#barry meta
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not sally writing a whole show where shes an amazing mother supporting her kid out of an abusive relationship and then becoming abusive towards her real life kid. not telling her agent that she has 'more to bring to the table than breakfast' only to end up as a waitress in a breakfast bar. not barry spinning a narrative to his son about being a war hero and even naming himself after superman when his son doesnt even know his real name or that they're on the run for murder. 'he thinks my name is emily' 'but he knows who YOU really are.' not hank telling barry that he didnt want to take everything for himself and wanted to split it 50/50 with cristobal only to kill cristobal and taking it all for himself but still acting like it's both of their empire. naming his business a combination of their names and erecting a golden shrine to his dead lover. everyone is acting. everyone trying desperately to live their own lie.
#even fuches leaning into the raven narrative#what the fuck bill#barry#hbo barry#barry spoilers#bill hader#alec berg#barry berkman#sally reed#noho hank#cristobal sifuentes#sarah goldberg#anthony carrigan#michael irby#barry meta
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God, just . . . the way these two continue to believe there was ever anything healthy about their relationship makes me so sad. Barry having been a supportive boyfriend made Sally feel seen for the first time and that makes her feel safe because she's never been in a relationship like that - even though she was never safe with Barry and he wasn't able to see her any more than she was able to see him. And even though now she knows she isn’t safe with him, that nobody is safe with him, she still feels it. She feels safer with her murderer ex-boyfriend than she does with her own parents because at least he fucking hears her.
Barry also has no concept of what a good relationship is, so he truly thinks the way Sally treated him was loving! She only ever used him for her own gain and to feed her ego and at no point has she ever truly been interested in Barry's needs, but Barry still can't see that. His only relationship for the past decade before season 1 had been Fuches. He doesn’t know what it is to be loved without the person having an ulterior motive, or to be cared for enough that that person actually has his best interests at heart or even simply respects his boundaries.
Neither of them have any idea what a good relationship looks like, and I'm getting the feeling that neither of them ever will.
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The Narrative Morality of HBO's "Barry" Series Finale
OK, so post HBO Barry series finale, I'm trying to figure out what I call the "narrative morality" of the story. IE, what morality is rewarded, what gets punished, and whether or not there's a common thread at all, because a story where no consistent morality is rewarded or punished is also a statement.
So let's dive in with a few of my takeaways on what Barry is trying to "say", at least within season 4 and its finale. Cut for spoilers.
Possibility 1: "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
This to me is not the most convincing argument, but it is the quickest to articulate. There is no narrative morality. The fact is that Bill Hader is making a statement about the inherent senselessness of life. Fuches didn't deserve to get away. Coiseneau didn't deserve to go to jail for Barry's crimes. People deserved a happy ending who didn't get one, despite doing everything right, and people who deserved to die didn't and indeed, have every indication of going on to live fulfilling lives.
On a wider level, it's an indictment of Hollywood and films (in my opinion) like American Sniper that glorify violence and turn villains into martyrs. By expecting a moral to this Hollywood story, you are played for a fool. It means nothing. It all means nothing. Objectively, many people are dead who didn't deserve it or take any actions to cause it. To seek meaning in the violence is a fool's game.
Possibility 2: "To Thine Own Self Be True"
The only way to gain redemption in "Barry" is to operate with integrity. By coming clean to her son about what she did and who she really is, Sally secures for herself a marginally happy ending as a theater teacher with a son who loves her and the adoration of her students.
By realizing that he has always been, deep down, a heartless piece of shit and a criminal, Fuches self-actualizes, becomes who he has always been deep down, redeems himself by rescuing Barry's son (who he put in danger in the first place) and walks off into the night, presumably satisfied with his choices.
By resolving in his final moments to come clean about Janet's murder, Barry didn't fully secure redemption but he did get all he prayed for: to be seated at the right hand of his father figure in death, to be seen as a hero by his son, and to be lionized after his death.
