Hathaway of of this movie, being a movie star, being the the center of attention, both like in the internal world of the movie and in the external world of making the movie and in the even more external world of like marketing the movie and being the star.

Jane

Right.

Quinn

Like it's a very actually like I think nuanced character study of Anne Hathaway listening to the commentary while being very fun.

Jane

Yeah, yeah. And it's just like she never comes across as like, “Yes, I'm the star and I'm super famous and everyone should love me!” It's kind of like, “Yes, I'm putting in the work and I like really thought about this character and I really wanted to do a good job in this movie and I think everyone else worked really hard on it too.” And like definitely giving credit where credit is due and not really being super like... I mean obviously she talks about her own experiences, but not being super self-centered and like like everyone should be talking about me right now.

Quinn

And I think all three of the commentators really had that posture because Anne Hathaway does a great job of like mentioning like the lighting in this scene is beautiful and done by this person, that tailor was a tailor who works in Ireland. But I also think that like Hugh Dancy talks a lot about the stuntmen and like it's clear that he was like, legitimately really good friends with them, like during filming and would hang out with them. And like I think Tommy O’Haver also really like spotlights you know, actors and other people that worked on the movie. Like, I think you listen to it and it's like not like just them listing the credits, but it's like interesting seeing all of the different people that they each had to work with and spent time with. And like, how interesting it is just to put all these different people with all these different specialties in the same project together and just like stunt men interacting with movie stars and interacting with directors, interacting with lighting designers, interacting with other actors, it's all just very interesting to hear about the interactions that went into making the movie.

Jane

Yeah, it really highlights which I think I mean is probably true of pretty much every movie is that, like, just how interactive making a movie is, and just like what a collaborative effort it is. And it's not just like, oh, there's a few people involved and then there's, like, the background people that kind of help a little bit. It's like everybody really has to work together and like that's probably obvious to people who have made movies before. But I think when you're in the audience, you might not necessarily realize, I mean you see the long credits at the end, but just like how many people are involved in bringing this together and just how much they have to work together and trust each other to do their jobs. And I think that the Ella Enchanted commentary was kind of one of my first glimpses into just exactly what that looked like. And I think that that's part of what has like led me to be further interested in like, I'm not saying like I'm a filmmaker, but just sort of finding out a little bit more of the behind the scenes filmmaker stuff was really interesting to me without it feeling like, OK, now you're sitting down to a Filmmaking 101 class it it's all very fun the way they present it, but just like it gets you thinking of like, wow, there's so many people who work on movies that you never see who are really crucial to the process, and I really like that aspect of it and that they're definitely sure to give people as much credit as they can and not like you said, not listing the credits, just saying like, oh, this scene was really this person, like, really made it by doing their job kind of thing. And yeah, I really like that.

Quinn

Yeah, and I think lots of DVD features have commentary on them, and so we've talked a lot about this commentary and it kind of leads to the question like what do you get from this commentary that like maybe you don't get in other movies with commentary? Cause I can't imagine there's another one on your list that like truly, you couldn't think of without the commentary which Ella Enchanted, I mean, it's inextricable from why you've watched this movie so many times. You wouldn't have watched this movie so many times without this commentary. I think it has all of these great things we've been talking about how deep it is, but it's also very funny.

Jane

Yes.

Quinn

And I feel like, you know, we quote and we've Mandela effected quotes from this commentary where like they don't actually say what we have ended up quoting years later, but like we quote this commentary so much to each other. Like probably the most quotable moment is like there's a point where Ella is supposed to in the movie like end up stopped in the middle of the road and there's like a horse drawn carriage that’s going to come and roll her over and she can't move because she's been ordered to stay because the Prince is going back to get the purse that she was carrying with her. And like they just describe how the line was originally, “MY SATCHEL!!!” when she realizes that she doesn't have it, and then the Prince is like, “Wait right there. I'll go get it.” And they're like, we had to cut that because we couldn't say it without laughing and they were like, then we I think we said, well, where's my satchel? We changed mine to where's my satchel and we still couldn't do it. S then in the movie is like, “Where's my purse?” is what she ends up saying. But like the “MY SATCHEL!” quote like, it's just the whole commentary is stuff like that. My other one of my other favorites, I can't even say things are above the other because it's all amazing. It's like, I guess all the sets had these different like almonds for Prince Char?

Jane

Yeah, all the, the castle sets had these dishes of candied almonds.

Quinn

Yeah, and it was just like this weird character study. And they're like, we want everyone in the Kingdom to enjoy my almonds! Like that Prince Char has his, like, favorite almonds. It's like this random detail that, like, you never would notice. There's just so many quotable moments, and like by all of them, all three of them really have great, hysterical little one liners.

Jane

Yeah, I was struggling to come up with a quote to use at the end of last episode because I was like all the good quotes are in the commentary. Yeah, cause the my satchel thing in particular, I feel like, I can't hear the word satchel without thinking of that, and sometimes I just think of it randomly. Just like “MY SATCHEL!!!”

Quinn

Yeah and I also think one of the things that we have not yet talked about that I think the commentary does a good job of highlighting too, is that I love the costuming for that movie. I think that the costuming is perfect and they do a great job of talking about the different costumes, and you notice that characters have like signature colors, which I'm always, I don't know. I always really like that in movies when characters have signature colors. I think it's fun. And I I like that what that does visually is kind of like builds like a recognition for a certain character and seeing what color they're wearing, but like, I think it's cool. Like the characters have signature colors. I think the costumes are beautiful and well done, and the commentary does a good job of pointing out when that's the case. I think that Ella Enchanted is such a weird world and like you hear about all the different weird ways that this weird world was created together. But I do think it works surprisingly well like all told. You know, having these like kind of 70s-80s musical influences with kind of this like modern sensibility and the humor with like, costume, that kind of blended old and new with the signature colors, like something whimsical that pops like it all kind of like doesn't make sense in a way that makes sense.

Jane

Yeah, I think that the world is kind of similar to the world of Shrek in a way? Like, I think Shrek has a lot of those like… it's like sort of a medieval world, but also there's a lot of modern jokes. And I think that Hercules kind of does that too, of like being like set in the past, but also with these very modern jokes. And I think that was just like a really big thing in like the late 90s/early 2000s to kind of make that sort of world? And they really ran with it and Ella Enchanted. I think they really just leaned into, like, we're going to make this weird. And yeah, it works so much better than you would think it would on paper, if just like, yeah so it's like kind of medieval castle fairy tale but also modern, but also like from a few decades ago, and we're just going to throw all those things together. And yeah, it just really works. And I do agree that the costuming really helps with that because the costumes are, like sort of whimsical, but also like very focused on like the characters and like Ella’s are a lot more practical than like the step-sisters have, like the most ridiculous costumes, especially at the end.

