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#won't be reading him again

bethanydelleman · 10 months

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In one of my most popular posts, I pointed out that Jane Austen and Charlotte Brontë's writing styles don't have a ton in common, despite being constantly recommended to Austen fans looking for further reading.

Anthony Trollope is another name I hear frequently as similar to Austen. And let me say now.

No. Stop it.

I read his most famous and popular novel, Barchester Towers. The whole time I had this vibe, though I couldn't exactly find a quote to support it, that this author did not really respect women. The main hero is explicitly said to treat women like children. A main plot is about a bishop being hen-pecked (controlled by his wife). Another main plot is a woman who is a heartless, magical siren.

Well then the vibe stopped being a vibe (woman is ivy, man is tower):

When the ivy has found its tower, when the delicate creeper has found its strong wall, we know how the parasite plants grow and prosper. They were not created to stretch forth their branches alone, and endure without protection the summer's sun and the winter's storm. Alone they but spread themselves on the ground and cower unseen in the dingy shade. But when they have found their firm supporters, how wonderful is their beauty; how all-pervading and victorious! What is the turret without its ivy, or the high garden wall without the jasmine which gives it its beauty and fragrance? The hedge without the honeysuckle is but a hedge.

Yeah, I want to vomit. Women are a parasitic vine that cannot grow properly without a man? Fuck you, Anthony Trollop.

And why in the world would anyone compare this author to Austen?

Before someone fights me:

Yes, I realize that an author from 1857 might have unfortunate views about women. I'm not an idiot. I choose to read those who don't.

Yes, I know I only read one novel. I'm not going further because that was enough for me. I also wasn't very fond of his writing style besides the misogyny.

The main problem here is the comparison to Jane Austen, not Anthony Trollope himself. I didn't find them comparable at all besides being British and the presence of clergymen. If you love Trollope, this is not an attack on you personally.

#won't be reading him again #summer reading interludes #barchester towers #anthony trollope #to be fair I did mostly enjoy the book #but it is nothing like Austen #you see my disgust mainly arises from people comparing him to austen #but I also don't appreciate being called a parasitic vine #Also walls and towers can survive just fine without vines #so you've made women completely useless to men #almost threw the novel across the room

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dragonsbluee · 15 days

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I have a request for batfam/Jason Todd fanfic writers:

I love the "Jason Todd is a bookworm/theatre nerd" fics as much as the next person, don't get me wrong, but can we please diversify his interests?

90% of the time when I open a fic with that tag, we see Jason reading Jane Eyre or Pride and Prejudice or quoting Shakespeare. And not to say that there's anything wrong with any of those being his favourite but even if he loves to read "classical" books, come on!

You're telling me Jason raised-in-crime-alley-spent-his-formative-years-between-an-eccentric-billionaire-and-an-assassin-cult Todd only reads books by dead white people?!

I refuse! Give me a man who takes to books more than ever after his return to Gotham. Jason, who reads books like I am Woman, A Really Good Brown Girl and White Tears/Brown Scars, then recommends them to the working girls as he establishes his territory. Who reads in multiple languages, and who loves Arabic poetry.

Give me a little "Robin is Magic!" Jason scouring Bruce's library and picking up a copy of The Mahabharata after he's done The Iliad, and spends weeks obsessed with Journey to the West.

Give me a Jason who's read Things Fall Apart, and One Hundred Years of Solitude! The number of quotes and references he could pull that would further support his dramatic tendencies? It would make him so happy!

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ride-a-dromedary · 8 months

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Again I know it's supposed to be a haha reference to the turns into a bear when he's too aroused thing, but in again refusing to brush just over the surface of this character: "I must be careful or I'll lose run of myself again. An Archdruid should show *some* restraint." comes across to me as more melancholy than perhaps intended when a. You take it into consideration that several lines imply that Halsin has issues with self control and self servitude, and presenting an "acceptable" version of himself as an outwards facing authority figure, to the point where he brushes over his own feelings, or pushes things that he wants down in the effort to reflect better what others want from him.

And b. Remember that Halsin was essentially just an apprentice when he was forcibly situationally promoted to Archdruid - he wasn't taught *how* to be an Archdruid or trained for it, or mentored; he was thrust into it because they didn't have any other choice. But they needed someone, so he stepped up. Halsin has spent the last century studying and learning things on the fly or through trial and error, and in a position of leadership like that, he is aware that every failure to uphold that mask *counts* and others *are* very much affected. How many times has he muttered that same mantra? Or heard it thrown around? An Archdruid not having control over their own magic is a big deal. Even when he is no longer Archdruid, he still grumbles it to himself. He's been at it over a century and he *still* doesn't feel like he's gotten it right. Even when he is in a place of progression, of trying to gain hold of himself again, those wisps of failure and self doubt still creep into everything. And that's sad to me.

#BG3 Musing #Halsin Posting #haha funny line in response to saucy line that man is about to go feral ooh se- HEY TRAUMA #it's like a med student being promoted to the head of emergency #or an admin assistant suddenly being put in a ceo role #like i know it's a meme scene!! but halsin sounds *humilated* when he accidentally wildshapes during his romance scene #he sounds flustered and embarrassed and is so quickly launching off excuses with a tone that indicates *he thinks it's over*#like he fucked up he fucked this up just when he was *starting* to come into himself again and it never stops #i keep thinking of that one lyric from big thief 'i can't find surrender/and i can't keep control'#and again i'm reading too deep into it but halsin's struggle with failure really is embedded here you just have to...like listen to him #Even when he *says* that there's little point in denying oneself #he does it literally all the time - he did it for a *century*#and i'm not saying he doesn't have fun or not enjoy things but he cuts himself off so early at the root #or buries himself so thoroughly in a self indulgence until it wrecks him and neither of these things are healthy #note that he says as long as others aren't affected - he doesn't say as long as i'm not affecting *myself*#anyway i'm unwell #maybe i was never meant to be archdruid - you weren't! you were meant to protect nature's spirit and roam with the wilds #and yet he still did the best he could and people *admire* him and followed him but he may never come to see it that way #you ruined a perfectly good wood elf - look it's got trauma and anxiety (and larian turned him into a meme and i won't forgive them)

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hephaestuscrew · 7 months

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The role of Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure Protocol Manual in the characterisation, symbolism, and themes of Wolf 359

TL;DR: The DSSPPM is used as a tool to help establish and develop Minkowski and Eiffel as characters: Minkowski as a strict Commander who clings to the certainty provided by a rigid source of authority like the DSSPPM, and Eiffel as the anti-authority slacker who strongly objects to the idea that he ought to read the manual. The way their contrasting attitudes towards the DSSPPM manifest through the show reflect their character development and changing dynamic. The DSSPPM can be directly used against the protagonists by those with power over them, and the reveal of its authorship gives a particularly sinister edge to its regular presence in the show. But it can be also be repurposed and seen through an individual interpersonal lens.

Note: There’s plenty that you could say about the DSSPPM through the lens of what it says about Goddard Futuristics as an organisation, or about Pryce and Cutter as people. Or you could talk about Lambert quoting the DSSPPM an absurd number of times in Change of Mind, and Lovelace’s reactions to this. But in this essay, I’ll be analysing on mentions of the DSSPPM with a focus on Minkowski, Eiffel, and their dynamic.

