#liz talks endgame
Note
A teen!dad jess. He has a best friend from New York (she can have a name or it can be Y/N, you can choose) (they are endgame, jess never had feelings for Rory but she has feelings for Jess, it won't go anywhere) Jess and his best friend have a kid, they co-parent (whether they are dating already or in the future is up to you) Jess gets sent to Stars Hallow, she ends up moving to stars Hallow to, to be close to Jess and so their kid can be with him too (she is emancipated, plus Jess knows she's coming because they keep in contact) if anyone reading this would like to turn this into an actual story, I'm totally down for reading it :) if you choose this request, I look forward to reading it. Thank you!!
↯ 𝐂𝐀𝐍 𝐈 𝐆𝐎 𝐖𝐇𝐄𝐑𝐄 𝐘𝐎𝐔 𝐆𝐎?
pairings — teen dad! jess mariano x y/n
warnings — none!! (unedited tho so…)
word count — 2.9k
a/n — i’m not the biggest fan of how this turned out (feels lowk out of character even tho i typically write jess best bc i am him), but i LOVEDDDD this plot. i plan on making a part two if that’s something you guys would want!! also dad! jess is my fav (as you guys know) so to have him be bowie’s dad??? FUCKING LOVEEE.
BEING SENT TO STARS HOLLOW was worse than one would imagine. especially for jess mariano, a kid who'd been taken from his hometown and placed in a small apartment above a diner with an uncle he hardly knows. this would be enough to drive one mad, one could presume. but to make matters worse, he was leaving behind his son.
the moment liz danes found out her sixteen year old son had gotten a girl pregnant, she freaked out. as any mother would do. but liz wasn't just any mother, she was (to put it lightly) a whack-job. so she spiraled when she figured this one out. what happened when liz danes spiraled you may ask? who was there for her? her sane big brother, luke.
the practical idea seemed to be sending jess to the quaint down of stars hollow. a place where liz grew up, where she knew luke would keep an eye on him. where she also knew he couldn't cause any havoc. and his world wouldn't become corrupt like hers, being a teen parent.
the months of the pregnancy was difficult to be away. y/n was just a girl he'd met at a party, he was sick and tired of his mother's new boyfriend's hurtful words. y/n was going through something similar and they decided they'd lean on one another one night. until three weeks later when she called jess asking him to coffee, and surprising him with something much more. y/n was scared, as any pregnant sixteen year old would be. being without jess didn't help her case.
the teenage boy didn't let the separation get to them however. his nights sneaking out were spent at a phone booth in the middle of town, talking to y/n about everything and anything. his breaks at the diner were calling to ask about doctors appointments. sure, she had just been a girl he'd met at a party. but the emotional bond of a baby knitted the two together. they were scared kids, they had no one but one another. so they became much more than kids who once went to a party. they were friends.
when y/n went into labor, jess ran out of school like his life depended on it. hoping into his car and speeding back to new york. luckily making it so he could see his son born just in time. his first time meeting his son was only his fourth time seeing y/n. the fourth of many, many visits. stars hollow became less and less entertaining to him as time went on. especially after coming back almost two weeks after his son was born. the pranks, the stealing, the teasing around with this girl rory... it wasn't anything to him. he missed his son, he missed the woman who had his son. jess mariano wanted to be with his family. because for the first time in his life, he had a family. someone loved him, and he loved someone.
"1984 is the most overrated 'classic' book i've ever read," rory gilmore smiled at jess with a teasing look. now, almost a year after his son's birth, jess mariano was nearing eighteen. his adolescence was coming to an end (although it did when the stick turned pink). the toying around was still very much in his nature. hence the conversation with the good girl in a pink sweater.
"nu uh, it's a classic. you can't just hate on 1984," jess counters while standing behind the diner's countertop. the diner was slow, despite it being around the early afternoon and a sunday. which is why two teenagers were sharing false opinions like it was bible. he didn't like her — he was sure of that. ever since bowie mariano was born (guess who named him), jess's feelings had become aware. the love he felt for his son was prominent in his everyday life. unlike anything he'd ever felt before. it was hard for him to even imagine ever having feelings for someone. not when being a dad was his number one priority.
"you're just saying that," rory laughed at his words once more. her late night talks with her mother about jess seeming to not be recalled. the ones where lorelai stressed to rory what jess was going through as a teen parent, something she knew all too well. especially being away from his kid. in her eyes, he was a christopher who'd left his rory. lorelai didn't exactly want her daughter involved with that. but it was hard to resist when he kept giving rory that james dean look. matched with the leather jacket and the book references.
"when are you going to see bowie?" lorelai asked the teenage boy, attempting to remind her daughter of his priorities. jess didn't see this as a question with ulterior motives. he knew lorelai had a deep understanding of him, whether she'd like to admit it or not. "soon, hopefully."
"is y/n liking her new place?" luke questions genuinely from lorelai's side, being reminded of jess's child's mother who he'd grown fond of. "it's kinda hard to like a place where you're crashing on your friend's sofa bed." jess scoffs, being reminded of his friend's condition. when y/n had first gotten pregnant, jess was aware of the darkness in her home. especially when she freaked out to him one night. the first time they opened up to one another. she was too scared to tell her dad about the baby, knowing he'd hurt her.
less than two years later, y/n was emancipated. working a part-time job in the city. where her friends helped watch bowie when necessary. along with (hesitantly) liz, whenever jess made sure she was sober and had an okay boyfriend. it was a lonely life: just like jess's.
"that poor girl," lorelai commented with a sympathetic look making jess's stomach twist. he hated thinking about the living conditions of his family, he hated thinking of being apart from them. but when he did, he couldn't stop. which is why that night, when luke came upstairs to the apartment after closing, jess stopped him to have a serious conversation. "can i talk to you?"
luke searched his nephew's face for sincerity once he heard those words. curious if this was gonna be a 'steely dan sucks' conversation or an actual serious one. a rare option for the teenage boy. "yeah, what's up?"
there was a deep expression anguished on jess's face as he sat at the table. he was clearly unsure how to put his words, which was prominent in his eyes. "i... i can't be away from bowie anymore. i can't let y/n live in that shithole. they're my responsibility."
luke heard his nephew's words clearly. he agreed with every word, a sigh erupting when he processed the stress his teenage nephew was experiencing over this. "where are you going with this, jess?" the diner owner questioned with a calm tone. he still wanted the best for his nephew. he still wanted him to finish high school and start a worthy life. one he didn't want to be started by running off to new york and working to provide for his family. "i need to be with them one way or another. i can't be away from bowie, i can't do that to my kid. i can't be my dad."
"you're not, kid. you're nothing like jimmy, i'm telling you that right now. you would do anything to be with bowie and that proves you're better than him," luke explained before letting out a sigh and nodding his head. "you're a good guy, jess."
a conversation continued throughout the night until the two finally came to a conclusion. or at least luke did. taking matters into his own hands, he picked up the phone once his nephew hit the pillow. a hushed tone rushing into verses of explanations until it all made sense.
the next morning, jess mariano woke up like any other day. not too long after he woke up he went down to the diner to get started on work. his thanksgiving break had begun, so his monday would be spent annotating a new book for his son in between rush hours. it was when two familiar faces entered the diner that he hardly glanced up, noticing the gilmores immediately. "hey jess, how's it going?"
"well, i'm not bleeding or anything so..." jess shrugged towards the woman while he scribbled in a final note for an older bowie. rory kept her eyes on him while luke handed the two mugs of coffee. he had something in his head, especially when he kept glancing out the window every few seconds. "that's good," lorelai nodded before turning to luke.
"what are you reading now? more jane austen?" rory teased while eyeing the boy and taking a sip of her warm coffee. his eyes didn't dare look up from her while he shut the book, "uh huh." he nodded with a thin lipped smile. rory noticed the children's book in his hands and grinned, "didn't know you were that behind. that makes sense with your book taste though."
"this is bowie's, i'm just writing some stuff in the margins for him for when he learns to read," jess shrugged without noticing the sudden change in demeanor when he mentioned his son. the baby had never been to stars hollow. jess also rarely brought up his son to anyone, especially stars hollow-ers. miss patty and babette already whispered about the rebellion enough as it was. he didn't need to add to it by opening up to people who didn't care about him. "oh... that's sweet," rory forced a smile before sinking down into her seat. she felt shorter.
jess picked up the coffee to begin to refill a few cups throughout the diner. his stance was interrupted once the diner phone began to ring, luke noticed this quickly. it wasn't long before he grabbed the coffee from jess's hand and hardly offered to do refills for him instead. jess knew luke was up to something but hesitantly took the phone call, "luke's."
"nice greeting," a voice echoed on the other side making jess's infamous smirk spread across his face. y/n. "well, i thought i'd ask you to marry me. but i was worried our meat supplier was on the other line," jess teased into the phone while his hand went in his pocket. he subconsciously turned around so his back was to the rest of the diner. wanting to be alone with y/n, as if that was possible through this.
