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musical-chick-13 · 3 years

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Cersei Lannister for the character ask thing :)

YAY MY ALL-TIME FAVE

• Did they live up to their potential? / In what ways was their potential unachieved?

-Um...YES. I’m going to focus on show here because...the books...aren’t finished...SO. Although I do wish the end of the show had focused more on the fallout of her history with Sansa and I do wish she had been afforded a more direct confrontation with Dany, I don’t think I could have ever asked for a better villain. I started watching the show because I was told there was a hot evil lady, and I could never have imagined the utter humanity Lena brought to her or the nuance and clearly-motivated yet realistic complexities afforded to Cersei’s character. I had waited my whole life for some female character any female character to be allowed to be fucked up. To do stupid things and make mistakes and feel ugly/extreme emotions and experience internalized misogyny and have terrible coping mechanisms and be mentally ill in an ugly (as in, not cute/romanticized) way. To keep going out of spite even though she thought there was nothing to keep going for. I saw little glimmers of that early season 1, and those only got better and better as Cersei only got more and more formidable as time went on. I truly am winning the most I love her so much.

• How they negatively and positively affected the story.

-The thing here is that without Cersei, there really is no overarching story. Her relationship with Jaime is what drives the entire plot and Ned’s uncovering of the court’s corruption. Her refusal to have Robert’s child on the throne (or give birth to his child in the first place) is what causes the succession crisis that even makes everyone else’s power plays a possibility. She spurs Sansa’s development from idealistic child to jaded young adult, which is lynchpin of the whole Northern Independence arc that ultimately ends in her being crowned there. And through all of this, she is both ruthless and sympathetic. She has understandable motivations: she is tired of being treated as less-than for being a woman. She feels like her life is meaningless in such a world if she cannot have power. Power is the only way to truly be safe. She wants to protect her children. She wants her father to understand her. She wants to break herself away from her womanhood but she can’t escape it. All of these things enrich the story because they make the watcher/reader ask, “What truly makes someone evil. Is what she’s doing that much worse than what anyone else in this show does? What course of defense does she have by not being an athletic woman who can physically fight? If love makes you do terrible things, is it always a force of good? What do we allow people to get by with in the name of protecting their family? At what point does self-preservation become irredeemably villainous? How do we talk about abuse of power when the people abused are also terrible people who do terrible things?” All of these questions deal with deconstructing the idea of black and white morality, which is, I would argue, the entire point of the series. So she serves that end quite nicely. :)

• What my favorite arc for them is.

Oooh, this is a tricky one. I’m a sucker for anything that allows Cersei to go absolutely feral and I love pain, so probably her fight against the Faith Militant. They try to take absolutely everything from her. She is so blinded by the threat Margaery poses to her family’s and her stability, that she makes a not-too-well-thought-out decision. (You know, like a real person.) She loses her reputation, she gets thrown in prison, her main ally turns on her, and she goes through the Walk of Atonement, which is honestly probably the most painful thing I’ve ever fucking seen. She spends an entire season trying to pick up the pieces and it culminates in the most badass death-to-my-enemies scene I think I’ve ever seen. And to see a character pull themselves back up from the brink of complete ruin? Especially one who is severely depressed and “hysterical”? We love to see it.

• What I think of their ending.

PERFECT BEAUTIFUL AMAZING 10/10 MY GIRL DIED THE LAST QUEEN TO EVER SIT ON THE IRON THRONE DIDN’T GET BRUTALLY MURDERED AND DIED IN THE ARMS OF THE ONLY MAN SHE EVER TRULY WANTED WHO LOVED HER UNCONDITIONALLY GOD FUCKING BLESS

Personal bias aside, Jaime and Cersei were always going to die together. Jaime was never truly “redeemed,” he just became more understood. (Feeling ashamed of being ostracized and generally agreeing some of your actions were bad =/= becoming a good person who breaks ties with every unhealthy or immoral behavior you engage in.) Jaime came back to Cersei because they understand each other. And Cersei recognizes that she is about to truly lose everything. Her family, her power, her empire, her life. But in the end, she realizes that there was one glimmer of good and that she doesn’t have to lose all of those things alone. It’s a humbling, miserable death, but in very many ways it comes the way she always knew it would: at the hands of another woman, and by the side of the man who is such a part of herself that that other woman in question ceases to matter. Her last moments might be because of Daenerys, but they aren’t about her, they’re about Jaime and Cersei. The only two people. Together. Just as they’d always predicted. And then the person responsible for her death doesn’t even get to enjoy it because it came at the price of a complete loss of conscience. My fave not brutally murdered onscreen via betrayal and whose demise is because of someone who ultimately doesn’t even gain that much from her death? Beautiful, I want 500.

Cersei is terrified (which. yeah of course she is.) but she went out knowing that everything she did in her life wasn’t completely meaningless, that her pursuit of safety and security at all costs ultimately ended in someone she loved trying to comfort her. She gains that sense of comfort and self-awareness she always wanted in chasing after power, but not in the way she had ever envisioned. Not because of any specific thing she did or any specific enemy she defeated, not because of a particularly intelligent power play or who her father was or which house she aligned herself with, but simply because she loved someone who loved her and that alone was enough. In her final moments, in a way completely at odds with everything she has ever tried to do, she finally finds acceptance. The tragedy is that she can’t enjoy it longer. What a poetically sad, cathartic, fitting end to her quest for self-preservation.

• When I wish they had died. / If I think they should’ve died.

She almost, almost makes it to the end. She outlasts the White Walkers (which I think is valid because she was nowhere near the battle, and, ultimately, her primary enemy is her own penchant for self-destruction, in a way most of the other characters’ aren’t). For years she hangs on out of spite, and no human can kill her though many have tried or wanted to. Ultimately, she can’t compete with dragon WMD’s and a crumbling city. She did sort of achieve her objective. No specific person killed her. It took nonhuman entities to succeed at that. Fits in nicely with the “So you got what you wanted but not quite” theme of the series. Obviously I wish that she and Jaime could escape to Pentos with their child and live peacefully forever, but a) they would be hiding forever to prevent the people they’ve harmed (so like...the whole realm) from coming after them which I just don’t think they’d have much patience for, and b) I really don’t think Cersei would ever give up her quest for power and ruling the world because she would never feel safe or like her existence was meaningful otherwise. In order for the story to have anything remotely resembling a peaceful or happy ending for Westeros at large, she has to die. Which makes me very sad because I LOVE HER, but narrative cohesion is also a thing.

#cersei lannister #meta #(is this meta?? idk)#jaime x cersei #got #light of the west and my life #cersei meta

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deliciousmeta · 4 years

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The problem with redemptive suffering: A Jewish Evil Regal perspective

Note: This is a repost from my personal blog.

“The Jewish perspective is that this world is the focus and therefore suffering stinks and should be minimized. Christianity holds that the next world is more important than this world and that suffering ennobles.” –Luke Ford, “Jewish vs. Christian Views on Suffering”

“[T]he idea that suffering horribly should make people more morally attuned, and behave more ethically […] is more a fatuous truism than an authentic truth. The notion that suffering makes anyone better may have deep intuitive and socio-cultural roots, especially in Christian tradition, but it is far from a demonstrable axiom.

"The historical record suggests that survivors of the Holocaust did not necessarily emerge as more sensitive to human suffering than people who had not gone through the Holocaust. Nor should they have. Since there is no such thing as an archetypical Holocaust survivor, there is no such thing as a typical response. Each person entered the Holocaust with his or her distinctive characteristics, endured a unique set of Holocaust-related circumstances and emerged from the Holocaust with his or her own personal perceptions, lessons and conclusions. Undoubtedly, some survivors emerged with a heightened awareness toward human suffering and a resultant moral sensibility, but obviously others did not. The only common denominator regarding the suffering of the Holocaust is that it inevitably included extreme pain and left an indelible scar.” –Robert Rozett, “Suffering Doesn’t Beget Moral Capital”

These are a direct contradiction to one of the one of the more pervasive underlying assumptions behind people’s interpretations of Regina’s behavior. Namely, that the suffering she endured should have ennobled her in some way. That she could, and should, without any help whatsoever, be able to shrug off the effects of years of abuse, trauma, and manipulation to make healthy, positive decisions.

