someone has been going through my blog and liking hundreds of posts over the last few days and so i've gotten to look back at the real time live blogging of season 8 and all the discourse and theories and i'm sorry it's been 5 years, i'm gonna say it.

we were SO robbed of the kidnapping plot.

obviously ned is pulling rank when wyman figures out in like 8 days that the incest is happening, bc he doesn’t want cersei & the kids to be killed but i bet wyman, whatever umber came with, and dacey mormont are like “so we just turn them over to robert, right?” but when ned is like “let me give cersei a choice” wyman is going NO we are PUTTING her on a boat then we are NOT TELLING HER SHIT. i do think wyman is successful in getting them out of there quietly while ned breaks the news to robert - he did pull off frey pies after all, he’s got some skill even if he’s a lil classless about it. problem here is

ned wants to be like “okay so i’m handing all this over to you and your brothers right, kaye thanks byyyye” but robert is NOT letting him leave, first he’s SCREAMING about letting the cersei & the kids leave, then he’s going to war with tywin IMMEDIATELY, i do NOT imagine ned does shit with jaime so jaime has got to fight his way out or - actually i imagine varys helps him escape for maximum chaos, OR petyr does. but robert is looking for him to MURDER and he wants ned to HELP HIM MURDER.

renly is trying to pimp margaery out to robert and get ned on his side, i do imagine ned wants to be left out of it, altho if he takes this to his groupies, i do imagine they see right through that right away and are like “well how do we feel about the tyrells. since sansa can’t marry joffrey can we maybe get a different match going.”

fuck idek what the timeline is here, but it’s moving fast - someone is still gonna try to kill bran, catelyn’s still likely to come south, but i bet she can get into the city undetected with help from ned’s lil groupies. she’s like “i think someone tried to kill us heres this knife” and he’s like “i bet it’s the fucjing lannisters” IMMEDIATELY, because he knows about the incest already. does it make sense to be like “i need you to go to dragonstone and figure out why the fuck stannis cut and run instead of asking literally anyone for help.” bc it’s been a few weeks so it’s not FOREVER but stannis has been radio silent for a while, let’s tell him i’m gonna arrest the lannisters and it’s safe now. so catelyn goes with rodrik (and probably a few others right, for protection? i mean they’re taking a ship so i imagine a bunch of manderlys, but no way at least one other faction doesn’t get wind of a SECOND boat suspiciously leaving KL. varys & petyr know ned is moving for sure) to check on stannis, then ned gets cersei & the kids put on a boat, tells robert, and gets roped into a war.

catelyn rolls up to a cult situation brewing. i think she dislikes the vibes immediately.

forces start pulling together, jaime is in the wind, tyrion is on the road, tywin is about to have a bad day bc he’s got the riverlands, the north, the stormlands, and the reach all knocking on his door.

fuck bro. escalates from here. robert is ready to fight. cersei is getting to wherever Manderly sent her ready to fucking GO. tywin is throwing everything at the wall. is varys giving jaime to his dad do we think. can robb and jaime have a showdown anyway. the vale is eerily silent. dorne is whistling and looking the other way. do the northerners dislike the tyrell vibes so bad they’re like “what if we got robert a different wife.” ned is begging them to stop saying shit like that to him & just to come to him with decisions made, do we think they’re looking at the freys. is someone smart enough to ask arianne. balon & asha are getting really excited.

catelyn gets back from dragonstone and is like “so stannis has lost his fucking mind.” wyman is like “finally a thinking woman” and showing her portfolios of various potential brides for robert, then slips her a few “mistaken” portraits of his granddaughters with pros like “love the cold weather” “prefer dogs to cats” “wouldn’t mind converting” for robb.

what in the god damn hell is petyr doing.

barristan is probably so bemused by the whole thing. like not disgusted enough to leave but oh boy is he having a chortle over how deeply stupid this whole thing is.

sansa goes into this distrusting the lannisters, with several friends who are Straight Up about what’s happening & a guardian who actually guards. i do imagine she is still quite sullen about this entire stressful & bizarre situation. arya honestly probably doesn’t give a dip. she’s water dancing with syrio. she’s wrestling with dacey and jorelle. she doesn’t have to pretend to be friends with the lannister kids. she’s straight chillin.

"And with him stood the great lords her brother had named the Usurper's dogs, cold-eyed Eddard Stark with his frozen heart, and the golden Lannisters, father and son, so rich, so powerful, so treacherous."- Dany(ACOK II).

"When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent."- Dany(ASOS III).

Dany enemies associated with cold and ice.

Oh shoot, I did not remember that description of Ned!

Understandably, frozen, ice, snow...those words don't show up much for Dany, so when they do they seem suspicious. I know a lot of people read that second quote as her facing off with the Others, and there were other things that did make me think she'd go North, but when you place those quotes together, and we think of how Dany sees herself as Rhaegar, takes on his "last dragon" shtick, and Jon is a variation of Ned (a little darker, a little more of the wolf blood, but there's a lot of him in there in addition to his looks), it does begin to look like Targ v Stark foreshadowing.

