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v333spertine · 11 months

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since i was very young, i’ve had quite a morbid obsession with the story of persephone: the sweet goddess of spring, stolen by the god of death and forced to be his queen. i was in love with the way that she was simultaneously tender and morbid. i was in love with the way that she embodied decay. and i was angry at the way popular culture romanticised her relationship with hades. i asked myself, why is society sympathetic to a kidnapper and rapist?

but the older i get, the more i realise that persephone’s story is not about kidnap, nor is it about rape. it isn’t about the relationship between hades and persephone, but the relationship between what they represent. it is about the relationship between life and death.

death steals and ruins life, even - or especially - if it is young and sweet. thats what the story is about.

[this is not to say i am sympathetic with kidnapping and rape - they are terrible things. i am not saying what happened to persephone was okay. all i am saying is that the greeks (& romans) created this story in order to explain something greater than that. and to be honest, i don't like the comparison that much - death is natural and not inherently evil, whereas sexual assault is evil no matter what. however, this is story is beautiful and i love persephone]

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attheendoftheline · 1 year

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I could talk for days about the costuming in the show, and I probably will. One of the small details I’d like to point out is Persephone’s hair. It’s easy to point and talk about her change from vibrant greens to dressing like she is headed for a funeral but I think her hair speaks volumes (ha)

Up top Persephone let’s herself loose. She’s dancing and moving- hell! She floats from person to person absolutely buzzing with excitement as everyone in the bar is so alive - literally! She’s loose and very telling with her body language. Her hair is down and wild as she is. She has a nice bit of flowers braided in too.

Down below she’s stiff. It’s like her clothes confine her just as much as the town and hades himself does. She still moves and has expression but she’ll toss her wrist instead of something full body. She gestures , she stands and she walks instead of floating. Here her hair is put into a snood, her hair is caged. All that wild energy is subdued, even the little flowers on it are black and dead (likely as apart of the snood and not real flowers but the point stands).

I just— this show has so much loving detail put into it down to the floors and the smallest fiber oh costumes and I’m so in love.

#hadestown #hadestown broadway #hadestown musical #Persephone #persephone hadestown #hades and persephone #character study #costume appreciation #costume analysis #meta #greek mythology #small details

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alpaca-clouds · 8 months

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Rape, Abuse, Trauma and the Need for Power

This topic has been sneaking around in my brain for days now. Because I find it quite interesting to see this depicted in now multiple franchises. And I really want to talk about it. Partly, because I see some people struggling to understand it. So, let me, an abuse victim, explain.

You see these three characters? Yeah, they actually have a lot in common. Let me explain.

Spoilers vor Castlevania, Stray Gods and Baldur's Gate, obviously.

All three of them were victims of abuse and (probably) also rape. It should be noted that with both Carmilla and Persephone it is never outright said that they were raped, but it is heavily implied. With Astarion, obviously, it is outright stated.

More than that, we do know about all three of them that they were also abused. Both Carmilla and Astarion by their respective sires. Persephone by Hades.

And they also have one other thing in common: Their character arc features them trying to get some sort of power. Let me go through with them.

Carmilla was abused by her sire. We do know very little about the details, only that he was very cruel. There is some heavy implication that the abuse involved rape. At some point she killed her sire. Her entire character story is about her trying to get power for herself. First by trying to get control over Dracula's Castle. Then she tries to build her own empire. With her mental health getting worse, she ends up fantasizing about world domination.

Persephone in Stray Gods was kidnapped, raped and abused by Hades. She had everything taken from her during this, until she finally could not take it any longer and killed Hades. But the other gods denied her to take control over the underworld. Her basic conflict stems from her wanting to regain control over the underworld again.

Astarion is of course the odd one out, given we learn a lot more about his abuse. But like the two women, he was abused, raped and tortured. Due to the DnD vampire rules, he had no way of actually fighting back against his sire, with him escaping just through what amounts to sheer luck. When he learns that his sire wanted to sacrifice him (and many others) to gain a lot of power, Astarion wants to finish the ritual for himself, gaining the power.

The outcome of course is different for all three.

Carmilla gets killed, once she goes down the "world domination" thing. While with Persephone and Astarion it depends on player choice. I would argue though, that the happy end for them both is them giving up the power. That is Persephone giving up the throne and Astarion not finishing the ritual.

What is the interesting thing about this... Or, well, interesting might be the wrong world. But it is well written. Because this is very, very realistic for their backstories.

See, both abuse and especially rape are a lot about power. The abuser/rapist takes full control over the victim's body and life. (Which is also why rape rarely has to do with sexual enjoyment, and more with the rapist wanting to assert power.) Or, from the perspective of the survivor: It is all about having the power taken away from them.

This is bad enough if it is something that is a one time occurance. But if the survivor is in the situation for a long time, they experience a prolonged period of powerlessness and fear. The survivor is constantly afraid, constantly in survival mode, constantly trying to just get through it.

In my life I have seen too many bad takes along the lines of: "Rape survivors should stop whining. How bad can one rape be?" And those people do once again not understand: Rape is not about the sex. It is about having control and power over your own body taken away from you. It is about you being turned into a thing to be used by someone else. Which does not even mention the feeling of fear most people experience during a rape, as they do not know what kind of other violence might follow.