By failing to admit to himself that he was the cause of Cristobal's death, NoHo failed to achieve redemption. Instead, he receives the fool's gold of dying in his lover's arm, a statue of his lover literally made of fool's gold. He told Sally there was nothing he could do to help her, he failed to take responsibility in that moment, because he did have the power to act with integrity, just like he did in the events leading up to Cristobal's death, and he failed to do so. His reasons were understandable but ultimately, he wore a mask, and those who wear masks are punished by this narrative.
Coiseneau is the fakest of them all. On numerous occasions he's given chances to come clean, to act with integrity, to care about what actually matters in life like Janice and his son. He is over and over again tempted away from acting with integrity by instead pursuing fame and the appearance of success. He is no inherently a bad person, but he is over and over again show to be far too seduced by the temptations of Hollywood fame and his own legend to ever truly break free and act with integrity.
Janice's father also fumbles with integrity at the end, choosing the easy explanation of Coiseneau being his daughter's murderer, rather than pursuing the truth. As a result, his daughter's true murderer is lionized by the media and her lover is wrongfully convicted of her death.
In essence, when people act with falsehood and give in to convenient narratives about themselves, instead of pursuing integrity and truth, regardless of the morality of that inner truth (being a criminal is still Fuches being true to himself) the narrative punishes them. When people are true to themselves and act with integrity, even if its only to admit their own monstrousness, the narrative rewards them.
As a story told by Bill Hader, who is embedded in the shallowness of Hollywood with its shifting alliances, massive egos, frailties and foibles, "Barry" as a story about fake people constantly failing to improve themselves, act with integrity, or even acknowledge who they really are, but choosing to live instead in the fairytale palaces of their false images of themselves, fits thematically with much of what we see on screen. It doesn't preclude other themes and morals, but to me at least, there's a running theme of integrity vs. falsehood in terms of who is rewarded by the narrative and who is punished.
Possibility 3: Every Act of Violence Removes More Of Our Choices
Violence is condemned by the narrative of "Barry" but in a very interesting way. One act of violence never cements a person's unhappy ending, but it removes choices available to them. Each lost life is one more path that has been cut off from the world, and the characters who commit violence, who commit murder, see their own lives and available choices pruned away as well with each murder committed.
The narrative is actually rather optimistic towards Barry when he first signs up for the acting class. There is a sense that this is his highest point, his earnest decision to try to escape the violence. However, his past haunts him. It cuts away options he might have had in his own happiness. When he chooses to return to that world out of self-interest, the narrative once again condemns him. Each murder, each coverup with another murder, spirals. Each death cuts away another path Barry might have taken in his life. He can no longer visit friends without guilt. He can no longer have people in his life, or be an actor the way he wanted to, or enjoy the acclaim he hoped to achieve, or live openly with his family eventually, in a place of his choosing, because of his acts of violence.
Sally commits only one major act of violence, but that too has a sense of placing a ceiling upon all she might have achieved in life. She can no longer act freely without guilt. She can no longer aspire to heights that would draw attention to her that might uncover the murder. She can no longer be all she might have been, because she is responsible for a man's death.
Coiseneau is punished by the narrative for the violence he partakes in. He is punished when he chooses to act with violence and shoot "Barry", who turns out to be his own son. He is punished when he does not act to bring Janice's actual killer to justice. He is punished when he doesn't wait a few more moments for Barry to turn himself in for Janice's murder, instead taking Barry's death into his own hands and damning his own memory as a result. All his choices are taken away by this moment of violence.
Fuches might have finally blossomed into the criminal he has always been, deep down, but his options are still limited. He is a figure of shadows now, incapable of coming out into the light. He can't share Barry's life with him, or be in John's life, or walk openly outside the criminal element. He has found himself in the darkness, but each act of violence has reduced all his other options to nothing, he cannot have anything but the life of a petty criminal.
The organized crime characters all have their choices limited by the violence they've committed, over and over. They don't get out. They suffer brief, brutal lives, often dying as a result of their own machinations. Cristobal tries desperately to go legitimate, but can't escape his past. NoHo wants desperately to live in a world where he can be safe, have Cristobal, be happy, and be fulfilled, but the violence he's partaken in precludes this, it closes so many of these doors to him. With Cristobal's death, he loses even more.