“One of those mandatory mission training things”: the DSSPPM as a tool to establish characterisation

The first mention of Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure Protocol Manual (the DSSPPM) in Wolf 359 is also the very first interaction we hear Eiffel and Minkowski have. In fact, the first time we hear Minkowski's voice at all is her telling Eiffel off for not having read the manual:

[Ep1 Succulent Rat-Killing Tar] MINKOWSKI Eiffel, did you read your copy of Pryce and Carter? EIFFEL My copy of what? MINKOWSKI Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure Protocol Manual. EIFFEL Was that one of those mandatory mission training things? MINKOWSKI Yes. EIFFEL In that case, yes, I definitely did. MINKOWSKI Did you now? Because I happened to find your copy of the D.S.S.P.P.M. floating in the observation deck. EIFFEL Oh? MINKOWSKI Still in its plastic wrapping.

This is an effective way to establish their conflicting personalities right out of the gate. Minkowski's determination to "do things by the book - this book in fact" contrasts clearly with Eiffel's professed ignorance about and clear disregard for "this... Jimmy Carter thing”. Purely through their attitudes to this one book, they slot easily into clear archetypes which inevitably clash. Everything about Eiffel in that opening episode sets him up as a slacker who doesn't care about authority, but the image of his mandatory mission training manual floating in the observation deck "still in its plastic wrapping" provides a particularly striking illustration.

By contrast, we immediately encounter Minkowski as a strict leader who cares deeply about making sure everything is done according to protocol; the intense importance she places on the DSSPPM is one of the very first things we know about her. Her insistence on the importance of the survival manual might seem somewhat understandable at first, if perhaps unhelpfully aggressive, but it starts to feel less sensible as soon as we start to hear some of the tips from this manual:

Deep Space Survival Tip Number Five: Remain positive at all times. Maintain a cheerful attitude even in the face of adversity. Remember: when you are smiling the whole world smiles with you, but when you're crying you're in violation of fleet-wide morale codes and should report to your superior officer for disciplinary action.

The strange, controlling, vaguely sinister tone of some of the tips we hear in the first episode is largely played for laughs, emphasised by the exaggeratedly upbeat manner in which Hera reads them. But even these first few tips give us some initial suggestions that the powers behind this mission might not care all that much about the wellbeing of their crew members.

It says something about Minkowski that she places such faith and importance in a book which says things like "Failing to remain calm, could result in your grisly, gruesome death" and "when you're crying you're in violation of fleet-wide morale codes and should report to your superior officer for disciplinary action." (Foreshadowing the Hephaestus Station as the home of immense emotional repression and compartmentalising...) Having those kind of pressures and demands placed on her (and those around her) by people above her in the military hierarchy doesn’t unsettle Minkowski.

Eiffel groans and sighs as he listens to the tips, but Minkowski seems to see this manual as an essential source of wisdom. The main role the manual plays in this episode is to establish Minkowski and Eiffel as contrasting characters with very different approaches to authority and therefore a potential to clash.

When Minkowski demands that Eiffel reads the DSSPPM, he decides to get Hera to read it to him, asking her to keep this as “a 'just the two of us, totally secret, never tell Commander Minkowski' thing”. Eiffel seems convinced that Minkowski won't be happy with him listening to Hera read the DSSPPM rather than reading it himself. This suggests that (at least in Eiffel's interpretation) Minkowski’s orders are not just about her wanting him to know the contents of the manual, since this could theoretically be accomplished just as well by him listening to it. But she wants him to do things in what she’s deemed to be the correct way, to put in the right amount of effort, and not to take what she might see as a shortcut. It’s not just about the contents of the manual; it’s about the commitment to protocol that reading it represents.

“When in doubt: whip it out”: Hilbert’s use of the DSSPPM

In Season 1, the DSSPPM isn't purely associated with Minkowski. Hilbert actually quotes it more than she does in the first few episodes. In Ep2 Little Revolución, Hilbert's response to Eiffel's toothpaste protest is inspired by "Pryce and Carter six fourteen: “When in doubt, whip it out - ‘it’ being hydrochloric acid.”" This tip is absurd in a more direct obvious way than those we heard in Ep1. While this absurdity is partly for humour, it also casts further doubt on the usefulness of this supposedly authoritative survival manual, and therefore on the wisdom of trusting Command.

In Ep4 Cataracts and Hurricanoes, Hilbert starts to quote Tip #4 at Eiffel, who protests "I'm not gonna have one of the last things I hear be some crap from the survival manual". These moments again place Eiffel in clear opposition to the DSSPPM, but also suggest that Hilbert's attitude towards the DSSPPM - and therefore towards Command - is closer to Minkowski's than to Eiffel's.

When Hilbert turns on the Hephaestus crew in his Christmas mutiny, his allegiance to Command is revealed as dangerous. And here the DSSPPM comes up again. As Minkowski dissolves the door between her and Hilbert, she triumphantly echoes his own words back to him: "Pryce and Carter six fourteen: “When in doubt, whip it out - ‘it’ being hydrochloric acid.” Never. Fails." This provides a callback to a previous, more comedic conflict on the Hephaestus, and reminds the listener of a time when Minkowski and Hilbert were working together against Eiffel, in contrast to the current situation of Minkowski and Eiffel versus Hilbert. But it also shows that Minkowski, like Hilbert, is capable of using some of the more absurd DSSPPM tips to defeat an adversary. And it shows Minkowski leaning on those tips in a real moment of crisis.

Once Hilbert has betrayed the crew in order to follow orders from Command, we might look back on his quoting of the DSSPPM as casting the manual in a more sinister light, and again calling into question the wisdom of Minkowski placing such trust in it.

“It's not that I don't believe it, I'm just disgusted by it”: the DSSPPM as an indicator of a changing dynamic

The next mention of the DSSPPM is in Ep17 Bach to the Future:

MINKOWSKI Eiffel's been spot-testing me, Hera. He doesn't believe that I've memorized all of the survival tips in Pryce and Carter. EIFFEL It's not that I don't believe it, I'm just disgusted by it. I keep hoping to discover it's not true. MINKOWSKI Well, believe as little as you want, doesn't change the fact that I do know them. And so should you!

I think this provides an interesting illustration of the way in which Minkowski and Eiffel’s dynamic has developed since Ep1. They still have deeply contrasting attitudes to the DSSPPM, but this contrast is now a source of entertainment between them, rather than merely of conflict.

Given that Hera wasn’t aware of Eiffel testing Minkowski on the tips, we can guess that it’s a game they came up with while Hera was offline. In the midst of all the exhaustion and uncertainty and fear they were dealing with after Hilbert’s mutiny, this was a way they found to pass the time. It must have been Eiffel who suggested it; Minkowski cites his disbelief as the reason for the spot-testing. And yet she plays along, responding each time, even though this activity has no real productive value.

Minkowski is keen to demonstrate that she does know the tips and she emphasises that Eiffel ought to know them too, but their interactions about the DSSPPM in this episode have none of the genuine irritation and frustration that they displayed in Ep1. It feels almost playful and teasing. Eiffel still thinks Minkowski is "completely insane" for learning all the tips and is "disgusted" by her commitment to memorising them, but these comments feel much closer to joking about a friend's weird traits than to insulting a hated coworker's personality. It feels like something has shifted since Eiffel responded to Minkowski’s passion for the DSSPPM by saying “I'm so glad that your shrivelled husk of a dictator's heart is as warm as a decompression chamber”.