By contrast, this perspective suggests otherwise. It seems to ask that when a young woman is subjected to great torment, what the hell do you expect to happen?

“Central to the Jewish response to suffering is a staunch rejection of the belief in its redemptive power. […] It leads to a tortured spirit and a pessimistic outlook on life. It scars our psyches and brings about a cynical consciousness, devoid of hope. Suffering causes us to dig out uncertainty in the hearts of our fellows and to be envious of other people’s happiness. If individuals do become better as a result of their suffering, it is despite the fact that they suffered, not because of it. Ennobling of character comes from triumph over suffering, rather than its endurance.” –Schmuley Boteach, Judaism for Everyone: Renewing Your Life Through the Vibrant Lessons of the Jewish Faith“

This is an interesting rebuttal of the idea that people earn happiness because they are good. In fact, it seems to imply the inverse: that a certain measure of happiness is necessary for us to do good.

Despite what we say about free will and our choices, what the above quote suggests is that in the Jewish worldview, suffering undermines our ability to make real choices because we’re constantly struggling against the effects of our trauma or unconsciously acting it out.

This is not fatalism. It’s acknowledging that where we come from and what we’ve gone through have powerful impacts on the choices we can make. Some of us–perhaps most–have learned some limiting or destructive things about ourselves and about life, and if approached by the right person in the right way at the right time, we can learn new ways. But we can’t always know or do that without help.

"In Judaism, suffering doesn’t define us. Our ability to respond to the suffering of others does. We don’t see suffering as expiation or cleansing of sin, as do some other faiths.” –Laurie Zoloth, interview

“So many people search for a reason why people suffer. They want to redeem tragedy by giving it meaning. Suffering ennobles the spirit, they say. It makes you more mature. It helps you focus on what’s important in life.

"I would argue that suffering has no purpose, no redeeming qualities, and any attempts to infuse it with rich significance are deeply misguided.

"Of course suffering can lead ultimately to a positive outcome. […] But does it have to come about this way? Is suffering the only way to learn goodness?

"Jewish values maintain that there is no good that comes from suffering that could not have come through a more blessed means. […]

"Here is another way that Jewish values are so strongly distinguished from other value systems. Many religions believes that suffering is redemptive. […]

"But Judaism, in prophesying a perfect Messianic future where there is no death or pain ultimately rejects the suffering-is-redemptive narrative. Suffering isn’t a blessing, it’s a curse. Jews are obligated to alleviate all human misery. Suffering leaves you bitter rather than blessed, scarred rather than humble. Few endure suffering without serious and lasting trauma. […]” –Schmuley Boteach, “No Holds Barred: The Truth About Suffering”

If suffering creates Evil Queens, these quotes imply that even more suffering is not going to redeem an Evil Queen. At this point, wishing more suffering on someone who has already suffered so much is not instructive but sadistic. Even if she brought a lot of it on herself, indifference toward her suffering or hoping that she suffers even more simply does not work. It only creates an endless loop of pain and misery.

And if Jews wanted eternal damnation for their sins, they would have become Christians.

#ouat meta #regina mills #regina meta #jewish meta #redemptive suffering

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beneaththetangles · 4 years

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BtT Light Novel Club Chapter 20 (Part 2): Tearmoon Empire, Vol. 1

And here is the second part of our discussion on the light novel Tearmoon Empire, Vol. 1! If you haven’t yet, please check out Part 1 of our discussion first.

We’ve got a lot to talk about, so let’s jump right in! Just like with Part 1, Jeskai Angel and Gaheret are joining me in the discussion.

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4. Is there a “god” in this story?

Jeskai Angel: It would easier to write off references to deity as a way to evoke Roman Catholic France…if there weren’t so many examples. One of the last things OG Anne says to Mia in the original timeline is, “I pray that the gods will smile upon you. May you go with their blessing.” Immediately afterward, Mia dies and travels back in time. Coincidence? Ludwig thinks “Surely, she is a great leader bestowed upon us by the heavens…” The narrator makes light of this, but is attributing the situation to a god really so farfetched? Mia died then traveled back in time eight years, accompanied by a diary stained by her own blood. How? Why? While gods don’t come up in a major way, the visit to the church in the slum is another reminder of religion. After Mia arrives at the academy, the escort captain says “May God be with you in your new life at the academy.” Well, Mia is living a “new life” in more ways than one, and again I must ask: how? I couldn’t help but ponder whether the chill Mia feels when she almost ignores Tiona, that sense that she was at a crossroads, “almost as if… As if the decision had already been made,” might be providential guidance. The narrative here doesn’t mention any god, so maybe I’m reading too much into the scene though. On various occasions people compare Mia to the moon goddess, which doesn’t prove much, but is another way the story keeps reminds us about the idea of gods.

There’s also the Duchy of Belluga / its ruler. They form a clear analogue to the pope / the territory historically ruled by the pope, sometimes called the Papal States. It’s played for humor when Mia writes in her diary, “Basically, being the wise person that I am, God in all His Greatness saw fit to make me the chosen one…To put it simply, it is my duty to save the Empire.” Leaving aside the “wise person” bit, remember we’re dealing with postmortem time travel. Is it really that unreasonable for Mia to see divine providence in this?

Again, maybe all these examples are just meant to give the setting the flavor of eighteenth century Roman Catholicism and don’t imply anything about an active role for deity in the story. But I wonder.

Gaheret: I think that there are three ways religion is present in the story: first, as all time travel stories (I would argue), this is a story concerning a fate or vocation. In this case, it is a vocation. Mia is called to be a force for good, and directed towards that end by Providence. And there is a physical reminder of that mission: the diary. I find it sort of odd that the diary would keep changing, taking into account what she does to the timeline, yet she does not expend all day reading it and searching for a way to change what will happen the next day, given her approach to the rest of what is happening.

The other two are: as a force for justice and charity, which clearly presides both the approach of Rafina and that of the international church which aids in preventing the plague and adopts an orphan boy. Placed at the slums, it works for the poor.

And as a political force, given its role in Rafina´s kingdom. We still don´t know the specifics, it is true. There is a moment when Mia is on the verge of praying, but she does not, and as Jeskai notes, at first she comically reflects that she is chosen by God. Which, being this kind of story, must be literally true. I wonder what will happen if Rafina, Keithwood and the rest will think if they learn of Mia´s experience, and how will they square it with the rest of their beliefs, of which we do not know much.

stardf29: Well, when it comes down to it, there are two clearly supernatural elements in play in the story here: Mia’s return to the past, and also the diary that tells her how events will lead to her execution, which even changes as she performs different actions to account for those and show how they might still lead to doom. With no other obvious magical elements in the story, I have to assume that there’s at least some “god” that is at work here.

The question then is, based on that assumption, how much that god is like the Christian God. The thing here is, we have a situation where this “god” seems to have turned back time in order to change the course of history. Now, the whole concept of time travel is one that is very hard to grasp due to how it seems nearly impossible in real life, to say nothing of its philosophical/theological implications. Is this an actual rewind of time? Is this an alternate universe that had followed the same events of history until the point where Mia basically gains the knowledge of events in a parallel universe? Or was Mia’s past life beyond her reincarnation point basically just one long and extremely visceral prophecy that never actually happened, which was shown to her alongside the diary in order to avert a terrible fate? Each one would have different implications on what the “god” of this world is like. And really, at this point, I have no idea what the case is here. I’m definitely curious on this point, but for now, I can at least appreciate that there are higher powers in play here.

