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#demonic cultivation
doufudanshi · 23 days
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ON GHOSTS AND DEMONS: Wei Wuxian's "demonic" cultivation?
There are a few big misconceptions I have repeatedly seen in English-speaking fandom about things that are fundamental to the story of MDZS. One of them is this—
Wei Wuxian is not a demonic cultivator.
To prove this, let's take a deep dive into the original Chinese text of MDZS.
(Adapted from my original gdoc posted on Twitter on May 27, 2022. All translations my own unless otherwise stated.)
Demon vs. ghost
Let's start from the very basics. In addition to orthodox cultivation using spiritual energy and a golden core, there are two other forms of cultivation that are mentioned in the novel:
魔道 (mó dào), or “demon cultivation/path.”
鬼道 (guǐ dào), or “ghost cultivation/path.”
To be clear, 魔 mo "demons" and 鬼 gui "ghosts" (and thus their respective cultivation/paths) are not interchangeable because of the in-universe worldbuilding within MDZS. Using the characters in the term 妖魔鬼怪 "monsters," MXTX created four distinct categories of beings, each of which has a strict definition in the novel. From chapter 4 (jjwxc ch 13):
妖者非人之活物所化; 魔者生人所化; 鬼者死者所化; 怪者非人之死物所化。 Yāo (妖) are transformed from non-human living beings; mó (魔) are transformed from living people; guǐ (鬼) are transformed from the deceased; guài (怪) are transformed from non-human dead beings.
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And of course, WWX hoards all the ghost-type pokemon monsters at the Phoenix Mountain tournament, and he only exerts control over corpses, spirits, and the like (aka people who have already died). (As opposed to Xue Yang, who appears to have been actively trying to make 魔 "demons" out of living people with those "living corpses" of his, perhaps.) (And, ironically, in order to avoid showing necromancy / zombies on screen, CQL technically does show WWX practicing demon cultivation because everyone is "supposedly alive" even when they're corpses? Which is, funnily enough, far worse morally in the MDZS universe, lol.)
So, intuitively at least, we know that WWX must be practicing ghost cultivation—now let's look at some concrete examples from the book.
Running the numbers
1) 魔道 (mó dào) means “demon cultivation.” As such, it must use living humans.
魔道 appears one (1) time in the novel.
Yes, once. The only time it appears is in the term 魔道祖师 modao zushi, or the namesake of the novel, in chapter 2. This is a title the general public has given him through rumors:
魏无羡好歹也被人叫了这么多年无上邪尊啦、魔道祖师啦之类的称号,这种一看就知道不是什么好东西的阵法,他自然了如指掌。 Wei Wuxian wasn’t called titles like “The Evil Overlord,” “The Founder of Demon Cultivation,” and so on over the years by others for nothing—he knew these sorts of obviously shady formations like the back of his hand.
2) 鬼道 (guǐ dào) means “ghost cultivation.” As such, it must use dead humans. 
鬼道 appears 12 times in the novel.
Here is the first instance that 鬼道 appears, which I believe is the first time Wei Wuxian's method of cultivation is properly introduced. From chapter 3 (jjwxc ch 8):
蓝忘机 […] 对魏无羡修鬼道一事极不认可。 Lan Wangji […] had never approved of the fact that Wei Wuxian practiced ghost cultivation.
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Here's another quote from chapter 15 (jjwxc ch 71) for funsies:
蓝忘机看着他,似乎一眼就看出他只是随口敷衍,吸了一口气,道:“魏婴。” Lan Wangji looked at him as if he saw through his half-hearted bluff. He took in a breath, then said, “Wei Ying.” 他执拗地道:“鬼道损身,损心性。” He stubbornly continued, “Ghost cultivation harms one’s body, and harms one’s nature.”
3) 邪魔歪道 (xiemowaidao) means heretical path/immoral methods/evil practices/underhanded means/etc—e.g., lying, cheating, stealing, bribery, and so on.