Another thing to note here is that Minkowski's respect for the DSSPPM has clearly survived Hilbert's Christmas mutiny and Minkowski's resulting distrust of Command. From Hilbert's behaviour at Christmas, it's clear that the crew's survival is not at the top of Command's priority list. But Minkowski still trusts the book that Command told her to read. She still thinks Eiffel should read it too. The main figures of authority above her are dangerous and untrustworthy, but she still clings to the source of guidance they provided her with.

It's also worth noting that Minkowski has not just learnt the advice in each of the 1001 tips, but she has memorised (nearly) all of them by number. If it was just about the information that the manual provides to inform responses to potentially life-or-death situations, then knowing the numbers wouldn't be necessary. Nor would it be particularly useful to know them all exactly word-for-word. Minkowski's reliance on the DSSPPM is again suggested to be about more than the potential practical use of its content. It's about showing that she is committed and disciplined and up to the task of leading. She does have some awareness of the strangeness of many of the tips, but this doesn't diminish the value of her adherence to the manual for her:

EIFFEL You're insane. MINKOWSKI I'm disciplined. Although I will admit they do get more... esoteric as you go higher up the list.

There's only one tip Minkowski doesn't seem to remember, and that's revealing too:

EIFFEL 555? Minkowski DRAWS BREATH - and STOPS SHORT. [...] MINKOWSKI Hold on a second, I know this. (beat) Dammit. EIFFEL Hey, look at that! Looks like there may be hope for you yet. MINKOWSKI Quiet, Eiffel. Hera, what's D.S.S.P.P.M. 555? HERA "Good communication habits are key to continued subsistence. Be in touch with other crew members about shipboard activities. Interfacing about possible problems or dangers is the best way to anticipate and prevent them." This hangs in the air for a second. Then – EIFFEL So you forget the one tip in the entire manual that's actually helpful? MINKOWSKI Shut up.

Communication is a key theme of this show, so it’s interesting that this is the one tip Minkowski can’t remember, perhaps indicating an aspect of leadership and teamwork that she doesn’t always prioritise or find easy.

Eiffel saying “Looks like there may be hope for you yet” seems like just a throwaway teasing line, but it’s got a profound edge to it. A lot of Minkowski’s arc is about learning how to provide her own direction and support her crew outside of the systems of authority and hierarchy that she’s grown so attached to. So perhaps Eiffel is right to see a kind of hope in her failure to remember every single DSSPPM tip – she has the potential to break free of her reliance on external authority.

“Which one was 897, what was the exact phrasing of that Deep Space Survival Tip?”: the DSSPPM in interactions with Cutter

The Wolf 359 liveshow, Deep Space Survival Procedure and Protocol, is literally named after the manual. This suggests, before we’ve even heard/watched the episode, that the DSSPPM will be a key symbol here. Which is interesting because I'd say the liveshow has two main plot points: (a) Eiffel's failure to read the DSSPPM or follow orders in general, the resulting disruption to the mission, and his crewmates' frustration with this; and (b) the looming threat of Cutter, the necessity of keeping information from Command, and the risk of fatal mission termination.

Even without the knowledge that Cutter is one of the co-authors of the DSSPPM (which neither the Hephaestus crew nor a first-time listener knows at this point), there's a kind of irony in the contrast between these two plotlines. On the one hand, Minkowski repeatedly berates Eiffel for not having read Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure and Protocol Manual, which was made mandatory by Command. On the other hand, she is aware that Command in general - and Cutter specifically - represents the biggest threat to the safety and survival of her crew.

Cutter uses the DSSPPM against each of the Hephaestus crew in their one-on-one conversations with him. For Minkowski, he uses it as a way of emphasising the expectations and responsibility placed on her:

MINKOWSKI There are always gaps between expectation and reality, but-- CUTTER But it's our job as leaders to close that gap, isn't it? Pryce and Carter...? MINKOWSKI 414, yes. Yes, sir, I know.

Cutter knows that Minkowski will know those tips and he knows abiding by them is important to her. She's quick to demonstrate her knowledge of the DSSPPM and agree with the tip. There's something deeply sinister to me about Cutter's use of the word 'our' here. His phrasing includes them both as leaders who should be ensuring that things are exactly as expected. It’s almost a kind of flattery at her authority, but it comes with impossibly high expectations. This way of emphasising the importance and responsibilities of her role as Commander is a targeted strategy by Cutter at manipulating Minkowski, designed to appeal to her values.

In Hera's one-on-one, Cutter uses a DSSPPM tip to interpret her behaviour and claim that he can read her motives:

CUTTER This thing you're doing. Asking questions while you get your bearings. HERA Sir, I'm just curious about-- CUTTER Pryce and Carter 588: Shows of courtesy and polite queries are an efficient way to gain time necessary to strategize.

Unlike with Minkowski (or Eiffel), Cutter doesn't prompt Hera to demonstrate her knowledge of the manual. That wouldn't work as a power play against Hera, who would be able to recall the manual (or, rather, retrieve the file, however that distinction works within her memory) but who doesn't care about the DSSPPM like Minkowski does. Instead, Cutter implies that Hera’s behaviour can be predicted - or at the very least seen through - by the DSSPPM, which seems like a cruel attempt by Cutter at belittling her.

For Eiffel, Cutter uses the manual as a weapon in a different way again. He asks Eiffel, "which one was 897, what was the exact phrasing of that Deep Space Survival Tip?", something which Eiffel clearly doesn't know, but Cutter of course does. This puts Eiffel on the back foot, trying to defend and justify himself, allowing Cutter to emphasise his position of power yet again.

The DSSPPM plays a double role in the liveshow. On the one hand, as Minkowski reminds Eiffel, proper knowledge of the manual "would've saved [the crew] from these problems with the nav computer" – some of the tips can potentially save the crew a great deal of hassle, stress, and risk. On the other hand, the same manual is used by Cutter to manipulate, unsettle, and intimidate the crew. There are these two sides to the information given to the crew by Command - two sides to the manual which Minkowski still values.

In another duality for the DSSPM, the manual is sometimes used as a symbol of the relationship between the crew members and Command, and sometimes used to indicate the dynamics between the individual crew members, usually Minkowski and Eiffel. Before Cutter’s appearance in the liveshow, Minkowski and Eiffel’s discussions of the DSSPPM reflect interpersonal disagreements between two people with fundamentally different attitudes:

MINKOWSKI Oh come on, why do you think I keep trying to get you to go over these things? Do you think I enjoy going through them? EIFFEL Yes. MINKOWSKI Well, alright, I do. But this knowledge could save your life.

Minkowski enjoys rules, regulations, and certainty, for their own sake as much as for any practical usefulness. Eiffel very much does not. This is a simple clash of individuals, in which the link between the DSSPPM and Command is implicit. Minkowski doesn't seem to question the idea that the information in the DSSPPM is potentially life-saving, even though she knows Command don't care about their lives. But Cutter’s repeated references to the DSSPPM remind us who made that book a mandatory part of mission training – it certainly wasn’t Minkowski, even if she’s often the one attempting to enforce this rule.

