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lariskapargitay · 4 years

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Brienne of Tarth is Lightbringer

Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow and Stannis Baratheon.

All three are grey heroes in the series, one of which is the most popular character in the book and especially the show. All three are legendary figures from their respected Houses- the one true king who should have been Lord of Stormsend, the secret prince born of ice and fire, and then there is the Mother of Dragons, Mysha, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains and the last (so far as we know) Dragon.

All three have been, supposedly, chosen by the Lord of Light, and all three are the leading choices for Azor Ahai with their individual weapons (dragons, a valyrian steel sword and a burning sword) acting as the legendary weapon Lightbringer.

It makes sense; the great leaders who’ve been prophesied to end the long night. One even has DRAGONS, it would be absolute folly to imagine anyone else’s from three big huge players, one of whom the series is named for whose story is so heavily linked to the Others, to act as Azor Ahai or the weapon prophesied to end the Long Night; Lightbringer.

This post isn’t to dissuade those three or others from being AA or LB, but rather to put forth a new candidate to act as the legendary metaphorical ‘sword’. Someone who was a supporting player for the second and third books, ignored in the show, and for some reason people consider boring when she finally gets a chance to shine in her own POV.

Brienne of Tarth.

The ugly girl who wants to be a knight, a noblewoman whose house isn’t a great one, who has blood ties to both the Targaryen and Baratheon dynasty and who were kings and queens in their own right once upon a time. Not much is known about House Tarth apart from their sigil, rose and azure quartered with yellow suns and white crescent moons, the name of their keep Evenfall. Their descendants were not always called ‘Tarth’ though, their family name was once ‘Evenstar’, which has been passed down to be the official title of the Lord of Tarth.

Their House seems to have a fond appreciation for the sky and all that comes from it, including naming the small little island off Tarth ‘Morne’ to stand for morning, with only House Dayne as a challenger in regards to their love and admiration for the celestial. All that to say; House Tarth values light, in all its natural forms. The sun, the moon, the stars, the morning dawn… Their sigil and title literally brings light *looks directly at the camera like I’m in the office*, and it is one of only sigils where no matter what; it cannot be killed. No matter if the Dead or Living wins the war, the sun and moon and the evenstar will rise day after day until the end of eternity. Dragons and krakens and crows and stags and direwolves and lions can be killed, but the lights in the sky can never be.

The title of Evenstar itself also has connections to Lightbringer. Lucifer means ‘Lightbringer’ and it is the Latin name for the planet Venus. Venus used to be called ‘Evenstar’, and Evenstar is, as covered above, the title of the Lord of Tarth. With Faegon attacking Tarth, it is safe to presume that Selwyn, her father, is dead and Brienne is now the Lady of Tarth making HER the Evenstar which literally, not metaphorically, makes her, Lightbringer (which is something no other contender can claim.)

Another language fact is Tarth means smoke or fog in the Welsh language. “Born amidst salt and smoke,” is a large part of the prophecy of AA & LB and Brienne, being born on an island that means smoke in the middle of a salt sea…

ACOK Davos I

“To oppose it, the hero must have a hero's blade, oh, like none that had ever been.”

AFFC Brienne I

>When she was small, her nurse filled her ears with tales of valor, regaling her with noble exploits of Ser Galladon of Morne, Florian the Fool, Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and other champions. Each man bore a famous sword, and surely Oathkeeper belonged in their company, even if she herself did not.

Brienne often thinks of Oathkeeper as a ‘magic sword’, and here she not only calls it a heroes sword, but she is humble enough not to consider herself amongst them. The sword is worthy of being a part of something great but not Brienne herself. And right after she refuses to call herself a hero, she kneels, blade in hand, and says a prayer to the Crone whose known to bring light *once again looks at the camera like I’m in the office* to help guide people who would ask for it.

>**AFFC Brienne I**

>Kneeling between the bed and wall, she held the blade and said a silent prayer to the Crone, whose golden lamp showed men the way through life. Lead me, she prayed, **LIGHT THE WAY BEFORE ME**, show me the path that leads to Sansa.

Now, onto a huge moment for Brienne, where a large bulk of this theory comes from. The dream Jaime has, the prophetic Weirwood dream where most of his prophecies have come true.

>**ACOK Davos I**

>“In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword.

>**ASOS Jaime VI**

>Brienne’s sword took flame as well, burning silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more.

>Brienne moved her longsword back and forth, watching the silvery flames shift and shimmer.

>Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne’s burned, as the ghosts came rushing in.

Lightbringer is, in its most basic form, a burning sword. Brienne, Stannis, Thoros, Beric, Jon and Jaime are the only ones to use a burning sword. Stannis sword is proven to be a fake, Thoros uses tricks to get his sword to light on fire, and Beric had a legitimate magical burning sword but he gave up his life for Lady Stoneheart. That leaves Jon in his dream then Jaime and Brienne in Jaime’s dream.

Again, this essay is not to dissuade the other candidates, but I personally do not believe that GRRM is the type of writer to let the secret dragon prince, the just leader, the Aragorn of Westeros get the big prophecy fight in the end. Aragorn wasn’t the one to destroy the ring, it was the unsuspecting big footed hobbit who saved the day. In any case Brienne DOES carry a flaming sword she uses to fight the dead, and she is the ONLY LIGHT left in Jaime’s world and the world itself. And yes, Jon does carry a red flaming sword in his dream whereas Brienne carries a silvery blue flaming sword in Jaime’s dream, but Oathkeeper, her sword, is red and black. It’s spell forged, it’s magic, **IT COMES ALIVE IN THE SIGHT OF FIRE**.

>**ACOK Davos I**

>And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.”

>**AFFC Brienne VIII**

>In the light from the firepit the red and black ripples in the blade almost seemed to move.

Let’s move on to another significant moment in Jaime’s dream is when a naked beautiful Brienne touches him.

>**ADWD Jon III**

>Therefore after Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm.

>**ASOS Jaime VI**

>She put a hand on his shoulder and he shuddered at the sudden touch. She’s warm.

Brienne is warm in his dream just as Lightbringer the sword is warm, she carries a flaming sword, she brings light, she’s the only light in the world… The dream can be interpreted in a few ways, mostly done to either prove or disprove an eventual romance between Jaime and Brienne, (I 10000% proves it does along with all the other evidence but that’s another 2000 word essay for another time.) But I believes it also offered a substantial amount of proof to my theory that Brienne is in fact Lightbringer. Melisandre even says the Lord of Light created the sun and moon and stars to assist them in ‘keeping the night at bay.’ .

>**ADWD Jon III**

>The Lord of Light made the sun and moon and stars to light our way, and gave us fire to keep the night at bay.”

Once again; let me bring back the Tarth fascination with the celestial

>**AFFC Brienne II**

>The arms of Tarth were quartered rose and azure, and bore a yellow sun and crescent moon.

>**ASOS Jaime IV**

>“I am Brienne of Tarth, daughter to Lord Selwyn the Evenstar, and sworn to House Stark even as you are.”

Brienne is the sun and moon, she is the brightest star in the sky. Yes there was a magic comet that fell for the birth of dragons but it lasted only for a while then died off. The Evenstar will always stay in the sky, as well as the sun and moon. They will always bring light.

Now, branching off into LOTR territory for a moment, Brienne is given the exact same introduction as Eowyn was when she killed the Witch-King, as ‘no man’ could kill him

>**The Return of the King, book 5, ch. 6 "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields"**

>“But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund’s daughter!”

>**ACOK Catelyn II**

>“He is no man, My Lady. That’s Brienne of Tarth, daughter to Lord Selwyn the Evenstar.”

Don’t you think there’s just the tiniest bit of coincidence that GRRM introduces Brienne using a VERY similar quote to another blonde shieldmaiden who is confused for a man right before she helps destroy the leader of a great and terrible undead army and helps save the day?

Now, all this isn’t to say she’s an absolute shoe in for Lightbringer. That’s not to say it won’t be the obvious choice and Jon and Dany or Stannis save the day and they get to rule Westeros for 100 years and they get to be the ones who tell the Hobbits they bow to no man. But what I am saying is Brienne is just as much in the running to be Lightbringer as them. And just how bards can slay dragons, and Hobbits can destroy rings; an ugly girl who wants to be a knight can most definitely be a Lightbringer.

