#so like it's crazy to me that people hate zutara so much for this | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

wolfjackle-creates · 6 months

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20 questions for writers, tagged by @gremlin-bot

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

87,995 (What the hell? I thought it was, like, half that 🤯) [This will increase dramatically once I get a few more things transferred from tumblr to AO3]

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Right now, it's mostly dpxdc. I'm trying to break into more solo DC and DP stuff. I also have a few works for Good Omens that I'm not ready to abandon.

4. What are your top 5 fics by Kudos?

The Nurse's Demands

Electricity

Remember, Remember

Want to Hold on and Feel I Belong

Answer My Call

5. Do you respond to comments? Why/why not?

Yes! I'm in fandom to make friends and have fun. I made one of my best fandom friends through AO3 comments. Besides, talking about things I've made and my thoughts behind them is fun. ^.^

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

On AO3? Probably Carry On. It's a Good Omens two shot that more-or-less starts with Abel's death. It then follows Crowley and Cain as they experience exile together. But I don't really do sad endings, so it ends with Cain finding a degree of peace, even if Abel is still dead.

In general? Never shared, but it's another Good Omens story. A sequel to the above. I wrote 3 fics/chapters that explore a Fallen Raphael!Crowley coming to terms with the fact that he can't heal. So in the 2nd installment, he gets close to some humans and when one is severely injured, he fails to heal them and they die. I won't share more than that, but I literally can't read that fic without crying and I wrote it. (The fourth and fifth part of the series are him wresting the ability to heal back from the binds that were placed on it, so even those have a happy ending in a way. The people who died remain dead, though, so I think it still counts.)

7. What is the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

Considering none of my dpxdc longfics are finished yet, I'm gonna go with another Good Omens fic, The Demon Piper. This is based off the story of the Pied Piper, obviously. Hamelin, Germany is experiencing a famine due to rats getting into the winter stores. The adults are desperate and many are considering selling their kids to indentured servitude or worse. So the kids and Crowley make a pact to run away together. They they go off and set up their own little settlement in the mountains and everyone lives and it's super sweet. I have a few sequels I need to post that get even fluffier.

8. Do you get hate on fics?

Haven't yet! Y'all are the best <3

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

My third Good Omens fic! An Evening In! It's an 18k PWP with Soft Dom Aziraphale and Service Bottom Crowley, human AU. Really, it's just two men who love each other very much. It's so soft and self indulgent, even if they do explore some kink dynamics.

10. Do you write crossovers? What's the craziest one?

DPxDC is my first time in a crossover fandom. It's been a blast! IDK if it counts as crazy, though.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not to my knowledge

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Nope. Wouldn't that be the biggest flattery, though.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic?

No. I don't think my writing style lends itself to co-writing. I'm very particular about how things get phrased and I'm a plotter and most of my planning happens mentally while driving or at work or something.

14. What's your all-time fav ship?

Oh, I don't have one! I have a fav ship in certain fandoms, though. I was in the Sherlock fandom for a while, so Johnlock obviously. For Be More Chill (the musical) it's Michael/Jeremy. For Good Omens it's Crowley/Aziraphale. For Avatar it's Zutara. Newsies has Jack/David. For DC only fics, I'm an avid Tim/Kon shipper or Core Four. But for DPxDC I'm a multishipper. I was also a multishipper when in the MCU fandom (though Steve/Tony became a nOTP for me and was never a favorite even before Age of Ultron).

15. What's a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

Oh, damn. It's hard to say. I plotted out a whole Good Omens Parent Trap Fusion. (Aka take the plot of the Parent Trap and fit in the characters from Good Omens.) I hate to call it abandoned since I would like to go back to it. But time...

16. What are your writing strengths?

I think I do panic attacks and emotional breakdowns very well. I'm also proud of how I can weave a complex plot into a coherent story which will hopefully come out once I get further along in some of my long fics (particularly Answer My Call and I'll Carry Your Heart (Until I Find You Again)).

17. Writing weaknesses?

I don't think I'm very good at making sure all my characters have distinct voices. I've gotten way better at that this past year, but I'm still working on it. I'm also too much of a perfectionist which makes me slow. And I jump around ideas too much which makes it harder to finish projects.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages?

I will never do it. Way I see it, if the POV character understands what is being said, the reader should understand, too. Which means it needs to be written in English (the only language I can guarantee the reader of an English story can understand). If the POV character can't understand what is being said, neither should the reader. If it's omniscient POV, I will put it in English if I want the reader to have that information and leave it out if I don't. Not give some readers extra information that others don't get.

19. The first fandom you wrote for.

Naruto. I wrote it by hand in class on lined notebook paper and passed it over to my best friend. She, in turn, gave me drawings of my favorite characters.

20. Fav fic you've ever written?

God, I have no idea. I love so many of my works and each one represents something. The Demon Piper is the fic that got me back into writing at all so that's super special to me. Bring Me Home is the one that got me writing for the DPxDC fandom. An Evening In was my first attempt at smut and I am so happy with how it turned out (never thought I could do it). I'll Carry Your Heart (Until I Find You Again) has a premise I'm absolutely in love with and I have so many plans for it. Want to Hold on and Feel I Belong is proof of how much I love emotional breakdowns and I love how much of a punch it packs. Remember, Remember is my first time writing an introspective piece that covers a long time period and I think it works really well.

No, I don't have a favorite work. No way I could pick between them all.

Tagging: @greensword101, @isalisewrites, @britcision and anyone else who wants to do this!

#my writing #my rambles #tag game #thanks for the tag!#this was fun

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ziracona · 2 years

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I used to be way more of a doormat and appeasing because I was raised to be polite, but after enough people taking advantage of that, by college I was like “I’m really done wasting my time enabling horrible behavior. Look, bud, you now get the same level of thoughtfulness/tact/politeness as you give—ima mirror whatever approach you come at me with, because I don’t have the energy to put 110% into a relationship while you give 40 anymore” and it’s so funny that like without fail the kind of people you’ll show your favorite movie to super excited who will then go “Eh I didn’t really like it it was kinda boring” or be even worse instead of like, saying nothing, or finding a polite thing to say, are sooo shocked when you just honestly tell them what you think of stuff they share back.

Like it’s almost uproariously funny. One dude was like “I’m gonna make fun of you & your taste & fave game for reccing it to me since you liked it so much yourself, bc while I haven’t even touched this video game personally, I watched a game sins video on it one time, so I have a PHD in knowing it has no redeeming qualities,” and then was just offended out of his head at how hurtful I was for when he wanted me to watch a show he liked and I was like “Thanks for thinking of me, but I know the MC from the show this is a spinoff of, and find her impossibly obnoxious, and I just don’t think the story would be worth it to me,” like just couldn’t believe I’d be so tactless. Nother dude did the exact same thing, & then was so offended I didn’t pretend to not hate a ship in a mutual fandom whenever he kept bringing it up over and over despite already knowing I both hated, and didn’t want to talk about it. Knew a chick who would tell me she didn’t like things I brought up all the time, or thought my comments were stupid, but then was so offended any time I like, mentioned how much I was relieved a character from a game we both played that she liked & I hated, finally died & left the story.

Like without fail, that kind of person is always /so/ shocked, and /so/ offended if someone treats them even a less mean version fo the way they treat everyone they talk to. Occasionally after I start doing this bc the subtle kindness approach didn’t work, a person will go “Wow I’ve been kind of an ass huh?” & improve but 9 times out of 10 it’s just Comedy Central with them failing to see any kind of double standard but lost in the way I’m not Yes Maning them into next year like the idealized npc version of me in their head. But anyway this is on my mind not even because of that all too common (esp in Avid befriending-many-people-&-jumping-fro-1-to-the-next fandom spaces) shitass personality Load Out, but because whenever I do have nicer people I interact w in such circles, which happens not like, infrequently, but way less frequent than the ones who suck, sadly, it’s unimaginably funny to me in the opposite direction—like I’ll just be there talking to them nicely about something I can’t stand — not lying or anything just like, yeah I don’t mind listening to you talk about this movie I hate, bc I like you, and I have no need to tell you how I feel about the movie—you didn’t ask. You just wanna infodump. & I got no problem w that—I like hearing you talk, & you don’t feel a need to cut down & preach at everything I ever say, so we actually got something good here back and forth. But inside my head against the backdrop of how many mediocre to shitty people I’ve known recently I just am like “Baby girl, I have things in my loadout for you & only you that you can’t even imagine.”

