#lore theories
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Elden Ring Sigils and Color Theory
Elden Ring magic sigils sorted by color. Long post about their lore, meanings of certain colors and what it can reveal about the story of Elden Ring under the cut.
In this post, I will be going over why it is important to have a good understanding of color and meanings associated with color in the context of lore. In a game, color is used by developers for more than just drawing the world, it’s about creating visual language, a bridge between writers and players. There are countless articles about usage of colors in videogames, but in this post I will try to reverse-engineer the process and find out the meaning behind visual symbolism and combine it with game’s equivalent of heraldic symbols - magic sigils.
In Elden Ring magic sigils have been used to represent origin of sorceries and power sources of incantations, usually they give us hints what kind of deity is worshipped by people or who created the spell. They are an invaluable source of information on history on the Lands Between. I’ve been already playing with idea of color sorting when I did the same thing with remembrances, but sigils revealed even more secrets about story and lore. How about origin of life on the Lands Between? Origin of the outer gods? But let’s not rush.
The first category, Blue Sorcery as I called it, already shows how color sorting method is supported by the game itself. With a help of descriptions we can place the sigils in the chronological order and track the change in design over the course of story such as replacement of flowing weapon in the sigil of Eternal Cities to Carian sword. Their sigils are incredibly similar to each other, solidifying connection between Nox and Carian royal family; both factions are associated with silver, sorcery, artifical life, moons and stars.
This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars (Memory Stone)
The young astrologer gazed at the night sky as she walked. She had always chased the stars every step of her journey. Then she met the full moon—and, in time, the astrologer became a queen (Stargaizer Heirloom)
Moons played a central role in Nox and Carian culture, the circle is a base shape for both crests, however, while Raya Lucaria sigil shares similar elements with Eternal Cities and Carian emblems (glintstone sorcerers are the descendants of astrologers, a fact that the Carians remain aware of, - Preceptor's Long Gown), this part was drastically redused in size and moved on top; the central place is taken by the star and framed by a pair of cuckoos. The hue of sigil is also significantly different from cold blue tones of Nox and Carians emblems, the warm greenish tint is close to the color of primeval current spells, which were banished once Rennala became rector of the Academy.
These scholars, who sought to master Carian sorcery, instead learned to see the moon as equal to the stars. This robe, in the hue of the full moon, signifies their heresy (Lazuli Robe)
(Cuckoo Greatshield) Boasting high magic damage negation, this shield is used to hunt down mages. "Our enemy is none other than Caria itself."
So far I’m not going to delve deeper in the roots of the conflict between Carian royal family and Academy of Raya Lucaria, it’s a mere demonstration of a method and how it works. But in next paragraphs I will use it as evidence for a few theories about worldbuilding.
(thanks for clarification about Malenia’s Crest, I rewatched fight on youtube and, yes, it’s a normal Raya Lucaria sigil)
Golden incantations is the biggest group on the list, in a way I can say that history of the Lands Between is a history of gold. Here we can see a symbolical depiction of the Erdtree, the central piece of the game both in a metaphorical and literal sense; we can track how portrayl of the Erdtree changed during Marika’s age until it was replaced altogether by the abstract emblem of the Golden Order Fundamentalism. I have a lot of to say about this group and currently working on post with a more detailed investigation, so far I will touch only basics: such as origin of life gold.
Gold in Elden Ring is more than than shine metal or a color, it’s prima materia of the Greater Will, a force of unknown origin (it’s never called 神 god or an 外なる神 outer god anywhere in EN or JP script and before jumping to conclusion wait until I’m going to observe confirmed outer gods) which is responsible for the creation of Elden Ring. From the description of Elden Stars, the most ancient incantation in this category, and Elden Remembrance we can figure out keywords associated with the Greater Will:
It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring/It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order (I’d like to point that it’s “Order”, not “The Golden Order”).
(I believe we still can see remnants of the golden star in a form of meteorite ore in Divine Towers and Sealed Tunnel near Erdtree)
In other words, the Greater Will is about gold, Order and everything Elden. However, a common mistake is to tie the Greater Will to the Golden Order, despite the name the latter is not representative of it, even more so... original gold from the golden star wasn’t yellow.
From dialogue with Sellen we can learn that stars are containing amber, but golden stars are kind of special:
Golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life, and houses its vitality (Sellen)
And Hyetta’s speech supports futher that the Greater Will is responsible for creation of life in one way or another:
…すべては、大きなひとつから、分かたれた 分かたれ、産まれ、心を持った
けれどそれは、大いなる意志の過ちだった だから、戻さなくてはならない
All that there was divided from the One Great. Divided, born and given heart. But it was a mistake of the Greater Will (Hyetta)
So, Miyazaki pretty much unitied theories about meteorites being consensually considered to be involved in the origin of life and primordial soup:
Meteorites could have been responsible for delivering the basis of life's genetic code. Analyses of three meteorites suggest that nucleobases, the crucial components of DNA, could have formed in space and then fallen to Earth to provide the raw material for the origin of life itself
For nearly nine decades, science's favorite explanation for the origin of life has been the “primordial soup”. This is the idea that life began from a series of chemical reactions in a warm pond on Earth's surface, triggered by an external energy source such as lightning strike or ultraviolet (UV) ligh
Now if we check descriptions of Crucible Aspects and Crucible Knights items we can find out that original gold had rent tint.
Holds the power of the crucible of life, the primordial form of the Erdtree. Strengthens Aspects of the Crucible incantations (Crucible aspects incantations)
This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself (Ordovis Greatsword, the name itself is a reference to Ordovician Period, part of the Paleozoic era, a rich variety of marine life flourished in the vast seas and the first primitive plants began to appear on land)
Ancient Erdtree/Crucible emblem is slightly reddish too, however, the modern gold is more pure and yellow, the gold of the Golden Order. The sigil changed the color too and lost the root part just like the Elden Ring itself if we compare modern depiction with Farum Azula mural:
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored
But a gold is a gold, even though it’s different, but as Turtle Pope said heresy is not native to this world and everything can be cojoined:
The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lighting itself, are both imbued with gold
Yes, the Greater Will governs everything what is golden.
And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot. This was the beginning of unalloyed gold
I can already hear the raise of pitchforks from certain kind of Miquella fans, so let’s talk about outer gods and what exactly they are.
With a surprising exception of emblem from the Scepter of the All-Knowing (Gideon, I have a few questions for you) all sigils in Red Group are assigned to the deities: outer/ancient god of Rot, outer god Formless Mother, Rykard’s immortal serpent and Fell God, who is bit tricky, it’s ambitious if 古い火の悪神 “ancient” is applied to the god or fire. The only confirmed outer gods, who didn’t made it here is an outer god of Deathbirds and Frienzied Flame. Considering theory that removal of the Destined Death from Elden Ring drained color from the god-slaying Black Flame and eclipsed sun of outer god of Deathbirds, I can suggest that original color of their sigils was red too.
Long story short: sigil of the outer gods and other unwelcomed deities are represented by red color and they are all related to the death, Formless Mother is about bleed, fell flame is burning, rot is decay, etc.
However, as stated in the description of Ordovis Greatsword, primordial gold of the Crucible had a red tint that was lost when Marika estabilished Golden Order by sealing away red Rune of Death; and this knowledge eventually leads to conclusion that...
Outer gods aren’t aliens. What a surprise.
They are natural powers that were screwed by the removal of Destined Death, when they got outed from the Golden Order. They are red tint of the primordial gold.
Once the concept of Death was banished from the Lands Between the elements and effects linked to it - death, decay, combustion, bleed became outer to the newly estabilished Order. There is a clear thematic difference between celestial Greater Will, who isn’t even presented on the Lands Between, and actual outer gods, who can be sealed or banished, more over there are no outer god of water, sunshine or happiness, they are all linked to the side-effects of death. When death was excluded from the Order, they were affected as well.
The thing is that gold in Elden Ring is a magical substance and changes the tint depends on the currently running Order, which is shown in the endings when Golden Tree (黄金樹 that’s how Erdtree is called in JP) acquires different hue. It’s another overlooked element of visual storytelling.
This Golden Order is something that the Elden Ring may have once represented, but not directly. It’s more about how you apply those rules and how you enforce them on the physical world and what effects they have on it, - Miyazaki in interview to gamesradar
(Golden Order isn’t direct representation of the Greater Will/Elden Ring as it was said by Miyazaki himself, it’s only one temporary set of rules)
Elden Ring consists of runes and even newly discovered mending runes (concepts) can be added to the system (regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge) ot removed and the gold will respond to it by changing the color and reshaping reality according to the Order (causality is the pull between meanings; it is the connections that form the relationships of all things). Elden Ring - Rune of Death = yellow gold and banishment of ancient gods, who were associated with death, Elden Ring+mending rune of a choice=see example aboive.
For futher evidence that gold changes metaphysical properties and in the current state (Golden Order) preserves things from not only from dying, but decomposing too, I want to bring a few descriptions:
Fresh beast blood, glinting with gold. Material used for crafting items. Found by hunting carnivorous beasts.This glimmering blood never rots or decays ( Beast Blood)
Someone's excrement. It has a golden tinge. Material used for crafting items. Gold-tinged excrement is a highly stable substance; it doesn't dry out, nor does it lose its customary warmth or scent. For better or for worse, it remains as it is (Golden Dung; I can’t believe I’m using description of literal sh/t to prove my point)
However, from what we know only Rune of Death was sealed, and while outer gods’ influence was seriously weakened, it still existed. This is why Miquella abandoned Golden Order and was working on development of his own gold, even more pure and untainted, before he got mohgged:
Unalloyed Gold Needle: An intricately crafted needle of unalloyed gold. A ritual implement crafted to ward away the meddling of outer gods, it is thought capable of forestalling the incurable rotting sickness.
Now let me clarify: community’s favorite boogieman “influence of the evil alien outer gods/the Greater Will” isn’t a thing in a sense that there is a group of invaders from the outer space trying to enslave the Lands Between. Even thought 外なる神 is used in Japanese media culture for lovecraftian beings, we should remember that history is fabricated by the Golden Order in Marika’s favor; "outer gods” are alien to the current Order”. Same goes for the influence of the Greater Will, it was never about mind-control or whatever was projected onto it, the influence of the Greater Will is simply how Order and gold are changing course of the nature.
Last thing I want to add is that influence of the outer gods isn’t always about destructive powers (Order of Rot is about decay and rebirth), but I’ll leave it for a dedicated post.
In Mixed Group I put sigils with unique or unknown colors.
In my first draft Dragon Communion was placed in the Red Group for the intense hue of sigil, but upon futher research I decided to move it here. The power of Dragon Communion incantations doesn’t stem from any patron god or the assigned star (unless I missed something); they are scaling from arcane, an inner force of the caster.
Violet is an interesting choice for Gravity sigil because this color, albeit with the less intence hue, is used for sleep status and associated items.
I like how yellow color of Frenzied Flame is similar to the gold of the Greater Will, carrying the theme of duality, yet the shape of the sigil is distorted and assymetrical. In fact, designs of the ancient sigils usually is far less complex than intricate shapes of newer ones (with a few exceptions). Just to be clear, even though influence of the Flame of Frenzy can be cleared by Miquella’s needle, the game never calls it an outer god. It’s a matter of semantics, but I guess that unlike crew from the Red Group it was never booted from the Order since Chaos and Order can’t naturally coexist, but there are a lot ot of to speculate about, considering drastic changes in Frenzied Flame quest and lore.
