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deargodhelpmeaaa · 1 month

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A comparison between Berdly and Papyrus.

Papyrus and Berdly both are over the top, emotional, egocentric characters, and have many simularities, but also many differences, and that's what I want to talk about today.

The first is that that Papyrus wants people to love him, but values himself a lot and wants to leave meaningful impacts on the lives of other people. He believes in himself and his abilities despite everything going against him.

Berdly, too wants to be loved, but he does not value himself and tries to act smart because he believes that if people see him as intelligent, they will value him. Without his intelligence, however, there is nothing to value. He does not believe in himself, and even after all the studying he does, he still doesn't even consider himself as intelligent.

That being said, Papyurs also might be putting up a facade. For instance, he will change his opinions on things sometimes to get people to like him more, as seen in this phone call dialogue:

"Papyrus: GRILLBY'S? WE'RE TOO REFINED FOR THAT GREASEHOLE. Undyne: WOAH, if you go, you HAVE to try the cheese fries. Undyne: They're AMAZINGLY bad for you!! Undyne: Oh, sorry, Papyrus, were you saying something? Papyrus: JUST MONOLOGUING ABOUT MY LOVE FOR GREASE!!!"

Which is very much so a symptom of someone who puts up a facade, meaning that if he had been congratulated for something he considered a part of his intelligence, could Papyrus start acting like Berdly?

No. I don't really think he would. Papyrus is sweet. He'd probably be more encouraging of others to get smarter, too. I think he'd help everyone be smart, instead of trying to put himself on top like Berdly does. Like, yeah, he might say like "One of these days you'll be as smart as The Great Papyrus himself!" or some shit. This is because Papyrus opens his heart for everyone. He has faith in everyone, and this facet of his character can be seen in his neutral ending and death.

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Papyrus works hard to be what he is and understands the value of self improvement. He has some genuine talents, too! Berdly works hard, too, but doesn't see himself improving at all. He sees himself as just inherently worse and more forgettable than everyone else, crumbling at the forces working against him.

This is why he gets so excited about Susie, when he's told that he can make mistakes, taking it as that he should be stop trying to be smart all together.

Still, he doesn't value himself, taking her and Lancer's words as that he should reject pretending to be what he's not, and instead be what he thinks he truly is: stupid.

Both characters have an inferiority complex: Papyrus gets less attention than his brother, Sans, and Berdly saw himself as being "forgettable" prior to winning the spelling bee, and also acknowledges that he isn't as smart as he acts like, and that Noelle is "the real smart kid."

Both characters lack friends, and are bad at picking up on social cues.

Both characters get tricked or manipulated (Papyrus by Flowey and Berdly by Queen).

Both are brave.

Papyrus is loved, however the people who love him (Undyne and Sans) coddle him, and he's kind of treated like an idiot. Berdly's situation is kind of the opposite.

Berdly is not loved by anyone, and doesn't really know what it is even like to be loved, and it gets to the point that he mistakes any form of affection for romantic affection. This can be seen in how he assumes Noelle has a crush on him, his random crush on Susie that lasts until the end of the chapter, or how he thinks Kris is hitting on him when you check up on him after the Queen bossfight.

This can be seen most vividly when the major turning point in his life is being congratulated by his peers for winning a spelling bee.

His relationship with Queen seems to parallel his relationship with his yet to be seen mother, as he is ignored, unloved, and seen as annoying. So, of course he has a low self worth, and of course he tries to pretend to be something he's not to get the love he craves, because without his smarts, what is he?

His closest friends are Kris and Noelle. He talks down to Kris constantly, as a means of showing off to them and proving himself as their better. He does care about and enjoy their company, and they seem to like him enough to want to play videogames with him, and are clearly upset by his death. Noelle is not that close to him, but sees the best in him, and while she finds him annoying, she still cares about him.

I also think that their friendship might not last? He actually thinks of a theoretical life without her in the future, stating, with finality:

Berdly also indicates that he really adores Noelle.

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He doesn't just love her because she's his only friend. He doesn't just love her because she's the one helping him with his studies. He just loves her for who she is. He cares about her deeply, but he understands that their friendship won't last forever, or at least he thinks that it won't. Poor thing.

It may be because he has little to no support system that Berdly is a lot less willing to see the best in others, and more apt to try and prove himself as their better, as he does with Kris. Papyrus on the other hand, has a better support system, even if he is coddled (especially by Undyne).

Both characters are able to pick up on when there's something off about someone, but Berdly's course of action, seeing as how he doesn't look for the best in others like Papyrus does, is a bit different. He actually takes a stand against the player when he sees them acting strange.

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The player, who mind you, is controlling one of his only friends.

This being said, Berdly is still NAIIVE AS FUCK. His reasoning for attacking Kris there was because they were hurting Noelle, who he values deeply, and wants to protect. That's one of his goals in chapter 2: protect Noelle. If you were trying to reach out to him, appeal to his interests and prove yourself as worthy of his admiration, yes, of course he'd agree to do any stupid or terrible thing you told him to do. He'd look past your obvious faults in that situation because he's just that desperate to be loved. He is VERY easy to manipulate and we see this in his relationship with Queen.

In the Snowgrave route situation that leads to his possible death, though, he can't look past your faults. They're right on display for him. He doesn't care that this person is someone he thought of as a friend. Someone he knows and adores is in danger, and he's going to do what he can to protect her.

Papyrus is different. He wants to help you. That's his goal. He just sees the best in you, and wants you to change. He reaches out to help you be better. He wants you to be better because he has faith in you! All of this, after seeing that you have already been hurting other people.