Jeskai Angel: I found it curious that throughout the book, there seemed to references to a variety of deities. One is just called “God.” Another is identified as the “moon goddess.” And there’s also broader mention of “the gods.” It’s unclear to me for now which if any of these is actually “real” in-story.

5. This novel seems to take inspiration from European history, particularly the French Revolution. What do you think about the similarities and differences between the story and the history of our world?

Jeskai Angel: Tearmoon Empire uses its background material quite well. This is not historical fiction, thankfully, just fiction loosely inspired by history. The author paints in broad strokes, piggybacking on popular knowledge of the French Revolution to help tell the story, without being slavishly beholden to historical minutia. A great example of this is the “Let them eat meat” quote attributed to Mia. Marie Antoinette never said “Let them eat cake,” but the quote is so strongly identified with her at a pop culture level that putting a paraphrase of it in Mia’s mouth becomes an effective way to tell readers Mia should bring to mind this historical figure. The rest of the book is similar, using historical allusions or resemblances to give readers a feel for the setting and characters.

I also love the overall premise, using fiction to give a happy ending (or so we hope!) to a tragic historical figure. About a decade ago, I took a course on the French Revolution at FSU, under Professor Rafe Blaufarb. It was my first time studying the French Revolution in any depth, and I came away feeling a lot of sympathy for Louis XVI and Marie. So a story where Marie Mia goes back in time to avert the revolution strongly appeals to me.

stardf29: All I’ll say here is that, whereas it seems like for you two, your interest in the French Revolution got you more interested in Tearmoon Empire, for me, it was the opposite: Tearmoon Empire got me more interested in the French Revolution. So that’s +1 for light novels encouraging academic learning. Yay!

Jeskai Angel: I like that Mia and the Tearmoon government more generally are not simplistically presented as evil. Some are rotten apples, as we see at the highest levels of the nobility, but they weren’t all horrible people. Some, like Ludwig, meant well but lacked power to effect change. Some, like Mia, simply aren’t equipped to deal with the disaster. She was selfish and arrogant in her first life, but hardly a monster. It’s impossible to celebrate her death as the story opens, only pity her. Especially in the first timeline, Mia was flawed yet also faced unfair condemnation. This again fits nicely with history. Despite a few philosophers braying about absolute monarchy, in actual practice Louis XVI’s power was far from absolute. (If France really had been an absolute monarchy, maybe the revolution could have been prevented!) Like Mia, Louis and Marie were not educated and equipped to deal with the challenges they faced. Many of the problems related to the revolution preceded them or were beyond their control. They were flawed and made mistakes, yes, but they weren’t evil monsters who deserved to die.

Gaheret: Yes. And even if that was not the case, the tyranny of the revolutionaries was far worse than that the government of the Monarchy. It actually lead to a period of madness and totalitarian terror, followed by an actual Emperor, Napoleon, that created an actual secret police, tried to conquer the world and assasinated the Duke of Enghien. Among other things, because the old France, with all its flaws, actually had some checks and balances between aristocracy, monarchy, the cities, the customs, the Church…

Jeskai Angel: True. So much unnecessary bloodshed and death.

Gaheret: Discrimination among the three states was one thing. A national Church, the Terror and the massive murder of priests, nobles and people of La Vendee was another, and far worse.

In the case of the Tearmoon Empire, things may be more different, but I´m all for Mia.

6. To what extent do you consider Mia “selfish”? Does her acting primarily out of self-interest diminish the value of her actions?

Jeskai Angel: This comes back around to the issue we keep harping on, that Mia is an impressively realistic example of how complicated we humans are. Undoubtedly, some of what she says and does is ultimately motivated by selfishness. Where the narrator goes wrong, in my view, is in talking as if that selfishness negates everything else. She was selfish, period, end of story. I don’t think that works.

When Mia drags her retainers to the slum and gives away an expensive piece of jewelry to help fund medical care for the indigent, there was certainly some selfishness involved (e.g., I don’t want to die on the guillotine again). But as you read her words on this occasion, is it really plausible that she was acting for purely selfish reasons and completely inadvertently spoke in a way sounded more benevolent? Again I remind the jury that the narrator never suggests Mia was a liar who schemed to trick people into thinking she was kind and good. The narrator just claims Mia is a doofus who expresses herself poorly.

When Mia first encounters Tiona and stands up against the bullies, there was certainly some selfishness involved (e.g., I don’t want to die on the guillotine again). But as you read her words on this occasion, is it really plausible that she was acting for purely selfish reasons and completely inadvertently spoke in a way sounded more benevolent? Again I remind the jury that the narrator never suggests Mia was a liar who schemed to trick people into thinking she was kind and good. The narrator just claims Mia is a doofus who expresses herself poorly.

What is more plausible? That Mia is such a derp that she tries to be selfish and keeps failing at it by accidentally sounding wise and compassionate without meaning to? Or that she isn’t purely selfish and her fine-sounding words and deeds are more genuine than the narrator, and perhaps Mia herself, realize?

I think again of the how before Abel’s fight, Mia tries to think of something clever and diplomatic to say…and then wishes him victory, and, according to the narrator, “let slip her true thoughts.” There’s something similar in the scene where Mia tries to convince herself that Abel is just a little kid and there’s nothing special about being with him, and is puzzled with herself as to why she would be so flustered. Is it not reasonable to suppose to that on other occasions, too, Mia’s motivations may have been less purely selfish and more complex than she and/or the narrator realize?

I think of Jesus’ teaching that a tree is known by its fruit. Mia promotes Anne and protects her from workplace harassment. Mia prevents a good civil servant from losing his job and being banished to the hinterlands for trivial reasons. Mia personally leads an effort to provide medical care for the poor by visiting the slum with her retainers and donating that valuable jewelry. Mia saves Elise’s life by becoming her patron and ensuring she’ll have the income she needs to survive. Mia protects both Tiona and Abel by standing up to bullies (notwithstanding how cowardly the narrator says she is). Mia befriends friendless Chloe. Would a person who isn’t good, and who isn’t trying to look good in front of others, really say and do all this stuff? Going by the “fruit test” Jesus taught, I feel compelled to suspect there’s more good in Mia than she or the narrator are willing to admit.

Yes, there’s some selfishness or other ill motives mixed in, but the same is true for every one of us. Why do we obey God? Because we fear God’s judgment? Because we love God himself? Because we want to avoid a guilty conscience? Because we want to go to heaven? Because we want to look like good people to others? Because…etc.? Who but God can hope to answer these questions? But if partially tainted motives are enough to devalue one’s actions, then nothing anyone does ever has any worth. This is part why reading this book was so powerful for me. As I read this work of fiction, I can see how wrong it is for the narrator to harp so much on Mia’s flaws & use them to ignore or minimize her virtues. And I could see that the same is true of myself. Do I ever act out of purely virtuous motives? Probably not. But that doesn’t justify treating everything I do as having diminished value. I want Mia’s good deeds to matter, despite her selfishness and other flaws, because I want my efforts to do good to matter, despite my selfishness and other flaws.

Gaheret: I would add that, apart from these signs that she cares for others, Abel and Anne especially, saving yourself of three years of imprisonment and of being unjustly condemned to the guillotine is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The narrator may say that she is a chicken, but it’s not him (presumably) who may go to execution at twenty. But the important thing, in my view, is that she is growing. If she sometimes does good deeds without realizing or intending them, that’s a sign of hope that one day she will, and a gift, too. I am interested in seeing her triumph against her defects, but I find her to be a very enjoyable character just as she is.

stardf29: Okay, so the reason I asked this question was because this book made me think of something. Mainly: is it really that bad to be self-interested? After all, one can argue that all of our actions, even our most “selfless” ones, are ultimately done in our self-interest: we help others at the expense of our short-term interests because we believe doing so will be better for us in the long term. Even something like following Christ and living a Christian life is something Christians do because we believe it is both the best way to live our present life, and also because we believe in great things in the next life.