Golden star in the centre of Bestial sigil reminds of Cinquedea dagger (Short sword given to high ranking clergymen of Farum Azula. The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind), which shows beast’s arm holding golden slab.
So, Death spells. I believe that both Black Flame incantations and Death Sorcery of Deathbird outer god were affected by confining of Destined Death.
The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost
Storied sword and treasure of Castle Sol that depicts an eclipsed sun drained of color.The eclipsed sun, drained of color, is the protective star of soulless demigods. It aids the mausoleum knights by keeping Destined Death at bay. Mausoleum Knight Armor: The wing-shaped ornaments on its back evoke the Deathbird
And, as I’ve been already pointing in a different post, death of Godwyn brought back forgotten death sorcery that almost ceased from existance during age of immortality, but was rediscovered
Death in the Lands Between is incredibly complex subject and deserves a series of posts, even though I believe there should be DLC because so far all lore related to it seems to be incomprehensible.
Unmarkered sorceries don’t have background sigil, but they all share something in common. They originated from the Mountaintops of Giants:
Zamor Ice Storm: Ice sorcery of the Town of Zamor.Strike the ground with the staff to create a freezing tornado. Charging enhances potency. Cloaked in icy tempests, the knights of Zamor have challenged the Fire Giants since ancient times.
Briars of Sin : An aberrant sorcery, discovered along with red glintstone by those exiled to the north for their crimes.The Academy reviles this sorcery, which draws its power from faith
Founding Rain of Stars: The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status.The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land. Sword of Night and Flame: Astrologers, who preceded the sorcerers, established themselves in mountaintops that nearly touched the sky, and considered the Fire Giants their neighbors.
Another interesting details to consider is that they are all in some ways are unwelcomed or straight up heretical. It reminds me of relationships between Golden Order and remnanats of the Crucible. Aberrant sorcery is a mark of sin, primeval current was banished and cold sorcery is veiled in occult mystery:
The snowy crone taught the young Ranni to fear the dark moon as she imparted her cold sorcery.
I guess Ranni’s secret mentor is called snowy crone for a reason.
That’s being said, everything I wrote is a subject to change as DLC may reveal more details or I will reconsider some parts under futher research. But overall I think it was an interesting experiment.
読んでくれてありがと
#elden ring#ranni#miquella#elden beast#elden ring lore#lore theories#outer gods#elden ring sigils#ask opened again for 1-2 days#I have a lot of ideas about silver#malenia#hyetta is underrated#it's frampt/kaathe is all over again#elden ring - unique fantasy take on evolution#paleontology#heraldy#physics#colors#western fandom: we know exactly one holy book and view everything through the chr/stianity lenses#yet another day of me hating translation of root resine
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The mystery of P's skin
If there's one thing the entire Lies of P community can agree upon, it's probably that Pinocchio looks very, very handsome. Many people - including me - were enamored by his looks from the moment they first saw him in the trailers, by his soft locks, sweet freckles and big blue eyes.
However, even early on, I couldn't help but feel like there was something... odd about his features - more specifically, his skin. For a puppet whose outer shell usually consists of porcelain, wood, or some other artificial material, it looked almost too realistic.
Of course, it could just be very realistic looking faux skin (which, given Lies of P's 19th-century technology, would be kind of impressive), but after some careful observations, I get the feeling there actually might be more to it. And given some of the things I learned in my research about real-life automata, there might be a grisly, sinister secret behind P's innocent face.
[Massive spoilers for Lies of P]
[CW: skinning, violence to children]
The Lies of P character cards
The first time I noticed there was something strange about P's skin was when I was looking at the character cards Neowiz released back in 2022, as promotional material for Gamescom.
These cards feature high-resolution renders of the main characters, showing a lot of structural details of clothing, hair, and skin.
As for P's render, it looks like this:
One thing that confused me from the start was just how perfectly normal his skin looks. Most of the other puppets have porcelain skin, which creates a very distinct reflection when light falls onto it, as we can see with Polendina:
For P, however, we see no such effect, implying that his outer shell is not made of porcelain. Also, seeing how he occasionally squints his eyes on the character screen and how his skin squishes and stretches as a result, I think it most definitely consists of something else - because if I know one thing, it's that porcelain does not physically behave that way.
Instead, a lot of people (particularly fanfic writers) have come up with the headcanon that P has really realistic-looking faux skin. However, if that were the case, I would find it really puzzling just how many small impurities there are on his face. You would probably expect synthetically manufactured skin to look very smooth and clean, but in case of P, if you pay close attention, you can spot tiny irregularities giving the impression of skin pores, and even a bump above his left eye.
In comparison, P's skin actually looks surprisingly similar to that of the human characters from the game. For reference, here are the portraits of Sophia, Venigni and Eugénie:
See what I mean? There is virtually no distinction between the structure of P's skin and that of the human characters (to be fair, Eugénie's even looks a lot cleaner). Adding to this, these close-ups of P's face during the ending cutscene make it apparent that these small blemishes certainly, most definitely are skin pores.
Considering all of this, I've come up with a somewhat eccentric theory - that P's skin is neither made from porcelain nor some other kind of faux material, but real, actual skin.
Automata with animal skin and Vaucanson's "Flute Player"
Some of you may wonder: "But P is a puppet! How could he possibly have real, human skin?"
Well... this is where the disturbing part begins.
First off, we have to take a quick dive into the history of automata, the real-life clockwork machines providing the basis of Lies of P's lore. Originally, clockwork mechanisms took up an enormous amount of space, being used for huge clock towers in cities and large-scale moving sculptures. Over the centuries, the mechanical components became smaller, enabling clockmakers and artisans to produce more intricate crafts, including miniature reproductions of people and animals.
Clocks and music boxes featuring birds with real feathers were extremely popular, but there were also other automata coated with real animal skin: As early as the 17th century, we have a drumming bear with actual bear fur (located in the Mathematisch-Physikalischer Salon, Dresden) and a pair of lion table clocks (located in Skokloster Castle, Sweden) coated in the hide of lambs. From the 19th century, we know of a toy mouse by Gustave Vichy as well as a toy rabbit by Nicolas Théroude, both covered in real animal fur. In addition, there were various 19th-century dolls with leather bodies, and the company Jérôme Thibouville-Lamy even produced an miniature ensemble of monkey musicians with heads covered in soft leather, which could could move their lips to show their teeth.
However, we don't have any accounts that skin was used for human automata - except for one extraordinary case from the 18th century.
In 1738, the French inventor Jacques de Vaucanson presented an automaton called "The Flute Player". It was the size of a real-life human, and in contrast to all other automata of the time, it didn't use some kind of sound box to produce its music, but actual air flow. The inner mechanism consisted of a system of nine bellows, divided into sets of three, which were each controlled by a weight to regulate air pressure. Each set was attached to a pipe, three in total, which all joined up into a single one, similar to a trachea. This singular pipe continued up the throat, widening at the top to form the mouth cavity where the air flowed out. To correctly play the flute, the automaton was equipped with lips which could not only open and close, but also move back and forward to cover the holes. To better control the air flow and create pauses between notes, the automaton even possessed a movable, silver tongue.
Despite this virtually perfect imitation of the action of flute playing, Vaucanson had to realize that the automaton's metal fingers weren't pliable enough to cover the holes of the instrument correctly - so, for the automaton to be able to execute its task, Vaucanson had to glove the hands in real, actual skin.
It's speculated it was human skin, although I couldn't find any source decisively confirming this. Either way, despite Vaucanson being a quite controversial figure among his contemporaries, he was a fascinating personality: He was one of the first to construct automata that were not meant to serve as mere toys, but which could do labor, being credited with the invention of what we today would call household androids back in 1727(!), and chances are he was neurodivergent as well (coming from my own observations as a neurodivergent person).
However, as much as I'd love to write an entire essay about Vaucanson right now, let's get back to our actual topic.
The procedure
To put it bluntly, what I think actually happened is this:
Geppetto took the skin of a dead boy, treated it in some way so it wouldn't rot, and then draped the skin over a wooden puppet frame.
I think from a moral standpoint, Geppetto would definitely be able to do this - however, it would require him to have a good deal of experience with human anatomy. As someone who builds humanoid puppets, I think he would at least have a theoretical understanding of it, but still, he's an engineer, not a doctor.
There is, however, one group with excellent medical knowledge who certainly wouldn't shy away from dissecting a human being: the Alchemists. Although Geppetto's dislike of the Alchemists is well known, he himself admitted that "in desperate times, I broke my own rule" after the disaster at the Grand Exhibition, and I assume Carlo's resurrection would be more than good a reason for that as well. Basically, my suspicion is that Geppetto had help from the Alchemists - maybe even from Simon Manus himself. If this was the case, I imagine Simon probably demanded some kind of favor in return - perhaps Geppetto and Simon struck a deal, with the Alchemists giving Geppetto free rein to execute his little experiment with the Puppet Frenzy, while he agreed not to interfere with their own. This would support the Mad Donkey's statement that Geppetto and the Alchemists were "scheming together". (Also, if they were actually working together, I think things already started with the Nameless Puppet, Geppetto's first attempt at resurrecting Carlo. In the cutscene before the fight against the Nameless Puppet, we can see that Geppetto's left hand has been fitted with implants, having the same bluish complexion that is typical of people who have been "enhanced" by the Alchemists.) However, I don't think Geppetto ever really trusted the Alchemists, so he probably planned to betray them at some point - at the same time, I think Simon knew Geppetto was deceiving him (reading thoughts is such an op skill), so he didn't fully rely on him either.
Regardless whether Geppetto had assistance or not, completely skinning a human without damaging the skin requires an immense amount of care. Looking at P's skin (or at least what we can see of it), there are no visible seams anywhere, which would mean Geppetto did his best to keep it intact, probably including the hair as well. (As we all know, P's hair looks very soft and natural, and you can't see any outlines where it was glued on; therefore, I believe it was left rooted in the skin.) Nevertheless, if you want to skin a body, you have to make a cut somewhere. One possible option would be the hole in P's chest (where the P-Organ is inserted), as there would later be an opening anyway; also, given that the Legion Arm would later replace the left one, there would naturally have to be a cut at the left upper arm. However, both of these openings would most likely be too small to completely remove the skin. Due to this, my suspicion is that Geppetto made a third, larger cut down P's back. It would be big enough to take the complete skin off, and it would also be convenient if P had something like a cam storage in his back, similar to the Jaquet-Droz automata. (This has been a headcanon of mine for a long time, since these cam discs act as an analogue storage for a clockwork automaton's movements, which are engraved into the edge. Given that P's combat moves are quite complex, he'd need a lot of space for those; btw, my theory is that the amulets from the game are actually interchangeable cams, because they have "information and memories that are useful for movement" imprinted on them.) I would assume both the openings at the front and at the back are usually covered with skin, with a small seam being visible where the original cut was. Whenever Geppetto needs to do maintenance, the skin would be peeled back to give him free access.