And this is something that leads the survivors to even after escaping the abuse, the trauma often leaves them feeling powerless. They might objectively not have less power than they had before the abuse happened, but to the traumatized nervous system it feels like that. And the traumatized brain does not work logically or objectively. All it knows is: The survivor has not enough power to prevent this situation from occuring again. But here is the thing: No amount of power will make them feel like they have enough power, like they can meaningfully protect themselves from further abuse.

This is why Carmilla is escalating so much in season 4 of Castlevania. Because no matter how much control and power she gets, she does not feel like it is enough to protect herself.

This is also why I do feel like the happy end for both Persephone and Astarion is them giving up their symbol of power. Because the thing is, that them gaining the power will just push them along into a spiral of needing more power to keep themselves in a feeling of being safe. Which is why the good ending for them needs to involve them being convinced to basically trust people again. Because that is a path that given enough time can lead to healing. Them gaining the power won't. In terms of their trauma the power they might gain is just a bandaid on an infected wound.

I have seen a lot of people argue that you should let Astarion finish the ritual, because it "is what he wants". But the thing is... it isn't. All he wants is to feel safe. And he thinks if he gains that power, he can feel safe. But he can't. To feel safe he needs to heal.

#analysis #baldurs gate 3 #castlevania #castlevania netflix #stray gods #astarion #bg3 astarion #castlevania carmilla #stray gods persephone #trauma #cw rape #cw sa #cw abuse

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onehopefuldreamer · 9 months

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Challenging a Queen - a love letter

Look, at first this post was going to be about Look into me (my first love when it comes to this game's soundtrack and still one of the songs I adore the most).

Then I wanted to wax poetic about You and I and You and I reprise (three different versions of the reprise depending on what you do with the throne and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn's glorious voice, yes, please! Plus Persephone and Grace is my personal OTP).

After that I moved on to The Throne because I think it's both absolutely awesome and absolutely bonkers you get two themes to mix and match there instead of only one (1st theme based on your first choice and the 2nd on your answer to Orpheus' question). It's still a huge, HUGE personal favourite.

(I will still write love letters to these three songs eventually.)

But then I read Austin Wintory's commentary on the Pantheon version of the soundtrack he posted on YouTube and it caught my attention that he called Challenging a Queen the most complex song in the game. Previous to reading that I had thought it was the same as a lot of the other songs - three main themes that you just get to mix and match but aside from that nothing much changes. Oh, how wrong I was!

Reading that comment made me curious about trying different combinations to see what would happen and once I started doing that I was completely blown away. Because it turns out that this song is anything BUT simple! The choices are even more interlinked here than in most other songs and the possible combinations that lead to different outcomes are so, SO many!

Based on my experimentation (8+ hours of gameplay that's only replaying this one song) I have discovered the following:

1. The first choice you make directly influences the second. So if you go from Green to Red for example you get a completely different outcome than if you had gone from Red to Green.

2. The first choice also influences the third/middle one. BXGXX is not the same as RXGXX or GXGXX (X stands for any colour). In the case of middle Red, I think, there's the most possibilities because there the second choice also comes into play. For example the banter between Grace and Persephone is different if you go with RBRXX (which is the same as RRRRR) or RGRXX.

3. Then the third and fourth choices also influence each other and lead to different combinations. Say, XXBRX is decidedly not the same as XXRBX.

4. Last but most certainly not least that pesky first choice continues to have an effect until the very end. The combination between it and your fifth or, sometimes, fourth and fifth choice/s is what leads to all sorts of different and unique endings you can get.

That's already a super complex song structure that I'm still not sure I have figured out completely, to be honest. I continue to experiment with different combinations and plan to try to see if I can compile a guide to all the possibilities here. I'm very much not statistically or mathematically inclined so this has been a bit of a struggle but I'm also having so much fun trying to pick apart this song that I don't really mind.

I've never experienced anything like this in any game before and honestly playing around with this song has been a revelation. The amount of screaming I have done in front of my laptop every time I come upon something new is insane. I've come to a point where I have bits and pieces of Challenging a Queen rattling around my head at all times and I LOVE it! Because, as weird as it sounds, I have not become bored with this song even after so many hours of listening to it. I happen to love all the different permutations and listening to Laura Bailey and Mary Elizabeth McGlynn try to outperform each other is far, FAR from a hardship. In fact it's an absolute joy.

I'll leave you with what's probably my most favourite discovery about this song: there are 17 different endings you can discover. 17!!! That's insane! Or at least that's as many as I have personally discovered and I am still very much in awe. If you're curious about checking them out on your own, here goes:

1-4 - RRRRR, BBBBB, GGGGG with a Charming Grace and GGBGG or GGRGG with a Clever or Kickass Grace. These are what I call the regular or classic endings. You're pretty much guaranteed to discover these.

5-8 - BXXBG, RXXBG, GXXBG with Clever or Kickass Grace and one extra XXXBG ending for Charming Grace. The first choice does not matter for Charming Grace, the ending is always the same no matter what.