Maybe, what we think of as “selfishness” is really just “short-sighted self-interest”: doing things only for what we can gain in the short term, without thinking about how it might ultimately hurt us in some way or another. And that leads us to Mia…

Mia’s actions might be supposedly “selfish”, but what is the big difference between her actions in the current timeline versus the past? It’s that now, she’s acting with a far more long-term view of things, in particular how certain actions made with short-term gain in mind may lead to her head rolling in the future. And with that view in mind, the vast majority of her self-interested actions become very helpful to the people around her as well as herself. And that view, likewise, kickstarts her mind into starting to be considerate of others.

The fact that she’s still mainly thinking of her own interests makes for some good comedy, but I think it also reveals an interesting truth in that being self-interested isn’t bad in and of itself. The key is what we decide our self-interests are, whether they be short-term benefits that can bite us later in life, or long-term goals that help us grow and prevent (sometimes literally) painful regrets. And while Mia has room to grow in this way, having a self-interest of “avoid a revolt that will get my head chopped off” is quite a huge… head start.

…I don’t think Mia liked that pun. My apologies.

On that note, one specific example that sticks out to me right now: Mia selling her prized hairpiece in order to help fund a hospital. Her motivation might have been as simple as “that way it won’t end up in the hands of those horrible revolutionaries”, but in that moment, Mia has grasped one of Christianity’s big teachings: the impermanence of physical possessions. Heck, that’s something even I admittedly struggle with sometimes, and Mia has grasped that concept pretty much perfectly. I can’t see that as anything but admirable.

Jeskai Angel: I think maybe the difference between enlightened self-interest and selfishness is not time (i.e., long-term vs. short-term benefits), but that the former does not exclude looking out for the interests of others, and the latter does. A person can act partially out of self-interest without elevating their interest above the good of everyone else, but a truly selfish person is always willing to prioritize themselves over anyone else.

stardf29: I agree with you, but that does bring up an interesting thought: perhaps always prioritizing ourselves over others is the most damaging thing we can do to ourselves.

Also, when I say “short-term” versus “long-term”, I’m not strictly speaking about time, but “scope” in general. Which includes more than just time, but also things like our emotional well-being and other psychological factors that one could probably do an entire graduate thesis on. There’s probably a better phrase than “long-term/short-term” here…

Jeskai Angel: Maybe “long-term” = effort to consider all the consequences, “short-term” = paying attention only to desired consequences?

Gaheret: Well, Aristotle would say that we always move when attracted by goods, which are goods for ourselves and also open to others, as common goods. Freedom consists in the ability to choose one of these goods over others, and a good use of freedom would be the “right reason”, which brings us to the best we can achieve, integrally considered. Good things usually give us some pleasure and are also beneficial in the long term, because they are in accord with our nature. Beyond Aristotle, one could say that such a decision can also be a vehicle of love: you choose to bring good things to your friends that you share, in a way, to remove obstacles, to enjoy reality… Ideally, growing in virtue means also learning to be attracted by higher goods and enjoy them more fully. So, there is always some good for us, direct or indirect, in helping others. We are not totally disinterested: only God is, because God does not need anything, and gives of His abundance.

So, in this view, the problem with being an egoist is that either one does not follow the right reason because of a blind spot concerning others, as in the one who eats all the cake when it would be best to enjoy it together, or that one loses part of the good he could enjoy. For example, if Mia defends Tiona without thinking about Tiona herself, she gets less of that interaction that if she appreciated the good there is in defending others when they need it.

This sometimes happens to her, but less and less. She is not so clueless now, and growing.

7. What are your favorite quotes or moments from the novel?

Jeskai Angel: How am I supposed to answer this?! There are SO MANY wonderful lines and scenes in this book. For sheer awesomeness, I think it’s hard to top the scene where Mia rescues Tiona from the bullies:

“Excuse me, but what exactly are you girls doing? …It seemed to me that you were behaving rather rudely toward one of my subjects. …You see, I love all my subjects, and I love them equally. Even the child of the poorest beggar shall not be denied my affection. No matter who they are, so long as they belong to the Empire, I will not condone any discourtesy toward them.”

If any scenes rivals the above, it might be the duel between Abel and The Artist Formerly Known As Remno’s First Prince, especially after Abel hears his brother trashtalk Mia and threaten to abuse her:

“‘You can call me whatever you want. Mock me. Insult me. I don’t care. But,’ Abel stared at his brother with a piercing gaze, ‘if you say one more bad word about Princess Mia…’ He thought of the girl known as ‘the Great Sage of the Empire.’ He thought of the light she’d brought to his world. For her to be robbed of that radiant aura… Was absolutely unacceptable. …’I won’t allow you to insult her any further!'”

Cue the OHKO.

On a humorous note, I’ll offer the scene before that fight: “Mia didn’t actually think badly of Abel’s brother. She… didn’t think anything of him at all, in fact. She’d completely forgotten he existed until this very moment.” What makes this so great is that throughout the book, Mia keeps forming connections she didn’t have in her first life, seeking allies, making a point of remembering names and faces; she is far more humble and caring and interested in other people than she was in her first life. She even remembers the names of other people’s servants! The ONLY person in the whole story she so completely disregards in her second life…is Abel’s brother.

Gaheret: When the worldbuilding started becoming evocative and unique for me: “The Azure Moon Ministry was the administrative agency for the capital city. The Golden Moon Ministry handled taxes. The Scarlet Moon Ministry was the administrative agency for the surrounding rural regions. The Jade Moon Ministry handled foreign affairs. Finally, the Ebony Moon Ministry commanded the seven armies of the empire”.

Despite not liking Sion on the whole, I agree with Jeskai that this fragment about him is quite compelling:

“To Sion, the ability to feel righteous fury — to be justly angry in the face of evil deeds — was an essential quality for those who reigned over the people. However, how many people could truly empathize with the suffering of others? How many could go as far as to feel anger as if they themselves had been wronged? Even Sion, who had been ready to step in himself, would have done so out of a sense of duty. It came from the mind, not the heart. Faced with Mia’s genuine anger toward injustice, he felt that he saw in her the makings of a ruler who truly lived up to his ideals”.

“Sion Sol Sunkland was born the eldest son of the King of Sunkland. “He who reigns over the people must believe firmly in fairness and hold justice close to his heart.”

This was funny, too:

“Unbeknownst to her, the “knowledge” that she was counting on was entirely based on the romance novel Anne’s sister had written. In other words… Not once did she suspect that Anne — five years her senior — was a complete novice at relationships who had never herself been in love before. “How promising,” she said, completely unaware of her terrible misconception. “With you at my side, Anne, I feel as though I’ve gained an army ten thousand strong!”

This was a great way to introduce a character:

“Abel Remno knew he was a loser. Likewise, he knew Remno was a second-rate kingdom. It possessed neither the rich history and tradition of Sunkland nor the sheer might of Tearmoon. Outmatched by even Belluga in influence and authority, it failed to garner any real respect from its neighbors”.

