I think we gotta start recognizing that "things accepted online/in leftist spaces" and "things accepted by the general public in the real world" are two very different things. like no actually gnc men are Not suddenly seen as okay because there are drag queens on tiktok. men are still beaten and harassed and ostracized and Killed for being feminine. in the us. in my very liberal city full of ppl with blue hair and pronouns I am made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome for being a gnc guy. the tiktok comments on videos of men wearing make up are not indicative of the beliefs of most people

hiii so english isn't my first language and i'm learning more about gender and trans stuff and if i might be trans or something (i've been told i sound agender?? but that feels wrong), and something that confuses me, so i'm asking around abt it… "woman" used to simply denote afab, right? like a body type of ppl with a biological (not surgical) vagina & estrogen puberty. like a female dog. ppl say that it reduces women to their genitals, but what about with other animals? like female cat, female horse, etc, just bc we say "oh she's a girl" or "oh i have a male dog" doesn't mean we're saying they're only their genitals in that case, right…? a bitch is just a female dog, that's why it's a misogynistic word. misogyny is based on how ppl see someone without a penis as lesser, bc they don't have the power to forcibly penetrate and feel genital pleasure for it, they can't impregnate, they're "just a hole" etc. like so much of misogyny is just body-specific. the misogyny transfems experience seems terrible but also conditional? bc if they're found out to be amab they're treated as creepy men, so they then stop experiencing misogyny, they just face usually homophobia. meanwhile bio women (and transmascs who don't transition) have no exit door to the misogyny unless they transition and pass perfectly as male or something, and historically that wasn't an option. to me man & woman have always been neutral body types until i came across trans stuff, and i think the idea of gendered brains sounds sexist af. like gender seems like bullshit, i see me being a woman as just like being a female cat, i don't have ~womanly~ vibes in my brain, i was just born female and that's the least important thing about me, but male society made it weird. why should gender continue to be a thing? what does gender actually mean, if sexism was to be eradicated? is it bad if i view my womanhood as just a body type? most cis people i've talked to view their "gender" like this, as just a body type, like any other animal. they don't "feel" like one, they just have the body and aren't dysphoric about it. they might not always like it, but they don't have dysphoria about it, so they just… are. is that transphobic? i've heard mixed thoughts about it from trans ppl & activists, i'm just curious. feel free to ignore this lol ;;

first of all you, can define your gender however you want and there's no need to put a label on yourself, you can just be you and thats enough. You can view yourself however you desire, there's no thought police.

second of all, gender identity was made up by humans and I doubt animals give a damn, call them whatever you want for all I care.

Also I don't think im qualified to speak out about misogyny and transphobia tbh. I have experienced both but I doubt it was to the same extent as others. Also I know nothing about the transfem experience as you can guess

hi! this is a question about pansexuality that i fear asking. tbh i don't really care what anyone identifies as. everyone's part of my community to me. i am trying to wrap my head around bi v pan stuff as someone who is neither. i know bisexuals who are critical of the pan label because to them it distinguishes bisexuality as starkly Not being pansexuality. when definitions of bisexuality have included "attraction regardless of gender, or to all genders (and including trans and nb people)" for many bisexuals since like the 70s which is how i see pansexuality defined a lot of the time

i know that bi and pan have always been concurrent labels and they have a lot of overlap and that some ppl use them interchangeably. and i truly don't care that ppl id as pan. but i do feel weird seeing it juxtaposed to definitions of bisexuality that aren't inclusive of all bisexuals? (ie that bisexuals aren't attracted to ALL genders, just two or more.. when many bisexuals Are attracted to all genders! part of bisexual history is that people have been fighting to let others know Bisexuality is more inclusive than the literal like latin meaning of bi = two). i don't know where to stand on this divide. i love pansexuals and the pan label and the right to self determination in identity but i do understand the argument that it feels hurtful in a biphobic way to say it is inherently a distinct sexuality from being bisexual when it's. like. many bi and pan ppl would define their sexuality in the exact same way other than a difference in specific label. i feel like people hate this opinion lmao!!! please help! even if you hate my opinion too i literally feel like i need guidance KDBDBS

Tbh I think there's a lot of historical context to this whole convo, and I don't think you're alone in being confused. And honestly given the amount of info you have, I think you're in a pretty respectable spot about it. (And I say "historical" here in the sense that I am. 25. and I'm mostly talking about the things I have either seen firsthand, or read about/heard about from others.)

So like- when I was a Young Queer, it was very common for people to define "bi" as meaning "men and women" (or even "cis men and cis women"), and thus "pan" rose to popularity as an alternative to essentially mean "everyone, including trans and nonbinary people".

This was like, early 2010's? And I'm talking about other Young Queer spaces and interactions. And you kind of have to remember that in that time, it was kind of radical to tell people not to call things "gay" if they didn't like them. Joking that people were trans (usually in terms like "lol Justin Beiber is a lesbian") was common even in progressive spaces. I was stunned when a friend of mine asserted that they were just gonna stop using the r-slur, like, at all.

So I can kind of understand why "pan" might have felt like a needed thing at the time. I think it felt like a kind of shorthand for "I'm cool with trans people", and at least from my perspective, that was something you very much needed to state back then.

I think there are a lot of people my age who, if they don't still understand "bi" and "pan" that way, at least kind of "get" where that definition is coming from. And yeah, it's ahistorical as hell! "Bi" has always been inclusive of trans people. Not to mention people have been defining it all sorts of ways for a long time now; there are a ton of definitions out there, and how the word is defined often depends on who you ask.

But then you ask: if we know "bi" is and has always been trans-inclusive, why does anyone still need the word "pan"? And I think the answer is... complicated. And extremely personal, tbh.

This happens with queer language all the time; as terms are cycled out in favor of new ones, people who've been using them hang on regardless. Sometimes they don't know the language has been updated, but usually it's more than that. Usually they have more of a personal relationship with the word, and the community, that they can't just give up in favor of a new word.