9-11 - BXXGR, RXXGR and GXXGR

12-14 - BXXBR, RXXBR and GXXBR

15-17 - BXXRB, RXXRB and GXXRB

What I find impressive (aside from the huge number of endings) is that the endings from 5 and onward are all genuinely combined endings. They're not just alternative versions of the RR, GG or BB endings, they're a combination of approaches and/or musical styles and I cannot even begin to express how much I adore that.

I'm not going to lie, doing the experimentation for the GR, BR and RB endings in particular hurt my feelings a whole lot because I'm a Persephone stan and hate to see her trounced by Grace so thoroughly when I know she's actively grieving Calliope. But what really broke my heart (again as a Persephone stan) is those BG endings. Those have made me cry actual tears (the only other ending that's had this effect was GG with Clever or Kickass Grace). They're also the only endings I've been able to discover that have the camera panning down instead of sideways and come with their own backdrop. Discovering my first version of them had me squealing like mad and feeling like an archaeologist who'd discovered priceless ancient treasures. They're probably my personal favourites, all of them. Both because they're so unique and because I love how compassionate Grace is in them. As much as I do think Grace is badass when she wins, I love her being soft and understanding towards Persephone a whole lot more.

I'll stop here because this is already a wall of text for which I'd apologise but this is not even all my thoughts and feelings on this song. I just have so many! Now off to listen to it again and work on my guide.

#stray gods #stray gods: the roleplaying musical #stray gods grace #stray gods persephone #nad talks about the things she loves #song analysis #sort of #long post

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that-ari-blogger · 5 months

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It's Time

Ok, this song. (This post might be a bit heavy)

Usually, near the end of a musical, there is a quiet, reflective number before the bombastic finale. This is often the final straw for a large percentage of the audience, who find themselves brought to tears by the rest of the story, and this just catalyses it.

Stray Gods: The Role-Playing Musical has two of such songs. Adrift Reprise, and It's Time. I have already done some analysis on the former of those, but It's Time, I left for last.

Let me explain.

SPOILERS AHEAD

One of the strengths of Stray Gods is its connection. This is a story about a young adult trying to find her place and her purpose. She is adrift, with so many places to go, and she looks to her elders for advice. Surely, they have their lives figured out. Right? But no. I think Apollo says it best at Aphrodite's party.

"We get older, we have more to forget. We hold grudges longer. But wiser? No, not so far."

Stray Gods pulls on very real emotions in its audience, very few people in the audience know where they are going, or what their life will lead them to. So, the themes of fate and choice in this musical become more pertinent. You cannot know what your future will hold without it feeling like a burden, but you can make choices. Good or bad, you can always choose.

This is what the Adrift Reprise number is all about. But there is another almost universal experience that this story hits you with. An emotion that It's Time centres around. Loss.

The vast majority of humans have lost someone at someone close to them at some point in their lives. As you get older, the chance of this happening only increases. It's an unfortunate fact about being mortal. And here's the thing, in Stray Gods, mortality and immortality are not mutually exclusive.

Everyone in this story is mourning, either the loss of Calliope, or the old Hermes, or Hephestus, or the gods who have gone missing. These idols can live forever, but they can also not. The idols are humans, but more. More powerful, more magical, more experienced, but also more fragile, and more weak, and more weird.

Persephone's relationship with Calliope is subtle at first, but once you notice it, you see it everywhere. From the portrait of Calliope in Persephone's office, to the anger at her murder, to the immediate switch from avenger to protector the second she clocks on to Grace actually being Calliope's chosen successor.

So, when they finally meet in the underworld, this can either be an aha moment or a surprise, and either works.

"So many years of history,

The fights, the highs, the miseries,

I'm so proud of you, but it's time to go."

"I never truly saw before,

how trapped we were, how far from shore,

great at the time, but now it's time to go"

In a single verse, two stanzas, this song summarises what could possibly be a centuries long relationship. Tumultuous, but real. For all of their faults, there is a love there. You can see why the relationship broke down, and you know Persephone and Calliope well enough at this point to infer a few more details about that. But you also know that looking back, the connection is still there.

I also want to point out that nautical metaphor again. It links back to Adrift and gets referenced in just about every other song. But the difference now, is who it is aimed at. Usually, Grace is the one being called out for drowning in choices or something similar, but now its Persephone realising just how far out she is, and looking back on her relationship with Calliope, only now can she see where she went wrong. Maybe, if Calliope was still alive, she and this new Persephone could work things out. Now that Persephone isn't obsessing about that throne and can actually admit fault.

The tragedy is that we will probably never get to find out. Because Calliope is dead, and you can't change that.

But what about something you can change?

@ohnoitstbskyen has a phenomenal video titled Grief In Art, which I highly recommend you check out. In it, he gives the following summary of the emotion:

"Grief comes with anger, with emptiness. It comes with loneliness and exhaustion and a dozen other complex and multifaceted feelings that all intermix and grind against each other. That's part of why it can be so overwhelming."

I am willing to bet that this isn't a foreign concept to a large percentage of Stray Gods' audience.

