#victimgate
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Mike - Vecna's 4th victim
I know that many people believe that Mike was a tool for Vecna to get Will and El back or that he waited for Mike to be gone to California. I have a pretty different perspective on this and I want to share my thoughts about this. I just gonna warn you that this post will be quite long but I would appreciate it if you take your time to read it.
For the tool-theory and waiting to be gone-theory I have two simple reasons why I don't think that they are correct.
When Vecna kills Chrissy Mike is still in Hawkins. He doesn't wait for Mike to be gone/sitting in the car/plane and traveling to California. Vecna kills her mere hours before Mike had no possibility to interfere with him. It's not only that Vecna kills Chrissy, no he kills her in close proximity to Max who could have been more suspicious about Eddie, Chrissy and the lights and could have called a CODE RED, which would have led to Mike not going to California. So if he wanted Mike to go to California (either for him to be gone or to get El/Will back) why would he jeopardize this mission by being too impatient?
If Vecna wanted Mike out of the way why didn't he just kill him? I mean we can all agree that pre S4 Mike already has a massive amount of trauma. So if he needs Mike out of the way he could have just cursed him too, couldn't he? There was nobody to stop him from doing it. El? Out of the picture. No powers and too far away. Mike? Wouldn't be able to help himself during a trance. The Party? If they don't know what is coming, how would they prevent it?
So I think Mike wasn't a tool for Vecna. He was a perfect fit for a far more important role.
He was the Chosen one, the fourth, the final sacrifice.
But before we are going to discuss Mike's role in Vecna's plan in detail, let's take a step back and take a look in the things that actually happened in S4.
Specifically everything that has to do with Patrick and his curse. Because there are so many things wrong with Patricks curse.
First of all Patrick doesn't fit the other victims. Timing wise as well as in his trauma and our connection to him and his connection to other characters on the show.
Timing
Patrick is the only victim that we see getting cursed. This happens on the March 23rd (sunday) at some point during the day (morning or noon I guess). (here the scene where he gets cursed)
This is in direct contrast to the timeline which is presented by Max. For further explanation this is also March 23rd but late in the evening.
So let me get this straight.
Chrissy's curse started a week ago (approximately week = seven days. I made this post where I found a specific date when Chrissy's symptoms started and they are not adding up. But I think it's because it's meant to be not the curse itself that's coursing these symptoms but something else which I will talk about in another post)
Fred's started six days ago
Max's five days ago
And Patrick just that morning (basically one day ago)?
In no way this is supposed to happen. What was the reason? Did Vecna forget to curse Patrick four days ago? Or couldn't he decide who to curse 4 days prior?
Well the most logical reason (imo) is that his actual target can't be targeted. And we do know one character who was in Hawkins and left during the season. And that's Mike. But this is not the only reason Patricks timing is off.
With Patrick being cursed there is a change in the way the curse works for Max and him in comparison to Fred and Chrissy. I won't go too much in to the details but here are some observations.
Chrissy and Fred both have 3 visions that are heavily paralleling each other.
Their 1. vision is related to the people around them. Chrissy thinks that Max is still in the room when the pounding on the bathroom stall starts. Then she hears her mothers voice and Vecna's feed come into vision. Her mothers voice get distorted soon after and Vecna's voice fades in.
Freds first vision is also directly connected to a conversations he is having with Officer Daniels. Daniels also fades in to Vecna. His face and his voice.
The second vision is the grandfather clock. But a very creepy version.
With Chrissy it's spiders with Fred it's people turning into Vecna calling him murderer.
The third vision is there death and relieving their nightmare.
Both die on the end of their 5th day of being cursed. Their visions start during the day and the day ends with their death.
In contrast to this Max curse is put off this timing. Max visions start on the end of her 5th day of being cursed and she has 3 visions with different themes than Fred and Chrissy.
Max's 1. vision is the grandfather clock. But it's only the creepy grandfather clock. No spiders and no link to Max's trauma.
Her 2nd vision is like Fred’s and Chrissy’s 1st vision a person who fades into Vecna.
her 3rd vision is supposed to be her death which she can escape from.
She has a 4th vision where she actually dies.
Patrick only has one vision we see and one that is implied but we don’t see at all.
