#this isn't headcanon. this is just. the way nmj is | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lgbtlunaverse · 7 months

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Thinking about the fact that during the gusu lectures arc Huiasang has apparently been going every year for the last 3 years, but he isn't older than the others. He can't be any older than Zixuan because Meng yao is canonically younger than Zixuan, yet Huaisang calls him "san-ge" which means Meng Yao is older than Huaisang. So maybe Zixuan is way older than the other kids there, except in the novel it was mentioned that they were all around 15 to 16. And Huaisang also calls himself around Wei Wuxian's and Lan Wangji's age. Which means Nie Mingjue has been sending Huaisang to gusu summer camp since he was like 12 years old.

I'm relatively sure that you're just supposed to chalk that up to nmj's general gung-ho-ness about Huaisang and training like wowww he's so intense! HOWEVER. We are not here to take the easy route we are here to overthink. So I have 2 alternate headcanons.

1. Nie Mingjue went to the gusu lectures at an unusually young age himself.

So we know Nie Mingjue's father died when he was between the ages of 10 and 15, generally assumed to be a little on the older side of that spectrum, 14 or 15-ish. Considering that he was, you know, allowed to acually inherit the sect and it didn't topple down, nor did a coup occur or did any of his advisors use him as a puppet ruler. And I'm not sure a 10 year old is capable of handling all of that. We also know that Nie Mingjue's father got wounded in a night hunt that Nie Mingjue was present for, as he saw his father's saber shatter himself, and that it took 6 months for Lao Nie to actually die from his injuries. During that entire timeframe, and afterwards- as I presume sect leaders don't exactly have the time to leave their sect for multiple months to go study- Nie Mingjue could NOT have gone to the gusu lectures. It could be true that he didn't go at all, we're not told this. But IF he ever went, he must've been unusually young. 13 at the eldest.

If that's true, it'd provide him a reasonable motivation to send his brother at a younger age as well. "I did it too and I was fine, Huaisang! It's not that hard if you actually work for it"

or, alternatively:

2. He didn't want him to be in gusu in the same year as the Wens.

Nie Mingjue has a longstanding grudge againt the Wens for his father's murder and very good reasons to NOT trust them with his family's safety. He definitely wouldn't like his little brother to be out of his sight for a multiple month-long stretch with one of Wen Ruohan's sons right there. We don't know Wen Xu's exact age but since he wasn't in the archery competition he's at least 1 year older than lan xichen, which means he's at least 3-4 years older than Huaisang, so sending Huaisang early would mean avoiding Wen Chao, who was his age, without running into Wen Xu. Sadly, due to Huaisang failing the 2 years before, he's ended up in the same class as Wen Chao anyway. And not sending him again after failing for 2 years would mean giving up, and was probably considered a disgrace, so Nie Mingjue had to bite the bullet.

There's definitely other options I'm not seeing but both of these are fun to play with and rotate around in my head.

#mdzs #mdzs headcanons #nie huaisang #nie mingjue #like in-universe this is an anomaly EVERYONE ELSE waited until their kids were like 15 #it's JUST nie mingjue #no wonder xichen doted on huaisang so much he's been having him over every year since he was a fucking baby

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3cosmicfrogs · 3 months

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Jay what about an au where NMJ and JGY switch bodies right after Sunshot finishes. Say at the phoenix mountain hunt.

you come on this here website and call me by my government name? before marriage???

five headcanons for a Freaky Friday situation after the pmh....hmmmmm

~Gender Dysphoria~ let's get the easy one out of the way first. You know me, i cum the second someone says "blorbo transgender" so naturally anything even Body Horror Adjacent will have Gender Feelings. They needn't even be trans as long as some sort of gender yuri is happening.

everyone would find out immediately. There's no way nmj could spend five minutes in Jin company without making a decisively un-Guangyao-like sarcastic remark. There's no way jgy, who is Deflection Georg and makes 100000 vague statements per day, could tolerate being confrontational.

Ok maybe not everyone, but our Main Cast certainly find out very quickly. NHS figures it out within 3 minutes of the switch ('jgy' started scolding him immediately while 'nmj' just kept smiling, it's creepy-) and naturally this means that lxc gets recruited to help fix this. Somehow, as is tradition with AUs that involve dubious magic, wwx gets involved which naturally means lwj is present as well. jc is also there, though his main purpose seems to be yelling and being outraged at things because someone has to be responsible in this mess, and by god it's gonna be him.

Naturally the whole Switching Situation cannot be fixed overnight and they must Pretend To Be Each Other In Public. This leads to a lot of heartfelt confessions about social status and societal expectations on both ends (not only on jiggy's side. yes, we've done jiggy's pressures and circumstances to hell and back, don't worry, we'll cover them here again, but like. give me MORE. build this world with me. take my hand.) They both grow as people and learn to appreciate each other and be more empathetic and bla bla bla you get the gist.

i think it would be super fun if jiggy can hear baxia now (and maybe feel the effects of early onset hereditary qi deviation???). she would be absolutely delighted by this skinny scared-but-bitter-determined-vicious little Human who is inhabiting her master's body. He's just so fun to scare at night and isn't it hilarious to whisper evil things in his ear and why is your sabre always talking to you da-ge?!

*6. Bonus headcanon! because this is a 3zun Dubious Magic au naturally the absolutely only way to resolve this after all of the conversations are had and revelations are made is by sex. ah, the wonders of dual cultivation... the traditional way most Strange Magic gets solved in this genre of AU, apparently, and who are we without traditions? If it so happens to help with certain hereditary diseases...

