Alrighty- Whaddya think of this?

I’ve been rewatching the show and am now at season 8. I shake my head at all the known moments in the show that hellers claim are canon ship bs, because you’d have to be stretch Armstrong to reach that far..

But something did nag me. There were times that Cas WAS the emotional support for Dean where I really thought it should have been Sam conversing with him. For the majority of the series we saw Dean be the caretaker, emotional support etc for Sam, and it never really came from anyone else- lest he was being manipulated by some evil person. However there were many times where that wasn’t reciprocated on screen. Cas would almost stand in for Sam when Dean needed someone, showed Dean a lot of compassion. (Please believe I’m being objective and not a stan in hiding). I think THAT dynamic confused people. Why didn’t they have Sam having those convos with Dean more? I mean, narratively I understand the need for Cas to move the plot forward with his specific role, but so many times it was an angsty Dean who I think NEEDED his BROTHER more than a convo with Cas. Now there are people who just wanted to sexualize Jensen/Dean and couldn’t possibly be linked the wincest as their puritan sensibilities just wouldn’t allow them. But OTHER fans seemed to have latched on to the dynamic of Dean and Cas because they saw Dean have emotional moments with him.

Now during my rewatch it pissed me off, because I realized that the writers were making some conscious choices to have Sam NOT fill that role for Dean. Like it seemed like they went out of their way at times to make Sam seem more indifferent to Dean. This is why- wildly unpopular opinion here- I didn’t like Sera Gamble! I think she isolated Sam away from Dean and had Cas fill in for Sam. That codependent brother thing I LIVE FOR, was kinda washed out during her seasons (in my opinion), but more so from one side. I think she didn’t really like Dean, period, but whereas I know Sam fans LOVE Gamble, I think she mischaracterized Sam a lot.

In my mind, Sam is just as in love with Dean as Dean is with him (whether that be wincest or brotherly is up to your interpretation). You remember when Rowena started really having a relationship with Sam? And then Jack, too? That was really the first time we’ve seen Sam have that type of side character interaction depth. It’s why Sam fans love those two characters because they related to Sam! Well, isn’t that why Dean fans loved Cas, too?

I dunno I’m ranting and probably make no sense, but I was definitely annoyed with the writers in quite a bit if my rewatch during seasons 4-7 because it seemed such a purposeful choice to NOT show Sam being for Dean what they chose to show Cas being. I think knot blurred the lines and did such a disservice to Sam. Ironically, I think Carver rectified this a lot! Even with the angst and separation, Carver’s seasons demonstrably showed the codependency and intense brotherly love. I prefer seasons 1-3 and then all of Carver’s seasons!

I couldn't remember any instances of Dean leaning on Castiel when there wasn't some obvious reason it wasn't a conversation with Sam. So I went through season by season, and ultimately, I think you have to look at what the plot arc between the brothers is. As I've said before, the one thing that I actually like about Dabb as a showrunner is finally dropping the constant circling back to brother conflict drama that, to me at least, felt more and more artificial. Even if we're talking about seasons 4-7, we have to start at the beginning, because I think the first three seasons are pointedly bringing the brothers back together closer than ever in preparation for all the apocalypse shenanigans to attempt to tear them apart.

In terms of Dean opening up, specifically, consider what happens in those seasons between them from Dean's perspective.

In season four, he comes back from hell traumatized only to realize Sam has been lying to him about using his powers and working with Ruby. When he asks Sam to explain because he's scared of the powers, Sam refuses to talk about it and says he wouldn't understand (4x04). So how can it be a surprise that when he wants to talk in the next episode, it's Jamie the bartender he chooses instead? Is it really strange he basically mirrors what Sam said about Dean not being able to understand when Sam confronts him about what Uriel said regarding him remembering hell (4x08)? Castiel (4x07) and Anna (4x10) conversing with Dean are more about their own fears and insecurities more than Dean's. When Dean does finally open up and is ready to actually talk about what happened in hell, it is to Sam (4x11). Except, it's pretty soon after that (4x14) where Sam throws it back in his face under the influence of the siren, calling him a weak, whiny burden who is just holding Sam back. Can it really be a surprise then that, again, next time Dean opens up it's to Tessa (4x15)? And then, when the doubts are basically exactly what Sam said, i.e. that the apocalypse really is too big for him to deal with and he is scared, he says it to Castiel instead (4x16)? Which I think is only validated to Dean when Sam says the same kind of thing all over again without the siren's influence when they fight in 4x21. They're in conflict and being torn in opposite directions, which is kind of the point. Actually communicating – if they both weren't too stubborn to do it – would basically halt season 4's entire plot in its tracks.

Without making this post five miles long, those kinds of things happen again and again in 5-7, too. Sam is literally not there to talk to when he leaves at the beginning of the season, and they don't get back together because they've actually sorted out all the shit between them from the previous events, but because Sam has realized he can't get out and Dean doesn't trust that Sam will continue to say no to Lucifer if they're apart. So when Dean opens up, it's to his hallucination of a therapist instead of Sam. Blow after blow follows thereafter. What they see of Sam's heaven being an entire absence of Dean. Everyone leaving Dean to grieve at Lisa's for a year knowing Sam is back(ish) the whole time. Soulless!Sam's actions, which (as unfair as it might be) Dean clearly had trouble separating out from regular Sam's. Sam's sanity hanging on by a wall, then being plagued by Hallucifer. Similar big conflicts and obstacles to frank conversation continue on into seasons 8 and 9, too.

