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deanwasalwaysbi · 3 years

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Thinking About How This Wasn't Actually a Denial

But was it self preservation?

The year was 2013 and rather than a denial, Jensen said "Don't ruin it for everybody now."

What was the fan 'ruining' for everybody? The Con? or something else? So if I was a tinhatter - and sometimes I am - I might think about other tv shows from the past that were covertly queer and how they handled the question, were TV shows 'out'?

Mainstream shows like Bewitched, you know, shows that are so clearly straight, you can tell because... well. ... they never technically used the word 'gay'. ... witches honor

SPN Film Studies is Back in Session! Join Under the Cut for more on supernatural & the story about how Bewitched! came out of the Broom Closet

Bewitched aired from 1964-72, it's so old the first season was in B&W. The show starred Elizabeth Montgomery as Samantha, the strange housewife with a stranger secret. Her husband, Darrin, unwittingly married into the whole witchy family, from the now drag icon Agnes Moorehead's Endora with her open marriage, to the unmarried and batty Aunt Clara (Marion Lorne who played the mother in Hitchcock's heavily gay coded 'Strangers on a Train'), to the extremely coded Uncle Arthur (gay actor Paul Lynde). (We can't know for sure, but it seems at least 4 members of the cast were gay themselves.) The core premise of the show involves Samantha balancing who she really is with repressing that self for the safety and comfort of her family.

Samantha and her husband keep her [ahem] 'queer' nature a secret which gets harder on Samantha when she has to tell her daughter to live the same way, “I know what fun it is to be a part of the magical life ... to have so much at your fingertips. But we’re living in a world that’s just not ready for people like us, and I’m afraid they may never be. So you’re going to have to learn when you can use your witchcraft and when you can’t.”

There are plenty of generic 60s wacky hijinks but there are also whole episodes metaphorically about repression being harmful, episodes where characters asked if another was a 'thespian', episodes where Darrin was queercoded while under a spell, episodes about representation & bad stereotyping in media, and even two episodes where witches discussed whether it was time for witches to come out to the mortals, (whether mortals could accept that they were just nice normal people trying to live their lives like everybody else - or not - and would just freak out and kill them again).

When it came time to recast Dick York's Darrin with a new 2nd lead, Elizabeth and her husband, William Asher, knowingly cast the gay Dick Sergeant. (Although he wasn't out publicly at the time.) Then, when Sergeant came out in '91, Montgomery supported him and the two served together as the grand marshals of the Hollywood pride parade.

Dick Sargent expressed in the 90s what he would want in a Bewitched reunion episode: for Darrin to meet another like couple, a witch and a mortal who are married, and another, and another, and end up forming a whole community and support group, finding out that it was never so uncommon after all, that it was actually "about 10% of the population." The two would march in the first mortals and witches pride parade, saying they should have come out years ago.

In '94, Montgomery had this to say about the queer themes of the show, “Don't think that didn't enter our minds at the time. We talked about it on the set, that this was about people not being allowed to be what they really are. If you think about it, Bewitched is about repression in general and all the frustration and trouble it can cause. It was a neat message to get across to people at that time in a subtle way.” (x)

Interviewer: Are you concerned that your involvement in the gay-pride parade will lead people to believe you're a lesbian?

"[Laughing] I'm really not worried about that. There are bigger things to worry about. Like the presidential election and finding a cure for AIDS. I did the parade in support of Dick. I mean, in the end, didn't we all?" (x) (Montgomery was also one of the first celebrity allies to fight for LGBTQ rights and support HIV/AIDS-related fundraisers.)

So did they talk about it at the time? No. You can bet they didn't speak about it publicly. What would have happened if a fan, publicly, had asked Elizabeth, William, or Dick about the show's queer allegory content? This was a time when being gay was a literal felony. They would have had to have lied or risked losing the show, their careers, and possibly subjecting themselves to violence.