Funnily, the only other place I'm seeing "frozen heart" is as a description of Sansa. I gotta say, Sansa as QitN earlier, and Jon and/or Arya taking Dany out to save her/the North, I'd enjoy that! We've even talked about her being Ned's narrative heir. Also, LF's line about “the three queens" always sounded to me like he was planning to make Sansa queen and then have a Cersei, Dany, Sansa showdown which I would have loved.

He did not hold her kiss against her. "You would not believe half of what is happening in King's Landing, sweetling. Cersei stumbles from one idiocy to the next, helped along by her council of the deaf, the dim, and the blind. I always anticipated that she would beggar the realm and destroy herself, but I never expected she would do it quite so fast. It is quite vexing. I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now . . . it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos. What little peace and order the five kings left us will not long survive the three queens, I fear." "Three queens?" She did not understand. Nor did Petyr choose to explain. Instead, he smiled and said, "I have brought my sweet girl back a gift." (AFFC, Alayne II)

There's this whole thing about how Sansa forgets about her own claim, doesn't think people will fight for her etc so it made me think here too, she isn't picking up on her own political importance. Obviously, LF's plans will not work out, but until we get TWOW, I'm gonna imagine this playing out in a way that gives me joy. 🥰

I honestly can't take the 'Sansa stays in the Vale and never comes back North and never sees her family again' metas aka headcanons seriously because it seems a vaaast majority of people who perpetuate this take are Sansa antis who are shaking, crying, and throwing up at the thought of Sansa and Jon being reunited first and potentially working together to take back Winterfell lol. I'm not a J0nsa shipper, I'm a Sansa stan who dislikes Jon so I don't even want that ship to happen, but the absolute seething from Sansa antis at the thought of Jon and Sansa even sharing page space together as totally platonic siblings/cousins/friends or whatever is so, so delicious. Anyway, idk if TWOW will ever even be published so this may all be moot but lmao. They need to worry less about Sansa and more about their faves!

Oh agreed. And it just makes no sense, it's a pointless place for her to end her story. "Robin will die and she'll end up ruling the Eyrie with HH." I'm 98% convinced Harry the Heir is going to die.

"And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt." -Alayne I TWOW

Not looking good for young Harry. After all, the last time Sansa wished for someone to fall during a tourney, they did.

"I hope [Ser Morros] falls and shames himself, she thought bitterly. I hope Ser Balon kills him." -Sansa I ACOK

Of course, Morros isn't killed, but he did fall and shame himself in the process. It's my assumption that this time death will be the result of his injury. On top of all that, Harry's a jerk. So unless he somehow survives, is humbled by his fall, and stops his habit of knocking up ladies and then dumping them just because they can't lose their pregnancy weight fast enough, I don't want him near Sansa. It's ridiculous the amount of gross men she has to put up with.

And as for Robin, I'm very confident he will live. And if that's the case, The Vale will be his. He has plenty of confidants who will be by his side and help him rule. He doesn't need Sansa for that. And based off his current affection for Sansa, she won't need to marry him to gain his alliance or support. Having her remain in The Vale to "control Sweetrobin" would diminish her as another LF or Varys pulling puppet strings on premature, young leaders. That's ooc for her imo. She's not interested in power. In the first book she brags about one day becoming queen, after she is betrothed to Joffrey (I'd brag about it too tbh) but we haven't seen that since. Even when she thinks about her claim to Winterfell, there's no shred of desire to actually rule. It just depresses her because she realizes she's being used and abused for her claim. What she desires most of all is to be loved, and to find someone to love. (But I guess it makes her a bitch for wanting to be with someone she finds attractive and...fucking normal in the head.)

They also argue that she'll be married to Aegon. And that makes little sense to me as well. Sansa goes from being used by Littlefinger to now being used by Varys? What's the point? What can she offer Aegon that would be better than what Arianne is about to offer him? "They'll be sister brides!" Neither one of them would go for that idea.. Sansa actually has a plot in her story, and Aegon doesn't fit into it.

"She's going to be dragged back to KL to have a final showdown with Cersei!" She doesn't need a showdown with Cersei. Sansa doesn't even think about Cersei, and to me that's proof that she has no power over her.

I've also seen theories where both Arya and Sansa are/were on a path of turning into their Aunt Lysa. Apparently Arya has passed the test, but Sansa hasn't. The most bizarre thing I've ever heard tbh. Neither of these girls are, or were ever, in danger of becoming their Aunt Lysa. They share qualities with Ned and Cat. Lysa's journey was very different from these girls'. She became obsessed with the man who loved her sister, her father forced an abortion on her, she was married off to an old man that she didn't want to be with. She was used and groomed by the man she "loved". She raped LF. Are we really going to compare these girls to their Aunt Lysa? Their stories and actions don't match up at all. I'm not sure why this idea is even entertained.