#asoiaf #brienne of tarth #asoiaf theories #asoiaf thoughts #lightbringer #brienne the beauty #azor ahai #game of thrones #game of thrones theory

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thousandeyesand-one · 5 years

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S08E01

Ok so here's where D&D suck. They try to create an "open to interpretation" kind of scenario with most female characters, arya is definitely there but nobody is given a hard time over it more than Daenerys. They never explain or make her explain the why's & how's, because they want daenerys to be the "bad ass dragon queen whose impulse has given the show it's many epic cinematic moments"

GRRM does something quite similar too. He writes characters as faulted as human beings are supposed to be, he likes to conflict a reader's mind in the most tiring way possible. He said afterall he believes Faulkner's words "The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself".

He makes his character do an action/say some words that more or likely they HAD to. But then he introduces the consequences of the said action/words while at the same time he gives a reason & understanding of why such a hard decision was made/tough words were used. GRRM creates conflict in such a way that it is upto YOU. The Reader, to decide for themselves what they make of the situation. Which ultimately means it's only one's assumption to choose to believe the character was wrong because you choose to ignore the reason behind their action/words. While the one's who support the character chooses to accept the character not only with the reason behind the action/words but also with the consequences of it.

Your "hate" towards daenerys is just YOUR assumption, your villainization of daenerys is just YOUR assumption, your degradation of daenerys's efforts & experiences is just YOUR assumption. Not the actual story definitely not the author's intent.

The scene where daenerys takes the unsullied is the most bad-ass, jaw dropping & inspiring scene centered on a female character ever. When it dropped I remember GA being taken by how "bad-ass" she is. But now I see haters using Astaphor as a "brutality" condoned by daenerys. All because the show never cared to reflect upon a deeper more sympathetic thought process behind doing what she did. While tge book reading haters like I said above choose to ignore her reason & only care about the consequences.

Tv Show: "we never really get this sense .. of her capacity for cruelty. They are surrounded by people who are terrible people but haven't done anything to her personally. It's interesting to me how the sphere of her empathy widens the sphere of her cruelty widens as well."

-Dan Weiss ( X )

Books:

"I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn't have done that. He wasn't just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can't protect themselves?"

"Some kings make themselves. Robert did."

"He was no true king," Dany said scornfully. "He did no justice. Justice . . . that's what kings are for."

– Daenerys III ASOS

The show never showed this side of daenerys's story GRRM is literally giving a reason behind what she is doing at Astaphor while in the future books you get the consequences of those actions, THAT'S HOW YOU CREATE AN INTERNAL CONFLICT IN A READER (&/or) VIEWER.

What D&D do with dany all the time is leave her reasons behind & only show her actions & the consequences. Which over time lead everyone to believe she is descending into some form of madness, that she is an entitled power hungry monarch & that she is actually being a villain! Ignoring the fact that D&D draw inspiration for the show from a book series whose author treats all of his characters in a conflicting manner.

Something like that happened in s08e01. Am not talking about the s@nsa vs daenerys situation. I think it's a call back to Alaric Stark & Queen Alysanne Targaryen's relations. Alaric Stark was known to be cold & hard towards Queen Alysanne at first but eventually softened towards her in time being as he got to know her more. S@nsa stans don't need a reason to hate on daenerys so this storyline was like a gift to them to continue that petty hate.

No matter what their relationship prospers into I have to say s@nsa was being unnecessarily rude towards daenerys. Alaric Stark actually had a reason to be cold towards the Targaryens, his brother died defending the wall against a mutiny caused by some prisoners King Jaehaerys had sent to the wall. But there is nothing that daenerys did to harm the Starks?! S@nsa herself has no reason to hold a grudge towards daenerys or the Targaryens. The northern lords are being a bunch of ignorant fucks still dwelling on the politics of the past that which a "smart" person would overlook given the state of emergency they are in. Instead s@nsa is using that ignorance to incite more segregation in Winterfell. Knowing well that the wall was breached she is treating the dragons as a burden when girl! they are your best defence against the undead one that Night King controls. S@nsa might be smart but right now she is not acting smart!

Regarding the matter of food, I don't think s@nsa understands the level of danger that the oncoming army of the dead possesses against the living. Alaric Stark was judgemental of Queen Alysanne & the party that travelled with her because she wasn't necessarily there to defend Winterfell against anything, she was there on one of the many royal progression's that the king & queen did all over the kingdoms. But daenerys isn't here on some progress she is here to stand her armies beside the North men & Knights of the Vale in the fight. It is S@nsa's duty as the Lady of Winterfell to arrange for the food & other commodities for perhaps the greatest alliance northerners have.

I don't much tread into the doylism aspect of things but the way s@nsa said that she didn't account for the dothraki & the unsullied did she mean she was expecting Jon to die in the south? Because there was only two ways Jon's southern trip would go he might return with allies hence more mouths to feed or he might die. That sure don't sound all that smart of a deduction though!

When daenerys said "whatever they want" she defended her children reminds me of how everyone used to tell the direwolves don't belong inside the castle walls but out in the wild but the stark kids defended them anyways. Daenerys did the same thing too she defended her magical wild beasts who, just like the direwolves are dangerous & different.

Daenerys expecting respect from sansa isn't entitlement, Jon is S@nsa's king & daenerys is Jon's Queen. By that it is a certain decency to give daenerys that respect. In inside the episode video David nutter & Sophie say that s@nsa wants daenerys to know that this is HER home??! I mean daenerys doesn't want her home she wants your respect, she has a home it's called Dragonstone!

“No man has ever died from bending his knee,” her father had once told her.

“He who kneels may rise again, blade in hand. He who will not kneel stays dead, stiff legs and all.”

-the Kings Prize ADWD

I just can't wait until s@nsa softens upto daenerys like Alaric did towards Alysanne. So people can actually focus on other more important things in the storyline.

Then about the reaction Sam had when he learnt about his father & brother's death.. THAT WAS ABSURD. He clearly wasn't that sad when he learned of randyll's death but his brother's death affected him most. Which reminds me of a quote..

He wondered whether Dickon would shed a tear for his brother who died in the snow, somewhere off beyond the edge of the world. Why should he? A coward’s not worth weeping over.

-Samwell I, ASOS.

Do it now. Stop crying and fight, you baby. Fight, craven. It was his father he heard, it was Alliser Thorne, it was his brother Dickon and the boy Rast.

Craven, craven, craven. He giggled hysterically, wondering if they would make a wight of him, a huge fat white wight always tripping over its own dead feet.

Do it, Sam. Was that Jon, now? Jon was dead. You can do it, you can, just do it.

-Samwell I, ASOS.

Sam remembers his brother in the books with the likes of Ser Alliser Thorne & Rast. It is understandable that his heart might be broken to listen of his brothers death but to do what he did especially to the last remaining family of his mentor, Maester Aemon Who treated him 1000x times better than both his father & brother.. Maester Aemon felt so passionately about Daenerys & he only trusted that information to Sam.

"No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must."

-Maester Aemon, Samwell IV, AFFC.

Daenerys is our hope. Tell them that, at the citadel. Make them listen. They must send her a Maester. Daenerys must be counseled, taught, protected."

-Maester Aemon, Samwell IV, AFFC.

Alleras stepped up next to sam. "Aemon would've gone to her if he had the strength. He wanted us to send a Maester to her, to counsel her & protect her & fetch her safely home." "Did he?" Archmaester marwyn shrugged. "Perhaps it's good that he died before he got to oldtown. Elsewise the grey sheep might have had to kill him, and that would have made the poor old dears wring with wrinkled hands." "Kill him?" Sam said, shocked. "Why?" "If I tell you they may kill you too" marwyn smiled a ghastly smile the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth.

-Samwell V, AFFC.

It is so awful that Sam has infact put the last two family members of Maester Aemon's blood against each other. He is treating Daenerys the way he treated Alliser Thorne when Sam realised if Ser Alliser becomes the Lord Commander his life would be hell so he literally uses Jon & raises him to be a Lord Commander in the hind sight to protect himself. When Jon actually (in the books) decides to fight for Winterfell & take stannis's offer.

Instead, he blamed Jon Snow and wondered when Jon’s heart had turned to stone. Once he asked Maester Aemon that very question, when Gilly was down at the canal fetching water for them. “When you raised him up to be the lord commander,” the old man answered.

-Maester Aemon, Samwell III, AFFC

“Dragons,” Aemon whispered. “The grief and glory of my House, they were.”

- Maester Aemon, Samwell III, AFFC

Not only was Sam's reaction a little over the top but it was wrong how he channeled it upon Jon as well. He ruined the most important revelation of Jon's life because of, again, himself. Jon also didn't seem to care about the fact that daenerys is related to her (lmao) but was more taken aback by Sam suggesting him treason against daenerys.

