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doufudanshi · 22 days

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ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?

There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—

Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.

To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.

(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)

Demon vs. ghost

Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:

魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”

鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”

To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):

妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.

And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)

So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.

Running the numbers

1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.

魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.

Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:

魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号，这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法，他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.

2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans.

鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.

Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):

蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.

Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:

蓝忘机看着他，似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍，吸了一口气，道：“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道：“鬼道损身，损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”

3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.

It appears ~24 times in the novel.

I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):

金凌怒道：“是在谈论薛洋，我说的不对吗？薛洋干了什么？他是个禽兽不如的人渣，魏婴比他更让人恶心！什么叫‘不能一概而论’？这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害，就是该统统都杀光，死光，灭绝！” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动，魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了，嚷道：“你发这么大火干什么？思追又没说魏无羡不该杀，他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人，你有必要乱摔东西吗？那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”

Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao.

In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.

魏无羡早就听说过，这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士，把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.

So why the confusion?

Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.

The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.

However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."

So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"

One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."

My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."

(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡死了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)

I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?

(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)

#魔道祖师 #mdzs #mdzs meta #mdzs translation #wei wuxian #wwx #demonic cultivation #ghost cultivation #mine #doufudanshi translation #crossposted from twitter #(sort of)

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luriuan · 4 months

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-200 dollars, mom kidnapped, hunted by Zeus, hunted by hades, dead beat dad, 12 years old, eye bags, sickly pale, soaked to the bone, cold, fighting chimera, and foreshadowed betrayal. Let him breathe!!

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farant · 7 months

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octopath sketches (?) from twitter

#octopath traveler 2 #octopath traveler ii #hikari ku #castti florenz #fanart #crossposted from twitter #sketches is dubious because that implies i don't manage to still take 2389472 hours to complete it

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littlepikmins · 5 days

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#black clover #magluck #lugna #crossposted from twitter #magna swing #luck voltia #pikmins post

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mthlg · 3 months

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vicious deep sea creature hx… wide milky eyes….. mouth full of needle-thin teeth, rows and rows… skin bordering on transparent, fingers webbed and nails sharp, unearthly glow a beacon to lost mermaids like sqx…

elegant little sqx, speckled with greens and yellows all over her shining white scales, losing her way in the deep after an argument with her brother. controlling and angry, he had tried to tighten the leash, tried to force sqx into staying inside in solitude like an obedient little heir. instead she had swum away, dived deep into the chasms she'd been told never to approach.

now she swims frantically in the pitch black - confused, fearful, unable to see the light of the sun. there’s a glow in the distance - milky-white, a spot in the dark. sqx does not know which way is up, but surely light is a sign - surely if not the sun, at least it could be civilisation.

the closer she gets, the brighter the light is. the source is huge - three times her body length. it’s a figure that glows, the largest creature she’s seen. hair pitch black, milky eyes with long lashes, wide-set ribs point and prominent. they’re hungry.

“are you lost?” they call, alluring. their mouth opens wider than it should, displaying rows of teeth. sqx is enthralled. she wants to reach her hand out and touch them, no matter how sharp they seem.

“i can help with that,” hx sings.

their voice isn’t sweet or kind or trustworthy. it’s rough, reverberating, a deep sonar call cutting through the chatter of the ocean. it hits sqx down to her very bones, rattling the cage of her chest, drawing her forward like a hook through her mouth. it’s alluring all the same.

sqx has never been shy. sqx has never had a sense of self-preservation. she approaches, and hx’s jaw does not unhinge. she gets close enough to touch. the monster waits.

up close, sqx sees the little flaws. the scars scattering their skin, slicing through their temple where their brows should be. the sunken cheeks and dark circles. this creature is hungry, and has been hungry for a long time. they've survived off of krill and plankton and scraps and survived long enough for sqx to save them. she holds a palm to their cheek, and they stay still, tracking her every move. their skin is warm, speckled with bioluminescence.