Now. back to Jensen and the Schrodinger's long con:

This was in 2013 - The same year that the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a federal ban on gay marriage. You certainly couldn't call homosexuality illegal in the US at that time. It's the same year that Dabb and Sgriccia spoke about the Aaron moment on the DVD and whether there's 'this potential for love in all places' for Dean. Of course Jensen said this about the very same scene: "But it was - you know - it was comedy. It was a comedic moment in the show and fortunately Dean gets a lot of the comedic moments in the show and it was just, you know, Ben was poking fun at the fact that - you know, how can we make this very kind of manly, heterosexual guy uncomfortable - uh -you know, or or have him back on his heels and throw him off his game a little bit.”

I'm reminded of 2012 when Ben Edlund stepped in about a Destiel question at comic con, pretending it was some freaky thing that fans had made up even though he'd already written and directed TMWWBK, which had already aired.

Jensen: “What’s Destiel?” Ben Edlund: That’s some weird shit. Jensen: Is this something that you created, Ben? Ben: You don’t want any part of that.

Or the next year for season 9 when Jensen said “I think the whole Cas and Dean thing has gotten out of hand” “I don’t think there’s anything secret to their relationship even though a lot of people wish there was” EVEN THOUGH- that season we got the nightstands acknowledgement and Misha (or both of them?) was told to “play him like a jilted lover”

Or Jensen's knowing bromance smile in 2015

I think recent events (cough spn gate) have made clear that the network and many viewers were still uncomfortable with CAS being gay in 2020, deleting even familial mentions of Cas from the finale episodes once he was revealed to be not only gay but also in love with Dean. (x) (x) (x) Can you imagine then what Warner Brothers would have said to an acknowledge bisexual Dean Winchester in 2013? Granted, there was no Trump election, but legitimate, could that have been the end of the show? Or the Russian and Conservative US viewership? Is it possible that Jensen would have feared so?

Is it possible that Jensen had a more personal reason for a knee jerk defensive response?

So was Jensen covering in 2013? Well. This happened 5 years later in 2018:

That hostile "? No." came even though Misha confirmed that he and Jensen had discussed Destiel by that point. Granted, discussing Destiel as a concept and accepting Dean being inherently bisexual are two very different things - Cas is GN after all - still, less than encouraging.

I may never get over the jumps back and forth that Jensen did. At this point I think there's no denying that a lot of SPN's queer content was on purpose, even as writers and actors were telling fans and network execs otherwise. Yet when each person involved was brought in? that question haunts me at night. I have gone off before about the timeline in my pursuit of whether Jensen was Ben Hur'd (x) and, if so, for how long. I'm sure many in this fandom have so much to add.

In the meantime we'll just have to cherish this moment from 2019:

Interviewer: 'So, tell us just a little bit about what you’re most excited to tackle with your character this final season.’ Jensen: “Cas. Just like a full football form tackle.”

Bewitched references in SPN:

2.05 - Dean: Well, it looks like he can't work his mojo just by twitching his nose, he's gotta use verbal commands.

2.20 - Dean says Barbara Eden was hotter than Elizabeth Montgomery - sigh - Dean.

7.05 - Dean thinks a husband has no idea his wife is a witch, and refers to him as Darrin. Dean also indicates he likes the first Darrin better. - (I guess I can't make a comment about how much TV Dean watched as a kid if I get all of his references and also haven't saved the world.)