As for the rest of the process, I suppose it would be kind of similar to taxidermy. As it happens, the Victorian era (which is around the same time period the game is set in) was actually the golden age of taxidermy, when mounted animals started to become more lifelike - there was even a trend among pet owners to let their deceased pets be stuffed, as a way to "resurrect" them. (Just why do I always manage to stumble upon the most cursed parallels?) Once the skin had been taken off, any remains of fat and muscle tissue would be removed, after which it would be either tanned or treated with preserving chemicals. Following this, the skin would be mounted on a mannequin, in P's case probably a standard puppet frame made from wood and metal. Of course, you need to take precise measurements of the original body beforehand, and since this is about his darling son, I imagine Geppetto would put extra care into the modeling. At the end, all you'd have to do is add glass eyes - and well, there you have it: a perfect, biomechanical imitation of a human being.
However, we do know there were some unexpected changes in P, even physical ones like his hair growing. Presuming that he indeed does have real skin, I wonder if this may be due to the Ergo "recognizing" the organic material in some way, causing these lifelike reactions. I could imagine a puppet with human skin is quite unprecedented, so this would likely be a first time occurrence - in that case, it might potentially give a whole new meaning to Sophia's statement that P is a "special puppet". (I could go into even more detail regarding my theories about Ergo and P's transformation into "another kind of human" here, but frankly, I think this topic deserves its own post.)
I think P is far from Geppetto's first attempt, however: We do know from the description of the Nameless Puppet's Ergo that the Nameless Puppet (which presumably is a Frankenstein version of Carlo) was the first to be equipped with a P-Organ, but after it turned out to be unstable, it was left abandoned and locked away. In that sense, I imagine Romeo was something like a "field test" - I don't think turning Romeo into a puppet was something Geppetto planned from the start, but when he came and asked him, he presented Geppetto with too good of an opportunity to pass up. When the transferring of Romeo into his puppet body, all memories and personality intact, turned out to be a success, Geppetto decided to take the next step with P. I assume he designed multiple versions of P until he was satisfied, which might mean that the broken puppet in the swamp (which also seems to possess a P-Organ and isn't bound to the Grand Covenant) is actually one of P's predecessors.
Still, as interesting and disturbing all of these speculations are, there is one question that remains: If P really does possess real human skin, who was the original owner of it?
The origin of P's skin
The first, most logical assumption would probably be that Geppetto used the skin of Carlo. Back in 2022, when everyone hypothesized Geppetto had a son but no one could confirm it, I also assumed he took the skin of his deceased son.
Now that we know the game's story though, we have a bit more information. First off, it's heavily implied that the Nameless Puppet is actually a Frankenstein version of Carlo, which would mean that the weird organic-looking parts - specifically the upper body, right arm and face - originally belonged to Carlo's body.
Given that they have the appearance of decaying tissue, it seems like Geppetto did his best to save as much of Carlo's body at first, but ultimately was unsuccessful in bringing him back to life. Considering this, it seems quite unlikely that Geppetto would remove the skin from his son's body if he intended to preserve it. Also, you can actually see a nipple on the right side of the chest, which probably wouldn't be there if the skin was taken off.
There's another thing that doesn't quite fit into this: When looking at Carlo's portrait in the game, he looks strikingly similar to P at the first glance (so much, in fact, that I was afraid my wild fan theory might turn out to be true after all). However, upon closer inspection, one can make out a few subtle differences in Carlo's and P's appearances: Carlo lacks P's trademark freckles, and instead of Carlo's doe-brown eyes, P possesses light blue ones.
Granted, Carlo could've gotten the freckles later during his life, and the blue eyes might be due to the Ergo's influence (which I also assume to be the reason for Sophia's blue colored hair). However, when Carlo gets revived during the Real Boy ending, the differences are still there, as his outward appearance is not identical to P's:
If the Arm of God has the ability to restore things to their original state (which is how I interpreted it), that would mean Carlo looked different from P at the point of his death, meaning that P's skin can't be Carlo's.
Of course, if Geppetto did use human skin for P, but not Carlo's, that would make things quite complicated, as it would be extremely difficult to find someone who looks almost exactly like Carlo. Nevertheless, there's one fan theory I'd still like to talk about: Someone on Reddit actually proposed that Carlo might have had a twin brother once, whose soul got transferred to the lamp by Sophia.
I actually had a similar theory about Gemini before the game came out, although I never shared it publicly because I couldn't find any support for it other than Gemini's name and his death in the original book. Basically, the gist of it was that Gemini is the soul of Geppetto's dead son, which got separated from its body and somehow encased in the lamp.
Although this assumption is definitely outdated since we now know that Carlo is Geppetto's son, we do have many left-over questions about Gemini. (Some character development for Gemini is actually one of the things at the top of my wish list for the DLC; as far as characters go, I felt like Gemini was the game's single weak point, and I wish they would've utilized him more.) In fact, it almost seems like there was originally going to be an amnesia subplot for Gemini, judging by some of his comments. For example, we've got the remark about the fairy tale book at the Hotel, but despite remembering there was a person who particularly adored it, Gemini can't recall who it was. Then, we have this very interesting comment down at the Relic of Trismegistus where Gemini remembers that "someone was dragged away from here", but again can't tell precisely who.
Unfortunately, the game never builds upon these comments, and they're pretty much left standing as they are. In fact, I can't help the impression that this might be part of a cut storyline - even Sophia says that Gemini is "unique" and "more than just a guide", and Gemini himself states that he's a friend of Sophia's, and that she "woke him up the last time she was there" - although, once again, he doesn't remember the exact circumstances.
Now, I've noticed that "P is Carlo's twin brother" AUs are quite popular in the fandom, but I'd like to mention there's nothing from the game that hints at Carlo having a twin brother (at least, to my knowledge). Still, it is quite an interesting theory - if the assumption that it was Carlo who particularly loved the fairy tale about the wooden puppet is true (based on Geppetto's comment during the fight with the Nameless Puppet that he should've taken more time to read him from his "favorite book"), it would explain why Gemini, his former twin brother, knows about it. However, if it really was Sophia who transferred Gemini's soul into the lamp, it prompts the question of the exact circumstances of his death. Given that Geppetto was willing to murder an entire city just for Carlo's revival, I wouldn't put it past him to sacrifice his other, perhaps not-so-favorite son for his endeavor - perhaps that's why P looks very similar, but not identical to Carlo.
Still, it's probably best if you take all of this with a grain of salt, as even compared to my original theory that P might have human skin, it's pretty exotic at best. Also, given that Gemini is directly mentioned in a memory scene that presumably takes place at the Monad Charity House makes this even more questionable. At least, I think it's highly unlikely that Gemini is Carlo's twin brother if he accompanied the mysterious Stalker - on the other hand, it seems a bit strange that Gemini would know about Carlo's favorite book if they only knew each other what appears to be such a short amount of time, especially when their relationship didn't start on good terms. Again, nothing is for certain, as we don't see Gemini physically appear in the memory scene - the only thing that seems to be confirmed is that Gemini also was a human once (at least I can't imagine what a cricket lamp is supposed to do against two unruly school boys).
Other possible alternatives
So, let's say Geppetto didn't actually use human skin for Pinocchio (which, to be honest, would be a relief) - why would he decide to make P look slightly different from Carlo?
One reason I can think of is that he designed P as a kind of "idealized" version of Carlo - judging by his comment before the final battle, Geppetto seems to have been discontent with Carlo's "mischievous" behavior, so maybe he used that opportunity to make him the "picture-perfect son" he always wanted.
Then again, given how rarely Geppetto saw him, I wonder if he even knew what Carlo looked like at the point of his graduation. When he retrieved his dead body, perhaps Carlo's face was disfigured beyond recognition, and all Geppetto had to work with were some old pictures/photos and his own memory.
If that was the case, it would make sense that P's outer appearance slightly differs from Carlo. Still, Geppetto was confident his plan would work out, that the resemblance would be enough to trigger Carlo's memories - but for whatever reason, it didn't, be that because of physical discrepancies or because Carlo was already gone.
Conclusion
In the end, no matter what Geppetto did, the fact remains that it was an insult - not only to Carlo, but also to P.
From the moment he first opened his eyes, P was forced to live in another person's skin (perhaps even literally), with no other choice being offered to him. His entire existence is essentially a lie, being expected to fill the role of someone he just isn't. Moreover, in trying to revive Carlo, what Geppetto actually did was soiling his memory - the mere notion that a living person can be replaced is beyond disrespectful, and to let innocents die in pursuit of this madness is an atrocity I have no words for. Even if Geppetto did all of this out of regret for having neglected Carlo and not spending more time with him, let me spell out one thing Nick Carraway already said in The Great Gatsby: You can't repeat the past.
However, what was given to you at birth is not everything you have to be, and what others expect from you is not what you have to become. In my own way, I love Pinocchio very dearly, but that love extends far beyond pretty looks. I relate to his struggle, and I would do anything to aid him in becoming his own person. Whatever choice he makes for himself, I will support it, and no matter if human or puppet, I'm going to love him just the way he is.
Resources:
Anette Beyer's "Faszinierende Welt der Automaten - Uhren, Puppen, Spielereien" ("Fascinating world of automata - clocks, dolls, playthings")
About Jacques de Vaucanson
On clockwork automata in general
#lies of p#lies of p lore#lore theories#lies of p pinocchio#lies of p carlo#lies of p geppetto#automaton#I feel dirty just writing about this#but I had this fan theory for AGES and finally had to get it off my chest#then again it's just Geppetto being an obsessive creep so nothing new under the sun
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Concerning Implications
Do we actually know if Miquella cares for and wants to help the albinaurics?
I find it strange that there are none in his Haligtree, unless the oracle envoys are a aulbinauric subtype (which is possible).
And just today I noticed there were tortured albinaurics in Castle Sol. Is Castle Sol is loyal to Miquella, and it certainly seems like they’re working for him, then why have they been experimenting on albinaurics?
It is certainly something to consider, and I’m not sure I like what it implies.
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Genshin Impact: mysterious door of Hangeh Afrasiyab.
With the release of 3.6 version, during the quest Khvarena of Good and Evil, in the depths of Gate of Zulqarnain players can find the location called Hangeh Afrasiyab. I've seen other lore enthusiasts speculate about the name taken from Hang-e Afrāsiāb or Hang-eafrāsiāb — "the cave in which Afrāsiāb, the fugitive king of Turān, spent his last days".
I'm not going to talk about the Afrāsiāb, for anyone interested I already placed link(s) in the text. My focus is the enormous gate we see there.
If you say it's an entrance or at least is related to Khaenri'ah, you're probably right. The emblem (adornment?) on it, a star, and its colors, remind me of Enjou, the envoy serving under Abyss Prince(ss):
Although my photo is cropped with letterbox, the star is obviously eight-pointed. Because Genshin Impact is heavily impacted (pun intended) by Gnosticism, I must mention the Ogdoad.
In the early days of Gnostic teachings, Ogdoad was a supercelestial region above the seven heavens — and with the better understanding of astronomy — the sphere of the fixed stars. With the introduction of system developed by the theological Valentinus, the seven heavens with the region above them were regarded as the lowest stage of exercise of creative power. Above them was Pleroma, where were exhibited the first manifestations of the evolution of subordinate existence from the great First Principle.
What am I getting at, you ask? I suspect, in accordance to system of Valentinus, Khaenri'ah is the region above seven heavens, while Celestia is Pleroma. Literal underground location has little importance, as Gnostics seem to be allergic to metaphors matching with facts.