Quinn

Shout out to Hattie’s ring in the ball scene.

Jane

It is like…her ring is like as big as her hand.

Quinn

It is so ridiculous and so it's just perfect.

Jane

Giant orange.

Quinn

And I mean, I love the the fairies, like, especially like Lucinda, like has a very, I would say modern, like it's a very costumey, like think like, sexy fairy at Halloween outfit, but it's like Nope, it works. Let's go for it. And I think also having Heidi Klum in the movie helps with its fashion appeal.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Quinn

Heidi Klum is a giant.

Jane

I wonder if they consulted her, if like, she was a costume consultant too.

Quinn

I also have to say that we have not talked at all about Cary Elwes yet.

Jane

Oh yeah! Quinn

And I love his performance, talking about performances, he is clearly having a marvelous time. And I also love kind of the meta connection to Princess Bride because I do also think that there are some elements of, like it's like almost like a more modern frenetic world than Princess Bride is, but there's like, I think they serve as like similar kinds of movies, at least on paper.

Jane

Yeah, it does have kind of a similar tone to that. It doesn't have nearly as witty of dialogue as Princess Bride, but it definitely has like, a similar like world feel. Yeah, I definitely see what you’re saying.

Quinn

Like you could imagine, some of the characters interacting, so I think it's very… there's a fun parallel that like he's sort of in the story as more the Humperdinck character than, you know, being the romantic lead ultimately that he is in Princess Bride.

Jane

And he he was like just… He's so good, like, especially because like, as his character progresses. Like earlier in the movie, he's just sort of, like, vaguely menacing. And by the end, he's, like, completely like… maniacal laughing, just like going completely overboard with, like, I've just completely lost my mind! And he does that so well, like-

Quinn

And that's you can tell that's a choice that he made as an actor because you could have very easily played all of that very flat and probably not gotten the effect like you get that from his performance is what really gives you that story.

Jane

Yes. Oh my gosh I love the scene when he, after Hattie, has told him that Ella has to do whatever she's told, and he's, like, making her do the hokey pokey and all this stuff. But he's doing the most ridiculous dance in the background and it's like you're trying to make her look silly, but you look way sillier and it's so good.

Quinn

Yeah, like just the the gleeful evil of of it all. Yeah, it's it's really, it's fantastic acting. I'm telling- like, up, up, down, anywhere you look in this movie: well acted.

Jane

Yeah, 100% of the time. And then he has a snake sidekick. Which is very like reminiscent of a lot of Disney villains - which is part of why I always think this movie is Disney, but it's not Disney - but I think that they did a really good job with that snake. I guess originally they were going to have like an animatronic puppet and they just couldn't get it to work so they ended up-

Quinn

Can you imagine how silly that would have looked? Like, I think them talking about their pathway to arriving at the conclusion that this snake had to be CGI is very funny in the commentary.

Jane

Yes, yes. Because it's like, um yeah, no, that wouldn't have worked. So they ended up with a CGI snake. And I think it looks good.

Quinn

It's very well done. It's fantastic and I think the the actor, I mean it's mostly a voice performance, but the acting is very good with Heston as well.

Jane

Yeah! Yeah , so I think that and that really adds to carry out was his character. What is his name? Edgar?

Quinn

Edgar, who is the evil uncle. Sorry if we haven't said that. Yes, he is the king, who is the uncle of Prince Charmont, who is Hugh Dancy.

Jane

And I think like the uncle killed the father?

Quinn

Yes.

Jane

It's like a little, little Hamlet moment.

Quinn

It’s kind of – a criticism: It's kind of thrown together. It's like, OK, I guess he killed the father. Like I want to see him killing the father. I wanna see the blood on his hands!

Jane

And then he's trying to kill Char also, I'm not exactly sure why…

Quinn

It's kind of Lion King action like…

Jane

Because Char was going to be coronated. Yes!

Quinn

So I guess he was like kind of a Regent ruler because the dad had been killed and and the dad was much more, the king was much more tolerant of other life groups like ogres and elves, and then Edgar becoming the king, he made a lot of these like species segregationist policies so...

Jane

Yeah

Quinn

It's presumed that with Ella next to the throne and with Char being a much more morally upright person that with Edgar's passing and his coronation, things went right in Frell or Lamia or whatever the kingdom's name is, because Ella’s from Frell and Lamias where the castle is. I don't know what the whole common is called. Andalasia.

Jane

[laughs] Probably. It's also really interesting how they decided that, like the people from Lamia would have English accents, and the people from Frell would have American accents, and then they cast like mainly American people to be the Lamia people and mainly British people to be the Frell people.

Quinn

It was chaotic what was going on with the accents.

Jane

Yeah so people had to do different accents. I mean not entirely, cause like Hugh Dancy is actually English and had his normal accent. Anne Hathaway had her normal accent, but like, just like Minnie Driver had to do an American accent.

Quinn

And that one notable fairy who has that bit part does like a New York accent in in Lamia, but she was like Irish.

Jane

Yeah, well, yeah. And the person who plays Ella's mom was actually British or Irish or something, and…

Quinn

[New York accent] Finding her would be something terrible.

Jane

[laughs] Yeah.

Quinn

So many good lines!

Jane

There's some, there's some very strange accents going on, but it's fine. It works.

Quinn

Also Parminder Nagra is there.

Jane

Oh yeah.

Quinn

And she is honestly not one of the more memorable performances, but she does a really good job!

Jane

It's really upsetting, like, that's like one criticism that I have: I would really like to have seen another scene with Parminder Nagra's character at the end like…

Quinn

It's really stuck in there, like the resolution of that storyline with like like it- you can tell they like there was probably some scheduling problem of like her filming ER or something because like, it is weird. Like Areida is Ella's best friend. And and like they set up their characters and Ella actually like, really like screws her over because of the curse.

Jane

Yeah, it's a heartbreaking scene.

Quinn

It's a really sad scene and then I think that for whatever reason, they couldn't film any better resolution to that story other than like she just comes to the wedding and like, there's a cutaway scene where she's waving to the carriage and just goes, “Good luck, Ella!”

Jane

And you know she was waving at nothing.

Quinn

And yeah, like, there's no way those women were in the same room when that happened.

Jane

Yeah, I mean, she is in the room at the wedding, like with her, and they cause she's part of the Don't Go Breaking My Heart

Quinn

Yeah, but like I that could have been filmed in post too, that cutaway shot.

Jane

That is true. Um, yeah so I think they really needed a scene where Ella explained what had happened.

Quinn

And like you assume that they were, you know, they healed the friendship, and they were in a good place. But like, they never said that.