14.03 - Jules refers to the witch as 'Brunhilde' - this is a minor character in bewitched but more so from mythology and likely referred to the cartoon witch from WB cartoons - the stereotypical witch that faced bugs bunny with the green skin and straw hair.

let me know if you have any to add. Stay Witchy ✌

#jensen ackles #jackles long con #dean was always bi #spn film studies #spn queercoding #Spn tinhatting #ben hur treatment #bewitched #queercoding #Caslighting #Spn gaslighting #elizabeth montgomery #dick sargent #paul lynde #original content #Marion Lorne #Marion Lorne was also in a show called the gay adventure in 1932 but i dont have any information on the plot #and to quote misha. it's probably gay like happy #Schrodinger's long con

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remythologise · 3 years

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You think Misha wrote the Casfession? I find that kind of funny because he has such a good grasp of Cas, better than the writers and the showrunners and everyone else, and to me the Casfession felt a bit... ooc? Like Cas is not a man of many words, and he went tf off. And I know it was his last chance to say something but considering it was almost a spur of the moment decision, I wouldn’t have expected such a long thing from him. But idk?

I think the confession was Berens’ idea, but I think Misha ‘the poet’ Collins made it what it was. His quotes about how the confession ‘lacked punch’ and he gave it ‘strong notes’ make me feel like he added a lot to it. Also the fact Misha came up with the handprint thing... I think he’s given Destiel a lot of thought and a lot of thought about how it can be meaningful. Wildly unpopular opinion here, but I actually am not much of a fan of Berens’ writing overall. I love what he did for Destiel, and some characterisation choices, but the writing on episodes isn’t... that good?* and he’s also done some pretty problematic things - @exitpursuedbyasloth summed it up really well recently in a discussion... these things include killing off Missouri episode, replace Joshua with white man episode, sexualisation of teenage Amara episode... I don’t want to go too much into this but a lot of the time when his episodes don’t have Destiel in them they’re severely unmemorable to me and things I don’t particularly enjoy watching. Like I don’t want us to start cancelling him esp. with what he did for Destiel, but as always your faves are problematic!

There’s other stuff too, outside of SPN - some of it, again credit to @exitpursuedbyasloth:

“Well, he called Sondheim updating one of his plays to include a gay character 'a depressing sign of the times' because gay folks can be happy with subtextual representation. And he kind of blew off criticism of the Stonewall movie (which erased REAL ACTUAL trans people, lesbians, and PoC who were central to the riots, and replaced them with a Midwestern White Cis Man), because it was 'just a movie'. Which is a bad excuse even for a fictional movie, much less one based on a real event with real people. It just kinda bothers me.”

In general I think there’s like, a vibe (from both Misha and Berens!) that Cas was going to be a tragic character with an unreciprocated love story. (Yes, I am referring to the ‘Dean can’t reciprocate’ in the script and Misha implying that in the panel). So I have... criticisms of those choices.

Actually strongly disagree that it was OOC! And even if it was I wouldn’t care because every word of that speech was completely and utterly necessary to Castiel, Dean, their relationship and the plot! I think Cas is filled with love and emotions but he’s always been trained into the Winchester way of repression because that is simply how Dean functions. But this was Castiel being selfish for once and everything he had ever felt was going to come out, for once he didn’t care about Dean’s discomfort. If anything I would have liked to see more words that vindicated that love story bring out the scripts and cut takes pls and Cas’ queerness because genuinely probably the most important moment of SPN (just for representation, not even for the ship).

*in fairness to Berens, it’s often hard to tell what is director/showrunner/editor/actor intervention when it comes to the final product. For example, we know that the argument between Dean and Cas in 15.03 was changed heavily by Dabb.

#me lowkey not liking berens: i choose to believe misha wrote this :)#but like also feel like I have evidence for that #also bc as I said his writing is not usually that good. lol. I'm sorry #just because he is gay does not mean he is above criticism too!#supernatural spoilers #spn spoilers #ask #anonymous

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cosmicwavelength · 4 years

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Musings on: Castiel

This probably doesn’t truly fit into my SPN blog but I found it vaguely important enough to mention, and it does have something to do with Castiel.

More specifically Castiel telling Dean that he loves him. But maybe viewed from a different perspective, maybe not, and you have already thought of this...

Now, I know that technically Castiel is made of celestial waves of intent and his vessel is male but, for this purpose, I’ll just go with the interpretation that Jimmy has left the party back in Swan Song and Chuck refurbished the vessel so it’s actually Cas’.

