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mxtxfanatic · 2 months

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Bing-ge and Victim's Entitlement as Portrayed by MXTX

I was thinking about Bing-ge’s journey as an abuse victim into an abuser and how much the creation of Bing-mei is a critique on both the writing trope that creates Bing-ge as well as the societal expectations that drive it.

In the world of PIDW, one of Shen Yuan’s main critiques was about how terribly the young Luo Binghe is treated by the narrative, so much so that he views it as torture porn. From being abandoned as a baby, to being abused as a servant and watching his adoptive mother wither from sickness and die, to finding his way to Cang Qiong Mountain and suffering under a cruel shizun who then pushes him into hell, Shen Yuan finds all this unnecessarily cruel. However, Shang Qinghua knows that the trauma Luo Binghe suffers directly correlates to the enjoyment readers are meant to get out of the second half of the protagonist’s life when he becomes overpowered and primed for vengeance. Shen Yuan knows this, too, as this is the trope he girds himself with as Shen Qingqiu to work up the nerve to push his disciple into the Endless Abyss, to “earn” his happiness. However, is this a true happiness? Does the trauma justify any and all of Luo Binghe’s actions?

On the surface, Bing-ge seems happy! He is able to enact revenge on Shen Jiu—and demolish Cang Qiong Mountain Sect who acted as accomplices to his abuse—and was given narrative access to any and every woman of marriageable age who crossed his path. He is even able to destroy his world by merging the three realms with no consequences to himself. Bing-ge has seemingly reaped the twisted “reward” that having survived unconscionable abuse and abandonment from the time of his birth had sown for him, and PIDW readers were able to enjoy and defend Bing-ge’s later megalomaniacal actions directly because they had read through hundreds of pages of his ill-treatment beforehand. The worse Luo Binghe’s childhood was, the more they were willing to accept of his actions in adulthood. We see a similar thing take place in the SVSSS fandom: the reveal of Shen Jiu’s past as a child slave is used to justify his later abuse of his child disciples—children who had no hand in his trauma but who he has decided to bear the brunt of it, anyways. But Shen Jiu lived a very unfulfilling adulthood due to his unwarranted actions until his untimely death. Is Luo Binghe any different?

Enter Bing-mei: the revised protagonist who abandons revenge in pursuit of experiencing genuine affection from the only person who gave it unconditionally. No, Bing-mei doesn’t get all the girls or all the power. He does not become the emperor of all three realms and he is not an uncontested leader that all conscious beings bow to. In fact, he is very tame and controlled in comparison to his PIDW counterpart despite not having complete control of his sword that amplifies his negative emotions. But when Bing-ge slips into the world of SVSSS and discovers that, despite all of this, Bing-mei has an intact world, platonic relationships, and a shizun who loves him, he’s willing to throw it all away to experience that same life. Bing-ge is revealed to be the unhappy, unfulfilled one, because the one thing he wanted—genuine unconditional love—was the one thing that he cannot earn or forcibly take. No amount of audience hype can change the fact that Bing-ge must leave behind the happy Bingqiu couple to return to his destroyed world in his unsatisfying reality.

This isn’t just a theme in SVSSS, either; it’s present in all of MXTX’s works in how people—both characters and the irl fandom—react to antagonists and asshole characters who have experienced trauma. In mdzs: a female cultivator tries to say that Jin Ling endangering other cultivators should be forgiven “since he’s an orphan.” Jiang Cheng throws his parents’ and sister’s death around to justify being an unrepentant serial killer. Jin Guangyao cries about how much his father hates him compared to the legitimate Jin heirs that he murdered. In tgcf: Qi Rong escapes discipline at every turn because his mother had to escape with him from his abusive father, and Mu Qing’s transgressions against the marginalized are ignored because “he was poor, once.” All of these characters have their actions whitewashed both in their stories and by their fandoms at large because their defenders believe that their trauma excuses any of their subsequent behavior.

Yet, MXTX does not prescribe to this idea. Notice the pattern of how the above characters end their stories. Jiang Cheng tanks his reputation and loses the respect of his only living relative. Jin Guangyao and Qi Rong die. But Jin Ling experiences setback after setback until he adjusts his behavior, and Mu Qing had to earnestly apologize under harrowing circumstances to be forgiven. It is not characters who seek justice for being harmed who are punished in these novels but those who persevere in their entitlement to do whatever they want because they were once harmed, thereby eventually destroy any goodwill others, particularly their loved ones, had towards them. The characters who are able to contain their actions to aim only at those who wronged them or else honestly reflect on their sense of entitlement in order to change for the better become well-liked by their peers. And as for Bing-ge: his inability to change within the narrative of PIDW may have “earned” him all the material things his world could offer and the affections of an unseen audience, besides, but he misses out on true human connection and love. These are the things he can never forcibly take, because in real life, no amount of trauma would entitle him—or anyone—to those things.

#human metas mxtx #svsss #mdzs #tgcf

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piosplayhouse · 5 months

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Jiang Cheng antis will always fall flat because they will never replicate even a fraction of the power of the true Jiang Cheng anti ultimate wwx supporter Wen Ning. As they do not have his beautiful whimsy and true heart's kindness

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guqin-and-flute · 2 months

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Something about the fact that these shots are all grouped together, one after another, visually giving them equal weight just gets me. The narrative knows what's going to happen between JGY and Huaisang at this point, knows how it's going to treat JGY at the end of everything. And it still takes time to show Meng Yao instinctively and immediately going in front of Huaisang and Huaisang instinctively and immediately hiding behind him. It takes the time--literally, showed it in the background and focused on it with the same general amount of time as the other shots--to show that this act of protection and trust are just as real and true as Jiang Cheng defending his sister, as Wen Qing defending her younger brother.

Like, I dunno! There are other Nie juniors there! They have swords and shit! Huaisang could have gone and hid behind the wall, but he hid behind Meng Yao! And Meng Yao could have moved back with Huaisang, but he steps directly in front of him!

There's a lot CQL did to JGY's character and narrative that I don't like and that flatten or just straight up erase his full complexity. But I really appreciate the lengths that it went to in Episode 4 to explicitly tell us that he does not hesitate to protect Huaisang, even though at this point he does not have a sword and definitely does not have anywhere near the same cultivation power (if any) as any of the rest of the people in the room.

Right now, after being publicly humiliated, unarmed and definitely outclassed, he is brave. Along with the rest of the characters, he's allowed to be uncomplicatedly young and loyal and just as innocent as any of the other students there.