Jane

Yeah, it's like, I mean, I get that they put that in there to show just like how bad, because that kind of was what pushed Ella over the edge of like, I guess I just have to live with this curse to being like, no, I need to get rid of this because her stepmother made her tell her best friend, like, “I could never be friends with you, and you suck, go away” basically.

Quinn

And yeah, I really, I think if it was a better script or like a better story, like the movie version, I don't really remember like how it happened in the book, but for the movie world that was created, I think involving Areida in some of the machinations at the end to, like take down Edgar would have, really fixed a lot of the, like narrative hole that is left with that storyline, like just to have Areida like give her some marginal role even where like she's for some reason there and can like help them do one thing like in the sequence to take down Edgar. Like just plug her in somewhere. And I think that would have been really nice to like have like her helping the cause and like reestablishing their relationship and then like then maybe you don't really need a final scene between them. You can just kind of use what you have at the end and be like, yeah, they figured it out.

Jane

Yeah, I agree that definitely would have been a really good way to do it, but…

Quinn

I mean, they have Heidi Klum in the end part like...

Jane

Yeah, yeah. Because she and Slannen have a thing.

Quinn

Yeah, they get together, which is there's a lot of questions I have, but it's fine.

Jane

Yeah, but I think that that's really, I mean, no offense to the writers, but I think there were like 5 writers on this movie, and like I don't know that they had a cohesive idea of what they were going to do with it. I think it was kind of like, OK, there's this really popular book and this really popular actress that we can write a thing for.

Quinn

And doing movies like this is very popular.

Jane

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, this is the time to do this sort of modernized but not fairy tale type thing. And we're just going to throw it together and hope for the best. And I think that it does work a lot better than it had any right to on paper, based on the dialogue and the script. And they talk about that a little bit in the commentary. They're like, very gracious about it, but there's certain moments where they're like, “Yeah, I never really liked this line,” or, like, “I never really felt like I said this right.”

Quinn

I think they're pretty upfront with saying the lines that they had issues with saying.

Jane

Yeah, but they're not, they're not gonna, say like, “Oh this whole script was trash.”

Quinn

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, in fairness, there's a couple funny, like “My tongue itches” is funny.

Jane

That is true. Yeah, there's some good lines in the actual script, but I think overall that's really the weak point. And just like the fact that they were able to get these amazing actors and some of them are like super famous, others I like, haven't really seen in anything else.

Quinn

Eric Idle is in the movie also.

Jane

Oh, I forgot about him!

Quinn

See, like you just keep thinking of people. There's a lot of performances.

Jane

And I think that they all just showed up and were like, “We're gonna have fun. We're gonna make this movie.” And it just really comes together in a very entertaining way.

Quinn

I do think also what helps is that the characters they're playing are all kind of archetypes. What talented actors are able to do, they're able to take these archetypal characters and sort of have an interpretation of them kind of ready to go. And so I'm, I'm also kind of thinking like, that's these are just good professional actors that like these are not like tough characters. They're just like they're ones that you can really like sink into and, like, get- they're, they're like, really meaty roles that like a good actor, will know what to do with.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, that's a good way of putting it. So yeah, so it's just it's just fun entertainment, but again, it just becomes like so much more fun and entertaining when you have the commentary on and you just hear them chatting with each other about their memories of making this movie and the good and the bad and the ugly.

Quinn

And if you like podcasts, I imagine you'll like the commentary because it it really does, I think feel like you're just sitting around the table with friends or sitting on the couch watching the movie with, you know, the friends or like people that were making the movie. Like it's a a really good aura that the commentary has. I feel like and again and thinking about like what does the commentary have that other commentaries don't? Like I think a lot of other commentaries are very cold and very like stale almost and like they come in for these very like discrete parts and they'll say, I did want to mention when we were watching this that this blah blah blah. And then they'll stop and they'll go back to the movie. Like, this is just this continual conversation that goes throughout the movie pretty much.

Jane

Yeah, I think a lot of times, especially when the commentary just has the director, they can get very technical with like just saying, like explaining how each shot was set up. And just like, I mean some of that is very interesting, but I think it almost feels like you're like going to film school or something or like you're sitting in a lecture and I definitely tend to prefer the ones that have multiple people and especially like, I mean, I don't want to say like we only care about the actors, but I think actors know how to perform better than directors do a lot of the time, and so they know how to be entertaining. I would say Ella Enchanted is like far and away my favorite, but there's a few others, like I talked about the Mary Poppins one. And I think that one is really fun for different reasons, because they're looking back with like 40 years of distance. But it's the same sort of thing of like they're interacting with each other and reminiscing together. And I think that's a lot more interesting than just hearing one person sort of give you a lecture about how this movie came together.

Quinn

Well, yeah, and what the actors do, and I mean that's what they are when you're watching the movie, they are the audiences perspective, like into the world of the movie and, and so I think that you you feel like, you know, actors in a way that you don't feel like you know directors or people that are not on camera. And so, yeah, I think they're very practiced at bringing that perspective to an audience and sort of serving as that messenger or the gateway that an audience has to a story. And then I think to Tommy O’Haver’s credit. I think he's very charismatic. And so you feel like you know him or you like, get to know him through the course of the commentary. There's many directors whose commentary I've seen that I didn't really get a sense of who they were as people, but I feel like you get to know Tommy O’Haver and you like him.

Jane

Yeah, I think that he, like, definitely takes his work seriously, but I think he doesn't think too highly of himself. I think a lot of directors have really big egos, which I think to a certain extent you have to for that job because you have to be in charge and you have to like get people to listen to you and so you have to think relatively highly of yourself. Otherwise you're gonna be like, “Well or- or not or whatever.” And you can't do that when you're a director. But I think that with Tommy O'Haver, he's like, he wants people to have fun on his sets, I think. And he's like, very proud of his work on this movie, clearly. But he's also, like, very gracious to the stars that he's talking to and like, very quick to point out when they did a good job, which I think they're more hesitant to do, like they don't want to toot their own horns as much. And so he's like, very much like, saying, “Wow, you guys were really great to work with and you did such a good job too.” And like that, they were exactly what he wanted for this movie. And I think that really helps make the commentary just seem a lot more fun, too, is that he's not being like, “I made this movie and I was so great.” It was like, “Thank you guys for doing such a good job.” and all of that, so I really like that.

Quinn

Yeah, he's he seems like- I would, I would be an actor or, like, work on a movie that he was the director for. I feel like he would be a good person to work with. And yeah, I do, it's interesting that you note that they the actors do I feel like have a hard time like tooting their own horn and like one of the main things that I feel like Anne Hathaway is comfortable like talking about is like her physical appearance. And like, she'll be like, “Oh, my extensions look so good at that point.” And I do feel like that's something that, like you think about, like the Harvey Weinstein of it all and like just a lot of some of the really, like, dark things about Hollywood and like, how sad that is that like, that's what she felt like, you know, those were some of the ways that she could, like, step into her own and, like, talk positively about herself. And then you think about like all other things that were going on like in the industry at large. I also think it's really great to hear like, a man complementing like the female star of the movie, who was like indisputably the star of the movie. And again, another good example of like female led projects like they're this idea that they're not as successful. It’s like here is another like- that's something I love about this movie, that it is a female led movie, that it's like, yeah, Anne Hathaway is perfectly capable of carrying a movie on her own shoulders.