So, both are aware you hurt someone, but both approach the situation differently, because both are fundamentally different characters. In both Berdly's death scene and Papyrus's, we see that they want to help their friend: Berdly wants to protect her, Papyrus wants them to change their ways. Berdly doesn't care about you changing your ways at all. He sees you hurt someone he loves, and he acts. Papyrus sees you hurt people he loves (potential friends/ monsterkind) and he acts.

There's a lot else I could talk about here, but I think you get the idea. Feel free to add onto this or correct me on anything I may have gotten wrong ^^

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damiel-of-real · 8 months

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how did i fucking only just realise that this tree is meant to represent toriel. am i the only one who didnt know this

#now i just want to cry. what the fuck #toriel being an “old tree”#utdr #utdr analysis #(sort of)#undertale #toriel #toriel dreemurr #damiel bullshit hours #damiel rambling hours

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springbloggy · 10 days

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Mini Deltarune theories I have that are not quite big enough for a true post, but interesting to note. In order of most confident to least.

Ralsei is luring the lightners to the Dark World in order to trap them

In chapter 2, Ralsei creates rooms for Kris and Susie that "they can go to no matter what is happening outside". Unlike Queen's rooms, which are guesses based on search results, Kris and Susie's rooms are accurate to an unsettling degree. Not only is Kris' room identical to their light world counterpart, but it also has all of Asriel's trophies on their side of the room with Asriel's side gone, a reflection of their potential secret desire to no longer be under Asriel's shadow. Similarly, Susie's excitement on even having a room suggests that Ralsei could know what Susie's light world home life is like or lack thereof if she's homeless.

By creating these rooms, Ralsei is fulfilling the lightners secret desires and judging on his phrasing, wants them to go there in order to avoid whatever is happening "outside" the dark world. By doing so, he is effectively strengthening their desire to stay in the dark world so they can't escape.

Chapter 3 isn't going to be Undyne or Napstablook, it's Asgore

Chapter 3 taking place in Kris' home with the fountain being created by Kris suggests to me that the world may mostly involve whatever the Dreemur family drama entailed, which would include Asgore who was the former chief of police. Not only that, but the combination of Toriel having troubles calling the police and the station being closed in a preview for chapter 4 suggests to me that Mayor Holiday could have closed the station during the night of chapter 3 after they failed to catch the mysterious criminal wrecking Hometown, leaving Asgore as the only character left who might want to resume his policeman duties when Toriel's call is made. It is also more fitting for Toriel to kill Asgore in the hypothetical chance the Snowgrave route continues with her as she already dislikes Asgore and possibly blames him for Dess' disappearance. Speaking of...

Asgore really was involved

There's a lot of weird forshadowing on an "evil Santa". Lancer believes that "ho ho ho", a laugh associated with the mystical Christmas gift bearer, being an evil laugh. Noelle is also scared of Santa and it's revealed in Undertale that Asgore dressed up as Santa to give gifts to the monsters. All of this seems setup to me that Asgore really was somehow involved in letting Dess disappear, something that may be revealed during Chapter 3's Snowgrave route.

Dess is ruder than she appears

This is a more playing by expectations theory, however there's certain lines and implications that become interesting once looked under the lens of this theory.

It's revealed that Dess once beat Kris with a wiffle ball bat for scaring Noelle by telling her that ICE-E "eats kids". This puts a precedent that Dess has at least somewhat violent impulses in order to protect her sister, even in situations that don't need it. It's also a bit odd that unlike Asriel, no one in the hometown mentions Dess after her disappearance except for Noelle. Even Berdly, Noelle's best friend, doesn't bring her up. It could be that the hometowners may not want to hurt Noelle by reminding her of the disappearance, however since she's so open about talking about Dess to even new kid Susie it may be another reason why the hometown doesn't mention her. It's possible that the simularities to Dess and Susie (both are horror loving, somewhat violent, tomboys) are deliberate and are setting up the reveal that Dess is/was actually a bully and a future scene with Noelle may parallel the scene in Undertale where Asriel reminisces that Chara wasn't that good of a person.

Gaster blasters are named after Gaster, but not created by him

If you spare Papyrus in Undertale after an aborted Genocide run, he will say this.

The most common theory is that the "Special Attack" would be a Gaster Blaster. What's interesting to me is the phrasing "my Special Attack", which suggests that Papyrus owns this attack and it could have been unique to him before Sans or the annoying dog stole it. If Gaster Blasters are really his unique attack, it could mean that Papyrus created the Blasters and named them after Gaster, rather than the fandom interpretation that Gaster made the Blasters then gave them away.

There might not be a singular "Knight" because anyone can dream

At the end of each chapter, the characters ask if the dark world adventure they had was some sort of dream. Since anyone can fall asleep and dream, it's possible the game is setting up that trying to seal the fountains is impossible because anyone can dream and thus become their own "knight".

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #deltarune speculation #utdr #utdr theory #utdr analysis #utdr speculation #undertale #undertale theory #undertale analysis #undertale speculation #deltarune meta #utdr meta #undertale meta

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princeyralsei · 10 months

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idk about you guys but i personally am obsessed with Flowey/Azzy and Sans' dynamic.

like. Imagine being in Flowey's situation.

He's caught onto the resets. He knows you, and he knows what you're doing. But he doesn't truly know who you *really* are, not at all. Even if you did tell him, he would never remember. But he always somehow manages to figure out that he's talked to you and fought against you before, without any memory at all. He doesn't need memory to see right through you.

