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liesoverthec · 3 years

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I don't know if you've paid any attention to this but do you know the official ages of the main characters? You've always paid attention to little details so i feel like you'd be the right person to ask this to.

Hi anon! ❤️ I’m SO SO sorry this took so long!

I appreciate you thinking of me for this - I have in fact paid attention to this 😂 I know about the general age of some characters, and I know within a year of others (depending on when their birthday is they may have aged up already!)

Bobby - 54. He says in the pilot that he’s 50 years old, and so you figure he’s at least 54 by now, if not 55 if his birthday was between January (when the pilot aired) and now!

Athena - mid 50s. In Athena Begins, I feel like it’s safe to assume she’s around 22 or 23, since she’s in law school but not close to finishing (and I really don’t think she took a gap year), and that was 1989, so she was *probably* born around 1966-67. Which would put her around 54-55 right now, which fits with how old Bobby is!

Hen - 41. She says in Future Tense that she joined med school at 40 (if she’s not rounding for dramatics). Since she got into med school last year in the s3 finale, I’d say 41 now. If she did just say 40 bc it was easy, I’d still say she’s between 39-42 now, bc she’d have to be close in age to 40 to round so automatically like that imo. But at this point I’m going with a simple 41.

Chim - Late 30s to early, early 40s. Chim is one of the two I really don’t have a good idea on. Chimney Begins is set in 2005, and he’s at least 21, since we see him drinking beer in that episode. So he was born sometime before 1984, which would make him 36 right now if he was exactly 21 then, but I think he’s a little older than that, since he’s been working in the bar for a while before the fire. I can’t remember any other details that would give him a more specific age, so if someone does and can provide them I would love to add them! Personally I’d say 39-40, bc I think he’s a little older than Maddie but not by much. I can say however that he has a March birthday! EDIT - thanks to the wonderful @shannon-diaz who remembered that we see Chim’s birthday on his license in 2x10 (you can see the pic provided in the notes!) HOWEVER! I want to make a disclaimer (which I would like to emphasize is not me trying to argue against the lovely Ann at all, she’s absolutely right about this, I just wanna say this) - they have already been changing Chim’s birthday since then, since the license says 10/20/1977 and they’ve since moved his birthday to March. So it’s absolutely possible that they’ve decided to change his age as well. BUT! At the point this was shown, they’d already committed to Madney becoming a thing, so it’s likely they thought about how old Maddie and Chim were in relation to one another. What I don’t know is if they thought about Maddie’s age before then, or if they put it off until they had to during the Daniel arc. All of this is to say - right now, as of end of s4, the best info we have says Chim is 44. But I could also absolutely see the writers pulling a switcharoo on the poor props crew and changing his age, since they’ve already discarded the birth date. So I say, go forth and know that Chim is 44! But also please don’t get mad at me if that information changes in the future 😂

Buck - 29. During the entire Buck Begins arc, they say multiple times that the family has been hiding a secret from him for 29 years, etc etc. In the Valentine’s Day ep in s1, Abby says Buck is 26. And in Kids Today (the opener to s3) Maddie specifically mentions he’s 28. So I’m most sure about Buck, out of everyone, esp since Oliver himself is 29. I think he’s the character where they’re sticking closest to the actor’s actual age.

Maddie - around 37. We know Maddie was 9 when Daniel died (Chim says she made the promise to not talk about Daniel when she was 9). Since Daniel died a little over a year after Buck was born, that puts Maddie around 8 at the time Buck was born, making her 37 to Buck’s 29 as of right now. Also, in ep 4 of s4, her mom mentions her being a “high risk pregnancy” since she’s over 35, but specifically does not say she’s over 40. So 37 or 38 for her. (Side note - Maddie is older than Daniel by between 1.5 to 2 years, since she says Daniel died when he was 7.) like I said, I’m most positive about Buck’s age but Maddie’s is a close second.

Eddie - early 30s? I also have no idea about him. My personal best guess would be 33, since that’s how old Ryan Guzman is now, and they’ve never in my recollection said anything to indicate a different age for him! (Same thing here as goes for Chim - if anyone can remember something let me know!) Note - I’ve been thinking on this a while and I actually feel pretty good about 31-33. We know Chris was born in 2011, so he’s turning 10 sometime soon, and that would make Eddie somewhere between 21-23 when he was born, which I feel fits with a timeline of him taking time to work with his dad after high school, and then joining the army, doing basic, and getting deployed all in time to get leave for Christopher’s birth.

And there’s all 7 mains! I’m going to link this in a bullet point in the next character details post, so if anyone wants to add information for Chim or Eddie (preferably with an episode number and/or scene so that I can verify it), I’ll edit this post and give you credit, so that way when I link this post, people will be able to see it all in one place, and the edits w credit will be in the tag for everyone to see!

Also all of these ages are as of right now, end of s4. If you want to write future fic or fic for a past season you’ll want to add or subtract years accordingly!

Thanks for the question, anon - putting together the “age puzzle” is like my favorite kind of challenge!

🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

#b discusses character details #911 fox #asked and answered #anon answer time #bobby nash #athena grant #hen wilson #chimney han #maddie buckley #evan buckley#eddie diaz #I’m p sure there isn’t anything else to add to Chim or eddie #and honestly w any of them #I wouldn’t put it past the show to suddenly change their ages to be whatever the writers need #so I’m gonna clarify #THESE ARE THEIR AGES AS FAR AS I KNOW AS OF RN JUNE 5 2021 #if they change them in the future I’m sorry I was just going off the info I had right here right now #anyways lots of love!

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starchasertonight · 5 years

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Kadena Season 4 Predictions

People have been asking for my kadena predictions pretty much since s3 ended, and I said that I needed to give it some thought. Well now I have and I’ve also obviously been aware of Nikohl’s absence in Montreal for s4 filming so far. A couple weeks ago, I came up with a theory that I still find pretty compelling, and I’m now thinking may be valid since Wendy has confirmed Nikohl will be on set very soon. So, some background to set the stage for why I’m predicting what I’m predicting:

The two most common sentiments that I’ve seen shared with TBT staff and on twitter are “I just want kadena to be happy again” and “I want more Adena.” People are tired of the angst and the ways kadena was never really given a real chance, and people are tired of missing Adena screen time. So, already from the get-go, the season 4 team was faced with a choice-- bring back Adena ASAP, but have more angst, or bring back Adena a little later, and launch the next chapter of kadena from a less angsty place. I think they’ve chosen the latter, and I think it’s a good decision.

So, some structural stuff. Season 4 is going to have 18 episodes, likely with a mid-season cliffhanger and mini-hiatus. The writing staff has joked that TBT’s flexibility and inconsistency with their timeline is going to be obvious this season. I think s4a (eps 1-9) is going to take place over a more condensed period of time than s4b (eps 10-18). We already know that s4 picks up immediately where s3 left off, dealing with the aftermath of Scarlet’s controversial fall issue. They may very well take two whole episodes just to deal with the Scarlet situation. My prediction is that the entirety of 4a will take place in less than two months.

Now, consider where kadena left off in s3. Kat has been in a major season of growth and developing an inner sense of confidence; she knows she’s getting close to an important milestone of development but she’s not quite there, and she knows that trying to go back to Adena right now will undo the progress. Adena has been living in Paris, and was visiting NYC for 2-3 weeks. While there, she has been offered a job as Scarlet’s new in-house photographer. They are both in tears over the predicament this leaves them in. The sooner they see each other again, the more their s4 story will be starting from a place of more angst.

It is not uncommon in the US for onboarding at a professional job to take 1-2 months; i.e. sometimes it can be 1-2 months between when they say you’re hired and when you actually show up for your first day of work. Adena’s stuff is still all in Paris. She probably has to file new work visa paperwork demonstrating her new employment. And that’s not even including the huge shake-ups at Scarlet that are probably going to delay the onboarding process of any new hires. Basically, it is totally plausible for Adena to be gone the first several episodes of s4, especially since with how kadena left things, they are not going to intentionally see each other any time soon. kat is not going to see adena until she shows up for work at scarlet.

Now, TBT could have swept all this aside, expected the audience to suspend disbelief about the process and have Adena start right after Scarlet’s issues are resolved. Say, in episode 3. But if they did that, kadena would start with angst again. And the writers would have to show a progression from active angst, to light discomfort, to awkward friendliness, to shy flirting, to dating again-- with convincing pacing. And it drags out Kat’s growth arc because it’s way harder with Adena still around.

Or, they could follow the natural logic of Adena not starting her job for a few weeks, and not have her show up again until episode 7 or so. It’s totally plausible, especially with how TBT moves, that Kat will have reached some internal resolution during this time. Which creates space for a different dynamic when Adena returns. Instead of “fuck, Adena’s here and I want to cry”, it can be “fuck, Adena’s here and after everything I still want her.”

In theory, the last third of 4a could be this charged flirty re-connection of kadena, with the mid-season finale being them kissing again, or one asking the other out, or anything else that sets up a new relationship arc for 4b. Overall, kadena would still have a significant s4 story with screentime, because they’d have the tail end of 4a, and then all of 4b. This also makes sense for balancing the romance arcs of each of the trio. Jane and Sutton have more immediate storylines to resolve that will likely dominate the front end of 4a and then clear out a bit and make room for more kadena later. (Jane and Ryan resolving or not the aftermath of the cheating situation, and then Richard potentially moving to SF and them starting a long-distance relationship.)

What I’m less sure about is 4b. There’s two different ways it could go. Either way I think it’s going to involve happy kadena together and interesting storylines.

Route 1: A time jump occurs after 4a. And/or the end of 4a is “I’m ready again, I’m in this with you.” AKA this route involves 4b picking up with kadena as girlfriends and fully in a relationship again. 4b will have various storylines related to them being in a relationship.

Route 2: Less time passes, and/or the kadena connection at the end of 4a is more tentative. In this route, 4b involves a slow-burn of them dating, taking things slowly this time, and eventually becoming girlfriends again some time in to 4b. This would have more of a storyline of a new (but for them second chance) romance and what it looks like for them to date.