I do not want to play the oathbreaker, even for good reason.

- Jon VIII, ACOK.

Jon Snow flexed the fingers of his sword hand, remembering all he’d lost. Sam, you sweet fat fool, you played me a cruel jape when you made me lord commander. A lord commander has no friends.

-Jon X, ADWD.

"I had a frightening dream last night, m'lord," Dolorous Edd confessed. "You were my steward, fetching my food & cleaning up my leaving. I was Lord Commander, with never a moment's peace." Jon did not smile. "Your nightmare, my life."

-Jon VI, ADWD.

Daenerys: "We all enjoy what we're good at" Jon: "I don't!"

-GOT, s07e03.

Jon doesn't want to have power for the sake of power. Over & over again in the books & in the show he made it clear he did what he did to fight the Army of the Dead not for a crown.

Jon: "Do you think we can beat the Army of the Dead without her? I fought them sansa twice, you want to worry about who holds what title I am telling you it doesn't matter. Without her we don't stand a chance.. Do you have any Faith in me at all?

Sansa: you know I do.

Jon: she'll be a good queen, for all of us. She's not her father.

Sansa: no, she's much prettier .... Did you bend the knee to save the North or because you love her?

-GOT s08e01

There are two reasons why anyone would bend the knee.

•Out of fear, fear of cruelty, collapse or death.

•Out of love & respect & trust.

Jon bent the knee to daenerys for the latter, that scene with sansa & Jon was cut off annoyingly leaving the argument hanging but there was more than just love, yes Love is there My god if this isn't what every jonerys stan had been screaming since s07 ended. But there was more than love, there was respect for letting him mine the dragonglass regardless of no existing alliance, there is also trust when daenerys actually not only let him go beyond the wall but also flew all the way there, solidifying the trust he placed in her to come to his aid without an alliance in place.

Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the wall. A girl in grey on a dying horse, he thought. Coming here, to you. Arya. He turned back to the Red priestess. Jon could feel her warmth. She has power. The thought came unbidden, seizing him with iron teeth, but this was not a woman he cared to be indebted to, not even for his little sister.

-Jon IV, ADWD.

But instead he chose to be indebted to daenerys by asking for her help without giving her anything in return. Because he trusts her to be a good, reliable Queen & she won his trust.

Sam: "Don't you know?

Jon: know what?

Sam: Daenerys, she executed my father & brother. They were her prisoners.

Jon: ......

Sam: she didn't tell you

Jon: I'm so sorry. We need to end this war.

Sam: would you have done it?

Jon: I have executed men who disobeyed me.

Sam: you've also spared men thousands of Wildlings when they refused to kneel.

Jon: I wasn't a king.

Sam: but you were you've always been. Jon: I gave her my crown Sam. I've bent the knee am not King in the North anymore.

Sam: Am not talking about the king in the north am talking about the king of the bloody seven kingdoms.

.......

your mother was Lyanna Stark your father, your real father was Rhaegar Targaryen. You've never been a Bastard you are Aegon Targaryen true heir to the iron throne.

.............

You're the true king, Aegon Targaryen, sixth of his name, protector of the realm, all of it.

Jon: Daenerys is our Queen.

Sam: she shouldn't be.

Jon: it's treason.

Sam: it's the truth. You gave up your crown to save your people would she do the same?

She literally did the very thing in s07e06 when she left dragonstone with Drogon, Rhaegal & Viserion to rescue Jon.

Tyrion: "You cant win the throne if you're dead. You cant break the wheel if you're dead."

Daenerys: "So what would you have me do?"

Tyrion: Nothing. Sometimes nothing is the hardest thing to do. If you die we're all lost everyone, everything!"

Daenerys: "You told me to do nothing once before & i lostened to you ... am not doing nothing again."

There are moments in the story both in books & show where we do undeniably see daenerys put the people or her children ahead of her crown.

That morning she summoned her captains and commanders to the garden, rather than descending to the audience chamber. "Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver's Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on."

"You have brought freedom as well," Missandei pointed out.

"Freedom to starve?" asked Dany sharply. "Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?" Am I mad? Do I have the taint?

"A dragon," Ser Barristan said with certainty. "Meereen is not Westeros, Your Grace."

"But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?" He had no answer to that. Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. "My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I've freed all over again." She turned back to look at their faces. "I will not march."

"What will you do then, Khaleesi?" asked Rakharo.

"Stay," she said. "Rule. And be a queen."

– Daenerys VI, ASOS.

Not that she must or she needs to give up her crown for Jon or anyone so Sam can be convinced with her being a good queen. Fuck that! Sam is being impulsive here (something that daenerys is blamed of, turns out everyone does it) she has on multiple occasions put her people first. Sam hopefully learns it in time because his knows I don't want him to be the A-hole he acted like..

If she had been some ordinary woman, she would gladly have spent her whole life touching Daario, tracing his scars and making him tell her how he’d come by every one. I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me. Besides, kings who lost their crowns oft lost their heads as well, and she could see no reason why it would be any different for a queen.

-Daenerys VII, ADWD.

A queen belongs not to herself but to her people.

– Daenerys V, ADWD.

The red priests believed in two gods, she had heard, but two who were eternally at war. Dany liked that even less. She would not want to be eternally at war.

- Daenerys V, ASOS.

"We will have it all back someday, sweet sister," he would promise her. Sometimes his hands shook when he talked about it. "The jewels and the silks, Dragonstone and King's Landing, the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms, all they have taken from us, we will have it back." Viserys lived for that day. All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

- Daenerys I, AGOT.

She did take a dozen flasks of scented oils, the perfumes of her childhood; she had only to close her eyes and sniff them and she could see the big house with the red door once more.

- Daenerys VI, AGOT.

"He died for me." Dany clutched her lion pelt to her chest. Underneath, a sheer white linen tunic covered her to midthigh. She had been dreaming of a house with a red door when Missandei woke her. There had been no time to dress.

- Daenerys I, ADWD.

"Is it Daario? What's happened?" In her dream they had been man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. In her dream he had been kissing her all over—her mouth, her neck, her breasts.

-Daenerys II, ADWD.

Dany had never known a home. In Braavos, there had been a house with a red door, but that was all.

-Daenerys III, ADWD.

Soon Dany was as clean as she was ever going to be. She pushed herself to her feet, splashing softly. Water ran down her legs and beaded on her breasts. The sun was climbing up the sky, and her people would soon be gathering. She would rather have drifted in the fragrant pool all day, eating iced fruit off silver trays and dreaming of a house with a red door, but a queen belongs to her people, not to herself.

- Daenerys IX, ADWD.

Isn't it amazing how the very episode in which Sam raises the question "will she give up her crown?" is the very episode where daenerys said this

She obviously didn't feel at home neither at Dragonstone nor at Winterfell. This romantic moment is the closest to a house with the red door this show has ever done.

Also notice how throughout the episode whenever Jon is speaking to others he refers to daenerys as Queen. But when he is alone with her by that waterfall he refers to her as "a southern girl". Jon loves the girl daenerys not "the floppy ears" of the dragon queen that she wears..

-Daenerys VII, ADWD.

"So we pray. I want to plant my olive trees and see them fruit." Does it matter that Hizdahr's kisses do not please me? Peace will please me. Am I a queen or just a woman?

- Daenerys VII, ADWD.

So the point is neither does it make sense for Jon to turn against daenerys all of a sudden for something like a title that he himself just said doesn't matter to him. Given that the third episode is where the battle for dawn is supposed to take place. Iron throne is not on Jon's mind. Plus I don't think Daenerys will be anything but shocked, confused yet happy to find a family member, none other than the son of her elder brother whom she idolizes, she is in love with Jon as he is with her!

A crown should not sit easy on the head. One of her royal forebears had said that, once. Some Aegon, but which one? Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him.

-Daenerys I, ADWD.

Ser Davos is already planning a better solution to all this. A just woman & an honorable man to probably get married!

Now I need Sam to somehow learn more & more about who daenerys actually is.

#jonerys #jon snow #daenerys targaryen #jon x dany #game of thrones #game of thrones season 8 spoilers

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epic-summaries · 5 years

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GOT Rant

Okay, so I rewatched Endgame last night and my mind has been fuming about Games of Thrones since Sunday. Endgame reminded me that I seriously just want Dany to burn all of King's Landing and maybe all of Westeros when she’s at it. While in Avengers I want them to bring back everyone. Why do I feel like this?

Maybe I just want to vent my feelings out because it’s Wednesday and I’m still mad about last week’s episode of GOT. It’s bothering me that I’m still mad about it. Hopefully this helps give me piece.