Jane

Yeah, and it's interesting too that like the director doesn't at any point that I recall in the commentary. Maybe, he says, like… Because I do think like Anne Hathaway does complement her own appearance, she all is also very critical of it.

Quinn

Well, and and that's also true too. I mean just I think that's sort of where I was going, too and tying in like some of the larger cultural things, she is very critical of her appearance at times too.

Jane

One of my favorite parts though, is when she's like watching herself perform and she's, like, cringing. And they're like, “What are you..? And she's like, “Oh, it’s just a tooth thing.”

Quinn

Well, they're in the middle of complementing the lighting in the scene, and they're just like, “Oh, this lighting is so beautiful” and it is really beautiful. It's like flickering flames that of course, were, like, done digitally, but it looks very real and they're complimenting it and then and and Hathaway just goes, “Eugh!” And then then she's just like, “Sorry, it was a tooth thing.”

Jane

Yeah, but I think that what I was gonna say is I don't remember at any point, I don't think he ever really talks about her appearance other than to say, like, “Oh you look fine” when she's criticizing herself. I think that he's way more focused on her work and her her performance and like how dedicated she was and like she was in basically every scene and that she had to work really hard and he really gives her a lot of credit for that. And I think that's, like you were saying, a big problem in Hollywood is that a lot of actresses like you focus more on their appearance and what they're wearing and all this stuff. And I think it’s really great to see a male director recognizing that his female star really put in a lot of work and did a lot of stuff besides, just like looking pretty in this movie. And that's yeah, it's really great to hear that, especially on a movie that was produced by Harvey Weinstein.

Quinn

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's very true. And I just, I think. We've already spoken a little bit about this, but like, Anne Hathaway is just such a treasure, I think, like, and it's been very interesting, and like I I mentioned her in the same sentence with like Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone earlier in this conversation. And like, just thinking about, like, what Anne Hathaway's trajectory has been, and then what those actresses’ trajectories have been where I think there there was, you know, generally good favor around Anne Hathaway for a long time. And then, like all of a sudden kind of around the time of her Oscar win, people kind of soured on her and felt that she really was sort of distasteful. And then just like having her image kind of come back around from there and now I think she has a very like, you know, people have a lot of, like, nostalgic affection for her being in all these beloved classics like Princess Diaries and Devil Wears Prada and Ella Enchanted. But then she's also, you know, an Oscar winner and like, taken very seriously, like, I think she's kind of reached that, like, you know, prime part of her career where she's been through all of these things. And we've seen actresses like Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence kind of on a delayed timeline, go through some of these same things like, I just think that Anne Hathaway, I really have a lot of respect and appreciation for all of the things that she's weathered. Being a young woman in Hollywood and having to kind of- that she was in these beloved projects. She's had periods of being very well loved, periods of being kind of hated and has sort of weathered the storms and has continued to to work and deliver really phenomenal performances, I just- I think she's such a gift and I'm glad that she's still out there kicking ass and making amazing movies. Like I love Ocean's 8, that's fairly recent, and I think that she still has some very exciting career moves left. I'm- I can't wait to see her as she continues.

Jane

Yeah, and I think it's really interesting because she was getting a lot of hate for a while, for like no really good reason. Like, I don't feel like anyone could point to like something horrible that she said or did. Like maybe she like said something that was maybe a little bit questionable, but like, I think now people are coming around to being more like, you know, she was never actually terrible. People were just mad at her for being a successful woman like, cause, I mean, some people like they said something super racist or something or like that was interpreted in a bad way. But I don't even know that anyone's been able to point to something like that.

Quinn

I think probably the thing that I heard or that that's been on in the news cycle was the Witches movie that she was in and sort of depicting people with limb differences as like witches and, there was some backlash to the way that the witches were portrayed and how that looked similarly to people with limb differences and sort of othered people with limb differences, or at least this was some criticism of that movie. And I thought that Anne Hathaway had a really, um… I was impressed with the apology that she offered and she made, I thought, a really powerful, well thought out statement that just said, “I didn't really do my homework fully here and this is upsetting because I upset people that I did not want to upset” and it owned the mistake, and just you know, said that she would be more careful moving forward and you know, like, I just think that's something that I appreciate someone that can stand up and apologize when they did something not fully thought out.

Jane

Yeah. Well, and I don't remember hearing anything about that, but like the Witches was based on a novel by Raold Dahl, whose prejudices are well known at this point.

Quinn

Yeah, so I I think it's… I don't think that Anne Hathaway should be held accountable for like production decisions that were probably outside of her control, but she still did take accountability. And I thought in a way that- I appreciated the thoughtfulness of the statement I ended up reading.

Jane

Yeah, I think that she's always been very good about responding to things which, like, maybe she just has a really good PR team. But like, she definitely always knows how to, like, stand up for herself when she needs to, but then also, you know, not just double down when she makes mistakes. And I think that's really great. I know she was like a really big advocate for legalizing gay marriage and things like that. Like, she's really been somewhat of an activist in terms of issues that she really cares about, which I think is great. She's just a really… seems like a really good role model to be a movie star. I mean, obviously she's not perfect. I don't think that anyone has a right to expect her to be perfect, but I did really appreciate that, like when Ocean's 8 came out and everybody was like, “Wow, Anne Hathaway is like, the best part of this movie that is a great movie and has a lot of great parts.” And then some people were like, “Yeah, she's the best part of every movie she's in. Why has it taken you this long to notice?” Like people kind of coming back around to being like, “Yeah, she's always been good. Why did we hate her?”

Quinn

Well, and I think it's fabulous because in that movie she plays an actress who you kind of think is going to be like, obnoxious and not really that great. And then she ends up being, like, essential to the con and…

Jane

Yes, I love that. And like I kind of wish that they had done something like that in Ella Enchanted with Parminder Nagra's character.

Quinn

Right.

Jane

Like, that's what they needed to do is like bring her back and have her be like, “Yeah, OK, you really hurt me. But now I'm gonna help you” kind of thing. Yeah.