It appears ~24 times in the novel.
I mention this last term because it is often used to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation, but as a pejorative. Every instance of 邪魔歪道 is said by or to quote someone looking down upon Wei Wuxian’s cultivation (Jin Zixun, Jin Ling, etc.) and referring to it derogatorily, whereas every instance of 鬼道 guidao/ghost dao is said by someone discussing it neutrally and/or factually (Lan Jingyi, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian himself, random cultivators at discussion conferences, the narration, etc.). Here is a pertinent example with Jin Ling (derogatory) and Lan Jingyi (neutral) in chapter 9 (jjwxc ch 43):
金凌怒道:“是在谈论薛洋,我说的不对吗?薛洋干了什么?他是个禽兽不如的人渣,魏婴比他更让人恶心!什么叫‘不能一概而论’?这种邪魔歪道留在世上就是祸害,就是该统统都杀光,死光,灭绝!” “We are discussing Xue Yang,” Jin Ling said angrily. “Am I wrong? What did Xue Yang do? He’s scum that’s lower than a beast, and Wei Ying is even more disgusting than him! What do you mean ‘don’t make sweeping generalizations?’ As long as those practicing this kind of demoniac, heretical path are alive, they’ll continue to bring disaster. We should slaughter all of them, kill all of them, annihilate them once and for all!” 温宁动了动,魏无羡摆手示意他静止。只听蓝景仪也加入了,嚷道:“你发这么大火干什么?思追又没说魏无羡不该杀,他只是说修鬼道的也不一定全都是薛洋这种人,你有必要乱摔东西吗?那个我还没吃呢……” Wen Ning shuffled around. Wei Wuxian gestured at him to stay still, only to hear Lan Jingyi also cut in loudly, “Why are you getting so riled up? It’s not like Sizhui said Wei Wuxian shouldn’t have been killed. All he said was that people who practice ghost cultivation aren’t necessarily all like Xue Yang. Do you have to go around breaking things? I didn’t even get to eat any of that yet…”
Tl;dr—Wei Wuxian does not 修魔道 practice demon cultivation. When Wei Wuxian’s craft is discussed in a neutral and factual manner, it is referred to as 鬼道 ghost dao. 
In fact, Wei Wuxian’s imitators are also referred to explicitly as 鬼道修士 ghost cultivators.
魏无羡早就听说过,这些年来江澄到处抓疑似夺舍重生的鬼道修士,把这些人通通押回莲花坞严刑拷打。 Wei Wuxian had heard a while back that over the past few years, Jiang Cheng had gone around snatching any ghost cultivator suspected of being possessed or reborn, detaining them in Lotus Pier to interrogate them using torture.
So why the confusion?
Of course, there is the matter of the novel's title, which I will get into in a second. But the real issue is a matter of translation.
The idea that WWX uses "demonic cultivation" is a misconception in English-speaking fandom due to issues with the translation of terminology. Of note, EXR actually did translate 鬼道 guidao as "ghostly path" most of the time, though there were at least 3 instances of "demonic" and 1 instance of "dark," especially regarding the first few.
However, this misconception was perpetuated (and arguably worsened) by 7S's official translation, which not only mistranslated additional terms as "demonic cultivation/path" (at least in book 1), but also consistently mistranslated every instance of 鬼道 as "demonic cultivation/path."
So why is this book called 魔道祖师, commonly translated as "Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation?"
One possibility is one posed in Chinese-language meta online, which often cites that WWX himself is a sort of 魔 demon. While this may be true—after all, he can hear the voices of the dead—it doesn't quite explain the fact that the title sets him up to be the 祖师 or "founder."