#jay is not my government name i jest i jest #mdzs #3zun #mail from the beloved mutuals #of course there will be Magical Healing Sex it's the GENRE #(also i like it.)#thank you for your ask! mwah

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gekidasa · 22 days

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Jiang Cheng for the character meme 🫡

send me a character and i’ll list:

favorite thing about them

Honestly, I love his anger. No, it isn't pretty. Yeah, he's probably not pleasant to be around for most people. But I find that so... human. And relatable too. His flaws and pettiness, his anger, they're all so understandable and relatable to me.

least favorite thing about them

That he has so many antis.

favorite line

Just... the way he says "Wei Wuxian" filled with so much sheer rage.

brOTP

I could say WWX, because I do love to write WWX as JC's gremlin BFF in my sangcheng fics, but if we're being honest, I also think canonically they are way too intense about each other to be "brotp" (honestly I'm a closet chengxian enjoyer).

So I'm going to say I think JC and NMJ would get along really well and would really enjoy going for a beer together in modern aus.

OTP

As far as headcanons and fanfic, sangcheng. I love them together. I'm obsessed with them. Still going over 3 years later, I've written more fic for them than for any other ship. At heart, it's the teenage friends to lovers aspect, but also that they each, on their own have gone through so much loss and pain and anger... including JC's anger at NHS for putting Jin Ling in danger, no, I never forget THAT. But I think after all that, they can understand each other better than most. They can understand the anger and pain and what you are willing to do for that.

And then if speaking strictly canon-based, there's chengxian, which is... everything that it is. Which is SO much. I don't write fic for it or seek it out, but I did very much go through the book reading JC as in love with WWX.

nOTP

LXC, for fandom wank reasons. Wen Qing because I'm a book snob that dislikes CQL.

random headcanon

JC was LQR's favorite guest student that year, and JC greatly respects LQR and values his opinion. Over the years, the mutual respect grew, and they both enjoy getting together for tea and conversation whenever they have a chance.

unpopular opinion

I do not enjoy bottom Jiang Cheng.

Nor do I vibe with the "fandom bicycle" allcheng mindset that enjoys putting him together with any and all, largely because I do see him as very ace/demi. I don't think he gets around very much at all.

song i associate with them

Other than the obvious Hen Bie and the fanmade Swan Goose's Journey (which is BEAUTIFUL), it is absolutely Prince's When Doves Cry, because a now gone JC video to that song is what got me to decide to check out MDZS, and after about 10 seconds I knew I would love Jiang Cheng. Also, it REALLY fits Jiang Cheng.

favorite picture of them

Canonically, probably his first appearance in the donghua.

Fanart-wise, probably one particular one where he was leaning back on something shirtless, scars on his chest in full view.

#jiang cheng #ask meme

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tavina-writes · 1 year

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Also would love to hear your thoughts on NHS. What a guy

My apologies for not answering this sooner, but I just! I have SO many thoughts about NHS. I love him!! He's my special little guy!!

I'm not sure if you want to hear about headcanons (and if so what type) or my thoughts on him as like, a character, or what I like best about him, so I think I'll talk about what I like best about him:

Which is, really, that he's someone who encompasses like, so much of what it means to be human? Unlike a lot of the other characters in the cast who embody like, a lot of extremes in terms of human accomplishments and human virtues, NHS is....lazy, and likes his frivolous hobbies, and not really interested in working hard or justice or morality. NHS likes to be liked by other people, and he loves having casual acquaintances, and he likes pretty shinies, being well dressed, and owning pets. He's smart but he isn't like, the smartest or most accomplished person in the cast, and he's not interested in like, being accomplished. He's also kind of self centered and definitely a little selfish and enjoys being babie and I love that for him too.

I think pre-NMJ murder NHS was someone who was happy to coast along, enjoying stuff, and having fun, and I also think that this is something that is really nice actually. I like how despite the Nie family's circumstances (the saber spirit, the fact that NMJ will die young and that NHS has to inherit) NHS was still allowed to be this way and was given space to be this way. I think that too is a form of love, and it isn't stupid or short sighted or 'wow he really should've learned to be mature earlier and maybe his life wouldn't have turned out so shitty.'

Yes, he gets to do this of all the people in the book bc he's the leisure rich as opposed to someone who literally has to work to survive, but putting aside class and status related issues and how they appear in this story (which I have a whole other series of thoughts about) I like the thought that if given leisure and space to breathe and comparatively less need to be making something of themselves, the indication is that people in this society often might like....low stakes things. Leisure things. Frivolous things. Pretty things. Things that aren't life or death or highly dramatic, or painful.

And tbqh, I find the fact that in the end, NHS loses his brother and switches from genuinely liking these frivolous not exactly the most 'useful' things to seeking revenge and being ready and capable of burning down his life and so many other things to be genuinely tragic and heartbreaking.

I don't think the way he ends this book is something that's to be celebrated or 'oh look at how much he grew and how smart he is now' and I also don't think the way he ends this book is something to be condemned or 'look at how vicious and cruel NHS is guys.'

I just think it's heartbreaking that in the end, despite everything, the final reveal of NHS being the mastermind is that not a single character in this book was allowed to keep liking soft and pretty things.

#nie huaisang my beloved #asks and answers #that's the thoughts #well #I have many other thoughts but that's A thought #not really meta #but #my meta #meta

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fincalinde · 1 year

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nie huaisang and/or nie mingjue for the ask meme 🧋

Bold! Very bold. Standard disclaimer that I'm aware not everyone is aiming for canon consistency in their fan content, but I find it disheartening that there is so little content produced where the end result is canon consistent. When I express frustrations it is in relation to trends and not specific fics or individuals.