Quinn

Well, yeah. And I mean, I guess I do feel like you tend to have things for actors and actresses that are older. You know, I think of a lot of your actor obsessions being, you know, people from a bygone era that were dead before you were born. I feel like Anne Hathaway has been an actress that sort of we've grown up with that we've sort of seen come of age - we remember a time before Anne Hathaway and saw her rise - that you've really enjoyed. And I think have looked at as like I would say, I think you're a particular fan of Anne Hathaway. And like I I think that that's that's interesting, and I'm curious if… you've probably already described many of the things that maybe have drawn you to her more so than like other actors of her generation.

Jane

Yeah, I would definitely… I mean, I'm sure there's bigger Anne Hathaway fans than me, I'm not like her number one fan or anything, but definitely she's one of the actors that I've been more of a fan of. And like, she's less than 10 years older than me, so she’s like pretty close to my generation and I think that a lot of it is that, like, she's an Old Hollywood fan, like she has a lot of those sensibilities of, like, the Old Hollywood actors. And I think that that is something that I've picked up on even without like that consciously being why I like her. But I do think that that has helped. That like she is definitely very modern, but in a way that takes things I liked about the older Hollywood style. Like I think she probably would say that she's more of a method actor and a lot of the actors I like are kind of before that became the norm. But like, I think she's still very much the like, get up there, say the lines and think about that rather than just being like, “I'm going to fully embody this character!” which is something that kind of irritates me about actors sometimes as being like, “I'm just becoming this person now.” It's like, I think she she's got that sort of line between herself and her characters that a lot of the like, more like modern stars… I mean, I'm, I know there's modern actors who are great, but I think the like movie star leading role people kind of rub me the wrong way sometimes. But like I think that she has similarities to like the old Hollywood stars that I'm a fan of, and sort of bridges that gap into the modern era, if that makes any sense? I truly don't know if I’m explaining this-

Quinn

I think that's all really interesting and I think makes a lot of sense. I think that's a cool observation and I'm just thinking tying it back to Ella Enchanted, I was thinking the last time I watched it specifically, I was like, what is different about Ella from Princess Mia? Like where… where are the lines there? And in truth, I think that there's a lot that's similar about Princess Mia and about Ella. And like I think that, yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I know that you really love like Cary Grant, for example, who I think Cary Grant has range and has performances that it's very transformative between roles, but he does have a brand and he has a style and like a lot of movies, it's like here's like a specific character, like this one's a scientist, this one's a teacher, this one's a, a that and we're just going to do the Cary Grant version of like that profession or like that. Like we're going to give him a few boundaries to work with that are like character defining traits, but then he's going to bring the Cary Grant brand to it. And they feel like that's almost what the transition from Princess Mia to Ella Enchanted is, is it's like, we're going to change the the formation of these characters in a little bit of different ways, and like I I notice like the Princess Mia, Lily friendship is kind of flipped in Ella Enchanted, and like Arieda is much more like Mia, and Ella is much more like Lily in that dynamic and like that, the fact that they're activists and like going to, like protests and stuff, I feel like kind of mirrors each other. But it's very much Anne Hathaway bringing the Anne Hathaway brand to each of those characters, and like they're both very Anne Hathaway. Like, you get her as a star, you get the brand of her, you get the identity of her while she's in kind of just these different formations of like, that protagonist character that leads the movie one way or the other.

Jane

Yeah, I think it's like there's certain movie stars who, just like, always play the same character. And it's like, OK, that's that actor, that's that actor, that's that actor, and it gets a little bit redundant. And then there's other actors who are like very much blend into their roles, which if it's done well, I think that that's really good and I really appreciate that. Like, I like Meryl Streep, and like those kind of like… really good. But I think there's some actors who are like, “I'm just going to be completely different in this movie!” and it just, like, doesn't quite… gel with me, I guess? I don't know. But like, I think my favorite kind of actors tend to be the ones where, like you can always tell it's them, but they're doing different things and like they're very versatile within their wheelhouse, like it's not they're doing the same thing every time, but at the same time they they bring themselves to it. And I think that that that Anne Hathaway is very much like that. Because obviously like playing Fantine in Les Mis is very different from playing Ella in Ella Enchanted like they're completely different characters. And I'm not saying like, “Ohh yeah, but it was just Anne Hathaway doing that.” Like, she's a good actress. But I guess I just, I feel like I get her persona a little bit more and like I… I don't want to say it like I'm trying to like insult any actors, but I just think that I tend to resonate with the ones that are more in the style of the Old Hollywood people who were like themselves, like you were saying bringing Cary Grant brand to different characters and I think Anne Hathaway has a very strong star personality and I think that that really comes out in the Ella Enchanted commentary and I think that it's very telling that that was like so early in her career because it was only a few years after Princess Diaries. But she was already like, “This is me. This is who I am. I'm a fully formed person and I'm not going to let Hollywood mess me up too much,” I think, because I think a lot of people fame can really go to their head. And I think that, I mean, there's no way for it not to a little bit, but I feel like… at least the way she comes across, I'm not claiming to know her, but I feel like Anne Hathaway has- seems to have kept her integrity throughout the fame. And I really respect that and it's been really fun to see that like through the ups and downs of her career so far, and I'm sure there's much more to come from her, she's not that old, so I'm sure she'll be-

Quinn

Right. No, we're it's not… this is not a memorial of Anne Hathaway. But yeah, I think that makes sense. It's interesting to hear what's really attractive about her from your perspective. Because I I, I think that does make a lot of sense, and I really do kind of see her as someone in that that just kind of feels right, you know, in thinking about Anne Hathaway as someone who's sort of… is in the older school of, you know, being that type of star, and I really do think that that's some of her best strengths as an actor and that she's she's immediately someone familiar. Like she, we've grown up with her on screen in various roles and like I think that that is something that a lot of those older actors really bring to like a sense of familiarity, and that allows you to really get into the story because they have such potent brands and their brands are not necessarily like “I'm a completely different person in everything I'm in.” Like I'm almost like Meryl Streep is an actress who people talk about as being very transformative. I almost think like Nicole Kidman is kind of that actress. I'm just like, “Satine is the same person as Virginia Woolf?!” Like she's someone to me that I'm like, Nicole Kidman could be anybody, like…

Jane

Yeah, or like Daniel Day-Lewis.

Quinn

Yeah. Yeah, like additional people.

Jane

And like, no offense to them like, I think they're amazingly talented and I-

Quinn

I think what you're describing is like actors that maybe don't have the ability to be that transformed or just like are overcommitted to the process, to the point where it's just like an excuse to be mean to people. Like Jared Leno.

Jane

Oh yeah, everybody who's played the Joker has been like, “I'm going to use this to be mean to people.” So yeah, there are definitely actors who do that really well and like, all power to them, tons of respect. But I think that there's some actors that just try to do stuff throughout their career that I'm just sort of like, that's fine, but I don't really like love that as much. And I think that in the Princess Diaries 2 commentary Anne Hathaway talks quite a bit about old movies that she likes. And I think that that is sort of what has given me the impression of, like, oh, that's why I like her. Because she also is taking from these old movies. And I think that a lot of the more modern actors who I like have something in common with the Old Hollywood style of acting.