#Besides Wen Chao fuck u bud #Honestly I think that along with Xichen Huaisang is the other person he legitimately never considered hurting #(In the same way that he didn't consider killing Mingjue hurting them but I digress)#With Xichen I think there were plenty of times were he came to the conclusion that fucking him over or overtly manipulating him #in a disadvantageous way would benefit himself and he actively decided that he would not do that #Whereas with Huaisang I just get the impression that it never occurred to him to do that #And I'm not saying that was ALWAYS out of the goodness of his heart #I think he genuinely didn't think he would get anything out of taking advantage of Huaisang personally or politically #Which is not the most ringing of endorsement next to 'I knew I could and chose not to'#But it wasn't ALWAYS that #for a man who has to constantly be on guard and look for leverage in every single interaction and aspect of his life #I think it's pretty significant that he let Huaisang in so close that he was shocked when he found a metaphorical sword in his chest #along with the physical one #Because in never trying to hurt him he never felt he had to defend against him #He loved him. They both loved each other :(#Also him finding Huaisang's bird antics so genuinely amusing in the background of this ep is just 😭#jgy #nhs #my stuff #jgy meta #nhs meta #text

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dani474 · 4 months

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Tell us your theory on why he says that PLEASE. I don’t think it’s true they have to fix things 😭

So, this post points out a huge flaw in Wei Wuxian's response and its discrepancy to what we know of their relationship in canon. The Golden Core transfer is one of MANY things they need to discuss to get past their estranged, brittle, slightly obsessive relationship.

When we take a close look at why Jiang Cheng is so angry and so hurt here, it's not just about his family or any debt Wei Wuxian might have had to his parents. Ultimately, it's about Wei Wuxian's promise to remain by Jiang Cheng's side. He lost his parents and their entire sect, then he lost his own core trying to protect Wei Wuxian (who doesn't know!) then his "martial brother/brother/best friend/whatever" not only goes missing for three months but returns with new powers and new issues he won't share with anyone. Not even Yanli.

Jiang Cheng wanted to protect Wei Wuxian but was unable to due to larger political circumstances and the fact that he didn't know about the transfer. He didn't know why Wei Wuxian was using demonic cultivation! He warns Wei Wuxian again and again that there are larger risks of his cultivation, and he turned out to be right. Trouble found Wei Wuxian even when he ran off and hid peacefully! And he never knew why.

To Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian asking to leave the sect -- regardless of whether or not it was to protect them from further scrutiny by the other sects -- is him asking to leave Jiang Cheng's side. To break their promise without any explanation. He already lost so much and all he can see here is losing another person he loves.

I want to drive that point in, really.

Any insecurity Jiang Cheng feels over Wei Wuxian's capabilities is often outweighed by his sense of responsibility towards rebuilding his sect and attempting to protect what remains of the family he had before the attack on Lotus Pier.

He didn't want to tell Wei Wuxian about why he lost his golden core for the same exact reason that Wei Wuxian kept the surgery a secret. They didn't want to hurt each other with the knowledge of such a great sacrifice. A sacrifice no one would have ever asked of either of them, no matter what was "owed." The Transfer was experimental and pretty much something no cultivator would even attempt. That's what made this choice so risky and so hard to account for.

Neither had any real way to weight the risks and consequences of this situation, and by never talking about it even during a tearful argument, we got canon events. (I've seen people talk about how Wei Wuxian's circumstances meant he had very little else to choose but survival, but this is true for Jiang Cheng too.)

And really. They both tried so hard to survive. And yet, when faced with terrible choices, they chose to protect each other. Putting their cultivation on the line to save each other's lives is not something anyone would normally do. Duty could have been a factor, but in my opinion, it wouldn't have taken Wei Wuxian that far. It wasn't even a factor in Jiang Cheng's.

And I think this is why people feel so put off by Wei Wuxian claiming it was done out of duty to the Yunmeng Jiang family. But it doesn't start with him. Their entire confrontation starts out with Jiang Cheng questioning what the sect meant to Wei Wuxian, if everything they gave him (everything they were to him) was worth nothing. This is almost entirely a projection of what Jiang Cheng asks when he cries. What he really feels is hidden in questions about martial duty.

"Why did you not tell me?"

For all his words, it was less about their sect and so much more about Jiang Cheng feeling like he was worth nothing to Wei Wuxian.

We know this. But Wei Wuxian doesn't.

I didn't notice it immediately, but Wei Wuxian's whole thing is deflection. It's about telling small truths and laughing things off or forcing himself to forget entirely. By the end of their confrontation, he does it again by asking Jiang Cheng to let it stay in the past, now that it's out there, but this does nothing to reduce the tension. It just deflects it again.

I think Wei Wuxian's response to Jiang Cheng's questions was to focus on what he thought was most important. Duty, debt to the Yunmeng Jiang. It was a deflection from what was really wrong. He didn't want to address his own complicated feeling, much less try to untangle whether Jiang Cheng hates him or loves him, so he doesn't.

Whatever broke between them wasn't about duty of any kind. It was about sacrifice, and the pain of carrying its burden alone. It was about loving someone enough to do something so drastic and never being able to say it.

Jiang Cheng hearing that the transfer was out of duty hurts him deeply, because he doesn't know that Wei Wuxian loves him. But Wei Wuxian doesn't know that's what Jiang Cheng is looking for. He hears the first part of their confrontation and responds to that.

Not, "Why did you never tell me?" But 'Did the Yunmeng Jiang mean nothing to you?'

Those are two different questions.

Wei Wuxian is trying to tell Jiang Cheng that it did mean something. That Lotus Pier's destruction, the Jiang parents and Yanli's deaths mattered to him. He's trying to release Jiang Cheng's burden without realizing that, by saying it had nothing to do with him, he's saying that Jiang Cheng didn't matter enough.

This is not how Wei Wuxian feels, we know this. But, again, Jiang Cheng doesn't.

They're talking right past each other, and because of all their other issues, they not only don't realize it, but might never be able to truly address it. They're so used to keeping their feelings hidden from each other that they can't even see how much they, as individuals, matter to each other.

TL;DR.

Both of them love each other and couldn't say it because of their complicated. Well, everything. Instead, their misconceptions cause them both to focus on the wrong things at the wrong time. By asking about what the Yunmeng Jiang meant to Wei Wuxian, it hides what Jiang Cheng really wants to know: if it was done out of love and protectiveness as his sacrifice had been. By focusing on this deflection, Wei Wuxian hides his own feelings by placing duty to the Jiang sect in highest importance. He gives the answer that he thinks Jiang Cheng wants to hear.

So, no, I don't think Wei Wuxian wasn't telling the truth (or at least not the full truth) either.

In the end, this is not what either of them actually wanted from the confrontation and does very little to address their actual emotional issues. All it really does is open the door for something to change in the future.

#asks #mdzs #wei wuixan #jiang cheng #golden core reveal #meta #my post #mine.txt

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viterbofangirllovestheuntamed · 1 year

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So.