Nie Huaisang

a song that reminds me of them

I honestly don't have any songs that remind me of him, beyond the very weak connection of the results of the impact he has on other characters. He's not a character with much interiority, so nothing really clicked for me in that regard.

what they smell like

I imagine he smells pretty good since he likes to dress well and wear jewellery and that implies he's relatively fastidious. I am guessing he probably smells like clean human in the early part of his life, and then maybe once he's clan leader he has more scope to have whatever incenses he wants floating through the Unclean Realm so then he might smell of those. And obviously there's various hair oils—he's got his signature look with his rings and his fan so it's possible he has a signature hair oil. But maybe it would be declassé to wear so much hair oil that everyone else can smell it and you'd only be able to tell up close and personal oh my god why have I written this many words about how NHS smells

an otp

There's certainly no one in the cast he makes sense with. My personal feeling is that he's really not the type of person who's ever going to work effectively in any kind of partnership, so I don't see him ever being in a relationship that would be a healthy and successful one. I imagine he does marry postcanon though - now is the time to sire heirs and keep the Nie on top.

a notp

The idea of NHS with JGY is particularly distasteful to me.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Personally, I think the collective dynamic of the Venerated Triad isn't complete without NHS as the unofficial fourth member. LWJ, as is typical, opts out and doesn't give LXC the courtesy of referring to his sworn brothers with fraternal address (not that LXC minds, ilhsm). NHS however is all in on this bonus brother scheme. Not only does he address LXC and JGY as er-ge and san-ge, but he actually treats them like big brothers. He's pleased to see LXC, he's even more pleased to see JGY (omg presents), and it's quite nice that JGY in particular is trying to make up for NMJ's weaknesses in this area. That's not to say that JGY is correct to not make any demands of NHS at all, but he's certainly attempting to be a moderating influence and it's just all really interesting to me.

Of course once NMJ is dead, there's presumably not much time before his corpse first escapes its tomb and NHS concludes there was foul play. So we can't read too much into the way NHS runs back and forth to JGY and LXC, in the sense that obviously a large part of this is an act. But it's still interesting, and I think a lot of people forget that the narration says NHS is bothering LXC at the Cloud Recesses just as often as he's flinging himself on san-ge for fuss and support. This could become its own very long post, so I'll stop here.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Obviously there are numerous 'headcanons' I disagree with, but to pick one of the most irritating ones, I really dislike this recurring theme I see of NHS showing his hand either postcanon or in divergences. This is a man who never broke character in all of canon—why on earth is he suddenly monologuing at length about his grievances in front of [insert characters here]? Canonically, all he does is obliquely confirm to WWX that he was behind setting the arm on the Mo family, manipulating MXY, killing the cats and luring the juniors, desecrating MS' body etc. But it's all implied and he does not ever relinquish plausible deniability.

It really makes no sense to me to think that NHS would drop his act postcanon, either in the canon scenario of dead JGY, or in a divergence scenario where JGY survives. As infuriating as it would be for him if JGY escaped, he's going to redouble his efforts rather than sabotage himself by confirming WWX's suspicions to literally anyone. He's held it together thus far even when it looked like his plan might go awry, and there's no reason to think he can't continue to hold it together through any further plans and/or confrontations.

NHS' greatest weapon is his ability to not break character, and we already know he doesn't break character in victory. So, a setback as basic as JGY surviving would just not be enough for him to relinquish his modus operandi. I really think he'd be privately furious and distressed, but would continue to disguise that and simply attempt to regroup. (Although, as I have also said before - in a divergence where JGY knows NHS is his enemy, NHS is toast. JGY outclasses NHS on every level and the only advantage NHS has is JGY's profound belief in his harmlessness. Once that is gone, it's game over.)

the position they sleep in

I've never really thought about this but I bet when he was little he would crawl into NMJ's bed and proceed to keep him awake all night by fidgeting.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

Maybe one day I'll confirm how he fits in to my ATLA AU and write that. I do know where he is and what he's doing.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I can't say I've ever paid much attention, but I definitely find the wardrobe of CQL NHS to be disappointingly bland and unmemorable, so maybe just his default official artwork outfit? Seems like it fits the canonical brief of being sharp and fashionable with bonus fan.

—

Nie Mingjue

a song that reminds me of them

Definitely Running Deep by Delara.

Looking deep inside my thoughts And reflected shit I thought I could control But I'm paralysed and terrified And it's killing me but maybe that is fine

what they smell like

Human being + something a little bit metallic.

an otp

He's canonically ace as in no interest in relationships or sex, so none. As a side note I do think it's interesting that he doesn't marry and father children - I assume before the war he thinks he'll have more time, and afterwards he realises time is too short for him to raise and train his own children. But there's just a whisper in there of the classic NMJ 'do as I say not as I do' approach, because it's still a choice he's made that was influenced by his own preferences rather than solely his duty as clan leader.

a notp

I cannot think of any ship I dislike more than Nieyao. If I get into this it will become a dissertation, so we'll just leave it there. Suffice to say:

Physical abuse and mortal terror are not things that interest me when I'm shipping.

I am not in the habit of ignoring canonical character dynamics for my own convenience.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Perhaps weirdly, I really enjoy NMJ and LXC because of the layers. I really like that the affection between them is genuine but that they just do not get each other and you can see throughout the flashbacks the way their relationship is eroding. And it's not drastic, dramatic erosion like NMJ and JGY, but instead the kind of sad recognisable drifting apart of two people who became friends in their youth because they're from similar backgrounds and have unique and heavy responsibilities—but those similarities are just not enough the older they get, and the more time passes the more apparent it becomes that they have fundamentally different outlooks on life.