Maybe some people who do understand that "bi" is not actually a transphobic term also still view "pan" as shorthand for "I'm cool with trans people", and that's important to them. Maybe they grew up with that word, formed relationships under it, and came out with it. Maybe the pan community impacted them in some profound way, and rejecting it over shifting definitions just doesn't feel right. There could be any number of reasons.

The other part of this is that much as people have come to understand the original definition of "bi" more widely now, the definition of "pan" and "bi" both have taken on multiple definitions as well. I've seen a lot of definitions that seem to exist just to differentiate the two. For example:

Bi: attracted to multiple (but not necessarily all) genders Pan: attracted to all genders

Bi: attracted to all genders, but in different ways, or with preferences Pan: attracted to all genders essentially the same

Bi: attracted to multiple (or all) genders Pan: attraction regardless of gender

I've also seen people use "bi" as the umbrella term, and "pan" as a more specific label beneath it (often with one of those pairs of definitions).

And you mention that "bi" has a lot of different definitions and understandings- so does pan! How a person understands those words, particularly when they identify with them, is going to be deeply personal and very likely very different from the next person. I think a good rule of thumb is to assume that whoever you're talking to may just have a different definition and understanding of the word they're using than you do, and try to ask them about it if it concerns you.

it’s obviously important for ppl to criticize misogyny particularly transmisogyny in trans male communities since thats a trans community issue but if ur also tme and the only thing u ever exclusively talk about trans men for is talking abt us as bigoted misogynists (usually there’s a ‘binary’ slapped in front of it) i genuinely think you need to put the phone down go outside and remember that whatever insane misogynist guys online are saying is not a necessarily a reflection of like things adult men outside of a weird fringe group of freak transmisogynist dudes on tumblr who think the boys should get our own word JUST like the GIRLS or its NOT FAIR!! or whatever (and one coined by a fucking terf at that..) are saying, or justification for behaving weirdly about an entire diverse community of trans people.

again i do not say this to like dissuade ppl from discussing legitimate problems but like a couple points- 'binary' trans men r capable of talking about it ourselves, and we do, and we’re not the ones whose posts get shared about it. and second: if you’re only bringing us up to talk abt how shitty particularly TRANS men are you might have a problem you need to deal with? this is not a shocking statement. like at some point someone has to point it out to you and sit there and take the shit and patiently explain to you it’s that the problem comes when its literally the ONLY thing you bring us up for and act like we're not capable of talking abt this ourselves, and that its a problem how comfortable ppl r for letting ppl speak over/for us if the only similarity they share w trans men is.. an agab and not being cis (yikes!). or if theyre transmasc and male aligned in some capacity but dont have any interest in engaging with or considering themselves a part of like trans men, THEYRE the ones who need to talk abt it, bcuz the (usually 'binary') Trans Men wont (not saying those ppl cant or shouldnt but they may be treated differently for doing so)

first ppl liked using transmeds existing to throw up justification for treating us like a bigoted monolith you (uniquely) Just Dont Feel Safe Around and its normal to make assumptions abt us being transphobic especially if we don't identify by labels deemed 'safe' and Inherently More Radical, and now its pretending we all collectively cant recognize our privilege thru our intense blinding hatred of women and its up to you to save us from ourselves and beat some common sense into the inherently bigoted stupid about gender patriarchy dicksucker boys. like i dont know im tired of it when trans men being accused of only existing bcuz we want to be patriarchy bootlickers i guess is always what radfems have thrown at us, so its not like this negative perception of trans men filtered thru a supposedly progressive lense is new. a lot of adult trans men dont talk abt like particular hot shit thats discussed a lot on here rn (the 'trans misandry' shit for example) bcuz its was not a problem in the spaces we're in and we knew it was stupid as fuck right away and barely worth talking about to say 'yeah you know that thing we all know is stupid and bullshit? its stupid and bullshit'. bcuz we're not fifteen years old or weird misogynists. we have brains, don't hate women, and we dont all know and hang around the same people.

anyway dont take this post as a stand in for serious discussion and calling out misogyny (again especially transmisogyny) w other men, those posts do need to exist, i am not trying to say this stuff shouldnt be talked about. what i'm specifically pointing out is a frustrating pattern in the perception of and discussion of trans men that ppl probably dont realize theyre participating in. i do think it is very important to talk abt community issues and criticisms but if its literally the one thing you bring up trans men for i think being aware of that behavior has no NEGATIVES here. also do have to bring up i specified other tme ppl early on bcuz this isnt smth ive experienced or seen from transfems and their position as like the affected party of transmisogyny is automatically like .. if they have issues w trans men it is pretty inherently coming from a different place than like, a cis womans, or a tme nonbinary person, or a transmasc person with issues with trans men, or a cis mans, etc. tme ppl who are on a very different ground here, whose behavior is straight up different anyway

24012024

Kinda venting since Reddit is down ???

CW[ Trans stuff and kinda se*ual harrasment, I suppose]

I wanted to post this in the FTM subreddit but idk why whole Reddit seems to be down atm???

So I get like 30+ incels adding me on snapchat for the past week or two, and most of them just whine for pics or nudes. This one specific guy actually talked to me for a bit so I didn't dispose him right away. So I crack jokes at him for about three days and I think I told him that, imo, he was boring bc he just talked about how much he wanted to showe his dick into every possible hole of mine. And I tolerated this and proceeded to crack random shit at him, now he is like

'I'm boring so no boobs right?'

I awnsered 'I don't send those kind of pictures to anybody'.

-'bye then.

-'lol' then I deleted him.

Like why and when did snapchat turn into this pussy hunting game, where I'm like the unwanted prey, bc I'm not willing to send even regual pictures of my face to pussy hungry men like that. What the fuck, seriously.

The just the amount of convos that go like; they ask me, age? location? pic? And I awnser those. The convo ends when I say I'm a fucking tranny or that I don't do pics, is just way too high to find this incel carousel entertaining anymore.