At the end of the liveshow, in a desperate attempt to prevent mission termination, Eiffel promises Cutter that he will read the DSSPPM (the liveshow transcript notes that him saying this is "like pulling teeth"), an instance of the manual being used in negotiations between the Hephaestus crew and Command. All Minkowski’s orders weren’t enough to get Eiffel to read that book, but a genuine life-or-death threat might just about be enough. Perhaps it's ironic that Eiffel reads the survival manual out of a desire for survival, not because he thinks the contents of the book will help him survive, but because he’s grasping anything he can offer to buy the crew’s survival from those who created that same book.

In the final scene of the liveshow, Minkowski catches Eiffel reading the DSSPPM, and he fumbles to hide that he's been reading it, a humorous reversal of all the times that he's lied to her that he has read it. Perhaps admitting that he's reading it would be like letting Minkowski win. Minkowski seems to find both surprise and amusement in seeing Eiffel finally reading the manual, but she doesn't push him to admit it. There's some slightly smug but still friendly teasing in the way Minkowski says "were you now?" when Eiffel says that he was just reading something useful. In that final scene, the manual is viewed again through the lens of Minkowski and Eiffel’s dynamic – Command’s relation to the DSSPPM becomes secondary.

“The first thing I'd make damn sure was hard wired into anything that might end up in a situation like this one”: the DSSPPM as a tool of survival

In Ep30 Mayday, when Eiffel is stranded alone on Lovelace’s shuttle, he hallucinates Minkowski to bring him out of his helpless panic and force him into action. And this hallucination also brings with it one of Minkowski’s interests:

MINKOWSKI Eiffel... I worked on this shuttle. Reprogramming that console. EIFFEL So? How does that help – MINKOWSKI Think about it. BEAT. And then he gets it. EIFFEL Oh goddammit. MINKOWSKI What's the first thing that I would do when programming a flight computer? The first thing I'd make damn sure was hard wired into anything that might end up in a situation like this one? EIFFEL Pyrce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure and Protocol Manual.

Again, a conversation about the DSSPPM gives us an indication of the development of Minkowski and Eiffel’s relationship. Not only does Eiffel imagine Minkowski as a figure of (fairly aggressive) support when he’s stranded and alone, he thinks about what advice she’d give him and he follows it. Rather than dismissing the manual entirely, he looks for tips that are relevant to his situation. He’s not pleased about his hallucinated-Minkowski trying to get him to read the DSSPPM, but that was what his mind gave him in an almost hopeless situation. Some part of him now empathises with Minkowski’s priorities in a way that he definitely wasn’t doing in Ep1. He thinks that the DSSPPM might be on the shuttle because he knows the manual is important to Minkowski. It’s by imagining Minkowski that he gets himself to read the manual in order to see if it can help him survive – he certainly doesn’t think about what Cutter or anyone else from Command would tell him to do.

In the end, the tips Eiffel picks out aren’t all that helpful or informative: “Confront reality head-on”; “In an emergency, take stock of the tools at your disposal. Then take stock again. Restock. Repurpose. Reuse. Recycle."; and “"In times of trouble, an idle mind is your worst enemy”. But Eiffel does use these tips to structure his initial thinking about how to survive on Lovelace’s shuttle. In an almost entirely hopeless situation, Eiffel finds some value in the DSSPPM. But since the tips he picks out are mostly platitudes, the actual wisdom that allows him to survive all comes from his own mind; the tips, like his hallucinations, are just a tool he uses to externalise his process of figuring out what to do.

“Wasn't there something about this in the survival manual?”: Minkowski potentially moving away from the DSSPPM

Given the significance of the DSSPPM in Season 1 and 2 to Minkowski in particular, it feels notable when the manual isn’t referenced. Unless I've missed something (and please let me know if I have), Minkowski – the real one, not Eiffel’s hallucination - doesn't bring up the manual of her own accord at all in Seasons 3 or 4. This might make us wonder if she’s moved away from her trust in and reliance on that book provided by Command.

Perhaps the arrival of the SI-5, which highlights to Minkowski that the chain of command is not a good indicator of trustworthy authority, was the final straw. Or perhaps the apparent loss of Eiffel - and any subsequent questioning of her leadership approach, or realisations about the valuable perspective Eiffel provided - were what finally broke down her faith in that book.

Alternatively, perhaps Minkowski still trusts the DSSPPM as much as ever, but trying to get Eiffel or any of the other crew members to listen to it is a losing battle that she no longer sees as a priority. Either way, Minkowski’s apparent reluctance to bring up the DSSPPM feels like a shift in her approach.

The associations between Minkowski and the DSSPPM are still there in Season 3, but they are raised by other characters, not by Minkowski herself. The manual is used to emphasise Eiffel’s difficulties when he’s put in charge of trying to get Maxwell and Hera to fill out a survey in Ep32 Controlled Demolition. Trying to force other people to be productive pushes Eiffel into some very uncharacteristic behaviour:

EIFFEL Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you? It's like you've never even read Pryce and Carter! Tip #490 very clearly states that – He trails off. After a BEAT – HERA Officer Eiffel? MAXWELL You, uh, all right there? EIFFEL (the horror) What have I become? [...] Eiffel, now wrapped up in a blanket, is next to Lovelace. He is still very clearly shaken. EIFFEL ... and... it was like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I was slowly transforming into Commander Minkowski. [...] It was a nightmare! A terrifying, bureaucratic nightmare!

This is a funny role reversal, but it shows us the strength of Eiffel’s association between Minkowski and the DSSPPM, as well his extreme aversion to finding himself in a strict bureaucratic leadership position. It also suggests that becoming extremely frustrated when trying to get other people to do what you want might make anyone resort to relying on an external source of authority, such as the manual. I don’t know whether this experience helps Eiffel empathise with Minkowski, but perhaps it might give us some insight into how her need for authority and control in the leadership role she occupied might have reinforced her deference to the DSSPPM.

In Ep34, we get a suggestion of another character having a strong association between the DSSPPM and Minkowski. After the discovery of Funzo, Hera asks Minkowski what the manual says about it:

HERA Umm... I don't know if this is a good idea. Lieutenant, wasn't there something about this in the survival manual? MINKOWSKI Pryce and Carter 792: Of all the dangers that you will face in the void of space, nothing compares to the existential terror that is Funzo.

It’s interesting to me that Hera asks Minkowski here. We know from Ep1 that “Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure Protocol Manual is among the files [Hera has] access to”. Two possible reasons occur to me for why Hera might ask Minkowski about the DSSPPM tip here. One possibility is that Hera thinks that retrieving the manual from her databanks and finding the correct tip would take her more time than it would take for Minkowski to just remember the tip. Which suggests interesting things about the nature of Hera’s memory, but also implies that - at least in Hera's view -Minkowski’s knowledge of the DSSPPM is more reliable than that of a supercomputer.

The other possibility is that Hera could have recalled the relevant DSSPPM tip incredibly quickly but she doesn’t want to, maybe because she resents having that manual in her head in the first place, or maybe because she wants to show respect for Minkowski’s knowledge as a Commander. Either way, we can see that Hera – like Eiffel – strongly associates Minkowski with the DSSPPM.

And Minkowski, even if she wasn’t the one to bring up the manual here, recalls the relevant tip immediately. Perhaps she is moving away from her trust in that manual, but everything that she learned as part of her old deference to the authority of Command is still there in her head. She might want to forget it by the end of the mission, but that’s not easily achieved. The way Minkowski’s friends/crewmates associate the manual with her emphasises the difficulty she’ll face if she tries to move away from it.