"thought so," y/n hummed with an obvious smile. "hey, bowie's missing his dad."
"is bowie's mom also missing bowie's dad?" jess asked with his typical teasing tone towards his friend. "bowie's mom may be. but she doesn't exactly want to give him the satisfaction of that. bowie's dad is very cocky," y/n says through the phone while luke spots something through the window and smiles.
the sound of the bell was a familiar one. reminding the people in the diner that someone had arrived. jess was so used to it now that he didn't bat an eye typically, but this time he glanced around his shoulder for a moment. his eyes glancing back at the figure stood infront of the door. jess's brown eyes locked on them for a second as he dropped the wired phone and bolted past the counter to them.
stood before his eyes was y/n and bowie. the eleven month old was in her arms with a pacifier between his lips. y/n wore a smile while she placed her phone in her pocket with a free hand. she was engulfed in jess's scent immediately as he threw the two into his arms. cigarettes, cheap cologne, and coffee erupting comfortably into her. "hey, watch out i have a baby."
jess ignored her words, but lightened his grip on her while taking bowie out of her arms to hold him. "bowie, hey..." his voice trailed off as he held onto his son. he was interrupted with emotion by being with his son once again. because as much as fatherhood was something he never wished upon himself, ever desired whatsoever, it had turned into the best thing that ever happened to him.
"hi kid," luke greeted the teenage girl while walking over to give her a side hug. he turned his attention towards jess who was hugging his baby with a grin he hadn't seen in awhile. "i thought about our talk last night, jess. you were right."
jess glanced over at his uncle before looking back at y/n with a smile. which shocked even him, because a smile was not something he'd done while being in stars hollow. "so..." luke's voice trailed off while he gave the floor to y/n. who took it and looked at jess, "i think bowie needs to be with his dad... and his mom."
the group shared a few looks, mixed with confusion and happiness. "i asked lorelai for a favor, y/n and bowie are gonna stay at the inn for a few weeks. until you guys can figure out a place." luke started with a nod. "you're gonna be eighteen in a few months, you're gonna graduate in a few months. i want you to do that, jess. so, i brought you some courage... as cheesy as that sounds."
jess looked between the two for a moment before sharing a nod with his uncle, as if a thank you in their own language.
"hey, i'm lorelai. it's nice to meet you i've heard so much about you. we seem to have a lot in common," lorelai interjected as she walked over and introduced herself to y/n. y/n knew her fair share of scoop of the town. her daily phone calls to jess were hardly just baby talk. she'd spent a lot of them telling him to go out with lorelai's daughter, who seemed good for him. but every-time... something was holding him back. "yeah you too, i'm y/n. thank you for everything, by the way. you really didn't have to let me."
"c'mon we're moms, we help eachother out. we can be like desperate housewives. but with no men," lorelai smiled while giving y/n's hand a squeeze. "oh! this is my bowie, rory."
"hey," y/n greeted with an awkward wave towards the other teenage girl who still seemed in shock by the situation. she forced a smile and waved, "hey."
the dispute was a lot more awkward than y/n could have hoped. but a sense of envy had taken over the both of them as they reflected on past or current relations with jess. an awkwardness that washed away quickly when y/n’s eyes locked back on jess and her son. a favorite sight of hers.
“c’mon,” jess nodded towards y/n while she took the baby out of his arms. he grabbed her bag and placed a free hand on her back, mumbling goodbyes before exiting the diner with his two. the three took the scenic tour towards the inn. bowie cracking a million smiles at the tons of birds in sight. the two teenagers reciprocating the action with shared giggles at the baby’s happiness.
the moment they entered the room, jess sat down with bowie to let y/n unpack a little bit. while the two caught up on unspoken things. “so… that was rory,” y/n says suggestively while unpacking her toiletries in the bathroom. jess was sprawled out on the bed with bowie in his arms, playing superman. he turned to her once she erupted from the bathroom and took a seat beside him. “that was rory.”
“she’s pretty,” y/n nodded with a small smile. in an attempt to be polite about jess’s possible love interest, yet he seemed hardly interested when bowie was around. “i guess,” jess shrugged before holding bowie back up in his arms. “have you asked her out yet?”
“i’m not too focused on that,” jess answered while clearly wanting the conversation to be done. y/n only smiled at the sight of the baby, gently rubbing his back. jess’s eyes locked onto her once more. watching her look at bowie with all the love made his eyes gleam. the way her smile spread with love, only made his heart beat faster happily. “thanks.”
y/n glanced over to him at his word, furrowing her eyebrows gently while she looked into his eyes. “for what?”
“for being here, i guess.” he mumbles while turning back to face bowie and bring him closer to him, the baby resting his head on jess’s chest. y/n smiled at the sight while leaning into the pillow, happily watching the two. “of course.”
so, the two laid back into the bed. smiling at the sight of their baby falling into a comforting sleep. followed by y/n minutes later, at a moment of peace. finally having someone she trusted with her baby so she could peacefully have a break. jess shut his eyes to the sound of the light breaths of both his favorite people. never having felt something so perfect once again in his life.
#teddypickerry#gilmore girls#jess mariano x reader#lorelai gilmore#jess mariano#rory gilmore#jess mariano x y/n#luke danes#dad jessmariano#dad jess mariano series#teen dad jess mariano#jess mariano x fem reader
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Timeless, Hollywoodland, and The Philadelphia Story
I found this old meta I’ve had in my Google docs for years but I don’t believe I’ve ever posted anything about it, since I originally intended to use the idea in a fic. Since that isn’t happening, even though it’s been years and I doubt anyone is out here writing or reading Timeless meta anymore, here you go. Obviously spoilers for both.
Most Garcy fans will groan if I suggest we take a look at Hollywoodland, but considering a certain admittedly fantastic dress:
…and a certain cut scene involving a pool, it’s interesting to consider through the lens of The Philadelphia Story, of which the dress and pool scene are iconic elements. Here is a still from the movie:
Look familiar? This is also poolside.
The Philadelphia Story revolves around Tracy Lord (Katherine Hepburn), a wealthy socialite who is preparing to marry her fiance, George (who matters as little as Lucy’s quirk-of-the-timeline-fiancé Noah in Timeless but manages to be far less likable) in a matter of days. The head of Spy Magazine assigns Macaulay Connor (Jimmy Stewart, oddly nicknamed “Mike”) and his photographer, Liz, to go to the wedding and get the story posing as friends of her expatriate brother, with an actual friend of his as their in: C.K. Dexter Haven (Cary Grant). Dexter also happens to be Tracy’s first husband. They divorced years prior due to his alcoholism—including a nasty incident of him shoving her down—and her criticism of him. Dexter originally seems to be doing this out of spite, but we quickly learn it’s actually to keep the magazine from releasing a bigger scoop about Tracy’s father’s affair and estrangement from her mother, which have devastated Tracy. The rest of the film is about Tracy’s entanglement with all these men.
(Sidenote: there are some very old-fashioned diatribes and comments about the nature of women and marriage and the shoving I found very hard to overlook, but that’s not the point of this post. Just heads up if you do ever watch it.)
On the eve of Tracy’s wedding to George, she dons The Dress to attend a ball in their honor. She gets drunk for only the second time in her life, and she and a similarly drunk Mike spend time together. They mainly talk drunk nonsense, drive drunk, and Mike sings Over the Rainbow. They have a grand time, end up kissing, and jump in the pool for a midnight swim.
Similarly, in Hollywoodland, Lucy and Wyatt share a sweet poolside conversation while she wears The Dress to a Hedy Lamarr party, they kiss, and they would have jumped in the pool if not for wildfire filming issues. They spend the night together, scar Rufus the next morning, then head back to the present. Wyatt soon receives a text from his supposedly dead wife. He takes off, without telling anyone why, and Wyatt spends the rest of the season trying to win back Jessica permanently while still having feelings for Lucy. In the “movie” (reminder: Christmas isn’t canon), Jessica is a pure evil Rittenhouse operative who lied about being pregnant, is killed, and Lucy and Wyatt are hastily shoved back together without fixing the issues between them on-screen. TPTB have claimed that their pairing was always endgame and the reunion would have happened anyway–albeit less swiftly and unrealistically–but they were Made For Each Other, loved each other all along, blah blah blah.
Which brings us back to The Philadelphia Story. The scene at the pool between Tracy and Mike is iconic for a reason. Mike is very “eat the rich” and she calls him out for being an intellectual snob, he tells her she’s wonderful and that the other men didn’t know what they were talking about, and their kiss is incredibly cinematic. It’s truly romantic…
In the moment.
For that moment, that one night, the audience can root for this couple. Mike is saying what Tracy needs to hear, and she’s enjoying letting herself fail by getting drunk and doing the unexpected. It’s sweet.
But it isn’t the endgame. No one means it to be.
After the multiple confrontations that arise out of the pool situation, Tracy breaks off with George just before the wedding. Mike asks Tracy to marry him and she turns him down. Liz loves him, and while he and Tracy like each other as friends, they would both be unhappy long-term. They live very different lives and have different values. And they’re not actually in love.