I think I found the answer to my own question and it’s all about the ‘smallfolk/non-superhero public/peasant?/little people/background characters’. (And partly characters are being used to forward the plot, like D&D wants to get this over with as soon as possible. Which they do want this to be over.)

I remember in Spider-Man Homecoming when Peter was walking/swinging around his neighbourhood and you got lines from the neighbourhood community. They were kind or normal. Some of them had bad days while others like Flash was a dick but he was not malicious. In the first Avengers in Germany, you have that one man who stood up to Loki. In Ant-Man, his ex and her family are extremely nice. In Ant-Man and the Wasp, Jimmy and his government agents are antagonistic but still just normal people doing their jobs (not like literal Nazis Hydra.) There are evil people, like Thanos or Red Skull or Ego, however they are not the norm. Also, people who are dicks do do heroic things and grow (and entertaining), Hank Pym and most of the Guardians.

Let’s compare that to GOT (I want to stress that this a show only complaint and not a complaint about the books). I am having trouble thinking about good people who are also smallfolk from Westeros (we are not talking about Essos). Any smallfolk I think about are from seasons which kept with the books (when D&D cared about the show). There’s Arya’s gang in the second season. Hot pie becomes a baker. Good for him. They start out as dicks but they get better. Then most of them die (but that’s from the books). Ummm. You have group of Ed Sheeran soldiers. There was that father and little girl that Arya and the Hound meet. Then they die. The Wildlings are more calmed down then the books, less rape and violence. Then most of them die. They aren’t even Westerosi citizens.

What did we learn in the first episode and first scene of the season 8 of GOT? The smallfolk hates foreigners. They look at them with disgust.

I know in the books there is a sense of xenophobia from the Northern but Northerners are also seen as lesser by Southerners. It’s more like a family group trying to stay together to protect each other because no one else will (that’s my general interpretation at least, there are actual racist people too). D&D wants to you feel for the North, they want to show them as the victims, they have been through Robb’s war and the Boltons and now they have an army of the undead coming for them. They are the underdogs, and we love the Starks. But everyone is an asshole to Dany’s army because they are not from here. Who cares that she doesn’t have to be here fighting for you racist assholes. D&D if you wanted to make me feel for the Northern don’t make them racist because in this political climate it will push me away. Dany lost her best friend and biggest supporter who was a Northerner btw (though them not liking Jorah would have made sense to me), she lost most of her army but are you grateful? No. She’s not one of us. (I’m going to have one of us from Lion King 2 stuck in my head now.) They forgave Theon for burning Winterfell and murdering most of the population in Winterfell (Theon’s redemption arc isn’t the point of this rant, just how other people react to it). He betrayed them after they let him in. What happened to betraying guest right as one of the worse crimes one can commit? Jaime is fine? He was one of the reasons your beloved Ned was murdered. But Brienne and Sansa are cool with him, so they are cool with Jaime.

(Sure the North Remembers. If only the Manderlys were in the show.)

I get you want your independence but Dany fought for you and sacrificed for you. But naw the only one who gives her any kindness is Missandei in the crypts. Opinions didn’t change after the battle where her dragon killed more people and they stayed dead because fire is the only way the undead stays dead. But who gives a fuck because she or her army are not from around here.

Now, Kings Landing. Maybe the whores are good, they haven’t done anything other then spy for Littlefinger. But other then that? Davos and Gendry are the only Kings Landing smallfolk that have shown any kindness which I can remember. (I’m coming to the remember point a little later.) The problem with Gendry is that I get Thomas Mallory’s Sir Tors feelings from him. When Guinevere and Arthur are married Tors come to the wedding and asks if could be a knight, but he was raised by peasants. But wait Merlin says that Sir Tors is the son of King Pellinore when Sir Pellinore raped Tors’ mother. So, that means Tors is a royal bastard meaning he is automatically better than everyone else, like Gendry bastard of Robert. Davos is a nice exception but he’s a book character and not an invention by the show, so is Gendry. Point being, the two named good Kings Landing characters are from the books. Then, I’m reminded for Sodom and Gomorrah. This is the run down of the story. Sodom and Gomorrah are terrible sinful cities and God/Yahweh/Allah wants to destroy it because the people are just that terrible. Abraham finds out then makes a deal with God. If Abraham can find a hundred good people in the city, God will save the city. Then, the number falls fifty and ends at 10. But only Lot and his family is worthy of saving. Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed. Point being, Kings Landing is Sodom or Gomorrah. They riot, they rape, and are just terrible. We are told they hate Cersei but do they still hate her? I don’t know. We haven’t been shown that they hate her since she took the crown.

In the end, I can’t remember any good smallfolks (who survive and are show only) in GOT and that’s the biggest problem. I have no sympathy for them because the examples I think about are of terrible people or exceptions and almost all nameless. The only time this season you show the smallfolk is to tell me that they are racist which makes them unsympathetic to me. D&D keeps telling me Dany is crazy. Yet she has been rejected or betrayed by everyone in Westeros and the only person alive who hasn’t betrayed her is Greyworm. (A Targaryen alone in the world is a sad thing indeed.) (Sure she did burn the Tarlys but doing something one time does not make someone crazy.) I don’t care about the smallfolks and that’s the problem.

Dany, Dracarys.

#got #game of thrones #dany targaryen #daenerys targaryen #rant #i actually feel better now that i have my thoughts sorted out #marvel #endgame #no endgame spoilers

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deliciouslyburningtale · 5 years

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I’ve come across a lot of meta and theories revolving around Dany’s prophecies, and how they foreshadow major events in her future. In particular, some believe that the HotU prophecy (show version) where she sees her son Rhaego and her husband Drogo, which means that she will only be reunited with her deceased family once she dies (implying that this foreshadows Dany’s future death).

However, not only have Dany decided to leave Drogo and Rhaego in the tent to find her dragons, thus symbolically choosing the life of her dragons over staying with her dead love ones. But season 7 have actually debunked this notion.

When Jon Snow journeyed north of the Wall on the “Wight Hunt” and found himself trapped along with his companions surrounded by the undead army; Dany immediately went north to rescue them with her three dragons. The risk of such a dangerous excursion was made abundantly clear to Daenerys by Tyrion, and the Wight mission was seen as a suicide mission. Dany was basically traveling to a place prevalent with death, unknowingly or knowingly heading directly to face the Night King. It is very interesting that Dany referenced being in the “Night Lands” when she sees Drogo and Rhaego in the tent, after crossing beyond the Wall in her vision.

Just as there can be an subtle connection to the Night King and the Night Lands. The quick unexpected demise of Viserion and Jon Snow’s subsequent fall into the lake, can be an inferred connection to Dany’s lost love ones, her child Rhaego and her lover/husband Drogo. It was already made apparent countless times that Dany sees her dragons as her children, and Dany’s budding feelings for Jon was becoming just as apparent. So it is not much of a stretch to see Viserion as Rhaego, and Jon as Drogo in this scenario. After their “demise”, Dany was forced to leave Jon and Viserion behind to keep her remaining two dragons alive, just like she had to leave Drogo and Rhaego behind in order to save her dragons from the warlocks of the HotU.

But just as Mirri Maz Duur prophecy ascertained that Drogo will return to her one day....

...Jon Snow was able to come back from the brink of death and returned to her alive and fairly whole..

As such, I do not see this prophecy as one that foreshadows Daenerys possible death. Instead, it seemed to foreshadow Jon’s and one of her dragons (Viserion) death, and Jon’s eventual revival. While also cementing the fact that Jon and Dany were destined to be reunited. Of course, this is more of a wild speculation, as prophecies and visions can be interpreted in a variety of ways; but this makes more sense to me in the context of the show.

#jonerys #daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #prophecy #got meta #game of thrones #none of the gifs are mine #got

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nineteensixtieschikadee · 5 years

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Debunking Arya Stark being Azor Ahai and the Princess That Was Promised. (S8 E3)

(Let’s get one thing straight before I write this whole post. I LOVE Arya Stark. That girl is my baby. She’s my favorite character, not only in the show, but also very importantly, in the books. And I LOVED that she was the one to kill the Night King. So this post isn’t in any way going to a post about me complaining about the final 10 minutes of Episode 3 of S8. Instead, this will be me CRITICALLY ANALYZING that moment, and how it fit’s and doesn’t fit into the lore, and the books. Afterall, I am a book reader first and foremost, and a show-watcher 2nd.)