“One thousand and one pains in my ass”: The authorship of the DSSPPM

In Ep55 A Place for Everything, Eiffel effectively expresses his long-held dislike of the DSSPPM when he comes face-to-face with both of its authors:

EIFFEL What? What the hell are - wait a minute - Pryce? As in one thousand and one pains in my ass, Pryce? (sudden realization) Which... makes you...? MR. CUTTER (holding out his hand) W.S. Carter, pleased to meet you.

It’s significant that the two ‘big bads’ of the whole series are the authors of the manual which Minkowski and Eiffel were bickering about all the way back in Ep1. It’s not the only way in which the message of this show positions itself firmly against just accepting externally imposed authority and hierarchy without question or evidence, but it does reinforce this ethos.

By being the authors of the manual, Cutter and Pryce have had a sinister hidden presence throughout the show. Long before we know who Pryce is and even before we hear Cutter’s name, their manual is there, occupying a prominent place in Minkowski’s motivations and priorities, and in her arguments with Eiffel. It’s not at all comparable to what Pryce put in Hera’s mind, but it is another way in which these antagonists have wormed their way into the heads of our protagonists.

Minkowski will have to come to terms with the fact that the 1001 tips she spent hours memorising and reciting were written by two people who would have killed her, her crew, and even the whole human race without hesitation if it served their purposes. We never get to hear Minkowski’s reaction to learning the identities of Pryce and Carter, but I think processing the role of their manual in her life will be a long and difficult road that’ll tie into a lot of other emotional processing she needs to do. Her assertion to Cutter that, without him, she is “Renée Minkowski... and that is more than enough to kick your ass!” feels like part of that journey. She doesn’t mention the DSSPPM at all in Season 4. She’s growing beyond it.

"Doug Eiffel's Deep Space Survival Guide": The DSSPPM as a weapon against those who wrote it

Last but not least, I couldn’t write about Eiffel and the DSSPPM without mentioning this scene from Ep58 Quiet, Please:

EIFFEL As someone once told me: "Pryce and Carter 754: In an emergency, take stock of the tools at your disposal, then take stock again. Repurpose, reuse, recycle." And right now? You know what I got? I got this lighter from when Cutter was using me as his personal cabana boy. [...] and I've got myself this big, fat copy of the Deep Space Survival Manual, and you know what I'm gonna do with it? [...] Eiffel STRIKES THE LIGHTER. And LIGHTS THE BOOK ON FIRE, revealing Pryce just a few feet away from him! EIFFEL I am going to repurpose it... and reuse it... and recycle it into a GIANT FIREBALL OF DEATH! And he swings the flaming book forward, HITTING PRYCE ON THE SIDE OF THE HEAD. [...] EIFFEL That's right! Doug Eiffel's Deep Space Survival Guide, B-

No one other than Doug Eiffel could pull off the chaotic energy of this moment. It doesn’t get much more anti-authority than lighting the mandatory mission manual on fire and using it as a weapon against one of its malevolent authors. It might not be the wisest move safety-wise, and it certainly doesn’t improve the situation when the node gets jettisoned into space. But there is still a powerful symbolism in taking a symbol of the hierarchical forces that have tried to constrain you for years and setting it alight to fight back against those forces. Eiffel takes his own approach to survival and puts his own name into the title, an assertion of his agency and rejection of Command's authority.

The DSSPPM tip that he uses here is one of those he considers when stranded on Lovelace’s shuttle. It’s understandable that after that experience it might have stuck in his memory.

I can’t help feeling that the line “as someone once told me” has a double meaning here. The immediate implication is to interpret “someone” as being Pryce and Cutter – it’s their manual after all – which makes this line a fairly effective ‘fuck you’ gesture, emphasising how Eiffel is using Pryce’s manual against her in both an abstract and a physical sense.

But I think “someone” could also mean Minkowski. Eiffel uses a singular rather than plural term, there’s already an association established between Minkowski and the DSSPPM, and, in Mayday, it’s his hallucination of Minkowski that gets him to read this tip. She's probably also recited this tip to him at other points as well. Under this interpretation, this line is as much a gesture of solidarity with Minkowski as it is a taunt to Pryce. I like the idea that these two interpretations can run alongside each other, reflecting the duality of the use of the DSSPPM that I talked about in relation to the liveshow.

Conclusion

The DSSPPM is a symbol of external rules imposed on people by those with power over them. These rules can be strange, arbitrary, and even sinister, but for those with a desire for certainty and control, like Minkowski, they can be tempting. And they can have their uses, as well as the potential to be repurposed. Attitudes towards these rules provide an effective shorthand as part of Minkowski and Eiffel’s characterisation. And the clash between these attitudes, and how that clash manifests, can tell us something about how the dynamic between those characters develops and changes.

#Wolf 359 #w359 #Renee Minkowski #Doug Eiffel #Renée Minkowski #I guess I lied when I said I was halfway through at 1000 words #I hope that those who liked my preview post were up for a long read #This is over 5000 words and I still haven't said everything!#You could write a PhD thesis on this #Honestly I feel like this is full of typos and mistakes cos I was kinda tired as I proofread it but I just want to get it posted today #Otherwise I could spend even more time on it and make it even longer... (and also I want it to be out in the world)#But please do lmk if you spot a typo/mistake. I won't be offended #I'd also be interested to hear people's thoughts on any of this #Unimportant point but I'm shaking my head at Minkowski if she wouldn't let Eiffel listen to the DSSPPM instead of reading it #Audiobooks are a valid method of reading. Don't deny a man with ADHD his own approach to absorbing info!#Then again. it might have been an unfounded assumption of Eiffel's that Minkowski wouldn't have accepted him listening to it #I think in school he definitely got in trouble for boasting that he's actually read the book this time when he just watched the film #the empty man posteth

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cairavende · 6 months

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Worm Arc 14 thoughts through 14.7 (there is too much for one post, I mean I could probably get four to five posts from 14.11 alone):

The team figures out Siberian's whole "is a projection" thing pretty quickly. Good for them.

I really want to know who ripped out page 325 for the "how horrible of a thing have I done that I don't want shared" check. I strongly lean Trickster but I'm not sure. I want more details on the Travelers and TiaV dammit!

Amy is having a bad day. Probably really a continuation of a bad few days. She probably didn't really need those fingers right?

Skitter criticizing Amy in her head for not being "creative" enough with her power is so on brand. Of course my daughter has already detailed out the complex ways she would use a power she doesn't even have. I love her.

I really wish the Undersiders/Travelers combo would stop splitting the fucking party. If they had just sent everyone after Siberian I bet the could have gotten the dude.

I do have have Skitter has gotten to a point where one of her "start of combat" actions is to just make a fuck ton of bug decoys. Almost without thought at this point.

Have I mentioned how much I love the "writing words in the air with bugs to communicate with people"? Cause I do. It makes sense. It would work. It lets her communicate long range. But it's also very silly to imagine. Very Silver Age in the best way.

Then it gets even better! Skitter makes a full blown animation to tell Amy that Siberian is trying to drop a building on her. Absolutely fucking perfection.