I don’t honestly believe this was intentional as foreshadowing that Lyatt may not be endgame so much as Abigail Spencer really wanting to wear The Dress. But even as a subconscious accidental parallel, it’s decent. Mike is nice and he and Tracy get along fairly well, but he’s better suited to Liz, who has stood by and loved him for years while waiting for him to mature enough for forever with her. Tracy, having realized that she doesn’t want the picture-perfect (on the outside) life she envisioned—and having seen that Dexter, now sober and much changed, is not the man he was when he hurt her—she forgives Dexter for the pain of their past. He lets go of it all as well and they remarry, this time making it down the aisle rather than eloping as they did before.
And as a book I adore (Love Walked In by Marisa de los Santos) says: “Jimmy Stewart is always and indisputably the best man in the world, unless Cary Grant should happen to show up.”
#timeless#garcy#lucy preston#garcia flynn#wyatt logan#anti-lyatt#the philadelphia story#timeless meta#long post#boy is it#christmas isn’t canon
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I was thinking lately about the ret-conning in AYITL and how out of all the stuff we see that doesn't feel right, it's the ret-conning of Christopher and Rory's relationship that feels the most wrong.
To be truthful, there's quite a bit of revisionist history going on in AYITL because ASP is putting her preferred opinions in the mouthpieces of the characters. Dean was the perfect boyfriend and Rory was actually too immature for HIM! (lol). Luke and Lorelai never discussed kids at any point in their relationship, nor did Lorelai even think about it! (I guess ASP was as traumatized by season 6 as the rest of us and forgot a lot of those conversations). Logan has never even thought about not working for his father and making his own decisions as an adult! (Honestly, there's the seeds of a good story there about the recession and it makes Logan look a lot less pathetic if he HAD to start over, but ASP is more interested in how rich he is to talk about it). Oh, and Rory is an aimless, jobless, rootless commitphobe who's seemingly content to be tied to no one and nothing, but is just sad that this peripatetic phase is ending? (Sooooo out of character. OS Rory would HATE this life).
However, let's put all that aside and talk about the Rory/Christopher scene. I didn't mind it at the time because I was afraid ASP would use the revival to write the Lorelai/Christopher storyline she always wanted and wouldn't care that it was done without her. I just wanted the guy to be ignored or to sit in his corner and not bother anybody and he at least did the latter so....yay? However, putting Lorelai aside it really does a disservice to Rory that Christopher claims that he wasn't allowed to help raise Rory because he "wasn't consulted" and that it was no use fighting Lorelai because she had already made up her mind and she wasn't going to let anyone get between her and Rory. Rory doesn't question him on this, but only asks why he didn't fight Lorelai on her supposedly unreasonable decision to exclude him.
Look, I guess he's bitter that Lorelai loved Luke instead of him. Maybe he's just a petty man child and has chosen to rewrite the story in his own head that it was all Lorelai's fault and he was helpless to do anything about it. But that is not the story the OS told, and it was repeatedly affirmed by Lorelai, Christopher, and Rory that he had every opportunity to participate in Rory's childhood ON HIS OWN and for the most part he chose not to because unless Lorelai was willing to be in a relationship with him, he wasn't going to bother. Lorelai didn't keep Christopher away. CHRISTOPHER kept Christopher away. Rory was always a consolation prize and he didn't want her if she was all he got.
And Rory's not allowed to question his version of events, because she's never allowed to be angry at him, to hold a grudge, to resent him for all of the things he didn't do for her, or even for at this late stage his belief that she forced him to stay away because she wanted Rory all to herself. No one is ever allowed to question Christopher or blame him for his own behavior. Compare this to how Lorelai is allowed to rage at her parents, Logan at Mitchum, Lane at Mrs. Kim, Jess at Luke or Liz. Rory's not allowed to be mad. Even when she is angry for a few months, it's a phase Lorelai hopes she'll get over because (again) she never kept Rory away from her dad or wanted them to be at odds.
Why? Because Christopher is ASP's favorite. She's perfectly happy to let him rewrite history so that Lorelai is solely responsible for Rory not having her dad around, especially if it points to her preferred endgame, which is Rory becoming a single mother just like Lorelai, raising her child with limited participation from her rich, weak-willed baby daddy, and eventually marrying the surrogate dad with gigantic arm muscles who remains involved in their lives.
I do recognize the difference between a character's opinion and the actual reality of the events as they happened in canon, but given the level of ret-conning that we already see in AYITL and the fact that the writing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer most of the time, I do think we're actually supposed to believe that Lorelai kept Christopher away. And it kind of sucks, because the story should be centered on Rory and her pregnancy dilemma, but instead it's about Christopher the man-child and how sad he is. Pathetic.
#more ranty rants from frazzled#meta#gilmore girls#rory gilmore#anti christopher hayden#i will note that asp didn't have to retcon anything for jess because he was happily living his own life not in stars hollow#with some residual spicy stepcousin feelings#he just wears sluttier shirts while doing this in ayitl
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A wedding, an engagement and a journey to another planet — fans got all that and more in the series finale of “Roswell, New Mexico” on Monday night. And according to showrunner Chris Hollier, a lot of the night’s events were always the plan for the pod squad — except maybe Malex’s wedding.
Don’t worry, Michael Guerin (Michael Vlamis) and Alex Manes (Tyler Blackburn) were always meant for each other. Even Blackburn told TheWrap he’d have been “pissed” if the men didn’t get the ending they deserved. And indeed, Hollier told TheWrap this week that the “Roswell” writers “always knew there was a happy ending” for the pairing.
“We’d always talked about, like, the fact that we were starting Season 4 with a proposal, we expected people would have a wedding,” Hollier explained. “So how can we surprise them with what that wedding would be? And the answer was, that it wasn’t even Max and Liz’s.”
Indeed, Max (Nathan Parsons) and Liz (Jeanine Mason) weren’t married by the end of the night — but they were engaged. Unfortunately, Max Evans had the weight of a literal world on his shoulders and felt he had to return to Oasis to save it. But, with a wholehearted “Hell yes” to Liz’s proposal re-do, Max promised to return eventually and marry her.
As it turns out, their separation was one of those things that were always in the cards too.
“The idea of [Max and Liz] getting engaged and separating was the final theme, even if we were going to come back,” Hollier revealed.
But, when “Roswell, New Mexico” didn’t score a fifth season on The CW, plans changed a bit. You can learn more about all those plans, plus how the writers room finally decided on what to do for the series finale, in TheWrap’s full interview with Chris Hollier below.
Note: This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
What I personally loved about this final season, was that the pod squad was always working together, firing on all cylinders. But then in this finale, everyone’s kind of going their own ways and doing their own things. How did you all arrive there for a series finale?
Well, that decision was twofold. We made the decision to stop the plot early, and let people — especially once we really started to feel that this might be the end, we wanted to let people celebrate, and enjoy, spend time with the characters that they love. But we also were hopeful that we were going to get to Season 5. So we were doing what we’re doing intentionally to give story threads to pick up. Let a little time pass, let people live a little, and bring everyone back together for one last hurrah.
So at what point did the story of this finale become the plan? If you were anticipating that Season 5, was this at the beginning of Season 4, you knew that this was how it was going to go? Or was it a mid-season decision?
So this ending actually was always the ending. This was the ending that we were going to do for this season. There was one little beat afterward and a little bit of a threat, in jeopardy. But the idea of [Max and Liz] getting engaged and separating was the final theme, even if we were going to come back. We just we augmented different lines, we shot a couple different lines and the different versions of things, just to sort of help us as we dialed in, just in case.
Well, let’s talk about the wedding that did happen. We did get a Malex wedding. So at what point did you know this was the endgame for them for sure?
We always knew there was a happy ending. We’d always talked about, like, the fact that we were starting with a Season 4 with a proposal, we expected people would have a wedding. So how can we surprise them with what that wedding would be? And the answer was, that it wasn’t even Max and Liz’s, was where we got. We knew that we were gonna get them engaged, but the actual wedding part was like a midway through [decision].
We started talking about taking it further than a proposal and getting them married. And then once that happened, then, you know, all the scenes — like, for weeks and weeks and weeks, people would write down or hand me like, ‘What if we have this moment? What if we have this moment?’ So we just collected a lot of those moments. In fact, we had too many to write story about that. That’s part of the reason why we ended up with a montage.
I was going to ask!
Yeah! It was like, ‘We could set it to this.’ And we can kind of give a little snapshots of a lot of great ideas that everyone had.
Were there ideas then of what Michael and Alex’s actual vows would’ve been?
I don’t know if we did. We always are looking for like, what’s the unexpected moment? And they’ve had a lot of time to say a lot of things to each other. And so what we almost did is treated that moment of proposal as the moment of like, “I’m going to tell you some stuff.” You know, we decided to put it there and let it live more in a feeling.
Tell me about the decision then to have Alex take Michael’s last name. He doesn’t want to be a Manes man anymore. It’s a very, very powerful moment.