“you seem hungry,” sqx croons. unlike her counterpart, her voice is alluring - tones as light as the wind, the voice of a siren calling sailors to dash themselves upon the rocks. she knows she's a spectacle in the dark, shining with pearls in her hair and stars in her eyes. a vision. “i can help with that.”

sqx reaches her hand out boldly, and hx shakes it. their hand dwarfs hers, gigantic, alabaster white to the brightly-speckled scales trailing sqx’s arm.

and so sqx - small as she is - curls herself into hx’s hair, the crook of their neck - a bright, multicoloured warning sign. a flashing little kaleidoscope, lovingly braiding bones and shell fragments into the hair of her lover.

she’s bright, and coloured, and deadly poisonous. she was never going to be eaten. she cheats death time and time again, and if she dies, she would take hx down with her.

if you see a beautiful, alluring mermaid, with shining bright colours on her alabaster tail and pearls braided into her hair, swim away. there are needle-sharp teeth lurking just behind her.

~fin

#my writing #crossposted from twitter #tgcf #beefleaf #lesbian beefleaf #wlw beefleaf #sqx #shi qingxuan #hx #he xuan #nb hx #transfemme sqx #anyway i want them to be toxic gfs #mermaids #tgcf fic #beefleaf fic #my fic #bflf

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shenyaanigans · 1 year

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imagine being told you can have the one thing you've always dreamed of, save your home, if you complete 1 mission: find vash the stampede & bring him to july. to millions knives.

you know where you're leading him to—what you're leading him to. you don't care. you take the deal.

imagine meeting him, the pitiful fool. the beloved little brother of millions knives, soft in every way—touch, color, heart. he bleeds for so much. too much. someone like him should not be alive. (someone like him doesn't want to be alive)

now your dream rests upon his survival.

imagine telling him you're an undertaker. it isn't wrong. vash the stampede was dead the moment millions knives called for him. there's nothing you can do except make sure he gets to hades's hands in one piece. you'd ask forgiveness, but willful sinners will never be forgiven.

imagine he tells you you're kind. imagine he looks upon your face and smiles. imagine he tells you you could never be bad: he can see it in your eyes. imagine how it must feel, to be acknowledged by the brother of god. does it hurt? does it make you angry?

imagine how it is to watch him bleed himself dry. imagine how it is to watch him make promise after promise, to break them, to watch him crumble to pieces beneath the weight of his own guilt. imagine what it is like to see a mirror. to be reminded of the cross you bear.

imagine how it is to protect him. to hold him close. to be forced to choose between your mission to free the orphanage, and your love for your own little brother. imagine how it is to watch him, time and time again, ensure you never have to make that choice by staying alive.

imagine how it is to fall in love with him.

imagine how it is to bring him all the way to july, to protect him, to heal him, to love him, and then to walk him to his final destination: death. imagine how it is to hear him thank you for it with a smile.

imagine how it is to know you've sealed his fate with a kiss.

#trigun #trigun stampede #trigun stampede episode 10 #nicholas d. wolfwood #vashwood #kat writes #crossposted from twitter #sorry i'm like losing it about wolfwood right now #i'm just going bananas. apeshit.

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asideoftrashplease · 1 year

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A reminder to those going "WWX gave up so much for JC and JC still chose his sect over WWX"

"JC chose preserving YMJ over WWX" is a single act. But the truth is that he was choosing WWX over his sect CONSTANTLY for years before that.

He chose WWX over YMJ when he got his core destroyed saving WWX. When he chose to save WWX, he chose WWX's life over his own life, his sect, his parent's legacy, and the WEIGHT of his ENTIRE lineage resting on him alone. His parents JUST DIED to make sure he lived to continue the bloodline and to bring back YMJ. He chose WWX over YMJ when people started shit talking WWX about not carrying his sword and the demonic cultivation, and he continued to stand by WWX with little more than a "carry your sword next time". How many times did he hear people saying that WWX was a black mark on YMJ, and he refused to cast WWX out or to even CENSURE him in front of an audience. Even when he's BOILING on the inside because WWX broke the Wen remnants out without telling him first, he defends WWX against other people, and stands up for WWX's cause, even when he has difficulty believing in it himself. He sticks his neck out, as the youngest sect leader who people still see as a child, speaking against his elders -- JGS, NMJ, LQR, and EVERYONE ELSE, to explain WWX's actions in breaking out the Wens. Even when he's FURIOUS and HURT that WWX did all this without (from his POV) any care for JC, the sect, and the hard spot he's now in.