Tattletale maybe misjudged ever so slightly in what she revealed to Siberian. The combo of Siberian just flickering out of existence and everyone being like "oh fuck" was very good.

Amy trying to do her bullshit again and Tattletale having none of it, just destroying every argument before Amy even makes them until Amy agrees to come and help. More than makes up for any mistakes Tattletale made with Siberian.

The relay bugs are super neat.

Fucking high speed mutant dog/car chase. Absolutely fucking AMAZING. I loved every part of it. Ending with Sundancer just dropping a 50 foot wide sun on the road.

Tattletale trolling the shit out of Piggot and the heroes gives me life.

Also, Piggot's phone conversation with Tattletale was basically a villain monologue. For Piggot. Just all the shit about why she was doing it, why it was for the best, the coy little "sorry your teammates are gonna die, it's just an unfortunate side effect". All of it. This bitch is evil.

My daughter fucking tying up Crawler with spiderwebs. HOLY SHIT KID. God damn.

Very Mulan "Get off the roof, get off the roof, get off the roof" energy as they all run the fuck away from the bombing zone.

BUG HORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUG HORSE BUG HORSE BUG HORSE BUG HORSE BUG HORSE!!!!

AMY MADE MY DAUGHTER A FLYING BUG HORSE I'M DYING!

TAYLOR CAN BE THE (BUG)HORSE GIRL SHE WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE!

It rescues her and she has to teach it how to fly and they form a bond and she saves it and it saves her and and and she gives it a NAME! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

She's only had Atlas for a day and a half but if anything happens to him I will burn the world to the ground. Then I'll find another world and burn it to the ground too.

Firebombs don't really do shit but destroy a chunk of the city, probably kill some civilians, and make the heroes lives pretty fucking hard as they have to rely on the randomness of Clockblocker's power.

Also weren't there supposed to be a bunch of Nazis also getting hit by the bombs? One of the only somewhat maybe kinda almost decent parts of the plan Piggot and they aren't even here!

Piggot's plan is terrible and evil is what I'm saying.

The only reason nearly every hero doesn't end up permanently trapped or whatever inside Cache's bag of holding is cause Skitter was there to keep him from being crushed by a car. Well, Skitter and her bug horse (BUG HORSE!)

Skitter got to shoot Mannequin in the back. Very satisfying even if it didn't do long term damage.

Sucks to be Cache. He's . . . probably fine? I mean at least he got everyone out as he was melting.

Really sucks to be Glory Girl. She is . . . uhhh . . . hmmm . . . not dead. I can at least say that.

I mean Skitter got her to Amy. And Amy did stop her from dying. So like . . . she's probably going to be fine. Yep. Juuuuuust fine.

(Look if Amy wasn't a bitch about giving Atlas a digestive system I might be willing to forgive a lot. My daughters (bug)horse comes first. But Amy didn't so I won't. At least Grue was able to help. He gets a lot of brownie points for that.)

Anyway, Victoria needed to take some time to heal the rest of the way so she left completely under her own free will. And it will never come up again.

Bombin' 2: Electric HOLY FUCK PIGGOT YOU REALLY ARE CRAZY Bombgaloo

Kill a few more civilians and maybe Crawler and Mannequin. Destroy more of the city (including the library!) in a way that will probably never be salvageable (I mean at least some of it is stopped in time for god knows how long). Jack, Bonesaw, and Siberian escape. And because of what was done Bonesaw is going to activate her bio-weapon.

Great job Piggot. Gold star. You fucking did it. You saved the city. You motherfucking idiot.

#Worm #Worm Web Serial #Parahumans #Cairavende reads Worm #The Slaughterhouse Nine #Taylor Hebert #Victoria Dallon #BUG HORSE #Atlas is the best #I love him forever #For real though I'm sure Amy is gonna go ahead and fix Vic right on up and set her brain right and then Vicky will be good as new #Won't need any therapy at all #Cause she'll be fine #It's not like Amy has already shown that she will justify literally any action she does as not her fault #So no reason to expect this to go any different then she says it's gonna #Thus Victoria is clearly fine. No further questions. It will never come up again I'm sure.#BUG HORSE!

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aleksanderscult · 5 months

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Confirmation that Leigh Bardugo has actually written chapters of S&B and S&S from the Darkling's POV

(and they're unreleased 🥲🔫)

And here a user asked her "How did the Darkling reacted when he realized that Alina left after the Winter fete?":

So his POVs show us how he reacted then. What he felt and (I bet) if he went to her room that night or not.

And this is confirmation that his POVs also hold important information about his feelings for Alina:

(ignore the user's comments about the Darkling and the "perfect" Mal)

Now. She has either forgotten about them (doubt it) or she knows that if the readers sees them they'll think "Wait. His POVs make sense. He's not crazy after all" (that's more likely).

Now we just need someone to hack her computer and get those scenes.🙂

#I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. I refuse to die until I read his side of the story.#Also. she should let the reader form his own opinion about him. Even if he gains more fans because of them it won't be the end of the world #so I don't understand her reluctance #I would gladly erase the Nikolai duology from existence in exchange for his POVs #wanna bet that they make more sense?#leigh bardugo #the darkling #pro darkling #aleksander morozova #pro aleksander morozova #grishaverse #shadow and bone #siege and storm #grishaverse trilogy #alina starkov #darklina #pro darklina #alarkling #pro alarkling

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kizunarae · 2 months

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a mismatched mess: a fitz and molly essay

In my re-read of ROTE, I am struck again by the profound mismatch between Fitz and Molly. Neither complements the other, and their relationship is fraught with tension and incompatibility. However, what really compels me to write this is what seems to be the prevailing sentiment within the fandom that places the blame squarely on Fitz’s shoulders. I believe that this perspective is an oversimplification and rather unfair to Fitz. The demise of their relationship was not unilaterally caused by Fitz; rather, it was a shared unraveling.

I will be focusing solely on events up to the end of Royal Assassin, avoiding spoilers for subsequent books. I will put it under a read more as it will be long...

I want to disclaimer that while I may appear fairly critical of Molly's behavior, I do not think she did anything particularly wrong and do believe her emotions and reactions are largely justified. It is just precisely because of who she is (and who Fitz is) that I believe they are a bad match. Additionally, I think Fitz's wrongs have been hashed out extensively so I will only briefly touch on points I disagree with and not elaborate overmuch on his failures in their relationship.

I will begin with their first reunion in Royal Assassin. Fitz has just returned to the Keep after being on his deathbed for several months. Each person he encounters barely recognizes him through his wasted and sickly appearance. Fitz, embarrassed by his weakness, pulls a foolish move: he claims to be drunk when a passing serving girl—none other than Molly—crosses his path. His attempt to save face and avoid interaction turns futile. And yet, despite the evidence that Fitz is clearly sickly in appearance, Molly's first reaction is not concern. It is not to hear his side of the story nor to find out how he has been, nor consider anything that he may have gone through. Instead, she is focused only on her own experiences, and her own feelings and thus responds only with pure outrage and begins firing off accusations with misplaced anger.