Most shows would go with route 1, and it’s happened time and again for wlw pairings. They kiss, then when they resume they’re settled in a relationship. We never really get to see a wlw pairing in its early stages with the dating. TBT could go in either direction. Personally, I would way prefer route 2. I think it makes more sense for kadena. And it would be this gorgeous parallel of all the slowness and exploration they didn’t get the first time. I could see them, especially Kat, wanting to ease into things and take it more slow this time. And I think Adena would recognize how that’s healthier for them in the long run. It would also leave some room, if there were to be a season 5 of this show, for s5 to explore more established relationship storylines and not have to contrive drama since they’ve already been in a relationship in s4. Or, if they don’t get renewed again, it still leaves kadena in a good place and in a relationship at the season’s end. Narratively, it’s a way more compelling full-circle sort of parallel to their s1 journey that way. But you never know, they may go route 1 to appease fans or for other storytelling reasons.

But my prediction is this for 4a, and one of these two routes for 4b.

#tbt predictions #tbt s4

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mittensmorgul · 4 years

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I'm confused - aren't there 20 eps in the final season? But I keep season people saying ep 8 is the midseason finale? Shouldn't that be ep 10?

The midseason finale is based on the network broadcast schedule, and not the “halfway point” of the season. Historically, that’s fallen anywhere from episode 8 to episode 11, based on the airing schedule, when the season began, how many episodes were pushed back a week for a holiday or other scheduling conflict, etc. This is something the writers would know when they arrived in the writing room to structure the season-long arcs, it’s just a fact of writing for episodic television that the Big Story Beats will necessarily hang around the airing schedule this way, and not always split into exact numerically equal bits.

For example, last season, with 20 episodes, the midseason finale was episode 9, and we returned in January with episode 10. It was the same in s13, which had 23 episodes– episode 9 The Bad Place was the midseason cliffhanger with episode 10 Wayward Sisters the first episode back in January. The fact the season had more episodes had no bearing on when this break happened. It doesn’t need to happen at the technical midpoint of the season.

For reference:

22 episode seasons:

s1 Midseason finale: 1.10 Asylums2 Midseason finale: 2.09 Croatoan

s3 was the outlier, writers-strike shortened to 16 episodes. When they went on strike in November, they already had 12 episodes filmed with no certainty of there ever being any more. The Midseason Finale was 3.08 A Very Supernatural Christmas, but the HOPE was that the strike would be over quickly and they’d still be back to work in time to write a full 22 episode season. That didn’t happen, obviously, but by that time they were lucky to have four more episodes to bring the season to a conclusion. A lot of shows didn’t survive the strike, but Supernatural did. Thank heck!

s4 midseason finale: 4.10 Heaven and Hells5 midseason finale: 5.10 Abandon All Hopes6 midseason finale: 6.11 Appointment in Samarra

Then the show moved to a 23 episode season:

s7 midseason finale: 7.10 Death’s Doors8 midseason finale: 8.09 Citizen Fangs9 midseason finale: 9.09 Holy Terrors10 midseason finale: 10.09 The Things We Left Behinds11 midseason finale: 11.09 O Brother Where Art Thous12 midseason finale: 12.08 LOTUSs13 midseason finale: 13.09 The Bad Place

The we moved to the 20 episode season:

s14 midseason finale: 14.09 The Spears15 midseason finale: 15.08

The writers structure their overarching narrative so that Big Plot Developments happen in these episodes (typically, some are more cliffhanger-y than others). Regardless, between the midseason finale and the second half premiere (typically mid-January), what we typically get is a turning point moment for the season. That’s just how narratives work.

Just looking at Dabb era (starting in s11, because Dabb wrote 11.10, the first episode of the second half of the season, and I believe he unofficially began steering the narrtive from that point forward, if not earlier), in 11.09 we ended with Sam trapped with Lucifer in the fake Cage in Hell, Dean having been zapped away before Heaven attempted to smite Amara, and Cas... suspiciously missing from the story >.>. 11.10 picked up right from that moment and sent us spiraling into the second half of the season (Casifer, Rowena apparently dead, Amara directly threatening everything) and laid out the Major Plot Situations that would need to resolve by the end of the season.

12.08 ended with Kelly on the run from Cas, and Sam and Dean being whisked away in secret by black ops types to who knows where. 12.09 showed us Sam and Dean escaping from the secret prison as well as setting up the Mary/BMoL arc for the second half of the season, as well as introducing the tension of the Cosmic Consequences Cas faced from breaking Dean’s deal with Billie, and established the Winchesters as Cas’s family who he’d do anything for.

13.09 ended with the rift opening, Sam and Dean tossed into The Bad Place world, Jack tossed into the Apocalypse AU at Mary’s feet, and Kaia unconscious by the roadside, and a bunch more angels dead... 13.10 picked up with the Wayward Sisters saving the day and setting up the Big Question for the rest of the season... how to rescue Mary and Jack from the Apocalypse AU.