His first vision is the clock during Chrissy’s funeral.
the other would have been when he dies but we don’t see the vision.
Timing wise this implicates the scenario that Patricks’s cursing throws the timeline off schedule because we see a clear pattern before he was cursed which is thrown off the second Vecna targets him.
So likely the original schedule would have targeted Max on the 23rd and the 4th victim on the 24th.
Lack of imagery and missing build up
His trauma, connection to other characters and the connection we build to him is also off. While most of it is due to the lack of imagery regarding him but also to the fact that we have a build up in this topics that Patrick is reversing.
I don’t really want to order the trauma of Vecna’s victims in terms of severity because I firmly believe that any trauma should be addressed and recognised and you shouldn’t compare trauma (unless you’re a therapist) because this kind of invalidates the people with “less severe” trauma.
But when we talk about Patrick’s trauma we only have two clues about what it is because we don’t see visions that are related to his trauma.
The first one is when he gets cursed (here). A man, likely his father, calls him a disgrace.
Lucas also tells us that Patrick came to practice with a black eye once.
This implicates that Patrick is also a victim of domestic abuse (like Chrissy)
What I find interesting is that this creates a circle of trauma themes.
(I want to emphasize that between Fred and Max there is a build up because Fred has survivors guilt and Max has survivors guilt but also wanted the person that died to die before he died. This is obviously meant for us to notice because it’s an addition to the same theme)
Ignoring the potential build up in the trauma and going into Patrick’s relationships we see that he doesn’t make sense as 4th victim narratively speaking.
We have a clear build up in the victims relationships with other characters:
Chrissy has no known relationship to our main characters
Fred is Nancy’s colleague and apprentice (Fred asking Nancy how she did this with Jonathan). They are close enough (Nancy trusts him enough) to take him to the Trailer Park.
Max is a main character of the show. She has many close relationships to other main characters
And then Patrick comes around and he is just Lucas’ team mate who he can’t even trust because they are hunting for his friends.
The connections to other characters get closer and closer until Max only to go rapidly down with Patrick. Narratively this doesn’t make sense because Patrick is supposed to be the 4th victim. He should have close ties to our favorite characters and they should care deeply about him because of the needed rise in tension. They get around it with Max escaping the death vision and being the actual 4th victim but for the original plan this would have been very weird.
This also ties to the connection we as an audience have to the victims.
Chrissy is a new character. We only see her in one episode and we barely know anything about her. Most of what we know is that she is a cheerleader and she has trauma. Although many people sympathize with her we can’t really get connected to her.
Fred is basically the same. But we get more information about him. We know he is a journalist. We also know that he does know about Jonathan and Nancy and their struggles in their relationship (which he kind of wants to take a chance in because he flirts with Nancy). We have two episodes with him.
We have known Max since season 2. We had a lot of time to get to know her and create a bond with her.
And yet again Patrick doesn’t make sense. Why do we get a new character which we don’t like because he is part of the antagonists, after a (beloved) main character? There was a subtle build up and then we flunk down in the negatives with our perspective on the character.
I wanna add that in an recent reblog of a post i discussed Mike's parallels to the other victims. You can find the post here.
But how does Mike fit in?
Most people on here are well aware of all the hints that connect Mike with Vecna. Therefore many people believe he is a target in S5. I believe so too. I still don’t think that so much has changed during S4 that made him more targetable than he already was. Yes his trauma increased through the shootout, the death of unknown hero agent man, lying to El and losing Eddie and Max, but his trauma was there before. And it was severe enough to make him struggle. It’s pointed out in the canon extending book “Lucas on the line” and it is also shown in his behavior in S4 (getting up too late, used clothes, dirty room/basement, he doesn’t eat on camera, and more). So Mike would be a perfect target for Vecna only considering his trauma.
But there is way more stuff that make Mike a perfect last puzzle piece in this situation.
First of all he is one of the few characters that are in Hawkins when the curses begin and have more/deeper connections than Max. Yes Max has a lot of deep connections (the Party and El specifically) but Mike has those connections too and he has deeper connections to the teens (Nancy and Jonathan especially), Will, Joyce and Hopper. So in a certain way he is more connected to the rest of the cast and would be perfect to be the final step of the build up we see with character relationships.