So, tell me, if you were given the chance to bring back a lost loved one, would you take it? It's a complicated question. But if, right now, I told you I could bring back your mother or brother or friend, would you say yes? What price would be too steep? What is the value of a human life? How much would you give?

Personally, I would say yes. To me, every life is unquantifiable, and I would give anything for just a conversation with certain people.

But what about Grace? And what about Freddie?

There are two ways you can come at It's Time in the musical. Well, three actually, but we'll get there in a moment. You either are following the romance storyline with Freddie, or you are not. And from what I can tell, this song makes no distinction between the two. You bring your own baggage.

"It was quick and so was I,

I was not prepared to die.

But Grace, I choose this,

And I know you'll get by."

Do you bring Freddie back from the dead? It's possible, and you'd get your happy ending. You can, but should you? That much is up to you.

Actions have consequences, that's kind of the thesis of this story. One consequence of Grace's actions was the death of Freddie. You can undo that, if you want.

I have played through this game a fair few times at this point, and at this moment, I have gone through both options. If you were to approach this as a simple, numerical question, the answer would be obvious. There is no physical benefit in the game to either decision, so you should do what Freddie says and let her stay dead. The reason this is such a difficult choice is because of the humanity in it.

You know the right choice, to let Freddie stay dead, to not go against her wishes, to not give her the eidolon. Freddie says she is content with her decision, so you should go with that, right?

But are you strong enough to make that choice? I know I wasn't the first time I played this game.

There is one other element that complicates this, and it's fascinating to me. Because that third approach to this song is retrospect.

What if you have played this game before and brought Freddie back? Then you get Freddie's love confession, and it changes the entire story. It's prophecy, like Apollo warned us about. You know the fate you are trying to achieve, so you take actions against yourself to try and thwart it, essentially locking yourself in that path, whether you like it or not.

Does the promise of a happy ending change your choices here?

Final Thoughts

There is a reason I left this song until last. It's one of those songs in musical theatre that brings a tear to my eye every time I watch it or listen to it. The instruments, the melody, the fact that this is the only time Grace ever says "Farishta". Everything about this song is amazing.

Next week is my final roundup for Stray Gods, and as a quick reminder, I am putting out a request for your analysis, be it musical or artistic or lyrical. Send me a message, or comment, reblog this post, and I will try to include as many as I can (credited to you, naturally) in the final analysis to build a big picture of what everyone thinks of this musical.

So, stick around if that interests you.

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#rants #literary analysis #literature analysis #character analysis #what's so special about...?#stray gods #greek mythology #stray gods grace #stray gods game #stray gods the roleplaying musical #grace x freddie #stray gods spoilers #stray gods freddie #greddie #stray gods persephone #stray gods calliope

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addsalwayssick · 4 months

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what if hades was just sirius black. a guy who was able to separate himself from the family abuse, and now lives alone with his wife (remus) and his dog (james) and the dogs wife (lily/the red ball)

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alyona11 · 9 months

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Hi! So I am very new to Hadestown and I am watching the bootleg. I really love the dynamic between Hades and Persephone, but there is one thing that kind of rub me in not so good way, is Hey Little Song Bird implied that Hades and Eurydice slept together? I am seeing a lot of interpretation and it genuinely confused the hell out of me asdfghk

Hi! Well, tbf it's a tricky question, but the short answer is that Hadestown suggests that something might have happened behind closed doors. The rest is up to audience and actor's interpretation.

For example, Anaïs Mitchell often mentions in Working On a Song that in early workshops she often went with the idea that Hades cheats and pretty regularly even though these affairs mean nothing to him since the only person he loves is Persephone. It even had a cut song:

In her early drafts/productions of Hadestown you can often get the vibe that from her point of view it doesn't matter as much because they are eternal beings and love each other since the world began so does it even matter for them?

However, by NYTW this story line was cut apart from Persephone's line in How Long:

"I don't mind if you look at other girls, now and then"

"The girl means nothing to me"

"I know"

Plus the staging in NYTW Papers and Hades' protective peacock behavior with Eurydice around Orpheus in the scene also gives you a thought that they might have had an affair? Plus some bits like the fact that she has a line in Why We Build a Wall and her words "But don't you see? That's different with me!" - "Different than who? They thought they were different too!" Could also be interpreted as Hades suggesting some special conditions by granting her a role of a romantic interest. Whether the interest is real or not and did he use it or not is again up to your interpretation of NYTW Hades. He is more of a morally dubious guy (as all ht Hades are) so it's more up to you to either believe he would have cheated to put Persephone in her place or would just use showing off Eurydice as a brutal way to get Persephone's interest.

As for Broadway, I think it's still suggested and you can find profs in the lyrics but I think that they are what they are - suggestive and leave you to interprete it whichever way you feel comfortable. I think the biggest suggestion remains in Flowers with the line:

'I trembled when he laid me out

"You won’t feel a thing," he said, "when you go down"'

Which kinda can have a death meaning and sex meaning, tbf someone could have written a good article on how those topics are connected in Hadestown. So here, again chose one of the two or both.

But again, Broadway also changed the lyrics in How Long and the whole staging in Papers so it's less suggestive.