My take is that this novel is very much concerned with hearsay vs. truth. This is one of the many monikers WWX is given by the public, who collectively view him as evil. (Also of note is that the non-cultivator public is not aware of all the nuances that cultivators learn re: distinctions between the 妖魔鬼怪 monsters.) In the quote from earlier, note that the first title we're given is actually 无上邪尊 “The Evil Overlord,” then 魔道祖师 "The Founder of Demon Cultivation." Like, what can that be other than MXTX telling us, "please take both of these with a HUGE grain of salt, lol."
(And not only the title, but the very first line—"魏无羡死了。" / "Wei Wuxian is dead."—is a lie.)
I think the title is genius, honestly. It intentionally makes readers come into the novel with preconceived notions that Wei Wuxian practices 魔道 demon cultivation and evil techniques—just like the public in the novel. What better way to tell a story warning about the dangers of how easy it is to fall for misinformation and jump to incorrect conclusions?
(Though, in our case, perhaps it worked a little too well.)
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esoteric-oracle · 8 months
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Y'all, friendly reminder that Wei Wuxian was not actually a demonic cultivator. I honestly found it shocking how prevalent the misconception that he uses demonic cultivation is, and how casually people throw the term around. His title as “Mo Dao Zu Shi” is intentionally misleading, as Wei Wuxian himself states many times in the novel that he does guidao  - the Ghost path.
This fact is probably more obvious to those who've read more xianxia novels (especially for Chinese readers, whom MDZS was geared towards), where demonic cultivation is a pretty common trope. Classically, “demonic cultivation” involves actual demonic actions, (ie. eating another cultivator’s golden core) - and MXTX deliberately used a subversion of that trope. Demonic cultivation in MDZS would require demons - something heavily lampshaded when Lan Qiren asks Wei Wuxian the difference between yao, mo, gui, and guai in the Cloud Recesses Study Arc. MXTX literally spoonfed the difference between demonic and ghost cultivation to readers in this scene, but I still see people perpetuating the belief that he was an actual demonic cultivator.
Demons come from living humans, so in the context of MDZS, the only true demonic cultivator we saw was Xue Yang, who use living corpses. Wei Wuxian only ever used the dead and resentful ghosts to do his bidding. The title of MDZS is a deliberate misnomer meant to act as commentary on how easily wrongful rumours and slanders spread, especially given how many criticisms tossed Wei Wuxian's way weren't even accurate - and somehow, 95% of readers fell for the same trap.
It's even worse how the official 7Seas translation perpetuates this misconception, by using "demonic" and modao to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation when he explicitly refers to his cultivation as guidao in the ExR translations and original text.
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Birth of the Yiling Patriarch
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scrivenger-grimgar · 1 month
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MDZS headcanon time! WWX’s guidao songs all have names, just like lan music!
[Settling] listening to the spirits and consoling them, offering kindness and compassion to let them calm (its the guidao equivalent to [Calming], ie “putting a toddler in time out until they behave properly”).
[Catharsis] asking or directing spirits to fight for the player, to vent their frustration in a controlled setting.
[Agitation] stirring up residual or ambient yin qi for use, creating an oppressive atmosphere.
[Askance] thinking specific questions allow for spirits to come forward and give relevant information.
[Guiding] mentally marking an individual or set of individuals to be attacked/targeted.
[Locative] asking spirit to look for a person, place, or thing.
[Agony] directing spirits to mentally torment targets.
[Distillation] to cast off smaller grievances and isolate large grievances.
[Mischief] to play subtle tricks on targets, destroying objects, disturbing order, and hexing things.
[Awakening] mass corpse controlling song.
[Calling] to guide a spirit to possess a physical object, like ceramic dolls, corpses, paper men, or puppets.
[Invitation] to invite a spiritual cognition to inhabit a compatible corpse.
[Respite] telling spirits to not harm.
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bokvshou · 9 months
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I don't know why people are so fucking attached to that rumor of jc hunting down the other demonic cultivators for all those years after wwx died.
the novel to begin with teaches you not to go around believing people's rumors so easily, and secondly... why do they consider it a bad thing? do I have to remind you that demonic cultivation was GENUINELY a terrible thing? it destroyed the cultivator's soul and mind (literally destroyed wwx slowly), it was a dangerous weapon, and it was super disrespectful to the dead (which, by the way, is serious business in China).