Quinn

Is this the first Anne Hathaway movie on the podcast?

Jane

I think so.

Quinn

Oh!

Jane

I think it's only this and Princess Diaries.

Quinn

OK. That makes sense that I haven't really heard your thoughts about Anne Hathaway on the podcast yet. Another comment that I wanted to make about Anne Hathaway's performance style: I actually see a lot of similarities to Ginger Rogers and like how you were describing Ginger Rogers was like, at least perceived by Katharine Hepburn at like the time of Stage Door. I can see some similarities in like how they came across, and I think Anne Hathaway is less known for her dancing, but just the, you know, the really like competent professional model that can deliver really versatile performances and kind of has a few like tricks. And it's not just the acting, it's also the singing, or also the dancing or both. I I see, I see there being something sort of similar between the two of them.

Jane

Yeah. And just like that, people wanted to work with them. Because I think that was part of Katherine Hepburn's issues earlier in her career is that she was very difficult to work with, which like I understand like-

Quinn

[laughing] I can't imagine Katharine Hepburn being difficult.

Jane

I know, right?

Quinn

That's why she's the perfect Susan Vance!

Jane

She was like like, I mean, obviously I feel like even now women are not treated very well in Hollywood. And back then, it was very bad in a lot of ways. And so, like, I can't really fault her for like, standing up for herself, and that got you labeled as difficult, so I think some of it was that, but I think also just like I think Ginger Rogers would have been willing to be friends with her, and she was very much like, “No. We are not friends.” Based on Anne Hathaway’s commentary, like, it seems like she’s very gracious towards everybody she was working with and like, I mean, maybe there's people out there who've worked with Anne Hathaway who were like, “Oh, no, she was horrible.” But I don't think I've heard any stories about her actually being hard to work with, whereas like some stars like I just off the top of my head, Christian Bale comes to mind of like crew members being like, “He just always yells at us” and stuff like that, and I think that like easy to work with for actresses can be code for just like very compliant and never standing up for themselves. And I don't think that that's what Anne Hathaway is like. But I do think that, yeah, she's more of a Ginger Rogers than a Katharine Hepburn in terms of like people want to work with her. So yeah, I think that's a good, that's a good analogy to draw. We’ve talked a lot about Anne Hathaway, but I think she deserves it.

Quinn

Yeah, well, I'm… knowing that this is her debut on your countdown, I I feel like she's somebody that I think of as a modern interest of yours. Someone who's still alive that you like and follow to some extent.

Jane

Yeah, well, there's- when I keep track of the movies I watch, there are certain actors who I update every year when I update my spreadsheet of like how many movies I've seen of theirs and how many times, and like list out like which movies I've seen which number of times for each of them, and most of the actors I track are from Old Hollywood. There's a few more modern ones. Yeah, Anne Hathaway is definitely one of those. And I think that also like being introduced to her along with Julie Andrews, like I wasn't a huge Julie Andrews fan before Princess Diaries. And so I think that like that movie, which I will talk about later, but that really made me really like both of them. And so I kind of think of like, me being a fan of Anne, starting at the same time as Julie Andrews. And so they kind of, like, go together in my mind. And I think having this other movie that's kind of similar to Princess Diaries in that she's playing sort of a princessy type character, but different soon after that really helped fuel my interest in like, keep my interest in Anne Hathaway after Princess Diaries.

Quinn

Yeah, it's honestly beautiful in many ways to think about that pairing for Princess Diaries cause I think I'm sure you're not alone in some way in that story of being introduced to both of them at the same time, or reintroduced, I think a lot of people probably know the Sound of Music and Mary Poppins at least. But yeah, I mean, I think that it's very cool that like, what a great, you know, way to burst onto the Hollywood scene than with the Julie Andrews movie and yeah, I think it's cool to think of how a lot of people must have become fans of both of them at the same time and must kind of attach these two very talented women who have both dominated the entertainment industry for quite some time. I think it's, yeah, it's, it's cool to think about that that's where Anne Hathaway started in a lot of homes.

Jane

Yeah, you know, and Julie Andrews continues to have a career, but also is more known for being sort of at the end of the classic Hollywood era, and that she similarly burst onto the scene with a big role that made her an instant star because-

Quinn

And that was sort of a kids’ movie too.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was a Disney movie. And so like to start as the star of a Disney movie and then just kind of go from there. And Julie Andrews has also had many ups and downs in her career with people loving her and then not liking her that much and like that has happened to her as well, which I think it happens to anybody if you're around long enough. But yeah. So I think that having that connection to Old Hollywood directly also seems more of my jam. And it was fun for me to see somebody closer to my age also talking about liking old movies and things like that. I'm like, OK, cool. I'm not alone in being interested in Old Hollywood, as a younger person who's still alive. And I'm sure that there's a lot of other actors who feel similarly also, like I think you kind of have to if you know your craft, you're going to have seen older movies. But yeah, I think she's been open about like, “Yeah, I I like Audrey Hepburn” and things like that, so…

Quinn

I was going to say she does give me a very Audrey Hepburn type vibe, but like almost like spunkier than Audrey Hepburn but Audrey Hepburn was pretty spunky too, so I wouldn't. I wouldn't take that away from her.

Jane

Yeah.

Quinn

To completely change the subject: amatonormativity. This movie is a love story. How do you feel about that?

[both laugh]

Jane

Yeah, it is definitely a love story. I do think that it's interesting that like, Ella does not at any point set out to find love. She does fall in love with Char definitely, but that's not her objective. Like it's an important part of this story, but ultimately like, that's not what the story's about. Like, I think it's much more about her curse and trying to break away from her having to be obedient.

Quinn

And really, her learning to use love as a tool to be the, you know, the most, like, actualized curse-liberated version of herself. I think that that's like important, too. Like she she realizes that love is something that she wants in her life, like a romantic love is something that she she wants and that that is sort of how she learns to use love as a way to break the curve.

Jane

Yeah and I feel like it's never really been an option for her up until that point, because I think that one of two things would happen. Either she would marry someone who would then, like, completely take advantage of her curse and just-

Quinn

Yes, that would be very scary for her.

Jane

Or she would end up really hurting her partner by having to do stuff because someone else told her to, and that kind of almost happens the second one. Because Char is very kind and understanding and like even there's certain moments in the movie when he like says something and she starts to do it and he's like “That wasn't an order. Like, I'm not trying to make you do stuff you don't want to do.”