According to @demiace-wen-ning‘s iconic post, every MXTX novel has:

A red/black, morally ambiguous, all-powerful bastard man

A fan wielder who is much more than meets the eye

And a fucking Jiang Cheng

Now we, as a collective fandom, have decided with our communal braincell that in SVSSS, the “fucking Jiang Cheng”™ character is Liu Qingge. And on the surface, this seems Right and Good:

HOWEVER! I posit that these aspects are only the most superficial and external aspects of the vast and multi-layered Dagwood sandwich that is fundamental “fucking Jiang Cheng”™yness. “fucking Jiang Cheng”™ has LAYERS. And for all that I love Liu Qingge, I love him in the same way I love the Sonic franchise’s Knuckles the Echidna:

This is emphatically NOT how I love Jiang Cheng. Furthermore, this is demonstrably NOT the sort of character that a fandom becomes viciously divisive about. This is the sort of character you either like or dislike and move on with your life because he is not deep and complex enough to Die On This Hill for defending. (This is a Feng Xin or Nie Mingjue sort of character.)

So what makes for a “fucking Jiang Cheng”™ character? What are the quintessential “fucking Jiang Cheng”™ characteristics that result in a complex and divisive character? I propose:

ambiguous/unexplained actions

refusal to explain motives

canon selfless actions missed or negatively interpreted

socially over-conscious while still socially detested

harsh and contemptuous outward behavior

honestly, naturally is an asshole, but holds back just enough to get away with it

hard-working but overshadowed by upstart prodigy

childhood trauma that fundamentally affected behavioral patterns

aggressively focused on their cultivation and consequent social status

secretly heartbroken about a perceived betrayal regarding the protagonist

yay, war crimes!

These attributes all describe Jiang Cheng. All but the last one describe Mu Qing, with the second-to-last applying in a way where HE is perceived as the betrayer. None of these attributes describe Liu Qingge. But you know who they DO describe in SVSSS?

Shen Jiu.

The ORIGINAL Shen Qingqiu.

An undeniable asshole who nevertheless gets punished for every good deed he ever did, who clawed and scraped his way to the top of the cultivation world and ensured he stayed there no matter how many bridges he had to burn or enemies he had to make along the way, who acts like a bitter tsundere to the person who matters most to him because said person broke their promise and never explained why, whose childhood was a never-ending parade of trauma and abuse that molded him into a harsh and suspicious individual, who (though we don’t find out until the extras) shows no sexual interest in anyone, whose own path to cultivation was so difficult and traumatic that they could not stop themselves from jealously lashing out at the heaven-blessed prodigy standing right next to them.

Shen Jiu is the TRUE “fucking Jiang Cheng”™ of SVSSS, and I cordially invite any haters to bring it on because this is My Hill and I am ready to fight for it.

#jiang cheng #liu qingge #mu qing #shen jiu #original shen qingqiu #svsss #mdzs #tgcf #comparisons #parallels #mxtx #meta post #MOD'S STUFF #NOT coincidentally this is exactly why shen jiu is my svsss fave after shen yuan's SQQ who is such a hilariously snarky marshmallow

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twilightarc-gm · 1 month

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hello :D can you tell me why you like chengxian?

A Non-Comprehensive Guide to Twi's Love of ChengXian

Yes I spent time making this edit. I love them and I'm not an artist so sue me.

Short Answer: I love these two self-sacrificing assholes and their aesthetics and I think they should kiss and get a happy ending for once. If MXTX doesn't want to do it, I'll write it instead! 😤

Long Answer: Click the Read More

"As long as we both live in this world, we'll meet sooner or later." -- Vol1 Chap6

👏 MDZS literally doesn't happen without Yunmeng Shuangjie, it doesn't happen without the huge sense of debt and love and envy and pride and duty that comprises everything about the relationship between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng. They must meet because their stories are so wrapped up in each other that where one ends and the other begins is a blurred line at best.

MXTX put in so much work to separate these two for the happily ever after she wanted and if you think about it too much you start to wonder if the Wei Wuxian we grew to love with this story, that says this kind of line, is ever going to be really happy without Jiang Cheng in his life.

💗It's not incest, but the boys wish it was. I am half-joking about this, but also absolutely serious. The vague labels on their relationship is a very big part of the point!

They are very much the Shixiong/shidi(mei) xianxia/wuxia romance trope. The talented and wonderful shixiong. The shidi(mei) that adores their shixiong but can't be honest about it. Childhood friends to sweethearts. MXTX uses this trope and subverts it by not making it endgame or letting the story just end with the tragedy of the First Siege.

She uses the power of this trope to feed into everything in and around the secret of the Golden Core Transfer. It ends up affecting the entire cultivation world as the greatest token of love, of devotion, of sacrifice, of consequence, of dubious consent, of the crux of the very story itself... which is just incredibly powerful.

And the rest of MDZS flows from that.

He had always thought Jiang Cheng would be the one standing with him, and Lan Wangji against him. He'd never imagined that reality would be the complete opposite.

This is literally errata from vol1 official pg 262 and I swear it wasn't put in the first time because it feeds ChengXian too much. You say that Wei Wuxian thought Jiang Cheng would always be by his side? He couldn't imagine a world where that wasn't true?? That now he's in a reality where it's the opposite??? Omg???? Like this is the sum of the ChengXian tragedy right here because MXTX made a reality where they couldn't be together! 💔😭

Like LOOK!

“When you become the family head, I’ll be your subordinate. We’ll be just like our fathers. Who cares about the Twin Jades of Lan? Our Yunmeng has Twin Heroes! So—just shut up. Who said you’re not worthy of being family head? No one’s allowed to say that, not even you. Say it and you’re asking to get beat.” --Vol3 Chap12

You see for me it's about the strain between love and duty and all the points where those two cross.

My actual favorite romance trope is king/lionheart - lord/devoted - leader/subordinate - patron/agent - master/servant - 知己 (zhiji)

this relationship of knowing is one that is worth dying for

“So when Wei-gongzi returned to seek us out, my jiejie was reluctant to even attempt the procedure, at first. She warned him that writing an essay was one thing, but actually doing it was quite another. She wasn’t even confident she’d have a fifty percent chance of success.

“But Wei-gongzi kept pestering her. He said fifty percent was fine; the chances of success and failure were equal. Even if it didn’t work out and his core was wasted, he wasn’t worried about his future—but that wasn’t the case for Sect Leader Jiang. He was too competitive, too focused on what he stood to gain and lose in this aspect, since cultivation was his life. And if Sect Leader Jiang could only ever be an ordinary, mediocre person, his life would be over.” --Vol4 Chap19

Wei Wuxian was willing to risk his life on a 50% chance if it meant Jiang Cheng would Live. Yes yes Wei Wuxian's patent assholery here about how Jiang Cheng is so competitive etc, classic fooling himself. The point is that Jiang Cheng wouldn't be Jiang Cheng anymore and Wei Wuxian would rather die than experience that. Would rather cut himself apart than fail to protect his shidi.

Speaking of failures...

Perhaps there was this:

“I didn’t get caught by the Wen Clan because I insisted on returning to Lotus Pier to retrieve my parents’ bodies.

“When you went to buy rations in that small town during our escape, a group of Wen cultivators caught up to us.

“I noticed them early and left the spot where I’d been sitting to hide in a corner of the street. I didn’t get caught, but they were patrolling, and they would have surely bumped into you while you were getting us food.

