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sleepingdeath-light · 10 months

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ideal type hcs ; disney princesses

requested by ; anonymous (12/06/22)

fandom(s) ; disney animated films

fandom masterlist(s) ; here

character(s) ; anna, ariel, aurora, belle, cinderella, elsa, jasmine, merida, moana, mulan, pocahontas, rapunzel, snow white, tiana

outline ; “Could you do a headcanons for the Disney princesses ideal types, and what they look for in a partner?”

warning(s) ; none, just fluff!

anna

anna would prioritise kindness and empathy in a partner above all else — someone who will stick their neck out to protect or help someone else without the expectation of a reward

someone who is capable on their own but who knows when to ask for help, and that isn’t too proud to admit their mistakes

someone who she can have fun with to escape the unending monotony and responsibility of royal life — but who will also stick by her side when the time comes to be serious

someone who loves her for who she is and not the money and status she represents

and bonus points if you get her big sister’s approval

ariel

ariel would pursue a partner who makes the effort to try and understand her — who will push through barriers (emotional, physical, linguistic) in order to make her feel heard and loved

someone who she can have fun with without being made to feel irresponsible or childish — who isn’t afraid to act foolish or silly with her

someone who is affectionate with her, who can match her need for physical touch and such without her needing to beg

someone who isn’t afraid to take risks and do dangerous things if it’s for something you love — be that her or one of your passions

someone who is open and honest with her, who doesn’t belittle or infantilise her — who includes her in the conversation rather than brushing over what she has to offer

a lover who is as in love with the world and with life as they are with her

aurora

aurora would want a partner who is, above anything else, kind — kind to others, kind to the world and kind to themself

someone who isn’t afraid to laugh at themselves but who will always lend a hand or an ear to those who need it

someone who is honest and genuine, but who knows when not to be blunt in what they’re saying — someone who thinks before acting

someone who doesn’t feel the need to rush through life, who can enjoy taking things slowly and take in the simple joys — thinks like freshly made bread and the grass between your toes

she’d want a partner who she could be briar rose with rather than someone who’d expect her to just be princess aurora

belle

belle would look for a partner who is always willing to learn and grow — to change and adapt to the world without getting stuck in their ways

someone who she can joke around with and make fun of without receiving anything but full reciprocation in return — someone who isn’t afraid to be the butt of a joke every now and then

someone who is honest and open, someone who is comfortable around her enough to be honest and who trusts her enough to be open — which she’d reciprocate in a heartbeat

someone who takes the time to get to know her mind rather than stopping at her face — who sees her as an equal and not just a future wife

someone who can be themselves around her and who she can be herself around without judgement or hesitation — just love and folly and conversation

cinderella

ella is the type who would look for a partner that she can be herself around — someone who loves her for all of her passions and eccentricities and that doesn’t expect her to be perfect

someone who appreciates and accepts her independence, never pushing her into any specific role, without forcing her back into the position of complete isolation she was in growing up

someone who can make her laugh but that won’t shy away from her when she’s upset — who accepts her in her entirety rather than only sticking around when she’s happy

someone who holds respect and empathy for everyone no matter their background or appearance — who would have treated her kindly even when she was a house servant

all in all, ella would want a partner who loves her for her and who she doesn’t feel the need to hide parts of herself around — someone who lets her come into her own as a person whilst the relationship progresses

elsa

elsa would want a partner who understands her — who takes the time to learn her boundaries and respects them without question, as she would for them in return

someone who gets her hesitance and isn’t afraid of her because of her gift — they don’t have to admire it or be in awe, just see it as a part of her

someone who doesn’t mind the cold and who won’t force her to stifle herself again

someone who loves her family (chosen and given) as much as they can — who adores anna, jokes with kristoff and who respects the legacy and memory of her parents

she’d want someone who she can have fun with but that isn’t opposed to discussing things that are serious when needed

jasmine

jasmine values a partner who is spontaneous but not in an actively dangerous way — like they enjoy adventure but not putting other people in harm’s way

someone who is fun and adventurous and who is eager and able to show her the world beyond the walls she grew up in

someone unlike all of the stuffy, pompous suitors that come filing in and out of the palace doors every day

someone who isn’t afraid to be unique and affectionate and silly and childish no matter the company

oh and someone who likes cats because raja is here to stay

merida

merida looks for a partner who is as independent as her and who isn’t going to expect her to be reliant on them

someone who is capable on their own and able to handle themselves if the worst happens — whether that’s a war or a loss in the family

someone who loves her family or at the very least makes the effort to get along with them

someone who isn’t afraid to argue and bicker, who doesn’t expect everything to be all roses and sunshine all of the time and bails when things start to not look so perfect

someone who has a good sense of humour and is able to match her wit and jokes without taking offense

but most of all: someone who is looking for a life partner to have fun with, not someone to be subservient to them

moana

moana would seek out a partner who is able to match her energy and mind — who she can talk to without limiting or censoring herself

someone who respects tradition and routine without abandoning or scorning any chance of change and growth — who will support her in bringing her village to a new age of exploration

someone who is willing to step outside of their comfort zone every now and then, but who is able to tell her when they have reached their limit — someone who can be honest with her and who she can be honest with in return

someone who she can bounce ideas off of and who will come back with new routes and theories and concepts that she can bring to the community for approval

she’d want someone who is their own person and respects her independence, but who she can come together with to become better in one way or another — a partner that encourages her growth, not one that hinders or stunts it

mulan

mulan would value a partner who isn’t afraid to be daring and step outside of their comfort zone — someone who balances routine/expectations and growth/adventure in a similar way to herself

someone who isn’t afraid to challenge her and themselves — who is willing to make mistakes and stumble without giving up entirely

someone who loves adventure and taking risks, but that can also enjoy the quieter and plainer aspects of domestic life — cups of tea, star gazing and reading

someone who loves her for her — not for the warrior nor the maiden but for the woman behind that legend

she’d also want someone who respects her and her family without being a complete doormat who is unwilling to speak for themselves — independence mixed with politeness

pocahontas

pocahontas would look for a partner who is willing to learn and grow and isn’t too caught up in themselves and the past to do so

someone who is willing to be patient and listen to the world around them in order to understand it — the water, the wild life, the wind

someone who won’t stifle her need for adventure and who will help her explore the world — travelling together to see more of the world with open minds and open hearts

someone who will stick with her through it all — protecting, listening, learning and growing as a couple and as individuals through the good and bad parts of life

someone who isn’t too proud to be kind or too stuck up to have fun and make mistakes — because that’s what life is about

rapunzel

rapunzel would appreciate a partner who is able to match her enthusiasm and passion for life — or, at the very least, someone who can understand it

someone who isn’t afraid to let their guard down and get their hands dirty — who is happy to let loose and have fun

someone who will listen to her without judgement and who will support her when she’s at her lowest — and that won’t turn her down when she tries to help

someone that doesn’t yell or lie, someone that approaches arguments clearly and honestly — who sees it as ‘us vs the problem’ and not ‘me vs you’

someone who is able to let themselves be silly and stupid and childish and not feel the need to be serious and sad all of the time — someone who is able to be their full self around her

really, she just wants someone to be herself around who won’t judge her for it

snow white

snow would probably find gentleness an attractive trait in a potential partner — that and a willingness to be kind without the expectation of receiving any reward for it

she’s a gentle soul and wouldn’t be compatible with someone who is volatile or combative — especially during disagreements where she tries to seek out a compromise and speak concisely (us vs problem) instead of raising her voice and trying to be right (me vs you)

someone who can let go of their ego when necessary and let themselves be wrong when they’re wrong — someone who is reflective enough to know when they’ve made a mistake

someone who loves animals or who at the very least treats them with empathy and tries to help out where they can

someone who is honest with her but not blunt — being open without being cruel

oh and someone who loves her cooking and baking as that’s how she shows her love

tiana

tiana would look for someone who isn’t afraid to get their hands dirty — who is willing to put in work to get what they want rather than just expecting everyone to do everything for them

she needs someone who is independent but that works well with others as well, a team player who doesn’t need to be told what to do in order to get things done

someone who will stick by her through the tough times — providing emotional support and labour when needed without judgement — instead of someone who will just lay low and only be with her during the good bits of life

someone who isn’t afraid to admit when they’re wrong and who isn’t too proud to be emotional and vulnerable — she needs honesty, really

or, in other words, she needs someone who understands and trusts her and that she can trust in return

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lingthusiasm · 10 days

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Lingthusiasm Episode 91: Scoping out the scope of scope

When you order a kebab and they ask you if you want everything on it, you might say yes. But you'd probably still be surprised if it came with say, chocolate, let alone a bicycle...even though chocolate and bicycles are technically part of "everything". That's because words like "everything" and "all" really mean something more like "everything typical in this situation". Or in linguistic terms, we say that their scope is ambiguous without context.