#it’s funny but in a good way. it’s nice to have people who make you put the shotgun back in the closet and take out the snack case instead #(I know it’s easy to get paranoid online even tho I don’t interact much w a lot do you but if you’re worried I don’t vent about people who #are gonna see it in the space they’d—u know—see it. I vent about tumblr stuff irl to friends usually. this ain’t about u dw this is about me #talking to someone earlier & having a blast)#(bc they are one of the good ones & it’s so funny how night & day interactions w humans can be)#(one of my favorite ppl who shares a job w me is like this like girl has such different taste we like opposite things on a crazy level #but she’s so nice & chill I never gaf)#(shoutout to Erin. who was like this in college 💙)#(this is about a friend talking to me about Zutara for so long while I’m like :) I hate that ship but baby for you I’m just gonna enjoy the #enthusiasm — for you I’m true neutral today please-continue)#anyway don’t keep being a doormat for people—it’s actually way better if you’re frank because it speed weeds out people who aren’t going to #improve or be good to you anyway & you deserve better than being the Mean Girl’s follower to some asshat with 0 perspective for what it’s #like to be someone else #& it’ll make the good ones even /more/ fun to be around /more/ deeply appreciated in your heart #you become a different kind of aware once you shift from ‘this is bad but I’ll take it’ to ‘I’m not gonna put up with this anymore’. it make #the experiences quite different #Had a NB friend be like ‘:(( I’m lonely can I watch whatever you’re watching w you?’ & I was like ‘Sure. Here’s the context—it’s my #childhood fave show I rewatch sometimes for comfort and nostalgia. : )’ & they spent the next 20 minutes trying to find things #about it to call problematic till I kicked them off the call & later were so surprised I didn’t humor them #wanting to explain all their kinks to me. Ppl fkn wild bro. & we don’t gotta take it. Good ones exist too.

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kemakoshume · 2 years

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ok i’m gonna bite the bullet and say it… i lowkey really like erehisu as a ship. I KNOW I KNOW, wah wah wah “what about ymir and mikasa?” well, here’s a crazy thought… none of this is real. you can like multiple different ships for the same person and it not be because you dislike anybody. i don’t ship eremika but i don’t hate mikasa or anything.

anyway, it’s insane seeing the hate that the erehisu ship gets. like, jfc. a lot of the discourse around it also really borderlines on being biphobic and that gives me the ick. coming from a pansexual, dating a woman then dating a man as a bi person doesn’t make you straight, and it doesn’t take away anything from the wlw relationship you had. so it’s really weird seeing people insinuating that you must hate lesbians or hate ymir & that you’re weird for wanting to see Historia in a “straight” ship after ymir *beeeeeeps* yunno? idk. i don’t like that.

also, while i’m sharing my ship opinions no one asked for & that i literally never feel like sharing… i like kataang but zutara being canon would’ve made so much sense (see: this youtube video essay about it). also, it would’ve been cute as hell. there, i said it. it’s all out there.

that’s it for my ship ramblings, feel free to chime in.

#erehisu #anti eremika #just to be safe #cause i know how u girls like to tussle #tw discourse #i guess lmao

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tiny-katara · 2 years

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here are the rest of the 16 songs!!! i literally spent so much time doing this and some may say it is a waste of time but someone had to do it and do here ya go! again, @coneyluke inspired the whole train of taylor and @burst-of-iridescent made me wanna do it all over again haha.

part 1 | part 2 | part 3

The Way I Loved You

"He is sensible and so incredible/And all my single friends are jealous/He says everything I need to hear/And it's like I couldn't ask for anything better/He opens up my door and I get into his car/And he says, 'You look beautiful tonight'/And I feel perfectly fine"

i know a lot of people view this as a song about a toxic relationship and that's totally valid, but to me it's about actually feeling something and i think it works well for zutara. a*ng should be enough for katara-- she couldn't ask for anything better he's the avatar! but katara is just going through the motions.

"But I miss screaming and fighting and kissing in the rain/And it's 2:00 a.m. and I'm cursing your name/So in love that you act insane/And that's the way I loved you/Breakin' down and coming undone/It's a roller coaster kinda rush/And I never knew I could feel that much/And that's the way I loved you"

this first two lines have angry western air temple crush katara energy. she definitely was up at night cursing zuko for being pretty or whatever. and uhmm... acting insane works bc like jumping in front of lightning is pretty crazy and then forgetting about the person who shot the lightning is also pretty wild. breakin down is the catacombs and that moment we all know happened after katara confronted yon rha in "the southern raiders" where zuko was just suddenly comforting her when her adrenaline wore off. it just wasn't ever really hate that katara felt for zuko and it was just so strong and she didn't know it could be like that.

"He can't see the smile I'm faking/And my heart's not breaking/'Cause I'm not feeling anything at all/And you were wild and crazy/Just so frustrating, intoxicating, complicated/Got away by some mistake"

i love a*ng but he isn't exactly the most observant when it comes to katara's feelings lol. anyways, katara feels awful bc she's thinking that she should be upset that she isn't in love with a*ng but she just doesn't and that's even worse. she just can't stop comparing it to how much she felt around/for zuko and it's driving her crazy and she just wants it back and she lost it bc she just ignored it and went along with the flow, what she was "supposed" to do. katara didn't ever truly want to be the avatar's girl but she did it bc it was the expectation and she just regrets it.

Back to December

"Your guard is up and I know why"

oooo we got ourselves more western air temple zutara.

"Because the last time you saw me/Is still burned in the back of your mind"

The crystal catacombs are burned into the back or katara's mind and its why she can't trust zuko and also its burned and our boy zuko is a firebender like what else do you want me to say about?

"So this is me swallowin' my pride/Standin' in front of you sayin' I'm sorry for that night/And I go back to December all the time/It turns out freedom ain't nothin' but missin' you/Wishin' I'd realized what I had when you were mine/I'd go back to December, turn around and make it alright"

zuko having that moment where he takes a moment before he goes to apologize and join the gaang. he thought about the catacombs every single day and he thought it would be everything he wanted but it wasn't and now he just wants to have that same vulnerability he was able to have with katara before.

"These days, I haven't been sleepin'/Stayin' up playin' back myself leavin'"

he literally wasn't sleeping well in the fire nation lol like yeah he was definitely cursing himself for leaving.

"And then the cold came, the dark days/When fear crept into my mind/You gave me all your love and all I gave you was goodbye"

i would count azula as the cold and zuko feared this would be the only home and then katara put all her faith in zuko and he just gave her a goodbye.

"I miss your tan skin, your sweet smile/So good to me, so right/And how you held me in your arms that/September night/The first time you ever saw me cry/Maybe this is wishful thinkin'/Probably mindless dreamin'/But if we loved again, I swear I'd love you right"

uhhnmm tanned skin and sweet smile!? best girl katara?! i certainly think so and again just the vulnerability of the catacombs that zuko really regrets losing and zuko knows he probably can't get it back but he is gonna do his best and if he gets it he's never gonna let it go.

"I'd go back in time and change it, but I can't/So if the chain is on your door, I understand"

if zuko could he absolutely would. the moment he made that choice he regretted it on some level, but he does understand why katara can't trust him.