JC chose WWX for years and years and years. "JC chose his sect and position over WWX" was a single act. But for years before that, he was making the continuous and repeated decision to choose WWX over his own position, pride, reputation, and sect.

From his POV, it felt like he was choosing WWX over and over and OVER again, and WWX could never be bothered to choose him even ONCE in return. And that's the crux of the betrayal, and why he eventually turned on WWX. It was: "I would have died for you. I DIED FOR YOU. I was tortured and mutilated and burnt. I defended you and stuck my neck out for you. I put myself and YMJ in the line of fire for years."

"And you don't give a shit about me."

And the tragedy is that WE KNOW THAT ISN'T TRUE. We know that WWX is not carrying his sword not because he doesn't care about what others think, and not because he doesn't care that they are giving YMJ and JC a hard time because of it. It's because he lost his core and can't fight back if he's challenged to a duel.

We know that he broke out the Wen remnants largely because he owes WN and WQ a HUGE life debt, huger than the one he actually tells JC about (i.e. they helped us get back JFM and YZY's bodies). He owes them a life debt for restoring JC's core.

But JC doesn't know that.

And so, the crux of the betrayal is "I chose you for years and years but you never chose me even once." I believe those were the underlying feelings behind JC leading the siege: betrayal, hurt, and misunderstandings.

#the opposite of love is not hate #it's indifference #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng shuangjie #twin prides of yunmeng #mdzs #meta #crossposted from twitter

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jacebeleren · 1 year

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thinking abt gideon and liliana again and

i will NEVER stop saying that gideon dying in WAR was a terrible direction/ending for his arc and that we were extremely robbed of amazing character development for both him and liliana because of it. they had a lot to learn from each other and now theyre never gonna have that..

if WAR had gone down exactly the same but without gideon dying, they wouldve actually had a chance to unpack why they both thought choosing to die was the right choice for themself but wrong for the other.

its the way they were both people who put on acts to cover their self-destructive tendencies but were uniquely immune to each others bullshit!! lilianas manipulation didnt work on gideon and his indestructible hero act didnt work on her. they could see right through each other.

they saw each other hurting and they saw value in the others life that they didnt see in their own because they were blinded by self hatred. by unpacking this theyd get to teach each other they both deserve to live, not only for their loved ones but because their lives have inherent value

#crossposted from twitter #IM HAVING THOUGHTS #gideon jura #liliana vess #mtg #gwunky

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azunshi · 7 months

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need an au of king of the fae bingge and mortal shen yuan. just shen yuan unwittingly wifebeaming bingge without realizing who he is and thinking that thats the end of that handsome stranger he met in the woods only to wake up one day to find that there are faeries outside his house announcing that theyre here to escort him to his new home in the court of their king and he's like "... what king ... what new home ... what the fuck is going on .... why are yall trying to dress me up pretty for this fae king who the fuck is he"

shen yuan being nervous once he finds out that bingge wants him as his wife bc "... should i break it to him that im a man or does he want to find out himself? bc i think he really /should/ know that im, yknow, a man to avoid any disappointment on the wedding night?"

he tells bingge the truth while the king is courting him and, to his shock, bingge's reaction is "... and why should that deter me from taking you as my bride?"

shen yuan being bewildered that bingge stubbornly wants him when he has so many other beauties in the court. "my lord, you're spoiled for choice here! look at all these lovely faerie ladies around you!! don't you think they'd make better, more fitting, partners?" he says, gesturing at them but he turns to find that bingge's eyes are on him, and only him

"the only one i'll ever need is you, my beloved."

also smth unhinged and horny thing that i just wanted to add under the cut but

i think it'd be funny if shen yuan accidentally wifebeams the entire faerie court too and now EVERYONE wants to fuck him also they should have a faerie orgy where shen yuan is the court's hole. he gets his holes stuffed with faerie cream bc thats what he deserves

#svsss #shen yuan #luo binghe #luo bingge #binggeyuan #bingyuan #azu's au ideas #crossposted from twitter

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