My personal opinion based on Broadway production is that it all depends on how the actor plays it and whether you believe this particular Hades is the type to sleep with Eurydice to get Persephone's attention and prove he is still attractive or he is more of a person who doesn't care about having the affair and his only goal is to get Persephone to react somehow by composing such a messed up hurtful plan. Personally, I prefer the second option maybe because I'm a pussy or maybe because I see Hades (whom I mostly base on Patrick Page ht Broadway previews) like a person who is desperate to get Persephone's attention in such a radical way like a cat pushing objects from your table to see your reaction. He wants to be stopped, he wants any reaction from Persephone. He even touches her by the shoulder before going into the office like "Look!! Look! I'm absolutely totally leaving! To cheat! See! Hey come on! I'll even take off my tie to show that I'm serious! Don't you wanna stop me???". Seems kinda way too extra to me. Like he could have just gotten to the office after parading a pretty girl in front of her and it would be understood that it's for an affair. But he takes so much time to make sure she understands that he can find himself someone when all he wants is for her to come back to him with open arms. I'm not sure he has the guts to actually damage his relationship to an irreversible degree (considering Broadway Hades is never stated as a cheater before the Eurydice sub-plot). Like it's one thing to take a mortal before her time and parade her in front of your wife (because what is a mortal life after all?) as a "replacement" and it's the other way to actually cheat on her and deal with the fact that she might never forgive him again if it is a deal-breaker for her considering they seem to be true to each other for all these years.

One interesting thing to note here as well is how Hades actors play the reaction to Persephone's line in How Long:

"He has the kind if love that you and I once had"

Because his instant reaction is "OH SHIT once had?? Does she think I don't love her still?? OH SHIT I BROUGHT THE GIRL THIS IS WHY SHE MIGHT THINK THAT", so he answers to that:

"The girl means nothing to me!"

Depending on the actor and she show the line sounds either scared, confused, angry, undignified etc. So it's once again up to you to interprete why he reacts this way: is he angry because she suggested he would actually cheated on her? Is he angry because she called him out on that affair? Is he confused and scared because she thinks he doesn't love her anymore because of his foolish decision to tease her in such a cruel way?

That's up to you.

P.S. I think one of the most interesting studies of the subject and Hades' character that I've read in a fic for that matter was the Songbird chapter of Winters Nigh and Summers O're. You can check it out, but I will warn you that it's probably one of the heaviest chapters of that fic in the emotional sense and it has explicit parts (don't worry, nothing bad happens to Eurydice. Well...apart from dying, I guess), so check out the warnings if you decide to read it.

#me being me #hadestown #hades #eurydice #persephone #hadestown analysis #i guess #i honestly wanted to reply shortly but then got interested in thinking about the subject and wrote a huge ass post #sorry anon hope you'll enjoy it tho #i do think Songbird chapter is like the most painful ht fic I've read ngl #traumatic but so so good

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ambriel-angstwitch · 1 year

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So some more thoughts on The Sun and The Star

I love how this book has one of the healthiest understanding of love I’ve seen in recent media.

To quote Persephone

“But no matter what form love takes, no matter how much or how little you have, you must still choose to cultivate it. In friendships, in romantic relationships, in life,”

I love that quote because I feel like there’s no longer an understanding of the choice you make to love. Love is a complex idea, and I feel like to many people believe it’s just a feeling. From what I’ve observed and understood in my life it isn’t though. Of course feelings are important and are typically what start it love isn’t just that. Love is also a choice and a commitment. You choose each day to love somebody to commit yourself to actively work towards furthering your relationship and your understanding of each other.

This book understood that. It understood that in a relationship there’s going to be times it’s hard, you don’t understand each other and you might fight. Those giddy romantic feelings might die out for a bit. But none of those mean you give up. No you work through your issues and along the way you might reignite the spark that started everything.

And that’s what Solangelos relationship was, they had their highs and their lows, they fought, they didn’t always feel those sappy feelings but through all of that they never gave up on their relationship. They worked through it.

I don’t know I just thought this was a really refreshing take on a love story. It was a type of love that even I as someone Aroace spec could understand. I don’t get those giddy brain chemical feelings but I do understand commitment and choosing to love those people important in your life.

#solangelo #tsats minor spoilers #tsats #the sun and the star #rick riordan #persephone #tsats review #tsats analysis #tsats spoilers #love #aromantic #nico di angelo #will solace

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whatmyface · 1 year

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ok so ik someone on the last post mentioned that it was ooc for Artemis to own that dress? but given her characterization in these first few chapters not really?? like shes clearly parelled to Persephone as the cool party girl to Persephone naïve village girl

i really like how Persephone looks like a doll she actually look sooo cute

i really like seeing Olympus be super dramatic wild parties shit like that, and i wish the whole story had more of these? like plz i want more dramatic parties and soap opera shit and paparazzi magazines and rich celeb ppl problems that all sound sooo much more interesting then whatever we have rn

more reference to alcoholic hades, tbh i wish that was more explored, but all of hades trauma seem to be pretty tied together? like he drank alcohol and it reminded him of kronos?