People will come up with anything to keep her away from her own home. Sansa being "less of a Stark" and "less connected to Winterfell" has been a baseless argument for a long time now. Her narrative contradicts those claims. And as for her ending, I think she will end the story in an influential position. It would be cool if she ended as queen regnant, but I don't think it's super likely. I think it's more likely she'll be queen consort, queen regent (if Rickon lives), or the lady of a major house. Personally, I ship her with Willas Tyrell <3. But I don't think that's likely to happen as she'll probably choose to stay in Winterfell by the end of the series.

Hehe, I've actually been feeling very positive with TWOW release lately. I think it's closer than we think. I could be wrong though, and tbf I haven't been waiting an entire decade since I began reading the series very late. For now, I just daydream a happy ending. <3

honestly, the more i think about it the more certain i become that winds of winter and specifically the kings landing plot/vale/gc plot will significantly parallel the dance of the dragons (mainly the end of the dance).

others have already made great metas on this lol

i think cersei’s downfall will resemble alicent’s. im sad but certain that both tommen and myrcella will be killed (maybe paralleling aegon and rhaenys deaths?). i’m kind of hoping the sand snakes will go through character development and not choose revenge… but i kind of doubt it. i’m sure that cersei will definitely break down even further tho. that’ll be interesting and horrifying to read.

tommen will certainly die first, leading to myrcella being crowned. i think it’s likely that tommen is killed by the sand snakes, but i think myrcella will be killed during the fall of kings landing to (f)aegon. i wonder if the sand snakes try protecting her and fail?

i highly doubt that dorne is going to join (f)aegon. i think arianne will see the truth and will be able to successfully maneuver her way back to dorne. (tho i think she’ll have a run in with aurane which would be cool to read). however, (f)aegon will think that arianne is on his side. i’m worried that lady lance wont leave with the dornish party tho…

anyways, after the fall of kings landing cersei will likely be locked up as she won’t be considered a threat. but this won’t be enough to stop the crazy that will be childless cersei.

the high sparrow will certainly support (f)aegon.

i’m 50/50 on whether margaery marries again. i am worried that margaery will get jaehaera’d :/. i think it’s certain that she’ll be held hostage tho. what if she goes the helaena route… yikes… that’s a sad thought.

at this point in time i think the starks will hold winterfell once again and the freys will have be destroyed. the tullys will probably hold the riverlands again.

euron will be causing absolute havoc in the reach.

i think the vale plot in winds will resemble what happens during the dance. harry and robin will both probably die, so i think littlefinger, who’d be in trouble at that point, would try to gain power through sansa. so i think the knights of the vale will make their way to kings landing with sansa with the intent of making her queen.

this is where the tourney at ashford theory comes into play. though jonsas have it completely wrong, as (f)aegon will be the one taking the place of prince valarr. i’m a bit iffy about sansa marrying (f)aegon due to sansa’s marriage to tyrion… but it could be annulled i suppose? but would the high sparrow do that? i think it’s possible.

i wonder what will happen to trystane and the sand snakes tho? i do think that the sand snakes are savvy enough to be able to escape on their own but trystane worries me :(. and he’s gonna be devastated by myrcellas death.

anyways if the plot does move in this direction then i totally expect to read many littlefinger vs varys showdowns.

this will definitely be a false dawn tho. euron will likely be making his way to kings landing and i’m fairly certain that he will sit on the iron throne at some point. bet this is when cersei is able to rise again.

i’ll admit that this prediction for winds has many holes in it. i may be misremembering some stuff as well and i likely haven’t considered all variables either, so take everything i just stated as a vague prediction.

some questions i’m asking myself rn lol: would the tyrell army go down that easily (or maybe varys friends in the reach will help the golden company win the battle?)? will sweet robin really die :(? baelish won’t be able to try and take back the north bc the starks will hold it once again, and going north would mean definitely giving up his hold over sansa… so wouldn’t trying to make sansa the new queen make more sense? since he’d still be able to isolate her and she’d likely need to depend on him? but wouldn’t going to kings landing again be dangerous for him? well if his and varys interests line up then maybe not… but would the knights of the vale follow him? i guess if both harry and robin died then they’d be totally lost too…

~couple questions~

robbcella

3. What's their favorite thing to tease each other about?

8. What do they find physically sexiest about each other?

10. What was their last big fight? What did they learn from it?

24. How did they fall for eachother?

oooh thank you for these asks, it's been a hot minute since I've thought about these babes so this is fun!

3. Robb will always tease Myrcella about her driving. She's so bad at it. Myrcella loves to tease Robb about how far down on the list he is of her favorite Stark sibling.

8. Wow. Um... physically... I think Myrcella has lustful thoughts about his forearms and hands at all times. He finds this deeply amusing and slightly offensive to the rest of his body. Robb would fight you for making him choose. Like it's Ella. He's obsessed with everything about her physically. But uh, gun to his head he's a big fan of her butt. He just think it's neat.