In this episode, your hosts Lauren Gawne and Gretchen McCulloch get enthusiastic about how we can think about ambiguity of meaning in terms of scope. We talk about how humour often relies on scope ambiguity, such as a cake with "Happy Birthday in red text" written on it (quotation scope ambiguity) and the viral bench plaque "In Memory of Nicole Campbell, who never saw a dog and didn't smile" (negation scope ambiguity). We also talk about how linguists collect fun examples of ambiguity going about their everyday lives, how gesture and intonation allow us to disambiguate most of the time, and using several scopes in one sentence for double plus ambiguity fun.

Read the transcript here.

Announcements:

In this month’s bonus episode we get enthusiastic about the forms that our thoughts take inside our heads! We talk about an academic paper from 2008 called "The phenomena of inner experience", and how their results differ from the 2023 Lingthusiasm listener survey questions on your mental pictures and inner voices. We also talk about more unnerving methodologies, like temporarily paralyzing people and then scanning their brains to see if the inner voice sections still light up (they do!).

Join us on Patreon now to get access to this and 80+ other bonus episodes. You’ll also get access to the Lingthusiasm Discord server where you can chat with other language nerds. Also: Join at the Ling-phabet tier and you'll get an exclusive “Lingthusiast – a person who’s enthusiastic about linguistics,” sticker! You can stick it on your laptop or your water bottle to encourage people to talk about linguistics with you. Members at the Ling-phabet tier also get their very own, hand-selected character of the International Phonetic Alphabet – or if you love another symbol from somewhere in Unicode, you can request that instead – and we put that with your name or username on our supporter Wall of Fame! Check out our Supporter Wall of Fame here, and become a Ling-phabet patron here!

Here are the links mentioned in the episode:

Wikipedia entry for Everything Bagel

'Shel Silverstein's hot dog and the domain of "everything"' post on Language Log

Wikipedia entry for 'Scop' (an oral poet)

'New publication: Reported evidentiality in Tibeto-Burman languages' post on Superlinguo

Wikipedia entry for Tom Swifty

'Bench in honour of Nicole Campbell, who never saw a dog and didn't smile' post on All Things Linguistic

WALS entry for Feature 144B: Position of negative words relative to beginning and end of clause and with respect to adjacency to verb

'A few notes on negative clauses, polarity items, and scope'

'I didn't ask you to kill him' Learning English post on sentence stress and meaning

'I didn't ask you to kill him' sentence stress example in action by @dheanasaur on TikTok (⚠︎warning, loud sound)

Non-manual Markers in ASL / NMM's

'The Impulse to Gesture: Where Language, Minds, and Bodies Intersect' by Simon Harrison

'Quantifier Scope Jokes' post on All Things Linguistic

'Caring for your baby since 1890' ambiguity post on All Things Linguistic

You can listen to this episode via Lingthusiasm.com, Soundcloud, RSS, Apple Podcasts/iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also download an mp3 via the Soundcloud page for offline listening.

To receive an email whenever a new episode drops, sign up for the Lingthusiasm mailing list.

You can help keep Lingthusiasm ad-free, get access to bonus content, and more perks by supporting us on Patreon.

Lingthusiasm is on Bluesky, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Mastodon, and Tumblr. Email us at contact [at] lingthusiasm [dot] com

Gretchen is on Bluesky as @GretchenMcC and blogs at All Things Linguistic.

Lauren is on Bluesky as @superlinguo and blogs at Superlinguo.

Lingthusiasm is created by Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne. Our senior producer is Claire Gawne, our production editor is Sarah Dopierala, our production assistant is Martha Tsutsui Billins, and our editorial assistant is Jon Kruk. Our music is ‘Ancient City’ by The Triangles. This episode of Lingthusiasm is made available under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike license (CC 4.0 BY-NC-SA).

#linguistics #language #lingthusiasm #episodes #podcast #podcasts #episode 91 #scope #ambiguity #scope ambiguity #linguist humour #SoundCloud

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superlinguo · 3 months

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Superlinguo 2023 in review

I spent 2023 on leave to hang out with a new tiny human. I still found time for some linguistics, including regular Lingthusiasm episodes and even some intermittent blogging. I also got to reuse all my linguist pregnancy announcement jokes.

Lingthusiasm

Lingthusiasm turned 7 this year! We celebrated with a dozen main episodes as well as our monthly bonus episodes for patrons. We had some help to get through the year while I was on leave with interviews with linguists from around the world, including Lingthusiasm team members Martha Tsutsi-Billins and Sara Dopierela.

We released our new Etymology isn't Destiny merch, which is available alongside merch for all kinds of linguists and language fans.

Main episodes

Where language names come from and why they change (transcript)

How kids learn language in Singapore - Interview with Woon Fei Ting (transcript)

Bringing stories to life in Auslan - Interview with Gabrielle Hodge (transcript)

Tone and Intonation? Tone and Intonation! (transcript)

Word Magic (transcript)

The verbs had been being helped by auxiliaries (transcript)

Frogs, pears, and more staples from linguistics example sentences (transcript)

How kids learn Q’anjob’al and other Mayan languages - Interview with Pedro Mateo Pedro (transcript)

Look, it’s deixis, a word for linguistic pointing! (transcript)

Ergativity delights us (transcript)

Revival, reggaeton, and rejecting unicorns - Basque interview with Itxaso Rodríguez-Ordóñez (transcript)

If I were an irrealis episode (transcript)

Bonus episodes

Parrots, art and what even is a word - deleted scenes from Kat Gupta, Lucy Maddox and Randall Munroe interviews

Singapore, New Zealand, and a favourite linguistics paper - 2023 Year Ahead Chat

When books speculate on the future of English

Neopronouns, gender-neutral vocab, and why linguistic gender even exists - Liveshow Q&A with Kirby Conrod

2022 Survey Results - kiki/bouba, synesthesia fomo, and pluralizing emoji

Linguistic jobs beyond academia

LingthusiASMR - The Harvard Sentences

How we make Lingthusiasm transcripts - Interview with Sarah Dopierala

Field Notes on linguistic fieldwork - Interview with Martha Tsutsui Billins

Postcards from linguistics summer camp

Linguistic Advice - Challenging grammar snobs, finding linguistic community, accents in singing, and more

Frak, smeg, and more swearing in fiction - Ex Urbe Ad Astra interview with Jo Walton and Ada Palmer

LingComm: 2023 conference

The 2023 LingComm conference happened in February, and was once again in the LingComm conference space in Gather Town. I enjoyed being on the planning committee that put together an amazing event that built on the inaugural conference in 2021. Stay tuned for 2024 lingcomm updates!

Top Superlinguo posts in 2022

This year was a chance to reflect on the decade since I graduated, and to articulate the important role my main supervisor had in shaping my career.

After wrapping up the linguistics jobs interview series last year, this year was a chance to share some aggregated resources from 8 years and 80 interviews.

I also got to read a couple of great linguistics books for kids, keep up to date with linguistics podcasts, share some of my favourite linguistics books and check in on some things happening online.

General posts and reviews

10 years of a PhD

Barb Kelly

Gender Variations for Person in Suit Levitating Emoji - Emoji Proposal

Linguistics and Language Podcasts (2023 update)

Language Books for Kids: Highly Irregular, Arika Okrent & Sean O'Neill

Linguistics books for kids: Once Upon a Word - a Word-origin Dictionary, Jess Zafarris

Linguistics Jobs resources

Linguistics Jobs Interviews - directory of posts and resources

Linguistics Jobs resource set

Superlinguo Linguist Job Interviews full list

Linguistics education and its application in the workplace: An analysis of interviews with linguistics graduates (new publication in Language)

Information and advice

hapax legomenon and automated email replies

Lingthusiasm guide to pop linguistics books

Hello Grambank! A new typological database of 2,467 language varieties

What we can accomplish in 30 years of lingcomm: Opening keynote of #LingComm23

Australian Linguistic Society’s Accredited Linguist program

Academic articles in 2023

Although I was on leave, things that I was working on earlier made it through to publication. I like that there was one paper on lingcomm, one on gesture (including emoji!) and one on the linguistics job interviews, it feels like a nice mix of some of my current interests. Just a pity there wasn't a Tibeto-Burman paper in there!

Gawne, L. & A. Cabraal. 2023. Linguistics education and its application in the workplace: an analysis of interviews with linguistics graduates. Language, 99(1), e35-e57. [doi][Superlinguo post]

Freestone, P., J. Kruk & L. Gawne. forthcoming. From Star Trek to The Hunger Games: emblem gestures in science fiction and their uptake in popular culture. Linguistic Vanguard, 9(3), 257-266. [doi][Superlinguo post]

Gawne, L., & McCulloch, G. (2023). ‘Communicating about linguistics using lingcomm-driven evidence: Lingthusiasm podcast as a case study’, Language and Linguistics Compass, 17/5: e12499. DOI: 10.1111/lnc3.12499 [doi][Superlinguo post]

The year ahead

I'll be back to work full time. I've found the low-key level of blogging I managed this year to be sustainable, so expect it to be business-as-usual here. Lingthusiasm will also continue with monthly main and bonus episodes, thanks to the patrons who support the show and ensure we have a team that can keep everything rolling while begin to take on more administrative responsibilities in my job.