No, seriously, trust me on this, when I say you don't want to think too much about relevance and accuracy while analyzing work of Gnostics. Otherwise your brain will melt.
For a nation known for hatred towards Celestia's regime, Khaenri'ahs, including current Abyss Order, sure love including it in their heritage.
Knowing Hangeh Afrasiyab is located in Sumeru, which is based on Middle East, the interpretation of Ogdoad by Ancient Egyptians piqued my interest. Those people saw Ogdoad as a group of eight gods, worshiped in Hermopolis, taking an appearance of snakes (feminine) and frogs or monkeys (masculine), divided into four pairs/couples (BTW, number four is associated with death in Chinese culture and we're talking about Chinese game):
Nun & Naunet — gods of primeval waters;
Kuk & Kauket — gods of darkness;
Huh & Hauhet — gods of infinity/eternity (life's loops, anyone?);
Tenemu & Tenemut — gods of invisibility.
Fun fact: if you try to search up the fourth couple, plenty of academic and religious analysis on Gnosticism pop up. The invisibility is ought to be meant as protection, as far as I understand (spoiler: I don't).
Fits the dynamic between Khaneri'ah and Celestia, doesn't it? That's because, in my honest opinion, it is but another overshadowing, less and less subtle as story progresses, and the main story line shall be eventually easy to predict if you're truly (like, really truly) familiar with Gnosticism.
Most people are not, myself included, and now I wish I had a degree in philosophy instead of administration.
On r/Genshin_Lore someone pointed out that further description of an achievement Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here is a quote engraved above the doors of Hell in Dante Alighieri's Inferno.
Therefore, for the end of my speculations, I am leaving beneath the excerpt of Marriage of Heaven and Hell by William Blake. It's an 18th century book imitating biblical prophecy. No matter what Christians say about Gnosticism and how many Catholics refer to everything they dislike as Gnostic while they mean heresy, these two beliefs wouldn't exist without each other. Same goes to whatever is going on for Khaenri'ah (Abyss Order) and Celestia, as I already mentioned.
Ad astra abyssosque!
THE ARGUMENT
Rintrah roars and shakes his fires in the burden'd air,
Hungry clouds swag on the deep.
Once meek, and in a perilous path
The just man kept his course along
The Vale of Death.
Roses are planted where thorns grow,
And on the barren heath
Sing the honey bees.
Then the perilous path was planted,
And a river and a spring
On every cliff and tomb;
And on the bleached bones
Red clay brought forth:
Till the villain left the paths of ease
To walk in perilous paths, and drive
The just man into barren climes.
Now the sneaking serpent walks
In mild humility;
And the just man rages in the wilds
Where lions roam.
Rintrah roars and shakes his fires in the burden'd air,
Hungry clouds swag on the deep.
As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years since its advent, the Eternal Hell revives. And lo! Swedenborg is the angel sitting at the tomb: his writings are the linen clothes folded up. Now is the dominion of Edom, and the return of Adam into Paradise. - See Isaiah xxxiv. and xxxv. chap.
Without contraries is no progression. Attraction and repulsion, reason and energy, love and hate, are necessary to human existence.
From these contraries spring what the religious call Good and Evil. Good is the passive that obeys reason; Evil is the active springing from Energy.
Good is heaven. Evil is hell.
#Genshin Impact#lore#Gnosticism#egyptian mythology#ancient Egypt#Abyss#Abyss Order#khaenri'ah#Celestia#door#star#lore theories#genshin theory#video game
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Some thoughts on POTC lore, especially for DMTNT
I know that the answer to a lot of my questions are 'it looked cool on camera' and the inconsistences is 'because they rewrote the script several times' but I'm in the middle of writing a fic and I decided to try and make some sense of this messy lore. It's a bit long so its under the cut.
Starting with the gods a bit:
Poseidon:
I think he's dead, from what, we don't know. It seems aside from Calypso that the gods and god-like creatures that once roamed the earth have mostly withdrawn, likely either dead or retreating to realm/realms of their own. (with the 100% confirmation of multiple Greek gods, likely Olympus/the Underworld/etc) With Poseidon dead, Calypso fills the vacuum of looking after the seas until she is bound by the first Brethern court, as she has clearly stuck around and it is said that she and Poseidon are of a similar level in power. Before he died, he created Black Rock Isle, creating the Map No Man Can Read.
Hades:
I think he just vibes in the Underworld, leaving the Locker to whoever is in charge of the Dutchman, and can't be bothered to care much what goes on in the world anymore. He created the Triangle and Curse to protect Black Rock Isle, what I like to think is the last sort of 'godly' thing Poseidon did/made before dying. This is why Hades put his tomb off the coast of the island, that and its very small and remote nature, he knew it would be difficult to find.
Davy Jones and the Dutchman:
The latest iteration of part of the natural order of the sea, bound to an eternal, ever changing vessel that it, in itself, is slightly godlike in its ability to move to and from the Locker. The Locker itself is a part of the Underworld, a special purgatory for those that are not allowed to actually pass on when they die at sea. Jones' curse did not exist before his and Calypso's relationship and breakup, so whoever was on the previous version of the Dutchman was not bound by that rule but understood that they could not ever shirk their duties, and I think Calypso would pick a decent newly dead captain to be the new captain of the Dutchman, and continue the natural order of things. I think of the Dutchman a bit like Charon and his ferry from Greek Mythology.
Note: When I say that the Dutchman changes with the times, I mean that it physically changes. During POTC it looks like a older, sort of late 1600s ship (I know next to nothing about ships, I just noticed that when looking at images) but if we think about as a force of nature, if we jump forward in time, the Dutchman would look like a steam ship at the end/beginning of the 19th/20th century respectively. Today it might look like a fishing vessel, a shipping boat, hell, maybe even a submarine or something, the crew reflecting this change in time.
On the Curse, Triangle, and Trident:
The Triangle:
Once humans started to sail the Caribbean, and started to drift ever so much closer and closer to the island and his brother's tomb, Hades created the curse and the Triangle to house it, (I'm going out on a limb here since we have NO any real 'exact' locations of things other than "the Triangle is in the west of the Windward Isles in the Lesser Antilles." And that Black Rock Isle is just in the Caribbean Sea.) as a sort of wall and gate to deter someone from accidently sailing towards Black Rock Isle. With this in mind, the Triangle is a newer addition to the world, only a few hundred years old at the most when Salazar, The Mary and the crew end up in there in the first decade of the 18th century.
The Curse:
Is likely picky about who it wants to curse, needing something and someone filled with enough murderous intent, rage, or a healthy dose of both for it to curse them. Salazar and his crew aren't the first to be cursed by the Triangle, I would say they are the second. I say second because we know that that chunk of ruby had to make it off the island someway, and my theory/idea supports just the one time the island had been visited by mere mortals before Carina leads them to Black Rock Isle.
The first was a group, likely similar to Salazar and co from, I'm going to say around the early-mid 1500s. They stood there in their hellish purgatory, doing what Salazar did, killing all but one as a warning, creating the legend of the Triangle, and keeping people far away from Black Rock Isle and the tomb. The old cursed ones were destroyed when someone did manage to find the Isle, the Triangle sinking to release them, and they go to protect the island, compelled by the curse to do so. This was not Galileo, as he was not actually able to find the island before his death, but it was by someone else, who managed to get a chunk of a ruby off without dying. (somehow this chunk ends up in Galileo's possession though.) How do they find the island? Maybe they have Jack's compass. Galileo died mid 1600s, so there's at the very least a fifty year gap between Morgan giving Jack the compass and Galileo's death. Since I'm pretty sure we don't know when Morgan got the compass, it's super plausible. (Though, I personally really like the apparent earlier iteration of DMTNT where Jack stole the compass from Salazar, as there is a set photo of an uncursed Salazar holding the compass, either in the middle of shooting a scene or between takes.) They leave, realizing that they can't take anything, (the novelization of DMTNT have a couple of Barbossa's crew on the island, they try to take some gems, and the island swallows them} probably quite a few dead on this crew's side from the cursed men, and sail off. The curse reacts to this, and Hades brings the Triangle back up, and 'resets' the trap, killing the old cursed men since they cannot be outside the Triangle while it stands. Salazar and the crew are just unlucky enough to be the first ones that has what the Triangle needs to curse them when they are tricked into sailing in.
The Trident:
Calypso helps the ancestors of three mermaids in the novel Poseidon's Peak, Morveren, Aquala, and Aquila, steal the gems that Poseidon used in the creation of his weapon. These gems gave him control over the mermaids, the colors corresponding with their tails. The blue tailed mermaids are immune since Calypso gave them a special box to hide them away with. Those same three ancestors steal the Trident away, taking it and using it to rule over all the other mermaids. (Maybe the lack of his weapon allowed him to be weak enough to be be killed?)
The Trident is hidden in a place called Poseidon's Peak, where great treasure has been acquired by the blue tailed mermaids. A thousand years pass, and the blue tails realize there is unrest and resistance to their rule, and give the Trident to a human for safekeeping, Captain Torrents. They had a bargain to share control over the sea, but he ran off with it. He commanded the merfolk to leave their island, Isla Sirena, and pillage the seas for him. The blue tails then ask a young preteen Jack to help them recover it. He does, using the power of the Trident to free all the merfolk, and give the Trident to the merman Tonra for safekeeping. I believe that Hades had Tonra place the Trident in the tomb, as he already had security measures in place to protect Black Rock Isle and the tomb. So there it sat, waiting for Henry to come break it. Those present for Jack's short time with the Trident likely spreading the rumor whether on accident or on purpose, claim it is lost now. Legends grow and change through years and word of mouth, and logically, if it was lost, where would it be but in Poseidon's tomb?
Note: 99% of any info not directly in the movies come from the wiki. I haven't read any of the extended media, nor played any games but i think the kinda bad At World's End pc game when I was a child. So if anything is super wrong, that is where I got my info from.
Feel free to add anything! I've been thinking about how to compile and figure out how to connect lore that very clearly wasn't,,,,, really supposed to connect in a very cohesive, linear way. And fic writers, feel free to use any of this! I'd love to see how y'all fit this into your own stories so feel free to tag me!
#potc#pirates of the caribbean dead men tell no tales#pirates of the caribbean#lore#theories#lore theories#dead men tell no tales#armando salazar#jack sparrow
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HELP GIRL, I AM STARTING TO WANT TO MAKE MY OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE MARIO LORE AGAIN 😭😭😭
I am seeing patterns bro, patterns that could be filled using the Shroobs from Partners in Time
Help, i really wanna do this, but i am still in finals seasons 😭😭😭
#super mario#mario bros#mario and luigi#mario & luigi#partners in time#m&l rpgs#mario and luigi rpg#mario rpg#mario lore#super mario lore#lore#shitpost#theory#lore theories#mario theory#super mario theory
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Fascinated by this line. The choice of words of "a new star" calls to mind the theory that @thedeafprophet and I have about the true nature of the crime of light bringing.
And as I was typing this post I had another thought about another of our theories: is this a vague reference to Fires having been involved in the failed Dawn Machine project?