Each act of violence diminishes us. It diminishes the world. It reduces the choices available to us and to the world, because those two are inextricable. Violence is not only never the answer, it steals from the life and options of those who commit it.
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the way John's growing up with a dad who constantly glorifies himself + exposes John to trauma (physical neglect, graphic videos, etc) + overall treats his son like a walking tape recorder for him to speak into, all so he can control who his son is/will ever be...and the way John has a mom who is reluctant to hold him + is drunk in front of him all the time + generally does what she can to avoid being mentally & emotionally present around her family
the EXCITEMENT i felt when John was literally throwing a ball with another child. A kid who was talking about JOHN! Saying nice things about who John IS!! WOW IMAGINE THAT---
Barry may spend a lot of time with his son but John literally froze in his tracks at the sight of people playing baseball. He knows his father's company but his parents never provide him a mutual back and forth. When he's playing with the kid they both take turns catching and throwing; they're equally important. Where else does John ever get that
#'barry may spend a lot of time with his son but he won't buy him a fucking blanket'#going BANANAS#barry hbo#john berkman#kicking dust smacking dirt kicking walls#BARRY LEAVING HIS FUCKING MEDALS IN THE SAND SO HIS SON CAN 'FIND THEM' SO BARRY CAN GIVE A SPEECH ON A SCENIC BENCH--#NOT ORDERING HIS SON! A FUCKING!! COMFORTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!#YOUR. SON. IS. C O L D#pyra speaks#barry meta
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Barry on the matter of appearances. How each characters change, growth or regression happens outward or temporarily. Sally's wig, something that can easily be pulled off to reveal her blonde hair. Barry getting shaved by Moss and I swear EVERYONE thought the last 8yrs were all fake bc barry looked the same underneath the years. Hell even fuches getting tatted up to fit the raven. Hank NOT getting any change, adopting andreis signature suit style but other than that THATS ITS looking exactly the same as the day Cristobal died and that honestly was so jarring. There's intention there, that Hank didn't grow past that. He lived in that moment in that day every minute of everyday.
#happy midnight thots#barry hbo#barry meta#hbo barry#barry berkman#sally reed#noho hank#monroe fuches#cristobal sifuentes#nohobal#a rabid chihuahua sitting where my brain used to be#cristohank
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THIS JUST IN
HADER SAID THE KIDS KNOCKING AT THE DOOR WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE LITERAL AND ACTUAL, ITS JUST IMAGINING AND NOW IM WORRIED BC SALLY ALSO HEARD IT
BILL!! BILL THATS CREEPY AS HELL BILL YOU DIDNT FILM THAT TO CONVEY WHAT YOU WANTED SALLY ALSO HEARD IT!!! YOU HAVE TO HAVE HER REACT TO BARRY AND NOT THE DOOR IF THERE ARENT ACTUALLY KIDS THERE THATS SO UNSETTLING!!!!!
#[ AHHHHHHH I am losing it ]#mine#hbo barry#bill hader#barry s4#tricky legacies#barry spoilers#barry meta
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can we talk about barry (the show and the character) and fathers? obviously father relationships and father issues are a big theme in the show - barry is looking for a father figure in gene to escape the toxic father/son relationship he has with fuches. gene is introduced as a terrible father to his own kid though he does make an effort and progresses that relationship.
what i think is really interesting is how father/child dynamics played into the revenge army. because the revenge army was largely fueled by the connection between a father and child and what happens when that connection is broken by violence. the mother and son duo - the mom is initially going to turn down fuches's offer but it's the son who takes the information, because he's now without his father and wants to avenge his death. then we have ryan madison's dad, torn apart without his son and wanting to be reuinted with him. you could even say sharon's actions somewhat relate to the loss of chris as her partner but also as the father of her child. and of course jim moss is motivated by the loss of his daughter which i've already talked about in another post that it's a father's love and grief for his child that is what finally catches up to barry.