Before I say anything else, I’ll give you guys my rundown opinion of that scene. This morning I was on twitter and Tumblr, and I started losing my freaking marbles because everyone was labeling Arya Stark, Azor Ahai Reborn, and TPTWP. And I wasn’t the only one. Everyone on the asoiaf forums were equally disappointed at how everything about e3 was handled. And I, unfortunately, am one of those people. But here’s the thing, and let’s make this clear. Ask any book reader, NONE OF US ARE MAD THAT ARYA KILLED THE NK. In fact, a lot of us expected something like that, because we know that Arya in the books will have a VERY IMPORTANT role for the upcoming war for the Dawn. There are lots of hints and foreshadow about her doing something remarkable in the books, however, this is not one of them. So let’s analyze and debunk this moment:

Yes, Arya killing the Night King was hella bad-ass. Hell, I even cheered for her. Although when it got to the final credits, I was literally so lost, and confused, and overall disappointed. I was lowkey quiet for the first 10 minutes after, because I couldn’t believe what actually happened. Here’s the thing that is irking everyone about Arya being AA or TPTWP: her killing the NK, so easily AND ALONE is what ruined the plot arcs of some of those characters whose plot actually revolves around the Others. Yes, the moment was EMPOWERING. Being a women who stopped the damn apocalypse. I was inspired. And it was very poetic that Arya killed the ULTIMATE representation of DEATH. But the BUILDUP to her killing the NK? Where was it? A simple foreshadow from Mel about eye colors? The fact that Arya used a sparring move against Brienne in S7? A moment when Bran gives her Catspaw? When she meets Jon, and Jon says, “How did you sneak up on me?”?

Here, the reason why Arya SIMPLY killing the NK so easily doesn’t work, is because it INVALIDATES EVERYTHING about the books and it’s morals, and the text. Arya killing the NK with one stab, while Dany couldn’t even injure him with fire, fucks up the lore and the history so badly, that it all feels so worthless. Pointless. What? Was everything that happened in the books a BIG RED HERRING?? You spend so many years BUILDING up to this war, and Arya simply killing him without any problems or consequences is what wins the war? What about Daenerys? What about Jon? WHAT WAS THE POINT? WHY WAS HE WAS BROUGHT BACK? Just to be King? Huh? And BRAN.

Yes GOT is about the Throne. And it would make sense that the show ends where it started, with the throne. But the whole point of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE is about ICE AND FIRE. The balance between life and death. The balance between good and bad. The balance between magic and reality. The whole point of the battle between ice and fire, is that none of the things involving the throne matters. Bc there is an even more powerful danger lurking on both sides. Dany being a danger from the south (fire) and the Others from the north (Ice). There has to be a balance between those two things, and that is not the Iron Throne.

Let’s go back to the AA prophecy quickly. People on twitter were lowkey confused because apparently no one knows who Azor Ahai is, and now everyone immediately thinks it’s Arya cause she killed the NK. Here’s a small rundown: Azor Ahai, or The Prince/Princess who was promised was a prophized figure who fought against the Others (White Walkers), bringing forth a summer after a generation of winter and darkness. This prophecy is to come back into fruition once more, now that winter is coming. And HIS is the SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, who will be reborn amidst salt and smoke, and is prophisized to save the world AGAIN from eternal darkness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3o2LqFZcGU Click the link for more info. This one is my favorite video analysis about AA. (IN SHORT, AA IS BASICALLY JESUS, LOL)

Now I know prophecy should always be taken with a grain of salt. It shouldn’t be taken too lightly, or too figuratively. BUT! AA is NOT just anyone. There are REQUIREMENTS to be this prophesied savior. (See video above.) Those requirements do NOT FIT ARYA. I really tried. No this fandom tried. We tried making even the slightest connection, even metaphorically that Arya could somehow be the PTWP. But the only thing we could find that actually made sense, was that she felt “reborn” when she saw the red comet (bleeding star) back in ACOK (S2). Not even metaphorically does she fit this prophecy. Now here’s the next counter argument: What if prophecy is just bullshit, and none of it is real, and we’re all just wasting our time? Yes, all of that is plausible. HOWEVER, you spend all this time, 8 seasons, 5 books, with SO SO SO MUCH foreshadow and hints, and LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE, that it doesn’t properly pay off? GRRM is NOT like that. There are characters in the books that predict ACCURATE prophecies and foreshadows. In fact, there is a character who is known to accurately predict prophecy. And she does for Arya. Guess who it is? *Bingo bingo!* The GHOST OF HIGHHEART. (Jenny’s Song. S8 E2)

“I see you. I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death ... You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!” (ASOS, pg 593)

Prophecy may not be accurate at times. But they DO pay off. This prophecy here is literally the equivalent of Melisandre giving the “Colored eyes” prophecy in the show. Because in the books, Mel doesn’t even meet Arya and there is no colored eye foreshadow, or any sort of foreshadow that she is TPTWP. There is however, other ways you can interpret this prophecy above. (You decide.)

Prophecy is a BIG THING about the books. Yes, it may not be accurate, but they HOLD MEANING. THE AZOR AHAI PROPHECY IS THE BACKBONE OF THE WHOLE WHITE WALKER STORYLINE. By ignoring this prophecy, you are essentially taking away the PURPOSE and the real motives of these characters who are INTERTWINED with this prophecy. The reason why Arya killing the NK so easily and ALONE is a problem with us, is because it invalidates this prophecy, and therefore makes everything, all the buildup absolutely POINTLESS. The characters that have been involved from Day 1 with this prophecy, have been reduced to nothing more than a side story. A myth.

Let’s look at all the characters whose building story arc have become irrelevant because of the writer’s decision to pull that plot twist:

Jon Snow:

Wow. This one literally couldn’t hurt any more than it already does... From his first chapter, to his first scene in the show, we are led to believe that this character is literally nothing more than Ned Stark’s bastard. A side character. It is made clear that he IS A BASTARD. He IS AN OUTSIDER. Both him and Arya have parallel arcs. They intertwine beautifully. This is why people think Arya will also have a role to play with the Others in the later books. Because she and Jon share the same story, just she is dealing with a different kind of death. GRRM from the book emphasizes Jon’s bastard title, and his mother. And he isn’t really made out to be an important character until MUCH LATER in the book series. The fact that there’s so much emphasis on his title, and R+L=J is IMPORTANT. Bc the whole AA prophecy states that AA will be reborn out of Jaehaerys line. Not anyone from the Starks. Also the line, “You know nothing Jon Snow,” is even more relevant because it’s full of irony. You have the guy who’s known to know nothing, but he actually KNOWS MORE than anyone realizes. Jon’s whole arc is about the Others. Which would have made his fight with them MUCH MORE PERSONAL because his storyline is physically and emotionally connected to them. The fact that he joins the Night’s Watch is important too. Because no, they don’t just fight wildlings in the books. Their purpose was to protect the realm from the Others. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. This is so relevant because Jon becoming king, would make it MUCH MORE meaningful. A king that PROTECTED the realm. Assuming he even becomes king, would make his whole arc come full circle and would be so much more rewarding. You have this dude resurrected from the dead, and what? Was his purpose just to unite the people and become king? You have this character foreshadowed to have a standoff with the ultimate bad guy, and he does nothing but run around screaming at an undead dragon...Yes, it’s cliche. BUT IT’S STILL GOOD STORY TELLING BECAUSE IT’S BEEN BUILT UP PROPERLY.

Bran Stark:

I don’t even have words for this one... You have Brandon Stark literally the most OP person in all of the seven kingdoms and YOU. DONT. USE. HIM. Okay I agree, GRRM says Bran is the hardest character to write in the books, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for him to just warg into ravens and do what? Scout? That’s it? This kid was literally pushed off a tower that ended up triggering his journey to become the 3-eyed raven a.k.a THE MOST POWERFUL MAN IN THE UNIVERSE, and he does absolutely nothing but sit around predicting other peoples future, and being weird, and warging into ravens. Lol what’s worse is that he’s just there in the show to serve the other character’s plot line. By “TRIGGERING” these events that the characters will eventually get into. Bloodraven in the books is SCARY AS HELL. No one really knows his motive and yet he can do so much more than what Bran does in the show. Bloodraven is the definition of MIND BLOWING. Bran AND JON ARE THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE THE MOST PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED TO THE OTHERS, AND BY THE END, THEIR WHOLE ARCS WERE THROWN IN THE TRASH. They don’t have a big face off, or any sort of payoff. Just staring and staring and staring. And BAM. Welp Night King’s dead. Oops guess we were just here for absolutely no other purpose than to trigger events and bring all these dumb people together. (Sorry, this one lowkey triggered the hell out of me. The 3 eyed Raven, Hodor, Meera and Jojen DID NOT DIE just for Bran to not be used to his full potential...)