It was born out of just thinking about all the whole four seasons and how important that idea was, and how we played with [it] like, we’ve used it as clues, we’ve used it as trauma, we’ve used it as like all sorts of things on our show. So I wanted to play with it one last time. It was actually born out of some jokes we were having in the writers’ room about kids, and you see part of that exchange.
So again, it was really about taking all four years and distilling it down and twisting that idea one more time, but twisting it for like, hopefulness and love. He’s a character that’s grown, and understood himself so much better. And he’s cut away the things that don’t work for him. And I think in that moment, he realized “This one last little piece doesn’t work for me. I’ll try something new.”
So, on top of Malex, you and your team really had a lot of love stories to wrap up in this finale. And obviously, an hour is not a lot of time to tie off six or more different storylines. So what was the most important goal in everyone’s minds as you were crafting this series finale?
I think the most important thing was to talk about — just start with the core three aliens, and really ask yourself, where did they start at the beginning of their journey? They were lost, scared kids that had no one to love them. So we started there. And they all have someone that they get to engage in love with there.
And then we started looking down and started seeing what else we did. We loved Heather and Quentin, who play Dallas and Maria, and they had so much chemistry and they’re also part of the pod squad. So it was like, how can we leave anybody out finding some love? Even if we’re gonna twist it around some? We knew that we all wanted some version of love for everybody. And we wanted to make sure they were all slightly different. And that’s sort of how we started to paint where everyone landed.
I loved the scene with Max, Michael and Isobel, where they do have that group hug, and Max hands off the badge. I have to imagine that was a very emotional moment to write, and to film.
There was a lot of moments, when we were filming them, that we didn’t actually know that they would be the last little moments. But in the back of our minds, and as we put these up, you know, we talked about “Just in case this is the last moment let’s bring that to this scene.” They crushed it.
I also have to ask about bringing Shiri Appleby back, and bookending her journey with “Roswell.” I particularly loved to see her grab the antennae. How did you arrive there, deciding to cap her journey with the original and the new show in the diner with the newest Liz?
I mean, obviously, Shiri’s the original Liz. She’s awesome. And like I was saying, we actually shot the scenes early. We shot them when she came to do episode nine. So we actually didn’t know every piece of how the story would connect. And we actually tried a lot of alt lines occasionally, to help us funnel the story around her.
Ultimately, where we dialed into was a couple of things, which is, what do we think the fans would want to see? Which were: what would be fun ways to marry the new show and the old show back together? And to me, one of the highlights actually of the whole series, was Liz and Liz essentially sharing a drink in the Crashdown Cafe. So we always knew like, if we’re gonna her, where we have to put them there.
You could feel it on the day shooting, that there was something special happening.
Well Chris, as we wrap up our time here and with “Roswell, New Mexico,” what would be your parting words to the fans of the series?
I would say be open to what the universe might bring you. That staying open is the best way to learn and to find love and to find new aspects about yourself. That’s what I would say. And I hope they enjoyed it as much as I did making it.
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NBC The Blacklist - The showrunners confirm they've always known the endgame - Jon Bokenkamp.
“When you know ultimately why he chose her, and why he decided to give us these cases, I think the story is ultimately over. But we will answer that, and we will get there, and we do have an answer that we’re working towards.” - Bokenkamp, Tv Insider
“The truth is that, once we know who Reddington is, and we know why he entered Liz’s life, then the story is over. Only then, is the story told.” - Bokencamp, Collider
Daniel Knauf: On the Blacklist, we are making up a lot of things as we go along but not the main thing. The core - the heart and soul of that show is the relationship between Red and Liz. Their trajectory has not changed one iota. It’s solid as a slot-car track.
Zee Hatley: Re: S5 Finale:
"My favorite line from the pilot paid off last night. Follow the breadcrumbs… " #TheBlacklistReveal
Daniel Cerone: The pieces will fit, but it’s a series journey with twists and turns. We know the end game.
BOKENKAMP: We did not pitch what the entire plan was to the network, but we have always had an endgame in mind. I come from writing features, and it’s hard to sit down and write a movie and just start on page one and go, “Well, we’ll see where we end.” It’s like a math problem. You have to know what you’re working toward. We have always had that bible in our heads, which makes it very difficult, at times, to write the show.
Jon Bokenkamp: “Obviously, we side-step and we improvise at times, but the deep core of the mythology of the show and who Reddington is, and all those big questions, are rooted in the inception of the show.”
Jon Bokenkamp: - along the way there are benchmark truths that we like to land on that are canon that might sound like they’re adrift or can be open to interpretation - and oftentimes they can be, and they should be. But that’s part of what’s fun about the show is trying to keep up with the mythology and unlock it. Ultimately I’m really proud, if you look back at the last six seasons that we’ve done, it adds up in a very clear way. We work very hard to do that.
Did you know from the beginning that James Spader’s character wasn’t really Reddington?
Jon Bokenkamp: Since day one. It’s almost impossible to not know the ending before you begin or at least a really strong sense of it. “it is something that we’ve been playing from the beginning, and James has been playing from the beginning that we’ve been working towards.”
This turn goes all the way back. It is something that we've talked about since the show was picked up [in 2013]," Bokenkamp tells ET of the game-changing revelation.
ET: What hints from the early seasons can you call out as clues that the Raymond Reddington we've gotten to know the past several years was an impostor?
Jon Bokenkamp: There are a number of them. In season one, Liz flat out asked Reddington over the payphone, "Are you my father?" and after a long pause, he said, "No." That is true and true since the beginning of the show. Now, Raymond Reddington is her father but this man is not the original Raymond Reddington. That's an example of how we have feathered storylines to point us toward this reveal. There are moments like that in each of the five seasons.
Jon Bokenkamp: The Imposter Theory can be traced all the way back to the first time Reddington met Elizabeth Keen and told her: 'I'm a criminal, criminals are notorious liars. Everything about me is a lie.'"
This trail of breadcrumbs has been five years in the making.
Jon Bokenkamp: It’s something we’ve talked about daily on the show. If we didn’t have a very clear answer to what we were doing, it would be very difficult. I hope now that people can look back at the five years of clues that have pointed us toward this and realize that this isn’t something we’re just pulling out of our pocket
How surprising is the reveal of Reddington’s true identity?
On a scale of one to 10, it would have to be an 11.
Eisendrath: We started the show seven years ago with one story that we knew we wanted to tell and we’re very happy about the fact that we’ve been given the chance to tell it over all these years,
Eisendrath: The audience, while wanting to know ultimately the truth, won’t get impatient—but will be given enough to enjoy the riddle of what the ultimate truth is.
Eisendrath: Just because we give the answer to one of the early questions that we deposit in the pilot, does not mean that there won’t be others that come from it. So, yes, we will answer some of the questions from the pilot, but those will just spin off other questions.
Eisendrath: We had an idea of what the story was from the beginning, and we haven’t really veered from it at all. That’s part of why, every year, we’ve been able to give genuine, legitimate answers that the audience has been able to enjoy.
The show has many mysteries and unanswered questions - for instance, what Red whispered to Kirk. Should fans expect all of them to be answered?
James Spader: There’s an intention from the writers, creators and mine to bring the audience with us during this journey and keep them until the end. And at the end the audience will be able to go back to the first episode and watch it all again and notice it all makes sense since the beginning.
James Spader: It may come as a surprise, but the truth is, that the directions that we’ve taken and the decisions that we’ve made in terms of the show are not arbitrary. They’re not. “- there has been a plan.”
James Spader: If it’s done the way we intend, once we reach the inevitable end of the series, you’ll look back and you’ll realize that there were things you found out along the way that you weren’t sure how to process and all of a sudden those things will connect.
Anthony Pepe: No doubt. It’s not even a question. We have given you the answers from practically the first episode. How much more do we have to force feed it? It’s Katarina Rostova. I mean it’s not even a question… - for lack of a better term I got that straight from the horses mouth. James told me himself, if you watch the show from the beginning, everything is right there. Now that you know what you know.
Lukas Reiter: One of the things that’s really special about this series is, unlike shows where you’re finding it as you go, we’ve always had that sequence and we’ve always known the central truth at the center of the series. And so it is pretty cool as a writer to be working on the same story for this amount of time cause I don’t think you see that that often.
#jon bokenkamp#john eisdendrath#zee hatley#james spader#lukas reiter#anthony pepe#daniel cerone#daniel knauf#redarina#redarina evidence#redarina discussions
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don’t talk to me about canon relationships, cause I’m sitting over here with a chart connecting that time Alex told Michael they were family in season one to that time Liz told Kyle he was like family clearly drawing a line in the sand that they weren’t actually related to Maria saying Dallas was becoming a big part of her family
and like, obviously that means kaliz was endgame, kaliz was canon, ya da ya da
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Almost... Almost... Almost... Almost... Almost... Finally - chapter 6: And in the End... (I finally went for it)
Work summary: The five times Luke almost asked Penelope out and the one time he finally did
Chapter summary: Luke finally asks Penelope out at her going-away party.