I'm looking forward to sharing some things that are in the final stages of peer-review and copy editing, and I'm excited to be spinning up some new projects.

Browsing old Superlinguo content?

I have a welcome page on the blog that points you to aggregate posts, and series of posts I've done over the years, as well as themed collections of posts that have appeared on the blog in the last twelve years.

Previous years

Superlinguo 2022 in review

Superlinguo 2021 in review

Superlinguo 2020 in review

Superlinguo 2020 (2019 in review)

Superlinguo 2019 (2018 in review)

Superlinguo 2018 (2017 in review)

Superlinguo 2017 (2016 in review)

Superlinguo 2015 highlights

#linguistics #language #superlinguo #2023 #review

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himehikoshrine · 3 months

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The Central Nation of Kielce - a History

[I/D : Screenshot for Sissia of the Central Nation showing Levi, Adra, and Crowley on the wall. Crowley is saying "Hahaha! How have you been, little wall?! It’s like you’re a part of our origins!"]

Having now read through every route's game script of the Central Nation of Sissia, I figured I'd tried to put together all the Kielce lore across the different routes into one. If you want to read them yourself, you can do so either on the game menu if you've finished the game, or [here]. This will contain details unique to most of the routes, so technically, there are spoilers, but they are discussed entirely within the world of the play. I will edit in a few minor clarifying details with no route plot information from routes as I find them now that I'm going through things with a finer tooth comb. It will spoil some things that are in the stage script only epilogues too, so please read at least one of them before reading this, or you'll be really confused. Two, ideally, especially if the first one you picked was Crowley's.

Don't ask me why a rather big piece of character information, that is kind of a twist, is hidden within epilogues only on the stage script in the menu. We're nearly the full year into Havenna Lore drops, apparently this is just how Neji writes. (And given all the lore hidden in weird bonus material, also how Ishida and Towada write.)

The Nation of Arbine and the Republic of Quatra, which is to its east, were at war for 77 years. Many lives were lost on both sides, and there were plenty of children made orphans in the process. We know little about Quatra before the end of the war, but Levi describes it as having "warmth" and Crowley says it had a very strong culture in the arts, including song and dance. After Arbine wins the war, 20 years before Sissia joins the troupe, Arbine begins calling the 77-year-war the 'War of Joy.'

They force the people of Quatra into servitude, build a wall around the country, and mark them with a tattoo of a horse on their shin. The hostility gets so bad in the upper military ranks of Arbine, that they begin calling Quatra "the nameless country" or "the nameless servant country." The culture of Quatra is stamped out within the nation, possibly beyond simply forcing everyone into labor for the sake of Arbine, and anyone in Arbine who even discusses it with anything but scorn is suspected of treason.

Arbine is ruled by its "commander and king" (always said together like that) who has the surname "Arbine" like the nation he rules. His top advisor, confidant and strategist is Major Azur Hybird. The military elite make up the aristocracy of Arbine, and their positions are expected to be passed down.

Arbine is a strict military state, with border patrols and street patrols in addition to a standing military that citizens are quite acquainted with. They are able to freely interrogate and detain anyone, but murder seems to be considered a crime in Arbine, regardless of the nationality of the person killed, even, seemingly, for low ranking patrol officers. (We only have Crowley's potentially joking word here, though). The high ranks can order and carry out death sentences sans trial of any kind, of course.

The military aristocracy is also the high society of Arbine, and they attend parties and engage with what they consider 'high culture' including national dances - Arbine does have a national dance troupe.

Arbine's language is called "Arbine". It appears to be different than the language of Quatra or at least a different dialect, though one suspects they have some degree of mutual intelligibility. Carlo says the further east one goes in Arbine, the simpler the pronunciation of its language gets. Accents are shared to some extent in the border region, as well as words. Carlo says Arbine has 'a certain roundness' and that the first letter of Carlo is pronounced 'more elegantly' than Sissia's accent usually does.

Carlo illustrates the linguistic drift with the word Kielce - which is the Arbine term for Circus, a word used in Quatra. Carlo says no one but a historian or a suspected traitor would know that word these days, so maybe once it was also used in Arbine, or maybe a historian would merely be more familiar with the arts from Quatra.

So, 20 years ago, the war ends. As for the future members of Kielce at this time, Chance, at least, wasn't born yet.

Levi Caineman, who was born to Arbine parents, was orphaned by the war and was taken in across the then-wall-less border when he traveled there in search of food. Once the war ended, he was taken into an orphanage on the Arbine side of the wall, while his foster mother, a Quatra, was left behind it.

At some point, Levi will meet Crowley. Crowley is, though it's unclear who knows this but him, an illegitimate son of the 'commander and king' of Arbine, so his full name is, in fact, Crowley Arbine. It's never explicitly stated in the play if Crowley creates Kielce as a troupe or not, or the origin of its name "The Central Nation of--" but in the practice dialogue it is confirmed that Crowley and Levi are the founding members of the troupe.

As for when it was founded, Crowley considers the first Border Performance, which takes place ten years before the present of the play, and thus ten years after the end of the war "part of our origins." It is likely the name, too, partially a form of protest. Given the troupe's founders - an openly avowed revolutionary with a personal connection to the throne, and a fascination with Quatran arts, and an Arbine boy raised for a time by a Quatran foster mother, I'm sure this was very much part of their motivations.

Crowley is, after all, enthusiastically a traitor. (He maintains everyone in Kielce knows this, and no ones statements fully discredit that assertion in other routes. No one ever quite says the first performance WASN'T an act of rebellion or treason.)

Crowley says he's the one who brought Levi in and raised him up to be ringleader. At some point, Kielce, including Crowley and Levi, ends up performing at a party for military aristocrats. How this happened or how it went down, we don't know, other than apparently everyone was thoroughly amused. At this point, they aren't suspected of anything treasonous, but are considered 'low' entertainment.

In attendance is Major Azur Hybird's son, Adra Hybird. At this point, Adra has already been dancing for most of his life. It is unclear how old he is. But he decides that this is the kind of dancing he wants to do. He leaves the life of a Military Aristocrats son behind and runs away to join the circus -- Kielce.

(It is not implied Adra is younger than the other two - on Levi's route, Adra remarks that Levi has grown into quite the man, which, if anything, implies Adra may be a bit older than Levi.)

By the time of the first Border Performance, which is ten years before the present, Adra is a well established member of the troupe, enough that he is involved with choosing to do it. He seems to be one of the senior members in the troupe.

Fan Carlo Albus, on the other hand, is a newcomer to the troupe ten years ago. It seems she joined enough after Adra that she's talked about as another sort of 'generation' - when talking about Kielce's style being a talent showcase, Crowley says its more pronounced now that Carlo and Chance have joined.

Carlo watches the border performance from the side, not on the wall. Also watching that day is Isaac Bazmaz, an Arbine child from the border region who lives near the wall. He is watching with a friend of his. On Isaac's route this friend is explicitly Sissia, a girl from Quatra who he met through a crack in the wall. Isaac talks about the wall as having always been near his house, suggesting that he is under 20 years old, or at least, not much older. Chance Orlando, as stated, is under 20. He doesn't watch the border performance, but hears rumors about it as a kid in Arbine that later inspire him to join.

Crowley is one of the leads in the performance, which he also wrote. This is, to him, intentionally an act of rebellion and revolution. The fact that it doesn't overthrow the nation makes it kind of a failure in his book. Adra says his motivation is sort of to stick it to the military aristocracy and their backwards ideas, both about Quatra and discrimination and their authority and control in general. Adra is also quite annoyed at their elitism. Levi doesn't give an explicit reason for it the first time, but when asking to do it again, he mentions love of theater and love of freedom as absolute principles he leads Kielce by. One imagines his foster mother on the other side is a motivation, as well.

The performance is seen as treasonous and puts the entire troupe on a watch list. According to Major Azur, the 'commander and king' of Arbine has pushed to imprison everyone in the troupe since that day. (It is completely unclear if either the Major or even the 'commander and king' himself have any idea who Crowley is.) Every member who was around at the time tells Sissia that it was quite the controversy and ordeal, and caused a lot of trouble.

Isaac makes a promise to his friend to one day stand on the wall with Kielce together. Sissia, watching from the Quatra side, is already being forced into labor, despite seemingly being a child. Sissia dreams of one day standing on that stage, too. Both Isaac and Sissia will eventually follow that dream to Kielce.

It seems that despite the displeasure of the ruling elite, Kielce continues to operate and have many fans. Their popularity is seen both as a threat, and, one assumes, a bit protective, as it's quite clear that Arbine is aware of the precarity of it's absolute control.

Adra notes that even members of the military attend the shows. Not all the fans share their ideals, of course, and will report things to the authorities.