I like that NMJ refuses to engage with LXC's basic point about context mattering, yet before he's fully in the grip of the sabre spirit maxing out his worst instincts, he's still capable of being moved by human sympathy when it's LXC making the argument. I like that LXC is the only person NMJ is ever visibly pleased to see. I really believe NMJ cares deeply about LXC, his only actual friend.

And, conversely, I also really like that NMJ is able to see that LXC has a closer bond and rapport with JGY and is frustrated by that. I don't know that I'd go all in on the theory that he's jealous of how close LXC and JGY are as a primary motivation as that's a bit too basic, but I do think that feeling of exclusion is one of the many factors swimming around in the murky depths of the dynamic of their sworn brotherhood.

Finally, I just love the contrast between LXC's relatively clear-eyed view of JGY, where he has a very good understanding of who JGY is and what he's all about even if he's not aware of all the lengths JGY ultimately has to go to, with his absolute obliviousness to who NMJ really is. NMJ is literally trying to stab JGY to death in public and only LXC's intervention prevents murder and yet another inter-clan war, and LXC is still like oh dear, Da-ge really is under a lot of stress. LXC is drifting further and further from NMJ (see the excellent meta from @xiyao-feels for a breakdown of this). Yet he still thinks of NMJ as being at heart the youthful clan leader he first befriended, rather than the current worst self incarnation whose negative qualities have been turned up to the max and who is a lethal ticking time bomb, a danger to everyone around him.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

As always, do not get me started. I am absolutely baffled as to where cuddly wuddly giant teddy gym bunny biker Etsy crafter in touch with his fee-fees all bark and no bite NMJ comes from, because he certainly does not feature in canon. I'll stand by this for both MDZS and CQL. I've probably spilt enough ink on MDZS NMJ and we are given very detailed insight into his state of mind so that's a lot easier to reference, but it's worth noting that CQL NMJ is just as profoundly hypocritical and violent and it's vital to incorporate that into his character. Writing only his superficial righteousness, his love for NHS and his affection for LXC is really not enough. It annoys me when aspects of characters are excised in order to sanitise them for what appears to be mainly shipping purposes.

the position they sleep in

I think maybe it varies but he doesn't move much in the night unless he has nightmares. Which no one knows about because he always sleeps alone.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

I also know what this guy is doing in my ATLA AU, and I'm super boring and not a huge fan of genuine crossovers—usually I prefer mashups where the characters of one canon are integrated into the setting of another without aping the original plot. I think it's really important to retain his arc of a) losing himself to all his worst qualities, and b) acknowledging that he's choosing to lose himself and handling it badly, but also it's not much of a choice when he can't opt out of the system he's in. I'm thinking maybe an X-Men AU where he has some kind of power that causes sabre-spirit-type degeneration and violence? It would need some kinks worked out of it but might be a decent shout.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

Obviously his best look is when WWX is flicking his naked disembodied torso. Iconic.

#ask #thatswhatsushesaid #roquen meta #howling sadly into the night:#NMJ IS SO INTERESTING #whyyyyy would you construct something else out of whole cloth #when we have this to dig into?#beyond my comprehension

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thebiscuiteternal · 2 years

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i am in love with the headcanon about nmj's death copying his father's in even more respects than canon gives us, esp the conflicts with nhs, but doesn't that make nhs look kinda dumb for not realizing he's sick?

Not really. The important factor to remember is that Huaisang has no reason to not trust the people around him at this point in the novel.

His brother continually insists he's fine. Unlike in the drama. Er-ge and San-ge slso insist he's fine and don't tell him the real reason for all the extra visits. The Second-in-Command, the healers, the elders, the senior disciples... everyone who would actually know what's going on all say his brother is fine. And these are his family and friends. So of course he trusts them!

But every single one of them is lying to his face.

So let's go back to that headcanon and look at it from his perspective.

His father, dying and insane from his saber being shattered, calls him horrible things and even attacks him.

When he is told that it was the sickness talking (but is not told that all strong saber users will eventually share that sickness, shattering or no shattering), he accepts that.

Now, here is his brother destroying everything he owns and calling him the same horrible things years later.

But his brother isn't sick. Not only does everyone say he's not, not only does he still look like he always has, but Baxia is clearly still in one piece without a scratch on her as she hangs off Mingjue's belt.

So if his brother is healthy, but hates him just as much as their father did... maybe it wasn't the sickness that caused his father to react the way he did all those years ago, Huaisang thinks. Maybe they both just finally hit their limit with him.

And this time, no one corrects him on it, because with the brothers expressly avoiding each other, everyone's still keeping Huaisang in the dark about Mingjue's continual decline.

It's not until the moment he sees the chaos in the courtyard that he realizes he's been lied to. It was the sickness all along.

But now it's too late.

And now he has a lot less reason to be so trusting next time.

#mdzs #nie huaisang #nie mingjue #headcanon #worldbuilding

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jaimebluesq · 2 years

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For the prompt thing, I really like all your Nie sect headcanons! Do you have any more--perhaps focused on Huaisang & Mingjue and their brotherly bond?

Thank you for the ask/prompt! :D

I think for quite a while after their parents died, the relationship between Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang was in a really difficult place because a) NMJ now had to run their sect, and b) NMJ now had a 9-yr old brother who needed a parental figure, and he was the only one left despite only being 15. It was a huge balancing act and he made a lot of mistakes, made even worse by the fact that NHS began acting out. This is one of the initial reasons why NHS began fighting back against saber training – before then, he looked up to his big brother and wanted to be just like him (even though physically it just wasn't going to be in the cards), but after NMJ became sect leader, NHS only ever saw him at meals and whenever he got into trouble... so he got into trouble more often, and every time he ran away when it was time to train his saber, NMJ would go and find him and bring him back, and he'd see his brother again.