10. Their last big fight was about their wedding. She wants to elope because her family (and yes a little bit his too - she loves Catelyn and Sansa but if she has to witness another showdown between them and Cersei about napkin rings she sweeeears to the gods) is driving her crazy. He does not want to elope, he doesn't give a shit about napkin rings but he does care about them having a formal wedding with their families and friends there. I think they learn from it that Robb really does have more traditional views of what a family is but also how truly unequal they are in terms of fitting into each other's families. Robb almost needs the statement, he needs to not feel like they've slunk off and married in secret because he needs her family to know that it happened, they all saw it, they can't hold that over his head, whereas Myrcella knows that the Starks think of her as family already and so she doesn't feel the need for all of the ceremony.

Because Robb gets his way and they do do the big wedding, their compromise is that he becomes more involved with the planning, acting as a referee between their mothers so that she doesn't have to. Basically she makes him put his money where his mouth is and he's happy to do it and honestly Cersei was right about the napkin holders.

24. he declared he was going to marry her when he was 7 years old, and spent the next ten years of his life pretending that he wasn't serious about it, and the next ten years afterwards convincing her that he was. she always loved him, so as they grew up it wasn't about her falling for him, it was just about that love changing.

Are we going to get the Sansa-Cersei showdown we were robbed of! OMG! These new chapters are so good!

We are going to get something. But I can’t spoil too much ❤️

The Downfall of Game of Thrones and Why cont.

So why did it come to this? One of the theories that seems to be what makes the most sense is the need to force representation in this final season. The writers felt as if they needed to make some groups be the heroes or protagonists of the story but what they did not account for was that by doing this it would bring other characters in the show down and hurt the story. In the first example Jon Snows real identity seems to be ignored and not play a part in the story because they still want Daenerys to be one of the female protagonists however they failed to realize that she would’ve still been one of them if they incorporated this piece of information correctly. In the second example Tyrion goes from being the smart and clever dwarf to being dumb and useless as when he’s down in the crypts he hides with Sansa who has a blade of dragon glass that could be used but is just not, and Tyrion who has had battle experience before does not think to use the dragon glass either and instead just hides while the people in the crypts get murdered.

In the third example, Jon Snow is denied his big fight, the one that the audience has been waiting for since the first episode of the show so that Arya can be the protagonist of this battle when she had never had any connection to the White Walkers or Night King before season 8. A good analogy is if during Infinity War, The Wasp came out of nowhere and killed Thanos before Thanos could show any of the stones or fight the avengers. This once again seems to be done to give another female character a main role, which is fine if done correctly like Cersei but Arya being thrown into this scene makes it look like a parody almost. In the fourth example, we have another example of bringing one character down to lift another up and in this case we have once again Tyrion having his status and influence lowered and tossed to the side which defeats the purpose of being the Hand to Daenerys and his character arc of redemption.

In the fifth example, we see one of the main characters be ruined in a single episode as Daenerys goes against everything that she stood for, the reason behind this decision seems to be that the writers wanted Daenerys and Cersei to have their showdown and also have Daenerys once again ignore the deal with Tyrion showing that she can be empowered and make her own decisions to be the main focus of the finale while Jon Snow waits on the sidelines, however they could not have chosen a worse character to do this with as it gives viewers a feeling of having wasted 7 seasons of TV because it ruins everything that had been established in those seasons.

In the sixth example, Brandon Stark being made King can be argued that it was done to show inclusion and representation to the disabled community, however this is done without understanding his character as earlier in the series he explains why he could never rule and at the end he says “why do you think I came all this way” showing that it was his plan all along but he had contradicted himself several times earlier in the series and throughout the season.

In the final example, sending Jon Snow back to the Nights Watch shows how the writers of the show did not understand the purpose of the Nights Watch but also at the same time can show that they wanted to undermine his influence and importance in this final season to the point that his finale just ends with him doing what he started with to push him to the side so that Brandon Stark can be named King. 

Me reading my posts about Kidnap!plot/Alys Karstark

.... I'm just going to say it .... Bronn stayed in the North ... the northmen army left with Jon ... Arya and Ghost are gone ... Brienne isn't at the top of her game ... which means that Sansa and Bran are practically left without protection... hum 🤔 ...

my only two moods during GOT season 8

Writing Worlds: Multiple POV

I’ve talked before on the merits of a shifting pov in my last POV post, but I wanted to go on a bit further about the topic. Broadly speaking, multiple POV works best when a single character cannot possibly know everything happening in the story, the world and story is too large for one single character to care about everything, or you want the readers or viewers to be personally invested in a complex narrative of interwoven stories.