And this one, again about Abel:

“He focused every ounce of his efforts on one single thing. He raised his sword, and he swung it down. He repeated it. Then he did it again, faster. And faster. He devoted all his time to honing the motion. Ever since the night of the dance party, he’d done nothing else. Day after day, he poured his heart and soul into practicing that one swing. And now, after all the sweat and fatigue and pain, it was time. He swung. Today, he would conquer genius. Today, he would slay a god!”

stardf29: So as I mentioned earlier, one of my favorite moments is when Mia sold her beloved hairpin in order to help fund a hospital to prevent a plague. Two great quotes to go with this moment:

“No matter how precious the item, no matter how closely you try to hold onto it, there will be a day… It may go missing, or it may break… but its time will come. Knowing this, the most we can do is to use it well, and thereby give it meaning.”

And then, for something on the funnier side:

And not only was it stolen, it was stolen by a hooligan of a man, rude and violent and with entirely too much beard to be proper. Not that it’d be okay if she was robbed by a handsome fellow with a dashing crop of finely kempt hair, but anyway…

And then a bit later, during a tea party:

“Whatever I did, I did following my heart. There’s no deeper meaning to it than that.” Which was really just a more diplomatic version of, “What? I did it ’cause I wanted to. Got a problem with that, punk?”

Later on, Mia forgives a horse for sneezing on her:

“Oh please. Why would I possibly want to have a horse killed over a dress?”

For Mia, it was extremely obvious which one was more valuable. A dress couldn’t help her run from the revolutionary army. A horse could.

And, finally, the one point where I am in complete solidarity with the narrator:

Anne and Tiona seemed equally mesmerized by the two princes as they watched with wide, spellbound eyes. As for Liora… She poked at the meat in the sandwich, confirmed that it was well-roasted, and nodded to herself in satisfaction.

Liora, you see, was a girl who knew what was important.

8. Final Comments

Jeskai Angel: I want to express how greatly I appreciated many-short-chapters format of the book. So many LNs have like three 80-page chapters, and it’s stupid. Like, if the chapters are obnoxiously long, why bother with any chapter divisions at all? As Tearmoon Empire demonstrates, chapter divisions are not some kind of natural resource that needs to be rationed. The capacity to include another chapter break in a book is never depleted. Please, authors the world over, if you’re reading this, I beg of you, write using more but shorter chapters. Please and thank you.

stardf29: I think the whole “having lots of chapters” thing is left over from the novel’s origins as a web novel, where it’s more natural to just post a small chapter regularly. Though many such web novels, upon transitioning to light novel form, get several small chapters combined into larger chapters. So this might be more of an editorial decision. Maybe it’s because in Japan, light novels are still a largely physical medium, and combining chapters saves paper by reducing page breaks? It’s definitely better for e-books to have more chapters because it’s easier to jump to a specific part of the book with hyperlinked table of contents.

Whatever the case, looks like Tearmoon Empire kept all of its chapters in the transition to light novel form. Maybe it’s because each chapter has a witty little title? So maybe the real advice is not just to write lots of small chapters, but to give each chapter a title so that your editor has a reason not to combine them all into larger chapters.

Gaheret: I can´t wait for the next volume! I want it to go full French Revolution.

Jeskai Angel: According to the Amazon page for vol. 2 (which becomes available 19 July), the next book does feature a revolution.

Earlier when we were speculating about the narrator, someone (Gaheret, I think?) suggested the narrator might be an older Mia in the future. But I remembered a certain comment by the narrator, about how Mia disliked her bad ending so much, she restarted the whole game to play over again. It’s an obvious video game joke. But assuming Mia’s world is reminiscent of late 18th/early 19th century France, an older Mia wouldn’t have the frame of reference to make such a comment.

stardf29: Ah yes, there is that to take into account. So… maybe the narrator is one of Mia’s descendants, after Mia has told of her story to her family and they started to realize how things got misunderstood, and then as her story continued to be passed down the generations, that sentiment that she was “misunderstood” also got embellished. In this way, the somewhat unreliableness of the narrator can be explained.

As a final comment for me, I should say that I really like the illustrations in this volume. They are clean, cute, and show quite a lot of emotion. I definitely wish there were more of them, but we still got a good batch here.

=====

Whew, that was a lot to talk about! Of course, we would love to hear what you think about the novel, so post your own answers and thoughts in the comments!

As a reminder, we will be discussing Infinite Dendrogram, Vol. 4 next! The discussion for that will be posted on June 23rd. See you then!

#Light Novels #Christianity #Tearmoon Empire #Tearmoon Teikoku Monogatari #Articles #Author: stardf29 #Author: JeskaiAngel #Author: Gaharet

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dearskz · 6 years

Text

look at me pt.1

Genre: slight angst, fluff, school au, unrequited love au

Pairing: reader x jeongin (i.n) ft. hyunjin

Length: 1,622 words

Description: Will you ever look at Jeongin as anything else besides a best friend? (third-person narrative)

Author’s side note: This song inspired this scenario :) ALSO DON’T FORGET TO STREAM I AM YOU!

Part 2 (masterlist)

Some people spend their entire lives searching for ‘the one’. Jeongin was lucky enough to have known his ‘one’ his entire life. She was the one who defended him from bullies. She was the one who understood him more than he understood himself. The one who has always been by his side no matter the circumstances. Sounds perfect right? There’s just one slight problem: she doesn’t know that she’s the one. Not yet at least. Jeongin plans on telling her today, Valentine’s Day.

For them, Valentine’s Day has always been the total opposite of romantic. It was the day where they would go to each other’s houses in their PJ’s and watch horror movies while eating chicken feet until completely knocking out due to food coma. It was a tradition that they swore to never break, but Jeongin is going to have to break his promise today.

There were several instances where Jeongin was very close to confessing to y/n, but the thought of risking a 13-year friendship just wasn’t worth it. Jeongin and y/n have known each other since kindergarten when Jeongin was 4 and y/n was 5. One day y/n noticed a small, chubby Jeongin being teased for his size on the playground and decided to stand up for him. Although having a 1-year age difference, they managed to stick together like glue, always waiting for each other after class, walking home together, doing the typical things that best friends do. Sure they had a couple of friends in their grade, but no one understood them better than each other. Seeing that most of the people they knew were superficial and materialistic, it only made sense that they gravitated towards each other since that was one of the few things they hated in life.

The relationship y/n and Jeongin shared was special and irreplaceable. They did everything and anything together. They also kept no secrets from one another, which is why Jeongin ultimately chose to risk it all. His love and admiration for y/n was the only secret he has been hiding from her since they met. It was hard not to fall in love with y/n. From her kind heart and intelligence to her captivating eyes and breathtaking smile, she gave Jeongin a reason to look forward to school. His little secret has been killing him for years and he couldn’t bear it any longer, he needed to know if y/n could look at him as something more than a best friend and more importantly, a little brother.

It was the dreaded bro-zone that many of the less-fortunate fall into. Jeongin was desperately hoping he wasn’t one of them. He knew that it was something that was out of his control though. He would still love and respect y/n regardless, yet he had the slightest amount of hope that she felt the same way.

“Good morning sunshine! Can you believe the number of chocolate wrappers scattered all over school? I wish I had a broom to clean it up.” Y/n appeared beside Jeongin’s locker, shaking his thoughts and bringing him back to reality.

“Ah glad to see you realizing your dream of being a janitor early.” Jeongin poked teasingly at y/n. Although she was older and often very motherly towards him, he still loved to joke around because he loved seeing her reactions.

“Bold of you to assume that I’m starting now, I’ve been training since day one. Janitors don’t get enough appreciation, they’re hard-working motherfuckers.” Y/n snapped back while shaking her head.

Jeongin chuckled, “Yo, straight up facts. I’ll buy you your first uniform.”

“How sweet of you,” y/n laughed and lightly punched Jeongin’s shoulder, “So, what do you have planned for us today on the most romantic day of the year?” Y/n said as they made their way down the hallway towards their classes.