So, Castiel is male, who is in love with another man. And he confessed that in Despair (15x18). He is not straight (he wouldn’t be anyway bc he’s not human). But he’s not heteronormative if we want to be picky. My point is, in that episode he explicitly came out of the proverbial closet of the show. And I know many were elated about that, I being one of them. But I also feel like the focus shouldn’t have lain on the character finally being textually non-straight. I hope it was more about him confessing his love, no matter the gender. It’s 2020 not the 1970s or earlier. And I’m aware that I’m speaking from a place of privilege here, living in a progressive country, but my focus lies specifically on the act of coming out and how it shouldn’t be needed. Not on how it shouldn’t be a thing to be proud and happy about.

As someone whose also not straight. I always found sort of a disconnect between what people think it’s like to “come out” and what reality actually is like. The world doesn’t stop when you tell others finally that you’re gay. You’re technically still the same person you were yesterday. It’s just that you came to accept a part of you. And I’m not trying to devalue anyone’s experience. It is important, it can be, that’s only privy to you. But the world keeps turning. And I think that’s kind. I think it’s a good thing and not a bad thing that confetti doesn’t rain from the sky and that a black gooey monster doesn’t come for your neck.

Like, guys, it’s ok to be all the parts of what feels honest to you. And that was why I thought Castiel’s love confession was beautiful. To quote Misha Collins himself:

“He’s openhearted and he’s selfless and he’s true.”

Much Love,

M xxx

#castiel #spn spoilers #spn 15x18 #musings on series #about me #why I love Castiel and why I love Misha

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yeet-me-into-oblivion-please · 5 years

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Well, Supernatural is actually ending and I don't know what I'll do

[ Brevity is not a strong suit of mine since I've included personal details but there's stuff I feel everyone in the SPN family needs to read]

You might be expecting another post about how Supernatural saved someone's life and how devastated they will be when it ends because they've watched it for so long as well as how the actors have impacted their lives. This is probably one of those but please hear me out.

Supernatural premiered in 2005 and I was in preparatory class (aged 5 years and was before I began 1st grade). I heard of it because my aunt would watch it time to time so I'd also tried to get some peeks myself but I wasn't allowed to because it was "too scary".

Then our local cable began to show seasons 1-5 and that was when everyone in class started watching and quoting it. This was in 6th grade and I was frustrated because I knew about it before most of them yet they acted like it was a new show. I had a fair idea about the story but once I began watching it, I fell in love with it and loved it like a part of my soul.

Yes, Jensen Ackles was my first crush but I still thought (and do think) that both he and Jared are super hot. So I was sucked into this vortex, this Neverland which I never thought I would end.

I joined Tumblr for this show in 2013 because I saw the jokes about there being a Supernatural gif everywhere and wanted to be a part of the fandom/community. This was also the year I actually became interested what other fans felt though I never used this site properly until 2016 I would read the IMDb discussion boards because I hated scurrying through Destiel-infested posts.

(Fun fact:I wasn't using any social media of my own but on my mother's Facebook I liked a Supernatural fan page asking people's opinions on Destiel. This is was around the time season 8 was just finishing or had already finished so I read the comments--- people talked about Dean and Castiel being gay and didn't approve of it as there was this one girl who was conservative and didn't believe in homosexuality while others went on how Dean was always a ladies man which I agreed with. Not that I commented but I thought there was something I missed and I thought Castiel used Dean as a vessel, thus Destiel.)

But I digress. I was in deep by the time season 9 premiered and majority of the people I knew stopped watching the show except for this girl who bullied me throughout preschool who put up this update that Dean had become a demon. I doubt she watches the show now but it was hard seeing her put pictures of "I heart Dean Winchester" and pictures of Jensen when my mom asked me why I don't do the same.