Interwoven Narratives

In shows like Game of Thrones, Once Upon a Time, or the 2nd season of Why Women Kill, there may be a central narrative, but each character for the most part has their own story. In an interwoven narrative, each character is going to have their own arc and story. Each story is going to have its own call to adventure, darkest hour, rising action, etc. Depending on how closely interwoven these stories are, a single story’s climax can very well be the climax of multiple storylines within the narrative. You can even spice this up, where the Point of No Return for story A is simultaneously the Call to Adventure for Story B. In an interwoven narrative, several stories may be ongoing, but certain characters will rarely if ever interact. This is why it feels uncanny for Missandei to sit in the same room as Sansa Stark. Their narratives have been so disjointed that seeing them together feels odd, even though they are from the same show and have appeared separately in other episodes. Game of Thrones takes this a step further by having 3 major overarching narratives: King’s Landing, the Knight’s Watchmen, and Essos. Objectively speaking, there is a protagonist and something of an antagonist in each setting. King’s Landing has Ned Stark, later Tyrion and then arguably either Brienn or Jaime, with Cersei as the big bad. The Night’s Watchmen has Jon, with the Night King as the big bad. Essos has Daenerys, though she doesn’t really have a singular antagonist the way the other two do. Her antagonist is Essos itself. Essos is like her training area. The tutorial on how to rule before she stops playing in the sandbox to go get the real thing over in Westeros. Her hurdles, such as the slave masters, the dothraki warlords, and the many assassins all prove to place various kinds of obstacles in her way that she would need to face as a queen. These stories work best in drama with large casts of complex characters with complicated relationships and competing desires. Game of Thrones wouldn’t work if Ned or Daenerys was the sole protagonist because limiting the scope to a single protagnist would rob the story of what’s happening elsewhere in the world, and hearing events second-hand as gossip and rumors isn’t as fun as seeing it. George could have given the story an ominsicent narrator who could see everything (such as the Three-Eyed Raven), but this would place a barrier between the audience and the action, as events would feel less personal and in-the-moment. Shifting POV was the best choice for this story because the world and cast is too big for any one narrator to suffice, and because the civil war of shifting alliances is a perfect fit for different characters giving the audience their personal insights into the ongoing events of the story.

Parallel Narratives

Similar to, but distinct from the the Interwoven Narrative, the Parallel Narrative is a story where there is only a few POV characters, most likely just two, although it is possible to do more than two. Shows like Avatar: The Last Aribender, She-Ra: and the Princesses of Power, and Xiaolin Showdown take the time to give the villain faction screen time, allowing the characters to have their own stories, arcs, and characters. Some shows may show what the villains are up to, but checking in on the villains is different from giving them large swaths of the narrative. These stories are best with complex or otherwise entertaining villains. In Xiaolin Showdown, most of the villains fall under the Saturday Morning Cartoon variety, with only Wuya and Chase being actually interesting. But all of the villains are rather charming, enough that stopping by to see what Jack Spicer, Evil Boy Genius is up to in his mother’s basement is entertaining, if nothing else. Xiaolin Showdown doesn’t showcase the villains as heavily as ATLA and SatPoP do, but I felt the Haylin forces get enough focus to warrant counting them on this list. Meanwhile, Zuko and Iroh from Avatar get the same level of devotion as the Gaang does, as do Catra, Scorpia, and Hordak in She-Ra. Zuko is a narrative foil to Aang, making him the Deuteragonist. Catra serves a similar role, being the foil to Adora. Aang and Zuko are on parallel journeys. In a sense, both are seeking redemption for past mistakes. Zuko believes he must regain his honor for disgracing his father, while Aang feels guilty and responsible for “abandoning” the world for 100 years, and not being around sooner to put a stop to the Hundred Years War. Catra and Adora foil off one another as both respond to emotional and mental abuse from Shadowweaver. Adora had it drilled into her from a young age that she is responsible for what Catra does, meaning that she thinks she has to be responsible for everyone and everything. Meanwhile, Catra has grown up with Adora always being responsible for her actions and has no idea how to take accountability because if she messes up, it’s Adora’s fault. Parallel narratives are perfect for creating a juxtaposition between conflicting sides, ideologies, or other dynamics. Showing how these sides differs is what makes them interesting. They don’t have to be Hero/Villain. Romeo and Juliet is a prime example. We get insights into both the Montagues and the Capulets, and neither side is inherently painted as the good side or the bad side.