Daenerys Targaryen:

This one is soo annoying. Daenerys Targaryen, fits literally ALMOST ALL the signs of the prophecy that it almost seems too obvious if she was AA. But welp, none of that matters now because she didn’t really do anything to kill the Night King. SHE DID DO MORE THAN JON though, I’ll give her that. Yeah she’s a conqueror going for the Iron Throne. But she’s also a direct descendant of King Jaehaerys’ line. Part of her whole arc is fire and blood. But it is also about her fight for her birthright, and if she would give up her birthright to fulfill something greater. We as fans, we root for her to get the throne. But we also root for her to do something MORE. But more IMPORTANTLY, her arc is also in parallel with the Others. And no, I don’t mean that she’s a mad queen. But the title of the series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Daenerys is a THREAT from the south. (Fire.) And the Others are a threat from the north. (Ice) There has to be a balance between them. In the show she loses a dragon, one of her children. And the fact that her choice of weapon doesn’t do ANY damage to the ultimate villain, but a simple stabbing does? I don’t even like Daenerys much after s6, but wow. This was underwelming to the core. Dragon chick who’s literally a level 1K going against another level 1K final boss and can’t do shit to him??

Rhaegar Targaryen:

This I think is the one that ANNOYS ME THE MOST. Like holy shit, they could not have possibly damaged this whole wretched storyline even more than they already did. But somehow the show writers managed to go and give it one final blow. Rhaegar Targayen. The one arguably responsible for ALL the shit we have in Game of Thrones. The one whose actions triggered nearly every single arc into motion in this whole goddamn series. The man who is arguably considered the REAL MAIN CHARACTER in ASOIAF. HIS WHOLE COMPLEX CHARACTER ARC AND STORYLINE FLUSHED DOWN THE TOILET. I love Rhaegar’s character in the books, cause he’s well, not exactly a good guy. He’s in that perfect morally grey area, which is what I love about characters. He’s not suppose to be likeable. He’s suppose to be complex. But the show not only managed to make him the MOST UNLIKEABLE character in this series, but they also managed to ruin all of his complexities in favor of making him a love-sick puppy thinking with his dick. This was lowkey the biggest fuck you they could give to his character, the characters surrounding him, (*cough* Elia) and to the lore and history of the books. Rhaegar’s whole arc and storyline revolved around this stupid prophecy and that’s literally THE reason why everything went down the way it did in the books. Elia was also INTO the prophecy too, so it’s not like she wasn’t aware of anything! Elia was even helping Rhaegar fullfill this prophecy, it just so happens that she was too sick, to do anything more. The fact that the show chose to ignore this whole thing and disregard the lore surrounding it is literally is the biggest fuck you to Elia and her children. It means that Rhaegar truly was a mad man who left his wife and disowned his children because he was thinking with his dick. When in fact it wasn’t really like that. Rhaegar really did try to protect Elia and their children when he left them. And that too gets thrown in the trash because of this dumb prophecy. And that sucks because Elia played an important role with this prophecy, and she knew and understood it too. And in the end, none of their actions became worth it... By not having the proper payoff from all of this buildup, Elia and her children literally died for NOTHING.

Other characters who’s arc were ruined by the mess in e3:

Samwell Tarly: Was the first character to discover that WW can be killed with dragonglass. He was studying at the citadel to learn more about them, and find info on how to beat them. Not only did this NOT happen, but he didn’t even contribute to anything for the end of the world. Literally just went back to being the scared little puppy he was back in S1/book1. His role then had no relevancy because NK was killed so easily, and he didn’t even learn a single thing about him or how to kill him, other than him wanting to “erase memories.” His whole arc was about him being more than what he believed in. Being smarter than what his father thought he was. And they did not utilize that. He coward back again! Like what was the point of him going to the citadel and stuff if literally the EASIEST way to kill the NK was a simple stab with a special steel?

This episode had so many problems. But Arya Stark killing the NK WASN’T the main problem. You can have the most beautiful shot television series with so much time and effort put in it. But all of that means nothing when the writing is not consistent. The fact that the show did a 360 and practically ignored literally EVERYTHING about the lore and the text, is what’s frustrating everyone. Because while Arya killing the NK and saving the realm BY HERSELF was yes, poetic and SERVED WELL TIEING UP HER ARC, in doing so, it had managed to UNTIE literally YEARS and years of plot threads and buildup from most of the other CRUCIAL characters, that in the end, it feels so empty. Arya should not have killed the NK ALONE. Bran should’ve been a part of it. Jon should’ve helped Arya kill the NK. Now that would’ve been a good payoff for both their arcs. Jon, Bran, Arya, Daenerys and Tyrion are considered by GRRM to be the CORE 5 of the story. And in the end, in this supposedly world ending apocalypse, only Arya really played a KEY role. Bran didn’t do anything powerful to stop the NK. He only triggered events and was bait. Daenerys was getting slaughtered out there, and even her most prized weapon could help her fully. Jon... Let’s be honest, no one knows what in the world Jon was doing this ep. Tyrion was down in the crypts, when this little man literally could have contributed to WAR TACTICS. All these characters are connected with the Others emotionally, physically and/or metaphorically, that the fact that only one of them became crucial to the endgame, makes the story so POINTLESS. What was the point of bringing Jon back from the dead if he was only going to unite people and become king? What was the point of Bran venturing far north to become the most powerful human being, if all he’s going to do is trigger events and warg into ravens? etc.

Arya killing the NK alone hurts because while she is foreshadowed to play a crucial role against the Others in the books, SHE IS THE MOST DISTANT FROM THEM IN TERMS OF STORYLINE. It doesn’t pay off well in the show, because until a couple of weeks ago, she didn’t even know the Others existed. Up until last night’s battle, she’s never seen a white walker. That’s why it didn’t feel right for her to do the kill alone. Her arc did not intertwine with the Others, physically or emotionally. Unlike Jon or Bran whose literal whole arc has been with the Others, and is about the Others. That’s why it feels so empty. It didn’t feel rewarding. It was undeserving. Because up until last night, she’s had no interaction with a single Other, whatsoever. The buildup was actually weak, and because of it, it didn’t feel as good as it should’ve.

Arya’s plotline is more than just hyping up to kill the Others. Like the other core members, she has a complex story arc. Arya’s storyline is about her heart in conflict with itself. It’s about her identity. Part of the reason why she struggles in AFFC & ADWD in her Faceless Man arc, is because she CAN’T become a faceless man. Her heart won’t let her forget her identity. That’s also why she’s had so many other identities in the books. Her different identities are about survival as well. They’ve helped her survive. It’s not really about revenge, and killing, and white walkers. But it’s about her, having so many identities and finding her way back to her true identity. Finding her way back to being a Stark.

So yeah. Arya killing the NK so SIMPLY when there should’ve been more, is like a big fuck you to the books and what it stands for. It invalidates the books. The fact that the books hype up this war for the dawn and prophecy and the Others, and then it just ends after 1 episode? Like that’s it? The NK being killed so easily? The payoff was weak, and it hurts not only the book fans but the book and it’s characters in general. No Arya is not Azor Ahai reborn, or any prophisized savior. She is an assassin and the slayer of the Night King. But to make it even more utterly pointless, the NK doesn’t even exist in the books.

The episode was fun, tense and good! Arya killing the NK was hella badass. But... it just wasn’t A Song of Ice and Fire.

(Congrats if you made it to the end of my very, very, long essay! As always, debates are up and open! Feel free to counter-argue!) :)

#game of thrones #got #got spoilers #Arya Stark #jon snow #daenerys targaryen #bran stark #azor ahai #the prince that was promised #house stark #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #the battle of winterfell #the long night #this whole post made me sad lol

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asknightqueendany · 5 years

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What do you think of this interpretation of S7 foreshadowing and certain cast quotes that suggest Daenerys may become the Night Queen? Any possibility? 1/5, sorry for length idk how to Tumblr.