Neveg mind the few times people send pics of dicks without asking if I give a shit about that OR EVEN ASKING MY AGE FIRST. Like, I could have been under age!!! wtf!!!

And this ONE discusting shit, sent me videos of his junk and proceeded to VIDEO CALL ME MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW, I told him not to do that, and when asked what his problem was, he just replied 'sex' to everything. Reported him. Not cool.

At least some just go 'ok' and ghost you after telling them they ain't getting any fun out of you or they ask if you wanna see their junk, before they just shove it into your face. Like thanks for being even that much considerate.

But for real, I feel targetted on snapchat.

Another completely different, but kind of related source of anxiety for me now, is that the another care company wants me to take part in their group things or hang out on their little HQ, and I'm not comfortable around cis-boys. I'm more comfortable being in a group with queer ppl or girls, since none of those have treated me like a sex object or tried to do things to me.

Girls usually don't give a shit about me or I think some might talk shit about me bc I'm not pretty or skinny and I dress a little weird. Queer peple are usually neutal, some even talk to me a little.

But boys... see me as a girl or an object, no matter what. This might be cause I was always put in the same box with the girls in school and most of all people I had in my life, have been women. I guess I just see them as a scary, diffirent breed now, bc the few male people I did know, treated me that way.

I just feel like I'll never fit anywhere. I hate my body. I hate that I'm so tired all the time. I hate that I cannot change things that cause me pain and the people who could do that, won't. I wish I was in a diffirent body, some one else, like a bimbo girl bc that's ehat people want, right. Or just plain dead.

I just want to be alone but sometimes it just really sucks but when I'm given a chance to be around people I remember why I can't stand being around others.

Gotta be honest. Although seth comment was disgusting and as a women myself i would never want to hear such a thing being said about me… I don’t specifically like how in such Situations, people act as if they never said anything rude/mean/disgusting being around friends.

I’m not in any way defending seth, because although i like him in snc videos (cause he is one. Of those who take investigations rather more serious), i would have to be sick in the head to say that it’s nothing… But as you said … man joke about such things in their friend group ( cause well… those are man… simple people) and ngl women do that too. Maybe not as often as men do , but you really never heard from your friends how “she wish he could just f her” , how he “had a small d” how he “was so bad that i fall asleep” , “it lasted 2 minutes” , “with such a small equipment, he won’t do much anyway”??… i am a women and believe me that I heard those things and women just as men are capable of commenting disgusting things about men, just as men do about women .

So in my very personal opinion, although the comment was disgusting and so out of place , people should stop acting as if women do not do simmilar things … this comment should never be on camera, buT i just don’t like how people who ain’t exposed to the spotlight suddenly act as if they innocent, as if they are God creatures who are in charge of judging other people, when reality is that , if their conversations with their close friends would be recorded by someone , they would be under fire just As those famous people that they hate on daily basis and yell how they should be “canceled” for that.

I am just sick of hypocrisy as a women myself. Sorry not sorry.

i didn't want to say all of this, but… yeah. i agree with you.

i think my issue is - yes, seth's comment was gross. no one is saying otherwise or trying to argue against that whatsoever. but if we're all being honest, how often are you around other men, other ppl, that say mean shit about women? and when that happens, do you call it out? bc i know for a fact i don't always do that. bc sometimes it's easier to just… side eye the person and move on. sometimes it's not worth fighting or arguing bc it can become a back and forth of "oh it's just a joke" and "no it's not bc it's harmful" and it's not worth it.

bc here's how i see it and i totally get that some WILL NOT see it this way and that's totally fine: men, to me, appear on a spectrum of least dangerous to most dangerous. the least dangerous are the ones that genuinely love women, that care for us, that do their best to call out shit when they see it. all the good stuff. the dangerous ones are the incels, the andrew tates of the world, right?

but then collectively, most men, fall in the middle. and they can go either way sometimes. these are the men worth talking to, educating - but only if that's something you want to do. as a woman, i shouldn't have to argue with others as to why our existence is important or valid or worth respecting. it's exhausting and shouldn't have to be the case. but reality is, these same middle men also live in the same society we live in. it's a patriarchal one that ALLOWS and ACCEPTS hate towards women. but bc it's so embetted in our society, most don't realize how deep it runs. so they say things nonchalantly or in a joking manner, not realizing there is a history behind those statements that stems back far enough to our oppression.

(and of course this whole argument doesn't even get into poc women and how they are treated, in just america alone, but i think you all get my gist)

i say all of this bc… i don't see seth as being the next andrew tate or some shit. while what he said was harmful and gross, it's clear there wasn't true malice behind it, at least to me. he's just another man saying another dumb thing about women. it's sad, but it's reality. same with colby "agreeing" and sam saying nothing in return. men don't call out other men most times. and to put them on this pedastal when most women don't do that to other men is a bit hypocritical.

the best we can do in situations like this is tell seth "hey what you said wasn't nice" and i think collectively most of us have done that. he's also now apologized to both kristin publicly and privately and to us (which personally i don't think he had to do in the first place but it's fine that he did it regardless). and now, we see if he actually learned anything. give him the grace to grow and be better. bc again, i don't think he's an awful man. he's just… a man.

Tw: Misogyny and discourse (pls don't feel obligated to answer this)

Ok soo Andie I feel like you are so good at giving advice and you are just such an amazingly sweet and kind person and I aspire to be like you. That being said I am just stuck in a very uncomfortable situation and I sadly can't talk about this to other ppl close to me (you'll see why).

I have a cousin brother who is staying in the same city as me, because of his Uni he sometimes comes over when he has holidays or on the weekends. There is ofc nothing wrong with that, I like that he can relax here a bit and I get to spend time with him (it's my parents house btw). Everything was fine and well but then sometimes out of nowhere he'll start acting weird (also he's a devoted andrew tate fan so....). He'll just come and say horrible things to me like how I should take care of the house (he says its a girls job to do all the work whereas men should be allowed to laze around) , force me to do his uni work and projects and belittle and humiliate me when I refuse, he lectures me about my weight and calls me a cow, he takes my things without asking and goes through my stuff and messes up my room when I go for my lectures. He's just really nasty to me in general.