He has also been part of the show since S1 and was one of THE main characters in S1 and S2. He has a very important role in figuring out important plot points and so for us he is obviously a very important character. And so while I don’t play favorites he is slightly more important for the audience (subjectively speaking).
Timing wise (as I said before) he is the only character we know to travel out of Hawkins during the cursing. Him being cursed on March 20th (thursday) wouldn’t compromise the given timeline.
It would also explain this scene where Mike clearly looks like he has a awful headache.
And this scene where Max has a nosebleed and the camera’s focus shifts to him
(some people believe that’s the moment he cursed Max. I doubt that. When Max explains the symptoms she said nosebleedS, plural [Insert Eddie’s comment on Nancy’s guns here].I believe that’s thursday morning and Mike was just cursed and had a nosebleed like Patrick and he looked like he looked because he found it suspicious that he had a nosebleed and now Max has a nosebleed.)
Clearly two times where he was visibly shown in the context of the curses symptoms. Also his bedroom scene, when he reads Els' letter could connect to the symptoms (this is more of a reach than the other two).
Sleeping in underwear => He woke up an a cold sweat
The binder with Will’s drawings is in his room => having nightmares and needing comfort
(re-)reading the letter => having nightmares and needing reassurance that everything is okay
he is later than he usually is => trouble sleeping
Also I think @aemiron-main pointed that out: Mikes Reaction to Karen telling him that he need to be home by nine because it's an early flight suggests that he barely sleeps because he seems to not care of the early flight.
And last but not least the line Vecna uses for Max (You’ll be the chosen one, the fourth the final sacrifice) fits way better to Mike. Why?
Well the main reason I only got on the Mike getting vecnaed’ train was while I was rewatching the show I saw this scene where El screams for Mike while she has a vision:
This scene reminded me of this scene where Will does the same:
And it made me think about how Vecna knows that both of his former targets heavily depend on Mike. He is the first they think about when needing help. He’s the first they find comfort in when upset. So Mike is obviously on Vecna’s radar.
There is more….
These two scenes where Max and Mike help El and try to protect her and Billy sees it.
They stand out because it would make so much sense for Mike to be targeted too. Max does become a target because of her trauma but also because of her connection to El. So Mike would be a perfect target too.
Him being the final sacrifice would be the peak of devastation for both Will and El and would make perfect sense for Vecna to do so.
Also it would contrast Mike’s arc because he is usually the one interfering with Vecna’s plans in overtaking the real world. Mike being the last kill to open the gates to the UD would be very “poetic” from Vecna’s POV.
Furthermore the line “You would be the chosen one” would be far more fitting for Mike. Mike is a fan of fantasy stories. The Chosen One Trope is a typical fantasy trope that has been used for ages. Mike can relate far more to this trope than Max (Max is a comic fan where this trope is used too, but Mike is pictured way more with classic fantasy where this trope is used very often).
But why did Vecna wait for Mike to go on vacation?
This is the only thing that really makes me struggle. Because I don’t have a good answer to this. The only possible explanation I see (without doubting the rest of this theory) is that Vecna didn’t look for his plans, his supposedly happy memories/thoughts and only took in the bad ones. Max tells us that she thinks Vecna only looks for the bad memories.
So if Max is right then Vecna didn’t look for the light in Mike’s mind and only for the darkness. (Therefore didn't see his hope of reconnecting to Will in Califronia)
I also want to point out that Mike is not the only target Vecna needed. He needed four victims. So this is not solely about him. And you need to know that Vecna feeds off his victims fears, anxiety and guilt. So it makes sense for him to unleash his curse when all his victims are especially tense/anxious
Chrissy’s mother forced a beauty idea on her daughter that resulted in her being connected to bulimic tropes (Throwing up, rotten food). She is also a cheerleader in the 80s and she “needed to be pretty” because the championship games were coming up. So Chrissy would be more anxious than usually
Fred is less obvious than Chrissy. The only clues I got why he would be more anxious than usual are that Officer Daniels (Vecna Vision) tells us that the accident happened last year and he knows about Jonathan and Nancy’s relationship problems. The first could mean that the car crash happened somewhere in 1985 or it could actually mean that the anniversary is coming up which (knowing from S2) would affect Fred through the anniversary effect. The latter could make him anxious because he might see a chance with his crush (we see him multiple times openly flirting with Nancy)
Max would be more anxious because Billy’s birthday is coming up (March 29 - also anniversary effect)
Mike would be more anxious because he is traveling to California and he doesn’t know how Will feels about him and maybe he is a little jealous because of El’s letter and Will painting something for a girl
Additionaly the week before spring break could be full of tests which could make all victims more anxious.