Through the resets, he has "dunked" on you numerous times. You call him "smiley trashbag". You hurt his friends. You hurt his brother. He wants to bring you to justice. What he doesn't know is that you took so long to hurt Papyrus bc of how close you were. How long it took until there were no more interactions to compensate for the empty, gaping hole inside of you.

An eternity later, you're on the surface, and his puns still frustrate you. You get to hang with his friends now. You get to make new memories with his brother. Be part of a family again. No one but the human knows of your true identity. But you suspect he's starting to catch on by the way you look at your parents when you think no one is watching.

Also, he probably fucked your mom. He's ur stepdad now btw. You wonder what your life has come to.

It's kind of comforting.

#anyway this got long i hope it's coherent #utdr analysis #undertale analysis #undertale #sans #flowey #asriel #asriel dreemurr #sans undertale #asriel undertale #flowey and papyrus #ut character analysis #flowey analysis #sans analysis #my posts #my post #hermie's rants

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shopkeeps · 2 years

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I think one of the most interesting aspects of Mettaton’s character is his love for humans and human culture. In fact, I think it’s one of the most important parts!

Starting from when Mettaton was a ghost, you can already see his love for humanity

Just looking at his room, you can already see what appears to be a human poster (though I’m not sure what it’s supposed to say?). This was likely gotten from the garbage dump in Waterfall, where garbage from the surface falls into the underground.

In his diaries, it’s also shown that his love for humanity is how he ended up meeting Alphys. He made a human fanclub, which Alphys attended and ended up becoming Mettaton’s friend. This also lead to Alphys’ offer to make a body for him.

This is the body that Mettaton (trans icon) always dreamed of having, and what does it look like?

Well, needless to say, I think it may have been inspired by humans. Something to note is that he seems especially inspired by the 80’s. Not only does he share a resemblance to David Bowie, he has a love for glam rock in general. His battle theme is quite literally called “Death by Glamour”. On top of that, he also sells items at MTT Resort with names like “Glamburger” and “Starfait”.

So at this point, the inspiration he takes from humanity is pretty clear…. Even if it’s a bit misguided. So why does he want to take Frisk’s soul? Mettaton himself says that he has no desire to harm humans.

After Asgore collects all seven human souls and breaks the barrier, his plan is to destroy humanity with the power he gained from the souls. Now if you’re Mettaton, this isn’t exactly the ideal outcome. Mettaton’s biggest dream is to become a star on the surface. Meeting Frisk is the best opportunity he’s been given for this. Not only can he save humanity by taking Frisk’s soul before Asgore can, he can finally make it to the surface and live his dream. From his perspective, if he can save all of humanity, taking Frisk’s soul is worth it.

Now of course, in the end, Frisk wins. He accepts this and is even convinced by his fans’ calls to keep being the star of the underground. But this isn’t without having some sort of assurance that humanity is safe, he puts that into Frisk’s hands.

tldr: Mettaton is a human fanboy and a lot of his actions are driven by that!

#mettaton my beloved #undertale #utdr #mettaton #mettaton undertale #undertale analysis #utdr analysis #mettaton ex #mettaton ex undertale #analysis

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somegrumpynerd · 2 months

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Do you think it bothers Dust that Killer doesn't seem to have any remorse for doing the same things that haunt him in a very literal way? Do you think it bothers Killer that Dust pretends not to feel anything when he's lost the luxury of feeling? Do you think it bothers Horror to hear that Cross was raised with his Alphys like a sister when his betrayed him? Do you think it bothers Cross that Horror is part of the gang when he still has an au and people to go back to, where Cross feels like he'll never have his again? Do you think Nightmare gets them all happy meals when they've been good?

#UTDR #UTMV #Nightmare sans #Bad sanses #I'm not tagging everybody for this because I turned it silly #It was a lil bit real analysis I just can't be serious for too long or I'll die #I just wonder about potential tension in the gang #And whether or not they all get happy meal toys to play with so Nightmare can have peace for an hour

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megaderping · 2 months

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Time and time again, people have tried to discredit Alphys' work in the Determination Experiments by crediting at least some of the True Lab entries to Gaster. A recent theory making the rounds has once again misled people into taking this as fact, and in this video, I take a critical look at the entries to prove that Alphys wrote all of them as well as debunking several of the arguments used to claim that Gaster was involved. Sources include both Undertale and Deltarune, the Undertale Gaster twitter takeovers, the Legends of Localization book, and the recent Valentines newsletter. My goal in this video is to put this argument to rest, as it relies on many cherrypicked pieces of information that really don't hold up under scrutiny and are a disservice to Alphys and Gaster both.

#undertale #alphys #dr. alphys #gaster #wd gaster #undertale meta #undertale analysis #utdr #true lab #dr alphys #video #Youtube

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inbarfink · 7 months

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Any analysis of how Undertale deals with Pacifism and how it tries to guide the Player towards it has to take a deep look at Papyrus. Because Papyrus is the one character in the game who will never kill, the one actual ‘True Pacifist’ in the game’s main cast.

I mean, the Player can be an even bigger Pacifist. Papyrus does still FIGHT, and the Player can get through an entire run without draining a single sliver of HP. But… they can also be the world’s biggest murderbastard and literally stab reality to death.

Toriel would very much like to not kill, but she is also fully capable of doing so.