My mom doesn't say anything to him and she instead scolds me. She says that he is our guest and I am overreacting. She says he has done nothing to warrant my dislike for him and that I am being very petty and unreasonable even though SHE SEES THINGS HAPPEN RIGHT BEFORE HER EYES?! We also have this very toxic culture in my family where women are expected to give everything up for men's comfort without complaining and it is our job to bend ourselves backwards to keep the peace in the household by not fighting. She says these are just normal sibling things and brothers are allowed to do all this and I am just being oversensitive.

I really don't know what to do Andie. I definitely don't hate him because he's my brother but I don't know how to handle him or my family without getting distant or fighting with them :(

Hello my love!! This is such a tough situation and I am so sorry you've been put in this spot!! I am sending you all my love and support and hoping your family cleans up its act soon, but it sounds like instead you might be waiting a while!!

I am a very direct problem approacher by nature, so I'm not sure that what I would do would work in this situation!! My first thought is that it's your house, and you can welcome him into it while still establishing boundaries. If I was in this situation, I would probably end up telling my brother once he starts in on one of those behaviors again that he can stop right now and still be welcomed in your house, or he can insist on his course of action and will have to find somewhere else to stay. It's his choice.

In his own house he can have his own rules, but in yours, your feelings and your time and your boundaries are to be respected. I would hope framing it like that gives him the idea that he's welcome in general but with options and consequences to consider, instead of him just feeling like he's allowed to be there and do what he wants. But unfortunately it does sound like this approach would still make waves in your family if he chooses wrongly, so you would have to be prepared for that.

I'm not sure if it's best to take a less direct approach (be aware this is not a strength of mine) by doing his projects so badly he does poorly in school and then feels the need to do them himself, by buying a lock and key for your room so he can't go in it when you're not there, or by keeping your house even dirtier or something so that he doesn't like being there. But again this is like, not my strength so idk how good this recommendation is.

Idk!! This feels like such a bad situation to be in and you might just have to weigh which outcome is the most bearable to you; fighting with your family for some amount of time, or feeling shitty for the amount of time you have to see your brother while he's in university.

(Also if anyone else reading this has been in this situation before or has recommendations, please give them in the replies!! I feel like I'm such a bad problem solver because I only know how to bulldoze!!)

Anyway I just want to reiterate that I feel for you and I hope you are keeping your head up! While not exactly the same as your situation, I grew up in a physically and emotionally abusive household with a very misogynistic father and so I know all too well the kind of toll gendered standards (and blindness to/deference to male figures) can take on you. I have been told I was basically born with a stick in hand and all I knew how to do was poke the bear, so that's all I can think to do now lol. But regardless of how good or bad my advice is, I am 100% there with you and supporting you with my whole heart!!

I hope you find your way out of this, and I'm happy to chat/let you vent to me if you ever need it!!!!

Honestly people’s hatred need to be directed to the rich “muslims” sitting in their mansions in western countries or in places like Saudi and Qatar and Iran that FUND Hamas. Muslims like them couldn’t care any less for the lives in palestine. They don’t care for it and couldn’t care if everyone in palestine is wiped out. I bet you anything that they’re laughing at the videos and celebrating. This is a false religion that promises reward for raping, enslaving and murdering. It directly goes against God’d word.

I refuse the have any "hate" for anyone because as a Christian, satan is the actual Enemy, but tbh, any single person calling for an escalation of this conflict (either defending the Hamas or "IsrAel hAs tHe rIghT tO dEfEnd tHemsElveD 🤪" folks) are as much reckless and ultimately damage the safety of Palestinians. At least rich Muslims stay quiet and aren't calling for the murder of anyone.

Westerners warmongering from their cozy homes that's not under the threat of being nuked overnight are despicable.

It's pretty obvious the Hamas expected a disproportionate response of Israel to amplify the martyrdom (human sacrifice) of Palestinians and leverage a support from the Muslim world.

Another thing that's despicable is how people are somehow trying to "rank" war crimes to act like either side was better/less worse.

Pro Palestine/hamas acting like because Palestianians suffering made acceptable to kill & abduct israelis

and

Pro israel acting like they had a moral ground because they didn't "decapitated babies" (this sensational rumor has yet to be proven true btw)

exhibit :

People will literally say :"I don't see a problem [cutting water & food supply to CIVILIANS]"...and still think they have moral superiority.... That's how dehumanization works : you find "good reasons" to strip people from their basic human rights. Also I always wanna to ask those people where they even draw the line to start dehumanizing people : when babies are killed? women raped? do they realize those are inherent to wars, and therefore them supporting a war makes them accomplice to those crimes??

But the thing is : there's no good answer. Killing or brutalizing ANYONE of ANY AGE/RACE/GENDER is already a moral failure.

Everytime I see people being like "oh look the Hamas raped and dragged a naked woman behind a car" I'm like: "would it be better if it was man? or if she wasn't naked?" Again : WHERE do they draw the line to start clutching their pearls at a specific murder? do these people think war is just a vibe? that because this stuff isn't shown on a camera, it doesn't happen? (yeah bc like in the screenshot, ppl genuinely think that Tsahal didn't do the same thing/war crimes somehow because it wasn't caught on tape...). Maybe they should think about it because supporting war and murder. There's no justified murder for God - a lot of so called "Christians" should understand that.