14.09 ended with Michael!Dean and the rest of TFW and the whole planet in immediate danger, and 14.10 began with the mission to save Dean and demonstrated the precarious situation of Jack vs burning off his own soul, setting up the rest of the season’s Major Threats.

Like those seasons, I suspect 15.08 will end with a Major Confrontation with Chuck, or at least some other sort of Massive Peril for TFW, and 15.09 will return with them getting a partial win but also establishing the major problems they will still have to overcome by the end of the season.

When writers know they’re going to have a month or more between episodes, they try to leave the story on a big moment of tension like this. Just because it doesn’t fall at the mathematical midpoint of the season doesn’t change the fact that the major story beats happen in these episodes.

#Anonymous #this is how stories work #the vagaries of television production

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avalonsilver · 5 years

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Supernatural questions

SPN Questions Game!

I was tagged by @lovedsammy

Thank you! I appreciate it. Sorry this took so long. It was fun answering the questions though. :-)

1. When did you start watching Supernatural? The night the show first premiered on Sept. 13, 2005 (according to Google). I knew Jensen and Jared from other shows (more recently at that time, Jensen's recurring role on Smallville and then Jared on Gilmore Girls) and was curious. Sci-fi/fantasy is a fav genre for me, so Supernatural seemed right up my alley (the horror/gory aspects sometimes was a little much for me, but the character dynamics keep me watching). I watched the show regularly for the first five seasons. What got me to fall in love with the show was a small scene in the first episode. (rest under the cut)

That was when Dean answers Sam's belief about Dean doing this alone [find their Dad] with a "Yeah, well, I don't want to." The way this line was delivered by Jensen... it just showed a vulnerability in Dean. It showed what sort of character Dean was -- that he needed, wanted his brother by his side. That moment left me wanting to learn more about Sam and Dean, and I cared about their journey in each episode. After the Season 5 finale, I stopped watching the show regularly. I watched the first few eps of Season 6 I believe, but they failed to hold my interest. Not enough Cas I guess (I loved him in Seasons 4 and 5 and his character development in those two seasons). I randomly watched a few Season 7 episodes when they aired (the one with Charisma Carpenter & James Marsters (7x05) and the Eliot Ness episode (7x12)). I was wondering where Cas was at as I didn't really know then what had happened to him. Finally, about five years later, when Season 13 was airing, I fell back into watching the show. I saw War of the Worlds 13x07 live without much of an idea of what had gone on in the show in the last few years. So I had no idea that Sam and Dean now called this bunker their home. It was certainly an experience watching that episode being pretty confused about things. The mid-season finale/"The Bad Place" really peaked my interest that I should catch up with this show again. Jack got me curious. I ended up watching the Season 13 finale live.

Over the summer, I binge-watched the seasons I missed post-Season 5. I watched the episodes I missed in Season 13 first. Then I went through Seasons 6, 9, 10 and 11 (still working on Season 12- finished through 12x08). With Seasons 7 & 8, I mainly watched the episodes where Cas appeared (with S7, that made the season go fast for me since he was only in five episodes... I did see 7x03 though because of Colin Ford. He is my favorite version of "young Sam"... and catching up with the show, it was a nice surprise that he returned in Season 7). I am planning to see those S7 & 8 episodes I skipped over-- feel kind of bad for not watching those seasons completely.

2. Who is your favorite in TFW? Castiel -- I looked forward to his scenes back in Seasons 4 and 5. His journey since then has been interesting to watch. While his development in Season 6 was hard to see unfold, I see it as the unfortunate fallout from averting the apocalypse. It was a win that TFW stopped the apocalypse particularly through Sam's sacrifice. But sadly, Cas's desire to prevent Apocalypse Take 2 from happening caused him to go to dark places -- leaving TFW fractured. I think his experience as a human was one of the best things that happened to him-- it really helped him be more compassionate and understanding-- or just really bring out what Cas already had inside him. I still prefer him to be an angel though (I have a weakness for "superpowers"...like the glowy eyes/healing...). But I appreciate that Cas did experience being human and learned something valuable from that.

3. Who is your least favorite in TFW? Dean, although it's hard to choose a least favorite. Each one has their good and bad traits. Dean's harsh treatment of Jack in Season 13 is not something I can brush aside completely. So that's why Dean comes to mind. Dean has gotten better with Jack, true, but his early S13 handling of Jack while Sam pleaded with Dean to give Jack a chance is still hard to forget.

4. Tag your top 5 Supernatural blogs. (I think most everyone has done these questions, so below are just the Supernatural blogs I like checking out) Let’s see… I tag: @hallowedbecastiel, @lovedsammy @flightoftheseraph, @soluscheese, @castielisourhero, @sastiel-daily, @canonspngifs

5. Who is your favorite character (not including TFW)? Bobby Singer, although I guess he can be considered an honorary member of TFW. I have not seen the episode where he dies (7x10), but I plan to and I know it'll leave me teary-eyed I'm sure. But seeing the episodes where he returns in some capacity (10x17 "Inside Man" -- so much love for that episode, and 11x16 "Safe House") got me really emotional. That letter to Sam in 10x17, and Dean figuring he and Bobby were there at the same time in that house thanks to some time-wimey explanation... it just made me wish Bobby was still alive. He was really like a father to Sam and Dean and it'll certainly be hard to watch those early seasons with Bobby -- knowing now that he's gone. At least he's in Heaven. I want to add Jack too-- even if he is a part of TFW, but technically it's TFW 2.0 for him, so he does sort of count I guess (I'm reaching here, I know, but couldn't resist). Mostly because his character got me curious and led me to watching all of Season 13 and motivating me to finally catch up with the seasons I've missed of the show. Seeing all the crap that Sam had been through with Lucifer post-Season 5 made his willingness to help Jack, Lucifer's son, all the more compelling.