If This Was A Movie

"Last night I heard my own heart beating/Sounded like footsteps on my stairs/Six months gone and I'm still reaching/Even though I know you're not there/I was playing back a thousand memories, baby/Thinking 'bout everything we've been through/Maybe I've been going back too much lately/When time stood still and I had you"

i always imagine that while katara is healing aang she has a bunch of quiet time to herself and she just can't stop thinking about zuko. she just really wishes he'd come with her and thinking about how different everything would be with him and how understood she felt in the catacombs with him. she just can't stop and it's driving her a little crazy.

"I know people change and these things happen/But I remember how it was back then/Locked up in your arms and our friends were laughing/'Cause nothing like this ever happened to them/Now I'm pacing up the hall, chasing down your street/Flashback to a night when you said to me/Nothing's gonna change, not for me and you/Not before I knew how much I had to lose"

this makes me think that katara told the others about her experience with zuko and they were all just kind of like "haha zuko is evil" and she's just kind of like "yeah..." but feeling like there really was something there and it's bothering her that she can't just condemn him. katara still thinks nothing will change but she can't help feeling like she could've convinced him somehow.

"If you're out there/If you're somewhere/If you're moving on/I'll be waiting for you/Wary, since you've been gone/I just want it back the way it was before/And I just want to see you back at my front door"

i think that there would've been a small window of time where katara was half hoping zuko would suddenly show up out of the blue and tell her he made a mistake and he was sorry. she would tell herself that it wasn't going to ever happen and she grow the angry shell we see later on, but for a small period of time, she's just wishing zuko was with her.

"Come back, come back, come back to me like/You would before you said it's not that easy/Before the fight, before I locked you out/But I take it all back now"

this feels like a different timing than the rest of the song to me! it feels like zuko coming back and asking forgiveness and he's like "pls im sorry" and katara is like "it isn't that easy anymore" and he's just so frustrated with himself for locking her out and he just wishes he could undo his choice.

"Is that the kind of ending you wanna see now?/Baby, I don't like the ending/Oh, I thought you'd be here now"

again, katara has that small window where she wants zuko to come back and she doesn't like how things are and she just wants him with her bc of their connection in the catacombs. they just clicked and she felt understood and is thinking that maybe if he was there, a*ng wouldn't be like half-dead. it's not the ending she wanted when she offered zuko the spirit water.

State of Grace

"We are alone with our changing minds/We fall in love 'til it hurts or bleeds, or fades in time"

zutara after the war and they have changing mind and they're changing the future and and they are the ride or die kind of lovers.

"And I never (never)/Saw you coming/And I'll never (never)/Be the same"

i really don't think katara imagine in a thousand years that she would be dating the fire lord lol and they both definitely get to grow and change for the better with each other.

"You come around and the armor falls/Pierce the room like a cannonball/Now all we know is don't let go"

literally the crystal catacombs. i know i keep talking about it but literally zuko walks in (or is thrown in whichever) and then we've got our girl falling apart at the seams and in that moment they were like just hanging onto each other for deal life. not literally but ya know or at least i hope you know lol.

"Up in your room and our slates are clean/Just twin fire signs, four blue eyes"

i love the clean slate line. zuko and katara just totally have a fresh slate after "the southern raiders" and also the twin fire signs and four blue eyes makes me think of zutara with their steambaby! adorable <3

"So you were never a saint/And I've loved in shades of wrong/We learn to live with the pain/Mosaic broken hearts/But this love is brave and wild"

zuko was definitely never a saint lol and katara loving in shades of wrong sounds like her little vengeance move in "the southern raiders" and liking jet and just the mistakes she's made because of love or for love. they've learned to live with their pasts and who they are and pieced themselves together and they each think the other has a beautiful mosaic heart. and their love is brave bc they're gonna fight the whole fire nation to stay together and it's kind of a wild card kinda thing.

"This is a state of grace/This is the worthwhile fight/Love is a ruthless game/Unless you play it good and right/These are the hands of fate/You're my Achilles heel/This is the golden age of something good and right and real"

zutara is a worthwhile fight!!! they've experienced the ruthlessness love can have with m/ai and jet and it is low key fate they've met at all. they're leading everyone into a new golden era and zuko literally got hit with lightning for katara bc azula knew it would be his weakness and katara literally forgot about azula for like half a second to try to save zuko! it's amazing i love them.

I Knew You Were Trouble

"Once upon a time, a few mistakes ago/I was in your sights, you got me alone"

i am such a broken record but again katara thinking about what happened in the catacombs and thinking about trusting him was a huge mistake she never should have made.

"And when I fell hard you took a step back/Without me, without me, without me"

she trusted him completely and then he just joined azula!!! how dare he!!!

"And he's long gone when he's next to me/And I realize the blame is on me"

she's going through that whole "he was tricking me the whole time" and "he lied to me and used my mother against me!!!" and is blaming herself for putting faith in him.

"'Cause I knew you were trouble when you walked in/So shame on me now"

lol the way she says zuko when he tumbles into the catacombs is so funny bc she sounds half-shocked that he's there and half-relieved that someone is with her and then just scowls at him.

"Pretends he doesn't know that he's the reason why/You're drowning, you're drowning, you're drowning/Now I heard you moved on from whispers on the street/A new notch in your belt is all I'll ever be/And now I see, now I see, now I see"

zuko comes back and she's all like "nO you helped hurt my friend and you went back to the fire nation! you moved on to 'better things' and you used my feelings against me!" or something like that.

"He was long gone when he met me/And I realize the joke is on me, hey!"

again she's just like blaming herself for making a bad choice in the catacombs.

"And the saddest fear comes creeping in/That you never loved me or her, or anyone, or anything,"

katara still holds that little hope she's trying to ignore that zuko was being honest about his mother. it was nice to know someone like her and if that wasn't real she would be distraught, so she just tries to pretend that it doesn't exist.

I Almost Do

"I bet/This time of night you're still up/I bet/You're tired from a long hard week/I bet/You're sittin' in your chair by the window/Looking out at the city/And I bet/Sometimes you wonder 'bout me"

this song is one of my personal favorites and has been since like... idek but it's been one of my favorites since i was younger in the like around the 1989 era, but that's not the point. this about zutara not me.

this has the energy of tragic post-war zutara. neither of them made the first move and they're each at home thinking about the other and wondering if the other felt the same way they did.

"And I just wanna tell you/It takes everything in me not to call you/And I wish I could run to you/And I hope you know that every time I don't/I almost do"

they both attend peace summits and such and run into each other and just pretend that everything is totally fine and good and that they're not secretly dying to shout about how much they love the other. it's so sad guys </3

"I bet/You think I either moved on or hate you/'Cause each time you reach out there's no reply/I bet/It never ever occurred to you/That I can't say "Hello" to you/And risk another goodbye"

zuko starts dating m/ai to get his council off his back and katara thinks she'll be fine but can't stand it bc she doesn't know its like "fake" and just stops talking to him and stops showing up at things zuko will be at to try to make it easier on herself. zuko is heartbroken and he tries to talk to her and send her letters and he asks sokka about it who just has no idea what's going on and it's just a mess and making me sad.

"Oh, we made quite a mess, babe/It's probably better off this way/And I confess, babe/In my dreams you're touching my face/And asking me if I wanna try again with you/And I almost do"

katara spends time thinking about all the ideas they had and all the fights they went through to get them approved and how they've fought together improve the world but it's for the best if she wasn't with zuko bc the fire nation isn't ready for someone like her and she's terrified that if she ever sees him again her resolve will crumble and she'll be confessing and a disaster.