As NHS grew up, running away from practice became less and less acceptable. What NMJ could tolerate from a 9 year old was different from what he could tolerate from a 12 year old, and yet they were still stuck in that cycle of NMJ getting busy, NHS instinctively needing his brother's attention, NHS acts out, NMJ fetches him and gets angry, goes back to work, and rinse/repeat. Something had to change or else they would come to a head which would negatively affect their relationship.

It's funny that the very thing that saved them was the very thing that made them so different. NMJ is a very straightforward man, you always know where you stand with him, and he just doesn't have much patience for political games. Oh, he does his best to play them because he HAS to, but he doesn't like it, and isn't as good at it as he knows he should be. NHS, on the other hand, will put on a smile for you one moment and plot to sneak hot peppers in your supper the next just because you insulted one of his birds. What ended up happening was that NHS had really gotten into trouble and NMJ didn't feel like he could let his brother go unsupervised, so NMJ was forcing him to remain at his side when he was meeting with officials in the Great Hall. Mid-way through one merchant's account of why they weren't able to fulfill Qinghe Nie's order for more materials for their saber blacksmiths, NHS tugged at his brother's sleeve and whispered “He's lying, Da-ge.” NMJ called for a short recess and talked with NHS in private, asking him why he thought that. It was a mix of NHS' instinctive ability to read people and rumours he'd heard from the kitchen staff that were contrary to what the merchant had been saying. When they went back to the Main Hall, NMJ confronted the merchant who folded eventually, admitting they “may have exaggerated the difficulty a little bit”.

After that, NHS spent more time with NMJ when he was meeting people – at first it started with just little tugs and whispers to let NMJ know NHS thought something was off, and over the years, they developed a whole vocabulary of looks and gestures so that NHS could communicate things to NMJ without anyone else being any the wiser. They kept it a secret between the two of them because NHS began to feel confident enough to let NMJ know when he suspected something of one of NMJ's advisors, captains, or disciples.

The only person to ever find out about this unique facet to their relationship was Meng Yao.

#nie huaisang #nie mingjue #nie bro feels #nie sect stuff #nie bros best bros

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cqlfeels · 3 years

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Hope no one minds if I share a half-baked 3zun theory with the class 😊

It really is half-baked and is shared more like a drunk guy yelling in the subway than like a fandom scholar presenting a lecture 💖

So, sworn brotherhood is way more complicated than exchanging friendship bracelets and promising to be BFFs. It involves the families of all sworn brothers (and we know how important families are in the world of MDZS/CQL) and, for political leaders, it unavoidably gets tangled up in politics. Though speaking of modern-day rather than historical sworn brotherhood, this paper does a pretty good job outlining the functions of ritual kinship, and it's very readable, so I do think people who are Into Serious Meta would enjoy it:

Anyway, here's why WWX speculates 3zun swore brotherhood:

Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.

Standard unreliable narrator disclaimers apply, etc.

But I always found this... Strange. I do think this is part of NMJ's motivation, but I think gratitude for JGY's role in the war is not nearly enough to swear brotherhood (WWX was also instrumental to winning Sunshot, and I just can't imagine NMJ saying "that's enough for him to become my brother"), and I... Don't think NMJ is so charitable as to swear brotherhood because he wants oh so much for JGY to be Good and not waste his talents. Yes I think he loves being able to have authority over JGY again, but enough to justify swearing brotherhood? Eh. I can see LXC suggesting both these things to pitch the idea to NMJ, but I don't think it's enough for NMJ to go from active distrust to ritual kinship. Of course these are important factors, yes, but not the whole picture. For all else you can say about NMJ, that he takes oaths lightly isn't an accusation you can make.

Interestingly, besides mutual affection, etc, LXC and JGY immediately gain material benefits by becoming brothers. JGY gains social capital by being held up as being close to two different sect leaders, and washes away his past work for the Wen by ritually aligning himself with the two heroes of Sunshot. LXC, on the other hand, can get financial help for his destroyed Sect without losing face - he's not begging for help, he's just gracefully accepting his brothers' generosity. For xiyao, sworn brotherhood brings some measure of stability to the power play they're entangled in the post-war world - JGY exchanges his sect's resources for the soft power of the Lan. (Note that JGY also gets a way to justify to his father why the Jin will lose face if they don't help the Lan, which, if you read JGY as genuinely wanting to help LXC, is also a perk for both of them.)

And NMJ......... Gets to scold JGY into virtue, I guess??? What benefit is he looking for? Just personal satisfaction??? Is he not Nie-zongzhu, isn't he considering his sect? I mean, the Nie as a sect gain nothing by their brotherhood...... Unless you remove NMJ out of the picture. When NHS gets to power, the Nie are poised to gain a lot.

Although both JGY and LXC clearly love NHS, if he outlived his political usefulness (and let's face it, NMJ is sure he will), there's no way they can justify to their sects why they're helping him indefinitely. If NHS is their sworn brother's heir, though? They don't even have to explain themselves - they're expected to help.

Even if NHS is a disastrous sect leader, he automatically inherits an unbreakable alliance with 2/3 of the major sects. The Jiang sure as hell won't go to war against all the other major sects put together, and LXC won't allow the Lan to be anything but nice to NHS as long as he can possibly help it. The Jin are more of a wildcard because NMJ has no reason to believe JGY will ever inherit leadership, but NHS - and by extension his sect - having a Jin on his side is better than no Jin at all. Plus if JGS were a normal father it'd be super awkward for him to go up against one of his son's sworn brothers' sect. There's always assassination and all, but hey, NMJ can't fix every thing in one fell swoop, can he?