Jeongin pulled out his imaginary list and adjusted his invisible glasses, “Let’s see, after school, we are going straight to the convenience store to get some garlic parmesan chips with garlic dip, because who are we kissing amirite? Then we get to my house, order some chicken feet, sundae (Korean blood sausage), and coca-cola. A side of kimchi and pa muchim (Korean scallion salad) to go with it of course.”

“dELicIOUS. I love it when I have to brush my teeth and tongue to the depths of hell to get rid of stinky breath.” Y/n joked. “What movies do we have lined up today?”

“We got The Shining, The Babadook, and Carrie. Some cult favourites, as usual.”

“Carrie? We watched that 3 Valentine Days ago, and we watched The Babadook when it came out.” Y/n squinted at Jeongin in disbelief. It wasn’t like him to forget things like this. “What’s up Jeongin?” Y/n stopped in her tracks, stepping in front of Jeongin to prevent him from avoiding her question.

Jeongin fiddled with his backpack straps. He knew he should’ve chosen different movies but he was so focused on his confession that their movie marathon completely slipped his mind.

“Nothing, nothing! I just thought we could watch them again, I know how much you loved Carrie.” He looked y/n in the eyes and gave her a small smile in an attempt to hide his small lie.

Y/n raised her brow and sighed, “Alright, well I guess I can’t argue with that.” She spun around and began walking again.

Jeongin let out a breath of relief and followed, wiping a bead of sweat from his brow in the process.

“You know Jeongin, I always wondered what would happen to our tradition if we found someone we liked. I realized throughout our 13-year friendship that you never told me about your crushes.”

Jeongin was slightly taken aback by your statement. ‘That was because I was always crushing on you,’ Jeongin thought to himself. His cheeks flushed but thankfully, y/n was still staring down the hall ahead of her. “Well... I guess we’re just going to have to find out.”

Y/n whipped her head towards Jeongin so fast that she could’ve broken it, “What do you mean by that? Don’t tell me, YOU LIKE SOMEONE?” Y/n’s face lit up and her eyes began to sparkle. “OHOHOHO WHO IS IT? SPILL THE TEA.”

“You’ll find out by the end of the day.” He kept his gaze on the students at the end of the hall, he knew that if he looked at her, he would’ve given in to those beautiful deep eyes of hers.

“You’re confessing today?!.” To be honest, Y/n was kind of hurt by the fact that she didn’t know about his supposed crush until today, the day he was going to confess. How could he not tell his best friend? “Lucky bastard, they better be special because not just anyone deserves to be crushed on by my best friend!”

“Yeah, special..” He smiled softly at y/n before they reached her classroom. They stopped in front of the door and y/n turned to Jeongin.

“Well, see you at lunch! Good luck with your bio test. REMEMBER, THE MITOCHONDRIA IS THE-”

Jeongin rolled his eyes, “POWERHOUSE OF THE CELL! YES THANK YOU, as if we haven’t learned that every year since 6th grade.”