I feel like... people defend this because it was an important part of wei wuxian's character, but they fail to see one important detail:
the fact that wwx used it with intentions of doing good things means NOTHING, much less it should be a sufficient factor to assume everyone else who tries it will be the same. especially since people who started to idolize the patriarch were following the bad rumors about him, and hello!? not one of those rumors were positive! everyone had the dumb idea that wwx was a terrible monster!
why would you come to the conclusion that the following demonic cultivators are not just bad people believing the false rumors that wwx was a heartless monster? those people wanted to be a new big scary patriarch, they didn't care about wei wuxian as a person at all.
so, in what way is it bad that there's someone preventing some idiots from going and trying to do evil shit against the clans using such a dangerous and unstable method?
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whumpbby · 7 months
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You ever think how Demonic Cultivation changed the world the characters live in?
Like, pre-Wei Wuxian, the main job of the cultivators was to cull demons, exorcise ghosts and lay corpses to rest. They weren't warriors who went to war with people, they weren't law-makers, they were just guys that dealth with supernatural when asked to and otherwise hung around their sects to better their skills. They were Witchers, basically.
They had balls of steel to deal with the scary shit, but they were also ment to be compassionate and gracious, and, well, classy. Their fighting skills were keen to stay alive in the face of a monster/ghost, not to fight with humans.
Then Wen Ruohan happened and suddenly, they were at war where they had to fight and kill people. People like them. Ignore the resentment building out of all that fighting, because they had no time or opportunity to deal with all of it when lives were at stake. That had to fuck up a whole generation so badly.
(Like, all life you train as a judo trainer, helping people learn the moves and teaching classes for all ages - and then one day you're espected to pick up weapons and start killing people who decided to murder you. And after it's all done you're expected to just go back to the dojo and carry on with the classes as normal. Christ Almighty.)
And then, then, the war has ended, and things go back to normal.
Except they don't. Because now there's a group of people that dabble in Demonic Cultivation, keep losing their minds and causing chaos and death around them. A guy left some notes in a cave and it's just gonna be like that now apparently.
Now the cultivators have to be prepared for a possibility that when they go out to fight corpses and lay ghosts to rest, there may be a living person behind it all they will have to disable. And you don't know how far gone that person is, you don't know what they're willing to do. You know what to do with ghosts and demons and monsters, that's easy, but people? There's no spell that can tell you what a person wants from using evil powers, no magical tune to make them speak. No way to send them off into afterlife and clock out for the day - now you have to deal with them. How do you deal with them? They're not a cursed vase, you can't just seal them for another 100 years in a room somewhere. You put them into jail? You don't have jails! You never had jails! Local muggle magistrate has jails, but for a demonic cultivator that's really not a problem.
You need a whole new structure to deal with these people.
No wonder Jiang Cheng has a reputation of a man you don't fuck with.
He's walking out there, every time demonic cultivators are about, and hunting people. Time and time again, he hunts down and disables people. Does he kill them? Does he torture them for info? Does he maim them and let's them go? Who the fuck knows? All they know is that he hunts people and isn't shy to admit it. All they know is that Sandu Sengshou goes out there and you don't have to worry about that DC, they stop being a problem.
No one wants DCs to hang around their land, but this man just goes after them like it's his job.
And it kinda is - kinda has to be someone's job at this point. Because demonic cultivators became a thing and don't seem to be dying out, so now someone has to keep hunting them down or we're gonna have another Yiling Laozu on our hands and what then, huh?
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nightdreamerr · 22 days
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well, I finished my first multi-chapter fic (somehow ended up being almost 75k) IM SO PROUD OF MYSELF LIKE DAMN I DID THAT SHIT !! :D
would love it ya checked it out!