So like, I'm not saying it's canon or anything, but it is possible that NMJ - who may be a hot-headed dude but must be capable of some level of strategizing, if he's such a great military man - was counting on dying before his time and leaving behind a beloved but incompetent brother who needs every advantage NMJ can get him if the Nie are to not disappear in a generation. I don't believe he'd take such an oath solely to Turn JGY Into An Upstanding Citizen, but I definitely believe he'd take whatever oath he had to if it's to ensure the protection of both NHS and the Nie sect.

I still have to think things through (maybe this whole theory will fall apart if I remember some direct contradiction or another) but for now I'm inclined to headcanon that this was like, 50% of his motivation, the other 50% being divided among the other reasons WWX outlined.

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lansplaining · 2 years

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NHS and JGY for friendship meme: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13!

whew okay let's go

My favorite scene of them

I love the CQL scene where Meng Yao is getting sent away. It hits the perfect weird blend of real affection but also fundamental inequality that makes their relationship so interesting.

A random headcanon I have of them

Once he saw how much Huaisang liked art, Meng Yao was really hopeful they could recite and discuss poetry together to help Meng Yao expand his knowledge, but that's too much like studying so Huaisang never wanted to.

My favorite thing about them

They're so compatible as friends, and in a better world really could have supported each other in meaningful ways, I think.

A scene I wish we had of them

I DESPERATELY want the scene/series of scenes/entire mini-novel where, as mentioned in passing in the novel, LXC and JGY help NHS hold onto leadership of the clan after NMJ's death. I'd also like a scene of them seeing each other again after WRH is killed.

A scene with them that I want to rewrite/change in some way

I mean...... I want to change Guanyin Temple so that NHS isn't such a snake but that's not really about their friendship. They have so few scenes together that aren't just wildly complex plot scenes, it's hard to think of one to change, rather than just things to add.

A word to describe them

...complicated? That's boring, but like. It's Complicated. Or maybe 'unbalanced,' but in different and constantly-changing ways throughout their relationship.

What I think would have happened if they never met

.....okay i changed my mind, THIS is the missed connection that would change the most. Like... the plot doesn't happen. I guess there's a world where JGY somehow meets NMJ without meeting Huaisang but... that's also the world where therefore, NHS never works out who killed his brother, doesn't pursue revenge, doesn't persuade Mo Xuanyu to do the sacrifice summon, etc etc etc.

#ask meme #friendship meme #nhs #jgy

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thatswhatsushesaid · 7 months

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do you think NHS will ever be satisfied with the way things have turned out in the end? or is he already? I've seen polar opinions on this one and honestly can't decide which one I like more

oooh, what crunchy questions, anon.

short answer: I think he thinks he's satisfied.

the tl;dr answer: I don't think it's possible for us to know with any degree of certainty how nhs feels about anything post-canon, because the text gives us almost no insight into his interiority outside of wwx's speculation in the aftermath of the guanyin temple sequence. but I think we can make some educated guesses based on what we do know about his character.

rather than just rewrite stuff I've already written on this subject before, I'll drop some links to previous posts that I think are relevant to your ask:

nhs took so long to enact his revenge quest because he could not make up his mind about what he wanted to do. also this one, which includes discussion of his cql performance as well. indecisiveness is as core to nhs's character as his desire for vengeance, and I think that extends to his feelings about his situation post-canon, too.

this is definitely more within the realm of headcanon and speculation but I went deep on this the magnus archives-mdzs fusion reblog speculating on why I think nhs would be an avatar of the hunt, and a big thing about the hunt is that once the hunt is over, the hunters... don't really know what to do with themselves. womp womp.

now on to the point I don't think I've spilt much digital ink on yet:

nhs is, and always has been, a people person. this is extremely obvious when you dip back into the gusu lan summer camp for wayward young cultivators chapters, where nhs is at his most effervescent when he is bopping around the cloud recesses as wwx and jc's bubbly tag-along, lamenting how much lwj and lqr clearly hate wwx while cheerfully offering to give wwx more porn to make up for what he's lost. (it was nhs's porn, too! he'd be justified in being a bit cheesed off about it, but he really isn't!) if he sees a didi-shaped hole in a prospective friends' group, he sees an opportunity to make himself lovably indispensable as the court appointed littlest brother no one asked for, and quite frankly who could blame him? he loves to be spoiled and doted on, but imo there's some clear self-awareness and reciprocity at work in these dynamics that goes beyond a desire just to be pampered and looked after. I suppose an uncharitable read on teen!nhs would be that he's lazy and manipulative and finds easy marks to do the heavy lifting for him so he can sleep and paint and catch birds for his private collection, but tbh I think that interpretation does his character dirty. most people who end up spoiling and doting on nhs in the text are clearly happy to do so and seem to get something out of making life easier for this charmingly incompetent dandy. good for him--and for them!

...and then, post-canon, he is a people person without any people around him. sure, we can presume the existence of some unnamed nie sect subordinates who are stuck dealing with a sect leader who allowed his sect to languish and decline in the years after nmj's death, but I think if any of those unnamed subordinates were inclined to be people nhs could rely on to fill the 3zun and/or wwx and jc-shaped voids in his life, we'd at least know their names. I think it is telling that we don't, and that the last meaningful interaction we see between nhs and the characters who used to be his closest friends in the text amounts to an interrogation. whatever affection wwx used to feel for nhs has clearly withered on the vine and has been replaced by mistrust and suspicion--to say nothing of lxc's dead-eyed silence as soon as he begins to put the pieces together.

also: the last glimpse we get of nhs in the text before he disappears from the story altogether is him picking up jgy's hat and walking off with it. why does he do this? why is this the very last thing we see him do in the story? there are a few different possibilities:

"he's taking the hat to keep as a trophy!" I mean. maybe? I suppose I can't entirely rule out this possibility, but it is the least interesting one to me because it glosses over the complexity of nhs's pre-existing relationship to jgy.