2/5 Jon may be Azor Ahai reborn. Now that he and Daenerys are together, she might be Nissa Nissa. Given some of the clues from the show, it might be that Nissa Nissa in the past became a Night Queen. The book Sam finds about the Long Night has on the cover a female White Walker with a crown and a sword coming out of her chest, standing on what appears to be a cracked moon. If the original Nissa Nissa became a Night Queen and Jon and Dany reprise those roles, could it happen to her? 3/5 Combine this with Clarke's statements about it fucking her up that "this will be the lasting flavor in people's mouths about who Daenerys is" and that she's "doing weird shit" this season. Having her as the Night Queen is one of the best explanations I can think of for why she would say those things. It would mean that our last impression of Daenerys is as her as a blue eyed Other. It makes far more sense that that would fuck her up than having Daenerys just being dead or on the Iron Throne. 4/5 And having her be the Night Queen would also explain why she's doing weird shit- presumably her personality and goals would be significantly impacted if not wiped out completely by the transformation. And it would be a bittersweet ending. Especially if it were some sort of willing sacrifice. You have this girl who has risen from nothing to become a Queen- completely capable of achieving all the goals she's ever set for herself. 5/5 You have this girl who has risen from nothing to become a Queen- completely capable of achieving all the goals she's ever set for herself. She's spent her life casting off the chains of others. She can take the Iron Throne, return home, remake Westeros however she wants. But in order to do that she'd have to fight an incredibly risky war where countless numbers of her people would die. So at the cusp of victory, she chooses to sacrifice only herself and saves everyone. 6/5 Again sorry for length- I recently discovered your blog and I have been very much enjoying reading your posts. I saw this theory on reddit and even though it makes me feel sad it does seem like something the writers might do so I wondered your thoughts since you seem to think about these things a lot!!

No worries on the length anon. I spoke HERE about what I think Emilia’s words mean and why. Basically, that Dany’s last shot will be of her and her baby.

So far as Nissa Nissa goes, it’s either Drogo with dragons as lightbringer or Lyanna with Jon as lightbringer. I don’t believe Jon will stab Dany. Why does he need a flaming sword when he’s already got a Valyrian steel sword that already kills White Walkers?

Likewise, the Nissa Nissa story could just be the legend of how Valyrian steel was created in the first place - involving blood sacrifice magic and that’s why no one outside Valyria knew how to do it.

I also don’t buy into any Night Queen or New Night King (Jon) theories. The Long Night happened once before and the Others weren’t defeated. They HAVE to be defeated this time. Otherwise in another couple thousand years, this will just happen all over again. It has to end here. They have to be destroyed once and for all like Frodo had to destroy the ring in LOTR.

Nothing in Dany’s stories points to her ending up the Night Queen. In fact, just the opposite, that she will be the one to defeat the Night King:

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.

None of her visions foreshadow Night Queen. Her story does though, have many mentions of motherhood - Mother of Dragons, Mhysa, Dany being pregnant throughout Season 1/AGOT. It’s a theme throughout her story. It has to come into play next season. She can’t have a baby if she’s an undead ice demon.

Thanks for the ask!

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thatfictionalgal · 7 years

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(Was going to wait until I was home and not on mobile but wth.)

Dany and Jon are going to get engaged.

They are going to get engaged because it makes too much political and sociological sense for them. Does that mean they’ll fall in love? No. Does this mean they’ll live happily ever after? Oh gods no. (Its Martin people, who gets a happily ever after?!) Here is how I see it playing out:

Dany has lost two key figures in her conquest: her fleet with the Greyjoys and her main allies with Dorne. She NEEDS strong allies to help her take over Westeros with as little bloodshed as possible since it won’t help her rule. Being a conqueror conflicts with this mother savior figure she has built of herself. She also needs to reunite the seven kingdoms under one rule. She NEEDS to secure an alliance with the North to tie the kingdoms together, regrow her support, and legitimize her citizenship to the country. (Despite being born in Westeros, Dany would be viewed as an outsider or foreigner since she grew up in Braavos.)

Daenerys Stormborne Targaryan would need a political marriage to Jon Snow, King of the North, to get what she wants (Iron Throne).

Now, what does Jon want? The most immediate answer is going to be dragonglass but that isn’t enough of a motivator. It would be terrible of Dany to deny a weapon that would protect the kingdom (presumably her kingdom) from the Night King and the undead army because Jon says no to marriage. There might be push or threat from Dany but I’m sure someone (Tyrion, Jon, or Davos) will make a point to say that if she intends to rule then she needs to act like a ruler now, not after she secures the throne. It also aides in her quest to be a loved queen. Its in Dany’s best interest to agree to dragonglass weapons for the North.

The real reason Jon would agree to a political marriage? To protect Sansa and Winterfell. This is going to mirrored from episode one where Jon and Sansa bickered over what to do with the Umbers and Karstarks. Sansa argued to strip lands, titles, and castles from those families over their betrayal in order to show strength. She was willing to punish children who had no authority or say to what their forebarers did. You know whose family was also betrayed and killed by houses that were supposedly loyal to them? The Targaryans. We justify this as an act of necessity since there was a Mad King who tortured his subjects but the war almost decimated the Targaryan line except for two children (well, three counting Jon). Dany could easily leverage a pardon into a marriage alliance and Jon would go for it because that is who he is. There’s no room for a convincing speech or shame to change Dany’s mind on punishing the houses that betrayed her family, she is far too gone for that.

Jon would agree to a marriage if it meant the Starks were pardoned and were able to keep their home. Yes, he is not getting the better end of the deal but he told Sansa he would protect her and they just got Winterfell back. He cares way too much about her and their home to let it slip through their fingers by a new vengeful Queen.

I fully expect the weirwood scene to be Jon telling Sansa about the arrangement and how he did it for her. This could startle and hurt her enough to walk away from him while stopping herself from looking back.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT JONERYS IS ENDGAME?!?!

No, not at all. This is Game of Thrones. Maybe they get married before boatbang or not at all. Maybe Dany dies in the great war or calls the whole thing off for a greater alliance. Maybe Jon dies (again)! Maybe the north no longer recognizes his authority making the alliance void. Maybe the zombies kill everyone. We don’t know yet. I’m personally holding out hope for Jonsa because it also makes sense and feels like a less forced relationship than a marriage with Dany would be with her current attitude. (She feels cold and closed off. I predict this will get worse the harder things get for her to get what she wants.)

So that’s my two cents.

*Add: Catching some heat from jonerys fans for the tag. Not changing it. Why? Because what I said doesn’t change the validity of your own ship. I basically explained the political motivations and the likelihood of how these two characters are getting together. Here’s another way you can interpret my same exact post in Jonerys favor: - Jon’s desire to protect Sansa and Winterfell could stems from a desire for family. Winterfell is his home and Sansa is the last person Jon can recognize as family. He has loyalties there. Again, its more than likely we’ll see episode 1s discussion of the Karstarks and Umbers fate mirrored in Dany’s regard to the Starks. Jon could argue leinancy, her advisors could tell her how Ned was honorable towards her fate, etc. A pardon would leverage Dany closer to what she ultimately wants and that is how she can get Jon to agree to a political marriage - which doesnt make her a villain, it just makes her a player in the game. And Jon’s feelings towards Winterfell or Sansa don’t invalidate whatever feelings he may have towards Dany - Dany is a hard character now. Think about everything she’s had to go through and overcome. Its built into a fierce, determined woman who cares about the people who serve her. However, she has also learned that people close to her will betray her, public opinion is incredibly fickle, and fear drives her point home - even if she is compassionate towards servant classes. She has had only two happy sexual relationships - Khal Drogo and pirateforhire (can’t remember his name). She also had two engagements that ended terribly and a dead husband, that makes new relationships with partners difficult. She is use to being the strongest person in the room and the relationship (after Drogo). There is the possibility that they marry and grow to care for eachother much like Ned and Catlyn. It could start as a marriage for alliance and blossom into a real romance. Jon could help Dany remember her softer side while Dany takes the reigns of ruling the kingdoms, which Jon would be more than okay with as she is a capable leader. (He’s notably uncomfortable in leadership positions). They’re outsiders who could bond over troubled childhoods, build a strong foundation of trust, and be the ultimate power couple. But its not going to be instantaneous and may likely not be this season. Again, I can be wrong about everything I said. I just like fiddling with ideas and this made sense to me from the political perspectives of the series.

#jonsa #jonerys #jon snow #jon targaryen #sansa stark #daenerys targaryen #jon x daenerys #jon x sansa #got spoilers #got theory #one of these days people are going to figure out I shipped jonerys before jonsa

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hoopslab · 7 years

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Game of Thrones S7 Ep 6 Beyond the Wall: Epic if suspend disbelief

SPOILERS FOR GAME OF THRONES ON HBO, UP THROUGH EPISODE 6 OF SEASON 7. I said, SPOILERS FOR GAME OF THRONES ON HBO, UP THROUGH EPISODE 6 OF SEASON 7.