we see another side of the father/child theme with albert. albert is the only person to offer barry forgiveness, and tells barry about his daughter. he says he wouldn't have his daughter if barry hadn't saved his life. instead of the others who blame barry for the loss of their child/father, albert credits barry for giving him the opportunity to be a father. he offers him forgiveness, he tells barry he isn't evil, he gives him a chance to put it all behind him.
but barry just can't let himself move on and is immediately dragged back in and to his downfall by his father figure (gene) working with a bereaved father to get justice for his daughter's death.
this is getting long so some bits from the prestige tv podcast below the cut
this was a theme bill hader talked about repeatedly in the prestige tv podcast recaps where he said a lot of the story beats came to them in the writers room by thinking about parent/child relationships and for bill, his own experience as a father. it really hit me when he was talking about ryan madison's dad and how ryan was presented as this kind of annoying goofball, but then showing his dad was meant to make the audience have the realization like wow, that guy was someone's whole world. someone loved him and is lost without him.
bill also talked about parenthood and how scary it can be to think about what lengths you would go to for your child and how that's something they tried to explore this season. in the recap for the finale he talked about how jim is alone with his daughter's memory and that it's because of barry and his violence that jim (and all of these other people) are alone.
and now it's gene, who barry genuinely believed loved him, who barry sees as a substitute father, who sold him out. it's going to be fascinating to see where the show goes from here.
#i'm sorry for anyone who followed me for ofmd it's barry brainrot time now!!#barry#barry hbo#barry spoilers#barry meta#who has daddy issues??? barry sure does
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so you’re telling me…
The last time Barry felt seen or understood or like he was able to talk about himself was in school when they had his class create collages that expressed who they are?
#[ stop….. my crops! :) ]#hbo barry spoilers#barry berkman#barry meta#ooc#headcanon: barry#[ thats like 2nd grade sh!t…. ]
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to me, the most fascinating (and utterly unintentional) feature of TAZ Balance's narrative structure is the way that on the first listen, Tres Horny Boys are the audience surrogates because they, much like us, have no idea what the fuck is going on, but on all subsequent relistens, then Lucretia, and sometimes Barry, and arguably especially Lup in the umbrella become the new audience stand-ins, because just like us, they are, in fact, painfully aware of what the fuck is going on :)
#taz#taz balance#taz balance spoilers#lup taaco#barry bluejeans#lucretia taz#and i really cannot say *especially* lup enough times#like lucretia and barry have their own meta roles in the story within the story#the meta-narrator and the meta-narrator's chosen meta-villain#but lup is the meta-audience#whenever thb wear red or joke about bringing barry back and we as the savvy audience get incredibly sad about it#lup is right there with us#she knows the twists and she knows the backstory and she is an observer who cannot tell anyone or save anyone#until she finally *can*#i love stories about stories and i love lup!
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i drew something last night hooray
#sth#sonic the hedgehog#uhhhh do i gotta tag all these mooks#meta sonic#blaze the car#car?#tf#blaze the cat#pseudo sonic#chip the light gaia#kitsunami the fennec#espio the chameleon#barry the quokka#im so tired school picked up and p3 reload dropped at the same time#no drawing left in me after that shit#dunkinsart
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oh god i just realised barry did get redemption. hes been begging god to wash away his sins as if they never happened to be seen as a good man and he fucking got it. the whole world thinks that he was a hero. buried in arlington cemetery with full honours. god is propaganda. god is hollywood.