Y/n giggled, putting her hand on Jeongin's shoulder making his heart flutter a little, “I was just testing your knowledge, you’re gonna ace it, I know it!” She flashed him a warm smile, her eyes turning into little crescent moons and the apples of her cheeks becoming pink and round.

~~~

*Ring ding dong*

The bell rang as y/n sat down at her desk, pulling out her textbook and pencil case when she heard the chair next to her creak. She turned her head to see what made the noise and was met with a familiar face.

“Already pulling out the homework? You know that if the teacher isn’t here 15 minutes after class starts, we can leave right?” He playfully nudged.

“Hyunjin you know that’s a myth, and I’m on student council, I have to set a good example our fellow classmates.”

“You didn’t do last night’s homework did you?”

“No sir, I did not.” y/n admitted, lowering her head in shame.

“Here,” Hyunjin put his notebook on y/n’s desk, “just copy mine. Hurry before Mr. Park comes.”

Y/n gasped, “Oh my gosh you are a lifesaver, bless your soul. I owe you one.” She beamed as she furiously copied last night’s math equations.

“Okay, then how about going on a date with me this Friday night?”

Y/n choked on her spit, “A date?!” She felt her heart race at 100 miles per second while she was trying to process what just happened.

“Sorry, is that too much to ask? You don’t have to say yes, there’s really no pressure.” Y/n looked up and noticed a rose tint appear on those squishable cheeks of his, “I just have a lot of fun hanging out with you at school and kind of want to spend more time getting to know you better outside of school.”

“Hyunjin I…” Y/n’s mind went blank. ‘How do I respond??? What if I mess up?’ she thought to herself.

“I know its sudden… how about this, give me your answer at the end of the day. I won’t be offended if you say no so don’t worry about it too much!” He smiled, putting his hand on top of hers, giving it a reassuring squeeze before taking his notebook back.

“Wait Hyunji-” Y/n was cut off by a loud slam, almost jolting her out of her seat.

“Good morning class! Sorry, I’m late!” Mr. Park came in winded and visibly exhausted. “My morning jog was longer than I expected. Please open up your textbooks to page 325.”

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some-cookie-crumbz · 6 years

Note

What do you think about Keith/Pidge interactions this season? Is there any chance we will see any fics from you basing on se7?

Let me just answer that second question with a definitive:

If I didn’t take advantage of what we got this season, Iwouldn’t be appreciating it right! X3

As for their interactions, I loved all the subtle ways thatthey tied into not only their individual characters, but also theirrelationship with each other and some of the other team dynamics too!! I’mgoing to do some additional expositing on what I think this also says aboutsome of their other interactions in earlier seasons, too, as well as maybe castsome shade towards kl@ance whoops my hand slipped so I’ll toss this under aRead More for those not interested in listening to me prattle on aboutcharacter writing/ subtle relationship development.

I’m counting this because I want to but COSMO PRECIOUS BABYHE PROTEC HIS DOG-MOM SO WELL!!! I really love Cosmo – his design, his littleattitude, just… I’m love! – but he was just such a good boy in this scene! Iloved how he knew exactly where everyone needed to actually be when the battlestarted and just kind of stepped in to handle it. I love how Keith chidedAllura about him being lonely that was just such a cute thing. And how Pidgeclearly meant that as a snarky comment and he JUST FUCKING RAN WITH IT! LIKE “WELL,SHE CAN’T GIVE ME PETS NOW BUT SHE WILL ONCE THESE FUCKS ARE GONE!” And just…Ugh. Such a Good Boy™. We are blessed to have such a wonderful pupper as ourships guardian, truly.

THE FUCKING GAME SHOW EPISODE Okay, so, like, I loved seeinghow their expressions were so similar throughout the whole ordeal! I love howPidge figured out the Blade image because Keith’s knife is important to him! Iloved their similar expressions towards the end! ALSO BECAUSE NO ONE HASMENTIONED IT YET BUT!!! DID YOU GUYS NOTICE THAT WHEN THE GALRA GOT BROUGHT INTHE OTHERS WERE TOTALLY FREAKING OUT/ CONFUSED WHILE PIDGE AND KEITH LOOKEDREADY TO START PUNCHING SOME MOTHERFUCKERS?!?!?! THEY BOTH LOOKED READY TO JUMPOVER THOSE LITTLE BOOTHS, SHOVE BOB RIGHT THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR WAY AND CUTSOME BITCHES I SWEAR!!!!

And then, of course, we get to the arm-grab! My heart justsoared! I specifically love how this tied in because, as I recall the scenefrom Season 1 for multiple reasons! For one, this obviously calls back to Pidgewanting to leave the team and Keith trying to stop her. But another more subtleaspect that I noticed – and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong – but Ibelieve that Keith tried to stop her by holding up one of his arms/ swiped oneof his arms towards her in outrage at first. And in the scene where she grabshis arm?? It’s the same arm he motionedat her with back then! And which armis that?? His right arm. The same arm Red Lion becomes in Voltron. Theposition he used to hold on the team.Coincidence??

Their interactions when paired together on the mission wereyet another brilliant instance of showing us how they’ve grown together, howwell they can collaborate, as well as speaking to the growth of other teamdynamics as well! This might be the first time they’ve ever been on a missionjust the two of them and this was such a great outing! Again, it called to howthey can communicate a plan through simple hand gestures and expressions, andthey are just such compatible co-fighters! This scene also calls back toanother important moment; when Keith and Lance were paired up on the Balmera.Remember how Lance used strange, nonsensical hand gestures to try andarticulate his plan to Keith? And Keith had nofucking clue what he meant? Meanwhile, with Pidge, he figures it after lessthan a minute of thinking! This speaks a lot to not only how well they work asa team, but also how the team as a whole has improved on communicating with oneanother and I appreciate such a clever, subtle little touch!

Rambling about something somewhat tangential here, so if youaren’t interested in reading it:

TLDR Kidge is superior to a certain other ship in almostevery regard.

Now, another concept I think I need to address right here,right now, as it relates back to what I’ve said above and the other character/shipI’ve been kinda calling out alluding to here:

Keith and Pidge’s relationship is a better example of whatthey set out to do with Keith and Lance’s relationship.

…

This may sound a little insane, but just hear me out for asecond. I know that the writers’ have said before that their aim is to developit so that Lance becomes Keith’s right-hand man on the team, but I’d argue itmakes more sense for it to Pidge – or, Hell, I could also make a good argumentfor Hunk being a much better fit.

Pidge is a character that he has had conflict and frictionwith before, but to an extent they’ve clearly worked through it and become a reallygreat team because of it. They were able to coordinate their plan of attackagainst Ulaz in Season 2 through basic eye-and-head-movement, before they didit in Season 7. In Season 3, Keith constantly defers to Pidge’s analyticalskills in both the pursuit of Lotor and the wormhole where they find the comet.In one of those instances he doesn’t listen to her – and I could write a wholeessay about that – but he does listen to her input before making a decision thesecond time. This shows he has learned that he really should rely on and trustthe information she offers before pushing ahead foolishly. And, again in thisseason, he does the same thing with the situations they find themselves inregarding space travel and the simulation, if I recall correctly; deferring toPidge’s assessments of what they’re dealing with before charging ahead.

It’s a really subtle thing – and, admittedly, I would haveliked a little more build-up to their teamwork skills in Season 2 which is asubject for a whole other set of posts – but I ultimately think it’s still areally good example of show don’t tell. They don’t just tell us Pidge and Keith can be extremely effect as a team like some other instances, but show us how well they work together.

And, while I will acknowledge that Lance did start to slowdown with his attitude in Season 3, my problem is that the starting point ofthe change wasn’t something that happened naturally; it happened more because Shiro – and, admittedly, the narrativethe writer’s wanted to present - forcedit on them. Keith never steppedinto the vacated leader role because he wanted to, but because it was what Shiro wanted – and believe me, I couldgo on for hours about my problems with Keith’s hypocrisy in the first couple ofepisodes of that season but I’ll just hush my face for now. And when Lanceaccepts that Keith is the Black Paladin? He literally only accepts it afterbeing rejected himself and defaults to “So Shiro has said it, so it shall be”.

Also when Keith tries to cheer Lance up about the whole TooMany Paladins thing, he just kinda mentions Pidge in a somewhat praising way I’mjust saying.

When Pidge decides to stay in Season 1, Keith is the firstto welcome her back and is genuinely happy she’s there. And, sure, Lance saidthe whole “We are a good team” thing, but he STRAIGHT-UP REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGEIT LATER!! That is some weak sauce. Do not enter that sauce in the countyfair because it is weak!

#crumbles grumbles #Thank you so much for the question! x3 #Keidge #Kidge #Peith #Kidgemas #This took way longer than I planned #And this is also why my post explaining the full details of why I ship Kidge is still in the works #I GO HARD WITH MY ANALYSIS

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moiraineswife · 7 years

Note

Why are you pissed at Rhys

Okay maybe that statement was slightly unfair....I’m not so much pissed at the character more...his characterisation (and also the way fandom praises him blindly and exaggeratedly though that’s another thing)

But I’m just...Pissed at the number of things that Rhys was allowed to do in ACOWAR that he completely got away with with no consequences or condemnation?

The biggest complaint being the Court of Nightmares scene with Mor. He puts her in a room with two of her abusers (and one of whom he doesn’t warn her abut being there because he ‘doesn’t trust her not to stop this’. He doesn’t even listen to her protests, he doesn’t even let her make them and chooses to shock and traumatise her instead) He takes away her safe space (both as an abuse survivor AND a closeted queer person) but more than that he takes away her city and he takes away her power.

(This ties into my being annoyed at fandom’s portrayal of him as the uber feminist) but the power that Rhys gives his female characters remains ultimately his power. He gives it out when it suits him and ‘empowers’ these women but it can be taken away just as easily whenever it suits him. Which means that they don’t actually have any power at all - simply the illusion of it.

We are told in ACOMAF that Mor governs both the Court of Nightmares and Velaris. So, like, the Court of Nightmares being allowed into Velaris is a decision that should be entirely hers. No-one listens to her in that meeting. She says ‘no’ repeatedly and every single man at that table ignores her. Rhys goes over her head on a subject that she has direct control over and doesn’t even tell her that it’s happening, never mind obtaining her consent.

Azriel, who is, in terms of court ranking, her inferior, also goes over her head and doesn’t inform her what’s going on with Rhys’ blessing. Keir also repeatedly dismisses and ignores her. She should have power over him as well. Mor is easily the most powerless person at that table and it’s painful and entirely facilitated by Rhys and his treatment of her.