“So I ran out and lured them away.” --Vol5 Chap22

Jiang Cheng never wanted Wei Wuxian to die, let alone die for him. He breaks down at the shrine coming to terms with what he will ultimately think of as his fault. We know this because when he feels at fault he doesn't speak of his good intentions. So, he distracts the Wen-dogs from Wei Wuxian > Gets caught and survives, broken > as far as he knows he's miraculously healed > only to find out that Wei Wuxian was taken by the Wen-dogs anyway 3 months later > Jiang Cheng never speaks of his failures, so will never say how lost his core in the first place > a war and 13 years later he finds out that not only did he fail to protect Wei Wuxian from Wen-dogs, but now also knows unequivocally that Wei Wuxian's descent into heretic cultivation was his fault... again.

As tears streamed down his face, he hissed through gritted teeth, “…Why…why didn’t you tell me?!”

And he begs to know why Wei Wuxian would do this!

“Consider it a repayment of my debt to the Jiangs,” Wei Wuxian added.

Jiang Cheng raised his head and looked at him with bloodshot eyes. “…To my father, my mother, my sister?” he asked in a hoarse voice.

Not him. Wei Wuxian won't admit it's for Jiang Cheng--the shidi he meant to protect as a good shixiong, the master he was meant to support, the heir and symbol of the clan and sect he loved so much he would readily lose a hand to protect.

The way Wei Wuxian tortures Wen Zhuliu by leaving him whole and standing while his charge Wen Chao is torn up bit by bit... The delicious parallels of -- you made me a failure, now see how you like it, watch the one you are meant to protect be torn asunder.

...

Hold on I need a moment...

...

How about some cute stuff?

Wei Wuxian waved him off and then hooked his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders. -- Vol1 Chap4

He put his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders and dragged him over to the veranda railings to sit down.

[...]

Jiang Cheng was quiet, but he seemed to have calmed down a little. Wei Wuxian put an arm around his shoulders again. --Vol3 Chap12

💗Wei Wuxian is always all over the person/s he likes and loves. Jiang Yanli might have been the first to carry Wei Wuxian but Jiang Cheng's were the first shoulders he chose to hang off of. Jiang Cheng stands so straight because he is used to bearing Wei Wuxian's weight! (Also he's of the gentry, and you can make arguments about a rod in places where the sun doesn't shine, but Wei Wuxian benefits regardless!)

Among all the kicks and shoves and rough housing and sparring, they are just so tactile.

Gif from this post.

… Jiang Cheng, walk slower, you’re gonna throw me off.”

Not only did Jiang Cheng want to throw Wei Wuxian off, but he practically wanted to bash his head into the ground to create a human crater. “So fussy even though I’m carrying you!”

“I didn’t tell you to carry me,” Wei Wuxian reasoned.

Jiang Cheng flew into a rage. “If I didn’t carry you, I think you’d hang out at their ancestral hall all day, rolling around on the floor. I can’t afford this embarrassment! Lan Wangji took fifty more strikes than you, but he walked away on his own, and you’re not embarrassed, pretending to be an invalid? I don’t want to carry you anymore. Get the hell off!”

“No, I’m wounded,” Wei Wuxian said. --Vol1 Chap4

💜 Yes I am bringing back this quote from my Jiang Cheng appreciation post.

Hnng, I am trying to be more concise, but like one of the things I also enjoy in romance is how two imperfect people choose to be together and that choice that they make is the gold and solder that fits the pieces together into art. Sure MDZS didn't want to go there even though that's where it started, but to me it will only ever be the story of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian.

Honestly even Yi City arc is YMSJ | CX to me.

Song Lan = Jiang Cheng

Xiao Xingchen = Wei Wuxian

Baoshan Sanren is involved

Eyes = Golden Core

Baixue Temple = Yunmeng Jiang

GUILT

RUNNING AWAY

Xue Yang = Yuan Qi (Resentment) Modao/Guidao

CORRUPTION

A-Qing = lwj being obsessed with WWX and fighting his use of guidao like a-Qing is distrustful of XY and XXC being friends with him.

XXC kills SL = WWX kills JC (figuratively, JYL's death destroyed the last of the JC from their childhood and all the trust he had in WWX (you cannot tell me that WWX doesn't feel like he caused JYL's death (he couldn't control the corpse that hurt her, he didn't sense the sword coming for him and she had to protect him)))

XXC's suicide and shattered soul is thus my grounds for headcanon to what actually happened to WWX at the First Siege, just sayin'

...

Anyway that's a bunch of canon stuff how about the realm of fanfiction/art?

Meme Format Reasons Twi is unwell about ChengXian:

From this post (yes that's my same edit)

Art Commissioned (So Far, more on the way and some I can't share yet) for ChengXian:

Happy ChengXian with Wei Wuxian in Purple by @robinade

Supportive ChengXian in pretty clothes! by Sugar_Shoal

Some more points for consideration:

💗 Point 1: They can't be normal about each other, due in large part by the people who raised them being unable to be normal about them either.

💗 Point 2: Their opposing ideologies, duties, and priorities make for the best drama, but in a better narrative, would balance each other.

💗 Point 3: Martial sibling romance ➡ tragedy! They fought together! Thought the future would be them together always! Then everything in the narrative tears it apart and all they're left with are the ashes of their choices and the lies that buried them.

💗 Point 4: Every AU where they end up happy instead!! 😭 I can't wait for @twinclownsoflotuspiers next CX Happy Ending event! Thankfully there is also @omiixcx coming up this APR 21st-27th! 👀 Yes that was a promo and prod.

💜 Point 5: ChengXian Pros = Zongzhu-shidi getting to love and protect his shixiong fully and truly without restraint.

🖤 Point 6: XianCheng Pros = Overprotective shixiong merciless in his affections for his Zongzhu-shidi.

💗 Point 7: Ship them for tropes based on miscommunication, acts of service, there was only one bed, boundary issues, genderfuckery, soul bound by choice, bickering, bantering, finishing each other's sentences, married-divorced-never-were, childhood shenanigans, cutting oneself on the other and denying the blood ever was...

...

I am not even getting into the monster/monster-maker aspect, am I? They are both at the same time!

JC makes WWX a monster by being the recipient of the golden core and believing WWX has control of guidao so encourages its use.

WWX makes JC a monster by lying to him until their relationship is broken irrevocably at the Bloodbath and years after JC is known for hunting demonic cultivators.

If you want to get really dark with it, there's also the cannibalistic aspect. WWX becomes a part of JC with the transfer. JC unwittingly consumes WWX and his fortune. The golden core is in the lower dantian, the belly, behind and below the navel. The symbology..! XianCheng is really good for the more gothic themes of the ship.

Let's be real, the vibes are straight up Wuthering Heights in multiple facets. MXTX recently admitted to that novel was one she read so insert conspiracy theory red string board meme here!

...