Same with Asgore, but he has a lot more actual blood on his hands. Undyne and Mettaton are both fully 100% willing to kill to accomplish their goals. Sans is non-violent in most runs because he’s too lazy and depressed to do anything, and when he is motivated into actions - it is in the form of a FIGHT to the death. Alphys… the timeline is a bit fuzzy cause both she and Mettaton love lying so much, but it seems like she did sincerely add deadly weapons to Mettaton cause killing humans would make him more 'useful' and then had second thoughts once she developed a parasocial relationship with the Human Child and THEN she and Mettaton started hatching their little play-acting plan. I think??

With Papyrus there is NONE of this ambiguity, we know for sure - no matter what timeline or what may come - The Great Papyrus will always choose MERCY.

And the interesting thing about that is on a Meta-Sense, Papyrus is a very rare example of the game giving MERCY towards the Player.

Because the game starts out being really obtuse with the Sparing mechanic and how it works. If you want to be a Pacifist in Undertale from the get-go, you’re gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to figure it out on your own and commit to it and believe that it's possible. It's basically a test of your own belief in non-violence and your moral integrity. Then, the RUINS end with the Toriel boss battle - in a way, that’s probably the hardest Sparing puzzle in the whole game. And it’s very very easy to accidentally kill her. (I’d almost say that’s the intention of the battle, to try to goad the Player into Resetting so they can see how the game remembers across RESETs)

And then we have Papyrus, and it’s not just that his ‘Sparing Puzzle’ is something as simple as outlasting him and letting him run out of dialogue - and it’s not just that he’s the only boss that will just give up and let you continue if you lose to him enough times. it’s also that, just as Papyrus is the only boss incapable of accidentally killing the Player - he’s also the only boss that the player is incapable of accidentally killing.

(Okay, fine, to be pedantic, there’s also Asgore)

I mean, the Player can certainly kill him if they want to - but draining Papyrus’s HP just makes him skip through his battle dialogue right to the end of it. It’s designed in such a way that, no matter what Route you're on and no matter what approach you take with Papyrus - you will always end up on this screen.

Unlike basically any other Monster in this game, including the major boss battle just before him - you can’t kill Papyrus accidently. You can't kill him without also having Sparing him as an option. The game kinda treats killing Papyrus as one of the Worst Things You Can Do because killing Papyrus will always be a deliberate, considered action done to a person who will not kill you and who has stopped wanting to FIGHT and has extended a hand of Mercy. With the game clearly communicating what you need to do to Spare him at that moment.

And that means that - even if you killed before, even if you don’t have the patience of a True Pacifist, even if you spent all this time in the game without even trying to engage with the Sparing mechanic… as long as you don’t want to be a Huge Rat Bastard, the game is basically gifting you with the very very easy option to not be. Being a Pacifist in Undertale is usually a challenge - a puzzle to be solved, a test to pass. But as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to be the Worst Person - the game is basically giving you Papyrus.

If you accept his Mercy, you are accepting the game’s Mercy. That sort of benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that maybe all of the LOVE you might have accumulated so far was all due to honest mistakes or panic or an attempt in self-defense. That you still deserve this one chance to prove that you are not intentionally, maliciously cruel - or at least not like the Worst Person in the World. Even if you did kill before, you still deserve at least one friend.

And Sparing Papyrus leads you to his wonderful Hangout/Dating Sequence and to his Phone Calls and they all add so much wholesome charm to the Undertale experience and no matter what happens Papyrus will always think the best of the Player and he will always trust them and it also makes Sans also kinda your buddy by default. And more than just adding a little bit of wholesome charm into even the more LOVE-filled Playthroughs, I think this is meant to try and incentivize these players into trying out the Mercy mechanic a bit more.

Whatever it’s, like, for future playthroughs or Resetting the game right there to try a True Pacifist Run right there and then or just trying to be a little kinder for the rest of this current playthrough - especially since there’s an emphasis about the close friendship Papyrus has with the upcoming boss Undyne, and to a lesser extent with his idol and next-next boss battle Mettaton. It’s like “well, if you didn’t figure out how to spare before, this is how you do it? And isn’t it nice to have a friend? Isn’t it nice to not have to kill this lovable skeleton man? You should do this more often wink wink nudge nudge!”

And it’s like… all of Papyrus’ loved ones care about him so much but they also look down on his pacifism. They see his inability to kill and desire to make friends as simple naivete and that’s why all tend to hide the truth from him all the time. About what will happen to the Human he will capture, about what his new Human friend might’ve done, about the fact that they view him as so naïve.

They admire it on some level, that’s why they want to protect it, but they also see it as a weakness which is why they want to protect it by lying to him all the time. But, you know, Undyne says that if Papyrus goes into battle he’ll be ‘ripped into little smiling shreds’ and that is certainly what happens every time a Player chooses to refuse Papyrus’ Mercy and the game’s Mercy and press that FIGHT button…

But have you thought about all the times that doesn’t happen? All the careless or violent players who were offered that skeletal hand of friendship, accepted it and then carried that offered kindness forward for the rest of the game? All the players motivated to do good for the sake of their buddy Papyrus? All the Murder Routes stopped because the player just didn’t have it in them to kill someone who believes in them so earnestly?

Like, no, it’s not a surefire thing - especially since Papyrus has so much less narrative power than the Actual Unkillable Time God that is the Player. But it happened, and it happened many many times to many players. Papyrus offered Mercy, the game offered Mercy. And much like Frisk’s Pacifism, it comes from a place of seeing the honest goodness in your ‘enemy’ and can inspire them to become a better person - this little sparkle of goodness being passed forwards.

And I think that’s beautiful, even if it didn’t happen in every timeline. Any potential future where Papyrus’ kindness can have such an effect on the Player and thus the entire trajectory of the Underground validates his kindness and pacifism on some level - even if there are also always the potential worlds that it backfires completely.