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thinking about the ancient cities in minecraft.
i love the idea of the cities - ancient cities. these rundown finds at the bottom of the world, covered in some fungus type.... thing. things? the warden with their souls..... filled with experience points. spreading like a mycelium
the idea of these places being so old and forgotten. you may find pottery sherds that has the warden inscribed on them. carved into the deepslate, too. but these little hints, these small remnants of what was and what is left... the player, they know what to carve into the deepslate... (to dip my toes into a seperate theory: "steve"/"alex"/all of the new folks/ just 'the player", they are a type of golem that can gather experience points/souls, and maybe from this they understand pieces of the past via the soul memories.... ???)
the idea that the cities are so old they are so very nearly forgotten.
maybe the centerpiece of them are portals... maybe. but maybe the way to open them has been lost to time.
i just. like the idea of never reaching through that monument into the otherside because of lost and destroyed knowledge.... BUT I WOULD SO LOVE A NEW DIMENSION OMFG. imagine gathering exp and needing to find specific sources and gathering it all in one place to powe- *shot*
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so was the rift that opened during Inversion just a really unlucky time/place situation? because my theory is that CloseKnit knew something bad was attached to Sunshine and the basement was actually underneath D.A.M.N (aka. more power to push aside humans and demons in a disaster because their forces didn't show up on time).
#UNLESS theres something in canon i missed that disproves this#idk its early morning i dont have the energy to fully explain this BUT i hope it makes. sense#bagel fan talk#redactedasmr#redacted theories#lore theories#redacted asmr#redacted sunshine#redacted closeknit#redacted inversion
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thinking about posting my “one thought theories” here cuz why not ٩( ᐛ )و
#it’d probably be mostly HSR and Genshin#cuz brain rot#anyways#tags for reach#honkai star rail#genshin impact#lore thoughts#lore theories#one thought theories#genshin#idk what else to tag
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doodles from the past week
#honkai star rail#hsr#misha hsr#misha honkai star rail#misha#cantobearart#my friend walked me through the penacony lore and theories the other day... im intrigued!
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Lost echoes of English translation
So here I want to discuss what was lost in translation of Marika’s echoes. English is not my native language and my grammar is quite terrible, but I hope result will be comprehensible enough to understand.
Let's start with the echoes from the Church of Pilgrimage and Third Church of Marika. They are extremely important to the narrative as they are explaining the origin of Tarnished, a reason behind Godfrey’s banishment, how the grace works and Marika’s goals. Sadly, they are often overlooked and English translation did them no favor.
My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.
The choice of pronounce is interesting. Marika referers to Godfrey as お前 “omae” ( 我が王よ、王の戦士たちよ。お前たちから、祝福を奪う), a derogatory form of “you” in Japanese, this pronoun is widely considered rude and usually used for inferiors or enemies (”omae wa mou shindeiru” meme). In some cases it’s used by teenagers or family members (by the head of the household), however, in pre-Edo Japan “omae” was actually a polite form of you. Notably, she calls Tarnished omaetachi, plural and a bit more polite form of omae.
But both Radagon and Godfrey are “omae”. She doesn’t value one over another, she uses for Godfrey the same prounonce as she uses for Radagon when she calls him a dog instead of leal hound in JP. In the end they are her tools and treated as such.
A bit of offtopic, but I noticed the raise of “poor Marika was forced by the Greater Will to banish her beloved Godfrey for his ties with the Crucible Knights” and I just can’t.
Not only Godfrey’s banishment is temporary, but Godfrey couldn’t be exiled for his close relations with Crucible Knights because Crucible Knights themselves weren’t exiled in the first place. They are still in Leyndell, no one of them was sent away with Tarnished. Some of them abandoned their duty after the Shattering, but nothing in lore suggests that they were ostracized by the higher ups. Various decriptions are mentioning that Gelmir soldiers rebelled against Rykard, Cuckoo’s Knights turned their backs against Rennala, Carian Knights followed Miquella, but nowhere it is mentioned that Crucible Knights were banished from Leyndell forces.
Back on the rails.
Really didn't like the choice of translation here. 赴くままにエルデンリングを掲げるがよい was translated as “brandish the Elden Ring”, not only EN misses 赴くままに “following this way” part, which is quite important since we are talking about Elden Ring, an object which shape dictates laws of reality, and 掲げる is nowhere as offensive as “brandish”, it’s “to raise up” or “to put up”. The same verb is used for the description of Dectus Medallion (２つの割符を合わせ、掲げること) and what are we doing with it? We are raising halves of the Medallion and mending them together.
- Marika never wanted to give up on the Elden Ring, a creation of the Greater Will (Elden Stars: It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring)
- she expected that Elden Ring will be repaired in the end and in a certain manner (if you look at the grace before Godfrey’s bossfight the grace claims Tarnished as a target. I assume she wouldn't want Tarnished to win because Tarnished has a freedom of choice in the end - 3 different mending runes, Age of Stars, Frenzied Flame, unlike Godfrey who will do exactly what she wants)
- she lowkey hints that she is going to shatter the Elden Ring by saying that it should be mended for some reason in the future
I guess that “with thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between” is what make some people think that Godfrey and Tarnished were exiled by the third party because EN uses passive verb “will be driven”, while in JP it’s clear that Marika herself dimmed the eyes of Godfey and Tarnished and sent them away そして、その瞳が色褪せたとき、狭間の地を追放する. Marika never speaks about her actions in passive form, she is always in charge and controls the situation. “I will banish you from the Lands Between” instead of vague “will be driven” (presumably by someone else).
tl;dr: Godfrey’s exile isn’t a punishment, it’s a part of Marika’s machinations. She wants to create an army of the strong, immortal warriors for her future plans.
Just to be clear, in this post I’m talking about goals that are mentioned/estabilished in dialogues or descriptions. I’ll try to keep at bay theories and headcanons.
What Marika wanted before she got locked in the Erdtree:
- to create Tarnished
- to shatter Elden Ring/repair it again
- Tarnished were supposed to slaughter demigods and a god. (Your kind are meant to challenge them. To slay them. The demigods. And their a god/ Use my masterpiece to slay a god.That is all that I have lived for. And my promise to Q-queen Marika. - master Hewg) It’s never specified, who is a god in question - Marika/Radagon, Elden Beast or any of ascended Empyreans. It’s worth noting that Tarnished mission doesn’t revolve about killing only a god, demigods, Marika’s children and faravaway descendants, should be killed too.
What Marika wanted after she got locked in the Erdtree (questionable):
- set the Erdtree aflame and burn the impenetrable thorns
I put this one in questionable category because there is no direct confirmation that Melina is Marika’s daughter/collaborator, even though eveything screams about it. However, I believe that Melina was created in response of Radagon blocking the Erdtree with his rune:
(while browsing Melina’s dialogues I’ve found something interesting, Melina refers a person, who blocked the Erdtree (Radagon) as a “husk of a self” in JP or “husk of Erdtree’s being” in EN, which almost confirms my old theory that “Radagon of the Golden Order” we are fighting is animated corpses, this is why he doesn’t speak, use magic or drop the remembrance)
The consequences of the placement of this rune on the Erdtree are outstanding to at least and deserves their own post, here I want to mention the most basic one: it leads to the destruction of the Golden Order.
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored (Mending rune of Death Prince)
I also can’t get over the comedy of Morgott religiously protecting Erdtree for centuries because he naively believes that Erdtree blocked itself (The Erdtree wards off all who deign approach) without knowledge that Erdtree is blocked by Radagon.
And this rune sends Two Fingers into “404: The Greater Will not found” mode until the end of the game. Also, the sealing of the Erdtree is contradicting with Radagon’s attempt to mend the Elden Ring, but it’s an offtopic.
Let’s talk about echoes again, here is a line from “leal hound” speech in Queen’s bedchamber.
O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self
さあ、共に砕けようぞ！我が半身よ！
Come, let’s shatter together. My half-body!*
Direct translation is half-body, but 半身” used by native Japanese speakers talking about the D twins, “other half” or “other self” still works. But the most notorious change is that it’s another example when Marika uses passive “let us be shattered in EN”, while in JP she invites Radagon to join her. I’m genuinely fed up with “Radagon was sent to control Marika” plague of headcanons, there is nothing that suggests his control over her at least from Marika’s POV. It’s the opposite, he is “omae”, Marika’s subordinate, he is 黄金律の犬よ, a dog of the Golden Order, her dog, considering that she is a god of the Golden Order. She doesn’t hide from him that she is going to shatter 砕けよ the Elden Ring, even more so, she approaches him about her plans and expects that he will participate or more like obey her order.
(”dog” in a major insult in many Eastern countries, for example in Genshin Impact it’s censored in chat)
お前はまだ、私ではない。まだ、神ではない。
This quote (you’re not yet me, you're not yet a god) is pretty much the same in JP, but I’ve found it’s interesting that Marika calls Radagon half-body, but doesn’t consider him as a god. “Gods” in Elden Ring are vessels of the outer gods or the Elden Ring, in the end we can see Elden Ring in Radagon’s body, he became a god, but prior to it he was a half-body and not yet a god. It’s confuding, yes. Him not being a vessel of the Elden Ring implies that he had physical autonomy and was separate from Marika, however, she calls him a half-body.
Hear me, demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which you desire. Be it a lord. Be it a god. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices…
I was surprised to find out how many people in Western fandom view this quote as a motivational speech. In Chinese and Japanese there is no way to read this quote as something positive, Marika doesn’t aspire her children to become something (ie “follow your dreams”) like a caring mother or gives them a freedom of choice, she limits their options to “Elden a lord” and “a god” 王であれ、神であれ, very specific positions in Elden Ring verse. Even then she has an army of Tarnished with a task to wage war on the Lands Between and a smith, who was cursed to forge a weapon against demigods and gods. Makes me wonder if she encourages her children to fight each other on purpose, following good old “divide and conquer” rule.
(However, she doesn’t reinforce them to become Elden lord)
To be fair, EN ignored もう “soon”, so maybe she expected that the strongest demigods are going to succeed her as a god/elden lord, but they failed and she decided to become a god once again. (Remember that before the Shattering Two Fingers began to pick new Empyreans to replace her?)
Wait, didn’t Marika discovered dark secrets of the Golden Order? Isn’t Erdtree is a parasite that syphons souls to the alien invader the Greater Will? Isn’t Marika a savior from an evil cosmic horror?
Greattree doesn’t exist.
The Greater Will... granted souls.
…すべては、大きなひとつから、分かたれた 分かたれ、産まれ、心を持った
けれどそれは、大いなる意志の過ちだった だから、戻さなくてはならない
All that there was divided from the One Great. Divided, born and given heart. But it was a mistake of the Greater Will (Hyetta)
(Seriously, what’s up with EN constantly describing something without involvement of the subject of sentence? EN sounds like “fractures and births” happened without the Greater Will, it completely misses the point of the conflict between the Greater Will and the Frenzied Flame, the followers of the latter believe that creation of individuality, disparity and kokoro was a mistake because it’s the root of the suffering. It’s a a reference to Gnosticism)
Okay, here is a famous echo from Minor Erdtree Church:
I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?
“depth of the Golden Order” isn’t a thing as well, 黄金律の探究を、ここに宣言する Marika does a research of the Golden Order, but in a less formal way.
JP: あるべき正しさを知ることが、我らの信仰を、祝福を強くする
Marikas promises that she will increase the grace of the people, who will follow the right way, while in EN “the grace will be increased” (by whom?) English translation and removal of Marika’s agency, name more iconic duo. She basically encourages her comrades to follow her teachings, she is a religious leader, a god after all. While without a context this quote may sound like something motivational (see: “children beloved”), you should remember that the Golden Order founding rule is “there is no god but Marika” and her religion was becoming more and more fanatical over the course of history to the point when incantation book of Two Fingers became a heresy. The blissful early days weren’t half as bad.