"I bet/This time of night you're still up/I bet/You're tired from a long hard week/I bet/You're sittin' in your chair by the window/Looking out at the city/And I hope/Sometimes you wonder 'bout me"

same thoughts as beginning but it's both of them hoping that the other is thinking about them.

i'd like to think that one day zuko has enough and he pulls a surprise visit to the south pole and demands to know why she hates him and what he can do to fix it bc all she has to do is name it and it's done. katara just does exactly what she was afraid of and confesses to everything and he's like "that's it???" and then he kisses her or somethin and they're happy bc i am incapable of dealing with sad endings lol

Coney Island

this the song i am maybe the most excited about bc it has been setting off my zutara vibe detector for so long.

"Break my soul in two looking for you/But you're right here"

they're both looking for the one and they get with a*ng and m/ai bc they think that's it and they both realize it's been each other the whole time. ofc it's when they think it's a little too late.

"And if this is the long haul/How'd we get here so soon?/Did I close my fist around something delicate?/Did I shatter you?"

and they just don't get how they've realized that they're looking for the other exactly so quickly. they expected to have to explore it further but they just know that zutara is for them. they both spend so much time thinking about how stupid they were for not choosing zutara and worry that they've ruined their chances and that they've broken the other's heart.

"And I'm sitting on a bench in Coney Island/Wondering, "Where did my baby go?"/The fast times, the bright lights, the merry-go/Sorry for not making you my centerfold"

fun fact you can replace "i'm sitting on a bench at coney island" with "i'm sitting on the dock at ember island" and i do that sometimes when i'm singing alone in my car. but yes they just kind of sit down and think about their time on ember island before the end of the war and regretting again just not choosing each other.

"Over and over/Lost again with no surprises/Disappointments close your eyes/And it gets colder and colder/When the sun goes down"

they just keep missing each other and also!!! the sun going down?!?! zuko is the sun and he's leaving and katara is cold i will not be swayed.

"The question pounds my head/What's a lifetime of achievement/If I pushed you to the edge/But you were too polite to leave me?"

zuko wondering what his achievements even mean if he just pushed katara away when that's that's what he wanted and just if she only stayed around him was bc she was trying to be nice and keep things together and he just-- crisis time guys.

"Will you forgive my soul/When you're too wise to trust me and too old to care?"

forgiveness is big in zutara like we are all suckeres for the ember island forgiveness hug. i know, you know it, we all know it makes us weak. but forgiveness forever in zutara?? excellent even tho it's kinda sad...

"'Cause we were like the mall before the internet/It was the one place to be"

this is one i can't exactly explain but it feels right. zutara was just good and they loved their time together and just wish they could go back to that time even tho it's passed them by.

"Were you waiting at our old spot/In the tree line, by the gold clock?/Did I leave you hanging every single day?"

after all the peace meetings and such they would meet in a spot and talk. they always went there afterwards, but zuko can't get there afterwards bc he's so swamped and katara is stuck waiting endlessly for him to show up. very sad.

"Did I paint your bluest skies the darkest gray?"

not zuko making katara sad bc she's associated with blue. it's all i can think of when it comes to this line.

"And when I got into the accident/The sight that flashed before me was your face/But when I walked up to the podium/I think that I forgot to say your name"

thESE liNEs drive me wild. zuko having an assassination attempt and katara is just flashing through his mind even though she's literally not there and he can see everything he could've had with her and he's just a mess bc he knows he should've seen m/ai in that moment and everything they would’ve missed out on had it been fatal but he didn't.

katara just wishes she'd had the strength to walk up to zuko, fire lord zuko, and tell him everything she knows now bc he's what she's been wanting and searching for all along but it's too late now and she's stuck with her choices and is just going along bc it doesn't feel like it matters who she's with if it isn't zuko.

again, i like to think they do confess and figure things out bc i can't do sad endings, but my favorite way they do confess is that zuko goes to tell katara about what happened with assassination attempt and ask her if he's going crazy and before he can actually say anything she just says it all and everything about how she's feeling bc she can't keep it in anymore and he's like "oh okay bc i was worried i was literally losing it" and then they're happy <3

#zutara #zuko #katara #im back on my taylor bs #im just always thinking about taylor #taylor supports zutara #she does i swear #taylor swift the zutara stan #anti kataang #anti aang #anti mai #anti maiko #just in case #so people dont see things they dont want to #i try to be nice lol

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lovebecomeshim · 3 years

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hello! your zutara posting today has finally motivated me to ask this question because I came to atla very late(last year, to be specific) and I Love It Very Much but am 1000% out of the loop as far as why what remains of fandom (at least that I've seen among my friends) is so very strongly zutara. I'm not opposed to it per se I just don't really know what has driven it to apparently be such a popular ship? can you help me understand and maybe convert me a little bit?

Hey!! Your ICON! :D I can try but I’m not sure how coherent I’ll be; however I AM sure someone a lot more competent will be willing to add to this. Either way, I’m glad you asked because my plan was to drag down as many people as possible with me.

*smacks the hood of zutara* this baby can fit so much mutual love and support!

This got so long, I’m so sorry. I don’t know how to put it under a cut on mobile and it already got deleted once so I’m scared to mess with it lol. Moving on.

I’m gonna start this with a disclaimer that im on mobile so formatting is tricky and I’m also really new to atla in that I only completed my first watch through in like 2019??? So some of my info is all just based on what I’ve picked up from Discourse 👀 so anyway the sparknotes version: zutara was wildly popular from the beginning. To the point where the atla crew internally disagreed on which ship should be endgame. (Ex. Bryke [showrunners] asked the writers to rewrite The Southern Raiders to make Zuko seem less ideal for Katara than Aang [which failed, depending on who you ask]; the animation team purposefully created a visual parrallel between Oma and Shu in the Cave of Two Lovers and Zuko and Katara in the catacombs under Ba Sing Se in the Crossroads of Destiny; etc.)

The ship was popular enough that Bryke actually chose to display zk fanart at a con for the sole purpose of mocking the fans, but that’s neither here nor there. The entire episode Ember Island Players, while a love letter to/parody of the whole show, was an opportunity to address zutara’s viability as a canon pairing (while, again, mocking zutaras for romanticizing that catacombs scene). Point is! It’s always been popular but with it not being endgame, there’s got to be something that’s given it staying power.

And that’s honestly got to do with three things: their dynamic, thematic cohesion, and potential.

(You know what... you know what, it’s four things. The fourth is they’re so aesthetically pleasing together and individually. Like, they’re just good looking people [specifically when they’re grown but they’re also cute kids] and that absolutely doesn’t hurt) (but it’s not the Point, it’s just nice to point out sometimes)

The dynamic is hard to get into without also looking at the canon pairings, but I think I can do that without unnecessary bashing. It’s just that part of the magic of zutara is really highlighted by what they give to each other that their other relationships don’t.

First off, it’s classic enemies to (would be) lovers. The absolute truest form of it. It’s not too different from how CS started out: a rogue antagonist with a job to do—but no personal vendetta against the future love interest—who is deeply and emotionally invested in his personal storyline (revenge/redemption) with little regard for how it effects other people after his entire life and genuine good nature are marred by suffering, and a fierce warrior girl with a strong moral compass and her own personal investment in stopping him (protect her family and save the world doing it). Obviously frustration and animosity grew between them by the nature of them being on opposing sides, but that just lends itself to the sweetness of their later reconciliation.

The thing is that while they’re wildly different on the surface (he’s a hot-headed prince of a fascist regime who is trying to capture the Avatar to please his father; she’s a nurturing daughter of the chief who is trying to protect and train the Avatar in order to topple his father’s throne) they find out that they have so much more in common both in their experiences and their personalities.

(What follows is an excessive use of the word “both” and I’m sorry about that)(I can edit it. I can do that. That IS an option............)