Without basis, she accuses him of courting her and then abandoning her. I think many take this claim at face value, because "Fitz should have known what he was doing" (as Patience also intoned). However, let's consider the books have established a three-year age gap between Fitz and Molly. Thus, in Assassin's Apprentice, Fitz would have been begun "courting" Molly at around the age of 13-15 while Molly was 16-18. Even without viewing this through a modern lens, this claim feels like a stretch to me. Imagine expecting a young boy, barely schooled in social norms, to understand that strolling through town with a childhood friend equals courtship. No words or actions passed between them that indicated anything more than friendship. I believe Patience's scolding and instructions were fitting and commendable. However, Molly’s internalization of this narrative against Fitz seems misplaced and unfair, given her knowledge of their shared history and relationship.

Then, after he shares his concern for her about what he saw in his dream. She accuses him of purposely scheming and attempting to deceive her; that he must have heard her whole story in the tavern and is just making fun of her. This is again a very unfair characterization for her to place on Fitz; nothing she knows about him should indicate that he would do something like this at her expense.

She has a right to be upset that Fitz kept his true identity from her. But he also had a right to do so. She gave him no grace and despite his apparent weakened state, she did not allow him to give any explanations. Worse, because of how Fitz is, he immediately accepts her view of the situation and berates himself for not realizing the courtship, despite having had no tools of his own to recognize that. This pattern continues throughout their relationship.

And this, in essence, is what makes Fitz and Molly such a toxic pair. She accuses him of things he does not intend or cannot change, and he, like a sponge, absorbs them as truth, eroding his own perspective and identity. And on the other side, I believe Molly deserves someone who will challenge her. Someone to stretch her boundaries, broaden her horizons. A companion who could wholeheartedly dedicate their life to a family and business together in partnership. Because, while not necessarily a flaw, she has blinders on and focuses largely on her personal happiness and fulfillment. She does not want to bother with thinking of the realm, the raiders or the help other families may need. This is a chasm between her and Fitz, whose heart bleeds for his people's misfortune and feels a duty to his station and Kings. Instead of embracing and appreciating Fitz's compassionate heart and will to make the Six Duchies a better place, she frequently berates him and minimizes his feelings by accusing him of only being a mere king's pawn unable to think and choose for himself.

Especially as readers, we know this isn't the whole truth. We’ve witnessed Fitz’s tears for a dead child cradled in his arms, felt the fire of vengeance burning within him against the raiders. Molly has not, and yet, it does not seem she cares to know. To each of Fitz's explanations, she complains and argues. While we only get the taste of a few of these encounters, Fitz comments that it is a frequent topic of contention between them.

Molly wants Fitz to fit into her mold and she wants what makes her happy to be what makes him happy. She longs for the days when Fitz was only Newboy. She says she just doesn't understand the things he tells her, and yet I feel this is the same "not understanding" that Fitz employs with the Fool; in fact, it is very much understood, it is just not what they want to acknowledge as truth. Because Fitz is not Newboy, and because she subconsciously blames Fitz for not being Newboy, she thus does not put in effort to know and accept Fitz for who he is. I do not consider her calling Fitz as Newboy throughout Royal Assassin a simple nickname; to me it speaks of Molly desperately trying to reverse time and put Fitz back in the box she liked him best in.

I think exactly how little Molly knows Fitz is further illustrated by the Nighteyes-as-Fitz scene. It is a weird and, in some ways, humorous scene, but what struck me is how Molly appears to know Fitz so poorly that she did not sense anything amiss about an intimate encounter with a literal wolf in Fitz-clothing.

Returning to Fitz's identity and 'lies' throughout their relationship, I personally do not believe that Fitz owed her the truth of his identity from the beginning. It was a deeply personal matter and I believe it was not wrong for him to keep it private. As a young boy, he felt his status as a bastard was deeply shameful, and it is no wonder he would not share it. In my opinion, he would have a duty to disclose if he had truly begun to court her, however he was never given this chance.

So, did he continue to lie after his identity was revealed to her? I do not believe so. He shares much with her about what he does, and about Verity and King Shrewd. It is not a question to me that he would not be able to disclose every detail of what he knows; his knowledge of his kingdom's affairs and his identity as an assassin are not entirely his secrets to share. There are surely modern equivalents of this as well. It is hardly unusual to be unable to share some portions of one's work with one's partner. However, Molly deems this as unacceptable and unforgiveable, despite her lack of interest in what he does— a further inherent incompatibility in their relationship. Instead of offering understanding and support for the isolation that Fitz must feel for being in such a position with his Kings, she resents him for things he has no real power to change. Keep in mind if he had left the Kings' protection at the time, his life would surely have been threatened as Chivalry's was lost. Molly should be able to understand this, and yet she cannot see past her current unhappiness.

In her time at the Keep, Molly also puts a large amount of pressure on Fitz. She is out of her element, she has had a traumatic experience, she knows no one at court. And so, she often complains to Fitz that he doesn't spend more time with her. In a very unhealthy way, she attempts to force him to be everything for her at the Keep— her only social outlet, her support, her protector. Due to this, her resentment for Fitz and his choices grows with every moment he is not with her, and she spends much of their time together asking him to turn away from who and what he is to start a life together.

In the end, both hold the other up as idealized versions one could never hope to fulfil; Molly wants Fitz without his royalty or passion for his people. Fitz yearns for Molly, stripped of independence, her self-driven, entrepreneurial nature tucked away. In their relationship, they offer only moments of fleeting comfort punctuated by feelings of sadness and blame. They cannot fulfill each other's expectations. Molly is unable to bolster Fitz's confidence in himself and the peace and acceptance he desperately craves remain elusive. And likewise, Fitz cannot offer Molly purpose or allow her the sense of security she desires under which to prosper her business and family.

And so, these two are ill-matched and ill-fated, clinging through each other to the last vestiges of a childhood they wish they did not have to leave behind.

#i do like her as a character #im just am confounded people see it as a true romance #she never really does anything for fitz?#and he only is with her for what she represents to him imo #i also have a lot of feelings about neurodivergence #and everyone just expecting fitz to Know Things #maybe i will write about that another time #i think generally people really cut molly too much slack throughout royal assassin #she was lonely and traumatized and wanted fitz to be her everything #she didn't want to be a servant #she wanted him to go help her start her livelihood again #all very understandable #but not healthy or romantic imo...#kizuna rereads #rote #realm of the elderlings #assassin's apprentice #royal assassin #fitzchivalry farseer #i won't tag this as molly #since it is critical #also be nice to me #i haven't written something like this in a long time #i also have quotes to support my conclusions but i didn't include bc it was unwieldly and unpleasant to read

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artheresy · 3 months

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An argument over whether or not Dan Heng is Dan Feng seems to have begun getting sparked again in certain parts of the Fandom and it does nothing but hurt my head to no end

Both sides cherrypicking or treating it like a strange situation, making false equivalents. "Yknow governments don't consider people who've lost their memories to be separate people" that's a flawed argument to use in favorite of DH = DF because it's not just he lost his memories. He literally grew up, experienced his own childhood, had a whole identity cultivated based on those experiences and that life and continues to live his own life. To treat the situation like it's just him getting a bit of amnesia is wild to me

But also I hate when people continue to insist he's running from Dan Feng and his past and how he's miserable and shouldn't ever confront the past and deal with it as if his and Blade's whole stories aren't centered around rebirth and karma, paying for your past life's karma. He needed to confront the past to ensure a freer future! He literally has!! And he will continue to do so because he realizes this, DH isn't dumb and he's grown since we first saw him. He understands

But yeah uh I'm so tired

This whole thing feels very Ship of Theseus. What makes the ship what it is, the physical aspects of its planks, its sailing history, or both?