Another good question regards the timing. Vecna did look for a replacement for Mike on March 23rd but Mike left early on March 22nd. So why did he wait an additional day for Mike?
This is obviously a question I asked myself a lot. Why did Vecna wait for Mike to be gone for a whole day before looking for a replacement (Patrick)?
Well this one is very hard to answer. But there is one scene in particular that makes me believe that Vecna starts his rampage usually early in the morning. You can take a look here in this post.
I included the scenes right before and right after the scene on purpose because it gives us a better perspective on the timeline.
So right before Vecna gets hooked up to the vines, El went to her bedroom crying. We know that this happened on the night of March 22nd. Then it cuts to the UD where Vecna gets hooked up but nothing happens afterwards. Instead we see how the sun rises/travels in the sky. Then it cuts to Lucas and the beginning of the hunt for Eddie.
So what is the purpose of this whole scene?
Vecna wanted to start the final stage of his curse (visions) for Max early on the 23rd. This is probably what he was doing with Chrissy and Fred the days before. He recognized that he couldn’t find Mike anywhere and then started to search for a replacement until he found Patrick. Very important for this theory, Vecna finds Patrick way later. There are almost 20 Minutes between this scene and the scene where Patrick gets cursed. Even more important: We see every group on screen before we get back to Vecna. There is literally a cut to every small group. First Lucas and the Jocks, then Max, Dustin, Robin and Steve with Eddie, then Nancy, the Cali Gang, Joyce and Murray, Hopper back to the Hawkins gang at the Trailer Park.
I think Vecna didn’t recognize Mike’s absence because he was solely focused on Fred on the 22nd and started with Fred visions early in the morning before Mike got to the airport. So when he wanted to get started with Max the next day he realized that he couldn’t reach Mike anymore and decided to go for a replacement. That’s when the timings of the victims don’t add up anymore.
Besides everything I showed you here there is another theory that is connected to this. #possessiongate from @dinitride-art
This shows how my theory is supported visually in the show. It also explains why Mike isn't shown as cursed after the breakfast on the 23rd because his curse was shifted to Patrick.
#byler#mike wheeler#victimgate#mike gets vecna’d#mike getting vecna’d#stranger things#stranger things 4#stranger things analysis#st analysis#st theory#stranger things theory#mike wheeler analysis#vecna's curse
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Theres also the picture used on his profile, wich depicts him holding the typical theatre masks, the smile at the front while hiding the sad one behind his back, and other hints for him using toxic optimism and humor to hide how much he struggles.
I've also read somewhere that he could be suffering from victimg blaming even in subtle ways (as in, you are poor 'cause you dont try hard enough' or 'you dont deserve any better')
I even read someone saying he doesent feel guilt
He does!! He just wont show It unless he's on drugs or suffering from a head injury
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I made this post because I wanted to make a poll about the gates but couldn’t remember them all. Thanks to you people I can now make not just one but several polls, because there are so many options. So here’s Round 1 and Poll 1:
I will make Round 1 Poll 2 right away and Round 2 once the results from both of these are in, so stay tuned! 😎
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I’m so mad. I left home thinking that everything would be different, now that I was away from my mom. But my roommate… they’re the fucking same. Just this afternoon, they tried to gaslight me, then when I called them out for it, they said I was shouting at them. Later on, they apologized for how I perceived their actions, that they were sorry I thought they were frustrated, then brought up something I did last weekend (which was also very much not me shouting), and how I should feel sorry about that too, and how much my shouting affects them, and how they’re really sensitive to that. Like, it’s all shitty behavior but I can’t fucking leave. My school has a system for it, sure, but I have nobody else here. I’m in another country. I’m stuck. Again. And I keep telling myself “this isn’t forever.” but it’s a lot harder to believe it now that the thing I was banking on as my escape has gone the exact same way. It feels like it’s my fault. Maybe it is. I know it’s more likely for abused people to fall into abusive relationships. But like, this isn’t a choice. I know this is abusive. I just can’t leave.