They both have an innate sense of justice that they are determined to see done (zuko, at the war meeting, sticking up for the Earth Kingdom kid when the guards torment his family, choosing not to steal from the pregnant couple despite his circumstances, abiding by his word to leave the SWT should Aang come willingly, etc.; katara, literally.... at any point). They both have pretty one-track minds at accomplishing certain goals once they’ve put their mind to it, regardless of a lack of support in that endeavor (it goes without saying I guess, but zuko’s entire hunt; katara’s determination to get the earth benders to fight back, her determination to absolutely destroy Pakku until he agrees to teach her, etc.). They both lost their mothers at young ages. Their worlds are war-torn and traumatizing to them both, if in different ways, but that ultimately forces them to grow up too quickly to be wholly independent individuals. They both have issues with their fathers (for WILDLY different reasons, but). They both hold extreme prejudices that they need to learn to overcome (which ties into thematic cohesion)(bit like Lizzie and Darcy in that way but magnified by a million). They’re both extremely emotional and empathetic—which can and often does result in loud outbursts. Katara’s a bit better adjusted and can temper her anger for longer than S1 Zuko can, but they both feel that anger deeply and have no compunctions expressing it (Katara is, usually, more justified, particularly in S1. Again, S1 Zuko is severely maladjusted but at the point when they could’ve feasibly become a couple, he’s so much better off with the way he carries himself). They both struggle with feelings of inferiority in their bending abilities when confronted with prodigal benders like Aang and Azula, but have the work ethic required to double down and become two of the most powerful benders in the three remaining nations. This is a little more minor but it is a parrallel that appeals to some shippers that they both have these alter egos in the Painted Lady (notably fire nation coded) and the Blue Spirit (water tribe coded) that are pretty different from who they are day-to-day and are useful in accomplishing a purpose that they as themselves cannot.

(I’m.... I just realized that this could potentially get very long. Should I have made a slide show with bullet points??????)

Anyway, similar. I know there’s more but there’s literally so much to love about zutara that I’ll drive myself a little crazy trying to compile all the ways they’re similar. (Just gonna say that at this exact moment I went back to add more similarities.... so okay then)

Once they’ve reconciled, we see how all of these things only lend themselves to a deeper intimacy together than they share with literally anyone else. There’s a steady partnership that positions them as the mom/dad of the gaang, while also providing the support necessary to allow the other to not have to carry so much responsibility. A lot of zutaras will point out how zuko is actually depicted doing the more domestic chores that are normally relegated to Katara once he joins the gaang, since the others in the group are two 12-year-olds and sokka. The one that sticks out the most is how he makes tea for the group and then serves them, while Katara is able to just relax with her friends around the fire. Fanon expands upon this a lot to Zuko helping with the laundry or the cooking or whatever else needs doing since he, as a once-refugee, is used to doing his own domestic tasks. Before Zuko joined, Katara was the one mothering everyone, sewing for them, cooking for them, etc. She’s always tending to the needs of the group, and that includes emotionally. She does the emotional labor for the gaang 99% of the time, but when she’s the one falling apart, she’s usually doing it alone and without the comfort that she normally provides for others. Until Zuko. And that’s before they’re even friends.

Which is WHY people romanticize the catacombs of Ba Sing Se so much. Katara is verbally attacking Zuko out of her own righteous anger but also her own prejudice when Zuko, surprisingly, chooses to be vulnerable with her. He’s been on a journey that’s opened his eyes a bit, but he’s never actively chosen to expose the rawest parts of his past to anyone. But for some reason he chooses to do that with Katara of all people. While she’s yelling at him. He sees her humanity, and for once can look past his prejudice and empathize with her. And this time, when she breaks down, she gets to be comforted. Katara normally talks about her mother when she’s trying to explain to someone else that she sees and understands they’re pain, as a form of comfort to them. Here, Zuko uses the exact same tactic. He sees her and he understands. And for zuko? He’s not being shut down. He’s allowed to articulate his pain regarding his mother without being ignored and made to internalize it, and he’s allowed to process how he feels about his scar out loud without being told that he deserved it. And then he lets her touch his scar, something we’ve seen him actively avoid before. He’s completely open to her and she’s completely open to him and all it took was one five minute conversation. She was about to use the little bit of Spirit water that she had, that she was saving for something Important, to heal the scar that still daily causes him pain just because they had, somehow, connected.

Plus there’s the whole parallel to the star-crossed lovers forbidden from one another, a war divides their people—

And then zuko messes up, he regresses, he gets what he wants and he HATES it. And the sense of justice he had as a child has been restored to him against his will and he can’t think of anything he wants to do more than the Right Thing, so he joins team avatar. Before he does that though, we get to see his relationship with Mai, which is where comparison really comes in. And what we see is Zuko, fresh off of his encounter with Katara in the catacombs, trying to be emotionally honest with Mai... and getting shut down and dismissed. Which is just how Mai is and it’s fine, but not for Zuko. Still, he keeps trying, and he keeps getting ignored or scoffed at or yelled at. Which is really a larger symbol for how he doesn’t fit in his old life anymore, but again that’s about thematic cohesion. He tries to articulate his anxieties about returning home, he tries to make romantic gestures, he tries to explain how morally conflicted he’s feeling—and Mai diverts to some kind of physical affection to shut him up and a parting comment that is pretty much always, in essence, “I don’t wanna talk about this.” So they don’t. On the other hand, once zuko and Katara are friends, we see him again emotionally distraught and caught up in his anxieties about facing Iroh, and it’s Katara who comes to him and listens to him and comforts and encourages him.

Similarly, we have Aang clamming up and getting uncomfortable whenever Katara shows any negative emotion, usually resulting in him making excuses or running away. Or, in the case of the Southern Raiders, lecturing her on how she needs to just let go of her anger about her mother’s murder. People have talked this episode to death and usually better than I ever could, so imma... keep it brief. There’s a serious disconnect between Aang and Katara in his ability to empathize with Katara and her needs that has her tamping down her vulnerability and amping up her anger. He tells her that he was able to forgive his people’s genocide and appa’s kidnapping (petnapping? Theft??), which is blatantly not true but also not an entirely equal parrallel to Katara’s situation, and continues making these little remarks throughout the episode. But it’s Zuko that Katara opens up to. It’s with him that she’s able to talk about the most traumatic day of her life, and it’s with him that she’s able to get the closure she needs, cementing their bond as friends and partners. This disagreement between Aang and Katara is then... never resolved. They just never bring it up and hear what the other is saying.

There’s a fic called The Portraits of Ember Island that has a line that so completely sums up the heart of the matter for why people love their dynamic. For context, zuko has woken up early to help Katara with the cooking and they spend the whole time just letting one another talk, and zuko stops to ask why she always just lets him talk. And so she stops to ask why he’s always helping, and it goes as follows:

There’s just... so much mutual support! Trust! Intimacy!! And it just continues like that from the Southern Raiders on, listening to each other, advising each other, watching each other’s backs! And then! Literally saving each other’s lives!! I will never be over the last Agni kai. Not ever. Zuko may have been willing to jump in front of lightning for anyone, but he actually did it for Katara. And in a show, that’s the thing that really matters. It’s a fulfilled trope usually exclusively applied to romantic pairings, and it ended up applying to Zuko and Katara. And then she ran out into the middle of a fight with tunnel vision just to get to him.

Also!! Also Zuko pushing Katara out of the way of the falling rocks at the Western Air Temple!! And Katara catching him as he fell from the war balloon that he fought Azula on!! Before they’re even getting along, they’re the ones reaching for each other. They come to this place of equal ground, as partners, who watch each other’s backs, call each other out but still listen attentively and understand, and provide the support that the other has been sorely lacking up until they knew each other (whether that be from lack of effort or lack of understanding from others, or an unwillingness to accept it for themselves).