Kielce has a standing theater within Arbine, but their base seems to keep a very 'traveling circus' aesthetic. It is possible they are both a traveling company and one with a home base. It's unclear when this was built.

Chance and Isaac are recruited the same day by Crowley. Isaac says that if it weren't for Kielce, he'd 'still be working at a factory'. They are still considered relative newbies by Carlo by the time Sissia is recruited, but they seem to have been around long enough to be pretty established as staples of the troupe.

#sissia of the central nation #jack jeanne #jack jeanne meta #lore hunting #kielce #i told you i have kielce brain rot #yeah the characters are based on quartz and its a love letter to quartz but its not slacking on the worldbuilding or messaging #like the characters may feel less inspired since they're taken from their actors but damn if this play doesn't have a MESSAGE and LORE #if we get an isaac character poem for sou's next birthday i will be digging a grave #i have so many more thoughts to share but lets get the history down first #so many. thoughts.

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notquitedeadpod · 4 months

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You voice Neige as well??? Damn. I did not pick up on that.

But also Alfie struggling with French is so funny to me cause as a Canadian I forget that not everyone has a base knowledge of French lol

you didn't know I was Neige!? I take that as an extraordinarily high compliment, thank you!!

and yeah lmao, I have been learning French for years bc a professor of mine at uni once said 'French isn't really a foreign language' and I was so totally puzzled and irritated by this comment. this for some reason manifested in me attempting to learn French. i did also speak a bit of French as a kid from an obsession with this one specific kids 'learn French' book, which gave me a headstart i think. I get a lot of shit wrong still but I have enough of a grasp where I feel like I can make some little linguistic jokes in there. it's a lovely language to play with, with the bonus of the knowledge that l'académie française serait furieuse at the franglais I force Neige to speak in.

--- Eira xx

#eira speaks #not quite dead

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shadowywerewolf-main · 2 years

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idk if u take requests but like... the day u do ghiaccio general headcanons will be the day i will be able to finally rest easy 🙏

Hello dear! 👋

Ghiaccio Headcanons

(Personal Headcanons)

Will this anger ever dissipate?

⛸ Was reluctant to the idea of exposing his torso like the other members and almost froze Illuso to hypothermia. Risotto has banned anyone from putting up such discussions with him.

🧊 This reluctance as well as the fact that White Album is a body suit may indicate how he is punctual about and trusts himself (mostly) with regards to his security. Not being able to mix up with others often leads a person to create a shell around themselves.

⛸ No he isn't angry at all times and possess the ability to crack jokes and laugh.

🧊 Ghia has a habit of taking out his anger on the nearest stuff lying within his range.

⛸ You know how some people express sadness in form of anger. Ghiaccio is one of them. Whenever he feels as if tears might escape his eyes, he tosses his head backwards. He then proceeds to break the nearest object.

🧊 The fixation of linguistics is the result of people confusing him with their words. People being unclear with their words or saying something that has a different literal meaning and a different technical meaning is very confusing for some listeners. It is difficult for Ghiaccio to figure out if the next person is being sarcastic or if they actually mean what they say.

⛸ He believes in being straightforward and speaking one's mind out loud to avoid wasting time of speaker and the listener; given that he was made to grow up in an environment where he had to wait too long for answers or was constantly perplexed of what others said or instructed him.

🧊 His annoyance towards misspellings and mispronunciation of names of cities may indicate his immense patriotism and his orientation towards the more logical perspective of things.

⛸ Occassionally pulls up a Karen in public. Melone has to interfere.

🧊 I think he would like the company of a more patient partner who would not complicate things for him. Someone who would keep their cool and help him with his fits. His outbursts had his partners distance themselves from him in the past. Consistency and patience is something he'd look for before entering an official relationship. He wants someone who is fluent in silence and feels free to let their guard down around the people they trust (just assassin things you know).

⛸ Also someone who has proper skills in grammar and linguistics.

🧊 Tries not to completely manifest White Album over his body during missions if it is easy for him to deal with his targets without actually putting his Stand to display. Took the 'keep your Stand a secret for as long as possible' way too literally. White Album's visor has a refractive index equal to 1 with respect to air to avoid any distortion in visibility whatsoever.

⛸ Quick thinker. Sporty freak.

The way he handled his body gives the indications of him being involved in sporting activities in the past.

Sports such as surfing or horseriding (even gymnastics sometimes) involve unpredictable flow of events and forces the player to think quickly in such situations.

Some people go for a more fatal solution in the time of emergency (blood supports in Ghiaccio's case for instance).

Such sports also need a brilliant strength of lower body which probably went on to help Ghiaccio in skating.

🧊 He never misses the leg day lest he has to suffer any sort of cramps.

⛸ "WE ARE NOT HAVING A CAT!"

🧊 *ends up as the cat dad*

⛸ Master in using reverse psychology.

🧊 Ghiaccio infuriates his opponent. He knows what buttons are to be pushed to drive someone on the verge of anger and make them lose their sense of logic. Mockery and humiliation are added bonus.

⛸ Knows a little too much about water. White Album (Gently Weeps) can get the temperature of the environment close to absolute zero. Also, one can do wonders when they are aware of little things that are involved in their subject of concern. He has a master level knowledge of his ability and hence is very confident during missions. "Even roaring train engines, even the raging seas will come to a grinding halt at my command! None can defy my whims!"

🧊 His car is his babe. Passer bys discuss about how the dude driving the car must have bought it recently.

⛸ Uses the finest cleaning wipes for his spectacles.

🧊 Actually has little eyes. It's the magnifying power of the specs that makes the eyes look large.

⛸ Uses his spit while counting paper currency.

🧊 Will this anger ever dissipate? He has tried involving himself in anger management programs, but they do only a little good for him. Whenever it feels as if he has stabilized his rage, he starts getting flashbacks of all the events of his past that made him develop such issues.

⛸ Pokes the inside of his cheek with his tongue when he is concentrating on something.

🧊 Night drives. Listens to those '1900s songs playing in another room', lofi, alternative, indie, r&b and soul genres. He has numerous pen drives which he has labeled accordingly and stored in the dashboard compartment of his car.

⛸ Has a personal record of speeding tickets in the dashboard compartment of his car.

🧊 Parks the car wherever he feels like.

⛸ Fidgets a lot. Does that 'tip-top' thing you do with ballpoint pens.

🧊 The 'Cat' structure of White Album may indicate his flexible nature (physical level only), and his slightly 'cat-ish' personality.

⛸ Occasionally complicates even the simplest of things. Because of his anger, he sometimes amplifies the level of difficulty of any assignment or any given task. Risotto or Prosciutto have to interfere by yelling at him and ordering him to prompt a proper discussion to reach a conclusion. With slightly heated discussion, they do settle the things to a great extent.

⛸ Although he doesn't express his affection for the team on the outside, deep inside he is very fond of the family and would break the most difficult of the barriers for Squadra.

🧊 Sits on windowsills during late nights. Taps the glass pane to generate iced patterns. This made him wonder about what else he is capable of doing due to WA.

⛸ Outside the team, he is mostly quite, with a frown decorating his face.

🧊 He IS flirty. *Angrily smirks*

⛸ Detail oriented. He feels compelled to search up more information about anything he comes across.

🧊 One of those guys who can explain everything in depth. Knows about little and common things that we usually miss out.

#jjba #vento aureo #la squadra #la squadra di esecuzione #ghiaccio #jjba ghiaccio #ghiaccio headcanons #ask response #jojos bizarre adventure #jojo's bizarre adventure

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smolsleepyfox · 20 days

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1, 5, 10, 24 for the country ask game 😁

1. favourite place in your country?

Well we went hiking in the Nationalpark Eifel yesterday and that was pretty great, so I gotta say everything with hills and trees. Despite being so densely populated, Germany does have a lot of forests, especially in the south and I absolutely love it. In terms of big cities it's probably Cologne, decent public transport, tons of parks and museums, and of course our Cathedral (third tallest in the world!). Pretty good I'd say.

5. favourite song in your native language?

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10. most enjoyable swear word in your native language?

To be fair, most people know "Scheiße" and it really is a fun and universally helpful word. It gets interesting when people drive because then you hear fun expressions like "Armleuchter" (chandelier) and "Sausack" (pig sack?) for other drivers :D

Bonus fun fact: German license plates start with a letter combination for the district of registration. One letter districts are big cities like Cologne (K), Munich (M), and Berlin (B) but with two or three letters you can start making fun expressions like VIE (Viersen) -> Vollidiot in Eile (Massive idiots in a hurry) and SLS (Saarlouis) -> Saarländische Lenkradsau (Saarland steering wheel pig)

24. what other nation is joked about most often in your country?