Supernatural, I feel, has become that embarrassing thing you are into in middle school but suddenly drop when you're older, looking back and thinking, "Yeesh, I can't believe I used to watch this show."

I'll be a grown woman at 30 or 40 and probably eventually in my 70s and 80s but I will still look back fondly, the good, the bad and the ugly because I have like many teenagers have undergone many changes (friends, family, emotions, hobbies etc) but Supernatural has always been this constant in my life.

Because let me tell you, I'm seeing these posts saying stuff like how people are glad that it's finally over with its "bullshit" and that's it's dying. That is extremely disrespectful and insensitive to those people who literally live for it, who have invested time and money into it: gif makers, artists, meta writers (I may not agree with you guys but even you count). They don't know what to do once the show ends because it has helped them in ways others will never ever be able to fathom.

I saw the video put up by the guys. I saw and I could tell that Jared, Jensen and Misha had probably cried their guts out before the announcement because their eyes were red and puffy. Jared was controlling himself by talking less as Jensen was clearly on the verge as well but yes they said that they should save the angst for next year.

I love the guys; I love Jared being a goofball and Jensen being equally goofy as well and I'll say this too, I used to enjoy some of Misha's crass jokes (not the highlight ) as well which was why I looked forward to the gag reel every summer (because of J2) because it was cathartic after a traumatic season finale. I love the witty banter and the pranks the cast would do and I will miss it tremendously.

I have some issues with my aunt but everything would be okay when we would fawn over the guys and bingewatch the entire season the summer after it finished airing. We'd quote quotes back and forth and even spiritually killed ourselves watching short clips of "Sammy, close your eyes", "I'm proud of us" etc. Hell, she even promised me that when we go visit my uncle in the States we'd attend a con together.

If, and whenever we do go, it'll be different because the show won't be on air anymore and I know for a fact that I won't feel the anticipation of an episode.

So don't say disrespectful and callous things like "fucking finally". You can dislike the cast/plotline/show but don't ridicule and mock those who invested in the show,some of you are most probably speculating and have barely seen it.

I'm not some dumb, blind fan. I can see some stupid mistakes and don't always eat up what the writers show. For example, everyone must have figured that I dislike Destiel because it's based on groundless assumptions. I thought the Bloodlines was a crap idea that had nothing to do with the main plot and knew it was destined to fail.

As for Wayward Daughters/Sisters or whatever the fuck it was supposed to be called, I was not looking forward to it at all because it was one of those "forced diversity" shows, y'know gender bent stuff.

I felt that they were bastardising everything that Supernatural has and will (always) stand for because some people had a hair up their backsides. Yeah, I loathed Claire and that Kaia mourning thing was bullshit. Thank goodness I was sick that day and couldn't keep my eyes open for that episode.

If we were told that there would be a Men of Letters(with Henry Winchester) or even a Bobby-Rufus spinoff I would be okay with that but for now since the show will finish next year let's the wounds heal first, shall we?

I hope that Jared and Jensen get some offers once the show is done and I will pay good money to see movies, TV shows of them etc but for now I will keep quiet since I hope we get an ending we (and the boys) deserve.

Yes, the writer situation scares me and I think they should call Eric Kripke for a last hurrah. I mean, it is his baby and he should get to have a say in the series finale as well as J2.

Will one of the brothers die and the other will live (I'm worried we'll get a reverse Swan Song)? Will they both die leaving Cas behind and Jack as some sort legacy who trains future hunters? That would be a possibility since the sheriff in 14.16 asked the Winchesters why they don't tell people about monsters. What happens to Baby?

I seriously doubt the ending will be happy(maybe not 100%) but the best thing would be if they go driving with Baby into the sunset...

Dean at the steering wheel with Sam riding shotgun, where they should be ---- where they will always be, home. Dean plays his "mullet rock" as Sam would playfully mock his brother's musical choices. No chick flick moments. Just the Winchesters.