I spend a lot of time readdressing the themes introduced with the YMSJ dynamic and are exacerbated by the golden core transfer and the way Wei Wuxian handles and fails to handle that situation. I like how destructive they are about each other. There's a lot of potential there to create something together as well, but they were never given the chance.

Ideally, after the Jiang parents were gone and not influencing them anymore, or if they aged up enough to just stand on their own—and Wei Wuxian has his cultivation intact... Well in that scenario they could have easily stayed the Twin Prides/Heroes of Yunmeng and they would have been so happy being in the home they both loved and making the most of their lives one step at a time and arguing the whole way.

...

That's what fanfiction is for! 💜💗🖤

Hey, you made it to the end! I hope that was entertaining at least there is so much going on with this ship sometimes my brain just goes brrrr about it, y'know? Take care! Happy CX thoughts to you!

#chengxian #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #twi posts

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wutheringskies · 8 months

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everyone is like: if wei wuxian told everyone he gave his core to Jiang Cheng, all of this wouldn't have happened!

me: if he told jiang cheng, it would be WORSE.

consider these points:

Jiang Cheng was a newly appointed sect leader, hell-bent on revenge, finally surpassing others. He would emotionally break if he finds out it's all because of Wei Wuxian's core. He wouldn't want to lose it; but Wei Wuxian holding that over his head will make it terrible for him; rage, tantrums; in that war-time would have literally robbed him of his senses.

This is a war. If some people find out Wei Wuxian doesn't have a core, what's stopping the enemy from finding out? Even so, there would be people who wish to kill the ever-powerful son of a servant. The hundreds-hole curse could only succeed because Jin Zixun had low cultivation. Think of how many enemies (Wens, and the others) Wei Wuxian had. They don't dare curse him because 1) they believe he has superior cultivation and 2) if he comes for revenge with his stygian tiger seal and chenqing, it simply wouldn't be worth it. So, high risk and low reward. but in actuality, if someone did curse him, without a core to cleanse him, it would be fatal!

As the "son of a servant" and "wielder of immense power," his place in the cultivation world was already unstable. If they find out he doesn't even have a core, he cannot stay in the cultivation world! If he leaves, then there's no protection guaranteed for him from those who wish to claim his power anyway!

Literally, the only ones who would genuinely care would be Lan Wangji and Jiang Yanli. And what could they do? Lan Xichen would be sympathetic, but when has sympathy saved lives when there's no follow-up action? Nie Mingjue would commend his sacrifice, but will he save the Wens? Nope. Nobody would magically go like, "oh, let us help wei wuxian who doesn't have a core tragically."

Among the general public, would anyone look at it as anything other than a grand sacrifice for his superior? "Wei Wuxian is really loyal," and when he saves the Wens, it would go down the path of, "Can't believe he betrayed the Jiang Clan."

The only one who wished to know the why's and the how's and the reasoning behind it all was Lan Wangji. Lan Wangji, who would try his utter best; but Wei Wuxian himself was so powerful. Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan were powerful. Wen Qing and Wen Ning were also powerful. All the righteous people had tragic ends - if Lan Wangji was allowed to know, he would push harder at Wei Ying. But will Wei Ying accept it? Will he feel a certain disregard of respect? A lack of trust from Lan Wangji because they dont have the fundamentals down?How can it magically make things alright, when their issues go deeper than Wei Wuxian being on an "unorthodox path"? So, who's to say, even if Lan Wangji realized it all, somehow forced himself into Wei Wuxian's space when Wei Wuxian did not want it with some OOC syndrome, but even then what can he do? In the end, rather than just one, both would die. The odds are bad when it's 1 vs 3000, but is it much better if it's 2 vs 3000?

Wei Wuxian's arrogance protected the secret that would've signed him out of the war, out of the cultivation world. The fear people had for him protected him. Even after his death, they only noticed the annihilation of minor clans because "oh no yllz is here to take revenge!" If he acted weak and approachable and sad, just how few would hold true empathy compared to all the many that would see an opportunity to strike? Whoever wields power, speaks out, and is from an unproveleged background yet sitting among the gentry is already an outcast.

The only way he wouldn't have died were if he were someone who bowed to servitude, if he kept quiet, if he counted his losses and gains like Jin Guangyao. Will this harm me? Yes. So I cannot do it.

That's not Wei Wuxian.

"Let gains and losses remain uncommented upon." If the whole world wishes to kill innocents to satiate their own hatred then the whole world is wrong, and he won't stand up for it - whether or not, he has a romantic relationship with Lan Wangji early, or if he's actual siblings with the Jiangs (like actually adopted.)

Whether he wields a sword or his flute or nothing at all; whether he's loved or hated, he is bound to be resented by those who are hypocrites. The loss of his golden core won't shake them with empathy, but mockery not just towards him, but towards Jiang Wanyin as well.

"Congratulations, Jiang Cheng, for killing the man who killed your entire family (false, but you know) and was unrighteous!"

"But isn't the Jiang Clan only alive because of Wei Wuxian's core?"

"Jiang Wanyin is such a loser; he took his servant's core."

That would be a fucking literal nightmare. That is why, Wei Wuxian doesn't say a word or whine or cry. He probably thought he could wait until Jiang clan is in a better spot and tell only Jiang Cheng, but by then, he'd already been caught up in the Wen's situation.

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #golden core transfer #golden core reveal #mdzs meta #my meta #my essays

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least-carpet · 10 months

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I am curious: how do you think would work realistically a jc and wwx's reconciliation? Have you any meta on them and their relationship?

I'm sorry this took a minute, anon! Work has been frankly chaotic. But I saw an anti-reconciliation post¹ and I have been roused from my post-work stupor.

Unfortunately, you asked me for something I'm incompetent at, which is plotting. (Otherwise I would have already unleashed my ningcheng fic upon the world.) What I can talk about is what I find compelling about potential reconciliation and potential scenarios.

Why do I love a post-canon reconciliation?

Apart from really liking their relationship and finding it compelling—IMO it's the heart of the narrative of the first life—what I actually enjoy about it is what it offers in terms of development for Wei Wuxian.

I read Wei Wuxian as having displaced and projected a lot of his unresolved trauma onto Jiang Cheng. I've talked a little before about my reading of Jiang Cheng as the "bad feelings" sin eater of the Yunmeng Trio—neither Jiang Yanli nor Wei Wuxian feel like they can express deep unhappiness, but Jiang Cheng is bad at hiding his, so in some way it's his job to embody the collective unhappiness of the children of that family system.

But although this makes Wei Wuxian merry and likeable, it's not actually good for anyone, or even sustainable—when he loses control, he really loses control. And his coping skills are extremely self-destructive, as we can see from the post-war downward spiral of drinking and avoidance. I also think his experiences in his childhood (losing his parents and being homeless) plus his wartime experiences gave him some kind of trauma disorder that contributes to his terrible memory, which he's turned into his primary coping mechanism (apart from alcohol). If I Simply Close My Eyes And Run Away, My Bad Feelings Can't Get Me!