the pole dancer on the roof,,, ugh i just hate how LO treats sex workers like objects its just so bad,,,,

zeus actually looks ok and makes me laugh??? (impossible challenge, shocking, police called) but bro fr i HATE Zeus with my whole heart HE SO ANNOYING and he gets a pass from most of the ulo fandom and its so annoying HES NOT INTREASTING GUYS

i really really really like more aggressive and serious Poseidon? like hes more of a bad guy here, also as the chapters progress why does his scar just.. disappear??

i find it really interesting (and creepy) that hades is attracted to Persephone when shes very clearly upset? like the romantic of me thinks. oh hades is attracted to melancholy and tragic beauty as the king of the underworld how romantic ! ! ! but the cynic of me thinks. oh this creepy guy wants to take advantage of women so he looks for them when they at their lowest, what a creep ! ! !

also the more i notice its just that, hades is so much of a main character then Persephone, like literally all of my thoughts her were about hades like,, it just def feels like hes the mc

theres just something about the way hades and his brothers talk about minthe (and maybe the other women hes been with) but idk the word for it its just so ugh,,,

#lore olympus analysis #lore olympus #anti lore olympus #antiloreolympus #lore olympus criticism #lore olympus critical #lore olympus persephone #lore olympus hades #lo reread

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eldritchpluto · 11 months

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Hadestown Thoughts Because I Can

I saw this show for the second time this past week and I maybe have the most thoughts ever, so here’s all of the shit I’ve been obsessing over the past couple of days. I have HUGE theme thoughts.

I really appreciate that the show takes time to address that Eurydice has been alone for a really long time, and that she needs to take time to trust people. This is best seen in "All I've Ever Known", because Orpheus has to earn the right to touch her. When he goes to touch her and she flinches, away, he respects that and doesn't force her to do anything. It's only once they really fall in love that they're able to, and it's because they trust each other. But after this point, touch is 100% how they express their love. These two NEVER separate. So, when "Gathering Storm" happens and Orpheus begins isolating, it is SO jarring. Because the way they express love for each other has dissipated, and Eurydice only feels more and more lonely. This is something that helps contextualize her choice. But, when we flash forward after "Flowers" and Orpheus appears again, she fully clings to him. She is so desperate to hold him because she's lost that anchor. That scene in general is just so impactful because you can feel how much they've missed each other. This makes the end hurt SO FUCKING MUCH. Because they are finally back together, and now they are forced to not only touch each other, but Orpheus can't even see her. So, that basis of their trust and love has been taken away. They can't be hand in hand, arm in arm, side by side and all of that. And that only increases Orpheus's doubts. And we all know what happens with doubt comes in.

Speaking of "Doubt Comes In", I have big thoughts there too. Firstly, how Orpheus sings the whole melody that I've been thinking about as the "love melody" (The la la las) Because we know that this is the song that represents the connection between him and Eurydice, Hades and Persephone, and the thing that is powerful enough to bring Spring and life. So, he's using this song as his anchor at this moment, right? I think that's partly true, but I also think it is hindering him. The song is reminding him of how much he loves Eurydice, and he has already spent so much time away from her. So, he wants to feel that sensation again, and he has no idea that Eurydice is calling out to him and encouraging him. He only knows silence and his own anxiety. He's so afraid that he's relying so hard on this love, and that Hades may have tricked him, and that he was relying on something that was taken away from him.

Another "Doubt Comes In" thing! The way this song is staged is so incredible. The stage is incredibly dark. Eurydice is following him, but you can't always see her. And, there is the question of if she's fully left the stage, or if she's just in a part we can't see. That adds to the audience's own doubts, even if we have way more information that Orpheus does. And, in this dark place, who has the lights? The Fates. The Fates are the voices of anxiety in his head, and we've seen how impactful they are on other characters. They physically bully Eurydice at multiple points, and they're even able to get to Hades during "Word to the Wise" and "His Kiss, the Riot". They've already impacted Orpheus pretty deeply during "Nothing Changes". (Also just a note, this song has a much faster tempo live, and it really adds so much to that feeling of fear and doubt). So, back to "Doubt Comes In". The Fates are the only people with lights. Because, Orpheus is the dark, is lost in unknowns. And, it always feels like anxiety has the answer and that light. But, giving in and looking at the light/truth is what will doom him. It's just such an incredible representation of what everything feels like for him. And the Fates aren't a malevolent force, they are literally just a representation and a voice to what is already there within all of these characters.

Switching gears! (Also last thing for now), but WOW do I love this version of Persephone. I saw the understudy, and she is incredible. She brings a very intense energy to the performance. At the start, you can see she has a lot of energy, and that she loves fun and latches onto the beauty in the world. But, when you see her in "Our Lady of the Underground", she is INCREDIBLY intense. All of her actions and movements are random and striking. You can tell that she feels trapped and shes lashing out by attempting to hold onto this sense within her. It also doesn't help that she isn't sober, and she is very loose and free with how much alcohol she drinks (as Orpheus says, she's "blinded by a river of wine"). So, when she sobers up and gets involved with the whole Orpheus thing, she begins to go still. She holds her ground with incredible confidence, and her intensity is now focused and purposeful. She is advocating for what she needs and wants, and she won't take any bullshit. The contrast is just SO striking oh my god.