That's why I'm so SICK of radfem inserting themselves in the discourse to make it about themselves (again). There's a post floating around with a whitefem stating that Palestinians or Isralis women talking about their struggle is not White feminism, and while I totally agree with her statement, I couldn't help but roll my eyes at the usual gaslighting lf "it's WHITE MEN who accuse white women of white feminism!!!" when they don't lol. Many WOC addressed white women gaslighting and aggression and tried to explain that it wasn't misogyny but out of a legit frustration against White women racism, but White women NEVER took them into account and kept focusing on whatever crap WHITE MEN did (look how MAD White women were at the Karen meme, and how they obsessively tried to paint it as a (white) male psy-op when MANY woc entertained this meme). Which is very interesting considering how divested radfem pretend belng from male approval... It's extremely telling how White women will ultimately value White men opinions/perspective more than those WOC. I like how they really be telling on themselves while thinking they're sooo much smarter than anyone else lol

I'll NEVER forget when whitefem call Middle eastern/Arabs radfem calling out the mistreatment of Palestianians women at the border "salafists". It got so bad that one of them slid into my DM-me, a Christian lol- to thank me for defending them because those White women couldn't help but belittle them for being Muslims... But yeah, according to that whitefem it's the fault lf white men WOC have a distrust for their activism 🙃

can i ask a question, that i genuinely want to understand, about the bi lesbian label and lesbian spaces? do ppl who id as bi lesbian for different reasons believe that mono lesbians shouldn't have our own spaces, separate from bi lesbians, and that wanting them is exclusionary? (in ADDITION to shared spaces. please read on!!)

i've seen a lot of bi lesbians say it's exclusionary not to want bisexuals/pansexuals/etc in lesbian spaces, or monosexual spaces in general (and i don't mean wlw spaces that encompass all of us, or like self-described lesbian bars, cuz those are ofc actually for all wlw, even bisexuals who don't also identify as lesbians, those should always be mspec inclusive of course!!! i'm talking small support groups in lgbtq centers, stuff like that).

everyone i've personally seen so far has ignored that there are experiences of being a woman/woman aligned and exclusively attracted to women/women aligned people, to the exclusion of men, that we sometimes need to talk to other people who understand about. just like there should be spaces available for people attracted to all genders, or to multiple genders including men, that it's okay to not include monosexuals in!

as someone who fits that description, it has really helped my wellbeing to talk to other lesbians who understand those experiences, in addition to of course sharing space w mspec wlw and nblw!! i know you can't speak for everyone, but since you're a bigger blog i wanted to reach out. in your opinion, is it problematic to want to have individual spaces AS WELL AS shared spaces? would the solution just to be to clarify that they're for mono lesbians?

(i'm asking on anon cuz i'm worried about being harassed when this is published. i tried asking before and got called a bigot and vagueposted about just for asking, and my question was ignored :( i genuinely want to know the answer, or i wouldn't have sent it in!)

In my opinion, no. I think having spaces for exclusive lesbians and spaces for mono lesbians (they aren't the same thing) is fine. It gets exclusionary and bigoted, however, when:

These spaces are just called lesbian spaces. They could be called lilae lesbian spaces or rosae lesbian spaces, or be specified to be for lesbians who are exclusive with their lesbian attraction or exclusively attracted to women without the cooler but lesser known names

Those spaces say the lesbians they aren't made for aren't "real lesbians," and they want their "real lesbian spaces"

Those spaces exclude men (multigender men and men who have funky genders belong in lesbian spaces, they're not predators and they're not gonna force you to sleep with them, they've got similar experiences to you or else they wouldn't be calling themselves lesbians.)

They're made in bad faith like vixenamoric ("oh, I just feel like I don't belong in lesbian spaces anymore now that a very small amount of mspec people identify as lesbians." *still tries desperately to take away the lesbian label from people who they don't see as real lesbians*)

The need for separate spaces is used as a reason to exclude mspec lesbians from being lesbians and tell us that we're hurting them and invading their spaces

In my personal opinion as a bigender girlby, it's also bigoted if the space is labeled as mono lesbians only but includes attraction to women and elsegender people (so monosexual wow that's not enbyphobic at all /sarcasm) OR if they're labeled for exclusive lesbians and say "no mspec lesbians"/are perfectly okay with someone with my exact attraction until I dare call it bi

There has never been a problem with having separate spaces for people who are exclusive with their attraction. The problem with making lesbian spaces exclusive is that lesbian itself hadn't been exclusive for a long time. Exclusive lesbians wanted their own space and instead of making one, they took "lesbian" away from bisexuals. Nonexclusive lesbians deserve a place in lesbian spaces because it was stolen from them. Telling bi lesbians they can't be in lesbian spaces because exclusive lesbians need their own space is bullshit because it was never yours in the first place.

I'm sorry about how you were treated when you asked last time, but I think some of the reaction is due to the fact that the need for separate spaces is an bilesbophobic dogwhistle often times. Exclusive and mono lesbians do deserve spaces for them, it's why lilaen was coined and it's why I created rosaen, but that's usually not spoken of in a way that lets mspec lesbians still be lesbians, and doesn't exclude us from all lesbian spaces. It's usually spoken of in a way that tells us we're invading or taking away their spaces, invalidating their lack of attraction to men (even though a good chunk of us aren't even attracted to men), oppressing them, etc. and so many people hear that and immediately read this as an exclusionist who's dressing up what they say to be nicer. It's like when mspec people get told they're straight passing while dating someone of the opposite gender. Even if it's technically true that you'd look at them and think they were straight, that line is always used to say mspec people aren't queer enough, or that they don't belong in queer spaces if they're dating someone of the opposite gender, or they shouldn't be allowed to bring their opposite gender partner to queer events.

So, in short, no it's not wrong to have different spaces for exclusive lesbians, mono lesbians, and all lesbians, but it is wrong to just call the exclusive or mono lesbian spaves "lesbian spaces" and say mspec women don't belong.

got anything against trans lesbians Sonadow? like it's technically a form of genderbending but not doubling into sexbending, as the traditional "genderbend" does.

It doesn't really concern me what other people do, and *especially* if a trans lesbian is projecting, who am i to judge it?

Regarding sexbend/genderbend/trans headcanons. It doesn't really matter? Wording it as if changing gender while keeping the "sex" the "same" is better... when the characters' sex is never confirmed either? That implies sonic cant be a trans guy bc of the requirements for him being a trans girl.