Total word count: 6620
Chapter word count 2150
Can also be read here on Ao3
The night before, Luke had asked Emily what she was going to do to celebrate now that the Everett Lynch case was finally over. It had been a long year for all of them, but he knew it had been especially hard on his boss and friend, and she deserved to unwind from it. She had told him that she, Penelope, JJ, and Tara were all doing a Girls'Night In. It had been too long, apparently, and god knows they deserved it after all that.
If Luke knew the ladies he worked with at all–and he liked to think he did–then he knew they could party hard. Especially considering how grueling work had been recently, he knew they would likely be suffering from hangovers and exhaustion in the morning. Fortunately for them, he had an idea. He'd seen Penelope bring in coffee cups from a place called Lunacorn many times, and he'd heard her rave about it just as often. He decided it wouldn't hurt to stop by and bring them all coffees. Sure, he had to wake up an extra hour early since the coffee truck was out of the way, but anything for the team, right?
"Hey hey," he said upon entering the Round Table Room. "Emily told me what you guys were getting up to, so I figured you could use these." He placed the coffee tray in the middle of the table, and the four women eagerly reached for them.
"Oh my god," Tara groaned. "Get this caffeine into my face hole."
Penelope looked at her cup and was beyond stunned when she saw the name on the label. "This is from Lunacorn! Luke Alvez, stop making me like you!"
"Ha! Never," he promised. His heart swelled at her statement. God, he liked her so much it would have been embarrassing if he could find it in himself to care.
The rest of the team sans-Reid filtered in, and they started their after-action review.
"Casually count still hold at eight?" Luke asked Penelope. "Including Roberta and Everett Lynch?"
"Yep!" She exclaimed happily. Then her face fell. "Wait, no."
Emily turned to face her. "Garcia?"
"Yes, eight casualties: our six agents, Roberta Lynch, and Orlando Gaines, the private investigator. That's it."
"Wait a minute, that means that…" Tara started.
Emily finished her thought. "Everett Lynch is still alive."
Shit.
***
The team was loath to call Penelope while she was at the hospital checking in on Reid, but they needed to.
“Hey,” she answered. Her voice didn’t sound especially distraught, Luke noted, so that was probably a good sign.
“How is he?” JJ asked.
“He’s stable.”
“Thank god,” Tara sighed. “Is he awake?”
“Well he opened his eyes for a second, that’s progress,” Penelope told her.
“Please tell him I will be there as soon as I can,” JJ begged.
“You bet I will,” Penelope promised. “What’s going on with Lynch?”
This is where Luke jumped in, wanting to talk to her, no matter what it was about. “We’re thinking Grace’s mom might be a clue to where he’s going.”
Penelope searched for details on Liz Coster, Grace’s mom, but found she’d OD’d on Oxy five years prior. Another dead end.
Rossi grunted in frustration, causing Luke to look over at him. “What’s up, Dave?”
“Lynched roped me into his story, I have to be part of his endgame somehow. He picked up his phone. “I need more security for Krystall.”
The phone rang very briefly before she picked up. “I saw his badge, I just opened the door, I’m so sorry!”
Luke felt his stomach drop and his blood run cold, and he wasn’t the only one, if the looks on his teammates’ faces were any indication.
“Have you figured it out yet, David?” Everett Lynch asked, his cool, charismatic voice seeming not to fit the monster they knew him to be.
“I have something you need and you’re holding my wife hostage until you get it?”
“Call in all your favors, this is gonna be a doozy.” With a click, he was gone.
“They’re near Centerport,” Rossi informed them, checking the geo-location of Krytall’s phone.
“We need a plan,” Emily said.
“What kind of plan?” Matt asked.
“A great plan,” she responded.
“I know what he wants,” Rossi told Emily. “Call the Director, no one else. This only works if it’s need-to-know.”
Emily looked unsure. “What is it?”
Rossi’s face looked grave. “We’re going to have to make a trade.”
***
After what possibly seemed like the longest few hours ever, Everett Lynch was really dead, and the case was finally over. Rossi had to go to the hospital since he was shot in the leg, so they met Penelope there, and got to visit Reid as well.
At one point, Luke nudged Penelope and leaned down to whisper to her, “Hey, it’s been a long night for all of us, want to grab everyone some coffee with me?”
She nodded. “Yeah, good idea.”
She was unusually silent as they walked.
“Hey, are you okay?” he asked her. “You seem like your brain’s going a mile a minute.”
“I’m just not sure how much more of this I can do,” she confessed. “Every time someone I love is in danger because of this job… I lose a little bit of myself. And I’m worried that if I don’t get out soon… there won’t be much of me left.”
“So are you taking that job in the Silicon Valley?”
“Oh no, not that one,” Penelope laughed. “I have zero interest in moving back to California, thank you very much.” She sighed heavily. “But I am thinking of leaving. It’s not the only offer I have.”
“Penelope,” he said gently, placing a hand on her arm so that she would look at him. “I mean went I said when I told you I don’t want anyone going anywhere, but you need to do what’s best for yourself. If that’s leaving, then that’s leaving. We’ll support you through it, no matter what you pick.”
She smiled at him then, like she was seeing him for the first time in a different light. “Thank you, Luke.”
“Anytime. I mean it.”
***
Two weeks later, Penelope called them into the Round Table Room. Luke was expecting another case, but when he saw the nervous look on her face, he knew it wasn’t that. He shot her a comforting smile. You got this, it told her. We’ll support you no matter what.
She smiled gratefully at him before addressing the rest of the team. “You guys should know I just submitted my two weeks’ notice to Emily. I love you guys, and this place is my home, but I just can’t do it anymore.”
JJ smiled sadly, reaching out for her best friend’s hand. “We’ll miss you, but we understand. You’re doing what’s best for you.”
Luke shot her a look that said, Told you so.
“Do you know what you’re going to do?” Tara asked.
“Not yet, but I have so many offers… I’ll figure something out.”
“Well I feel like a farewell celebration might be in order,” Rossi declared. “And you had better prepare yourself, because it’ll be the party of the century.”
***
Tara, Luke, and Reid all arrived at Rossi’s house for Penelope’s party at the same time, deciding to split an uber so it was less expensive and they could all drink as much as they wanted without having to worry about driving.
They arrive just as Rossi’s asking Matt and Kristy about Rose.
“She’s the best baby ever,” Kristy raved. “Maybe it’s because it’s number five and not much can surprise us anymore.”
Matt laughed. “Maybe it’s because we’re actually getting sleep.”
“Oh not tonight you’re not, my friend,” Tara said, coming up behind him. “This is going to be the celebration to end all celebrations. Full commitment from everyone.” She pointed around the circle of people, and they all laughed. Luke knew though, that she wasn’t only talking about committing to partying, but reminding him that he had to commit to his plan to ask Penelope out that night. He’d told Matt and Tara about his idea as soon as Rossi announced the date of the party so they’d be able to hold him accountable and not let him chicken out.
“I can’t believe it,” Will said as he and JJ approached. “The band is breaking up.”
“How’re you feeling, kid?” Rossi asked Reid.
“I’m feeling great,” Reid replied, an easy smile on his face. “And I’m starting back next week.”
“Oh come on,” Tara groaned. “Teaching and consulting? You’re making me look bad.”
Reid shrugged. “Just doing what I love.”
Luke picked up a glass. “Well hey, I will drink to that.”
Just then Penelope entered the backyard with Krystall following close behind her. “Uh, you’re not supposed to start the festivities until the belle of the ball has arrived,” she declared loudly. Much to Luke’s joy, she situated herself right next to him.
“Don’t worry,” he said, handing her the glass he had completely intended for himself and reaching for another one. “Because this is going to be the first of many.”
“Penelope,” Kristy called out. “Congratulations! Here I thought we were celebrating Dave’s retirement, but Matt tells me it’s your farewell party. And you got like, a hundred offers?”
“Well, that’s only if you round up, but yes,” Penelope replied gleefully. “It’s a non-profit, it’s close to here, and the dress code isn’t all FBI conservative like I’ve been having to do.”
Luke lifted a hand to his mouth as if attempting to physically wipe the smile from his face. Yeah, he thought to himself. Because that’s exactly what you’ve been doing.
JJ shook her head. “I’m still in denial that you’re leaving so…”
“Won’t be the same without you,” Matt said.
Penelope grinned. “It better not be.”
“Dave decided he wasn’t going to retire,” Emily informed them. “He didn’t want the team to go through too much of a transition all at once.”
“That’s because Dave’s never going to actually do it,” Krystall teased.
“Hey look,” Rossi said in his defense. “Being with you all, doing what few others can… that’s where I belong. But tonight is not about me.” He raised his glass. “To our beloved Penelope! Salut!”
Everyone echoed his cheer heartily, and Luke couldn’t keep his eyes off the woman next to him. Beloved, indeed.
Once everyone else arrived—Rossi had invited nearly everyone who worked in their building—the music started and the dancing began.
David Bowie’s Heroes was playing, and Luke was delighted to find himself dancing with Penelope, singing along to the words of the song.