Ok! Those are the big ones I have for now, but WOW this show is living fully rent free in my brain. It's my favorite piece of theater ever!

#i hope my rambles make sense and that folks like them!#hadestown #orpheus #eurydice #persephone #analysis #theater

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meerawrites · 10 months

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Hadestown: we’re gonna sing it again

“Don’t ask where, brother, don’t ask when…” Hermes sings in our ‘prologue’ of sorts, Road to Hell.

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attheendoftheline · 1 year

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Guilt in its entirety

So I saw this towards the end of Working on a song and it completely tore out my heart, now you all must suffer with me. It is the original-original ending song.

It’s so- ow. It’s beautiful and absolutely devastating. There’s a certain angst that makes my angst hungry heart full.

Additionally this cut verse from If it’s true-

OW. He’s a poet at heart even with his pain. Also it’s yet another reference to his myth/canon(?) death of being torn apart… only here it’s more emotional and personal and wanting for it. Which hhhhhhgh it hurts so good.

Bonus-

Persephone is not his mom. But it also makes sense for her to have the part because having Calliope for one song doesn’t really make sense. Also don’t be embarrassed those are good- I like how the older drafts really have a lot more mention of the other gods? It sort of fleshes out the universe even if they’re not in final versions.

#hadestown #angst #hadestown broadway #orpheus hadestown #persephone hadestown #calliope #Greek myth #Greek mythology #anaïs mitchell #working on a song #lyric analysis #meta #Hadestown meta #eurydice hadestown #orpheus and eurydice #orphydice #guilt #character study

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spicylove4ever · 1 year

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Lore Olympus 231 reactions

As per usual, I feel compelled to remind that Lore Olympus is a comic that dwells on Hades and Persephone as a couple and roots for them, SO IT'S ONLY NATURAL DEMETER IS GOING TO BE PORTRAYED AS THE ANTAGONIST. Also, the author has every right to do with their work whatever they feel like, since it's her work and art.

So, a child leaving home is painful for the parents, and is natural that is saddening. The Hymn to Demeter is about this pain, so far so good, but I feel like this comic reminds us that still it's not a reason to try to keep your offspring tied to you when they have showed multiple times that they want to have their own life, which is something absolutely natural as well.

With all this in mind, let's begin with the reaction and comments.

So we start with Persephone asking Hades to stay as an spectator-moral support by just their pressense. Persephone is sure she is ready for whatever her mother is going to do, since Persephone is aware her mother is not happy with her moving out, but she's sure a good normalized talk, insisting in how she is determined that she is starting a new life that she fully wishes is going to be enough....

.... only Demeter has clearly decided to go fully wrecking ball mode to attack every independency idea and rip it to the root.

Interesting detail: despite inviting the members of TGOEM, I don't see Artemis or Athena anywhere.

Emotional Wrecking ball Mode part 1: basically calls her ungrateful.

Emotional Wrecking ball Mode part 2: questions Persephone's sanity.

Emotional Wrecking ball Mode part 3: undermines the self-worth and achievements of the target.

More than Emotional Wrecking ball mode, it's totally gaslighting.

I have mentioned before how Demeter is showing a good amount of gaslighting. I leave you a link of the signs below and the mentioned publication as well. (ignore the part of Trump)

The comic chapter finishes with this:

Demeter insists on Persephone to put this dress on.

Now, exchanging clothes to the type of wardrope she used to wear seems to be a way to metaphorically show her regression to being just Kore.

I have the feeling this dress might be enchanted, but Demeter has only ever used psychological manipulation so far, so I'm not sure.

So, predictions to the next chapter:

Well, since we have seen Hestia being is dissaproval of this so called intervention:

Then this below might be a hint of what is going to happen:

Hestia notices a moth that is encased and it's also clearly Hades and he's also....

...FURIOUS AS HELL.

Someone else bets Hestia is going to let Hades go and put an end on this intervention went extremely far?

And again, does someone else want this to go like in Turning Red with MeiMei vs her mother?

#lore olympus #lore olympus 231 analysis #demeter just went too far #demeter stans this is clearly not your comic #hades and persephone #hades is going to explode #or he's going to counterattack big time #in any case he's going to remind persephone that she's awesome

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themidnightwitch44 · 1 year

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I’m sure someone else has pointed this out before, however, few things in Hadestown show the tension between Hades and Persephone more than how, in “How Long” Hades says “You and your pity don’t fit in my bed”. MY bed, not our bed.

#Hadestown #hadestown broadway #hades and persephone #Hadestown analysis #(The hyperfixation is real folks)

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that-ari-blogger · 7 months

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Persephone Is Stray Gods' Thesis Statement

I mentioned this when I wrote my post on Pan (check it out, I'm rather proud of that), but Persephone is also a weird choice to include. When you think of the Olympians, Persephone is there, but its "Hades and Persephone" or "That time Hades kidnapped Persephone" or "Persephone, wife of Hades." There is a duality to her pop culture appearance, but here, Hades is absent, and Persephone takes a central role. Why?