Like i get what you mean with the ask but the wording is a little weird

Ofc i have my own opinion abt the whole thing, and as a gay man, personally, its a little weird to me when gay male aligned pairings get turned into lesbians. (Ignoring genderbend/trans stuff) (also it is still only an opinion)

The reasons are this

There already are a lot of female sonic characters, even with extremely similar dynamics. Why go out of your way to "edit" the guys for sapphic indulgence?

This is not something i'm assuming of you or possibly the person reading this, but I've seen women take male pairings and turning them into women in order to "improve" them. (Direct quote) that rubs me the wrong way because it implies gay male love is lesser.

Im not going around and taking sapphic pairings and making them into men either? (And i bet that if i did, id get called a mysoginist) If i see lesbian pairings i like, im fine with engaging with them as they are and appreciating them for being women/girls. Even as a gay man i can appreciate women/girls in love! I don't need them to be men to relate/have deeper connection??

at the end of the day though...... That's just how i feel. It should be seen in context that i personally am also projecting as a gay male aligned trans person. I personally see sonic and shadow as mirror image of my own gay relationship with my partner and thats my angle on it, seeing them as gay trans guys.

I acknowledge and approve of the possibility of trans lesbians seeing themselves in them the same way i do.

And if i see lesbian versions of gay pairings ill blacklist their url so i don't have to see it personally 🤷‍♂️ like ppl just do their things and what i, random internet user, personally like/disliked, should really not matter to them. The same way it doesn't matter to me what they do bc i'll just stay in my lane.

And that also should apply to you. Why would it matter to you what random sonadow blog thinks?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Open your heart, live and learn

And stuff

[literally have boyfriends]

stuff like this physically hurts me. There’s absolutely no reason to do this. ppl can call me a boot licker or a self hating bi but I just don't like lesbophobia. Lesbians have always let us into their spaces and supported us, I'm talking about the majority lesbian community and organizations not the one lesbian that was mean to you in high school. so when stuff like this happens it's just feels like we're backstabbing them. we’re a big group and when we never call out the lesbophobia from our own it makes us seem like we: don’t care, we support it, or we don’t listen to lesbians. I just don’t get why some of us act like letting this happen won’t ever affect us. It’s also just wrong to do this or never do anything about it. We can blame it on not having a community but that doesn’t stop you from saying homophobia is wrong. Bisexuals during the gay rights movement were even more opressed than most of us today but they still spoke out against it. You can blame it on fake bis and yeah they are homophobic but the bi community isn’t just fake bis.

I relate more with lesbians because I’m like 90% woman attracted. Even though I relate to them more I'd never call myself a lesbian because that isn’t right. Lesbians don't like men that’s it there’s no debate.

Lesbians spaces are the only places were u can escape men, and express ur attraction to women, bi spaces always turn into porny sites or center around men ahem shybi. I don’t know why but even though we’re a bigger demographic we can never create our own spaces and keep them together. A lot of bi women rely on the lesbian community. so if lesbians do decide they’re fed up with us and kick us out bi women are we’re left with bi men who are still men and are sexists and misogynistic, they also tend to be annoying edge lords. Straight people don’t care about us and even at worst hate us. The trans community is well you know. There are the mogais or queers and no thank you. OSA leaning bi women for the most part don’t care about LGB topics because it doesn’t really affect them. So now we have the smaller and much more marginalized SSA leaning bis that are on their own.

It just seems like we’re dead set on ruining our relationship with the only other group of women that understands us. I see all the mspec lesbians, polilez and how so many bi women talk about how lesbians are opressors even though it’s impossible for them to oppress us. If you ever try to call out a lesbophobic bi other bis will jump on you call you a “pick me” and blame lesbians for them being lesbophobic and I just don’t get why some of us are like this. Bi women can cope all you want but we all see lesbians getting tired of this. Being bi is already isolating but if this keeps going on it’s going to get worse.

Sorry for the rambling I just needed to vent to someone.

i agree on not understanding why many bi people don't see how this also can negatively impact bi people. i mean for one, isnt that an example of bi erasure!? i hear the term used a lot by bi ppl when it comes to like fictional lesbian characters who had any kind of past with a man, or women like sappho who some argue is bi because she wrote that shes dating a man with a name thats basically "ActualMan BigDick" or sth, among other arguments... but when it comes to actual bi people, who are saying theyre literally into the opposite sex but have a strong preference for the same sex, its just... radio silence? when frankly thats one of the biggest and most prevalent examples of bi erasure i can think of!

idk anything about shybi so i cant comment on it, but thats unfortunate if bi spaces do often turn into that. i hope that changes one day because i can't imagine such spaces feel welcoming to many bi women.

i do hope one day this lesbophobia will be a thing of the past and that we can truly group together and be allies to each other.. but honestly at this point im quite hopeless on any of it. i cant imagine reaching a solid common ground :/

There's a huge number of things happening today but this guy Trump is a big huge jerk. He's sitting there saying all this dumb things about our son and these people are saying we're telling you off we're taking you out we're grabbing your stuff you're a f****** a******then he starts it up again. There's an old story and a famous called The boy who cried Wolf and these people are using it on you without trying Trump that you're a massive massive pushover for it same with your kids you're idiots I mean what happened jackasses don't mention his name in vain and now we're going after you you'll never ever get back from the stuff you're such a freaking loser I should have listened to him and it's unbearable how dumb you are.