6. Who is your favorite woman in Supernatural? As far as a female character who's currently still alive, Rowena is pretty awesome -- some of her outfits have been gorgeous. And there's the 13x19 scene on the phone where she flirts with Cas --"oh is the handsome angel there with you? Hello, Tweetie Pie." was amusing in how it left Cas a little flustered and off-footed in his response. Considering back at the end of Season 10, Rowena cursed him with that "attack dog" spell causing Cas some considerable misery... it's just so like the show for the pair of them to be sort of chill with one another now. Cas still doesn't quite know how to take flirtations-- it's endearing. Also, due to my summer rewatch, I really enjoyed Meg 2.0's character. I loved her dynamic with Cas and was sad when she died. I love that she saw Cas as "her unicorn." Rachel Miner did a great job with the character of Meg. I'll never forget that moment in 6x10 when Meg made out with Cas.

7. John or Mary? Mary (I haven't seen all of Season 12 and did hear her storyline had its issues, but from what I know about her, I prefer her to John). Watching the 300th episode caused me to warm up to John again. I'm glad Sam and Dean got some closure with him. I think I blame the background music sometimes used during the John moments... it got me all nostalgic and emotional. I enjoyed Mary in Season 13 and being protective of Jack -- to where she decided to stay with him even if it meant needing to leave the camp because AU! Bobby was suspicious of Jack's half-angel status. So I'll stick with Mary on this one.

8. What were your first opinions of Sam, Dean, Cas, and Jack? Sam: I thought he was a compelling character. He was like the "regular guy" character at the beginning helping to introduce the audience into the strange world of hunting the supernatural his family was a part of. I took a television course back in college, so this kind of stuff was discussed, bear with me. lol ... as the show went on, it was ironic that he was the one with psychic powers, the demon blood and was the "true vessel" for Lucifer. After playing catch up with the show post-Season 5, I feel so bad for the crap Sam has gone through particularly with Lucifer. It has been a long time for me, so I can't exactly remember my first impression of Sam. After seeing Jared on Gilmore Girls, I think I just automatically decided to find any character he played likable since I generally liked his character on Gilmore Girls. It was sad how badly Sam wanted to live a normal/safe life with Jess in the pilot but that wasn't in the cards for him.

Dean: I found his "devil may care" attitude kind of cool, but as brought up earlier, I liked that he cares about family. That he came to get Sam because he needed him by his side to search for their Dad. Even despite the big fight that was close to John disowning Sam, Dean wanted to make the effort to mend bridges. Dean took the chance that Sam would still care about their Dad's well-being despite the big fight. Or maybe Dean knew that deep down, Sam would agree to help -- as after all, Dean practically raised him so he obviously knew Sam pretty well (even if he didn't quite understand Sam's strong desire to head to university and try for an "normal apple pie life.")

Cas: He was a big part why I was excited for Seasons 4 and 5 when they were airing. Although in retrospect, he didn't really have a lot of scenes in S4 &5. I just ended up being grateful for what we did get back then. I liked how though seemed alien in his first appearance and interaction with Dean, there were hints that Cas did care and wasn't a cold, unfeeling angel. Like I couldn't quite hate him completely for burning out Pamela's eyes even though I wanted to initially. Cas just seemed a little regretful about that, so I could see sparks of opportunity for character growth. I need to rewatch the scene again, but I vaguely recall Cas looked sad/regretful about Pamela's fate. And when he told Dean, "You don't think you deserve to be saved,"-- the way the line was delivered got me even more curious about Cas. Then his end of episode appearance in 4x02 freaked me out a bit because he was intense there. But honestly, during most of that 4x02 scene, I was bothered by his lips being dry/cracked... why I still remember this after all these years, IDEK. Still wish someone had given him some chapstick or something then. lol

Jack: The first episode I saw him in was the mid-season 13 finale. I was interested in Jack and learning more about him... I'm sure it would have been better if I'd seen those earlier Season 13 episodes to understand Jack better. I really enjoyed how everything went down in 13x09 and how climactic it ended up being. The last shot of Jack in "Apocalypse World" with him looking up at Mary in a cage was a well-done shot. After seeing 13x01, I liked Jack's curiosity about the world and his love of nougat. He seemed like a sweet and caring person and eager to please.