For him, the question is what makes someone who they are? Is it the body that makes them up and any inherent genetic factors (like traits)? Is it their experiences, how they've grown up, and the identity they've developed in that time? Or is it both factors mixed together?

Personally in the case of Dan Heng, I think it's both! Yeah he has a lot of traits from Dan Feng. There's a lot inherently there. But we can't disregard his own experiences and the identity that has formed based on his history and what he's seen.

Again I can't stress this enough... It is a false equivalent to compare him to people who lose their memories or get amnesia, he didn't just lose those memories. He started life from the beginning, a whole different kind of life. And even then, the amnesia topic comes with its own debates. Isn't there a whole other thought experiment regarding someone put to trial who ends up with amnesia and what their verdict should be?

I guess in the end, it's all up to people's own philosophical beliefs after what constitutes a person. My personal belief that DH and DF will always be connect but the separation between them is also meaningful is something based on my own ideas of what consisitutes a person and their individual identity, similar situation with how I see Rukkhadevata and Nahida as connected but still not the same person exactly. At the end of the day again, it's personal beliefs

But what I can't stand and can't stand by, is someone acting all high and mighty like they're perfectly right and everyone else is wrong, especially when they're cherrypicking or not holding all their evidence to the same standard. According to some ppl, apparently it's better in the CN fandom where instead of treating it like "I'm right you're wrong" people have divided themselves into "DF and DH one person" and "DF and DH two people" groups and most importantly of all, they treat both like theories and just keep to their space and tag which they believe when it's relevant. Why can't we just do that? Why can't we follow in their footsteps instead of bringing up this argument every so often with the same tired flaws from both sides?

#Lore discussion in this community can be so tiring #I wish more people would be open to their viewpoint being challenged instead of believing they can never ever be wrong #And seeing people throw out wild accusations #Like someone saying people are transphobic if they believe dh is df like what?#I get it if you identity with dh and read it as a trans narrative personally even if I dont #Doesn't mean you can call people transphobic over it #I dunno I'm tired #Everything I see this topic I get mad #“He says you're my past in the ichor of two dragons!!”#He also says right after “But you won't follow me into my future” so your point is?#Additionally if we're being 100% real that animation feels like it's less about his rejection and eventual acceptance of DF specifically #It feels more so like his rejection of the role of Imbibitor Lunae given what I've talked about about the DF being there would never say #Any of those things how it's based on his biased view of him and is a projection of things he was told growing up likely #So I'm tired #One of the only good arguments I've ever seen to say DH is DF is in regards to how he clings to DF's old stuff #I have things to say about it personally #But it's a MILES better argument than some of the other ones I've seen and even then my arguments against it would still be an up for #Interpretation kind of thing like the initial argument rather than pointing out someone is looking at the full picture #Again I respect how people see it! Believe what you want to believe about it again it's all about our own perspectives #Just don't be a dick to people on either side if you don't agree with them #Dan heng #Dan feng #Hsr #Honkai star rail

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tls123 · 4 days

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Oh my god HOW DID YOU LIKE SVSSS!!!!!

i liked it more than i thought i would but overall less than i might have given the potential of the story, i think in general i really enjoyed the characters (mxtx never goes wrong with characters, she creates them in a way that makes me feel unhinged) and the world building but the pay off to the set up—which i really liked!—felt a bit........ i mean, just alright.

the dynamics too are pure mxtx, personally the bin/gqiu dynamic specifically really was the least interesting part of the whole story. to me!! but individually i loved both characters. my interest was just elsewhere because """elsewhere""" felt way more fascinating idk how to explain it

was very, very happy about the extra with airplane and the yue qingyuan / shen jiu one because that's exactly what i wanted more of in the story itself as well as just more shen yuan/qingqiu interacting with cang qiong mountain

maybe it's my orv brain but like i told jana a while back i think i would have enjoyed svsss way more if it was more about shen yuan (loner; hater; etc) suddenly finding himself among all of these people (disciples looking up to him; sect siblings relying on him one way or another; common folk admiring him; etc etc) and starting to.... live? again?

Shen Qingqiu hadn't noticed that, unconsciously, he no longer considered the disciples around him (...) to be mob characters the novel had described in a scant number of words.

^from volume one, he starts seeing them almost immediately because he's not actually that separate and he genuinely cares. all the time. about everything. even before that we get:

This was only a book, and all the people were constructs, imaginary characters. Logically, Shen Qingqiu was very clear on this fact...but when a character was actually being taunted and bullied right before his eyes, it was just flat-out unrealistic to expect him to be completely unmoved.

like why are you lying, shen yuan (<- svsss tagline if there ever was one)

just the idea of this really lonely detached guy finding a community, i know it's not the story mxtx was trying to tell but again, with the set up i really wanted to see it go in that direction.

there's one line from vol two where liu qingge goes "you fear becoming a burden to cang qiong mountain (...) but cang qiong mountain fears not your burden"

and basically what i'm saying is that i wish the story had been about THAT

(and also ning yingying's lines in that same chapter about shizun always taking on everything himself and why is it always you like that whole moment with the cang qiong mountain almost begging him to see that they care. idek what i'm saying but you know)

(also foaming at the mouth that we only got tiny tiny glimpses of shen yuan's life from before, those handful of times he mentioned his siblings i wanted to take a bite out of my kindle. tell me more!! dear fucking lord tell me more!! keep talking! elaborate!! he really felt very "kim dokja and his fourth wall" at times, sorry once more about the orv brain)

tldr: i guess i wanted a story about shen yuan/qingqiu but mxtx created svsss to be a story about bin/gqiu. and i just have to be okay with that.

#does this make any sense? no. am i still hitting ''post''? yes. sorry kay #fra.txt #fra.xml #pathos-logical #overall i quite enjoyed obsessive lu.o bin.ghe. so intense and possessive about the one person who showed him a little kindness #(so what if he also showed him a lot of pain too here and there?)#but like i said the bin.gqiu dynamic just didn't pull me in. of course to each their own #(''one person'' but poor yingying was trying to help him since day one.)#but also..... to me it felt like his arc was the least satisfying. he just.... is. whereas most everyone else seems to evolve more tangibly #right now i can't help but think of tianlang-jun. ''i can't bring myself to hate humans''#not to mention all the women from his harem becoming characters in their own right #i wish i could explain myself better but i don't have the words. sorry!#l.uo bin.ghe you ARE interesting i just feel like your story could have been more #as an apology here's my favorite line of yours: ''I don't want you to repay me. I just couldn't get over my anger''#see?? i pay attention to you too baby boy #i should re-read all of ^^^ that but i won't </3 #edit: one thing i forgot to mention is that i did like the small snippet we got of bin/g-ge reacting to shen yu.an/qin.gqiu #like now that's something that immediately caught my eye it already made for such a more fascinating dynamic.#also i've seen a few things about shen yua.n (not trasmigrated) getting to meet bin.ghe/bin.g-ge and again that i would take a peak at #fully black lotus bin/g-ge coming face to face with shen ''i'm a hater but also can't help but be kind all the time'' yu.an truly pickles #my tickle. i'm sat. i'm listening. i'm compelled.

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