I’m so sorry this happened, nonnie. While I think there’s some truth to the statement that abuse victims can more easily end up in abusive situations again, you didn’t choose to be around this person or to stick around; you were paired randomly and they happened to be an abusive person. This isn’t your fault, and there’s nothing you could’ve done to prevent this, even if it doesn’t feel like it. And the fact you’re mad about their behaviour and you were able to recognise it as abusive is already a huge step you deserve to be proud of.
I’m really sorry there’s nothing you can do to leave this situation 😔 sending support your way ❤
#ask#abusive roommate anon#abuse tw#abusive mother#abusive roommate#toxic roommate#gaslighting tw#victimg blaming tw#emotional abuse tw#abuse#physically disabled anon
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.
#stop atop stop stop stop sotp#holy sfuvking shit#stop talking ylur such a fucking mess what the fuck is wrong with you#bad abd abd abd bad ba dba d#fucked up youre so fucke yp they were righg you are jsut a monster#aything yoj toucht anyone you talke to you just ruin everything#yo u cant do shit oh ny god youre so fucking atupid#stop crying atop crying stop crtutn#you arenot allowed to be sad about this you shojldnt have to be feeling like this you were the one qho did bad bad bad#you dont have any right to feel sad tmdont cry dot cey sont sty stop#youre so fucking disgusting you dont get to cry and feel like a victimg now die die dief die#just dont taln again never again stop stop stop hurting peopel#mental tag
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You know at first I kinda liked r3g1n4 but then the writers glorified her and her fandom made it really hard to like her, they were/are so hateful and the actress encouraged their madness and hope for things that we’re not going to happen. And that’s like a huge turn off for anything, so I went from kinda liking her to absolutely dislike her, and since they started to make the whole show about her I started to only watch the captain swan scenes, I didn’t enjoy the plot and I only liked Emma, hook and charming
Yeah, nonnie, that’s exactly my stance on Regina. I loved her as a villain in seasons one and mostly two - she was clearly depicted as the villain, and we were clearly supposed to root for her being defeated by Snow and Emma. In season 3, she started to develop, going back an forth between “I don’t regret anything” and “today I am” (to Zelena’s “so you’re a hero now?”), but she tried, and her ambiguity was presented as such. At the end of season 3 I was ready to enjoy and really embrace her redemption arc... and then fucking season 4 happened.
Starting with the patented “you ruined my life” etc. and they made Emma beg for her friendship??? I remember with disgust what Lana said about this episode especially - that Emma accepted Regina’s wrath, because she felt that she sort of deserved it. Victimg blaming, and nothing else! Yes, you’re sompletely right about Lana - she has/had a very vocal fanbase (many of them SQ shippers) and she catered to them tirelessly.
There was also clearly a shift in the writing - it was obvious that we were supposed to feel sorry for Regina now all the time, sorry in a way that we were supposed to see her as that person who had redeemed herself so perfectly and still was fucked over all the time and had her Happy Ending unfairly snatched away. She was constantly presented as this mistreated and misunderstood character, all the “you put the Evil in my name”, “the monster you made me”, “I can’t get a Happy Ending because the author wrote me as a villain”... and in 4b the author, Isaac, even said that she was the character who was “screwed over the most”... ex-fucking-cuse me???
OMG and in Camelot, when she told Zelena “You got a second chance, and a second second chance, you can’t keep painting yourself as the victim, it’s absurd” I was like ??? And it continued like that. Regina’s lament to Emma after Killian came back from the dead, the split Queen arc, stuff like “We save people” (about the Mills family), or having adult Henry tell her “you were the first person who loved me” was a slap in Emma’s face.
Regardless, I always had the ability to ignore and quickly forget what I disliked, so I used to roll my eyes and move on when stuff like that happened, and went on enjoying what I liked. So I still was able to enjoy the show where it was enjoyable.
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not a prompt
Geez, I don’t get Adrien stans (and Marinette bashers) at all.