He pointed at her as the words you, you will be queen blared through the speakers.
As they sang the words and we kissed, Matt came up and placed his hands on their shoulders and shouted, “Kiss!” If Luke hadn’t been having such a good time, he almost would have wanted to throttle Matt for nearly giving everything away before he actually got the chance to ask Penelope out.
They kept dancing together the whole night. He spun her around at one point, and if he checked her out briefly as he did, who could blame him? Somehow Luke, Penelope, Tara, Reid, and Matt ended up dancing in a line, and Luke would be lying if he said his heart wasn’t ready to burst at the fact that he and Penelope each had an arm around the other. The brief moment where they grinded on each other gave him that last little encouragement he needed that things wouldn’t go poorly when he finally asked her out.
After many rounds of dances and drinks, Luke decided that it was time. “I need some water,” he said to her. “Want to come with?”
“Yes please!”
The two made their way over to the refreshment table where Krystall had so kindly liad out a few pitchers of water. Penelope was carrying her heels in one hand, and Luke was clapping his own in an effort to psych himself up.
Ever the gentleman, Luke poured her a glass first. “Thank you,” she said, taking the glass from him and taking a sip.
Luke poured his own and then finally, finally took the leap. “So, uh,” he took a sip of his water, hoping to get his nerves under control. “I was thinking, since we’re not gonna work together anymore that, uh… maybe I could take you to dinner?” His hopeful eyes caught the moment she fully absorbed what he was asking.
She started nodding rapidly before saying anything, but eventually found her voice. “Yeah!”
Luke couldn’t believe his luck, he needed to be sure. “Yeah?”
She kept nodding, a genuine smile spreading over her face now. “Yeah.”
“We’ll eat.”
“I—I, Yeah!”
Luke barely contained his smile. “Cool.”
Penelope grinned into her glass. “Mhmm.”
Finally.
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Caesar Route Chapter 15 - Happy Ending (11-15)
Last time on the Caesar Route, Remy successfully gets Liz and Caesar out of legal trouble while implying that he still needs them for some shady shit, then Liz and Caesar have a date that I have to sit through and summarize.
Caesar just orders coffee from the pastry shop, which is the most Edgelord thing ever, and more shenanigans of the romantic variety that I don’t care to elaborate upon happen, the most important of which is Liz somehow eats a telling-the-truth or telling-your-feelings cake.
Why is this surprising? Didn’t we have to sit through the literal kiss of true love breaking a fucking curse?
Huh. That’s kind of a stupid charm ngl.
Okay, I guess that’s a problem in the context of an otome route. Liz is also unsure if they’re a couple, but she bottles up her feelings and doesn’t bring them up to Caesar. Girl we’re literally in the endgame, clock’s ticking...
That hypothetical “telling-your-feelings” cake I joked about earlier sure would come in handy right about now...
Anyway, Caesar takes Liz to the Forgotten City to recount his backstory for the second time, then they go to a nearby park and finally talk about the apparent existence of true love between them because of the broken curse.
Queued for July 27
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@elenajones23 asked me these questions literally like a month ago but I wanted to do some research to remember some of the anti-m@lex points and then my mom died so anyway I'm answering them now!
(keep in mind I haven't watched any of s4 yet)
Who do you ship Kyle with? Who do you want him to end up with? And why?
.... I've thought about this a lot. I was an enormous Kylex shipper and still love what they could have been if the show had taken things there. (As soon as I find a non-racist, non-white, actually Native actor to fancast as Alex for edits, I'm sure I'd be crazy about them again.)
Aside from them, I think the last ship I liked him in was either Guerenti or kyle/michael/maria (their one episode killed me). I did like kyliz in the beginning, but now I know they share a sibling it's further down the list.
Do you ship Michael & Maria and do you think they still have a shot of being endgame?
GOD YES i ship them. i may love guertecho, but miluca was my first michael ship that cannot be pried from my hands. That being said, no, I don't think they will be endgame. the m@lex stans are too loud and they've already decided to push maria off onto another side character because the cw hates woc.
Agree or disagree? Alex is TOXIC af and his relationship with Michael is TOXIC af. might seem sweet on the surface but it’s actually toxic just like Ross & Rachel.
... the friends reference made me laugh so much. i also don't like ross/rachel, mainly because of Ross, but I do think they're far different than m@lex. (i think liz/max post s2 finale are more rachel/ross honestly, but that's a different conversation)
as for Alex and by extension m@lex being toxic... definitely agree.
to begin with, Alex refuses or perhaps is incapable of seeing the class privilege he has while Michael grows up in poverty. he tells Michael with no compassion that he has to leave the only home he ever had that wasn't abusive or a literal truck. he constantly demeans michael in s1 for doing what he can to survive and brands him as a dirty criminal that's wasting his life. Whenever Alex talks about his trauma, he's always punching down.
he didn't care what was best for Michael consistently. he stole the part of Michael's ship, ignoring the significance. he guilted Maria after he finds out she slept with Michael, knowing that she didn't know, and knowing that she'd push Michael away for him. All when Alex wasn't sure he truly wanted to be with Michael the entire season? After consistently playing hot and cold?
I think one of the worst offenses to me is that after Michael was reunited with the mother he thought was dead who was then killed less than 15 min later, Alex wanted to trauma dump that same night. Without comforting him and then arguing when Michael said he couldn't talk at the moment.
And Michael knows all of this. It's why he chooses Maria in season one. She's the healthier option and someone who can make him happy without the pain that Alex brings via previous trauma. to quote @dylanobrienisbatman when Michael says love is the worst thing that ever happened to me... "sir, you are an abuse victim."
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How can Miluca fans think that they were always the endgame and that Michael always chose her. And that she was always his main love interest. Like what version of the show do they watch. Malex have been IT since the pilot.
I have...literally everything about m*luca blocked so I haven't seen this take but like....for real what show are they watching?! The pilot episode specifically parallels Malex and Echo. Max and Michael are stuck in Roswell, Liz and Alex come back at the same time after being away, we see Max talking about loving Liz since they were teens, we see Michael looking at the picture of him and Alex when they were teens, Max and Liz have a moment at the reunion, Michael and Alex have a moment at the reunion, like, what is not clicking?! And actually, the more we learn, the more firmly Malex are established even over Echo! They had some moments but were never together, never kissed or anything, and she was actually dating someone else most of the time, where as Malex were friends and getting closer while both being single, Michael was staying in Alex’s shed, they had a first kiss and a first time, and even after that we see them continuing to see each other until Alex left for the military, and it’s implied that he came back or at least kept in some kind of contact with Michael over the years, where as it’s established with Echo that Max had not seen her or had any contact in the 10 years since she left.
What does m*luca have? Her being ashamed of Michael (not trying to protect him like Alex was doing) and talking down to/about him at all times? Threatening him if he tells anyone she’s slumming with him? Taking everything he gives trying to prove he can be good enough for someone to stay while giving him absolutely nothing but derision in return? Some kind of “love story” you got there 🙄 Just say you got dumped once and now you fantasize about making men grovel for you no matter how badly you treat them, and go.
#my sweet nonnie friends#roswell nm#anti miluca#anti maria deluca#it's the same with all the people banging on about tay kay/buckt*ylor from 911 and how 'cute' they were together#while she's out there calling him 'needy' and 'intimidated by strong women' (a blatant lie) and a 'bad friend'#and giving him shit advice and being of zero help or emotional comfort to him ever#and totally unable to recognize when he's totally shut down around her because she prefers him that way#that's not a love story!#it's women being shitty partners to men because apparently if women are the ones doing the using it's okay#like whatever you want ship whatever you want but don't try and pretend it's good or cute or sweet when it's very clearly not
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Are there couples like dair that you know of?
Do you mean in real life? Because that’s classified. Also, not really. That kind of insanity only exists in fiction.
Fictionally though…I can think of many. I think that’s why my affection for dair is so enduring, it ticks so many of my ship boxes for me, so let’s dive in, on a tour of liz’s fave romantic ships
Let’s start with the classics.
The original romcom couple: beatrice x benedick of shakespeare’s much ado about nothing. They have everything: eviscerating banter, guy being an absolute simp for his beloved. Nads has written about it before.
And of course, the austenites: Darcy x Lizzie and Knightley x Emma are big ones, and I think there’s definite vibes with Wentworth x Anne too.
the Blueprints are When Harry Met Sally and Summer x Seth (and tbh you could probs throw Holly Golightly and Paul Varjak and Tracy Lord and Mike Connor — I would have picked jimmy stewart tbh. rip to katharine hepburn but I’m different. )
Sidebar: Oh but you know who knows SO much about Philadelphia Story and all romcomedy bc they’ve written academically on the subject? tumblr user scabopolis!—somewhere, mayhaps a fic comment?—they told me that that script was written with the intention of the ending being punitive for the heroine. if hepburn and the writer weren’t combating early 20th century misogyny, would the play and subsequent film come to a different conclusion???