9. What’s your favorite season? Season 1. It was when I first started watching and was just a pretty solid season overall. The cliffhanger was evil, but hell, that really got me on the board to continue with this show. Plus, the memorable lines --"driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cakehole", "hope your apple pie was freakin' worth it!" and I loved the moment of Dean bringing peanut M&Ms as one of his provisions in 1x02 "Wendigo" (and they did prove useful in the end in tracking him down). It's tempting to say a season with Cas too because I like his character. With Cas, probably Season 10 since I enjoyed his interactions with Claire. Also, I love 10x17 so much (just made me miss Bobby and that end montage is an automatic rewatch for me). Although Season 4 was good too with Castiel's introduction. I like how his character developed to the point where he was prepared to fight off archangels to stop the apocalypse. Even if this defied the other angels wanting the apocalypse to come to fruition. Honorary mention to Season 13 mostly for the journey of Sam and Jack's father-son bond. I always love seeing tributes to that bond and the support Jack received from Sam.

10. What’s your least favorite season? Season 7, but then again I haven't seen the entire season yet. From what I saw of the Leviathans, I didn't like them as villains. But Leviathan!Cas was pretty awesome-- he definitely freaked me out for the brief time the Leviathan took him over. Just a shame that the Leviathan after that were just kind of meh... For a season I saw entirely, I'd have to say Season 6. Though Castiel had some great moments in this season (6x20 of course being a highlight), it hurt to see Cas turn against Sam and Dean. Yes, Cas was doing all that to stop Apocalypse 2.0, but I hated that he resorted to breaking Sam's wall (leaving Sam a mess into Season 7). Also, the first half of the season with soulless!Sam was weird to watch... since Sam wasn't himself and knowing that was sad. I enjoyed the episode 6x11 where Dean made a deal with Death to get Sam's soul out of the cage. So yeah, I liked some parts of Season 6, but overall, it's not easy to rewatch knowing this is the unfortunate fallout of averting the apocalypse in Season 5. Back in the day-- for just Seasons 1 through 5, I'd say Season 3...the season had its moments, but it just ranked lowest for me in terms of the first five seasons. Although S3 gets points for one cliffhanger of an ending.

11. Opinions on Destiel? I used to be big on Destiel, or just Dean and Cas's friendship/strong bond in Seasons 4 and 5. Maybe my enthusiasm for them just faded away over time... after catching up with the show recently, my perspective has changed. I can't completely get over Dean's treatment of Cas at the end of Season 7 after he'd taken on Sam's hell trauma leaving him broken and not mentally stable. Dean yelling at Cas more than once was frustrating to see during this time. I just can't get into Dean x Cas as much as before... though Cas sticking around and still being Dean's friend, helping him and Sam out, does speak a lot to Cas's ability to forgive... not to stay angry with Dean after some of the things Dean has said to him and put him through (such as kicking him out of the bunker in 9x03 without any offer of assistance so Cas wouldn't continue to be homeless... I can understand why a lot of people didn't like 9x03).

12. Do you believe Supernatural queerbaits? No. t's nice that Dean can have a solid, meaningful friendship with someone who isn't Sam... so it's good that he has Castiel. But the moments where it seems like it's leading to something more than friendship for Destiel... I think it just shows the strength of their friendship.

13. Seasons 1-7 or 8-14? Seasons 8-14 -- mostly because I liked Cas's character development in the later seasons. That he's more compassionate, maybe more human -- his short time as a human influencing him in a good way for the most part. Even if his angelic powers were diminished in the later seasons.

I miss his teleporting (I had grown used to the "rustle of wings" sound effect in Seasons 4 and 5), and to learn he'd lost that ability for a few years already by the time of Season 13 -- that was sad to know. Despite that loss, I like that Cas has become more expressive -- like in the 14x12 scene where he's discussing "Rowena's remarkable command of profanity" on the phone to Sam -- The line delivery and his facial expression was on point there.

14. Favorite villain (plot wise)? Crowley. He had some great moments on the show, and it was great to see his journey on the show. From full-on antagonist to sort of being on Team Winchester. I don't like that he killed Meg 2.0 (I miss her :(), but he was a compelling character and it's sad that he's not on the show anymore.

15. Do you think they should end the Lucifer plot line? Yes!

16. Who do you think has gone through more trauma (Sam, Dean, or Cas) Sam. They all have gone through their share of trauma, so it's not easy to just choose one. But Sam has been tortured by Lucifer himself, and still suffers PTSD from that every time he has to deal with Lucifer.

17. What’s your favorite Supernatural episode? 1x12 - "Faith" -- I have a fondness for some Season 1 episodes. Asylum was another fav for me along with Home and Something Wicked. At the time that “Faith” aired, I was big on hurt!Dean, and this episode delivered. I loved how determined Sam was to save his brother. This was still back when some great classic rock songs were used. The "Don't Fear the Reaper" song playing while Sam and Dean carried out their plan to stop the reaper was pretty epic. And looking back, boy, do I miss those days when iconic songs like that were used on the show. 18. Do you like case episodes? Yes -- I like seeing how the mystery unravels, and finding out who the culprit is in the end.