"nhs doesn't know why he picks up the hat and takes it with him. he just does it." this is the idea I vibe with the most because it is most consistent with my read on his character--namely that he is never 100% sure about anything (except what qualifies as good erotica). but I think the part of him that still cares about jgy (it's there! it's tiny and shrivelled and warped by his transformation into the wuxia version of montresor, but it's still there) does not want to see his hat abandoned in the mud and dirt, and also does not want to interrogate his feelings about why he feels that way that closely.

"nhs can't abide littering! he's doing his part to keep the city streets clean." doubt.jpeg

#asks answered #mdzs meta #nie huaisang #let him have birds!! 🕊️

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thatswhatsushesaid · 1 year

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hard/soft head canons for jgy pls (or if u have one for jgy already in ur inbox, gimme ur hcs about sms!)

I do not have one for jgy yet!! but bless u because I love talking about him for literally any reason

I have a few hard headcanons for jgy! which, to be clear, is not the same as saying that this is what I believe the canon itself indisputably says; it is just that this is the interpretation of the text that I find most supportable and enjoyable, and which I like to work with in fic and RP. anyway, I'll list them out and try to be succinct:

I don't think jgy killed jrs, for all the reasons that I've written about already, as well as for the many reasons outlined in other people's thoughtful meta. I think he thought about it and contemplated how he might do it even before the assassination attempt, but I don't think he did it.

jgy didn't hate mo xuanyu and wasn't afraid of jgs replacing him with mxy specifically. he is also not the source of the rumours regarding mo xuanyu sexually harassing him, because no matter which way you dice it, it straight up does not make sense for a man who carefully calculates his risks before he takes them to intentionally spread a rumour implicating him in an incestuous entanglement with his half-brother while he is literally married to his own half-sister. so when I write jgy, I tend to write him as having fond and affectionate feelings for mxy initially (which I believe is supported by the text, given how mxy worshipped him), that quickly become uncomfortable, and ultimately result in him wanting mxy to be as far away from him as possible.

connected to the above, jgy is never intentionally impolite or unkind to mxy, even when arranging to have him removed from jinlintai.

jgy's feelings for lxc are deep and genuine and rooted in mutual respect and understanding! I think this much is pretty much indisputably canon whether you decide to interpret the relationship romantically or not. but this is a headcanon meme, and my headcanon is absolutely that they have intense romantic feelings for each other, and that they definitely do want to fuck about it. more often than not my headcanon is that they don't have a sexual relationship in the novel for many reasons (most of which are tied to the tenuousness of jgy's position and the care he takes with his reputation). in cql, jgy's position is still similarly tenuous and he works hard to preserve his reputation, but good fucking god, the chemistry between lhk and zzj when they're on-screen together is off the charts. like I have a harder time coming up with justifications for why they haven't fucked. because damn, lads, really? right in front of chifeng-zun's salad? anyway--

jgy isn't a sadist and doesn't enjoy causing pain (have I written about this recently, I for sure think I have written about this recently), and I wish I saw less of this in the search results when I go hunting for xiyao fic on AO3. that said I do think that he enjoys having the power to either cause pain to those who have wronged him, or withhold it as a gesture of mercy, or to intercede to protect someone he cares about from experiencing pain.

man I definitely have more hard headcanons for jgy but at this point I feel like I'm veering into arguing for what I believe is canon vs what is just my personal preference when interpreting the character. ok soft headcanons, aka stuff I still feel pretty strongly about and feel is supported by the text, but won't necessarily throw me out of enjoying a fic or w/e if I encounter a story that approaches things differently:

I don't think jgy hated nmj at the time of his death and believe his tears while witnessing nmj's qi deviation were a genuine expression of both horror and grief, but I do think he hated nmj, in the moment, when nmj punted him down the steps of jinlintai and denigrated him and his mother publicly in front of his entire sect. and frankly, I think just about anyone else would too.

related to the above, I don't think jgy expected nmj's death to be as horrific as it was, and I think nhs being wounded by nmj in the process remains a real regret that follows him for the rest of his life.

tangentially related (again!): let jgy be a sugar daddy please, let this man spoil rotten the people in his life that he loves and cares for! give me modern AUs where jgy slowly woos lxc through the power of transforming him into a clotheshorse, but a clotheshorse only for the high quality clothes that jgy gifts to him. let jgy win him over with very soft cashmere and silk and cufflinks and antique musical scores that his newly acquired and hard won wealth has allowed him to enjoy. let lxc be super hot for it.

my read on jgy in bed is that, when he feels secure enough to explore sexual intimacy, he is an extremely generous lover who derives half of his pleasure from ensuring that his partner (who, lbr, is going to be lxc 9/10 for me) has all of their needs met before he contemplates his own.

okay I must stop!! or I never will!!!

#asks answered #ask meme #mdzs meta #jin guangyao #he did crimes??? good for him 😌

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fincalinde · 1 year

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Lan Xichen!

THANK YOU for the pity ask! Can't believe I got the Nie bro Hanguang-jun triple bonus combo first. (I don't mind being asked about any character, it's just funny.)

a song that reminds me of them

The obligatory PHILDEL is Funeral Bell because it's one that's more LXC alone than Xiyao. Don't get me started on the Xiyao ones.