As mentioned here: kate x anthony from bridgerton have a multitude of parallels. absolutely dair coded.
And I mean…I already made this post about the parallels with Japril but REALLY: the different backgrounds—one rich one middle class; workplace romance; adversaries to best friends to lovers; shared trauma through the loss of a child; RUNAWAY BRIDE; mutual pining; backdoor endgame which I know the gg revival will not give me but a girl can dream
Nads and I have discussed at length how dair coded the Emily Henry couples Gus x January & Charlie x Nora are. And Henry’s talked about how inspired all her work is by Nora Ephron, so. Mutual blueprints (Poppy x Alex have a best friends to lovers that is DELICIOUS but the characters themselves aren’t that similar to dan and blair on that level)
Speaking of mutual blueprints, the mindy project’s mindy x danny have a GREAT workplace enemies to lovers arc in the first couple seasons…the second half of the show roughens them up a bit. (and danny castellano is SUCH a different daniel than our girl dan humphrey)
And in the realm of “stop being so mean to me or I swear to god I’m gonna fall in love with you” allow me to talk a bit about one of my favorite ships of all time: luke and mara jade skywalker.
Okay so, in the extended star wars universe; in the novels that were written BEFORE the new trilogy (and before the prequel trilogy in some cases), these published fanfic pulp scifi books introduced this character, mara jade. She was the personal assassin and fixer for the emperor, and when he was killed, she was like “I have to get revenge” so of course she makes it her life mission to destory luke skywalker. And then of course they get thrown into a few impossible situations where they have to team up and she discovers that actually she doesn’t hate him which of course makes her furious, and then after a couple more teamups she realizes she likes him, how horrifying, then after luke convinces mara to train as a jedi in between smuggling deals she realizes she’s in LOVE with him?! while luke has been down bad since the first assassination attempt they are literally those posts that go “she thinks they’re sworn enemies but he is just some guy with a crush on her” and “she stops trying to kill him and honestly he’s a little disappointed. star wars sequels committed many sins but the original one was cutting out my girl mara jade skywalker.
I have discussed at length with S (and even written fic) on the dair-codedness of amy and jonah from superstore.
Speaking of S, she also made me watch Hart of Dixie and whilst the main couple zoe x wade have a chaotic adversarial romance that may speak to dair, the true dair of the show, the couple that came late in the game, but looking back seems like they should have belonged together all this time (I caught Vibes in s2 but that’s neither here nor there): ANNABETH X GEORGE! They have a long history of mutual disinterest/only tolerating each other for the sake of the mutual love of their life, Lemon, and then after a couple heartbreaks and a long winding road, they fall for each other! and Lemon is like the captain of their ship—it’s both Dair and the resolution the blair x serena x dan triangle deserved!
And in terms of childhood love vs the love you grow into have this whole fic verse that expands upon the dair & amy x laurie parallels
#asks#anon#gg meta#dair#much ado about nothing#billy shakes#p & p#emma#persuasion#jane austen#kathony#japril#the mindy project#nothing but respect for my favorite skywalker#hart of dixie
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Roswell, New Mexico: Dear Mama (4x04)
This episode is going to be difficult for me to classify. I feel like I can list a million things I don't like about it, but at the same time I enjoyed it over-all? Like, my list of complaints is going to give a misleading impression as to my real feelings. I don't know. Let's just dive in.
Cons:
Starting in subplot land... Anatsa feels like a waste of time now that we've seen the end of her story. I get it, she was never going to be endgame with Isobel, but why drag out four episodes were Isobel can't get up the nerve to tell her truth, and then have Anatsa end things right before Isobel actually tells her? Anatsa had so much potential to be an interesting character. Imagine the angst potential, if Anatsa knew the truth and couldn't stop herself from doing her job as a reporter anyway. It would be an interesting parallel to Liz's science putting the aliens at risk. Instead, all the hesitation and Isobel getting a pep talk from Cameron... I don't know. I'm left feeling like a lot of the time we spent with Anatsa was completely pointless, and that's not how I want to feel. Also... Cam saying she still wonders about Max makes me irrationally angry, I really didn't need to know that. Sigh.
So... Mimi is a character with such a confusing place in this show's history. I feel like so much of what was set up with her in season one of the show never came to pass. She was our sympathetic character who nonetheless seemed genuinely afraid of aliens taking over the world. And now she's gone, and her death felt so random, right at the start of the episode. I guess part of my complaint with Mimi's death episode is that I wanted it to be something it was never trying to be. I wanted to understand Mimi more. I wanted Maria to get more of a focus in an episode that should have been all about her, but instead she only gets a sliver of screen-time. I wanted Liz and Maria and Alex and Rosa to all be together to mourn for this woman who took care of all of them in different ways. Instead, we get Dallas comforting Maria, what else is new... I don't know. It just felt kind of cheap for me, to have the whole group together at the start of the episode in the bar, saying they're going to be there for Maria, and then immediately they all scatter to the winds to do alien research stuff. I wish this show spent more time on the friendships! I wish Liz and Alex, who are supposed to be Maria's best friends, could have spent this episode focused on her!
I miss Alex, which is a given... this was an episode where I wish we could have started to ramp up on people realizing something's wrong? It's maybe just a minor pacing thing but Liz and Max are out in the desert, and I thought maybe they'd find a hint of Alex. Eduardo is kidnapped and rescued and mind controlled, etc. etc., you'd think someone would want to check in at Deep Sky, and maybe then realize that Alex hasn't reported in... I don't know. Mimi dies, and Alex never calls anyone back about it? Maria doesn't even get a text from him over it? It just feels like there were opportunities here for someone to start to be slightly suspicious, and none of them were used at all. A bummer.
So... the Bonnie kiss thing. Honestly it doesn't make me that mad, but I wish it hadn't happened because this fandom is so mean to anyone who is perceived as a threat to Malex... I don't know, I feel very torn about the whole situation. On the one hand, I'm glad it happened quickly instead of dragging out. It would have felt insulting and pointless to try and pretend that Bonnie/Michael was a real possibility, so I'm glad we didn't get the narrative trying to push us there. On the other hand, what was the point of giving Bonnie a crush on Michael in this way? If it's a way of building her character, showing how she's lost and looking for comfort, then okay, fine. If it's just there so Michael can reaffirm is love for Alex, then... it's completely unnecessary, we really didn't need the outside confirmation. However, if this moment is the prelude to Bonnie helping Michael on his quest to save Alex later in the season, then I'm okay with it! I guess you could say I feel torn about whether this needed to be there at all, but I'm not furious it happened or anything.
Dallas as a character needs to be more than just Maria's support. So far this season we've mostly had him supporting Maria and Michael on their various issues. We saw some hints of him working with his powers this week, and I hope that continues, because it's not exactly a good look to have basically your only dark skinned character existing to be emotional support for everyone else, and nothing more. Just throwing it out there.
Pros:
Like I said, I actually really liked this episode overall, and my complaints above are not enough to deter me from that! Tezca as a shapeshifter is a twist that really works for me. Much like how season one had the whole "who is the fourth alien" thing going on, now we get the fun of not being able to trust that people are who they say they are. Odds on Alex coming back, but it actually being Tezca? That would be intense and so much fun to play around with! The effects on Tezca shifting between herself and Cam and Eduardo were laughably bad, but in that charming way that I kind of adore. We've got Eduardo and Cam mind-whammied and then seemingly abandoned, and then this third alien running around causing havoc, we've got Jones potentially resurrected (although I hope they fail in that)... basically, lots of fun alien mysteries abound, and I'm ready to see more of it.
I like Liz having that moment to break down about Mimi, that felt really good and cathartic. I do wish Maria had gotten more focus, but for what it was, I really did like it. Shivani's moment of comfort was so sweet. Liz deserves strong maternal friendships in her life!
While I wish we had more of a focus on Maria this episode, I do like that we've got a mystery to solve with her mother. That could be a cool thread to pull, and hopefully she'll find a way to be connected to her powers again without putting herself at further health risk. Maria's story throughout the seasons has always been about finding her sense of identity and community, so I can't wait for more of that.
Kyle is putting together more of the puzzle pieces on a trip to his family's original town in Mexico. I'm glad to see Kyle have a story that's not just about pining after Isobel, but I also did love the moment with her, where he continues to be a totally great guy and the two of them have adorable chemistry... come on, Kybel... I'm rooting for you...
Max and Liz are simply the cutest this whole season? "You are my turquoise", are you kidding? So cute. I wanted Max to pull up some sort of evidence of Alex in the desert, but the scene with the truck was still super cool, and Liz jumping on him and kissing him warmed my heart. These two deserve all the sweet and happy vibes in the world, after what they've been through on the road to get here!
We get two Alex mentions this episode, both from Michael. I like that he calls to tell him about Mimi, although I do wish the show spent more time acknowledging that Alex and Maria are supposed to be good friends. I guess that's what fic is for.