And there’s also one other way in which the Great Papyrus Proves Pacifism Pays. One that is a bit more practical, perhaps. And one that Papyrus himself is not even aware of.

Papyrus’ boss battle can be a surprisingly challenging one specifically because he is the only one who doesn’t kill the Player.

Like there is a reason why Papyrus will just offer you to skip his Fight after you lose to him three times, because if he didn’t do that - there’s an honest risk that the Player can get stuck in a much stuckier way than anywhere else in the game.

Because, like, for basically any other character in the game, being killed is the Worst Thing that could ever happen to them. For everyone except the actual Player Character because we are an Actual Unkillable Time God and dying is nothing more than a minor annoyance that sets you back to your last SAVE Point. So, leaving aside Papyrus’ admirably kind intentions - there is not much material difference from the Player’s perspective between getting Captured and getting a more traditional GAME OVER. Except…

Except getting Captured does not undo everything that happened in your inventory during the battle. In every other Undertale battle, if you use all of your items but still lose - the GAME OVER at least means you get your stuff back. But because Papyrus doesn’t kill you, any healing item you’ve used during the battle is still used. I have watched so many Undertale Let’s Players waste all of their valuable items on their first Papyrus battle and then have to face him again without them and thus do even worse in their second go… and then their third go... and thankfully then Papyrus offers them to skip the fight.

And while that technically can be circumvented by just manually closing the game and opening it back again on their pre-battle SAVE Point, a lot of players are gonna reflexively Save over it if they pop over to the Shop or the Snowed Inn before their second attempt at the battle. If Papyrus didn’t offer that chance to skip his battle, it could’ve easily become a softlock situation for a huge chunk of players - because he doesn’t kill the Player.

Most of Undertale deals with the value of non-violence from a standpoint of morality and kindness and personal connections. Since most people do die when they get killed. But when dealing with an Unkillable Time God like the Player, Papyrus proves that not-killing might actually be the most practical solution.

Of course, it doesn’t seem like Papyrus is aware of any of this. From his perspective, he is just offering genuine mercy to a being just as ephemeral as he is. But it accidentally turned into one of the most effective methods of blocking the Player’s way… at least he didn’t offer us an opt out so soon after that.

And it’s interesting when comparing him to how his brother Sans - one of the few people actually aware of the existence of SAVEs and RESETs - deals with the Player. Because the Sans boss battle at the end of the Murder Route is entirely based on the concept that death is nothing but an annoyance to the Player. Sans is less trying to kill the Player (the way Undyne the Undying did), he is simply trying to annoy the Player into a ragequit. But he is still killing the Player.

Now imagine a Sans battle where he has all of his usual annoying tricks, but also instead of killing you - he captures you just like his brother would’ve in a happier timeline. And while it’s not a fool-proof plan to stop the Player in their tracks - he could very easily stick them in that sort of softlock situation where they have to battle him again and again without any Healing Items. Forcing them to either abandon the game or RESET the whole world back the way it was - just like Sans wants them too.

But instead, by killing the Player, he is just allowing that perfect second-third-fourth-fifth-sixth-try where they get all of their Stuff back. And he does actually knows that. And why doesn’t he do that? (Speaking here from an in-universe character study perspective. Obviously the Doylist answer is that the game doesn’t want to Softlock you even in the most deliberately-frustrating part of the game).

Maybe, even though he intellectually knows that killing the Player will be of no help - he still does it because he wants to. Because he just wants to get back at the evil murderous monster that took his brother from him and destroyed his entire world even if he knows it’s actually ineffective. And this thirst for bloodshed is, ironically, blinding him from a new exciting way to actually practically stop that murderous bastard who is themself motivated entirely by bloodshed.

Maybe he just can’t do something like that. Reducing an enemy to exactly one HP and then stopping is not a feat anyone else in the game is capable of pulling off - even the ones who would obviously use such a thing (like Toriel or a Player with a Pacifist intentions). Maybe it’s something that requires a lot of hard practice and discipline and carefulness, that Sans never thought to put in because he didn’t see it as a useful skill the way Papyrus did.

Maybe that wouldn’t have worked anyways. After all, and that’s something I kinda touched on in a previous Overly Long Rambly Hot Take - Sans’ War of Attrition against the Player is greatly helped by the fact he can’t remember every single previous try and so he can’t get exhausted the way the Player can get. Obviously, without a GAME OVER induced RESET that will not apply. Which is especially notable because… Sans’ laziness is literally what brings him down at the end of that Boss Battle.

So maybe, while Papyrus, as long as you decline his offer to skip the battle, is capable of offering just the same Battle as before over and over and over again.... It’s possible that Sans just won’t be able to pull off two or three or more battles of the same intensity and difficulty in a row without a RESET to undo his own exhaustion.

But I think it’s at least worth considering the option, y’know? That after all this time of viewing Papyrus’ kindness as sweet-and-yet-kinda-foolish-naïveté - that exact viewpoint made Sans overlook the perfect solution to dealing with his little Murderous Time God problem. Cause he just never considered that while killing might be fully morally justifiable in this situation and very very satisfying, that does not necessarily mean it is actually the most practical solution. And that maybe, in a weirdly twisted way, Pacifism WAS the answer.