Let me explain.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Let's start simple. Who is Persephone? The answer to that is complicated, and thats the point. In the modern understanding, Persephone is the wife of Hades, and that's pretty much it. She's the goddess of spring (although not really). She exists in relationship to her husband and nothing else.

But mythologically, Persephone is terrifying. Her name predates Hades' in terms of archaeological evidence, and she has been equated with the name Kore, meaning "maiden" which, yes, is why that name gets referenced in stray gods. Essentially, Persephone is old, but she had a nickname that people used instead of her actual name.

My theory of this is because you don't want to say the name of a death goddess or she'll notice you, but that is mostly because OSP proposed that idea in their video, and I liked it. Check it out for more detail on Persephone.

The point that I'm going for here is that Persephone is multi faceted in nature but has been whittled down to a 2D archetype in general knowledge. And that's how she is introduced in Stray Gods, she's mean and unpleasant and fits into the "so obviously the killer that she's probably a red herring" archetype. But she gets more complex as a character the closer you look.

Anyway, let's examine this song.

The visuals are phenomenal. Take this shot, for example. Persephone stands raised above everyone else, with her symbol glowing behind her, symbolising how her influence is enormous and that this challenge will be tough. It's also colouring the rest of the room, all of the nameless NPCs are entirely lit in purple, a colour associated very clearly with Persephone. She is in control of this scene. It's also worth noting how small and indistinguishable grace is here, she fades in where Persephone stands out. Grace is weaker here. Thats some cool visual storytelling right there.

Also, The Underworld is a dope as all hell name for a club. (She's queen of the club called the underworld. So, she's queen of the underworld).

Similarly, this is cool. Its a bridge, symbolising connection, or a crossing. As Grace argues and fights with Persephone, she crosses into Persephone's world and starts to understand her more.

This shot is just cool, not much else to it. It's confronting Persephone with herself and her emotions about Calliope, cast in the colours of a sunrise as she forces Persephone to mage a choice about what to do in the future.

"If she had something to say, would you turn her away?" "Please don't do this."

This neatly shows that at this point in the song, Grace has "won". She has succeeded in the challenge, but neither combatant looks particularly happy. The reason for the victory dominates the camera, the connection has been formed because of Calliope.

"You hear that? Silence"

I am a sucker for the simple things. A blank stage with a single image on it is all you need to win my heart. This shot is my favourite in the song. It's the moment when you finally get through to Persephone, if you do that. (I'm not telling you how to get here, work that out yourself). What do you see when you finally get through all of Persephone's walls and defences? What do you hear?

Silence.

Persephone stands before you in an enormous ribcage, where the heart should be. It's overgrown, and empty, and the rest of the body has disappeared. There is just enough there to know that there is a hole, a void.

Phantom Pains sets up a metaphor of anatomy. Specifically, anatomy that has been removed or lost. And here that metaphor is again, showing the wounds at the heart of Persephone. This is a character who knows loss and trauma and betrayal, who is trapped by the memory (I wonder who else is like that).

In one ending, this area is where you get the explanation of Hades' absence. Persephone killed him.

Stray Gods is a story about family, about how, when it goes well, it can be amazing, but when it goes badly, things get dark. Of course, Persephone would be included in that story, she is part of the archetypal dysfunctional family in Greek mythology. But like the myth, this character is more complex than that. Stray Gods is also about moving past trauma, overcoming it, being more than it, and Persephone's characterisation in the entire musical embodies that philosophy.

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#rants #literary analysis #character analysis #literature analysis #what's so special about...?#greek mythology #stray gods #stray gods persephone #stray gods challenging a queen #stray gods the roleplaying musical #stray gods the musical

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hadestownreconstruction · 7 months

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8!!!! i love this project❤️

Here's something I wrote about Persephone's development across the productions! It was originally posted as a comment under one of Patrick Page's Instagram posts.

I've always thought that removing the workers in Our Lady of the Underground was an interesting developmental choice. Persephone’s speakeasy acting as a place to re-humanize the workers made her an agent against Hades’ absolute rule. By removing the workers, it also removes what remains of her actions directly against his will, making her more complacent in what’s happening in Hadestown. It’s the conclusion of the developmental path she’d been on; in early versions (2006-07 and thenabouts), Persephone seemed outwardly supportive of Hades, a sort of perfect wife, while acting behind his back in her speakeasy (to the point of sheltering Orpheus there). While I’m missing information on some key workshops, from what we do know it looks like as productions pass she becomes more vocal against him, while doing less to actually subvert his will in any meaningful way. Where once the speakeasy was the act of ultimate rebellion against him, now it is nothing but a pastime for her. She has become entirely complacent with the mistreatment of the workers.

Some understandably dislike this progression and conclusion, but I find it to be fitting. What is more accurate to our time than someone in a position of power only making superficial gestures to support those that need it, when they are in some cases the only ones with the capacity to create actual change? Persephone's resistance to meaningful action feels like a very appropriate character and narrative choice.

Hope you like the analysis! Thanks for the support!

#hadestown #analysis #media analysis #character analysis #hadestown analysis #persephone #musicals #broadway #musical analysis

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