After they go their separate ways on the mountain, a ten-thousand-year-old demon critically injures Lan Wangji. Wei Wuxian races to Cloud Recesses and has to save him. Upon realizing the threats the demon possesses, they ask the Clans to form an alliance to kill the demon. A new Sect agrees with them... the new Sect from Nightless City.
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batattack409 · 1 year
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I know in the drama and animated show its not shown, but in the book, when Wei Wuxian comes back after he died, if low level corpses see him they run or just… drop (dropping especially if he tries to command them). And i think we as a fandom need to use that for comedic purposes because like. The potential
Like some of the Lan juniors are practicing fighting corpses that were captured, and Wei Wuxian wants to come see how everyone is doing and offer tips. But the second he shows up and is like “Hi!!” The corpses start trying to escape or just drop down, unmoving. And the little Lans are all like “Senior Wei! Not again! This is why we dont invite you to this kind of training” then Wei Wuxian sulks off to go cry to Lan Wanji about how the juniors all hate him.
Idk i just think there is real potential here
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I could see Jiang Cheng taking in demonic cultivators and saving them, not out of the goodness of his heart, but out of spite.
Like every time he convinces someone to stop their demonic cultivation, he cackles, and says "Take that Wei Wuxian! Point 1 for me and point ???? for you. There's one less person being piece-of-shit demonic cultivator like you." with the added bonus of now having an additional cultivator in his ranks.
and then we get the angst of "if i can save these people, why couldn't i save you?"
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joyfuls-world · 4 months
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I don't really like fics, where the revelation of wwx not having a golden core when he created demonic cultivation fixes everything. Like, it doesn't really matter? I belive he would have created it anyway, when wc pushed him into bm.
And i don't like fics, where sunshot c. wins the war without wwx cultivation either. It's called grand master of demonic cultivation for a reason, right?
When i am on the subject, anyone have a rec on good long Fic?
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lyselkatz · 8 months
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Xue Youliú 薛幽流
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Character notes by @howling-harpy :
Her courtesy name 幽流 YouLiú means a serene underworld stream.
Her given name Liàn 楝 means melia acedarach, commonly known as chinaberry tree. It has toxic flowers and fruits, and is used to repel insects.
She is the fourth daughter of a family that's profession is pottery making. She wanted to lead a different, extraordinary life instead.
She was adopted to the Xue clan when she was six. She is the middle one of the three martial siblings.
She is a caring, intuitive and strong-willed person, who always speaks her mind.
She reads the moods and emotions of others easily, but also tends to affect the people with the fluctuations of her own without meaning to. No one's so far figured out if this is a curse or not though.
She is very good at handling and pacifying resentful spirits. As such, she has attended the most funerals.
She grows easily bored with tasks that are tedious and require attention to small details or sitting still.
She is the best singer of the clan.
She is a romantic, but very unlucky in love.
She's taller than Yáo and keeps reminding him about it.
Her weapon is a ropedart.
Her favourite animals are spiders and dragonflies.
Her favourite food is grilled meat.
For additional notes and general CQL feelings: @journey-to-tiger-mountain
...☕?/commission
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Lán FúLóng 藍伏龍
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The current leader of the Lan clan and the oldest of the current ruling generation
His courtesy name 伏龍 FúLóng means crouching dragon. This is a reference to the most accomplished strategist of the Han dynasty era, Zhuge Liang, who is also played by Takeshi Kaneshiro (pictured above) in the movie Red Cliff
His title is 太寧君 TàiNíng Jun, meaning peace under the sky
His given name is 明 Míng, meaning bright
He is a direct descendant of Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, who adopted several children during their mortal lives
His disposition is very calm and serene, but driven by academic curiosity. He especially is very open-minded towards demonic cultivation, and not only because of his heritage
He's widely respected as a very accomplished swordsman, but his true calling is teaching
He upholds the tradition of keeping rabbits in the Cloud Recesses
He and Lan Fengchuan are childhood friends. He finds her ambition and nerve inspiring
He has a sweet tooth but doesn't indulge, unless it's a special day such as a festival, and even then only a little. When Lan Fengchuan brings him candy from the city, it's a gift from a friend and thus different
From the fanfic The Tale of Tiger Mountain
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wangxianficrecs · 11 months
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💙 Regrets by antebunny
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💙 Regrets
by antebunny
G, 37k, Wangxian
Summary: When Wei Wuxian finds himself alone in Nightless City, enemy of the entire world, Lan Wangji…accidentally stabs him. Then he and Lan Wangji open their eyes to find themselves on a rooftop four years in the past, with a chance to fix their biggest regrets.