They say that Adrien is abused to justify his horrible attitude, and keep hating on Marinette because she doesn’t like his advances and she is creepy stalker and has pictures of him in her room (which is for them somehow more offensive than Adrien sexually harrassing her for three seasons straight and him doing more messed up things) but, uhh…
If you use that very logic on Marinette (I am just trolling so sorry if I offend you somehow), then she has every right to act horrible and even worse seeing that she is tormented by Chloe and many times has to sacrifice what she wants even when she doesn’t want to.
If they want to say that Adrien being abused means he is justified in acting that awfully, they should also apply that logic on every other character as well.
So using this logic, the entire cast is full of nothing more than a bunch of misguided characters who were never actually wrong at any point at all.
But, that’s what double standards and misogyny are for in their minds.
To justify their own flawed and horrible perspective.
Exactly!
By Adrien stans’ own logic, they’re victim-blaming me for being upset about me hating Adrien!
By their own damn logic, since I was abused, that means that everything I do is a coping mechanism that is above reproach!
And they throw fits when Chloe and Lila harass Adrien (a grand total of, like, what? Ten times? At max?) but then make excuse after excuse after excuse for why there’s nothing wrong with Adrien’s behavior in every single episode and a movie across three whole seasons now.
They’re literally just misogynists. They literally just hate women, and would rather demonize victims of abuse in an attempt to protect a PREDATORY FICTIONAL CHARACTER from criticism than they would actually supporting victims of abuse.
Adrien stans are horrible people. They’re misogynists, they victim blame, and they demonize victims of abuse, all in the name of defending a fiction cis straight white boy billionaire who sexually harasses women for fun and punishes them when they don’t go out with him.
Literally the next time one of them tells me I’m victimg blaming Adrien by calling out his misogyny, I’m 100% gonna tell them that they’re victim blaming me for telling me not to be upset with Adrien’s behavior, since, by their own logic, I’m abused, so I can’t be held accountable for anything I do wrong, and if you have a problem with me you’re victim blaming :) :) :) :) see how they fucking like it when their idiotic argument is turned against them.
#ml fandom salt#miraculous ladybug#ml salt#Adrien Agreste#Chat Noir#adrien salt#Chat Noir salt#bold text#submission
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@ the anon ask I received a few minutes ago.
I’m not publishing that, because I don’t want your bullshit on my blog. But I’m just... completely baffled by what you’re saying. How the fuck do you think you have the right to get mad at me for “forgetting you” while also literally hiding behind the anonymous wall.
If you are who I think you are (I have a hunch, but obviously I could be wrong) this is just confirmation for me you’ve always been an asshole. And this ask is just the final straw I needed.
You love jumping to conclusions. You love reaching. You love playing the victimg. You love putting words in my mouth. You love acting like you know why I do the things I do.
But guess what? You don’t fucking know me. You don’t know why I do the things I do. And I don’t have to cater to your needs.
Have a good fucking day.
#btw the anon asks I got last night were lovely and I'll reply to them in a bit!#need to calm down from this first...#ooc#mun rants#anon hate#anon#ask
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I believe that we, as a fandom, sometimes understimate C's wickedness. Why he has to be the victimg of RM and D's deals? I think that C is heavily intelligent and he is getting something for him and D out of this association. The saying "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" is very true, and C is a master of games hidden in his secret corner.
I think it’s critically important for everyone to remember that D’s not so private public life directly impacts C’s life and career. And I have no doubt that every major decision is made together. C is insanely intelligent. Also incredibly protective of the person he loves most in the world. And fully aware of what they are up against. I believe he was heavily involved in deciding RM is the future and is absolutely keeping his enemy close as long as he thinks it’s to their advantage to win this war. But no question he has his eyes wide open.
Remember we know very little about what’s going on behind the scenes. What promises were made. Whose actually responsible for the sham mockery. D&C know everything and are learning from every mistake. I’m trusting them as they are the 2 that have lived this nightmare everyday for 9 years.
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hey so like 10/10 for aesthetic and shit but,,, noah still acted like an asshole and that half assed apology was meh considering “i told you to not go to him” is victimg blaming so yeah. oh and also a 2 min clip for a reunion felt underwhelming bc it was rushed as fuck,,,,,, im going to need a clip of them talking things bc this aint it
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I don’t know why people criticize 13 Reasons Why for the “Love is the cure” because it’s not like that.