But, like, repressing your feelings doesn't work forever. He's compartmentalized his whole first life to function in the second one, but that means giving up on everything and everyone he loved, including the Jiang siblings and Lotus Pier. That's incredibly tragic to me.

Sometimes I think antis are so happy to demonize Jiang Cheng in order to minimize the depth of the loss Wei Wuxian has suffered. If he never loved Jiang Cheng, if they were never close and devoted to one another, if their childhood was an unending misery, then wouldn't Wei Wuxian be much freer in the present?

But what I think has happened is that the loss is so huge that it's completely terrifying and threatening. So are the feelings around killing Jin Zixuan, Jiang Yanli's death, and the death of Wen Qing and the Wen remnants. It's too much, so he blocks it out or, in some cases, projects it onto Jiang Cheng.

Of course, Jiang Cheng will never forgive him, because he irreparably ruined Jiang Yanli's life and then she died trying to save him and Jin Ling became an orphan. It's all his fault; it can't be forgiven; he might as well give up on it...

Jiang Cheng is obviously very angry and upset with him, it's true. But you can see how projecting his guilt and shame over his actions onto Jiang Cheng and then running away from Jiang Cheng is also a way for him to escape his guilt and shame over what happened to Jiang Yanli. (And to escape all the repressed resentment he has for Jiang Cheng because of the core transfer.²)

But there are two tragic elements of this approach. One, that by doing this he yields up any possible relationship with Jiang Cheng, and with the Jiang Sect, because by all means Wei Wuxian must escape him in order to outrun his terrible feelings. Two, that it's another coping mechanism that distorts the reality of the situation, which is that they were all swept up in power games beyond their capacity to manage, and they did their best—the Jiang siblings, the Wen siblings, Jin Zixuan, and Wei Wuxian—and it still went badly for everyone except the Jin Sect.

I don't think he can confront that yet. But I do think that Wei Wuxian feels very safe with Lan Wangji, and sometimes a safe and supportive relationship can provide the resources to do things you didn't think you could do before.

Can you imagine a different conversation, that begins with the bald acknowledgement of failure and wrongdoing³? "I never meant for all of that to happen. I did what I thought was right, but I never thought Jiang Yanli would be harmed, and I didn't intend to kill Jin Zixuan. I am so sorry. I miss her."

GIVE THE CATHARSIS TO ME. GIVE IT HERE.

A Wei Wuxian who has reached a point where he's capable of that accountability and vulnerability is delicious to me. A Wei Wuxian who can get there can return to Lotus Pier and rebuild a relationship with the living sect and his living sect brother.

How could it happen?

The trick is how to get there, 'cause it's like trying to herd cats where one cat is mortally afraid of facing the second and the other one has betrayal trauma and abandonment issues. But the cats love each other! They do!

I don't see Jiang Cheng initiating. I see him as being more open to a reconciliation, now that he knows why Wei Wuxian did what he did, but I see him as being profoundly afraid of trapping people in relationship with him or inflicting himself on people who don't want him around. (Not, like, for politics. In that arena I assume he's unpleasant when necessary to great effect.)

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian can be led if you're cunning enough to do it and you bait the trap with something good (see the plot of MDZS for Nie Huaisang's very successful demonstration of this principle). He also will increase pursuit if you dangle and withdraw the bait.

The question, of course, is what makes good bait for catching Wei Wuxian. Some options:

Option 1: murder mystery. Someone dies in an exciting way that involves Jiang Cheng. (Wei Wuxian will involve himself, dude loves a murder mystery.) It could be in the Jiang Sect or the Jin Sect; if it involves Jin Ling, Jiang Cheng will jump in with a swiftness.

Option 2: Jiang Cheng marriage rumours. Doesn't even have to involve unsavoury rumous about the potential wife; Jiang Cheng getting married without him (like Jiang Yanli) would dredge up some feelings, I think.

Option 3: Jiang Cheng tragic illness or curse rumours. You better be sure it was in a past life, cause it looks like this one might be over soon!

Option 4: Forced together time (due to a night hunt or a kidnapping, etc.). It's time for the getting along shirt!

To borrow from SVSSS, you might need a scenario-pusher for it to happen. But the world of MDZS is rife with these opportunities, and cultivators can live a very long time. So there's hope yet!

Footnotes:

1. This is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to come to by the end of the novel. It's simply one I don't share.

2. See this passage from the confrontation in the Guanyin Temple:

"It wasn’t something he liked to reminisce about. He didn’t want to be reminded again and again of what it felt like when his core was cut out or what price he had to pay. If this were exposed in the past, he’d most likely laugh and comfort Jiang Cheng … But now, he indeed didn’t have the strength left to put up such a confident, nonchalant pretense.

From the bottom of his heart, he knew he wasn’t so indifferent about it after all.

Was it really that easy to move on from such a thing?

Of course not." (Chapter 103, "Hatred," ExR translation)

3. I saw a different post complaining about Wei Wuxian apologizing to Jiang Cheng in reconciliation scenarios, and I just, like, he kicked off a political firestorm that ended in the death of Jiang Yanli and her husband. This is completely separate from the non-consensual surgery and all the lying he was doing about that. He owes him multiple different apologies! And Jiang Cheng should also apologize to him! That's why they apologize to each other in the Temple, because they know they hurt each other! The point of an apology in an intimate relationship is to connect with the person you are apologizing to in order to repair the relationship, and the Temple was not the time, which is why they need a private do-over! It's not humiliation, it's intimacy, connection, and repair. How do y'all live your lives.

3.5 Also, imagine it to be more in-character than that.

#anon asks #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng shuangjie #chengxian #yunmeng shuangjie reconciliation #mdzs +#meta #least-carpet thoughts

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youhideastar · 26 days

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WujiWatch: CQL Rewatch Episode 19

I’ve read some takes that Jiang Cheng must actually know right at the start that he has Wei Wuxian’s core (or that he’d have to be incredibly stupid/in denial not to) because he wakes up with a great big scar over his lower dantian. Other clues are sometimes cited – that Baoshan Sanren sounds exactly like Wen Qing with a cold; that the whole Baoshan Sanren plan makes no sense anyway; and later, that Wei Wuxian acts like a person without a golden core, in his physical weakness and his reliance on cultivation that doesn’t require one.

I’m sorry, but these are terrible takes. As a practical matter, Wen Ning says, after the big reveal, that the surgery took two days, and the title card post-surgery in this episode says “Seven days later.” Those five extra days were sufficient to allow Jiang Cheng’s—now super-powerful—core to heal the incision without scarring. (Indeed, one assumes that’s why Wen Qing kept him sedated for those extra days.) The Wen Qing-with-a-cold thing is fair, but it’s not exactly a smoking gun

As a thematic and psychological matter, moreover, the point about the Baoshan Sanren plan making no sense is, I think, not fair. Anyone with any psychological acuity knows that the easiest lie is one your subject already believes to be true, and after that, the lie your subject wants to be true. Wei Wuxian plays on this ruthlessly in shopping the plan to Jiang Cheng—but it works even better than he realizes, because he doesn’t know why Jiang Cheng lost his golden core. The details Wei Wuxian feeds Jiang Cheng—particularly his instruction that Jiang Cheng should pretend to be him, that the immortals will only help him if they think he’s Wei Wuxian, that Wei Wuxian has this one golden ticket he can redeem and he’s spending it on Jiang Cheng—would have felt deeply, karmically right to Jiang Cheng, because they resonate with the fact of his sacrifice. I lost my core for you, he’s thinking, so now you give up your immortal get-out-of-jail-free card for me. I lost my core by trading places with you; now I’ll regain it by stepping into your shoes.