The boys need to lay their weary heads to rest, so they can cry no more. Because they are the legendary Winchesters, the hunters who saved the world countless times unbeknownst to many. I don't think their work will ever be done but there will be peace when they are done and how they will reach that point we'll never know till 2020.

Everyone will hear "Carry on wayward son" for the last time ever in Supernatural over a painful montage of "Dad's gone on a hunting trip and he hasn't been home in a few days" and "Saving people, hunting things, the family business". Now who in this fandom wouldn't be wracked with pain?

This is the show we all joked about that made a deal with the devil to never go off air but I did expect this a long time ago. Only thing was that I didn't know how I'd treat the news. I was that person who would go, "pfft, of course Supernatural would get renewed". Then again, this was the show that an ending was imminent and the whole season 4 debacle about Misha and the angel storyline saving the show blah blah blah.

So next year, everyone will flock to see the finale and epic conclusion to the Winchester saga whether they stopped at season 5,6,7 or 10,12. Diss it all you want for the shit show it may have become but wherever you left off, you may still want to know what happens to Sam and Dean Winchester in the end.

Once Supernatural ends, I'll turn 20 next summer and I would like to think of it being poetic that I end my adolescence with a show I have loved when I brave the cold, ruthless world of adulthood. I'm a picky person and can't say what's my favorite xyz is but you know what I'll say about my favorite TV show.

We will have completed 327 episodes which is the highest for a scifi TV show so I do hope the boys get some sort of recognition. It was us crazy bitches and jerks that gave the show the mileage and it was us that gave Jared and Jensen faith that they could carry on so for the remainder of season 14 and for 15,support these guys. Support these annoyingly sexy and ridiculously hilarious dudes for this show. I'm sure Jared and Jensen love the show like it's their kid practically but I wish everyone would just shut up, tinhatters, bronlies, stans, destihellers because we are all fans of the one show so let's ease the time we have left.

But seriously imagine Sam and Dean on a desert highway, the orange and yellow rays of the setting sun make Baby shine in all her splendor which makes Dean swell with pride. He starts the engine with a low rumble and they're off. They might to California to feel the sand beneath their feet or to Disneyland. They're living the "apple pie life" and this is their personal heaven : with each other.

I wouldn't mind this playing in the background if the ending is the inevitable and unspeakable you know what :

It's wishful thinking, since I wish they'd actually play some Zeppelin instead of song titles being used as episode titles but I wish they could use some Queen or Guns n Roses and stuff before 1979 because everything sucked ass afterwards according to Dean.

I want the classic rock resurgence in the show as well but I know they'll end up using the cash elsewhere. I wouldn't mind a body swap episode but if wishes were horses, right?

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alittlefrenchtree · 5 years

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Armie Hammer & Fans

Working title was : Why I think Armie doesn’t love his fans and why I’m okay with that but I figure I didn’t need to be that provocative. And, when I say doesn’t love, I don’t actually mean hate or despite, only that I think he hasn’t any particular huge feelings towards fans of his — so not point of using the first title.

Here is why.

PART I -- YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND FANS UNLESS YOU ARE ONE YOURSELF

Every time I become fan of someone (it has happened quite a few times over the past 25 last years), I’m always interested to see if they are fans themselves or not. And I’m not talking about fans like ‘I-love-this-movie-so-much-I-saw-it-three-times’, I’m talking about crazy-over-the-top-freaks who knows everything about everything, spent thousand of hours talking about everything, create, wait hours on a red carpet, travel hundreds of miles, turned fandom-mutuals into lifetime friends… like most us down here. My opinion is that you can’t understand how important it feels unless you’ve been here yourself because I don’t think anybody (and certainly not self-deprecating Armie) is full of himself enough to really understand what it means and what they represent for fans. And why is it important ? Because it highlights behavior in different ways. (side note : parallels with Timmy aren’t for saying who’s better than who between but because they’re radically different on that level and I know everybody knows what I’m talking about when I take Timmy as an example). My point is, when Timmy saw people waiting and freezing on a red carpet or stan accounts on social media, he knows who much even the smallest gestures can meant for people on the other side, because he has been (still is on some levels) there. Armie hadn’t. He doesn’t even understand why people are happy to take a selfie with him if it the only thing they get. I don’t think he realize how much difference in people happiness he makes when he’s giving and when he’s not.