Quinn

He's very taken aback by her in all ways because he's used to women throwing themselves at him and so he's very taken aback that Ella doesn't do that at the beginning. And then he's taken aback when she's like overly compliant on things that he meant as more like suggestions and just like interpersonal interactions.

Jane

Yeah.

Quinn

There's a lot of commands and casual conversation we learn through Ella Enchanted.

Jane

And I think they do a really good job with that and there's this great moment when he says, “You have to stay,” and she's like, “OK, I'll stay.” And he's like, “Well, no, you don't HAVE to stay.” And she's like, “OK” and she, like starts to leave. He's like, “But I would like you to stay.” And then she does. And I think that she really appreciates that he wants to give her her own agency when she's never been able to have that. But then of course, Edgar manipulates it and tries to get her to kill Char, and I think that that is part of why she was like, “it's not good that I'm in love with him” cause she knew something that could happen. I don't think she anticipated it happening quite like that or quite that soon. So I think it's very strong of her to allow herself to fall in love with Char and then to be able to overcome the curse, fully break it, rather than killing him, and… side note: another of my favorite parts of the commentary is when she says “I do love you, Char,” and then she raises the knife cause she's like being forced to. And in the commentary, the director goes, “I'm just not in love with you.” It's like, that's what you do. You kill them when you say that!

Quinn

It's iconic.

Jane It's great. But anyway, she is in love with him and so I think that again a lot of what I'm learning through this project is a lot of my favorite love stories are the ones where like falling in love is not the path that they were supposed to go on. Like with Sound of Music like she wants to be a nun. She's not supposed to fall in love with anyone. And then she does. And I think that often with amatonormativity the path is like you are going to fall in love and get married and have kids. And for Ella that's not her path at all initially. And so I think I really enjoy stories where people are forging their own path and not doing what society or other people around them tell them to do. Which is especially poignant in this movie because she literally has to do what everybody tells her to do for most of the story. And so I think that like, because there are all these things about like why, not only should she not end up with Char, she shouldn't end up with anybody. And so I think seeing like, but she wants to and she makes that happen for herself is more powerful than a lot of the like, typical romantic stories where it's like, maybe these two people are pulled apart by various forces, but like, they're going to find someone and marry someone. That's less interesting to me than stories like this.

Quinn

That's interesting.

Jane

But again, it's like there is the romantic element of it, but there's so much more going on and it's so much more about Ella finding herself and finding her own voice when she's being constantly talked over and drowned out. And I think that that's…that's what I like about this story. And like the love story is incidental. But I do think that it's good that Char is so much kinder to her than most of the other people she encounters besides Slannen I guess.

Quinn

Other than the romantic relationship, what are your favorite relationships in Ella Enchanted?

Jane

Ooh, that's a good question… ha, Edgar and his snake?

Quinn

You know that's a good one. I honestly think I might like the Ella and Mandy relationship.

Jane

Oh, yeah.

Quinn

I know it's not emphasized much, but you can just tell that they have a good rapport. I I guess I like Minnie Driver and Anne Hathaway in scenes together, they seem to really have a good chemistry, but yeah, I I like, I like that bond. I think that the step sister bond is funny and interesting. One of my least favorite relationships is the relationship between the father and Ella? Like he is so weird, like because he does- you get the sense he cares about her, and is like mildly intelligent. He's just, like, distant, like, absent, like always on on the road. So he can't be involved in the home situation, but like he's kind of a little weird.

Jane

Yeah, he- Well, he's very underdeveloped. And I also think it's very interesting how like, it takes him a really long time to notice that she's gone and you just see, like, this one random scene where he's, like, talking to the stepmother and “Where's Ella?” And she's just like, “Oh, she's off with Hattie and Olive, it's fine.” And it's like she's been gone for many days at this point. Like, did you just notice that she left?

Quinn

[stepmother impression] “She’s taking a tour of the castle.”

Jane

[continues stepmother impression] “With Hattie and Olive.” I mean, Joanna Lumley just is very, very funny.

Quinn

It's honestly the main performance of hers that I think of. I feel like this is very embarrassing. I know she's in lots of other things, but I mainly think of Joanna Lumley as an Ella Enchanted actress.

Jane

I mean, I feel like most of the people in this movie, there's like two different levels of people. It's like either, “Oh yeah, from Ella Enchanted!” or like, “They were in Ella Enchanted?!”

Quinn

Yeah, there are two choices.

Jane

Yeah, except for like Anne Hathaway, obviously it’s like, I know she's in Ella Enchanted, but I don't automatically think of Ella Enchanted. But like Hugh Dancy…

Quinn

He’s Prince Char!

Jane

He's just so ingrained in Ella Enchanted for me and I think that like, obviously, Anne Hathaway is the main star of this movie, but Hugh Dancy does a great job and I think he does a good job also of like stepping back and letting her be the lead of the movie.

Quinn

Yeah, he's really fantastic and I like the character of Char and it's all a yes for me on the Prince Char front. And I think like their relationship feels very earned throughout the movie. And I agree, you know, I think that it's like, ugh does every movie have to have a romance? Like there is a a quality of like, this probably didn't need to be there, but it is, but I think it's an earned relationship. I think you can see how they're both willing to be supportive of each other. I think you can see how they're helping each other grow. I think that Ella really does challenge Char’s complacency in his privilege. And I think that, I don't know what does Char really do for Ella? Um...

Jane

He saves her!

Quinn

Oh yes, he does save her from the ogres. I think that she does view the world in a really adversarial terms because she has to, to, like, protect herself, and I think that he kind of helps her bring down her walls a little bit. I think you see that throughout the course of the movie. So, yeah, I think they're both, like, really enriching each other's lives in a way that is nice, and they have good chemistry. I feel like I would watch the Hugh Dancy/Anne Hathaway rom com in the future, like I would see them paired up in another movie.

Jane

Yeah, I think that that one objection that I tend to have for a lot of especially rom coms, but romantic movies in general is that a lot of times I feel like the relationship between the leads is actually kind of toxic if you think about it and, like…

Quinn

Yes, it's true.

Jane

…one of them is stalking the other, like something really creepy is happening that you're supposed to think is cute, and I don't feel like we get that with the Ella Enchanted one. I feel like they have a really good organic falling in love. And also like with a lot of Cinderella adaptations, I feel like the Prince is usually very underdeveloped as a character.

Quinn

And it's we talked about this when we watched all the Disney movies. Like it's probably one of the biggest flaws in the Disney Cinderella, which is sort of a standard classic interpretation of Cinderella. I think there's other versions of Cinderella that improve on it a little bit, but there's frankly many that follow in the same footsteps of having kind of an anonymous prince.