Of course, Jiang Cheng is more right than he knows.

#the untamed #wujiwatch #cql #meta #cql meta #jiang cheng

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wangxianficrecs · 1 month

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Shine Brightly, That I May Glow by TheLegendOfChel

Shine Brightly, That I May Glow

by TheLegendOfChel (@the-legend-of-chel)

M, WIP, 62k, Wangxian

Summary:Every thousand years, two soulmates are born; one blessed by the power of the sun and the other by the moon. The Lan Sect rejoices when their second young master bears the mark of the moon. However, his other half is nowhere to be found. With every year that passes, the cultivation world becomes more desperate to find the missing sun spirit, and the Wen Clan in particular seems increasingly intent on claiming the sun spirit as their own. ----- When Lan Wangji is fifteen he meets Wei Wuxian, a guest disciple who is loud, annoying...and bright in every possible way. Kay's comments: This story is on hiatus, but it's definitely still definitely a story you should check out! It has the sun & moon combination of Wangxian that I am very fond of, Lan Wangji blessed by the moon and Wei Wuxian blessed by the sun, soulmates who are meant to be. Only no one knows that Wei Wuxian is blessed by the sun, because the Wens are yearning to claim the sun spirit for themselves and yet, Wangxian are still drawn to each other. I love their relationship in this, being drawn together despite Wei Wuxian's hidden identity as the sun spirit. It's just *chef's kiss* Excerpt: That being said, they were few and far between. Lan Wangji usually acted like Wei Wuxian didn’t exist, sometimes going so far as to put a silencing spell on him. Rude. Wei Wuxian would then retaliate by making silly faces at Lan Wangji, but the moon spirit didn’t even seem to notice. There were a few times Wei Wuxian considered just telling Lan Wangji that he was the sun spirit. He promised the Jiangs that he wouldn’t reveal his true identity to anyone, but surely Lan Wangji didn’t count? However, in the end Wei Wuxian decided against it. Maybe he would have felt differently if Lan Wangji had been more open to his friendship from the start, but Wei Wuxian knew that if he told Lan Wangji they were soulmates now and Lan Wangji changed his tune, a part of Wei Wuxian would always wonder if it was only out of a sense of responsibility.

pov alternating, canon divergence, everyone lives/nobody dies, soulmates, soulmate-identifying marks, secret identity, identity reveal, mutual pining, secret relationship, dreamsharing, light angst, jiang cheng/nie huaisang, sangcheng, kidnapping

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

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shanastoryteller · 1 year

Note

Happy Valentines, Shana! More Female!Mo Xuanyu!Wei Wuxian please? The drama and identity porn and hijinx are Too Good!

a continuation of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Through several death defying feats and lots of bruises, Wei Wuxian has finally strengthened Mo Xuanyu’s core enough to track the threads of the curse mark. This should be a moment of triumph, what he’s been building towards, finally able to see who it is that drove Mo Xuanyu to such foolish, desperate lengths.

Mostly he’s just frustrated.

“Jin Guangshan?” he demands once he pulls himself out of his meditation. “Of all the – he’s not even that good of a cultivator! If she had the power to summon me, surely she had the power to murder him herself!”

Probably not enough power to get away with it, to keep herself from getting caught and tried and executed, but that shouldn’t matter. She died anyway.

Great. Just great. Even if he were willing to kill him, he’s nowhere near Jin Guangshan. Mo Xuanyu should have really left him a note or something. Then he could have dealt with this before being dragged to Cloud Recesses.

Wei Wuxian pauses, considering. Is he willing to kill Jin Guangshan? He’s never liked the man. From his lecherous behavior to his actions after the war and especially with how he’d treated the Wen, he’s never gained an ounce of respect from him. Not to mention forcing Mo Xuanyu into this marriage and legitimatizing her only to prevent his son from being with the man who loves him.

Is that worthy of death? He’s killed for less, but Jin Guangshan is also his sister’s father in law and his nephew’s grandfather.

He wishes Shijie was here. She or even Jiang Cheng would know what he should do.

The thought sends a pang through his chest that he does his best to ignore. He misses his siblings. Being able to see Lan Zhan again, especially when he started being sort of nice to him, is wonderful. But the days he’d been able to spend with Shijie and Jiang Cheng had been too short, and too little, when he couldn’t tell them who he was and had no reason to want to be around them so desperately.

He’d only managed to get glimpses of his nephew, who had his sister’s sweet face and Jin Zixuan’s unfortunate scowl. He’d wanted to go over and pinch his cheeks, but even as his aunt that hadn’t felt like something that he was allowed.

Wei Wuxian breathes in then out, forcing the phantom pain out on his exhale with years of practice.

He can’t ask his siblings. But he can ask Mo Xuanyu’s.

If anyone knows the true moral character of Jin Guangshan, it’s Jin Guangyao.

Wei Wuxian had been avoiding him, both because he wasn’t sure how well Jin Guangyao had known his half sister and he didn’t want to arise suspicion, and also because he hadn’t known him that well the first time around. He’d known him first as an overly polite Nie general, then their spy during the war, and finally as Jin Guangshan’s dutiful son.

None of those roles had ever seemed to fit him quite right. Seeing him interact with Lan Xichen is the closest Wei Wuxian has seen him to relaxed.

He guesses it’s time for the two of them to get to know each other properly.

#prompt answers #prompts are closed #asks #math is magic #untamed

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theballadofmars · 4 months

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RANKING MDZS CHARACTERS AS HOW MUCH I THINK THEY WOULD SURVIVE IN FNAF:

11. MO XUANYU: he dies during the first five minutes. Don't know how. He just does.

10. JIN ZIXUAN: he doesn't listen AT ALL to Phone Guy and just...doesn't do a thing? He probably thinks he's too rich to die.

9. JIANG CHENG: he dies the first night. Just, sorry. He wouldn't follow Phone Guy's instructions at all, or try at the beginning but then gets mad and fights the animatronics. Sorry jc you're not winning this one.

8. NIE MINGJUE: he's not fucking surviving more than 2 nights, I'm sorry. He doesn't know how anything works, he survives the first night by sheer stuborness, but gets out of luck on his second night. He dies fighting thought.

7. XIAO XINGCHENG: he actually gets to the second night, but his problem is that he tries to help the children to move on and, unlike lxc, he gets killed.