Then, trailing along under the surface of this, we see the themes of the show totally embodied by Zuko and Katara as individuals and in their relationship to one another. There’s a YouTuber, sneezyreviews, who has a, like, 2-hour explanation on why she not only loves zutara but also believes that their endgame would’ve actually elevated the writing of atla to new levels particularly because of thematic cohesion and resolved character arcs. It’s the zutara dissertation I never knew I needed, and it’s funny and eloquent and effective, so I’m just going to sum up her section on thematic cohesion to the best of my abilities and then link it for whenever you have the time. And I HIGHLY recommend it, especially if you want a full understanding of what makes zutara so great and gives it such longevity.

Guru pathik has a line that goes something like this: separation is an illusion; things that seem different are just two parts of the same whole. Iroh also tells Zuko something similar: balance and strength are achieved when the different nations come together and influence one another and celebrate what makes them each unique. And this lesson is a massive central arc that both Zuko and Katara go through, moving past a black-and-white, good guys-vs-bad guys, us-vs-them mentality and into a greyer, more nuanced view of the world. Zuko sees the fire nation from an entirely new perspective and while he still loves and hopes for his nations future, he surrenders his blind loyalty to them in exchange for an unflinching loyalty to peace and love. Katara too had to come to terms with the fact that cruel people exist in the earth kingdom and water tribes, while some fire nation citizens are just regular, kind people who also need and deserve to have someone speak on their behalf. And this is honed in directly on how they view each other. They grow in their individual journeys to be open to the humanity in the other and then, once they’ve found that, they’re able to grow more in compassion for others in a beautiful feedback loop. And this is all matched in the symbolism repeatedly and intentionally associated with them in canon: sun and moon, fire and water, yin and yang, Oma and Shu who found love despite their warring nations. Their individual arcs are completed in each other and complement the themes of atla beautifully.

The canon pairs... just don’t. Which, again, is fine. But the very things that give atla longevity and popularity are anchored in zutara. Kat@ang doesn’t accomplish this. They’re... nice. Sweet. Especially when you erase a good portion of their interactions in S3. It could’ve been just a sweet love story. (Personally, the dynamic between toph and aang accomplish the same thing that zutara does, with complementary personalities that fulfill the theme of opposites blending in harmony) M@iko, on the other hand, is less sweet but I think wasn’t even supposed to last. Zuko’s relationship with Mai seems to represent his relationship with his old life as a whole. He can’t be emotionally vulnerable, he’s goaded into abusing his privileges, his agency and opinions aren’t respected. They just don’t have common ground with which to discuss anything that matters, so they don’t. As far as themes, the relationship doesn’t fit with atla. It’s zuko returning to and sticking with what is (on the surface) like him, what’s expected. Fire nation with fire nation. Fluid water bender with the flexible air bender. Like with like, separated from what is different and challenging and complementary.

And all of these things combined of course lead to the potential for the ship. I don’t know how familiar you are with the post-atla canon but... well, miss “I will never turn my back on people who need me”, miss “I don’t want to heal! I want to fight!” ends up living quietly in the SWT as a designated healer who turns a blind eye to the water tribe civil war happening right outside her front door. Which can be fine! People change! Some people just wanna stay inside. I just wanna stay inside! But the potential future for zutara is so much more satisfying, with Katara becoming the most unconventional Fire Lady the uppity old cads who are stuck on the old ways have ever seen. Fanon has her serving as a voice for the other nations within a kingdom at the point of its biggest political upheaval, as a confidante to Zuko who can actually help him while he’s trying to figure out how to move forward and make reparations. They have the opportunity, together, to accomplish what they both have set on their hearts to fight for: positive change that lends itself to harmony and balance. And the steambabies! A popular headcanon is that their firstborn daughter, the crown princess, is actually a waterbender, which causes such an uproar among the people who are adamantly clinging to the old ways. It’s just a future full of potential to be forces for good together, full of trust, intimacy, joy. The exact era of peace and love and balance that zuko announces that he intends to ring in with the start of his reign as Fire Lord is, again, magnified by the very personal zutara relationship. And we love to see it.

tl;dr zutara isn’t for everyone. Some people just don’t vibe with it. Some are nostalgic. Some love the canon they grew up with. Some have been disappointed for years. Some just see themselves in other characters and want their happiness instead. Whatever the reason, that’s fine. But for me, I love the way these two, from the moment they give each other a fair chance, are able to lower their walls and prejudices to see the other for the kindred spirits they are. They see each other’s humanity, and their response is to pour out love and support and compassion. I love that they’re a power couple in battle. I love the symbolism and, honestly, soulmatism that colors their every interaction. I love that they embody the whole storyline of atla in their relationship and how it develops, which is notably why their seasonal arcs always culminate in each finale with how they relate to one another. I love that zuko adopting a waterbending move is what actually saves his life and then katara’s. I love the chemistry! And I love the future they could’ve had, instead of the ones they were given.

So, in conclusion: I just think they’re neat and I hope you do too, at least a little bit. Even if it’s just respectfully from a disinterested distance cause you do you. And now here is the video I mentioned. I’m sorry this post got so long and then I gave you an even longer homework assignment, but I can’t recommend it enough. She says it all better than I can.

youtube

#zutara #atla #zutara rant #like really the way the canon relationships were written throughout s3 #it would’ve been more believable for zutara to happen #or at least be hinted at #all of the major issues presented in those relationship were dug up extensively and then... never resolved #and then they just slapped some kisses on a screen and said ‘there all better’#and we just kinda had to say ‘oh ok guess it’s all better then’#this got long I’m sorry #I wrote it all out and then tumblr ate 2/3 of it #which is why it took so long #and what I’ve written now doesn’t even match what I had before #because there’s too much to say about why I love zutara #and the stuff I left out the first time is what came out this time #rip to my original thoughts but this post is different #anyway that’s why this took so long #and I should’ve just made a PowerPoint...#I can do that too if you’d rather not read all of this lol #I won’t be offended #this is incoherent #Alia rambles uselessly #also hoping this doesn’t end up in any wrong tags because I don’t wanna step on toes lol #it’s not anti!! it’s just critical #in a compare/contrast way #I can pinpoint the moment when I started trying to rewrite my points from memory #because everything gets shorter and more succinct #like... I really said all that??? sounds fake and I don’t remember it anyway so here’s the condensed version #with no!! smooth!!! transitions!!!!#also why am I so lazy with proper grammar over text

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sokkastyles · 3 years

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Hello again... so, I saw your answers in a post calling Zutarians toxic and whatever, and I just thought about how crazy that was. I don't know much about tumblr because I blocked the keteeng hastag, but on instagram is incredible the amount of keteeng posts with the Zutara hastag. I blocked sooo many Atla accounts that I can't even count anymore. They posted things accusing, harassing Zutarians, or just Keteeng images that I, as a Zutara shipper, don't wanna see it! I never understood why they do this, because I follow a lot of zutara pages and nobody puts Keteeng hastag under Zutara posts (but some keteengers still go there start fights). It's soo annoying! I saw Zutara fans asking Keteengers pages to stop using Zutara hastag, but they don't care. They are incredible rudes... swear, I can't barely stand Atla anymore.

It's so obnoxious because people will try and use "x zutara shipper did x thing once" as an excuse to behave horribly, and in some cases it's "I heard that zutara shippers were horrible so I feel justified in my bad behavior." The OP of the post wasn't doing that but the post still rubbed me the wrong way because the response to the question "is zutara bad? Are the shippers bad" shouldn't be, "well, some are, and taint the image of the ship" it should be "no, of course not." Some people behaving badly doesn't taint a ship's image because zutara fans do not owe it to anyone to uphold an image. That's also why I get annoyed when even zutara fans try and police other fans under the guise of "we gotta uphold the image so they won't have a reason to hate us!" It's respectability politics, which, newsflash, never stopped people who are determined to hate you from hating you and then blaming you for it. And bending to their attempts to manipulate you just gives them more fuel to abuse you with. People like that aren't worth your effort.