Rhys then proceeds to lord it over her. He dismisses her trauma, he’s got the disgusting line beforehand that Mor should be ‘used’ to working with Keir by now since she’s been doing it for years (on HIS goddamn fucking orders. And the ONLY reason that storyline works is because it gives Mor power and agency over her abusers which, as we see in CoN scene, she very blatantly doesn’t have - not something Rhys seems in a great hurry to address, though, doesn’t suit him, he needs Keir on his side, Mor’s empowerment, agency and well-being very obviously take a backseat for the sake of his ‘greater good’)

He gets up on his high horse and he tells her while she’s sobbing and trembling in front of him that she’s being selfish. He tells her, when she (rightfully) calls him out and demands to know how he’d feel if she worked with Amarantha behind his back and did what he’d done to her, how he’d feel about that. He throws it in her face and tells her that he’d have been happy Amarantha was there and that he wouldn’t give a damn about it.

Amren and Cassian both support Mor in this scene and Amren calls Rhys out on his shit but it’s not enough. It’s a single, brief scene with no lasting impact. I think this could actually have been handled well (for Rhys’ character, far as I’m concerned it was flat out OOC and bullshit for Az but that...is another debate entirely) but I could have made it work for Rhys without too much effort.

Rhys is ruthless, has never exactly had pure morals and has spent fifty years very recently completely and utterly on his own having to make fast, impossible decisions to protect himself and his court while Under the Mountain. Sustaining that here, choosing the greater good and the war over Mor’s happiness, even her well-being, in an impulsive moment where he made a rash, bad decision because he’s so used to doing this on his own, has massive trust issues and has forgotten that he can rely on and trust his court is something I could have gone with. If it had been properly explored and padded out afterwards. It wasn’t.

Instead what I got was Rhys’ man pain. He talked about how Mor was quite right and that if Amarantha had shown up, nevermind been working with someone in his Circle, his family, he’d have killed her no questions asked. (of course he doesn’t say this to Mor, he says it to Feyre, and he doesn’t say this as a condemnation of himself - it’s to stir up sympathy for HIS trauma that he so recently pretended didn’t exist in order to dismiss Mor’s)

And we get a long agonised monologue about why this is why he martyrs himself so much because he just can’t stand seeing Mor cry. I mean, never mind how awful it must have been to be triggered and stripped of her safe space by someone who is supposed to love, protect, and empower her, we must think about how sad Rhys is seeing her cry I mean?

And then it gets worse. Because not only does it generate man pain Mor forgives him the next day. There is no lasting damage done to their relationship. There is no condemnation of Rhys’ actions. In fact Mor forgives him and forgives him. She admits that he was right. She says that she was wrong to expect better from Azriel, to expect that anyone might look out for her and take her feelings and mental health into account. She says she was wrong to assume this. That is fucked up.

She tells Feyre that she and Rhys ‘had a conversation’ but based on what she tells Feyre Rhys didn’t get down on his knees and grovel for her forgiveness as he damn well should have done. Instead it seems as though all he did was explain how he really is a good man and oh well there will be restrictions and he spent all this time thinking about this and planning it (WITHOUT HER) to make it as painless as possible so he’s a good man really and she should forgive him.

I’m not here for it. The more I think about it the more this book seemed designed to put Rhys on a pedestal, to let him do whatever he wanted and then praise him for it. It was all about making him out to seem like The Best Ever. And he’s not. He’s flawed. He’s morally corrupt. He places huge emphasis on the greater good and throws those around him (Mor, Mor and more Mor) under the bus to get what he wants and he’s never condemned for it?

In fact he’s praised for it (see: the prologue: ‘Rhys gets an entire legion of men, his men, who trusted him to lead them, tortured and brutally killed to save one person and this makes him ‘the best’ ????? no ???? no it doesn’t ???? it makes him a ruthless bastard????? Which is okay, is even interesting, as long as the narrative actually deals with that and it doesn’t. Because Rhys must be The Strongest High Lord. The Most Handsome High Lord. The Most Feminist High Lord. The Best High Lord Ever and I’m tired of it.

I am tired of men being absolved for every shitty, fucked up thing they do because they’re fighting For The Greater Good and that makes everything okay. While women are condemned, demonised and considered selfish for protecting and being themselves (Mor, Nesta) I’m tired of people blindly screaming about how feminist Rhys is because he gives Feyre basic rights that we hate Tamlin for denying her but we praise Rhys to high heaven because he gives them to her? I’m tired of Rhys being called feminist when his female empowerment is an illusion that’s shattered when it does not suit his agenda (see: him completely stripped Mor of her power and agency, as well as traumatising her and dismissing her) I’m tired of this narrative of how Rhys is The Best and we should all want him for ourselves because nope. Rhys is fucked up and flawed like every other character in this series, difference is the narrative never calls him out on it and just continues absolving and praising him.

I’m tired of Rhys doing the bare minimum as a privileged male character and being showered with praise by both the narrative and the fandom that he genuinely does not deserve because he is not superior, he is not supremely feminist (and nor is Feyre’s narrative tbh), he is not that progressive, he’s just not an abusive twat but this is enough to place him on a pedestal and cry from the rooftops about what a wonderful being he is.

Most of this is a condemnation of how he’s written rather than the character of Rhys himself. Because I can see this working, I can see the potential in there, I can see a compelling character and a compelling narrative in there but nothing is being done with it. There is no engagement with Rhys. He just is. He just exists and he exists to be The Best which the narrative shoves down our throat over and over and good grief it’s not what I wanted.

Rhys was introduced to us as a grey character, Rhys has always been a grey character and therein lies what makes him a good, interesting, compelling character. He isn’t a good, interesting, or compelling character, frankly, in ACOWAR. He’s frustrating. He’s frustrating because he IS all of those things but he’s not being written as them. He’s being written as perfect. He’s being written as a flawless, self-sacrificing martyr who has never done anything wrong and must be forgiven by all those he does fuck over (Mor, Tarquin, etc) because the narrative must reinforce over and over and over again that he is The Best.

I don’t want him to be The Best. I want him to be the morally flawed, self-serving, pragmatic, ruthless, charismatic bastard he was introduced to us as who’s doing his best with a shitty hand and taking the flack that comes to him for making himself into a monster. I want the narrative to allow him to take responsibility for the fucked up choices that he’s made and it just doesn’t. Because SJM instead goes out of her way to shove down my throat what a good man he is rather than just showing it to me.

I don’t need to be spoonfed. And I don’t need the morality of every character’s decision argued out in-text. It’s just lazy and it’s boring. The purpose of having morally grey characters making morally grey choices especially in the setting of a war is to make the reader think and feel. And all I feel is frustrated because I’m being told what to think. Because a character makes a fucked up choice that should have long lasting, damning consequences, but three pages later the book is telling me that no, no! They’re doing it for the greater good. This decision is good and right, let’s accept that and move on.

THAT’S NOT THE POINT OF THIS KIND OF PLOT POINT. The point isn’t to tell me that it’s good. The point isn’t to actually tell me anything. The point is to have it in there, show me the consequences, show me how the character feels about it, show me the rewards of the decision, show me how the choice affects them, then let me make up my own damn mind. This is how this kind of plot point actually has any impact and none of these plot points have any impact whatsoever in ACOWAR because they’re all explained away and I’m told that they’re Good, Right choices made by Good, Right character thirty seconds after they take place.

ACOTAR got this right. We’re STILL debating some of the shit Rhys pulled in ACOTAR in a way that we aren’t discussing much of anything he did in ACOWAR because the narrative did all that for us (or tried to). In ACOTAR we get Rhys’ actions, we get his motivations, we get the consequences and we get to sit there and decide if we accept them, we get to weigh his actions and judge them based on our own morals and we don’t get spoonfed on how to think. That’s why Rhys was a compelling character, that’s why he was intriguing, that’s why he generated debate and feeling. There’s no feeling attached to him in ACOWAR because it’s too simple, it’s too easy, and it’s too forced.

Rhys fucks up. Narrative allows Rhys Man Pain. Narrative absolves Rhys. Rinse and repeat. (Same thing with Feyre) and that’s why there’s so little feeling, so little impact, and so little meaning in their story. Because there is nothing for a reader to engage with. There is nothing for a reader to think about themselves. We get told what to think. We get told how to feel about Rhys. Everything gets smoothed over. There is no real conflict. There are no real consequences and it’s boring and it’s frustrating and it just feeds this idea of absolving male characters for everything they do and it’s exhausting.

TL;DR: Rhys’ character, arc, and choices could have been compelling, intriguing and plunged him back into that moral grey area where we first met him in ACOTAR and where he belongs. Instead I’m both bored and frustrated by his arc because I’m tired of being shown male characters doing fucked up, morally flawed shit in the name of their Greater Good, and then being automatically absolved for it.

#rhysand #acowar #anti acowar #anti sjm #i'm going to get SO much hate for this like i can FEEL IT ALREADY #i'm going to bleed followers like there's no tomorrow #i am Ready #this has been bothering me for SO LONG #and i'm not tagging this as anti rhys because it's NOT #i don't actually have a problem with his base character #or the things he does #i have a problem with how the narrative absolves him #and how the fandom (understandably) does as well #i'm just so tired of men being placed on pedestals and praised for like #giving women basic treatment and rights and stuff #while women are thrown under the bus and hated on for relatively minor infractions/doing basically the smae thing #but the narrative doesn't do any legwork to absolve them or explain them #because that is a position reserved only for The Men #apparently i'm saltier about all this than i thought i was #how about that #anonymous #answered #lauren answers #long post #rhys meta #acotar meta #my meta #acowar spoilers #acowarspoilers

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