19. Who do you relate most to in TFW? Sam. Mostly due to his love/appreciation of research. I like to research too and learn new things. Also, he's the younger sibling, which is the same for me. I can relate to his frustration with his dad -- though it was for different reasons, I've felt similarly-- just different personalities and perspectives clashing, I would say.

20. Why do you like Supernatural? I like Supernatural because of the brotherly bond between Sam and Dean. Sam and Dean was what first drew me to the show and I still enjoy seeing the twists and turns they go through -- and I appreciate the moments that strengthen their bond and get emotional and heartbroken when they're divided. At the end of the day, I feel Sam and Dean are the heart and the soul of the show -- my hope for the end of the series is that the brothers' bond is as strong as ever. I would be so sad if they end the show with Sam and Dean at odds with each other-- I have faith the writers wouldn't do this -- it would be hard to watch (like back in 4x21 where they fight each other and go their separate ways... it was painfully heartbreaking to see). Also, I love Team Free Will -- it's nice that Sam and Dean have Cas now as a long-time friend and confidante. I like Jack and the more recent Team Free Will 2.0 that formed to include him. Though the original Team Free Will is more iconic, I guess, for me since it formed as the apocalypse approached in Season 5. And the name really had a meaning: that Sam, Dean and Cas weren't going to fold and follow what the higher up angels wanted... that their free will mattered more than following their long foretold destinies.

21. If you could bring back one character and kill off another who would they be? I'm torn between bringing Bobby back or Meg 2.0. I'd kill off Lucifer (if he is really woken up in the Empty -- he needs to be put down again. :\). I'd like Kevin Tran to come back. I would be okay with killing off AU! Bobby if we can get the old Bobby back. And Meg 2.0 being brought back would be great-- I miss her interactions with Cas.

#supernatural questions #supernatural discussion #supernatural characters #tagged #long post #text post #tumblr ask #answer

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sol1056 · 6 years

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season release & demographics

Alright, I’ve gotten several asks about the speed of the upcoming season releases for DW/Netflix. Most asks amount to roughly

are they releasing that fast because they want it over, or because more stuff is coming?

...with at least two asks attempting to make sideways snarky comments about the revelation of a canonically gay character.

Behind the cut: some stats on how DW groups and broadcasts its series, some data-based theories on VLD’s scheduling, who the ‘real’ audience demographic is, and some speculation about show timing independent of VLD itself.

how DW groups and broadcasts its series

First thing I should note is that dropping a chunk of episodes at once onto Netflix is relatively new for DW, compared to their years of traditional weekly syndicated format on Nick, CN, etc. (You can find a list of all past and present television productions here.) Starting around 2014, their Netflix/DW works were mostly the usual children’s fare -- episodic shows made for syndication.

Two shows changed this game: VLD and Trollhunters, both premiering in 2016. Each contain one continuous arc, requiring viewing in order, from the start. Unfortunately that means the only real comparison is Trollhunters, which had a 12-month gap between S1 and S2, and a 5-month gap from S2 to S3. Just before the final season broadcast, DW announced two sequels, which brings TH’s total ep count to 78. Remember that timing; it’ll be important in a bit.

Looking across even the episodic younger-set stories, it does seem like releases try to stick to a general pattern, give or take a month. Across 8 multi-season shows, here’s the breakdown of cours (because you know I had to throw a visual in somewhere). A single cour is 11-14 episodes, 5-7 eps is a half-cour, with 26 being a double-cour. (One series released a 16-ep season, which I counted as a single cour.)

I point this out just to make clear that half-cour drops are actually rather common, comparatively. Out of 31 episodes, 11 were half-cour. As for the length between seasons, the mode (most common) is 7 mos.

some theories on VLD’s scheduling

Now let’s look at the gaps between VLD’s seasons: 7, 7, 2, 5, 3, 2 (counting the upcoming release for S7). If we merge the half-cour seasons for comparison (so we’re dealing with consistent 13-episode seasons again), then we’ll posit the broadcast date would’ve been the date the 2nd half of the season aired. In other words, had we gotten the original S3 (now S3/S4) season as one, it would’ve aired on S4′s broadcast date, as one solid chunk.

With the consistent pattern of S1 through S3′s data, that’s a 7-month break between seasons. Assuming that this would’ve originally been set as the scheduled dates, let’s compare those dates to the actual broadcast dates.

scheduled Jun 2016 ==> aired Jun 2016

scheduled Jan 2017 ==> aired Jan 2017

scheduled Aug 2017 ==> aired Aug + Oct 2017

scheduled Mar 2018 ==> aired Mar + Jun 2018

scheduled Oct 2018 ==> aired Aug 2018

scheduled May 2019 ==> aired ???

Yes, I’m aware DW spun the split-seasons as getting more episodes, sooner. It’s the reverse. We should’ve gotten all of S3 in August, but S3 was completed 2 months late. Same for S4, which we should’ve gotten in March, but compared to the original schedule, S4 was 3 months late. S7 (the original S5) is the first time we’re getting anything ahead of schedule, 2 months earlier.

If we go by the usual pattern of 7 mos gaps -- and counting from the actual broadcast date of Aug 2018, that would put the concluding 13-ep drop at May 2019. However, at least two other series have dropped their final seasons with a much smaller gap: from 8 down to 3, 12 down to 5.