Kay's comments: Ah, this one is definitely one of my favourite time-travel fix-its! It's wonderfully angsty, full of pain and yet, it's a fix-it and all works out in the end! In which Lan Wangji kills Wei Wuxian at Nightless City by accident (but Wei Wuxian, of course, doesn't know it's an accident) and then, both of them get thrown back into the past, to the Cloud Recesses lecture days and now they just have to deal with it. It being, Wei Wuxian still being in love with Lan Wangji, despite thinking that he murdered him and is now apparently working against him again and Lan Wangji having to live with having killed Wei Wuxian by accident and failing spectacularly at communicating. I just love how Wangxian are portrayed in this and I love our genius Wei Wuxian especially, who's not faulted for not understanding Lan Wangji's broody silences. Also, the way this story is written is simply stunning.
Excerpt: If he uses these and his current stack of fire prevention talismans, the Cloud Recesses doesn’t have to burn at all. He looks up, and Wei Ying is still there, hovering uncomfortably in the corner of the room. “I didn’t use demonic cultivation at all,” Wei Ying assures him, as if that was anywhere on Lan Wangji’s list of concerns when it came to Wei Ying. “They’re just regular…I mean, I invented them, but–I just thought you could use them, if Wen Xu tries to burn down the Library…again.” He trails off, looking more and more unnerved by Lan Wangji’s continued silent staring. Lan Wangji knows that people have a tendency to be unnerved by the way he can simply stare at them in a way his brother once described as “intense.” But Wei Ying has never been one of them. Wei Ying never stopped bothering him despite Lan Wangji’s most intense glares. Wei Ying never seemed unnerved, never got scared, never left him. It is, Lan Wangji thinks, a tragic reversal of the first time Wei Ying climbed in through his window. Back then, he wanted him to go, but Wei Ying wouldn’t leave. Now, Lan Wangji wants him to stay, but Wei Ying wants to leave. Wei Ying looks afraid of him now, and Lan Wangji can’t stand it, can barely stand to believe that he is. Which is why despite all the thoughts raging in his head, all the things he wants to beg and plead and cry and assure Wei Ying, all that comes out of his mouth is; “Thank you.”
pov wei wuxian, pov lan wangji, canon divergence, time travel fix-it, temporary character death, miscommunication, misunderstandings, post-bloodpath of nightless city, cloud recesses study arc, angst with a happy ending, hurt/comfort, getting together, arguing, demonic cultivation, blood and injury, @antebunny
~*~
(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)
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Resurrection
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icyolive · 4 months
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"The demonic path is called such because it consumes human lives. But my family's sabres aren't after people—rather, they're after all nefarious beings such as resentful ghosts and belligerent spirits."
So by definition, WWX does not use demonic cultivation.
The Nie man-eating fortress uses the exact same solution WWX proposed in class! They're using the resentful spirits of dead criminals to fight the sabres, where WWX proposed using the resentful spirits of dead criminals* to fight the executioner's fierce corpse. At least in WWX's solution they got a little revenge out of the deal.
*assuming the executioner was executing criminals
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jknrtz · 1 year
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Twin Heroes of Yunmeng
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