I'd say we're pretty even all around with the neighbors, Germany does have a culture of making fun of the diverse dialects in the country though. Saarland gets a lot of the Alabama-type jokes because it's small and the dialect is seen as uncultured. Bavaria as a whole gets made fun of a lot also because they expect everyone to understand their dialect and pretend they're a sovereign state. Similar with Schwäbisch (also southern dialect). Most is in good fun though, it's cool we still have such linguistic diversity :)

Thank you for this ask, sorry I forgot for like three days xD

#ask foxy #foxy speaks #country ask

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odinspattern · 3 months

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What is Tav and Astrid's speech like? Do they have distinct accents? Or any other notable ways of speaking, like using particular phrases, slang, or terms of endearment?

Bonus question: What do their voices sound like?

So I have been thinking about this a lot, hence why this took me so long. Language in dnd and adjacent media facinates me as someone who has studied linguistics.

One if the best and worst things about it is that one is free to interpit what you want it to be. It can be daunting tbh.

Back when Tav was an Adventure Leauge character I was working on, I envisioned them having an US southern drawl, specifically Texan, because I thought it would be funny to imagine the Drow as having that. Their soceity is often portrayed so over the top and chaotically that what comes to mind is the expression; «Helt Texas.»

(For those who are not Norwegian, a common expression for something being over the top or chaotic, possibly insane is «Completely Texas.» Aka the joke.)

However, I have rethought this stance. Instead I have gone more classic. Dnd elves are often inspires by the elves of Lord of the Rings, and fun fact. Tolkien’s Elvish was inspired by the Karelian language, which is really cool.

Now I do not know Karelian, but I am learning Finnish, which is related. So yeah, I am claiming that the elves of Underdark speech sound Finnish, it developed diffrently in isolation and with both Svirfneblin and Duregar neighbours it took on some changes.

When it comes to expressions, they have this one that for the longest time took everyone completely by surprise, because they took one from their own language and translated it directly, and even Astarion and Shadowheart was like. What are you saying?

«This swings like a hook-horror.»

If they are impressed by you they might also claim that you have sisu.

As for Astrid. The dwarves are Norwegian, because this is my city now, and I do what I want. Also a lot of Dwarven names are Scandinavian in Origin, so I am claiming them. Miss me with those bad Scottish accents y’all are putting on them.

Fun linguistics fact about Norwegian. Did you know it is considered a Macro-language? It just means that it has many standardisations, both written and spoken.

I honestly considered giving her a Fredrikstad accent. Partly because it is considered the uglist Norwegian accent, but I found it very funny to imagine the scourge of the world speaking like she came out of Lange Flate Ballær

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Because many of you do not know what the Fredrikstad dialect sounds like, here is an example.

Another linguistics fact, that thick L sound is very specific to Eastern Norway and there is some Northern Norwegian dialects that have it, which may suggest it came from the East. It showed up in the 1300’s, and has barely moved since. It is also hotly debated as it started moving the last 20 years after standing still for centuries.

I could also have gone all Oslo on y’all, because I am proud of Oslo, it is my shit city, the jewel and the ass of Norway. we have three dialects (four if you include Kebabnorsk, which would also be funny. I am old enough to remember when media actually took note of it, I was in High School at the time when you could watch a program where they spoke it on NrK, I Even remember that they made a Midsummer Nights Dream performance where they spoke Kebabnorsk.)

I decided not yo go there, for several reasons. Fist off, the kebabnorsk that I know is older already, it is like many other languages changing. But mostly because if I did, I would have to decide what other languages would stand for Arabic, Turkish, Balkan languages and Somali just to name a few that has influenced Kebabnorsk irl.

Not to mention that I doubt that Astrid grew up quite that urban. Which also cancelled out Groruddøling. (And no way she would speak the dialect of Oslo Vest.)

Instead, I have chosen the Hallingdal dialect.

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Why?

Again, my city now. Also I am surrounded by it, so it makes sense to me to use it.

She uses the Word krimsjuk, which is specific to where I am located, it means to have a cold. Also pøse, which means bag, and she does love a good vaffel og svall.

#Astrid the drow #Astrid Dawnbringer #linguistics #bg3 #baldurs gate 3 #my ocs #mostly me ranting linguistics #long post

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lingthusiasm · 3 months

Text

Transcript Episode 88: No such thing as the oldest language

This is a transcript for Lingthusiasm episode ‘No such thing as the oldest language. It’s been lightly edited for readability. Listen to the episode here or wherever you get your podcasts. Links to studies mentioned and further reading can be found on the episode show notes page.

[Music]

Gretchen: Welcome to Lingthusiasm, a podcast that’s enthusiastic about linguistics! I’m Gretchen McCulloch.

Lauren: I’m Lauren Gawne. Today, we’re getting enthusiastic about old languages. But first, our most recent bonus episode was deleted scenes with three of our interviews from this year.

Gretchen: We had deleted scenes from our liveshow Q&A with Kirby Conrod about language and gender. We talked about reflexive pronouns, multiple pronouns in fiction, and talking about people who use multiple pronoun sets.

Lauren: We also have an excerpt from our interview with Itxaso Rodríguez-Ordóñez about Basque because it’s famous among linguists for having ergativity.

Gretchen: We wanted to know “What do Basque people themselves think about ergativity?” It turns out, there are jokes and cartoons about it, which Itxaso was able to share with us.

Lauren: Amazing and charming.

Gretchen: Finally, we have an excerpt from my conversation with authors Ada Palmer and Jo Walton about swearing in science fiction and fantasy. This excerpt talks about acronyms both of the swear-y and non-swear-y kind.

Lauren: You can get this bonus episode as well as a whole bunch more at patreon.com/lingthusiasm.

Gretchen: Also, yeah, maybe this is a good time to remember that we have over 80 bonus episodes.

Lauren: We have bonus episodes about the time a researcher smuggled a bunny into a classroom to do linguistics on children.

Gretchen: We also have a bonus episode about “The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog” and more phrases that contain all the letters of the alphabet – plus, what people do with phrases like this in languages that don’t have alphabets.

Lauren: We also have an entire bonus episode that’s just about the linguistics of numbers.

Gretchen: If you wish you had more lingthusiasm episodes to listen to right now, or if you just wanna help us keep making this podcast long into the future, we really appreciate everyone who becomes a patron.

Lauren: You can find all of that at patreon.com/lingthusiasm.

[Music]

Gretchen: Hey, Lauren, I’ve got big news.

Lauren: Yeah?

Gretchen: Did you know I’m from the oldest family lineage in the world?

Lauren: Wow! You sound like you are part of some prestigious, ancient, royal – I can only assume royal with that level of knowledge about your family lineage.

Gretchen: Well, you know, I have some family members who are really into genealogy. I’ve been looking at some family trees. And I have come to the conclusion that my family is the oldest family in the world.

Lauren: You know, I have grandparents, and they have grandparents, and I assume they had grandparents, and I guess my family goes all the way back as well. We didn’t come out of nowhere. I might not know all their names. I don’t think we were ever rulers of any nation state as far as I’m aware. But I dunno if you are from the oldest family lineage because I think everyone is.

Gretchen: Well, this is not a mutually exclusive statement. I can be from the oldest family lineage, and you can be from the oldest family lineage, and everyone listening to this podcast can be all from the oldest family lineage in the world because we’re all descended from the earliest humans.

Lauren: This is a good point.

Gretchen: Psych!

Lauren: I think it’s definitely worth remembering the difference between the very fact that we are all from the same humans – and the difference between that and knowing names of specific individuals back to a certain point.

Gretchen: I should clarify – I am not royalty. I do not actually know the names all the way back because at a certain point writing stops existing and, at some point before that, people stopped recording my ancestors. I don’t know when it stops.

Lauren: But there’s definitely a tradition in certain royal families and stuff of being able to claim that you can trace your family back to, you know, maybe –

Gretchen: Like Apollo or something.

Lauren: Oh, gosh, like, mythical characters, okay. I was thinking of just tracing them back a thousand years, but I guess –

Gretchen: Tracing them back to Adam and Eve or tracing them back to Helen of Troy or Apollo or these sorts of things. I feel like – at least I’ve heard of this. I think that talking about human ancestral lineages helps us make sense of the types of claims that people also make about languages being the oldest language.

Lauren: I feel like I’ve heard this before – different languages making claim to being the oldest language.

Gretchen: I’ve heard it quite a lot. I did a bit of research, and I looked up a list of some languages that people have claimed to be the oldest.

Lauren: Okay, what did you find?

Gretchen: A lot of things that can’t all be true at the same time.

Lauren: Or can all be true because all languages are descended from some early human capacity for human language.

Gretchen: Right. There’s different geographical hot spots, you know, people making claims about Egyptian, about Sanskrit, Greek, Chinese, Aramaic, Farsi, Tamil, Korean, Basque – speaking of Basque episodes. Sometimes, people look at reconstructed languages like Proto-Indo-European, which is, you know, the old thing that the modern-day Indo-European Languages are descended from. But part of the issue here is that, at least for spoken languages – and we’re gonna get to sign languages – but at least for spoken languages, babies can’t raise themselves.

Lauren: Unfortunately, I, personally, have to say after the last few years.