#undertale #ut #utdr #under tale #papyrus #the great papyrus #papyrus undertale #papyrus ut #sans #sans undertale #sans ut #sans the skeleton #papyrus the skeleton #undertale analysis #undertale meta #genocide route #genocide run

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obsessivefangirl · 10 months

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This is incredibly small but I have noticed that Papyrus' mannerisms of speaking is not often replicated. This is not to shame people who don't use it, keep having fun! Hell, I know I write Sans terribly because I am bad at making up puns, so he doesn’t make any, and I refuse to do full lower/uppercase in my writing. But for anyone curious or wanting to sound canon applicable, here's some stuff:

He doesn't shorten anything.

Actually, the brother's speech patterns are rather opposites! Sans slurs, does not enunciate, and will leave letters off.

Papyrus will use full grammer and not contractions, even if it sounds weird.

Papyrus uses quite a few long terms, while Sans uses very simple words.

This isn't speech per se, but Papyrus does like puns! He makes his own. My personal headcanon is he thinks Sans' are just frankly bad ones, but it's actually likely he enjoys Sans' puns

Papyrus is more formal. Sans is informal. We see this with the Japanese version especially with honorifics.

Papyrus will put more exclamation marks and quesrion marks than most.

Examples!

Sans is first, Papyrus second. They also speak in lowercase or uppercase but I can't sustain writing like that 😔

"What's up?" "What is up?"

"Fogetaboudit." "Forget about it!"

" 'm Sans." "I am Papyrus!"

"Dunno." "I don't know!"

"Hey bro." "Hello, brother!"

As a rule of thumb, Sans puts less care in his words, while Papyrus, like everything else he does, will put 110% in it. Also yes I realize this was meant to be for Papyrus only but Sans is actually a really good place to point to compare.

#undertale #my ramblings #papyrus #sans #character analysis #i mean??? their speech analysis at least #utdr #sans undertale #undertale sans #papyrus undertale #undertale papyrus

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zorubark · 4 months

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To me, I feel like the weird route has an aspect to it of the horror of cisheteronormativity.

Many players or deltarune fans project a male identity onto kris, while they are non-binary, the cisnormative, and then along with this pairing them with the most girl obssesed girl, the heteronormativity. It's like it represents the horror of having no free will combined with how most stories are cisheteronormative, many times watching, reading, etc, a story that has queer elements but the characters are forced to stay cis, to "accept" traditional gender roles, to be straight, it feels like the author is forcing the characters, just like the Weird Route, I think it's a meta commentary on the fandom and media in general.

#deltarune #snowgrave #weird route #deltarune spoilers #kris deltarune #utdr #kriselle #kris #kris dreemurr #toby fox #deltarune analysis #noelle holiday #noelle deltarune #deltarune noelle

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sukifoof · 10 months

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hii i was talking about this on twitter so i think i will just copy paste it here cuz i’ll probably delete it there at some point <3 twitter frightens me but i love my mutuals here we are all insane about flowey in the same way

i think saying “you’re the type of friend i wish i always had” is a really important thing for asriel to admit... this whole time asriel has dealt with so much grief and guilt about chara that it separated the actual person chara from the idealized version of them in his head who he has never stopped grieving. its a huge part of his character that hes unable to view them as they were because that’s just how his ptsd and guilt affects him. as someone who went through a similar thing that kind of grief can mess with your head and how you view yourself and the person who’s gone really badly. the pacifist route, for flowey’s character specifically, is a really good example of how grief and ptsd can make you feel disconnected from yourself, everyone around you, and like if only the person you lost was back everything would be perfectly fine again. the fact that he can admit they weren’t perfect and that he made the right decision is a huge character development that we don’t get to see in the no mercy route because he’s still convinced that this idealized version of them birthed from bereavement will make everything okay. similarly to how he believed toriel might have been able to fix him, he wants to believe there’s someone out there that could somehow return him to who he was before being traumatized, but the reality of it is this is just who he is.

his grief and trauma is a huge part of who he is like it is with real people, but it doesn’t have to be all of him. i think the emphasis the fandom puts on whether chara was Good Or Bad completely misses the point that it doesn’t really. matter i guess?? they were a kid people loved and now they’re gone. we're seeing people deal with the grief this brought and we know so little of who they are because there’s also a degree of separation about who they are to the people they loved as well. idk i hope this makes sense i think a lot about how chara is a kid who hated humanity and calls themself a demon. to me that just shows an EXTREMELY traumatized child with self hatred. i don’t know why there was ever this huge moral argument about chara when they’re literally just a kid with issues. they weren’t taught how to deal with how they felt and likely held themself in lower regard compared to the dreemurrs. its the same thing with asriel, he feels responsible for them being gone and his own trauma. he just wants a friend who can teach him to understand his grief or someone who can at least let him view the situation for how it really is

i just think. flowey is so well written but not understood very well by the fandom because the type of thing he’s gone through is kind of hard to grasp. it’s a weird situation that doesn’t have a completely black or white Is He Or Chara At Fault kind of answer. they were children. people are complicated and want someone to blame when something goes wrong and flowey directed that at himself. hes such a fascinating and well written character i love him dearly i hope u guys understand how insane he makes me <3

#undertale #utdr #flowey #asriel #asriel dreemurr #chara dreemurr #chara #utdr analysis

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deargodhelpmeaaa · 4 days

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How Is It That You Can Make Krerdly Soo Cute And Skrunkly?

It Hurts Me And Makes Me Feel Things Inside

Oh, hello!

I'm happy to hear you like my Krerdly stuff :)

To answer your question, there's a lot going into it, I think.

First off is my love for Berdly.

I've met a lot of people who are similar to Berdly, so a lot of my work borrows from my experiences with them, or is outright directly based on those experiences. I also relate to Berdly myself, which should be obvious from the long essays I write about him.