When I first got into the fandom I saw numerous posts about how you had to like KA over zutara because of bad behavior from zutara fans. Which makes no sense to me at all. I ship what I ship because I like it, not as a performance of virtue, and I have no respect for people who do the latter and even less for those who demand I do so.

#zutara #atla fandom #the discourse

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theowritesfiction · 2 years

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hm okay, I'm gonna try to send some rare pairs & pairs we haven't really talked about or that I don't know how you feel about your way for fun now :)

azula/mai, katara/ty lee, zuko/mai, zuko/katara, azula/jet, yue/zuko, azula/suki, sokka/mai

Maizula

I get more of a friends vibe from these two. It doesn't really help that Mai is the one lady from the show I tend to see and write as straight. I think that they have quite complex feelings for each other that would be interesting to explore, I just don't see them as romantic.

Katara/Ty Lee

I have read exactly one fic with them as a couple and it was kind of cute. I haven't really thought about them too much, and at first I'm struggling to find something meaningful for them to bond over. I could see them having a bit of a fling, a cute friends with benefits thing, though.

Maiko

When I started writing in ATLA fandom, I made the common Zutara writer mistake by being way too dismissive of Mai and her relationship with Zuko, which I have since come to reconsider completely. I think it's clear that Mai and Zuko care a lot for each other, but I also think that their relationship is bound to be a rocky one. But that's also what makes them interesting as a couple. I want to actually write them together in a future fic, I haven't really done that.

Zutara

The ship I started out with (cringe at the lack of originality there), and I still think they have a good dynamic as a couple and could work together well, but I'm just no longer interested in them since I'm done with Katara in F/M ships. If you were to put a gun to my head and told me to ship Katara with one of the boys, I'd go with Zuko.

Jetzula

Just don't like Azula in F/M ships, same as with Katara. Azutara has ruined that for me. <3 I think Azula and Jet have an amazing dynamic, and I really love the way you write their friendship, which is exactly what I prefer, a rather volatile friendship. Again, if you were to put a gun to my head and told me to ship Azula with one of the boys, I'd actually choose Jet. It's why I chose Jet as her attempt at heteronormativity in WLG, and I will probably use Jet as Azula's 'phase' in the future.

Yue/Zuko

I actually like this pairing a lot. I think if you were to take all the reasons why people believe that Zutara works and applied them to Yue/Zuko, those reasons would apply and work even better there. I feel like Yue could handle Zuko's tantrums better than most. The ship would also allow to explore some interesting political alliance angles, the whole arranged marriage turning into something real trope would literally write itself for these two.

Azula/Suki

I can see this being a very explosive relationship. Honestly, I chose love it! because my mind immediately went to 'oh god just imagine the crazy hate sex these two would have'. I think that if I spent more time thinking about these two, I might come up with other things for them to bond over. They kind of give me that Fuffy vibe. <3

Sokka/Mai

I have no idea how to rank this, I have literally never thought about it for some reason. I'm struggling to see how they would function as a couple, they both bottle everything up so much. But I'll also say that all the potential disastrous issues they would face, also makes me kind of fascinated with them as a couple. I might need to think about these two some more. :)

#answered ask #these are so much fun <3

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zelzenik · 3 years

Text

my take on the infamous kataang kisses

so i just saw this post that spoke highly of Kataang and on how ATLA deals w consent and what's allowed between partners, and i'm... i'm mad, lol.

this has been spoken on before, but since these bad takes are still floating around on the internet, i feel the need to at least vent/give some sort of rebuttal.

i'm not linking or screenshotting this post, but this is word-for-word what was said regarding Kataang (questionable grammar has been transposed as well):

"One of the many things I adore about atla is how the girls are allowed to and do tell their partners off when they cross a line.... Katara gets upset with Aang for kisses her without her consent, and it's never made out to be overly dramatic or unreasonable, it's framed so that the girls are in the right."

HOW does Kataang properly convey this message??

there's a lot to unpack here. like, a lot

just to start off, yes, i'm aware that not all Kataangers believe that the kisses were consensual and can recognize how problematic (and WRONG) they were. but there are some (many) who do not

for the sake of this rebuttal, we're all going to establish and agree on what happened with the Kataang kisses. personally, in the Cave of Two Lovers episode, i don't believe they kissed - if they had kissed, the creators would've made that known in the show; in the Day of the Black Sun episode, it was clear that Katara was NOT pleased w what went down, same with the Ember Island Players episode; the finale kiss was consensual, however, in my opinion, it made absolutely no sense and came out of nowhere.

this is an address to the following various shippers within the ATLA fandom.

to those who DEFEND Aang's actions toward Katara and JUSTIFY these non-consensual kisses:

don't DO this. these portrayals of murky non-con kisses on television are so harmful!! they perpetuate this whole "nice guy" complex where a guy (or anyone) thinks that he (or they) deserve(s) or can take physical affection from others without their consent/mutual feeling. we have such an awful problem in media concerning these sorts of "nice guys" who wind up taking advantage of women simply due to the fact that they know they're nice and feel that they deserve it.

yes, Aang was a child. yes, he was in an iceberg for like 100 years. i work with plenty of preteens from the ages 10-12, and they've all been taught to respect other people's boundaries, especially when it involves romantic (and depending on how old they are, sexual) encounters; it's worth noting that, at least from my experience, guys are significantly less interested in relationships around this age than girls are!

portraying Aang in a light where he simply takes what he wants from Katara multiple times does a disservice both to him as a character and to all who watched the show without having a clear outside understanding of physical boundaries.

to those who claim that the non-con Kataang kisses are good lessons to others on consent

i might have been able to agree with you had the situations been ADDRESSED within the show! but they were NOT.

the non-con Kataang kisses are not a good example of when a girl has been made uncomfortable by a guy or has been touched nonconsensually by one and stands up for herself because we never have a scene where Katara actually stands up for herself!

between the two non-con Kataang kisses that occurred during the show, not even FRACTION of the show was dedicated toward addressing them!

okay, yes, if you rewatch the show as an older teen or an adult with accurate views on consent, then, yes, those non-con kisses can be an example of how pervasive lack of consent is within our past/current culture

but, for the most part, this show is watched by kids. it's a kids' show. ofc it's grown to be much more beyond a kids' show, and there are so many teens/adults who LOVE the ATLA fandom, and that's totally cool! i'm always anti-harassment and anti-bullying-people-for-enjoying-shows-they-love.

for a show that's primarily marketed to children, though, regardless of the time that it was made in (since the 2000's were far less up to date on consent than we are now in the 2020's), if non-con kisses are included, then they should be addressed.

they can only be good lessons if they're addressed, instead of left hanging and teaching children that such non-con kisses are rewarded.

canonizing Kataang, in a way, validated Aang's blatant ignorance of Katara's boundaries which annoys me to no end.

to those who who say that this behavior was FINE because Kataang canonically dated/married

it's not! it's really freakin not!

do you know how many women experience some form of sexual harassment or assault or rape within their lifetime?? 1 in 6!

and do you know how often these women are unable to do anything about it because the person who attacked them is someone that they love or are involved with?

just because one may be in a relationship with another person doesn't simply excuse this type of behavior.

"no" or "i don't think this is a good idea" or "i'm not feeling this" or "maybe later?" or "i don't feel so good" or "we're in the middle of a war right now" or SILENCE -> NOT CONSENT!!

regardless of your relationship with another person, if they do not respect these boundaries, then they have not respected your damn boundaries.

i don't care if they're your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your husband or your wife or your partner. whatever. if they ignore your boundaries, then they are not respecting you, point blank.

closing

it's no secret that i'm a huge anti Kataanger. i first watched the show as a teenager, and while i initially started the show off loving Kataang, as soon as i hit the non-con kisses, i was immediately turned off from the ship and became a huge Zutara shipper (not even knowing which ship was ultimately endgame but especially loving the dynamic between ZK post-Crystal Catacombs scene).

as someone who's survived a relationship with non-con elements present, i cannot in good conscience ship Kataang because of those non-con kisses.

i love both Aang and Katara too much as characters to see them portrayed in such a way. what hurts the most is that all of these issues COULD have been fixed in the show, if there'd been some sort of reconciliation between Aang and Katara, some sort of encounter where Aang recognized that what he did was wrong and Katara learned that it's okay to say no. but this did not happen. so here i am writing a meta/rant/vent about it.

i understand that this post may not be well received, but this is something i really needed to get off my chest (again) because i hate seeing people praising ATLA for its poor examples of consent within relationships. (it literally drives me crazy.)