Ensemble Narrative

In an ensemble narrative, there may be multiple POV characters, but they are all united in a single story. They may have their own arcs and goals, but going from a chapter or episode focused on Character A to one focused on character B will still be advancing the overarching narrative instead of being disjointed. Heroes of Olympus shifts between narrators, but the overarching goal of stopping Gaea is the collective goal of the entire team. In TV shows, this manifests in what I would call The Team shows, where there is no central main character, but each major character gets their own arc or episodes dedicated to them. Teen Titans, Avatar: the Last Airbender, and Voltron: Legendary Defender are shows where there may be a “Cyborg Episode” or a “Raven Episode”, but the show is about all five of the Titans, and each gets their own turn in the spotlight with the story focused on them. Unlike other multiple POV stories, you can switch up the focus character without disrupting the flow of the story, and allow each character to feel more important. The cast doesn’t have to be together for the full story to work either. For the first two books, the Heroes of Olympus has two sets of heores, with Jason, Piper, and Leo in book 1, then Percy, Hazel, and Frank in book 2. Percy and Annabeth also get separated from the rest of the party when they fall into Tartarus, leaving those two to have their own disconnected storyline. Likewise, Keith spends time with the Blade of Marmora away from Team Voltron, and Zuko goes on life-changing field trips with Sokka and Katara in book 3 of Avatar. The Teen Titans spend most of season 5 separated or in smaller groups, and Beast Boy is left all alone for most of the finale, having to scrounge up a ragtag team of minor super heroes and old allies to bring down the Brain and his legion of doom. An Ensemble Narrative is best when you have a collective of equally interesting heroes all working together toward a common goal, and especially in television leans toward being an episodic format with an overarching plot, rather than a highly serialized plot. A serialized plot leaves too little time for character-driven episodes where each team member gets a moment to shine and be the central character for that episode, though some shows like Once Upon a Time accomplish similar things, where one episode will be about Snow White, and then the next might be about Belle and Rumpelstiltskin or Little Red Riding Hood. It’s definitely more serialized than the cartoons I listed, but it will still take a given episode to put the spotlight on a particular character or a particular storyline. Some characters, like Aurora or Snow White, get full season-long arcs, while characters like Cinderella and Ariel get an episode to their stories, making Once Upon a Time a rather interesting mix of Ensemble and Interwoven.

Fractured Narratives

Stories like Once Upon a Time and the 1st season of Why Women Kill use utterly disconnected multiple POV stories to tell completely isolated stories that follow a theme, or connect back to one another in poignant ways. Why Women Kills uses its first season to tell 3 disjointed stories of affairs and relationship drama, all tied together by a single house, even connecting the stories in one episode by showing a neighbor who saw all three murders in the house, from the time he was a little boy in the 60s to being an old man in the 2010s. Aside from this one neighbor and the house itself, there is no connection between any of the stories. Once Upon a Time uses a different approach, splitting the story between the current events in Storybrooke, Maine, contrasted by the backstory events in The Enchanted Forest. Many of the backstory scenes are used to give context clues or flesh out motivations, and are mirrored and repeated in the mundane world. The backstory elements are also not told in chronological order, freeing up the writers to add as much convoluted backstory as their hearts desired. In the second season, Mary Margaret and Emma get sent to the Enchanted Forest, and this creates a story where Mary Margaret and Emma have their own side plot, but functionally the story still only has two fractured halves, because the past events of the Enchanted Forest don’t ever connect with ongiong plotpoints in the Storybrooke timeline. Emma and Mary Margaret may be in the Enchanted Forest, but they are still firmly in the Storybrooke timeline. The Enchanted Forest Timeline is still in Mary Margaret and Emma’s past. In both of these stories, the fractured multiple POV is used to tell a story across a wide stretch of time, separating the past and present, while highlighting recurring themes, motifs, symbols, and imagery as they repeat again and again. These stories excel when history repeating itself or destiny being impossible to escape is a recurring theme. Movies like Titanic are similar to this, but fail to properly become a Fractured Narrative because even though there is a story set in two different time periods with different characters, the ones in the modern setting aren’t developed enough to have similar arcs to the characters in the backstory, or to play out similar events to those found in the backstory. It’s a wonderful movie, and I will fight to get Rose DeWitt Bukater recognized as an action heroine, but the characters in the modern day timeline don’t get enough time to shine to really say that the story is split evenly between two parallel stories with recurring themes or ideas. It’s a story set in the past with a modern day framing device.

Patchwork Narratives

This is what happens when you combine the Fractured Narrative with the Interwoven Narrative. Cloud Atlas is the only example of this that I know off the top of my head, as each story is its own self-contained narrative, but then, certain stories will overlap as well. The narrative of Sonmi ends up connecting to the postapocalyptic story as the speech she gives from her part of the story ended up becoming the holy doctrine of this new society in which she has become a goddess. There’s also an ongoing motif of a birthmark that resembles a shooting star or comet. In a patchwork narrative, context for one story is found in another disjointed part of the story, where all of the parts come together to tie everything together, making a story of sewn-together components that, together, tell one whole story. Like with the Interwoven stories, this is better for grandiose ideas and large casts, and like with a Fractured narrative, it allows the story to jump across time and space to put emphasis on themes, motifs, and symbols. Because I can only really name one story I know that does this story structure (and quite well I might add), I can’t really highlight any further advice on how to construct such a narrative, except to tell you to pop in Cloud Atlas, turn on subtitles to understand the post-apocalyptic part of the story, and take notes.

Hopefully, after looking at a few examples of multiple POVs and the ways they’re used, this can give you a better sense of how you want to structure your own stories, what you should aim to do with the story, or reference materials for you to check out if you want to learn a certain storytelling style. There is no one single perfect point of view, but I like to think the shifting POV to be one of the most challenging and interesting when done correctly.