I’m not going deny that in way this quote sounds like Marika has certain doubts about the Golden Order, but the thing is that the Golden Order is her creation and in the end it’s just one many Orders that can be created with the power of the Elden Ring. The Greater Will isn’t representative of the Golden Order, it’s about Order in a more broad sense.
Even Marika understands the difference:
The Erdtree governs all. The choice is thine. Become one with the Order. Or divest thyself of it. To wallow at the fringes; a powerless upstart
我らの律の一部となるか？それとも律の外にあり・・・
Genuinely speaking, I have no idea, who she refers in that quote from Grand Lift of Dectus, but maybe it doesn’t matter. She tries to estabilish(?) political alliance, if you can call it one, considering that she is talking from a position of power. EN creates an illusion of freedom (”The choice is thine”), while in JP this quote reads more like: “Join our Order or die in the ditch”, where she views Order as the source of her power.
And the last one, the echo from the First Church of Marika:
Hark, brave warriors. Hark, my lord Godfrey. We commend your deeds. Guidance has delivered ye through ordeal to the place ye stand. Put the giants to the sword and confine the flame atop the mount. Let a new epoch begin. An epoch glistening with life. Brandish the Elden Ring, for the Age of the Erdtree!
導きに従い、よくここまで戦ってくれた
EN is at it again, “you followed my guidance” instead of someone else’s guidance. Marika leads her army by her own volition, EN makes it sounds like she was ordered to do it.
エルデンリングを掲げ、我ら黄金樹の時代を！
The first echo in chronological order mirrors the echo from the Church of Pilgrimage, Marika uses “raise Elden Ring” when she leads her army to fight the Fire Giants and eventually estabilish the age of the Erdtree; she uses the same wording when she sends Tarnished far away with a goal to return them back, fight and raise Elden Ring (again).
In this one and a previous echo the Golden Order isn’t mentioned, I assume that it wasn’t estabilished during war on Giants.
Here are my final observations:
The overall tone is very different, in JP Marika speaks like warlord from medieval Japan, she is a military dictator, who bosses everyone around her. EN refined her speech pattern like a lot, it added flowery old English, which is not bad in terms of autentic fantasy atmosphere, but often portrays her like a passive bystander or a subject of someone else’s actions. Is this the reason behind fandom’s obsession of turning Marika into innocent damsel in distress, who was oppressed in fifty different ways? I mean, I can’t say that EN translation is bad, it has a different purpose than 1:1 accuracy, but in terms of lore and characters portrayal it’s quite questionable.
Well, it’s over, if you read this, thank you and sorry for my grammar again. I hope it was helpful.
P.S. Thank you @subterranean-subalternsmall for pointing that “半身” used by native japanese speakers talking about the D twins, “other half” or “other self” is still a way to call Radagon
#elden ring#marika#queen marika#radagon#godfrey#morgott#melina#elden ring lore#lore theories#tarnished#longread#JP
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A hypothetical look at the childhoods of Carlo and Romeo
Despite Carlo and Romeo being two of the most central characters of Lies of P, what we know about their backstory is next to marginal. We know that the two of them went to school together and were best friends (perhaps even more than that), but their time in Monad Charity House is only presented in snippets and fragmented memories, and despite being highly significant, their characters remain elusive - like shadows cast over the entirety of the story, always present, never tangible.
Thus, many have filled the gaps left in their characterization with their own imagination. As for myself, I was curious what their early lives might have been like, before they met at Monad Charity House - and since it was the closest thing to the game's setting I could find, I did some research on Victorian children and their upbringing.
What I found out, however, left me absolutely shocked and made me keenly aware of just how awful Carlo and Romeo's childhood must have been, going by historic standards. As pretty much everything during the Victorian Era, a child's upbringing was very dependent on social class - however, no matter if you grew up in a rich or poor family, each came with its own kind��of suffering, and regarding the question of "What were Carlo and Romeo's lives like before Monad Charity House?", the brief answer would be: "Probably not great."
As for the long answer... I should mention this is my own interpretation of Carlo and Romeo's backgrounds, and none of this is officially confirmed. However, given what we know about the two's origins, I consider it quite plausible, and what we can conclude from it might not only give us better insight into their personalities, but also some of the real-life background behind the original fairy tale of Pinocchio.
Just as a fair warning, though: This is about to get a little depressing.
[Spoilers for Lies of P!]
[CW: mentions of very questionable parenting methods, depression, suicidal ideation, poverty, parent death, child labor, abuse and exploitation of children]
Carlo
For this analysis, I'm going to assume that Carlo was born into a fairly well-off household. (The description of Carlo's portrait calls him "an aristocratic boy", and since Geppetto is the mastermind behind Krat's puppet technology, I assume he'd have his fair share of the profits.)
By the standard of their time, upper-class children were quite spoiled: Unlike their working-class peers, they never had to worry about who was going to provide food for them, and the horrors of child labor were never of any concern to them. You would think that being born into a rich family doesn't leave you a single thing to wish for - you'd have nice toys, fine clothes... and well, everything, except for parental affection.
For the most part of the day, upper-class children wouldn't even see their parents - they were only summoned to appear before them at a set hour of the day, and during these occasions, they had to address their fathers as "sir". Essentially, meeting your parents was more like an audience with a stranger, a rare privilege strictly regulated by formality. Children were expected to act prim and proper, only allowed to speak when spoken to, and thus unable to express their true feelings, thoughts, or opinions. Any show of affection was extremely rare - Winston Churchill (1874 - 1945) once remarked that he could "count the times he had been hugged by his mother" as a child.
The parents were more or less completely absent from their children's lives, and when there actually was interaction between them, the children were expected to unconditionally obey their parents. Osbert Sitwell (1892 - 1969) once commented: "Parents were aware that the child would be a nuisance and a whole bevy of servants, in addition to the complex guardianship of nursery and school rooms was necessary not so much to aid the infant as to screen him from his father or mother, except on some occasions as he could be used by them as adjuncts, toys or decorations." (Can you imagine? Geppetto taking Carlo to some big social event to show off his "perfect little son", and Carlo just standing there and silently enduring the ordeal, looking at his father all the while and wondering "Did he ever realize I'm not one of his puppets?")
So, by the standard of the time period Lies of P is set in, Geppetto neglecting his son isn't even anything terribly unusual - in fact, that's perfectly normal Victorian upper-class parent behavior.
Since they didn't take care of their children themselves, upper-class parents would hire a nanny to raise them. Nannies would be instructed what kind of behavior and morals the parents wanted instilled into their child, and they would be responsible for their education as well as teaching them manners, propriety, how to dress and so on. As such, the nanny effectively acted as a substitute for the parents - and given that maid puppets exist and Geppetto probably wouldn't let any strangers near Carlo, Carlo's nanny was most likely a puppet as well.
The daily life of upper-class children was based on strict routine - some like to say it operated with "clockwork regularity". Breakfast would be served at 8 o'clock in the morning, dinner at 12 o'clock, and tea at 6 o'clock.* Children would very seldom leave their room, except to take short walks in the park with their nanny. Education would mostly be given at home by a tutor, which included basic lessons like reading, writing, and arithmetic, but also "socially appropriate skills" like dancing and playing the piano. (Since we see a puppet giving piano lessons to a child in the intro, chances are Carlo's tutors were also puppets.)
*Eating times varied throughout the Victorian Era; a "dinner" might also be a meal eaten during midday.
The rest of the time, children would have nothing to do but to play with their toys (except on Sundays, which was forbidden). Rich families had the luxury of being able to afford the most elaborate of toys, such as automated dolls, clockwork trains, and jack-in-the-boxes, which were extremely popular among children. In fact, since clockmakers were also the ones to build toys, I could imagine Geppetto actually made the toys for Carlo himself. (However, I feel like this only would have made Carlo loathe them; in his eyes, it would've been proof that "father pays more attention to the toys he makes for me than actually looking at me".)
In short, the life of Victorian upper-class children was lonely, depressing, and stuffy to the point of suffocating. Given these circumstances, I would actually be surprised if this didn't leave mental scars on Carlo. It has been documented that a lack of parental affection causes psychological issues lasting all the way into adulthood, such as low self-esteem, trust issues, anxiety, difficulty with social relationships, and lack of emotional control. Also, considering Carlo was probably surrounded by puppet servants all day, he wouldn't even have had a single human being to interact with most of the time - something which most likely had a detrimental effect on his psyche.
Given this dreary existence, it would make absolute sense for Carlo to look nothing short of depressed in every depiction we see of him. The feeling of emptiness when being pressed into the corset of others' expectations is actually something I'm well acquainted with - it feels like walking beside yourself, like your body moving while actually feeling dead inside. A bit like a puppet on strings, if you will. With his life being a monotonous routine controlled by someone else, it wouldn't be surprising if Carlo had difficulty still seeing a purpose in it. (There have been some theories going around that Carlo committed suicide; at the very least, I think it's highly likely he had suicidal ideations during his youth.)
Perhaps this is where Pinocchio - the character from the fairy tale - might have become something like an identification figure for Carlo. Pinocchio was a puppet, but instead of doing what his creator intended - what his father expected - he did whatever he wanted. I'm sure Geppetto gave him the book as a measure to educate him, but it ended up having the opposite effect. In fact, it might have been what first taught him the concept of freedom: Geppetto's puppets only ever did what he told them to, executing the exact actions he had programmed them with, over and over again - but Pinocchio showed Carlo that it didn't have to be this way. (I've seen a lot of interpretations of Carlo disliking puppets, and while I can see where this is coming from, I don't think this is because Carlo disliked puppets in general. Rather, I think he saw them as "extended arms" of his father and a symbol of his need to control everything around him; otherwise, it would be a little strange for Carlo to be attached to the story of Pinocchio so much.)
However, I think beneath all the pent-up frustration and hatred, there was also the wish for his father to love and appreciate him. At the end of the book, Pinocchio returns to his father after all the hardships he had to go through, and the two reconcile and live happily ever after. Since Pinocchio's father goes looking for him when he disappears, perhaps Carlo believed that if he rebelled against him and put himself in danger, Geppetto would realize that he actually cared for him.
So, if Carlo was very prone to temper tantrums and acting defiantly towards his father, it might have been on one hand to show that he didn't want to be part of Geppetto's perfect stage play anymore, and on the other because he was vying for his attention. Due to his upbringing, however, Carlo wasn't really able to communicate his feelings in a proper way. (I like to imagine Carlo as a very emotional person, but having difficulty to actually express his feelings.)
Geppetto, however, wouldn't have the sensitivity to understand this - he most likely would've tried to rectify his son's "mischievous behavior" by disciplining, as was typical for the time period (in general, it was believed that you had to "beat the evil out of children" for them to become a good person). Of course, that wouldn't have made things better - in fact, I wonder if part of the reason Geppetto sent Carlo to Monad Charity House was that he was just at a loss what to do with the boy. Since all of his educational measures were fruitless, perhaps he thought that sending him to the boarding school would finally put Carlo on the right track - although the result of that probably was also quite different from what Geppetto expected.
Romeo
Meanwhile, poor Victorian children had to live in a completely different, brutal reality - for them, day-to-day life was a literal struggle to stay alive.