People misinterpret the dialogue between Clay and the psychologist just for stupid memes, but the psychologist said that “you can’t love someone back to life”, HE SAID IT. Maybe you have just listen better and look deeper than the surface.
He makes it clear that love is not a cure from death. Clay’s answer is due to his trauma, to his youth, to his suffering, to his search of hope. Clay was hurt in this painful journey, he lost people who loved, and it’s normal in that case to think about “what if? Could I do something to change this fate?”
And it’s normal for processing mourning.
But don’t forget that “you can try” showed Clay’s maturity. Because he never tried to change something, to change for better, to open himself to others and help them besides he would but he never acted. Of course Clay couldn’t save Hannah, that’s not the point.
The show didn’t point out love could save or anywhere close. It pointed out the flaws in today’s society.
“It has to get better, the way we treat each other and look out for each other”
Because no one cares. You are depressed, or fat or just different? You will be mocked, bullied, abandoned, or worse.
The scourge of this generation is the lack of empathy: THIS IS THE POINT OF THE SHOW.
So you must not underestimate such things like comfort, support, affection … they can help you in times of difficulty, they can help you get through the day. Obviously they will not save you, but they can be a little help… just a simple “how are you?” or a bit attention may mean a lot for you…
Because loneliness sucks. That’s another point of the show. Same people that are shouting let’s talk about mental health are the same folks who would never give you an open ear to speak into. So we are always alone and wanting to die, we are constantly alone and misunderstood, nobody checks on you cause everybody thinks we’re so negative and bad like a disease. And then nobody cares if you want to kill yourself. Sometimes with their toxic behavior and victimg blaming they are going to push you too in that fragile line. And you feel lost. Love - sometimes - does go along way because people need somebody to talk to and support. And when you have depression nobody wants to talk to you until you’re dead. Majority of people are hypocrites. Most of people just watch somebody suffer without doing nothing till they die, then you love posting on there wall how much you wish you listened and could’ve saved them, but when you could just do something, just listening, you treat that person like it doesn’t exist, like they’re causing a problem. And then you fade away.
This is not the right behavior! We must educate each other to be kind and good, to work in human interactions, to despise bullying, to do not turn away and help the victim, in any way.
This show doesn’t want to teach that love is the cure for everything, but that YOU MUST NOT DOING THE LITTLE SHIT, and that human support can be a little help to go on.
#13 reasons why#13rw#13#hannah baker#netflix#positivity#positivevibes#suicde#tw suicude#suicdal#warning suicidal#mental health#mentally ill#clay jensen#justin foley#alex standall#jessica davis#hannah x clay#dylan minnette#alisha boe#katherine langford#love simon
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I think you're right on the tinder anon (and possibly even the "don't pat dogs, it's belittling" post. wtf was that too, most dogs will knock you over just to get love lol) being the same judgemental asshole thinking they can tell you how to live your life. In that case, fuck off dude, Jany is a smart, badass woman that can make her own choices. Abusers just know how to play their shitty games, don't blame her for what that piece of shit did. Blaming her makes you a shitty person too, so...
Ya exactly like I have no idea what the need u point of that message was in general. And I really do not appreciate the whole being a dick under the cover of “I’m being kind” type deal. I reblogged “dear past self you fucking idiot ” , that is not an opening to suddenly rip into me about my past, of things that I’m very aware of myself. I’ve been constantly pointing out how I’ve been working on myself as a person and how I’ve been just building myself back up after all this. And how I do not intend to let a person like that in my life again, but I am incapable of predicting the future, and you never know a person’s true colors beforehand. Manipulative people tend to really charm you in with all you love and all your weaknesses before they kick you to the curb. And by then it’s already too fucking late. I have such a bitter taste in my mouth from that ask honestly. I really don’t take kind to victimg blaming at all.
thanks so much for the love and support tho, it means so much because I really let that shit get to me too much. ❤
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you said he busts his open for the older men around him, assumingly irving, jeff, rob, rande. since he's known all of them since he was a teenager you did indeed imply he's been groomed. that's okay girl - some people get off on victimg blaming. rub that clit, google that underage pornogrophay, go off! also do you think louis is sad dumping his load in briana has made her more famous than him now?