PART II -- BACKGROUND

I haven’t real proofs for what I’m going to say in this part but I do think the more wealthy you are, the less chances you have to become a fan yourself or to understand the phenomenon. I guess having money take a little bit of the fascination for rich, famous people away — but mostly because you evolve on the same circles. Armie being a Hammer, I guess he has occasionally see and hear about « famous » people (in various areas) while growing up (and during his whole life), preventing him again for fully understanding that kind of relationship between known people and fans. I don’t think you can become fan of someone you already know. And, while he certainly haven’t met every artist he admires yet, I think he has quite early in his life seen and been around enough to not idealize/idolize people or understand how people could do that and, on the contrary, be quite suspicious about them.

PART III -- THE TRUST ISSUE

Again, no proofs, just theories based on what makes sense to me. Given the shape of his career (and his general personality/ lack of self esteem), I think he may have trust issue towards fans. He said it himself, there were several times during his career where people has said to him « this is your moment, this is your time ». I guess fans had told him, after The Social Network, before Lone Ranger or before Man From Uncle, that they loved him and his work and were fan of his. I’m not saying they were lying or that he thinks they were lying. I’m only saying that, if he had sometimes considered fans as a whole instead of as many individualities, he may has thought, at these particular times of his career, that fans (in general) had let him down. I’m not blaming anybody on box-office flops I’m just trying to explain what it may feels like to be a lead or one of the leads and see that kind of situation happened in more than one occasion. Again, I’m not saying that Armie is resentful towards fans because of that. If it’s true, maybe he isn’t even aware of these feels. But I think because he feels like he can’t trust people as audience and support, he may have shift his priorities and his focus and what he thinks is important. Maybe he doesn’t really feel like investing himself for people who may come and go in the blink of a eye.

PART IV -- « I DON’T THINK HE’S ARROGANT. I THINK HE’S SHY. » (thanks Papa for the quote)

Here, in France, we have a singer called Emmanuel Moire. I’m not a fan of his but I listen to a few of his interviews (because he’s very sweet and his story is very sad) and I remember him saying that, before coming-out to his fans, he didn’t feel like he was really connecting with them (and certainly not like he’s doing it now, after the coming-out). DON’T YELL AT ME, this isn’t me saying that Armie’s gay (my vision of sexuality is not trivial enough to be explain with labels). My point is, when you aren’t fully true to yourself or when you’re hiding, it’s harder to connect with people, especially with people who love you. It’s harder to accept love when you don’t love yourself in the first place. Why am I saying that Armie isn’t fully true to himself ? Because Armie said it himself.

I’ve had conversations before with Guadagnino where he discusses actors, and it’s uncanny how well he can zero in on the locus of a star’s appeal, laying bare what makes that actor tick. It’s more than just a party trick: Guadagnino is simply that good at reading people. I wondered, then, if he had ever analyzed Hammer to his face. “I think he knows that if he would describe me to me, it would crush me,” Hammer said with a laugh. “He’s never even tried, and I’m so appreciative.” [Source]

PART V -- A RELATIONSHIP THAT NEEDS TO GROW

…and to grow under the right circumstances.