#he is in hell tho. fuck you crusty murder boy i hope the devil shits on you.#barry#barry hbo#hbo barry#barry meta#barry spoilers#barry finale#barry season four#barry season 4#barry s4#bill hader#alec berg#barry berkman#gene cousineau#sally reed#noho hank#cristobal sifuentes#monroe fuches
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don't think about barry self harming and then immediately provoking somebody in a position of power over him and then letting out that slow little breath right after his tirade because he knew what he was doing
don't think about barry readying himself for the beating because he knows it's about to happen and not only can he not do anything about it, he wants it he needs somebody to hurt him more than he has the physical ability to hurt himself
and don't think about barry dissociating through the entire thing
#barry spoilers#barry hbo#barry berkman#i am completely normal about this scene. i'm totally fine.#also congrats to bill hader for some of the best goddamn microexpression acting ive ever seen in my fucking life#barry meta#bill hader#self harm tw#videos#videos - barry
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I just know Havoc has wanted to do that for ages but he thought it'd be too disrespectful to do it to Al.
#jean havoc#barry the chopper#fullmetal alchemist#fma#fma manga#reading!#my original post#my commentary - sort of meta?
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Sally's apology to John really struck me as a raw, meaningful parent-to-child apology. She didn't dumb anything down, she didn't lie to soften anything, she claimed all of her actions... he was so young, and Sally reacted to his age not by talking down to him, but by finding a way to describe the whole truth so he could understand
Most importantly I think is how she kept saying that John is a good person. Like...she thought she was about to die. And she didn't spend that time asking John for forgiveness or to remember her in a good light. She dedicated her words to making John feel loved. She spent that precious time giving him something to make sense of it all, to heal somewhere down the line even when she's not there
#HHHHHHUHHHHHHHHHH#i know that Sally & John's interactions at the college indicate a bunch of fucked-up-edness#ie him saying 'i love you' & her not hearing it. her asking him for reassurance#but i see the apology scene & her concern for him after the shooting#as evidence that she's going to give him SOMETHING good as his mother.#call me what u want but i have faith in them.#She's not perfect and they've got SOOOO much shit to live with. the both of them.#but amongst all of her motivations there is a genuine desire to see her son safe & happy#and i'm crossing my heart & hoping to die that -- now that Barry's not there -- that love for John comes through. and that he feels it.#the fact that they had an easy conversation outsite the theater; there was no indication Sally is using substances; John is sober;#and that John has friends.... I'm choosing to take these as indicators that -- despite the genuine problems that Are there --#John & Sally are reasonably healthy and so is their relationship.#oh god. this show. takes a fucking Lot out of me#barry hbo#sally reed#john berkman#barry finale#barry meta#pyra speaks
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if there’s one thing barry writers love, it’s themes of neurodivergence and being othered
#panels#dc#the flash#barry allen#adhdposting#autisms#meta#danbles#long post#the way his explanation for how isolating and othering the speedforce feels to him#is then followed by ‘why did i let him put on that suit? and why did i think it would be red?’#he finally has someone he feels could understand him#that he could in turn guide with their shared unique experience and perspective#and he went ahead and projected all of that onto wally :((#i have GOT to find out what wally’s pov is on the speed force bc ik it’s very different
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Simon Barry on Beatrice’s “Be free” line
Commenting on Be More Super's podcast interview (around the 48:55 mark):
“I was trying to make the line mean more than just one thing. I think it was designed to kind of encapsulate the whole journey of Ava’s life, which had been a series of cells, a series of traps, a series of obligations, a series of expectations. So on the one hand, Beatrice, who knew that, wanted Ava to be free of all those cages and obligations and expectations, because that was ultimately something that Ava had never asked for in her life. She’d never asked to be injured, she’d never asked to be kept in that orphanage, she’d never asked to get the halo, she’d never asked to be part of the OCS, she’d never asked to be the Warrior Nun. And so she was in essence a servant of a greater plan that she was not a part of. I think Beatrice wanted her to be free of that as well. And that’s what love is, you know – love is knowing that someone needs something and you can give it to them. And Beatrice probably also knew that the one thing holding Ava back from being free would be Beatrice! So she was giving her permission to say goodbye, in a way.” (Ah, my heart - again.)
#Warrior Nun#Avatrice#Warrior Nun meta#is it meta when it's from the writer haha#Simon Barry#anyway this commentary just made that scene punch me in the gut for the nth time#other interesting tidbits in the interview as well
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