And it rings in the day And it rings in the evening Oh, I could pray but it won't stop you leaving Shadow in black, you are grim from your reaping Oh, can't you spare just a day for the weeping?

what they smell like

Sandalwood! But he spends so much time at Golden Carp Tower after JGY ascends that he often smells of their incenses too. Probably also smells of clean air and pines when he's just come from the mountain/been flying. Of the entire cast he's probably the one who smells the best, let's be real.

an otp

ctrl+c, ctrl+v my JGY answer, but it's Xiyao. I don't think the text indicates that they are secret lovers, but their intimacy and affection reads as romantic to me, and I think had circumstances been more kind that is the relationship both would prefer whether or not either of them has consciously considered it. I think they're also both very happy with their friendship as it is, so perhaps longing but not necessarily pining. They see each other constantly, after all. And I will leave a link to this again to illustrate why I believe they're a strong partnership who could have rebuilt their relationship had NHS not intervened.

a notp

I already took a cricket bat to Xicheng's balls, so let's say Nielan. There's no evidence in the text that their initial relationship is anything other than a friendship between two young clan leaders(/leader and heir), and by the time the war is properly underway they're already drifting apart in terms of how their respective worldviews are being tested by their circumstances. You yourself did the ultimate breakdown of their relationship, and while there's certainly affection it's hardly a meeting of the minds.

I will just also add a tart observation that for all fandom's supposed plethora of ace representation, NMJ the canonical ace is almost never depicted as such.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

I am doubling up here quite a bit as I've already covered LXC's friendship with NMJ and his relationship with LWJ, so as a third option I'll say I find his relationship with his mother interesting. Going to hold off on more details as some absolute monster sent me an ask about her and it would be better served there. Suffice to say I have thoughts.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Himbo LXC has been slated enough by finer minds than mine, but OK, I'll sharpen my axe for his equally frustrating cousin, service top LXC. I would genuinely be interested if someone could point me to anything in the text that indicates LXC has any desire to 'serve' JGY and dote on him either in the bedroom or outside it, because I don't see a shred of evidence that he's harbouring any secret yearnings of that nature.

Consistently throughout the entirety of MDZS, JGY is the one catering to LXC's needs and we never see either of them express the remotest dissatisfaction with this arrangement. Yes the narrative isn't focused directly on them and all sorts of things might be happening in the gaps, but that puts 'service top' LXC in the category of speculative at best.

Actually I think I'm bending over backwards to categorise it as speculative. At minimum there are far more plausible ways for him to express his romantic and sexual affections if given further opportunity. We actually see a fair bit of LXC and how he interacts with JGY, and we know how they behave when relaxed together. There's nothing in any of their scenes that betrays any kind of anxiety about wanting to protect JGY, to wait on him, to dote on him. We can speculate that LXC at times yearns to relinquish the persona of clan leader, because he is a human being and no human being wants to always live inside their role, and I'm sure there are times when he would like to express his emotions more freely. But it doesn't follow that doing so would open the floodgates on some suppressed desire to serve and 'spoil' JGY.

I've written about this before, but LXC is already meeting JGY's needs. He likes JGY and he respects and supports him. There's also no indication that JGY secretly wants to be taken care of and doted on. Just, no indication at all that either of them is dissatisfied with their existing dynamic, which does not consist of spoilt JGY and protective servile LXC.

As always, if this is what people enjoy then that's great. Fandom is fun and we are all here for different reasons but ultimately to enjoy ourselves. My frustration is that it's like trawling the Atlantic with a tea strainer trying to find content that's more in line with the novel.

the position they sleep in

Official Lan Position but considering he's a little more relaxed than LWJ, my speculation is that there have been times in his life when he hasn't lain down to sleep like a vampire in a coffin. Like after a while of being in hiding with JGY in Not Yunping Please God, Why Would JGY Travel Back To Yunmeng Or Anywhere In Hubei And Why Would LXC Flee Towards Hubei Not To Mention Jiangsu Borders Shandong Like Come On I Think We All Know JGY Travelled South Out Of Shandong Towards Or Into Jiangsu But Even If He Didn't Why Would He Ever Go Back To Yunmeng

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

My ATLA AU is still my fave, shameless shameless, but to vary things a little I do like the idea of an AU influenced by HDM. The problem is that I've read a couple before back in the mists of time and the dæmon choices were baffling. JGY with a fox and LXC with a deer I'm on board with though, and it would be an interesting challenge to synthesise something out of the canon dynamics while incorporating all the Dust and Magisterium stuff.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I'm a basic bitch who does love the robe he wears in the CQL Xiyao doing their thing right in front of NMJ's salad scene. Just generally approve of the choice they made to introduce colour to LXC's wardrobe to differentiate him. It's something I pinch for my fic (pls cancel me now for being hypocritical about purism). Oh but I also love him with hair loopies in fanart, this is noncanonical but I see what you did there with all the official art, LWJ is the lead so he has to have the sexy bits of hair outside the ribbon even though the more austere style given to LXC would be a better match for his character. I reject this technically extracanonical material and substitute my own personal preferences in a further display of shameless hypocrisy. I regret nothing.

#ask #xiyao-feels #roquen meta #fwiw i love the slightly trollish edge to lxc's banter (flirting?) with jgy #more of this please #they have fun together #i enjoy how much they enjoy each other's company #and i think that enjoyment of each other is written so authentically #it's difficult to support speculation that either of them are like #weighed down by pining #or fantasising about radically different dynamics #i mean they're having such a good time #a romantic relationship would surely be pretty much what we've already seen #with bonus orgasms

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