Gretchen: Deeply inconveniently –

Lauren: Yeah.

Gretchen: – for adult sleep schedules. If you have a baby with typical hearing, and they’re being raised in a community or even by one person, they’re gonna acquire language from the people that are raising it.

Lauren: Absolutely – in much the same way we all have people giving us genetic input, we also have people giving us linguistic input and continuing on that transmission of human language.

Gretchen: Exactly. When the languages claim to be “old,” that’s often more of a political claim or a religious claim or a heritage claim than it is a linguistic claim because we think that languages probably have a common ancestor. Certainly, all languages are learnable by all humans. If you raise a baby in a given environment, they’ll grow up with the language that’s around them. The human capacity for language seems to be common across all of us. We just don’t know what that tens-of-thousands-year-old early language looked like.

Lauren: In much the same way we lose track of earlier ancestors when we get earlier than written records. We talked about this in the reconstructing old languages episode that there’s just a point where you can’t go back further because there’s just not enough information to say exactly how Proto-Indo-European might have, at some earlier point, been related to, say, the Sino-Tibetan languages or the Niger-Congo family.

Gretchen: Right. We also talked about this in the writing systems episode where writing systems had been invented about 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 years ago, but human language probably emerged sometime between 50,000 and 150,000 years ago, which is so much older. That’s 10-times-to-30-times older than that. We don’t know because sounds and signs leave impressions on the air waves that vanish very quickly and don’t leave fossils until writing starts being developed much later.

Lauren: Very inconvenient.

Gretchen: Absolutely the first thing I would do with a time machine.

Lauren: All of those languages that you mentioned as people laying claim to them being the oldest, they come from all kinds of different language families. Although, I have to say, a very Indo-European, Western skew there, which probably reflects the corners of the internet that you have access to.

Gretchen: This reflects the people that are making claims like this on the English-speaking internet that I’m looking at and the modern-day nation states and religious traditions and cultural traditions that are making claims to certain types of legitimacy via having access to old texts or having access to uninterrupted transmission of stories and legends and mythologies that give them those sorts of claims. There’s no reason to think that a whole bunch of languages on the North and South American continents are not also equally old as all the other languages, but people aren’t doing nation state building with them, and so they don’t tend to show up on those lists.

Lauren: Yeah. A lot of nation state building, a lot of religion happening there as well. I think about how yoga is – I love a bit of yoga, and I think it’s really lovely that all the yoga terms are still given to you in this older Sanskritic language, but it definitely is done sometimes with this claim to legitimacy and prestige in the same way that having something in Latin for the Catholic Church gives that same kind of vibe.

Gretchen: I think about this scene from the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding where you have the daughter, who’s the one that’s getting married. She’s in the car as a teen with her parents. It’s this scene where the parents are being a bit cringe-y in the way that teens often experience their parents to be. The dad is saying, “Name a word. I will tell you how it comes from Greek,” because he’s got this big Greek pride thing going.

Lauren: This a classic Greek-American migrant pride happening.

Gretchen: Right. He says, “arachnophobia,” and he’s explaining how the roots come from Greek, and that one’s true. Then the daughter’s friend, who’s in the back seat, is rolling her eyes and saying, “Well, what about ‘kimono’?”

Lauren: Ah, “kimono” the Japanese robe?

Gretchen: Yes. The Dad’s like, “Oh, no, it’s from Greek. Here’s this connection that I have found.”

Lauren: I like his linguistic ad-libbing skills.

Gretchen: It’s certainly a great improvisational performance skill. The movie is clearly designed to put the viewer in sympathy with the young girls in the back seat who are teasing him, and the daughter’s face-palming at this claim, which is one of the reasons why it’s one of my favourite examples of people making up fake etymologies in media because you don’t leave the movie thinking, “Oh, I never realised ‘kimono’ was from Greek.” You leave that movie being like, “Ah, here’s this dad who has over-exaggerated pride in his heritage that doesn’t allow for other people’s heritage to also have words that come from them.” It’s a claim that he's making for personal reasons and for heritage reasons that doesn’t have linguistic founding, but none of these claims have linguistic founding.

Lauren: The dad has come kind of close to a linguistic truth though, which is that linguists talk about languages having features that can be either conservative or innovative. Modern Greek has a lot of the same sound features as Ancient Greek, which is probably helped by that consistent writing system. A writing system definitely helps transmission stay stable because you can point back to older texts. English has probably slowed down a lot in its change because of the writing system as well.

Gretchen: Genuinely, English has borrowed a lot of words from Greek – as well as a lot of other languages that are not Greek. This gets to both Greek and Sanskrit and Chinese having these eras that are talked about as “classical” or as “old,” which is an era that the present-day people, or some slightly earlier group of people, looked back on and thought, “Yeah, those people were doing some cool stuff. We’re gonna call it ‘classical’ because we liked it in history.”

Lauren: I do love the idea that Chaucer had no idea that he was moving on from Old English to Middle English because there wasn’t a Modern English yet.

Gretchen: How could you describe yourself as “Middle English” – that’s sort of like the “late-stage capitalism” that implies that we’re towards the end of something. Like, we don’t know, folks.

Lauren: I don’t think English always does self-deprecating well. English has a lot of belief in its superiority as a language. I think we can say that about the ideology behind English. But I do love that English didn’t go for “Classical English.” Imagine if we said Beowulf was written in “Classical English.”

Gretchen: We could have, yeah. We could have.

Lauren: We just went with, “Ah, that’s old. I don’t understand it. It’s got cases. It’s got all these extra affixes. It’s old. It’s a bit stuffy.”

Gretchen: That may have been because they were comparing it already to Classical Latin and Classical Greek, which was even more antique. The English speakers were looking elsewhere for their golden age. I don’t think people often claim that English is the oldest language because English speakers are seeing the history of their society located in this Greco-Latin tradition.

Lauren: Yeah, I think that’s a good explanation for it. I do wonder if maybe the attitude that we now have towards Shakespearean English, if maybe that will become “Classical English” when we’re a bit further on, and Shakespeare becomes even less accessible.

Gretchen: Right. And if Shakespeare becomes the text that everyone is referring to because it’s this quote-unquote “classic” text but calling something a “classical era” reflects on the subsequent era and what they thought about the older one more so than the era itself.

Lauren: Having this ability to distinguish between an “old” or a “classical” and a “modern” version of a language requires that writing tradition, whereas the majority of human languages, for the majority of human history, have happily existed and transmitted knowledge without a writing system. These writing systems make us very focused on pinning down. I super appreciate the website Glottolog, which catalogues languages and all the names they’re known by. We have a lot of languages that are “classical,” like “Classical Chinese” or “Classical Quechua.” We have some “early” – so “Early Irish.”

Gretchen: I think I’ve also heard of “Old Irish.”

Lauren: We have “Old Chinese” and “Old Japanese” in Glottolog, but I’ve definitely also heard them referred to as “classical,” so slightly different vibes there. Of course, you have things like “Ancient Hebrew,” which, older than old, very prestigious. I particularly like the precision with which some names get given to different languages over time. Glottolog has an “Old Modern Welsh,” which is nice and specific. I particularly appreciate the “Imperial-Middle-Modern Aramaic.”

Gretchen: “Imperial-Middle-Modern Aramaic.” That also gets to languages being named and being spread through empire and conquest and wars, which is also part of that historical tradition that people look back to.

Lauren: For sure. That’s part of the narrative building around languages. A lot of what is maintained about a language is religious documents or documents of imperial rule. That means that that imperial form might have been a particular register. Imagine if all that we had about English was the tax forms that we have.

Gretchen: Oh, god, that would be really boring.

Lauren: You would have a very different idea of what English is compared to how it’s spoken day-to-day. That’s what makes this understanding of old languages just from a written record really challenging.

Gretchen: When I think about trying to understand the history of languages just from the written record, I’m reminded of this classic joke – I dunno if you’ve heard this one – where you’re walking down the street one night, and you see someone standing under a streetlight looking at their feet and trying to search for something. You go, “Oh, what are you looking for?” And the person says, “Oh, my contact lens. It fell out. I’m trying to find it.” And you say, “Oh, did you lose it under the streetlight?” And the person goes, “No, I lost it a block over that way, but there’s no streetlight there, so it’s much easier to search here.”

Lauren: [Laughs] Hmm.

Gretchen: I guess this is a joke that doesn’t work so well now that everyone has phones with flashlights on them, and contact lenses have improved their technology and don’t pop out spontaneously like that. But when we’re looking for the history of language, it’s like looking under the streetlight because that’s where it’s easy to look. It’s not actually doing a random sample of all of the bits of history – many of which are just lost to us.

Lauren: Indeed. I like thinking about the imperial languages and the classical languages because sometimes we do get written records that help give us a glimpse into just how ordinary people were going about living their lives.

Gretchen: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, can we talk about the clay tablet?