6. SON LANG: survives 4 nights, but gets bitten by an animatronic and dies from the injury. He's the only other character who makes it to night 4 this is so funny mdzs character's would be amazing at surviving or terrible.

5. WEI WUXIAN: he ALMOST survives, but he gets scooped in night 5. Idk how, because this is based in fnaf 1, but he gets scooped, 100% sure.

4. LAN WANGJI: is lwj. He doesn't involve himself in the drama like his brother, but is able to survive the 5 nights. Never comes back.

3. LAN XICHEN: weird position, because lxc doesn't look like he would be the best with computers, but he's a Lan. He's not only going to survive the 5 nights, he also saves the souls of the murder children, because he would try to talk to the animatronics and give them therapy sesions.

2. NIE HUAISANG: he actually suffers the first night, because he doesn't know what's going on. The second night tought? He already knows the cheats. He survives and as a plus makes a theory about the lore that it turns out to be true.

1. JIN GUANGYAO: listen, LISTEN. He not only survives the five nights, the extra night and the 20/20 mood. He's jgy. Being a night guard at Freddy's is actually a vacation for him. Animatronics aren't worse than rich people. He even gets bored at night 5.

HONORARY MENTIONS FOR CHARACTERS WHO DOESN'T GET TO BE IN THE RANKING BECAUSE THEY'RE A SPECIAL CASE:

-XUE YANG: this fucker messes with the animatronics ans disassembles them for fun. The animatronics are the ones hiding from him.

-THE FOUR JUNIORS + A-QING: they are the kids possesing the animatronics. Sorry juniors :(

-YANLI: befriends the animatronics somehow. She makes them soup :D

-MIAN MIAN: stays one night, survives, never comes back. They don't pay her enough for this bullshit.

-WANGXIAN: they fuck in the security office and the animatronics are traumatized.

-WEN QING: finds the bodies of the kids and reports it do the police

-WEN NING: look, I think he would get springlocked but wouldn't become a vengative animatronic (unless he's possesed). He's just there behind a wall.

-LAN QIRENG: survives because Lan power, but instead of doing his job as a security guard starts to reprimend the animatronics and tries to teach them THE RULES.

Tgcf characters ranking

#mdzs #the untamed #wangxian #lan xichen #jin guangyao #wen qing #wen ning #jiang yanli #jiang cheng #xue yang #mian mian #xiao xicheng #son lang #nie huaisang #nie mingjue

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asksythe · 1 year

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Hi! I was looking into some stuff and came across a post talking about WWX’s arrogance. It was about WWX’s character and how the fandom insists that his arrogance was one of his main flaws when that’s not true and so on. Then I saw some people saying that arrogance is not inherently bad in Chinese novels and that I might have to do with the way the novel was translated.

I was just wondering if you had some insight on this. Thanks!

On some level, it can be considered a translation issue. But the real reason why WWX's characters, as well as countless other details in MDZS specifically (and Chinese novels broadly speaking), tend to be misunderstood on such a massive scale is... cross-cultural value mismatch.

Consider this:

1/ There is a tendency in the international fanbase to judge WWX (and other characters) on a modern Western moral standard. I don't have to tell you how illogical this is. Imagine if you come into the world of Game of Thrones and start spouting 21st-century judgment. You are likely to become human shishkebabs in less than five minutes. Most people who watch Game of Thrones or read the book understand that's not something you do unless you are a moron or looking to start shit. But for some reason, this is not the case for the MDZS fandom (and many other Chinese media fandoms out there). I'm not sure why this is the case. It might be because of the cultural distance making people not really realize they are coming into an entirely different world, and then they forget to check their modern expectations at the door. Like how tourists become obnoxious when they come to a foreign country, expecting the foreign country to cater to their whims.

I've once seen someone made an addition on TV Tropes saying WWX is a mass murderer that never got punished for his crime. I... I don't know what to say to that really. My expectation is that the person who wrote that is someone under 30, never left America, and never served in the military. For somebody who has never had this kind of experience, no amount of words will explain to them that for major parts of the world and for the vast majority of mankind's history, you have to be able to kill to survive. In fact, for most of our history, killers are our heroes. War is a reality that we live in. The ones who survive are the ones who win wars, the really accomplished killers.

2/ MDZS was not written for an international audience. That is to say, it's written with the expectation that it doesn't have to explain its intricacies and tropes to its intended readers. Because its readers already know. MDZS is xianxia danmei. Danmei has only had about 2 decades of modern history. But xianxia as a genre has stretched back millennia. Its tropes are very set. Chinese (and Sinosphere) readers don't need an explanation because we grow up consuming this kind of stories.

We don't need to be told in plain words to know WWX's only crime is to be possession of the Yin Tiger Tally, and the Jin's scheme is the real reason behind his tragedy. Because it's such a standard trope in our culture that there are millennia-old proverbs about it.

匹夫无罪，怀璧其罪 - pǐ fū wú zuì，huái bì qí zuì. Lit. The commoner is innocent, but his possession of treasure is a sin.

We don't need to be told that it doesn't matter if WWX goes along with the cultivation world's ceaseless demands (keep Suibian with him, consult more with Jiang Cheng before he does things) to know that none of that matters. Because none of those are actual rules, just trivial bullshit made up and used to socially isolate WWX and manipulate the public opinion against him. WWX's true crime is that he is alone. He is an orphan. No one will stand up for him. And unlike his big mouth, he's a real softie. Because if he wasn't then all of them would be dead ten times over with the kind of martial power WWX possess. Only WWX's good heart holds him back from really using his ability. Therefore, you can spit on him, you can cut him, you can trample on him without fearing retaliations.

Nie Mingjue has no sword. Ain't nobody try to lip him about it. Yu Furen has no sword. She uses a whip. Ain't nobody lip her about it.

WWX's undead cultivation is also not really the problem. That kind of cultivation is vanilla as girl scout's cookies. It's only made out that way because it's a method of cultivation that is very easy to learn and does not require enormous resources (i.e. caste issue, not class, caste) to cultivate. Which means it's a method that can be practiced far and wide by poor commoners. Which means it's an infringement on the cultivator House's power and financial base. That's its real crime. Not all that justice bullshit.

For many international fans out there, MDZS is their introduction to danmei (and xianxia). So they come in not knowing these things. They don't see the caste issues, the tragedy, the difference of philosophies and choices between WWX and JC. Their conclusion is built on ignorance and misunderstanding.

It doesn't help that most know little to nothing about Chinese culture which is a high-context culture, the polar opposite of most Western cultures (low-context culture). Something that may seem small and insignificant for a Western reader base can be a really big deal for the Chinese reader base, because it's inbuilt in five thousand years of history and culture. Like why Jin Guangyao buried his mother's corpse in the Guanyin temple and why he needed to reclaim it and take it with him when he tried to flee to Japan.

So it's no surprise there is such a massive divide in fandom opinion.

#ask sythe #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian

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