OK. Here’s the thing. I love this show, and before it the books that inspired it. It’s one of my favorites. And I know that it’s a fantasy show, involves magic, dragons and zombies...so I’m not expecting high realism. But, I must admit...this episode stretched my incredulity to the point that I had trouble pushing it aside. As I pointed out last week, the idea of seven guys going to kidnap a zombie from a group of thousands of zombies for the purpose of convincing Cersei Lannister to be altruistic (which would NEVER happen) was pretty dumb to me. As a premise, it made no sense...but it seemed built for big wow moments (which it delivered upon). Then, in this week’s show, I had to pretend that the 7 guys didn’t go after the zombie with ABSOLUTELY NO PLAN for binding and transporting him across miles of snow with the other zombies chasing. I had to pretend that it made sense for a raven to get all the way to Dragonstone FROM THE WALL and Dany to then fly all the way BACK TO THE WALL in less than a day total. And, where the heck did Benjen come from, with such perfect timing? And why wouldn’t Benjen ride away with Jon on the horse, because zombies don’t move fast enough to catch a horse even with two riders. And...

Pause. Because if/when I COULD suspend my disbelief, this was an epic episode, My wife watched with me, and all throughout she kept exclaiming about how GREAT this episode was. And when I got my mind there, she was right. A lot of important stuff happened that shot the plot forward in ways I didn’t see coming, and the visuals were stunning. We got our first actual Ice vs Fire clash, and Ice was IMPRESSIVE. And, most important to memers everywhere, we seem to have confirmation that Dany finally has Jon ready to bend the knee! So yeah...we’ve got a lot to dig into, so let’s get to it.

Did you have Thoros in your death over/under?

Let’s face it...there was NO way that all of the Magnificent Seven were going to return safely from this trip. Did you have Thoros as your most likely to go? I had it between him and Tormund. Beric and the Hound both seem like they’ve been saved on the show to do something epic, and while it potentially could have been this, that they’d likely play a bigger part in the actual war with the Whitewalkers. Jon should have been safe. I figured that Gendry JUST got back on the show after rowing for four years, and Mormont just got back from his stoneman cure, so they should have been safe.

Thoros’s only role has been to bring back Beric, so he was expendable. I like Tormund’s character better, and as leader of the wildlings he’s still important, but when the zombies started pulling him into the water I thought he was done. Having the Hound save him after Tormund chatted him up was a nice touch, especially since it was the Hound that froze up in the face of fire and kind of let Thoros get mauled by the undead polar bear. Be that as it may, Thoros was the one to catch the L, so if you had him in your pool then you’re the winner. At least he got to go out with alcohol in his system.

Sisterly love

The biggest storyline that stayed south of the Wall was the cold war between the Stark sisters. Last week, Littlefinger saw the fault lines in the relationship and set Arya up to find the letter that Sansa had sent to Robb when under Lannister care. Arya was pissed, and this week let Sansa know. Arya is also kind of scary, and Sansa worried that Arya might move against her for Jon’s sake. Littlefinger loved the angst, and tried to get Sansa to use Brienne to apparently take Arya out (which I don’t think would have gone well for Brienne, but actually that would work for Littlefinger as well).

Sansa was the first to break the chain and step away from the conflict. When she received Cersei’s invitation to King’s Landing, she sent Brienne in her place to get the temptation away. Arya took it a bit further, letting Sansa find her cache of faces and revealing that she trained as a Faceless Man, and that she could even replace Sansa if she took her face (creepy much). But, just when Sansa wondered if she was dead, Arya gave Sansa the dagger and stepped off. The tension is still there, but at the end of the day, it seemed that maybe the sisters turned the corner a bit heading into the finale.

What was the plan?

I mentioned it in the opening, but I still can’t believe that the Magnificent 7 went North of the wall with absolutely no plan at all for bringing the zombie back. They brought...no easy harnesses? No sled/litter ideas? No horses? No ravens of own to send in case of emergency? The only option was to send Gendry running with no weapons and no support, miles, through the snow, back to the wall to send a raven? They couldn’t have expected that Dany would get there so soon, so...what was the plan again? No plan, you say? To that, I say...WTF?

Why not have Bran do it?

This is an aside, as Bran wasn’t in the episode...but plot-wise, why didn’t the showrunners use Bran as the way to get the message to Dany that Jon needed help? He could have been watching the action with his white eyes, through warged ravens, then either sent the raven to Dragonstone (wouldn’t have had to go quite as far, and could have been sent live action, instead of waiting for Gendry to run home) or even come up with a magical way to communicate that makes Ravens obsolete. Just seems like it’s the natural role for Bran to assume, and it’s a way to have made elements of this episode work without having to suspend disbelief quite so far.

Tyrion’s advice unheeded

Tyrion and Dany had a nice talk in front of the fireplace, where Tyrion (again) advised Dany to be a different kind of queen than a conqueror. Tyrion had a nice moment, when Dany mildly accused him of siding with his siblings...before he owned it, and said that a good ruler had to take the sides of their enemies to be able to understand and diffuse them. Nice. But, before the scene was out, Dany had skewered him again for losing their allies and told him to quit planning so far for the future that he lost the present.

Later, after they got the raven that the Magnificent Seven were in trouble, Tyrion also tried to get Dany not to take her dragons and go to rescue Jon Snow, but she didn’t heed him yet again. It’s unclear whether or not Tyrion’s advice is always good, but it is clear that Dany is taking that advice less and less as time goes along.

Night King is a G and & Olympic caliber javelin thrower

I’m one that thought that Dany’s dragons should be comp against the White Walkers. After all, they breathe pure fire...fire was the weakness of the White Walkers...the dragons can fly and attack from a distance...should be easy.

Only, I didn’t count on just how gangsta the Night King is. We knew from before that he could walk through fire, but he straight up doused the flames here while calmly getting his giant ice javelin prepared. Then, unlike the scorpion last week, the was able to use his own brute strength to toss the javelin like an Olympian directly through a dragon. The dragon gushed blood, crashed and fell onto the ice and then slid into the freezing water, dead.

HOLY CRAP! DID A DRAGON JUST DIE?!?!?!?

Dragon has three heads?

One of the most famous prophecies in the Song of Ice and Fire was that “the dragon has three heads.” Many interpreted that to mean that each of Dany’s three dragons would be controlled a different person. Three dragons, three heads. The leading theory was that Dany would control one, Jon would control a second, and that either Tyrion or Bran would control the third.

But now...one of the dragons just got iced. Literally. I kept expecting, all the way up until Benjen showed up, that Jon might somehow get to the dying dragon and bond it, save it, and get it away. When Jon went under the water, I thought he’d come up on the dragon. But no, the dragon was really and truly gone. So...what’s up with that “three heads” prophecy, again? I’m not sure what this means, now.

Dany goes and gets her man

When Tyrion was trying to get Dany to not attempt a rescue of the Magnificent 7, my wife was hilarious. “She’s going to go get here man!” was the only thing she said, giggling. Sure enough, Dany took her three dragons and flew over the wall to rescue Jon Snow and crew when they were at their lowest point. And though the dragons were willing to fly all of them out, Dany was clearly most interested in saving Jon.

After Jon made it out, he woke up half naked with Dany next to him. They spent a lot of time staring at each other, holding hands and speaking softly. Jon tried calling her Dany, the equivalent of a pet name, but she halted that by saying Viserys was the last person to call her that. This is when Jon dropped his bomb, that he would finally bend the knee if he weren’t half-dead and half-frozen and thus unable to get out of bed. In fact, his inability to move seemed to be the main reason why he remained alone in that bed, given how she was looking at him. She did tell him to get some rest, like he may need it.

Ice Dragon?

When Jon didn’t come out of the ice with the dragon, I knew for sure what would happen. Sure enough, the Night King had the dragon pulled out of the water and touched him. And the dragon opened his super blue eyes. The end.

So...the Others and White Walkers now have a zombie dragon. Is this how they get past the wall, by flying over and destroying it from the other side? Will Dany or Bran be able to warg/connect to the ice dragon at some point to bring him back?

And, what of the season finale? Do Arya and Sansa team up to take down Littlefinger? Do Brienne and Bronn help Jaime find his humanity during the big queen meeting? Do Dany and Jon turn in a quick marriage, or maybe move that direction before someone lets slip that Jon is a Targeryen? Does Jon get his dragon? The finale is set to be the longest episode in GoT history...so I’m looking for a lot of huge revelations. Next week can’t get here soon enough... though hopefully there’s no early leak of the episode the way there was this week.