Second off is that I appreciate how he's written, which ties into the first point. It's one thing to like a character in general, it's another to like BOTH the character and the writing for them. You can like a character who wasn't written well or to their full potential so long as you recognize that they could have been handled better (and this can allow you to make your own work addressing that!)

Ik we say it often in the utdr community (like every day) but Toby Fox is an amazing writer, and his talent shines through his characters in particular. Berdly is particularly outstanding in my opinion. It can never be said enough that Toby is incredibly talented and I just wanted to say that again here, I am infinitely jealous of everything he makes because I worry that I will never live up to it myself. (WRITING IS HARD)

What stands out to me the most about Berdly is not only his shocking amount of complexity, but also how he is written to be a lonely, not particularly likeable person who has a good heart nonetheless. He truly loves his friends. He's shown to be innocent, naiive, surprisingly kind, brave and headstrong, all alongside having a big ego and superiority complex. His personality isn't conventionally likeable or endearing, but if you take the time to know and understand him, you'll realize that by judging him and thinking of him as cruelly as many of the fans of the game did, you missed out on a truly wonderful character.

And this, I think is the point of why he's written the way he is. I swear Toby intends for you NOT to like Berdly, but this is because you don't understand him. That's why you're allowed to kill him. Toby's work has always been about themes like empathy and forgiveness and love so in writing a character in this way, he tests your empathy.

Berdly's a very real character. While many people like him in real life aren't as great as he is, we all have met or are going to meet someone like Berdly at some point in our lives. Hell, we might even BE the Berdly in our own lives ourselves.

He's a character that struck a strong chord with me on my first proper playthrough of the game. I felt a strong feeling of empathy for him and at the end of chapter 2, I was very mad at Toby for not letting me give him a hug.

Also he's fucking adorable and nobody talks about how cute he is! He's such a sweet, innocent little character... it would sure suck if anything bad ever happened to him...

OK I SHOULD SHUT UP ABOUT HIM NOW AND MOVE ON TO WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT BECAUSE IF I KEEP GOING I WONT STOP LMAO

Obviously the most important thing to making Krerdly content is dynamic between Kris and Berdly, or how I read it per my reading of Berdly.

Kris and Berdly have a classic dynamic that is perfect shipping fuel: a rivalry. But theirs is special.

Throughout the game and side material, it is strongly implied that Kris might actually really enjoy Berdly's company, and Berdly says and does a lot of things throughout the game (such as lowering the library fee) that indicate that he may view Kris as a friend. How close are they however? He definitely doesn't dislike them, but has a weird view on them; it seems he worries they might be his superior and because he holds his good grades above them, brags about them constantly. He tries to push them (and Susie) away and focus on working with Noelle at school because he thinks their presence will drag him down and possibly damage his reputation as the smart kid and his grades, and it's possible buried under this is a fear that they might actually outclass him somehow.

The reading of Kris that benefits this ship the most is that Kris loves Berdly for who he really is, and not for who he pretends to be. That, paired with their mischievous, teasing personality makes them a great potential partner for Berdly, whose personality of caring too much about what others think provides such a contrast between them that makes them a truly, truly precious couple.

What I've always loved about the content for them is how sincere it is. This is a cringey gamer couple. They are happy together and they love and accept each other for who they are. It's not often you find things like that IRL and when you do, you know you're lucky, so giving that to Berdly, who I think deserves it, is just nice and makes me happy.

I also like to imagine that a relationship can help Berdly better understand what love really is and what he really wants from a relationship. There's a lot to explore with Kris and Berdly as a couple that I find really interesting.

Anyway I can go on about them all day. I'm not even sure I answered your question bc I started rambling but hopefully you got something out of this.

Thanks for sending this ask. You really made my day!

#ask #berdly #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune #krerdly #mostly berdly #rant #deargodhelpmerant #haha #thanks for the ask once again!#toby fox #utdr #utdr analysis #sorry this is so long #i had to FORCE MYSELF TO STOP WRITING IT lmao

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damiel-of-real · 9 months

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having deltarune thoughts. thinking about how susie thought that if kris told alphys about the chalk that she would be expelled. thinking about how in chapter 2 it's revealed that the teachers literally KNEW about the chalk-eating already.

susie wasnt making an accurate guess as to what would happen if her teachers found out, she just genuinely had it ingrained in her head that her entire class + her teacher just wanted her gone and couldn't possibly imagine that maybe the people around her might show her kindness, and might genuinely want the best for her

#damiel rambling hours #damiel bullshit hours #deltarune #susie #susie deltarune #deltarune susie #this is probably bullshit nonsense but im having thoughts okay #utdr #utdr analysis #deltarune analysis

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springbloggy · 2 months

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Steve Theory - an analysis on a peculiar love letter

Another odd theory from me! This one is based on the recent newsletter.

See, for a while, the top leading theories for chapter 3's superboss was either a character inspired by Toy Story's woody or Sonic the hedgehog. Those are pretty decent theories, but I think this newsletter has a new smoking gun that blows both of those out of the water.

I think that people were on the right track of the third superboss being based off a childhood character, but it isn't woody or sonic, it's Steve from Blue's Clues (and a bit of other similar hosts).

For this theory, I will be calling the character Mike, you will see why soon.

Let's analyze Mike's letter shall we? Bit by bit.

But hey, first off, isn't it a bit odd that this reveal is in the form of a Valentine's letter? Yes, that was the most recent holiday, but previous holidays that the newsletter aligned with weren't this overt. Why present this info via love letter?