We know that Romeo was an orphan, and according to Eugénie, that's not much of a rarity in Krat. Indeed, street children existed in abundance during Victorian times: It wasn't uncommon for working-class children to lose one or both parents - due to unsanitary conditions in Victorian slums, many people died of disease, and given the hazardous working conditions in factories and coal mines, accidents were commonplace. However, the term of a Victorian orphan was actually a little broader than that, also extending to children who ran away from home due to hailing from alcoholic and neglectful families. Often, mothers who were single or had a child out of wedlock would also simply abandon their children. Whatever the reason for their situation, these children were forced to fend for themselves at a very young age.
In the Trinity Sanctum in Krat Central Station, there's a note mentioning a "pickpocket who was overconfident in a gamble" and "had his heart stolen and died". Since Romeo made "a deal with the devil" (the "devil" presumably being Geppetto who turned him into a puppet), people have interpreted this as referring to Romeo. Turing to crime to support themselves was not a rarity among poor Victorian children - in fact, half of the defendants tried at the Central Criminal Court of England and Wales between 1830 and 1860 were aged 20 or younger. There were even organized gangs of child thieves who were trained in pickpocketing by a "captain", similar to those from Charles Dickens' novel Oliver Twist. (However, the items that were stolen most often were actually not purses or pocket watches, but handkerchiefs; silk handkerchiefs had a pretty high resale value, and the thieves would take them from pockets, rip out the initials, and resell them for a good price.)
We can't be sure whether Romeo teamed up with a few other kids or not, but personally, I'd wager he did - it would be much safer to operate in a group in case one of them gets in trouble, and overall, Romeo's personality seems a bit too caring for a lone wolf. (As the King of Puppets, he was not only determined to save as many humans as possible, but also possessed the unconditional trust and loyalty of the other puppets. To me, this means he most likely cared about them, and they cared about him in return - if it was just programming, the puppets probably wouldn't be lamenting his loss after he dies. Compare this to Geppetto, who has to use force and coercion for others to obey him.)
Also, since the notes in the Trinity Sanctums always seem to have a connection to the place where they're located (factory worker -> factory; cleric -> cathedral; "greatest singer"/Adelina -> opera house), that would mean the train station was most likely Romeo's base of operations.* (Train stations tend to be very popular among thieves, since it's easier to pick pockets in the confusion of people boarding or getting off trains.) This would imply that Romeo didn't grow up in Monad Charity House since he was an infant, but arrived there at a later point during his childhood.
*EDIT: I just had a thought that the note in the Trinity Sanctum could also mean the train station is the place where Romeo died. (All the other notes are connected to murder or some other violent action, and since we can assume they were written by Arlecchino, he was probably more interested in that.) Since Geppetto has his secret workshop wagon in Krat Central Station, maybe the place where he built P is the same where he built Romeo.
Since there were so many orphaned children, the few orphanages that existed couldn't receive all of them. Instead, workhouses were established as institutions for all kinds of destitute people - including orphans - who were unable to support themselves and were given lodging and food in exchange for labor. However, many children actually preferred living on the streets, rather turning to crime than going to the workhouse. At a first glance, this may seem a bit unreasonable - surely, not having to run around in worn-down rags and steal your food just to survive would at least be an improvement?
Well... Turns out, not really. The conditions in Victorian workhouses were notoriously awful - they were overcrowded, unsanitary, and cruel places to live. Daily routine was strictly regimented, consisting of 9–10 hours of repetitive and physically demanding labor and very little free time. What little food there was was of poor quality, privacy was basically nonexistent, and the dozens of inmates sleeping together in dormitories often had to share their beds - children usually had to sleep up to four in a bed. The consequences for refusal of work or any kind of rule violation were beatings, deprivation of food, being locked up in solitary confinement in a dark cell, and other draconian punishments.
If this doesn't sound like a very hospitable atmosphere, that's because that was the exact intention behind it. Workhouses weren't meant to support poor people - they were supposed to scare them into finding work and make a living for themselves. Victorians viewed poverty as a self-imposed misery, and if you were a pauper, that was because you were lazy, retarded, or made bad choices in life. That's why beggars, vagrants, orphans, criminals, and mentally ill people were all indiscriminately housed in workhouses, because from the Victorian point of view, they all belonged to the same category of people: A stain that had to be removed from the public eye, either by forcing them to support themselves or by making use of their work force once they had donned the workhouse uniform. They were a nuisance to society, and their treatment in the workhouse was sure to make them feel that.
One of the worst fates for workhouse children, however, was to be hired out as pauper apprentices: Usually from 10-13 years of age, but sometimes as young as eight or seven, workhouses would send pauper children to factories in the countryside for an "apprenticeship". This "apprenticeship" involved factory owners buying children from orphanages and workhouses and making them sign a contract that lasted until they were 21 years of age, dictating that the apprentices had to be provided with food and accommodation, and in exchange, the factory owner was free to make use of their working power.
So in summary, workhouse orphans were essentially sold into slavery. This was all that much easier to do with children who had no parents and no other means to support themselves, and thus were free to be exploited by their employers. Some of the recollections from these former pauper apprentices are just utterly horrific - and in this case, I think it's appropriate to let the victims speak for themselves.
John Birley, who lost his father when he was two, lived in the Bethnal Green Workhouse for a time after his mother died of illness when he was around six. He was sent to Litton Mill as a pauper apprentice, and he had this to say about his experiences in an interview with The Ashton Chronicle in 1849 (source):
The same year my mother died, I being between six and seven years of age, there came a man looking for a number of parish apprentices. We were all ordered to come into the board room, about forty of us. There were, I dare say, about twenty gentlemen seated at a table, with pens and paper before them. Our names were called out one by one. We were all standing before them in a row. My name was called and I stepped out in the middle of the room. They said, "Well John, you are a fine lad, would you like to go into the country?" I said "Yes sir".
We had often talked over amongst ourselves how we should like to be taken into the country, Mr. Nicholls the old master, used to tell us what fine sport we should have amongst the hills, what time we should have for play and pleasure. He said we should have plenty of roast beef and get plenty of money, and come back gentlemen to see our friends.
The committee picked out about twenty of us, all boys. In a day or two after this, two coaches came up to the workhouse door. We were got ready. They gave us a shilling piece to take our attention, and we set off. I can remember a crowd of women standing by the coaches, at the workhouse door, crying "shame on them, to send poor little children away from home in that fashion." Some of them were weeping. I heard one say, "I would run away if I was them." They drove us to the Paddington Canal, where there was a boat provided to take us.
We got to Buxton at four o'clock on Saturday afternoon. A covered cart was waiting for us there. We all got in, and drove off to the apprentice house at Litton Mill, about six miles from Buxton. The cart stopped, and we marched up to the house, where we saw the master, who came to examine us and gave orders where we were put. [...]
Our regular time was from five in the morning till nine or ten at night; and on Saturday, till eleven, and often twelve o'clock at night, and then we were sent to clean the machinery on the Sunday. No time was allowed for breakfast and no sitting for dinner and no time for tea. We went to the mill at five o'clock and worked till about eight or nine when they brought us our breakfast, [...]
We then worked till nine or ten at night when the water-wheel stopped. We stopped working, and went to the apprentice house, about three hundred yards from the mill. It was a large stone house, surrounded by a wall, two to three yards high, with one door, which was kept locked. It was capable of lodging about one hundred and fifty apprentices. Supper was the same as breakfast - onion porridge and dry oatcake. We all ate in the same room and all went up a common staircase to our bed-chamber; all the boys slept in one chamber, all the girls in another. We slept three in one bed. [...]
Mr. Needham, the master, had five sons: Frank, Charles, Samuel, Robert and John. The sons and a man named Swann, the overlooker, used to go up and down the mill with hazzle sticks. Frank once beat me till he frightened himself. He thought he had killed me. He had struck me on the temples and knocked me dateless. He once knocked me down and threatened me with a stick. To save my head I raised my arm, which he then hit with all his might. My elbow was broken. I bear the marks, and suffer pain from it to this day, and always shall as long as I live.
I was determined to let the gentleman of the Bethnal Green parish know the treatment we had, and I wrote a letter with John Oats and put it into the Tydeswell Post Office. It was broken open and given to old Needham. He beat us with a knob-stick till we could scarcely crawl. Sometime after this three gentlemen came down from London. But before we were examined we were washed and cleaned up and ordered to tell them we liked working at the mill and were well treated. Needham and his sons were in the room at the time. They asked us questions about our treatment, which we answered as we had been told, not daring to do any other, knowing what would happen if we told them the truth."
In case there were any surviving family members, the children were sometimes deported without their knowledge. In 1849, Sarah Carpenter related the story of her lost brother who was taken away from Bristol Workhouse to The Ashton Chronicle (source):
When I was eight years old my father died and our family had to go to the Bristol Workhouse. My brother was sent from Bristol workhouse in the same way as many other children were - cart-loads at a time. My mother did not know where he was for two years. He was taken off in the dead of night without her knowledge, and the parish officers would never tell her where he was.
It was the mother of Joseph Russell who first found out where the children were, and told my mother. We set off together, my mother and I, we walked the whole way from Bristol to Cressbrook Mill in Derbyshire. We were many days on the road.
Mrs. Newton fondled over my mother when we arrived. [...] My brother told me that Mrs. Newton's fondling was all a blind; but I was so young and foolish, and so glad to see him again; that I did not heed what he said, and could not be persuaded to leave him. They would not let me stay unless I would take the shilling binding money. I took the shilling and I was very proud of it.
They took me into the counting house and showed me a piece of paper with a red sealed horse on which they told me to touch, and then to make a cross, which I did. This meant I had to stay at Cressbrook Mill till I was twenty one.
So, if the situation in the Lies of P universe in any way resembles that during the real-life 19th century, and if these street children are in any way smart, I think it's very understandable they'd want to stay the hell away from the workhouse or any similar institution. Of course, it would be easy to attribute this to laziness, but honestly, I'd say they just wanted to avoid the abuse. (You could pose the question whether there are even any lowly paid jobs for children to do in the LoP universe, since a lot of those were probably taken over by puppets. However, if you ask me, that might only lead to employers trying to underbid the price that puppet laborers would cost, which would lead to serious wage cuts for any human workers - we know there was a violent protest of the factory labor union, which might have happened for a reason like this. Also, I reckon the puppet industry itself would create new branches of "dirty work", like recycling parts from scrapped puppets, disposing of puppet junk, etc.)
In fact, these harrowing stories happen to have quite a few parallels to the original fairy tale of Pinocchio. Did you notice? The children are taken away in coaches and carts, in a way that conceals their presence (e.g. in a covered cart or in the dead of the night), which is very reminiscent of the Coachman picking up boys at night (in the book, the coach is described as having wrapped wheels, so it doesn't make noise and can't be discovered). At first, the children are told they can make a fortune by working in the textile mills and will have plenty of time for leisure - in A memoir of Robert Blincoe from 1828, it's even mentioned they tried to lure children into working in a cotton mill by telling them that "they would be transformed into ladies and gentlemen" when they arrived there, that "they would be fed on roast beef and plum pudding, be allowed to ride their masters' horses, and have silver watches, and plenty of cash in their pockets". This sounds quite similar to the Coachman promising the boys unlimited play time and freedom if they come with him to the Land of Toys. However, as both the pauper apprentice children and the boys from Pinocchio had to realize, all of this was a fraud to exploit them for what is essentially slave labor.