Lauren: We can absolutely talk about the clay tablet that I know what you mean because you’re talking about the complaint to Ea-nāṣir, which is a clay tablet that’s written in Akkadian cuneiform. It’s considered to be the world’s oldest known written complaint.

Gretchen: This is from a customer named Nanni who’s complaining about the quality of the copper ingots that was received.

Lauren: The thing that I love about this is that there is this complaint, but also, they’re pretty sure they found Ea-nāṣir’s house because there are other complaints about the quality of the copper in this residence.

Gretchen: We really think we know who’s at fault here.

Lauren: Yeah. It seems like he was just a provider of adequate quality copper, and people really needed to go to a better place to get a better quality of copper.

Gretchen: Cuneiform is also this interesting example of searching under the streetlight for the contact lens because the language Sumerian was written in cuneiform, and then later, Akkadian, which is a Semitic language related to modern-day Arabic and Hebrew, and Hittite, which is an Indo-European language related to English and Sanskrit and a bunch of other languages. They were all using this system of stamping the ends of reeds in these pointy triangle shapes onto clay blocks. Do you know what happens to clay blocks when they’re in a house, and the house burns down?

Lauren: They just get fired and made more resilient.

Gretchen: They get made incredibly durable. If people were writing on parchment or in textiles – like in fabrics or cords or strings or on leather or wood – most of those don’t get preserved the same way because you expose them to water, and they start rotting.

Lauren: And they don’t do great with fire.

Gretchen: They really don’t do great with fire. Animals will eat them. Clay has none of these problems. We don’t even know if we know what all of the ancient writing systems are because the ones that have survived are the ones on clay or stone.

Lauren: I was so charmed when I learnt about Latin curse tablets, which are very similar to the complaints to Ea-nāṣir. These are small bits of lead that people could scratch a curse or a wish onto, and then they would throw them into some kind of sacred water. They found, like, 130 of these at Bath in Britian, but they appear to have popped up all over the Roman Empire. It’s just like these tiny insights into the pettiness of humanity as opposed to the great works of literature, or we’ve talked about how the Rosetta Stone was in these three official languages and was all about a declaration about taxation.

Gretchen: But instead, you can have “This curse is on Gaius because he stole my dog” sort of thing.

Lauren: “I have given to the goddess Sulis the six silver coins which I have lost. It is for the goddess to extract them from the names written below” – and then just lists people who owe this person cash.

Gretchen: That’s petty. I like it.

Lauren: Yeah, so annoyed.

Gretchen: I actually read a romance novel called Mortal Follies by Alexis Hall, which was set in Bath and used the ancient Bath curse tablets as a plot point.

Lauren: So charming.

Gretchen: If anyone wants to read curse tablets and also “romantasy” I think is what we’re calling the genre now.

Lauren: I feel like Jane Austen would’ve included curse tablets if she knew about them.

Gretchen: I think she was no stranger to pettiness. It’s very convenient that they wrote their curses on lead tablets, which is such an incredibly durable format. Imagine if they’d written them on cloth, and then we’d never have them for posterity.

Lauren: I feel sad for all the human pettiness that we’ve lost access to.

Gretchen: Two other old writing systems that we have access to because of the durability of the materials they were written on are oracle bone script, which is the ancestor to Chinese – another writing system that we think developed from scratch because we can see it developing thousands of years ago.

Lauren: Oracle bones written on I believe turtle bones and turtle shells.

Gretchen: Yes, hence the “bone” part – also very durable material and also used for religious purposes.

Lauren: My sympathy and thanks to the turtles.

Gretchen: Indeed. Then the early Mesoamerican writing systems, of which the oldest one is the Olmec writing system, which were written on ceramics. They show representations of drawings of things that look like a codex-shaped book made out of bark which, obviously, we don’t have. We just have ceramic drawings of the bark. Come on!

Lauren: Oh, no!

Gretchen: Ah, it’s so close!

Lauren: How cruel to point out that we’re missing information.

Gretchen: You thought you were mad about the Library of Alexandria burning down. Wait until you hear about the Olmec bark.

Lauren: Yeah, ah, that really gets you and just is a reminder of how much we can’t say about the history of human language because of what we don’t have a record of.

Gretchen: Well, you know, before we do a whole episode about things that we don’t know – because much as we can make fun of searching for the contact lens under the streetlight, we don’t know what we don’t know.

Lauren: Indeed.

Gretchen: What’s something else that people sometimes mean when they say a language is “old”?

Lauren: Well, this goes back to that conservative idea that some languages just have conservative features that haven’t changed as much. A language that has a lot of sound changes we might call very “innovative,” or they’ve “innovated” a new way of doing the tense on the verbs. You can trace it back to an older form of the language, but it looks very different at this point in time.

Gretchen: I think the example that I’m most familiar with this is Icelandic versus English. In the last thousand years or so, English has had a lot of contact from things like the Norman Conquest, which introduced a lot of French words to English, compared to Icelandic, which has had less of that. Icelanders have an easier time reading something like their sagas, which are 800 and more years old, than English speakers have reading texts like Chaucer, which are about the same age but have had a lot more linguistic changes happening because of more contact in English over the years.

Lauren: That’s one of the things that linguists who look at when a language tends to be more innovative and change, it tends to be during these periods of contact. It tends to be during periods of invasion. English had the French come up from the south, repeated Viking incursions from all around the coast. They all had an impact on the language. I find it really interesting. Icelanders are really proud of how conservative the language is and that they still can read these older stories. I think in some ways English has created this story for itself where it’s really proud of the fact that it is this language that continues to take influences from places and is really innovative. These are just part of the story that a language can tell about itself and the speakers can tell about it.

Gretchen: I think that there are reasons to be proud of any language that don’t have to rely on age as the sole arbiter of legitimacy. In some cases, it’s that rupture with the past that people use as a point of pride. I’m thinking of Haitian Creole, for example, which is descended from French. You can hear that French influence. When I’ve heard people speaking Haitian Creole, it almost sounds like they’re speaking a French dialect that I don’t quite know. But the writing system is very different. It’s much more phonetic than French is. The word for “me” in Haitian Creole is “mwa,” and it’s written M-W-A. The word for “me” in Modern French is “moi,” pronounced the same way but written M-O-I.

Lauren: Right.

Gretchen: It used to be pronounced /moɪ/. This is why you get “roy” and /ʁwa/ for “king” and stuff like this, hence the spelling. But the sound changes happened in French. When the Haitian speakers were deciding how to write their language down, they were like, “No, we’re gonna have a phonetic system. We don’t need to be beholden to the French system. We’re gonna have something that establishes our identity as something that’s distinct from French.”

Lauren: For anyone who’s tried to learn the French spelling, especially those endings that are still in the writing system but not in the pronunciation system, I think it’s fair to say French has gone through a number of sound innovations, even if it might be more conservative in other features of the grammar.

Gretchen: It’s very conservative in the writing system, but the sounds have changed a lot.

Lauren: It’s interesting you bring up Haitian Creole because creoles are the result of this intense contact between two or more languages. They often get labelled as being “new,” which is kind of the flip side of this discourse around “old” languages.

Gretchen: That’s controversial in linguistics whether to consider creoles “new” or to consider them older. What they definitely have is children being raised by people who also already had some amount of language. Babies can’t raise themselves. But they do have this situation where their speakers were prevented from learning how to read and write, learning how to access the formal varieties of language, often very violently and through horrible circumstances. A lot of creoles came about because of the slave trade, because of historical systems of oppression. The language transmission was not the same as if you were learning it from parents who’d been educated in the language, but they were still learning from people who had access to the language. There’s been a bit of a swing in creole studies more recently to say, “What if we don’t consider these completely new? What if we think about the ancestral features that they have in common with the languages they’re descended from?” which you can readily trace as well.

Lauren: Thinking in terms of which features are innovative rather than the whole language as being new. Maybe it has a very innovative way of doing the noun structure, but it still has a lot of the features of the two different – or multiple different – languages in terms of sounds, and so taking apart the different linguistic elements and not just focusing on the whole thing as being “new” or “old” and trying to apply these labels that don’t actually account for what’s happening.

Gretchen: It can be kind of exoticising to creoles to say, “Oh, these are completely different from all of the other ways that languages have gotten transmitted,” when what’s also going on is kids in a community who were exposed to a bunch of languages or a bunch of different linguistic inputs at a time making sense of that and coming up with, collaboratively, something with the other kids in the community that is different from what people were speaking before but still has that ancestral link.

Lauren: There are contexts in which children are raised without that access to language transmission. That is when a d/Deaf child is born into a hearing and spoken language family context, which means that they’re not getting that language.

Gretchen: Generally, the child and the parents and the family and community members do end up with some amount of ways of communicating based on the existing gestures that people do alongside a spoken language and elaborating on them, making them more complex, because you are trying to communicate somehow. There are linguistic studies about this, right?