Mistakes I see characters make when writers want a showdown between a heroic and a manipulative character:

"I'm onto you, you creep/I know the truth now!!" Seriously, if you deeply mistrust someone, don't tell them. Best case scenario: you're wrong and they're now deeply offended. Worst case scenario: You're right and you've now made yourself a target. It's much easier to act against you if they can drop the façade, anyway, should their intentions indeed be bad. Just quietly check your assumptions, and if you're right take the appropriate steps. Don't confront people without backup in righteous anger, Ned Stark, Jesus. Sansa was right never to seek out a showdown with Cersei. Rapunzel should have not confronted Mother Gothel with the truth. Just wait till she leaves and skip town. And uh, if you think your boyfriend may have killed someone - don't confront him when you're alone, goodness me.

Get caught redhanded snooping around someone's personal belongings. Seriously. If someone texts you: "Be there in 5!" this is not a great time to go through their things. I don't think anyone should go through anyone's things without backup. Even Bluebeard's wife was smart enough to wait till her husband was both truly gone and unlikely to return for weeks. I mean tough luck for not getting the bloodstain off the magic key but that's force majeure.

This is what I like about the German legend Krabat so much. In a duel between an evil wizard and his enslaved apprentice, neither party lets on until the final challenge, a challenge both parties anticipated (there's no "You saw through me! How could that be!") but neither could be certain would ever actually be voiced. Does the apprentice want to join or overthrow the Master, after all? Does the Master want to groom the apprentice or kill him? Nobody's sure. And when things come to a head anyway both parties have made contingency plans. And I was still biting my nails, maybe even moreso because they were evenly matched.

Maybe more characters should be like evil East German wizards.

Cersei send her man to kill Jon at the wall. But Jon died in the mutiny not by cersei and going to resurrected. Cersei wanted to kill Sansa but she will likely to reach north safely and Cersei didn't have skin of Lady. Similarly Cersei wanted to kill Arya in agot but she and her wolf are alive. Jaime tried to killed Bran for Cersei but he is alive. It seems like Starks alive in the North and thriving is enough to defeat Cersei as she failed to kill them.

When you put it that way, Cersei is a little eager for Stark deaths! I’m assuming this is in response to this ask and the follow up, and I accept that that’s likely the end of Cersei and Sansa (any/all Stark) interaction. But, to bang on my same dented drum, I would have preferred a Sansa v Cersei showdown rather than a Sansa v Tyrion one. 

I think that’s because Cersei is Sansa’s villain, whereas, as much as Martin says Tyrion is a villain as well, I think he sympathizes with him a lot and intends for the reader to sympathize way more than I do. Tyrion decides to marry Sansa to take control of Winterfell/the North in the same scene that he’s being told he will never inherit his father’s castle, so maybe the author is pointing out Tyrion’s hypocrisy there...but I just get this feeling he isn’t nearly as disgusted with Tyrion as we all are. So much emphasis is put on how Tywin is wronging Tyrion, how conniving he is, that it almost feels like Tyrion’s cooperation is...brushed aside? Maybe that reaction is primarily because of the fandom’s tendency to absolve him. Anyway, he knows the plan, and while he decides not to rape her to get the needed child/consummate, his anger and frustration with Sansa not wanting him is so off-putting to me because he uses what the Lannisters have done to her as a reason why she wouldn’t want him, he doesn’t recognize marrying her against her will as a wrong against her too. 

Joffrey was evil, Sansa didn’t knowingly help kill him, Cersei’s quest for vengeance isn’t one the author expects me to sympathize with. Tyrion’s feelings about Sansa on the other hand...I do think he has some expectation for the reader there than I just can’t meet. This for example:

He made certain not to look at Sansa, lest his bitterness show in his eyes. You might have knelt, damn you. Would it have been so bloody hard to bend those stiff Stark knees of yours and let me keep a little dignity? (ASOS, Tyrion VIII)

There’s something about this in contrast to the way he wrote Sansa’s reaction during the ceremony that makes me feel like...the author isn’t immune to  Tyrion’s perspective. But maybe most of my feelings regarding this were shaped by the fandom and it would hit me differently if I could separate it all.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What do you think of the Cersei and Sansa interactions in the books vs the show?

What do you expect of Daenerys and Sansa in the books?

Cersei's and Sansa's interactions in the show were far, far more intriguing than they were in the books, imo. Part of that is because Lena and Sophie brought such a tangible, twisted dynamic to the characters that is absent in the books because grrm has trouble writing from a woman's perspective...writing about consent...writing about what is vs IS NOT pedophilia...there's just Issues Everywhere. Anyway.

The basis of their relationship in the books and the show is abusive - Cersei is fashioned in both as the wicked "stepmother" who envies and hates and pities her prospective daughter-in-law and then finally sister-in-law.

There is an odd thing about their relationship - she hates Margaery Tyrell but that's it. She makes snide remarks, threatens her, etc. Her relationship and the way she treated Sansa is unique. She never treats anyone quite the same - protective to the point of smothering and even offering crude, awful advice, but advice Cersei herself has lived by in her violently abusive marriage.