We know Armie basically hates everything that is linked to being famous. He doesn’t particularly enjoy doing promo. He doesn’t like having to do fittings for new clothes every 3 seconds (the guy own 1 suit, 1 pair of new balance and two sweaters, after all), he doesn’t like awards shows or selfies and his love-hate relationship with social media isn’t really helping either. I don’t know where exactly he puts fans in all of that but I think that, as much as he enjoys the recognition and knowing people enjoy his work, the concept itself of having fans as he probably sees it, isn’t something he digs very much. But relationships between artists and fans aren’t things set in stone. Like any relationship, they need to grow and to be built. Best example I’ve got here, is Jensen Ackles. When Jensen has started to do fan cons, he was so shy and uncomfortable with the whole thing but, through the course of the years, he learned a lot (partly thanks to Jared Padalecki first and then Misha Collins, so I’m kinda hoping Timmy will do the same with him during sequel time) by meeting people, sitting with them and hearing their personal stories. And now he’s a master at fan cons. I think Armie would enjoy meeting fans if he wasn’t meeting them as fans but as people. Having a chat, grabbing a beer. Exactly like he said in that GQ interview. And maybe it’s the only point for which I think he could do better if he’s willing to. Because first, he needs to understand that (even he can’t wrap his mind around it) it’s fucking terrifying and mind blowing for fans to meet him and that if some encounters are a little bit awkward, it’s because most fans try to be quick and not bother people too much when they’re meeting someone famous. Second, because he’s also up to him to create the good opportunities for these kind of moments. Like that plane girl with Timmy. I would love for Armie to have something like that (minus the full report on twitter and the headlines would have shadow the whole experience for him (maybe for Timmy too)). Maybe not in economic, because, well, he’s Armie Hammer, but something like that nevertheless. It probably won’t happen anytime soon, because of everything I just wrote but I think it would be good for him. And he has time.

Ok, now I’m dead on my feet so I don’t even know if any of this is making any sense. I’m crossing fingers. I’ve probably forgotten a lot of important stuff so expect a lot of yelling from me to me and a lot of reblogs to add things in the next few days. If I’ve been unclear with something, please let me know ;-).

#armie hammer #it's rambling time again #I've been wanting to write this thing for months #I'm glad it's done #even if it's done poorly hahaha

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almaasi · 6 years

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reaction post typed while watching the HawaiiCon/HonCon Jensen and Misha (and Jared) panel !!!

AKSDSJFLDKFG COCKLES (their first date?????? omg)

@bowleggedcharmer gave me this video

http://rosewhipped22.tumblr.com/post/167703562273/ibelieveinthelittletreetopper

but this was in the youtube recommended bar with a better view (and extends past where the other one leaves off)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbFku0X4aAg&ab_channel=SPNConGirl

07:53pm

i am so underprEPARED

07:54

i think it starts with jared + jensen + misha

okay here goes. this is gonna drain all my energy for the rest of the day

07:58

just jared talking to rob about being tall rn

07:59

misha: “to be able to walk around in the forest and see the underside of mushrooms??”

misha is so much funnier than everyone else dear god

i teared up earlier because of his “i wish for this” campaign trying to combat homelessness for women and kids

he is the best person

like....... the best person

08:02

oh right this is a misha+jared panel?? and jensen comes in later i guess. unsure if i should just skip to the cockles or what

naaah i’ll watch the whole thing because misha

08:05

https://youtu.be/2ZVG00_Xv0Q?t=5m5s

was misha pinching mark sheppand’s nipple or mark pellegrino’s??

ah, sheppard. jared is pretending to be short

(did pellegrino get banned from cons in the end??)

JARED’S MARK ACCENT IS ALARMINGLY WEIRDLY ACCURATE BUT WOW OKAY

08:12

jared is so easily distracted by himself

08:13

https://youtu.be/2ZVG00_Xv0Q?t=9m30s

whatever music jared is playing i love it and also recognise it WHAT IS THAT

08:15

when misha sings it makes my heart feel happy

08:17

https://youtu.be/2ZVG00_Xv0Q?t=12m10s

fan: “interesting to see dean and cas go do their thing--”

jared” whOA WHoa WHoa” *plays romantic music*