Lauren: Ideally, in an ideal world, if you’re a d/Deaf child, you would want to have access to signed language input through, ideally, your family but also your wider educational context. Some d/Deaf children do get hearing aids. They are useful but not a perfect replication of the hearing child experience. That’s a possibility. There are some contexts where children have just developed this communication system with their hearing family in their own home context. These are known as “home sign.” There have been examples of this, and they have been studied. One of the most famous examples that has been described in a lot of detail is the example of David and his family. Susan Goldin-Meadow and her collaborators over the years have done a lot of work looking at the way David and, especially, his mother communicate with each other.

Gretchen: This is a really tough situation. I think these studies started in the early ’90s. Hopefully, people know better now and can give their d/Deaf kids access to a sign language, but given that this happened, what can we learn from the situation?

Lauren: Goldin-Meadow definitely started publishing about this in the early ’80s. So, David – who I will forever think of as a 7-to-10-year-old child – is actually a GenX-er who, if he had kids himself, they’re undergraduates now.

Gretchen: Okay. It’s good to put famous children from studies in perspective.

Lauren: Because they are – it’s like the Shirley Temple phenomenon, right. David, in my mind, is always just this kid who’s learning to communicate with his mom, but he’s a fully-grown, tax-paying adult now.

Gretchen: What was he doing when he was communicating with his mom in this immortalised-in-amber childhood years?

Lauren: What was really interesting from a thinking-about-this-human-capacity-for-language-and-communication perspective is that his mother and the family developed this way of communicating with him that grew out of their typical gestures and context and a lot of showing each other stuff.

Gretchen: Pointing to things and so on.

Lauren: Pointing – so useful in all languages and all contexts. What they found was that David was creating systematic order out of the gestures that he was getting. So, he had more systematic structure in terms of the hand shape that he was using – he created these hand shape structures and these individual signs that his mom would also use but not as consistently as him. It’s actually the child taking this really idiosyncratic, raw gesture material from his mom. Gestures in spoken language context tend to be a bit more freeform and unstructured than, say, something like a signed language, which uses the same hands but in a very different way. He wasn’t doing something that was a fully structured language, but it had more structure than what he was being given.

Gretchen: His brain was really starved for linguistic input, and he was trying to extract as many linguistic vitamins and minerals as he could from this incomplete gestural system that he was being given as the closest approximation of language. Obviously, we do wish that David, who was raised in the US I think –

Lauren: I think.

Gretchen: – had just been given access to ASL, which lots of people already were using in the US and could’ve happened where he would’ve gotten the fully-fledged, healthy balanced diet of lots of linguistic input from lots of people, but the child brain seems to want to reconstruct language out of whatever is available to it.

Lauren: This type of system, which is often called “home sign,” is not the same as a fully-fledged sign language. Children often don’t have the same level of linguistic structure. They obviously can’t communicate with people outside of the home context who don’t know the signs that they’ve created with the family. I think it’s also worth pointing out that it is more structured than you would expect it to be from the input. We’ve seen when you take children from these emerging structures, and you bring enough d/Deaf people together, you actually get a real blossoming of a full linguistic system.

Gretchen: The most famous example of this is in Nicaragua in the 1980s, where a bunch of d/Deaf children were brought together at a school for the first time. The school wasn’t trying to teach them a signed language; they were trying to do an oralist method of education, which is [grumbles] – about which the less said, the better – but the kids themselves were coming in with their home sign systems and developing them further in contact with each other. When the next generation of kids showed up, and they had access to this combined home sign system, they really turned it into a full-fledged sign language, which is now – Nicaraguan Sign Language is the national sign language in Nicaragua. These types of languages are some good candidates for “youngest” language, even if we don’t know what the “oldest” language looked like.

Lauren: The amazing thing about Nicaraguan Sign Language is there were linguists on the ground pretty much from the beginning of the school in 1980s. There is a documentation of how this language has evolved. It was the older signers coming in, communicating with the younger children coming to the school, who then created more of the structure – so being a bit like David but in this really rich communicative and linguistic environment and building this structure into the language.

Gretchen: It seems to take those two generations of linguistic input. That feels very reassuring to me which is that language is so robust that even if we lose all of our writing systems, and we lose all of our memory of writing systems, and we lose access to the memory of what language looks – like, suddenly we all wake up with amnesia or something – we would rediscover this. Even though they wouldn’t be the same languages, we’d put something back together and still be able to talk to each other.

Lauren: We know this because Nicaraguan Sign Language is not the only example we have of a recently developed language that has emerged. The Nicaraguan Sign Language is a school-based sign, but we also have what are known as “village-based” sign systems, which is where there might be a d/Deaf family, or a number of d/Deaf families in the village – or a very high percentage of d/Deaf population – and a sign language emerges that the whole village, d/Deaf and hearing, use to communicate. It’s usually “village” because it is these smaller communities where people gather and live together and have to communicate with each other all the time.

Gretchen: And if you have an island or somewhere in the mountains or somewhere were there’s a high degree of genetic d/Deafness because there’s a relatively high degree of isolation, you can have a third of the village be d/Deaf, in which case, everybody in that village is learning signs from each other at a young age. I think the famous example of that that I’ve heard of relatively nearby is Martha’s Vineyard in the US, which is an island, I think. It has a village sign language.

Lauren: Lynn Hou talked about Al-Sayyid Bedouin Sign Language in the interview she did with us, which is in a tribal group in a desert in southern Israel.

Gretchen: There’s also Kata Kolok, which is also know as Benkala Sign Language or Balinese Sign Language, which is a village sign language indigenous to two neighbouring villages in northern Bali, Indonesia. Similar situations there.

Lauren: We see this robustness of language and these “young” languages but building on this underlying human tendency to want to create linguistic structure when you bring enough people who can communicate together.

Gretchen: A really interesting example that I’ve encountered recently of what it’s like to suddenly have at least access in terms of format or modality to language, even if you don’t know what everything means yet, is in the book True Biz by Sara Novic, which is set at a school for the d/Deaf. One of the main characters is a d/Deaf girl whose cochlear implants have been malfunctioning, and so she hasn’t been raised with access to a sign language, but suddenly, she’s in this school now and is learning ASL and trying to get her cochlear implants to still work but, in the meantime, is suddenly immersed in this environment where she has full access to language instead of this piecemeal access via attempting to lip read or attempting to use these implants that haven’t been working very well for her. The author is d/Deaf and talks about a variety of different types of experiences that people can have in that context.

Lauren: I really appreciated how this book made the most of the written format to occasionally just not give you what another character was saying, and so you get this experience of being the young protagonist in the book suddenly like, “I’m only getting half of this sentence. I don’t know what’s happening. It’s very stressful.”

Gretchen: Because there’s just a bunch of blank spaces. There were also some places where there were drawings of words that were being talked about or worksheets that she was seeing with line diagrams of different signs. Despite the fact that it’s a book that’s in written English trying to convey ASL, which is not English and doesn’t have a standard way of being written, I think it’s doing a really interesting job of trying to convey that experience.

Lauren: That lack of writing system for signed languages means that a lot of the history of signing in human language history has been lost to us. There have been different signing communities at different times in history. It’s probably been a very common way of humans doing language, but we just don’t know because it’s not in the streetlight of the written record.

Gretchen: Right. We don’t even know if the first language – the “oldest” language – was a spoken language or a signed language. People have come up with arguments for both things. We just don’t know.

Lauren: Which in some ways I find very relaxing instead of constantly trying to make cases for which language is the “oldest” or which is the “newest,” you can just let go of those debates because they are all, at the end of the day, unproveable. You can just enjoy the variety of human language without it being a competition.

Gretchen: A language doesn’t have to be the oldest language or even the newest language in order to be cool. Languages are great. All languages are interesting and valid, and people should have the right to have access to them when they want them. By listening to this episode, you’re participating in part of that chain of human language transmission that stretches beyond anyone’s written record or recorded record or video record. You’re still part of it.

[Music]

Gretchen: For more Lingthusiasm and links to all the things mentioned in this episode, go to lingthusiasm.com. You can listen to us on all the podcast platforms or at lingthusiasm.com. You can get transcripts of every episode at lingthusiasm.com/transcripts. You can follow @lingthusiasm on all of the social media sites. You can get scarves with lots of linguistics patterns on them including IPA symbols, branching tree diagrams, bouba and kiki, and our favourite esoteric Unicode symbols, plus other Lingthusiasm merch – like our new “Etymology isn’t Destiny” t-shirts and aesthetic IPA posters – at lingthusiasm.com/merch. Links to my social media can be found at gretchenmcculloch.com. I blog as AllThingsLinguistic.com. My book about internet language is called Because Internet.

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Gretchen: Lingthusiasm is created and produced by Gretchen McCulloch and Lauren Gawne. Our Senior Producer is Claire Gawne, our Editorial Producer is Sarah Dopierala, our Production Assistant is Martha Tsutsui-Billins, and our Editorial Assistant is Jon Kruk. Our music is “Ancient City” by The Triangles.

Lauren: Stay lingthusiastic!

[Music]

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