The second mention is the Bonnie kiss situation. Despite my mixed feelings on this even happening, I really do like the time we spent this week with Bonnie, Clyde, and Michael. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff going on there. Clyde is something of a fanatic, a pupil of Jones who doesn't like Michael sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong. I loved the scene with the tracker ring and Michael setting his own hand on fire to destroy that evidence and also reveal who he is. Clyde doesn't seem to fully trust him, but he is intrigued by him and his role in events, given their dead boss, and Michael showing up as his apparent heir.
And then there's Bonnie, who honestly seems like she's spent most of her life not knowing who she could really trust, letting herself be manipulated by Clyde. No wonder she started crushing on Michael, a gentle, kind man who says he's here to help. Honestly, I love what this plot thread does for Michael's character. He's managing to walk the tightrope, find out new information from Bonnie, learn about his home planet, while still doing what he can to help Max and everyone else discover the truth about these new aliens and their plans. He's really matured and grown into a stable person who's comfortable in his skin. Also, of course, my heart did indeed melt to hear Michael say "I have a boyfriend, and I'm kind of completely in love with him." I miss Alex so, so much, but if the episodes he's not in have lines like that, it's hard to complain too much.
So that's where I'll leave things. I can't believe we have nothing new next week, that I have to wait two whole weeks for my next dose of this show! Maybe a glimpse of Alex or Rosa, my missing beloveds?
7.5/10
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Part 2
Part 1 here
Arctic Summer World
+ I only read the summary of the story. Can't say it left a strong impression on me. I guess the serious part didn't left a mark on me since it just thrown at the last bits. While the fun stuff are there but its mostly just the usual FGO humor. At least nothing as memorable as "Raikou, Kiyo, and Serenity lava swimming" in Halloween for example.
+ The 5* Servant are all top tier and worth to get at least one of them. Proto Merlin is Merlin but arts, which seems simple but since art team is the most stable way at handling CQ her presence can't be understated. Summer Ibuki is probably the best AoE art looper. And Summer Skadi is now the top Quick meta support. The 4* ones are pretty great too such as Summer Erice and the welfare Summwr Valkyrie.
+ The gimmick of the event is fun. Like, the servants chibi sprites that appears as you expand an area is cute, and the news headline detaling what others servants were doing are fun to read.
Guda Guda Shin Yamatai Koku
+ Story wise its probably one of my top favorite ones in FGO events. The brutality and tragedy of warring states is shown here. All the characters also pretty solid. For example, Nobu isn't the main star on this event but her character here is the best for me compared to her previous appearances. But I think what I love most the main theme the story has. Its that Man's nature is still a Beast, they betray each other and the weak ones are up to the mercy of the strong. The way Kukochihiko says "Its up to you to closes the age of beast and open the age of man" really speaks to me about what this event is all about. And I love it.
+ Rikyu is also amazing villain. The way she bertray everyone, torment Ishida, and in fact checkmated everyone at the end and only concede due to Komahime and Guda talking her out. Her motive is also reasonable although her endgame plan didn't make much sense (maybe it just the translation idk).
+ I think Iyo is pretty cute. Also loves her backstory with Kukochihiko and Himiko.
+ Gimmick wise the event is nothing special. It does have good farming value though.
+ The Rengoku alt skin is neat. Wish it change the outfit a bit though.
+ The new servants are good I think. Both are great AoE looper especially Iyo. She can loop in lv90++ node in Morgan event dor example.
Halloween 2022
- The stort feels a bit underwhelming. The climax fight is anti-climatic (I guess that's the joke) and the villain is just plain unlikeable. Are Lasagna seriously trying to hint it being future servant?
+ I love the forming your army as the event gimmick. As Suikoden fan I'm really enjoying it.
+ Huyan is a pretty fun character. Huang Feihu is cool dad. Not much to say about Shi Jin Liz.
+ Nothing special about the new servants gameplay wise. Pretender Liz is AoE Pretender in case you missed Oberon (though Oberon's value lies as busted farming support). Huyan and Feihu are pretty solid.
Chaldea Fairy Knight Cup
+ It doesn't have much story. But I enjoy some servants interaction. And I think the climax scene with Britomart is pretty cool, more than what I would expect at least.
+ While Britomart real appearance is a bit... let down, and I'm not fan of her dress, I think character wise she's not too bad. She feels to me like better version of Saber Lily. Basically her but has more gutso. And I love her being excited instead at facing adversity. Her attitude is admirable.
+ The Exhibition Quests are fun. Although its a bit letdown since I don't feel as much frustration as with EQ quests from previous events (lv90+ Nero, MHXA, etc). Europa's one the closest thing to make me feel frustrated.
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Give me Peter Parker (002) for the ask game!
I'm going to talk about Peter Parker from the movies, especially Tom Holland's Peter Parker because I have never read his comics or played his games... Let's go!
What I love about him is that he is relatable to me: just a teenager committing mistakes, the pressure over going to college by everyone surrounding him, the hormones, and his love life while trying to save his neighborhood and his loved ones by keeping his identity a secret.
I had to admit I started shipping him with Liz in Homecoming but now it is always and forever MJ! In fanfic, oh God, I have shipped and read so many of him with many others like Stark, Loki and Deadpool... The list goes on and on!
His relationships with the other Avengers are my non-romantic OTP, especially with Steve, Natasha, Sam, and Bucky. I'm sure they would see him as a little brother and would do everything to keep him safe!
My unpopular opinion - but not so unpopular in the fanfics fandom I guess - is that Peter is Bisexual or at least I want him to be to explain some theories in my head and to be even more relatable to me somehow
I wanted to know if Skip - the only thing from his comics I know - was real to Peter or not and that's one of the reasons he became Spiderman, on top of Ben's death of course. And this would be also my headcanon fact because, unfortunately, I think it truly happened to him!
He and MJ at the movies - they are endgame - and he is an adult and Stark in fics!
I don't have any crossover ships with him as far as I can remember...
Thanks so much for asking ☺️
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wait i almost forgot 💀 so here we go: medium length post about ross and liz' (TV) canonical symbolism regarding each other and their relationship:
in the very first episode of the show (1x1): aunt agatha decides to have a tarot card reading after liz' wedding. this is how we first find out that ross and liz are the King and Empress of each other, the show, have what you will with that whatever.
the script explains it here:
at first i thought that was just a cute name for the both of them, but then i got curious on what those cards meant....and did i get my mind blown.
so, not only do ross and liz have dedicated cards for each other, they are actually perfectly compatible and compliment each other in every way possible. this confirms my theory that ross and liz are not average loves and that some form supernatural and/or fate was in play, because their love was portrayed much more strongly and intense than regular couples i have seen on TV (and i don't mean the chemistry between heida and aidan, yes that is very much real but i mean from an objective storyline point. for example i made a post about how in most cases where a death of a person mutually loved by the couple breaks them, it only made ross and liz stronger together).
i also looked into it a little bit more and it's not possible to have The King and Empress cards to come up unless you are deliberately doing a love reading. so agatha just decided to break out the deck of cards and do a love reading right after liz' wedding, she's so 😭😭😭
here's agatha putting down the King and Queen (Empress) cards (which we now know are ross and liz):
but that's not all. agatha continues her card reading and we see the cards for Four of Cups (i searched it up and it represents depression, sadness and insecurity - clearly francis), the wheel of fortune and The Devil (definitely george, as agatha called him that very name more than once). but then i saw another card that caught my eye (highlighted):
that really interested me, so i searched it up and the meaning is here:
this is literally the ross+liz+george love triangle (i use the term very lightly) and the valentine arc being read right here before our very eyes. also: here's The Lovers card, which is important later in the post.
so not only are ross and liz stated to be and symbolized by The King and Empress, they are also represented by another card called The Lovers. and while francis and george have their own tarot cards representing them, ross and liz are the only characters in the entire show who have separate cards that directly relate to each other, and the only ones to have a shared card together.
now, moving to the last part of the post: The Lovers card.
in the beginning of the S4 finale there's a flashback, and we see agatha do another reading (i don't necessarily know if it was a love reading), and i was curious after i found out about the S1 reading, so i peeked at the table and flipped the frame over and The Lovers card comes up AGAIN on the table.
this is why i believe my post about ross and liz' contrasting color of horses was deliberate because writers can forget a lot after a S1 launch to a S4 finale, and yet they remembered to bring in ross and liz' shared tarot card at the very beginning of the show, halfway through the episode!
(i should also put a note here to say that i'm a Christian and am not invested in this stuff for real, only within the show's context so lol.)
at the end of the day, i'm just happy these exist even if the endgame ship differs because i am sick of being gaslit and lied to by the fandom that ross and liz didn't mean anything and was nothing. if it wasn't then they wouldn't be the only characters in the show with two connected cards and the only characters to have an exclusively shared card, shown TWICE across separate seasons.
TO RECAP:
The King and Empress card w/ explanation
& The Lovers complete w/ explanation:
thank you for coming to my ted talk <3
#rossliz#rossbeth#ross poldark#elizabeth chynowyth#elizabeth poldark#poldark#text#they are MY babies idc what you claim they are
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