Which means that dropping S8 (the original S6) in December would be a gap of 4 months from S7′s broadcast, or alternately, a 2 month gap from the original schedule. That’s pretty dramatic, compared to half the time, which would’ve put us at March of 2019.

why the last season comes so fast

When Dawn of the Croods dropped its final season, it came with the announcement that this would be its last. When Trollhunters dropped its final season, it simultaneously announced that two sequels were in the works. And check this out, with hat-tip to @ptw30 for the sharp eyes:

Voltron’s got a film in development, and it’s under the aegis of the Dreamworks Animation team. (Oddly, that ‘S’ notation comes with a note saying the film will combine live-action with animation. I have no idea whether that means rotoscoping or actual live-action with lots of CGI.)

My guess is that on, around, or shortly after the final season of VLD drops, we’ll get an announcement about the upcoming film that will attempt to build on the series. That’s a matter of timing, though, so it’s just my guess (and things can change).

the ‘real’ audience demographic

When asks make comments about VLD being unsatisfactory to the ‘primary demographic’ (and doubly so now that we’re talking about a canonically gay character, cue asshat-sounding commentary about gay hookups)... the assumption is almost always that the primary demographic is men. Probably men aged 18-30.

Wrong. It’s women. Specifically women between 25 to over 50.

But since this is supposedly a for-kids show, let’s start with appealing to families. There are 73.7 million children under 18, and 69% of them are in two-family households. 23% of those children live in single-mother households. (The largest growing family demographic is gay families. Go ahead, explain to me why a kid watching television shouldn’t see a role model in a relationship like their parents have.)

Guess who does the majority of the buying choices for families? Women.

A few facts about women as a market, in the US: the estimated purchasing power of US women ranges from $5 trillion to $15 trillion annually. Women control more than 60% of all personal wealth in the U.S., and 75% are the primary shoppers for their families. Women are buying 66% of all tech purchases, 65% of all car purchases, 89% of all bank accounts opened, 93% of all food purchased, and 92% of all vacation expenditures.

Oh, and while I’m at it:

45% of all gamers are women.

Women over 55 spend more time gaming online than men aged 15-24.

Also, millennial women (roughly early 20s to mid 30s) have 3.4 social media accounts on average, compared to 2.6 for GenX women; 61% of them are online and sharing content at least once a day. However, Gen-X women spend more time onine (7+ hrs/week) than Millennial women (6hrs/week). And then there’s Boomer women --- of the age to have seen Voltron when it first aired --- with a market share of $19 trillion. They tend to spend, on average, 250% more than any other bracket -- which is pretty phenomenal buying power when you consider that every fifth adult in the US is a woman over 50.

A show pays for itself with merchandise and toys --- and if you can swing the women’s market, you’ve got it made, ‘cause they’re ones doing the buying. That means appealing to mothers who make the vast majority of their household’s purchases, or women up to and including the over-50 gamer pop-culture-savvy women with spare income (who are also the fasting growing online demographic, while we’re at it).

So, miss me with that 'primary demographic’ crap. If it doesn’t appeal to boys but appeals to women 25-50+, it’ll do fine. The reverse --- of appealing to boys but not to women --- is a visual media that’ll be lucky to break even. DW hasn’t made it this far by alienating the ones who are making the purchases. If they realized that Shiro appeals most to women aged 25 to 50+ (which he does; he’s that age bracket’s favorite character) then you damn well better believe they’re going to keep him front and center.

why else dreamworks might be wrapping up

There are other factors in play. In 2013, DW partnered with Netflix for the first time, and since then it’s produced 16 series for Netflix. Only two series were exempt, one broadcast in France, the other on Amazon video.

Of the 9 series currently in pre-production, 4 will be on Netflix (She-Ra, 3 Below, Wizards, and Fast & Furious). The remainder are broken up between Amazon, cable TV, Universal, and two most recent that don’t even have homes, yet. Dreamworks is moving out of Netflix, excepting the pre-existing contracts they can’t quite break.

This is the result of net neutrality, to be perfectly blunt.

Check out who owns whom, here. (Larger version at recode.net.)

Comcast owns Dreamworks, and a 30% stake in Hulu -- of which Netflix is a direct competitor. I’m on AT&T and already noticing throttling happening for Netflix, and at some points for Tumblr (Verizon-owned). Scuttlebutt says DW is going to be pushed into moving its content onto Hulu, to support its parent company’s business agenda.

*** ETA: there is no good business reason (at this time) for DW to switch to Hulu. Netflix’s market share is easily ten times the size of Hulu, and switching will cut DW’s products off from a significant number of viewers. ***

That means DW is probably being strongly encouraged to wrap up its Netflix contracts and start shifting to Comcast-owned or controlled markets. And that has nothing to do with VLD itself, or even how popular (or not) that it’s been on Netflix. It’s a command coming down from on high, and now that we’ve lost net neutrality, there'll be less and less gain from sticking with Netflix.

#vld #voltron #doing the data cronch #analysis #popular media

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