No. that’s YOUR assumption but thanks for telling us what you think happened!
I actually think he busted open after the failure of HS1 (I don’t even know the name it failed so hard) and HS2.
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Vecna's curse and Time Fuckery
OMG! I Noticed something that ties into the general time fuckery happening.
So I've been talking about the timings off the killings back in the day and how it's weird that Chrissy talked about her symptoms with Ms. Kelley on March 13th.
Which is super weird because Max talks about Chrissy's symptoms on March 23rd like this
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Which doesn't really make sense for me because Chrissy's headaches started 10 days prior to the day Max talks about them but she is referring to the start as a week ago. Which in context of the rest off her reference is basically saying 7 days (without saying 7 day straight).
So I tired to explain that with Chrissy's symptoms from the 13th are not the real curse symptoms but something like a pre curse. But since we are talking about time fuckery and Vecna all the time (courtesy to tag @aemiron-main and @henrysglock here) I think it ties into something else.
So when I analyzed my #victimgate analysis I was talking about how the timeline Max is giving us the implication that the cursing went like this:
March 17th -> Chrissy gets cursed
March 18th -> Fred gets cursed
March 19th -> Max gets cursed
I don't talk about Patrick here because I don't think he was an original victim but rather a replacement for Mike (my whole analysis about it is pinned on my blog). Following the timings Mike would have been cursed on March 20th.
So considering the timeline I just mapped out Chrissy and Fred died on the 5th day of being cursed. Max's timing is off since the original 4th victim is replaced by Patrick on March 23rd (the 5th day of her curse) and she gets her vision later that day and the day after.
Considering Vecna's connection the 5th day seems odd unless you consider my math here about the curse:
4 days off Symptoms
4 nights off nightmares
1 day with 4 visions
4 visions you may ask? Yes 4 visions. Both Chrissy and Fred likely had 4 visions. The first one is just not shown to the audience.
Max says that Fred and Chrissy both died less than 24 hours after their first vision
So how did Ms Kelley know that Fred was having a visions if his visions started at the Trailerpark and he than vanished into the woods to end up on the street where he finally dies?
And how did she know about Chrissy's vision if she did go to Eddie to buy drugs after her vision in the bathroom stall?
Well for Chrissy it's pretty simple:
We know she has fixed appointments on thursdays (see the first screenshot). So her going to Ms Kelley on Friday (March 21st) is an out off the ordinary visit. And what would trigger such a visit? Likely her seeing a creepy grandfather clock attached to a wall before waking up and the clock is not their anymore. And why would she so upset? Well if someone tells you that everything bad that is happening right now is just all in your head.
For Freddy it seems more complicated at first. Until you remember where we see him first at on March 22nd. He is at school. In the newspaper room. And he easily could have went to Ms Kelley if she was at school too. So she would know about his vision too.
So since we have established how I think the curse works now get back around to the timer fuckery.
Remember what I initially talked about how Chrissy symptoms started on March 13th according to the notes from Ms Kelley. So you know how their are too different dates for the creel murders. March 21st and March 25th (if not check out @aemiron-main's posts about it). So if we do the Math here and consider that the victim's were cursed in a day's interval each we have the following situation.
In the timeline we get presented by following the Date from the first episode (March 23rd when the Hawkins gang breaks into the school) we have the following situation:
March 17th -> Chrissy gets cursed
March 18th -> Fred gets cursed
March 19th -> Max gets cursed
March 20th -> Victim no 4 gets cursed
March 21st -> Chrissy dies
March 22nd -> Fred dies
March 23rd -> Max dies
March 24th -> Victim no 4 dies
March 25th -> Anniversary of the creel murders
So if we now go back to the note from Ms Kelley and do the Math again but starting from March 13th we have the following situation:
March 13th -> Chrissy gets cursed
March 14th -> Fred gets cursed
March 15th -> Max gets cursed
March 16th -> Victim no 4 gets cursed
March 17th -> Chrissy dies
March 18th -> Fred dies
March 19th -> Max dies
March 20th-> Victim no 4 dies
March 21st -> Anniversary of the creel murders
Coincidence? I think not.
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