Thor Freya

I came by and I saw you bothering the s*** out of him like all day long you're still doing it but you're misses ladish I mean you're like this fat ass b****. Sorry computer or anything I've seen him do it for a long time and he is an a****** but I'll tell you what this kid kicked your ass so merrily your stuff is out everywhere your information is out what you have is out people after what you have you have relatively no defenses there's only after everything in the parks in the cities stuff you've taken we find things you took and they go after your people in that area and kill you I'm so glad I detached from your dumbass and fully you're such a loser and you're the only one who's attacking and working all gang up on you and get rid of you you're going to be gone and extinct we don't have time for you anymore

Ernesto Jimenez and boy are you annoying and you get plugged for it Trump

He's going to leave and today he's going to be pushed out and over and over until he doesn't come back and that guy is a damn nuisance he's going to get killed a lot too, ppl say it too his attitude is so stupid

For pursuing ships and their underground and in tunnels and so forth and Trump has a lot of ships in a New Zealand he has some big ones and people are at them already it took minutes are gone they're so sick of this prick. They're also going to get assassinated over and over and people are saying they're going to get him and they're getting ready and it's pseudo empire and VGA and BG and leather women are going after their men to shut them up so they can just get along with other people and hide cuz they won't let them hide what these guys are frustrating and frustrate people to kill them minority morlock have a huge amount of them picked out and we have a whole bunch of New York City and they're picking them out too and they're going to go after a big pile in order to take their stuff there's a few other groups they have them targeted here too or Max and they're going after the higher ups and we do as well we target tons of them and foreigners have a boatload targeted here of the trumps and where they are they're not letting them leave they're taking their stuff cuz they're in the financial districts it's a huge day he's assholes are still trying to get here and they're going to lose all of their money and everything that they have all the land tons of land and they're going to court Monday for like the final one third of their land in Florida and they lost the rest of it this weekend they're taking possession right now they're recording off huge areas in the middle and other groups are doing it too not just pseudo empire and to keep trumpsters out they're going to get this s*** kicked out of them I've never seen so many people so angry this guy won't shut his face and people are going to obliterate him he comes time to say that you are a massive massive honking loser Trump you are a disgusting pig you're so stupid you should have been killed a long time ago to put you out of your own misery but we use you and we plan to cuz you're dumb and right now your people are so greedy that they're flowing into the cities into the tunnels and dying and we're taking huge territories and all of your arm movements in the armor and weapons cuz that's what we want I don't know what the hell up is help with people I'm putting a priority on it now we're going to secure most of it maybe I think it sucks it's not that great but it's not that bad it's better than corky instead bows and arrows and shit. There's a lot of people smiling because this has been hell this guy he puts people through hell he's the top a****** is flying of living s*** out of her son and daughter they took tons of abuse from this turd who's now getting rolled and it's that's why he's getting old he won't leave him alone you won't leave alone and he's a giant he gets up and slams him down every time that stupid plus one falls right now you ain't never going to get up Trump you're all done I can see what's happening the cordoning you off you're fucked.

You managed to piss everybody off today you too idiots right around town yelling at people that are good after idiots you're yelling orders at and arresting them and they're fully loud and the sheriff's office right now they're firing 25 sure there's a sheriff is $150 and in the Charlotte county and 25 of them and there's 25 more and their Trumpsters and those are going to be fired tomorrow. We're also targeting the clones they're huge huge assholes to our son and daughter maybe he gets paraded by these coward pieces of s*** and they won't stop doing it and they're just dumb f****** grinning losers you should see how stupid this stuff is so do you realize you're dying from it yet you stupid turd in those no well you will and I don't think so you got your brains blown out cuz you keep bothering me same with this s*** in and you're going to get them blown out again f*** you're a f****** tired too tired you're a retard. Jesus Christ you people are dumb nobody goes through society is saying what you say you stupid assholes You twogroups nobody says what you say you go around saying stuff they recognize who You are if you're close they shoot you immediately now they're going to start doing the Trump.

And we were pursuing the clone ships and we're going to go after the smaller ones pretty hard we don't want them to have support yeah they're going to battle or they're done and we're taking their bombs pretty soon they'll be forced to launch and we're going to get these ships out of here and bja changing horses going to make it work and we can't stand the ship his people said you got to get off at the Dead and the freak is a moron and said all sorts of s*** and eventually they're going to get rid of him it sounds like this idiot Trump but what he's doing is stupid continues to make huge mistakes he says he has the events and it was probably the wife of Big Joe who probably left the embeds to the transformers with this asinine clan and he was ignoring and helping cuz that's what women if there's alike

Thor Freya

Olympus

So he calls me if that's love so what I am going to make this pancake house and get him money so f****** stupid that dumb b**** now the song is going to come it's going to come alive let's see what these idiots are like you don't even know what the program looks like and she admits it you don't know his style of computing I mean what's wrong with you moron I have to research this how long will it take she'll be forthrites and start threatening you with it he's doing it now she's been saying stuff so what this old languages they're ancient well it's time to go to work you look like her I can't wait

Big Joe

Now you're going to have the Giants on you Trump it's a joy isn't it

Thor Freya

That's for me Trump we're going after you I do understand what she did

Preston

Olympus

I might have misunderstood and in that case I’m sorry but..how does jm or jk liking feminine stuff regarding their appearance or interests or else have anything to do with gender? I guess it’s probably me watching all those debates (I’ve seen this discussed on twitter multiples times) from a non-westerner and old-school lesbian perspective if I may say but this western genderqueer thing doesn’t make very much sense to me. You can be a guy and like so-called feminine stuff, or like to play with both masculinity and femininity. It doesn’t you any less of a guy, doesn’t make you a woman or an in-between, it just makes you an androgynous guy or a fem guy and there’s nothing wrong with that. Same goes the other way around. I’m quite masculine in my appearance, also always like more "guy stuff", it doesn’t make me any less of a women. I’m sorry I just don’t get this bigender label. Watching this from afar it seems like what it mean or look like to be a man or woman is becoming very restricted again and you have to fit this and this criteria or else you re queer something ( I know this is also very much debated in the lgbt community nowadays but I just hate that word, it was used as an insult and I personally don’t want to associate myself with it). Now I do think jm and jk gender nonconformity is an indication of them possibly being gay/pi (there’s a link between gender non-conformity and homosexuality/bisexuality) but that tattoo was probably more used an an indication of bisexuality in my humble opinion(I have a bi friend who actually have that sign tattooed, some ppl use it for bisexuality indeed). Sorry if I was a rude or anything (English not being my first language also) but I just see all those new labels in the western lgbt world and it just confuses the hell of me cause it seems sometimes pretty regressive, I just wanted to share my perspective.