#nice guy #this isn't proofread #but #anti kataang #pro katara #anti anti aang #i love both aang and katara #and they were both done so dirty in b3 #i genuinely love both #i would've given kataang a chance had those non-con kisses not happened #despite shipping zutara #i would've j multishipped or smth #but w the way b3 turned out?#hell no #get that away from me #aang needed to grow the hell up and learn #katara needed to stand up for herself and recognize she needs a partner who's an equal #and they could've been that for each other #or #they could've found other people better suited for each other #cough zutara cough taang #but yeah stop praising bryke for giving good lessons on consent cuz all they did is perpetuate the mentality #by validating and rewarding non-con gestures thru kataang's canonity #long post #sorry #i could write abt why i'm anti kataang all day #despite loving them both so much #zel meta

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shinidamachu · 3 years

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I had no idea that the creators hated zutara. I never got into the atla fambase but i did watch and i kinda shipped zuko and katara together. I guess cause of the last fight scene together and that one part when they were trapped together. I hope shipping wars in atla aren't as bad as what i see in the inuyasha fandom.

I have no issue with aang and katara being canon though. But i would think that the creator would have been aware that not everyone is going to agree with what you do you just have to accept it. Like i don't 100% agree with some of the things RT did in the inuyasha manga but im fine with it.

Crazy, right?

I think the Inuyasha fandom is currently actually pretty chill on the ship wars department (the sᴇssʀɪɴ thing is something else entirely), but the analysis, metas and discussion on the ATLA fandom seem to be still growing strong to this day.

The first time I watched ATLA I was too young and not really interested in the romantic part, so it flew right over my head (to the point I was legit surprised when I learned people actually shipped Zutara). Like, I knew Aang had a crush on Katara and I loved Aang so of course I'd expect them to end up together, but that's just it, isn't it?

The whole ship is based on Aang's feelings while ignoring Katara's or limiting them to "she'll come around." Which she inexplicably does, off screen and after the war is over in the best "hero-gets-the-girl" style. This realization, that only came to me after rewatching, now as an adult, really put me off the ship. Not to mention how much it hurts their individual character developments.

Especially Aang's, who was facing a "Want vs Need" dillema and had the solution handed over to him without actually sacrificing anything to achieve it. It's sad to watch a character I love so much become that possessive, entitled and having the narrative reward him for it, cheating him from the growth he so desperately deserved.

That's my main issue with the ship (that and the way it treats Katara). On paper, it had everything to be friends-to-lovers supremacy, just the most wholesome, healthy, fluffy couple ever... but the execution was very poorly done. So I don't hate it, but I can't get behind it either.

On the other hand, the more I rewatched the show, the more I could see exacly where Zutara shippers were coming from until I became straight up obsessed. The amount of chemistry, understanding and wasted potential between them was just insane.

#Zutara #Katara #Zuko #Sidmailing #ATLA

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heavensenthearty · 3 years

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Starting to realize why people claim Fire Lady Katara is racist, however their reason is flawed. They think that if Katara is Fire Lady, she has to renounce her Water Tribe heritage entirely, force to live in the Fire Nation only and never see her birth home again, and her kids will never learn of their Water Tribe heritage. Which...why would an Ambassidor do that and what makes people think Zuko would put that on her? And also, half that shit happened in canon after she married Aang, their kids are ignorant of a lot of their heritage and she was forced to stay in one place.

Am I crazy to see this?

I can guarantee you you're not crazy, A! 😉

Now, about the reason why people would think all of that... I don't know. Maybe it is their obsession with race and blood purity. Maybe it is xenophobia. Maybe it is that they have that much disdain for multicultural families 🤷🏽‍♀️

Nevertheless, whatever their reason is, it is very, very, very blinded to the realities of multicultural families.

Like mine! ☺️

My great-grandmother — the mother of my grandmother — came to Venezuela as a Spanish immigrant (yes, for anyone out there, Spanish) and she had children with a wealthy man here, my great-grandfather. Many years later, she became a gardener and agriculturist, and my mom told me she taught her, my aunts and uncles how to care and grow all plants native from her hometown back in Spain.

So much for immigrants forgetting their roots, huh? 🙄

That was my great-grandmother. My very grandfather — the husband of my grandmother — was born in Trinidad and Tobago, but his mother died giving birth to him, so my great-great-grandfather took custody of him and raised him... in Holland.

Yeah, my veeeeeeeeeeery white, veeeeeeeeeeery European great-great-grandfather had a daughter with a Trinidadian woman. She inherited a very dark skin-color, so did my grandfather.

Anyway, when my grandfather grew up, he studied abroad in many countries, including Trinidad and Tobago, before settling in Venezuela with my grandmother. He learned a language for every country he was in, 7 languages in total.

Seriously, people. Multicultural families, and their children, and the children of their children do just fine with the mix of races and countries.

Everyone in my family is perfectly aware of our European and Latin American heritage, we even remember our ancestors last names from before they had to change them for entering this country.

The only way that kind of dynamic could become a racist interpretation is if one of those heritages would be deliberately hidden or one took dominance over the other which is not what Zutara shippers — for the most part — do with the Fire Lady Katara trope, antis just jump to make conclusions of their own because they have no idea how these family dynamics work and they are not interested in learning because when people like me try to tell them, they tell us to shut up.

Sure, someone could write the trope in a harmful way, but antis can rest assured that those people have more in common with them than what they have with the rest of the Zutara fandom because they don't know, listen, or understand people from multiracial lineages.

It shows in the way they assume adult!Kataang was written just fine despite Bumi and Kya knowing little to nothing about Air Nomad culture. According to them, it is fine because it bored Bumi and Kya.

Dude, how fascinating do you think it is for me to learn about 1900 Holland?! I'll tell you: not much, but at least my parents take the bother to be honest with me!

Not to mention that argument completely ignores Bumi and Kya's feelings as well, since they very clearly resented Tenzin because Aang had only taken the bother to take him under his wing.

They think the way Katara was put in her marriage with Aang was okay because she stayed in the Southern Water Tribe "where she belongs", according to them. The impact and recognition she could have had on a world scale be damned!

Oh, and I hate to break it to them, but apparently The Southern Water Tribe wasn't anyone's priority for a loooooooooong time as these girls — whoever they are and however the heck do they fit in OG canon — stated:

They are supposedly Katara's childhood friends from the Southern Water Tribe. This comes from The Rift trilogy and they are furious at Katara for staying away from their Tribe way after the war ended in favor of helping her peace-loving boyfriend to end conflict all over the world.

Oh, I mean, I should make more emphasis as they did: all over the world but the Southern Water Tribe.

Now, leaving to the side whatever issues I may have with their characters' conceptions, they are there to call out (and tell the audience) Katara's abandonment of her home tribe due to her focus on Aang's own work. And, listen, nobody is blaming Aang for this, it is his work and maybe he just can't put the Southern Water Tribe as a priority right now — not all political decisions can be done based on personal feelings. But we are seeing whatever issues there could be with Zuko and Katara's fanon relationship already took place in Aang and Katara's canon relationship.

Perhaps we should be grateful for it, now fanon shippers know exactly what not to do when writing romances.

#zutara #anti kataang #pro zutara #tw discourse #angel answers 🤍

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