Well, this is, I believe the first clue (blue's clue if you will). What segment is Blue's Clues (and other childhood shows like it) known for? A mail time segment.

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Mike may have been a tv character, but he knew that the screen wasn't the only way for fans to reach him. Mail Time was an important segment in his show, and right now he needs mail time the most. But why? Well, let's follow Mike's letter and find out.

The first clue is the distinction of the spelling of Delta Rune, with a space. I believe Mike is aware of the importance of the prophecy in the deltarune universe as well as the real world player's wait to fulfill this prophecy. If Mike truly was a Steve-like character, it would explain how he knows both, as the interactive aspect of his show would make Mike forcibly aware of a greater world outside of his show while still having to abide to the rules and storylines of that show.

Another note is how Mike isn't sure if it's the Old Year or New Year, which could reflect both how Feburary isn't close to being a "new year" anymore but also Mike's show being in reruns, where the passage of time is artificial and determined by what networks choose to broadcast.

Here is the most interesting tie to theory, Mike doesn't know what Valentine's Day is. This is odd because Valentine's Day is a common holiday, but in a children's show often times names of holidays will be changed in order for people of many religions to appreciate the episode. Something infamously parodied in Clone High.

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So Mike wouldn't know Valentine's Day, he'd know it by another name.

Below his thoughts on Valentine's Day, he asks the viewer a question in a similar manner that Steve (or similar hosts) would.

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Much like Steve at the beginning of an episode, Mike asks the viewer of the letter for help to find his forgotten friend. In fact, subtracted the odd feel of the letter, one can easily imagine a children's show where the main character is trying to find someone he forgot about in a lighthearted tone.

The top is interesting because the real-life viewer of this letter wouldn't respond out loud (unless you did, which uh, good ig?). But you know who would? The children voice overs used in these interactive shows. They are still there with Mike, even after his show (presumably) ended.

This seems like a silly joke a preschool host would make, poking fun at daily self care lessons for children. But it also reminds me of another children's host before Steve, the king of children's hosts, Mr. Rodgers.

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Putting on the coat could be a reference to how Mr. Rodgers began his show by putting on his sweater, Mike is beginning his adventure with the viewers/players by having them put on their coats with him.

You may have noticed me skipping the text at the top of the letter, this is because I wanted to group these two notes together. I think the letter being "illegible" and Mike misspelling goodbye goes together. I think these are both hints of Mike not being a grown adult, but rather a young child who can barely write and spell writing this letter. It's similar to the writing seen in Disney's Winnie the Pooh movies.

This would make Mike fit right in with modern preschool hosts such as Dora, Bluey, and the kids from Cocomelon. A younger character ensures that younger viewers will be more engaged with the show and its various lessons.

The final note of this letter takes on a different meaning when you view it under the lens of a preschool show. Once an object, like a letter, is no longer needed to be around, writers will simply just have the object go away then stay on screen.

So now the larger theory, this is a bit of a stretch mind you, but these are all of the pointers I think of.

So wait, you're saying this is Mike?

Yes, I do believe this is the same Mike Spamton thinks so fondly about.

There's two reasons why I think this is the case. The first is his name, all the bosses and superbosses so far have had outlandish names: Jevil, Spamton, Lancer, King, and Queen. Mike sticks out like a sore thumb. Unless he was a character that was created for the sole point of being relatable to the audience, and thus shares a normal name that most people have to enforce that.

The second is this quote

This quote becomes scary if attribute it to this theoretical version of Mike. Think about it, you meet a kind man or child who hosts a preschool show, he's kind, warm, trusting. Wouldn't hurt a fly. But then he suddenly backstabs you.

So how did Mike and Spamton know each other? I think Mike (or the producers of Mike's show) gave Spamton the greatest publicity any salesman could, he made Spamton his show's sponsor.

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Once Spamton stopped earning profits, Mike (or his producers) dropped him as a sponsor, leaving Spamton blindsided as a result. Maybe Mike didn't intend to hurt Spamton's feelings, but it was too late by then and Spamton hasn't reached out since.

The Missing Friend

So does that make Spamton Mike's missing friend? I don't think so. I think Mike's missing friend is actually his equivalent to Blue from Blue's Clues or Boots from Dora. A friend he's never without in universe, until one day, they suddenly disappear without a trace. Maybe the loss of Mike's friend parallels that of Noelle losing Dess or Kris missing Asriel from College. Both being events that force both of these characters to grow up and move on in life even if they don't want to. Unlike these two however, Mike will do anything to find this friend, and with some advice from a certain someone, Mike knows what exactly to do.

Take the player's SOUL.

Mike's lack of control

Mike's lack of control is pretty simple yet terrifying. Mike is not only controlled by the in-universe response of yelling children like Steve, but he's also controlled by the whims of the network, forever being taken on and off air, repeated, and more throughout time. I personally believe Mike's show has been long cancelled ever since the sudden disappearance of his friend, yet he's forced to relive moments through reruns. Thus losing track of time itself. This is the secondary reason why Mike wants the player's soul besides a promise to find his lost friend, all he wants is a normal life again, where he doesn't have to relive moments and just hang out with his cartoony friends.

Even if you don't believe in this theory (it is all an admitted stretch based off of one letter), I hope this provided an interesting and entertaining read!

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #undertale #undertale theory #undertale meta #undertale analysis #undertale newsletter #utdr theory #utdr meta #utdr analysis #utdr newsletter #deltarune secret boss theory #Youtube #blue's clues #blues clues

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