Hi anon, Thank you for sharing your perspective with us. As a cis bi/pan woman of a certain age, I feel what you're saying - pretty keenly, actually. Because sometimes I just sit here like "I DO NOT GET WHAT THESE KIDS ARE TALKING ABOUT".

THIS IS GONNA GET LONG AND NOT HAVE PICTURES KIDS SO CLICK IF YOU WANNA.

Still here? Cool. It's not that we didn't HAVE a whole ass Kinsey scale but it only goes 1-6. Straight. Heteroflexible or Will Experiment At Parties. Bi. Homoflexible or Gay For Play. Gay. Supergay. That's ... what we had, in the day. I'm actually a 2.5 probably. And for years we did, we used numbers if we were smart enough to read the whole damn thing. And gender identity was like, you're cis or you're trans. That was it. And yes. "Queer" was a pejorative. A slur. A word we saw spray-painted on underpasses and sometimes school lockers. "Gay" implied pederasty, practically, but "queer" would get your ass beat in public and not an adult would stop it. And with the advent of the HIV Plague, to which I lost every damn one of the drag queens who raised me, we got even more hate. Girls less than guys, I think, but the history is not a pretty one. You know this. We of Gen X and older are all too aware. For those who have seen "Paris Is Burning" that was kinda my life for awhile, add intensive ballet. And most of those people are dead. What we have now, in the West particularly, is a smorgasbord of options. Literally if we can dream it up someone else already has and there's probably a flag. Like, it makes me feel old and out of touch. I don't even know how to call myself half the time. Am I bi? Pan? Sapiosexual? Demisexual because I don't put out on the first date? There are TOO MANY OPTIONS FOR MY SMALL ASS. I NEED A BETTER ASS TO HANDLE MY DECISIONS. And I see why too many options and too many classifications might almost feel regressive. Like, cis men are not always traditionally masculine beefy guys who like auto racing and American football. Many cis men like pretty things too. Most drag queens are cis men, actually. But femme guys are often seen, now, as other-gendered and not just other-oriented, because that's AN OPTION NOW. And the opposite is true. My cis lesbian BFF looks and acts like a guy. I have had people tell me she seems trans to them. SHE ISN'T. G-Money loves being a woman. She also loves auto racing and weightlifting and American football and her mohawk, let her live, right? Even I really waited for her to come out as trans or at least NB and IT AIN'T HAPPENED YET. She's 47.

I understand the issue of people feeling triggered by the Q word. I do. I get it. And I respect your choice not to use it or have it used at you - if I knew your user name I'd make a note :) And I get how just seeing it feels weird and wrong. I'm getting more used to it, it doesn't bother me as much as it did a few years ago. We used to call it genderfuck and honestly that makes as much sense. Now, to the guys (we're gonna go ahead and call them guys): my reasoning for thinking Jimin might be bigender is because he has all but told us that gender is a fluid construct for him. Yes, he identifies publicly as male, but even in interviews has openly said he feels more comfortable with the feminine parts of his personality in the last few years. That doesn't mean he isn't a man. And he may well be coding bisexuality - the issue there is that he so rarely has even appeared to show any interest in women, and he has openly coded for both sexes as gender (Illecebra and Arcanus). As to Jungkook, I think he's a gay cis male who also likes to feel pretty sometimes. Hell, he and Jimin both could easily fit that descriptor. And that's basically what they've said in public if you leave Filter out of it. But to be fair, these are men who have yet to come out. We forget that sometimes. THEY HAVE NOT COME OUT. Either of them. As far as we can prove they are cis straight men who like to sleep together and stay up all night and go on dates and give each other hickeys and kiss each other and hold hands and have inside jokes about "you are me I am you" and "we don't know what we do but we do stuff" and and and. I mean okay, we're not blind and my Korean source is telling me they are pretty damn open, just nobody talks about it, in Korea. But we have to remember that until they SAY something we can't PROVE anything. I mean until the sex tape leaks. ANYWAY I have blabbered on long enough, but thank you for your words and the transparency you had to share them with me.

Not that gymnastics is perfect, but there has been a positive change with women competing well into their 20s and finding they got better and stronger with age. Would be nice to see that trend into women's figure skating, particularly with the Russians :P

Totally agree with that. Imo gymnastics has seen a change of view. You can see that even gymnasts in their 20s can still learn new elements. Simone Biles just got even better with age and learned even more difficult stuff.

Maybe skaters - especially Russian ladies - would learn difficult jumps at later ages when they weren't all burned out and broken at the age of 17. There are male skaters who only learned quads when over 20 years old - Deniss Vasiljews had his first ratified quad at age 22, Jason Brown has more successful attempts at quads now than when he was under 20 - so we cannot know yet if it's not possible to learn quads after puberty for women, maybe it works the same as for some men? Ppl long thought doing multiple quads for men weren't possible, now we have plenty of male skaters attempting 3-5 quads in a program. We also have male skaters who lose their quads after puberty or injury - look at Stephen Gogolev for example - he can do half the things he did at 13 years old. Who knows what is possible?

I know some ppl only love the ultra c elements - quads above everything - but I think the skaters who stay relevant are skaters with long and interesting careers with lows and highs, who are loved for the combination of art and sport. We can create a separate sport for quads and call it jumping contest. Figure skating comes originally from drawing figurines on the ice. So art is in the roots.

In German the sport is called "EisKUNSTlauf" with the emphasis on KUNST which means ART. The combination of sport and art is what sparks interest for me.

What I also don't like about the whole hype about the ladies quads is that we only see the tip of the iceberg. The girls who literally survived it 'til seniors. We talk about how sorry we are for the careers cut short, but at least they had a career. How many girls and boys are broken in their early years without any kind of career or benefit of the sport. Broken for nothing. If skaters are older for seniors they also know more of life and can make their own decisions about the risks of doing ultra c-elements.