This also suggests that with his depiction of the Land of Toys, Carlo Collodi was doing more than just telling a horror story to scare kids into behaving. He was commenting on a real-life problem - and this, exactly this, is what Collodi wanted to warn his young readers about. In that sense, the boys turning into donkeys might also be a metaphor for what their employers saw them as: livestock, to be used and abused as they pleased.
Because the living conditions of workhouse children were so appalling, there was clamor for change, specifically among the reformist middle class. It was argued that orphans and destitute children should be housed in an institution meant exclusively for them, rather than together with criminals, cripples, and lunatics. The movement really began to pick up speed in mid-19th century, and many orphanages were founded by private benefactors and philanthropists. One of the most influential was Thomas John Barnardo, the founder of the charity Barnardos, who built homes for waifs, strays, and all kinds of children in need to provide them with a place to live, food, and education.
In general, there was an effort to make education accessible to even the lowest classes. Sunday Schools and Ragged Schools were established, which allowed poor children to take classes without having to pay a fee, giving them more opportunities in later life. However, the parents of working-class children were often against them going to school, since it meant that they couldn't work to earn additional income for the family. This is why attending school was made mandatory for all children between 5 and 10 in 1870, with the leaving age being raised to 11 in 1893. (This is also what Carlo Collodi meant by saying "for the love of God, get yourself some education" - because if you didn't, you would be stuck in a circle of bone-breaking labor forever.)
The Monad Charity House fits quite well into this historical frame: We do know that the Rose Estate was originally a charity organization for poor children, but was turned into a boarding school after Lady Isabelle and the Monad family started sponsoring money. Since charities for poor children are a phenomenon of the mid- to late-19th century, it's possible the situation was a lot worse before in the Lies of P universe as well. Romeo might not have gone there willingly (perhaps he was caught during one of his thefts), and truth be told, Victorian schools weren't the most rosy of affairs (if you'd like to know the details, feel free to check out this page). However, given what could've been his fate, Romeo probably considered himself lucky to be alive and not exploited by someone else for donkey work. (Still, one thing that should be kept in mind is that the Alchemists' patronage of the Rose Estate probably isn't based on purely altruistic motives: Since all of the children are trained as Stalkers, Alchemists, or Workshop Technicians, all of them ultimately become part of Krat's economic apparatus.)
It seems almost miraculous that two boys coming from such different worlds would develop such a strong bond. However, despite this, they had one experience in common: pain. Although the way in which they suffered might have differed, they both knew what it's like to be abandoned. Romeo had to grow up in a society that didn't care whether he lived or died, and since all Carlo ever received from his father was scrutiny or cold ignorance, he probably felt the same about him. Living in a cruel world where the odds were stacked against them, it's easy to see why these kindred souls sought comfort in each other.
In any case, if the untold backstory of these characters was crafted with this in mind, my sincerest compliments go to the people of Neowiz for not only taking such a nuanced approach to child education in a historical context, but also for doing so with respect to the original story by Carlo Collodi. It may be really subtle at times, but you can't deny how much effort the devs put into the themes - themes that are so universal to human psychology that they continue to be relevant today, and undoubtedly made the story resonate with a lot of people.
#lies of p#lies of p carlo#lies of p romeo#lies of p geppetto#analysis#lore theories#the adventures of pinocchio#carlo collodi#I've never used so many content warnings in a post before xD#Carlo seriously has one of the most messed up family situations I've ever seen#like I knew it was bad; but I had no idea it was THAT BAD#also I was floored when I found out that the Coachman essentially had a real-life inspiration#anyway here I am back to trying to deduce story contents based on historical comparisons xD
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For the sixth day:
Melina is aromantic and asexual. She’s never really felt what other people described as desire, lust, or even a crush, even when she had a physical body. But then she met a tarnished, and they developed a close bond. Not sexual or romantic in nature, though on cold nights they would huddle beside the faint warmth of grace and take solace in each other’s company.
But that love lead to the dark path her tarnished took in order to save her. And she felt what could only be described as heartbreak as the flames of his betrayal burned her to ash.
When she met a new tarnished, she was hesitant to trust, hesitant to let them close, despite her hazy memories. But as she traveled with this new tarnished, saw their love for Torrent, saw their fearless determination, it became hard to remain detached.
In her search through Leyndell she remembered her full purpose, her past, and the full reality of Vike’s betrayal. Despite that she decided to trust again, determined to succeed where she had failed and burn herself for the world, the Lands Between, and this new tarnished.
But would the flames seduce yet another she loved to their mad glory?
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Star Rail: Franz Kafka and Gnosticism? Absolutely! First lore thoughts.
Playing Star Rail and reading Pistis Sophia so y'all don't have to. Additional intel in links.
First things first.
That Kafka lady is named after Franz Kafka…
…and her supposed hobby and doings at the beginning of the game reference two of his writings — The City Coat of Arms and The Metamorphosis.
The City Coat of Arms is the story about the creation of the Tower of Babel.
Know where do we see the tower? The Destruction path, followed by our protagonist. The condensed power called Collapsing Sky is the free boost they receive, with its artwork looking like this:
Just so happens, The Tower is also a tarot card, and let me quote Cyberpunk 2077 Tarot Card Journal here:
The Tower is an omen of radical change, chaos and destruction. The lightning striking The Tower signifies a return to the old order that lies buried under the ruins, and a new order that will rise from it. It is a symbol of tragedy, apocalypse, and self-destruction.
The Metamorphosis reference is, however, very loose.
It's anime-inspired game, after all. What you need to know, though, is that Franz Kafka declared himself an atheist…
…while Kafka lady did some pretty Gnostic stuff.
I say hi to all my fellow Genshin Impact players here. Listen up, it's important. In Pistis Sophia — Gnostic text considered classic — the Aeon (!) after whom the book got its title, goes through some kind of confusing and scary metamorphosis. She's eventually escorted back home by two archangels, her light (brightness, wisdom) being poured back to her body. In Star Rail, lady Kafka is accompanied by someone else and puts light (?) into Trailblazer's body. Again. Because our protagonist recognizes her.
Now back to Pistis Sophia. Sophia meets her true savior (spoiler: it's Jesus), who tells her she'll go three more times through the cycle of losing power and getting it back the same way it just had happened. What does that mean for us, players? It is an indicator the cycle we're going through now, definitely isn't the first. Either the second or the third, depending how creators develop Star Rail's plot and ending.
Star Rail mixes Pistis Sophia and the Hymn of the Pearl together.
I hope everyone remembers the Battle Pass cutscene in Genshin Impact, because that's what the Hymn of the Pearl is. And it nicely explains the amnesia stuff. Gnostics value forbidden knowledge beyond anything else; basically you're a sinner for not knowing shit, but at the same time you're temporarily safe from this burden and open to experience new things. Whether you like it or not.
While we're still in topic, take a look at Trailblazer's attire — hooded coat in earthly colors with golden/yellow accents. These colors are highly valued in: Christianity, Gnosticism and Chinese culture. While brown and grey are associated with being grounded, passing and other depressing (or not) things, yellow used to be a color reserved for imperial family.
Automatons attacking us on the space station may reference archons.
Not archons we know from Genshin Impact, but creatures described in Pistis Sophia. Wicked, annoying, and doing everything in their power to slow us down. In the book they're not destroyed completely, and so we'll see more of them in game.
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FNAF SPOILERS! SCROLL! TALKING ABOUT THE SPRINGLOCK SCENE!
i’ve seen so many people discussing the springlock scene in both negative and positive ways and i think it brings up really cool points about how matthew played that scene and balanced fan expectations with his own characterisation.
i think the discussions around this movie have rlly exposed the disconnect between fanon and canon in fnaf, especially talking abt the core games in isolation, bc frankly in the game universe (ignoring the books) we get Very Little characterisation for William other than the obvious, but Matthew managed to add so much in the way he talks and his body language.
in the reveal scene, we see afton at arguably his peak. in his first scene, he comes off as somewhat demeaning and judgemental until he recognises mike’s name, at which point he seems to have this nervous energy, rushing to cover it up but stumbling slightly, his reaction to the tables being turned even slightly is massive.
this is a man who committed multiple mrdrs in essentially broad daylight, hid the bodies in the most obvious place, and still got away with it, and then kept the crime scene as a trophy of his actions, and an ongoing prison sentence for his victims. he has been in complete control for decades, and is confident that he can deal with any kind of threat quickly. his confidence in his reveal is palpable
it changes when vanessa shoots him. the whole parallel with vanessa and the animatronics is hugely interesting too- how william refers to the animatronics almost endearingly as “kids” when he wants them to obey, how both vanny and the animatronics have an unearned loyalty to him, almost a pseudo-adoption through what he did to them, taking them from their parents and keeping them under his thumb, forever stuck as naive, forgiving, obedient children. vanessa breaking from that control shakes him, but the mask slips back into place almost immediately.
then, he’s outsmarted by the brother of one of his victims, and the child he planned to end next. his pseudo-children turn on him and he can no longer manipulate his appearance or shed his skin to escape. he explodes on them, and his language is incredibly telling that he is being dishonest.
he calls them small, trying to belittle them into submission, even though they are ten feet tall metal animatronics powered by rage. he is grasping at straws to regain control, and failing miserably.
finally, the springlocks go off. the locks in the movie look more like a ribcage, so the first two likely puncture his lungs. they’re slow, and painful, but he doesn’t scream or beg or sob. he grunts and groans, gritting his teeth and only letting out sounds of pain that sound almost involuntary. there is no way in hell he would visibly let himself show weakness or pain in front of these creatures that he believes he has control over. he isn’t brought to his knees until there are eight metal spikes embedded in his abdomen. he doesn’t let the mask fall for even a second, until he literally PUTS THE ACTUAL MASK ON and finally collapses. even then, he’s fighting for consciousness, twitching and writhing with no control over his body. william afton thrives on control, and his soul will not rest until he gets it back.
it’s why he keeps the pizzeria- he always comes back. he can’t help but return to the scene of the crime, putting on his old costume, continuing his killings. he revels in being a constant threat on the horizon. and now, he knows he is going to die, and he knows the suit will bring him back, and noone will be able to get rid of him then. so he puts the mask back on, and waits.
in terms of the sfx- they’re pretty accurate. with stab wounds, you need to leave the knife in the wound as long as possible for best chance of survival, as it stops the blood from escaping. in terms of the springlocks, there wouldn’t be copious amounts of blood as the locks are keeping the wounds filled- which is good because it means a slower, more painful death.
#fnaf#fnaf movie#eden rambles#william afton#matthew lillard#springtrap#five nights at freddy's#fnaf spoilers#idk i thought it was a great scene#ppl just need to manage their expectations of what fnaf 1 Actually Is in isolation#not the years of other media and fandom and lore and theory#we literally saw him get springlocked one time in 8 bit with no audio and four frames. how is this worse in comparison#wanna make another post talking abt how the film explores images vs the reality when you look deeper#specifically abby and her drawings/the drawings at freddys vs mike’s motivation being based on the images he sees in his dreams#and how it’s so perfect for fnaf 1 being a game almost entirely made of just scary images without actually exploring the reality#that these robots are Children and Scared and Lost#tldr the fort scene was necessary
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