I wouldn't call it like or love or even care by any means, but pity spawned from 2 things imo: 1. Sansa's natural charm that draws people to her (for good or ill, it has at least somewhat protected her in dire situations) 2. She in some way reminds Cersei of what she is not, and never had been (as we are given the story that she was always awful and born evil even though I'd argue it was stemmed from Tywin trying to groom his children to be his sort of Lannister) - and that makes Sansa like Myrcella; sweet and charming and good, she even makes note of this in the show "You're just perfect, aren't you?" It didn't read as disgust to me, but it was certainly disdainful and brings about to the only girl she has a positive opinion of; her flesh and blood daughter.

It must be uncomfortable to come to even a subconscious realization that this girl, this child, you find yourself envying by virtue of being "a perfect lady" is similar to your own daughter who you love dearly. In part, I read their interactions as part envy and part discomfort and rage at that discomfort (and small, small moments of guilt that were hidden beneath more meanness) on Cersei's part.

As for Sansa, Cersei functioned as a role model and then there was a fall from grace, but Cersei was still the only "Mother" figure in Sansa's life. Confusing, jarring - she is kind of all Sansa has insofar as an older, "motherly" figure because even Septa Mordane is absent now. Both of them present a confusing dual role to each other. Beyond Cersei thinking Sansa had something to do with Joffrey's death, it is personal on a whole other level to her because in her mind, she could've been much worse and how dare this child turn on her when she had thought of her as "her own" (and remember Myrcella is already gone, and there's a special spot that Sansa didn't fill or replace, but I think it comforted Cersei a bit to have control over this other daughter, and no one could send her away/take her). Their interactions in the books have the wicked stepmother/stepdaughter vibes we find in fairytales, and Lena and Sophie leaned into them, complicated their relationship, and made them more dynamic. Cersei wasn't a "role model" for Sansa, but she played a very important role in her life as her warden - she presents and will continue to present a cautionary tale for Sansa to observe and learn from.

I doubt Dany and Sansa will even meet because I don't think Dany goes north and if Sansa goes south it'll be after what happens to KL...happens. What Dany will know of Sansa will come from Tyrion. What Sansa will know of Dany are rumors, perhaps more from word abroad in the cities Dany conquered, from other lords, etc - but Sansa will probably point to her as a conqueror due to her past.

We're not gonna see some weird showdown and poorly written dialogue with a great song in the background to try to make us forget. We're gonna see long distance politicking, and we'll see Sansa come into her own and play to her strengths. But Dany and Sansa aren't setup to meet, or be enemies or cat fight - Dany's battleground lays in the south. Sansa's is in the north.

@crucifere it's cool, I'm aware I'm in the minority and I appreciate you weighing in! I just think the argument in favor of Daenerys, Righteous Queen of Westeros is less compelling than the argument for her reign — or any reign predicated on divine right, really — inevitably devolving into tyranny. So much of GoT is a critique of the systems of power and the delusions that power engenders. The idea that Dany could reasonably begin dismantling that system by actively participating in its most central construct (i.e., those pesky genes and bloodlines) seems antithetical to everything the show has heretofore attempted to challenge. There's a reason Varys and Tyrion are briefly seduced by the fantasy of Jon and Dany ruling side by side, and why that premise is ultimately rejected. You don't break the wheel by deciding to roll it in a different direction. Eventually, it's going to hit something!

In other words, my takeaway isn't "women be crazy" or "Targaryens be crazy." It's, "Of course Daenerys wasn't the fuckin' exception!" I'm sure that development would have hit different if the rest of the show had a poor track record with female characters, but nothing else in the HBO GoT universe could be meaningfully construed as an argument that women are emotionally unfit to rule. (If anything, Jon's the sentimental dummy who can't stop getting tripped up by his feelings!) Sansa, Yara, Margaery, Lady Olenna, and even Cersei are all fantastic examples of powerful women whose instincts, intelligence, and political savvy make them vastly, demonstrably more competent than their blundering male counterparts. (Robert Baratheon is a drunken, uninterested oaf, Robb Stark is an idealistic fool, Stannis falls in with a cult, Joffrey is both an idiot and a sociopath, Tommen is meek and easily manipulated, the list goes on.)

As for the Night King stuff: fair enough. I guess I just care way, way more about whether the aftermath was handled appropriately than whether the fight was too easy or over too quickly or didn't make its way down to King's Landing (Cersei weaseling her way out of a showdown with oblivion is kind of appropriate; her world begins and ends with Jaime and her children, and that myopia winds up being her undoing anyway). Sudden, dispiriting, and even anticlimactic ends to things are very much a part of the GoT toolkit, and it's one of the series' most interesting and truly subversive storytelling choices when deployed appropriately. I'm certainly sympathetic to the perspective that The Long Night does not qualify as such. But I think they could have sold it just fine if they had the characters... you know... talk about it more! If there were other, deeper repercussions rather than the Battle of Winterfell being a convenient plot device to even the odds. Which was kind of what it amounted to!