Jane

Yeah. And like on the one hand, that's fine, cause it's Cinderella's story. But on the other hand, I'm like, this is very much Ella’s story, but I feel like we understand who Char is and he's very well developed and their relationship is very well developed. Like we have many scenes together. At first, like she really doesn't like him. It's a trope that happens in many romantic films of like initially one of them is like, “Ugh, I hate you,” and then they get together eventually. But I think it's very gradual and just feels very organic and it makes sense. And so yeah, I I am in favor of their romance. Like I-

Quinn

Well, and he's also, not looking at Ella as a conquest, even though it's very clearly established when they meet that like she's not into him and he is sort of like allured by that because he's very used to like running from a screaming horde of fans. And so, like, you can tell that he's both like this is of interest to him that Ella has resistance to him because it's unusual, but it's not like- There's a very easy way to make that character very toxic then, and to say, like, oh, I'm going to conquest this, and I don't think that that's how he feels about her. And it's really they don't cross paths again until he's saving her life from the ogre. So there's like a very good, like, high stakes reason for him to intervene in her life at that time. Like, there's not, like, a creepy, like, I'm gonna get that girl who resisted me.

Jane

Well, and he doesn't know the full story of what she's doing because she's not allowed to tell anyone about the curse. But like he's willing to help her find her fairy godmother, like, basically no questions asked. And you don't ever get the impression that he's, like, doing it to like, because there's, you know, the whole friend zone of, like, “I was nice to her, and now she's not sleeping with me.” Like you don't get the impression that he's helping her to get in her pants or anything. Like he really wants to help her.

Quinn

Yeah, there's not really any like subversive stuff that you feel like subversive motivation that he has that you sense he has ever.

Jane

Yeah, yeah, I think they do a really good job of that of like, I think he would be OK with being her friend and advocate.

Quinn

Well, yeah, and you get the sense that he wants a peer to, like, talk to because he can't talk to any other young women because they're too busy, like screaming about him.

Jane

Yeah.

Quinn

Like, I don't… I can't imagine he's having, like, really deep conversations with a lot of the other people that are in the fan club that are just like, “Char’s naked in the shower?!” and like, just like screaming. Like literally screaming and like chasing him down. Like I think if there's anything that Ella Enchanted is a cutting analysis on stan culture because they really put the stans out there and say “You're blowing your shot by acting this way. It's not cute!”

Jane

Yeah, and I I think he also he's like tired of being overly sexualized. And so the fact that she sees him as a person is really like not just to turn on for him. Like obviously that's part of it. And like he falls in love with her partly because she is not screaming at him. But I think, like, just they're able to get to know each other, person to person, and that's really what you feel like their falling in love is is like now that I know you as a person, I really have this deep connection with you, and I think they have some great scenes together that really show that. So again, I like that the romance isn't the main part, but I also really like the way they do the romance in this movie. So I think it gets a pass from me of being like this is a good romance movie.

Quinn

The Jane Ace star.

Jane

Yes, exactly! You could be aroace and still appreciate the relationship that they have.

Quinn

The aroace sealed romance.

Jane

There you go. And, yeah, I do think that there's other good relationships. I really wish that the Ella/Areida relationship was better developed because I would really like to have that strong female friendship because again there’s… it is a female driven story, but the secondary characters that are more developed tend to be male characters like Slannen and the ogre Nish…

Quinn

Edgar.

Jane

Edgar, yeah. Whereas like you have, like, the stepmother and the step sisters who are great. And then...

Quinn

And and Minnie driver, you have Mandy.

Jane

Mandy, yeah, but I would love to see more from them.

Quinn

And Lucinda.

Jane

Yeah, but Lucinda is, I think every moment she has great.

Quinn

And there could be more diversity in the cast, too. That's also a critique.

Jane

Yeah, always. But at least they're not all white.

Quinn

It's true there is some diversity.

Jane

Minimal diversity, but yeah, yeah, absolutely. More diversity, would love to see a… like because everybody kind of, not everybody, but some of the other characters get paired up because you have that random like Slannen and Heidi Klum thing. It was like he could have found a man to be with. Like we could have some, queer pairings here. I mean it’s fine. I think that like I do enjoy this movie on its own. I don't feel like it would have made it into the Top 40 without the commentary.

Quinn

Well, yeah. And I think I think it's probably like a less polished version of, like, Mamma Mia in the sense of like, I imagine, like, you would watch this movie for similar reasons that you would watch something like Mamma, Mia and maybe Mamma Mia is just like a little bit sharper of a movie. Although it is also, I think in the same like it's kind of stupid at times and like embraces being stupid and yeah, it's like it's a random musical for no real reason. It's fun and so I feel like that's why it's also easy to watch the commentary because that just like makes it more fun.

Jane

Right, yeah.

Quinn

And so, you know, I think I agree, I don't know that this is like the best movie on its own. But I think the combination of it being a lot of fun, having fun commentary, sort of striking some of the same balance of like Mamma Mia and other movies that have ended up high in your countdown. That could be what it is. It's just it's just the right cocktail of all of those things.

Jane

Yeah. Well, I think it's very chaotic and eclectic, but ultimately, like everybody was making the same movie. And I think that really helps that like, yes, there's all these different pieces and all these different things going on. Which I guess is kind of what makes it feel a bit more old movie-ish that there's like this very convoluted plot of several different characters doing things. But yeah, everybody, I feel like everybody was on the same page. Everybody knew what movie they were making. They knew it was kind of silly and not really that amazing. And they were all just OK with that. And I think that really makes it work a lot better than it would have if people were like, yeah, this is whatever a trashy movie, we're just gonna get paid. And I feel like everybody was just like, we're gonna show up, we're gonna have a good time. And yeah, I think that that really comes across to the audience and that's what makes it an enjoyable movie, despite not being a great movie.

Quinn

Yeah. Sounds like the right recipe to end up on your countdown.

Jane

Yes, exactly. So thank you so much for being here with me and talking for a very long time about this movie that we both love.

Quinn

Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. I love discussing anything related to Ella Enchanted.

Jane

Yes, and I'm so glad that you were here to discuss it with me.

Thank you to Quinn for all of your insights and questions, and thank you listeners for sticking through my longest episode yet. I hope it was still fun and interesting for you – it certainly was for me. Now that we’re in the top half of the list, I feel like I’m going to have more to say about each movie, so they will probably start trending a bit longer, although I’m sure my solo episodes will still be much shorter than this. But before we get back to just me talking I have one more special guest episode lined up, so stay tuned for another long one next week, about a very different type of film. As always, I will leave you with a quote from that next movie: “She may be risking her life, but when it comes to being a lady, she doesn’t hold a candle to your wife, sir, sitting in Washington, playing bridge with three other ladies of great honor and virtue.”

#ella enchanted #anne hathaway #the rewatch rewind #sorry i've been posting these late #special guest episodes take a long time to transcribe #i should get caught up soon

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