I think you can fairly go fifty layers deep into what's going on in both of their heads in any of those instances and see where they're coming from, but Dean isn't going to be doing that as the one living it. From his perspective? There are a lot of reasons to not open up to Sam because of what's going on in their lives and how they each feel about it. So sometimes he does open up to others – which includes Castiel.

I definitely remember way back when I was a multishipper that a lot of D/C shippers said they started shipping the ship because Castiel didn't have that fraught history with Dean that Sam does with all the conflicts and misunderstandings. That's fine (although IMO it hardly held true for very long). However, to me it seems like Dean is just as likely to turn to a stranger (or the hallucination of one) as he is to turn to Castiel instead of Sam, so I don't really see it as some huge thing in the canon that really justifies thinking the ship is anything but certain fans over-investing in what they particularly like. I also think that Sam was just less and less likely to open up to anyone at all as the series went on – but when he does, it was also often with Castiel or Jody or Charlie or Rowena instead of Dean. Because the season conflict didn't rely on them being unable to communicate effectively with those other characters and the judgement of those other characters couldn't do as much damage if it was negative.

None of that even gets into the whole other issue of the underlying dynamics carried over from their childhood which also plays into things. Where Dean still sees his primary purpose as protecting Sam as his little brother rather than always seeing him as a true partner. Where he has self-worth and abandonment issues that make him unable to understand why Sam would value him and not be able to just get over his death. Where Sam is not only all too aware that Dean doesn't value himself and gets frustrated with that? But has spent so long fighting against what everyone else wants from him that he still sometimes treats Dean as a substitute for authority instead of a partner and pushes back at any disagreement with his (not always as) brilliant (as he thinks) plans as “bossing him around”? Where he also gets very agitated whenever Dean is not okay because he needs Dean to be okay to the point he insistently tries to fix it by making Dean talk when Dean isn't ready to. In short, they both have huge underlying issues that skew how they see each other and they're both stubborn as hell.

Then when you add on top of that how the writers had such a tendency to revolve the action arcs around Sam and the emotional ones around Dean as the viewpoint character that Sam's emotions and thoughts often seem like a mysterious locked box through large parts of the series? I do get why some fans can read that as Sam being indifferent to Dean, but I don't think that's the underlying intention or the case. Because of that focus choice, to a large extent we only see how badly Sam needs Dean when there's a threat of Dean not being there or Dean is taken away – but I would argue that we do really see it then. From not caring about Marshall Hall to wanting to try Doc Benton's solution to trying to suicide by demon to initially allowing himself to be manipulated by Ruby to taking on his Cage memories to the Rowena and Oskar debacle to how his montage life was entirely blurry except for his son and his grief over Dean.

Notice the people mad about the joke aren't mad at Mark. Just jensen. That says it all to me. Whatever suits their agenda. As they've claimed mark as one of the good ones. In their strange heads. They're frothing at the mouth on twitter, over a comment no one involved will ever think of again. All over an incident that happened two and half years ago. Isn't that just insane?

Funny how that works, isn't it? Except it's not, because there's a fair extent to which it's always been like this. They were totally fans of Jensen too, totes for realzies - exactly as long as they could use Jensen-as-sidekick constantly talking up Jared and the bro bond as the center of SPN as proof of Jared's inherent superiority. Long before prequelgate, any time Jensen did something without Jared, didn't mention him enough in an interview, or took a picture with Misha or whatever? Plenty of these supposed J2 fans? Turned on Jensen as fast as hellers do when he shoots their fantasies down. Blah blah narcissist, blah blah copycat blah blah he sucks and is boring and clearly needs Jared, blah blah who does he think he is?!? Prequelgate was just their cue to go totally mask-off since SPN was over - and they hilariously keep patting themselves on the back for their "restraint" at trying to pretend (not half as well as they seem to think they did, tbh) not to be unhinged solo stans like the AAs all along. They really think that dismissing Jensen and the entire rest of the cast as irrelevant losers who are not worth the money because Jared isn't there is somehow substantially different and less daft than the AAs calling Jensen an A lister and Jared a nobody because ... they use different words, I guess? Even though it's blatantly the exact same "my fave is the only one that matters and the only REAL star lol" bullshit.

Right at this particular moment, even if it wasn't more important to their agenda to "prove" how terrible Jensen is compared to Jared, Mark S. is already part of their agenda as "proof" that the important and actually talented members of the cast obviously liked Jared better since he did WI. It'd change in a heartbeat if he did a project with Jensen. Like how Rob posting a group picture that doesn't include Jared is "suspicious" and Rich joking about Jared's pranking on set was "probably an insult" since they cameoed in TW. How very dare those nobodies pick the wrong "side"?!?

Except those sides don't exist anywhere except in their heads and no normal person is going to give a shit about the random minutiae stans on either side keep insisting are very important clues to the REAL story of the totally REAL conflict of Jensen versus Jared. Because random obsessively overinvested internet weirdos ready to be hair-triggered into taking offense in the name of the fantasy version of an actor in their heads know better than the real people involved - that makes sense, right? 🤪

any thoughts on the latest “I thought it was the Jared padalecki show” drama from Liverpool comic con? It’s towards the end of the panel. And if you hadn’t heard about it…would love your fresh opinion.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised there's drama because it's well nigh impossible for there not to be drama in this fandom, but they were obviously joking around - and it's not even the first time Jensen and Mark have told a version of that same joke on stage.

Back at Vancon22, one of the cons Jared missed, when Mark joined Jensen and Misha onstage for the main panel, they had this exchange:

Mark S.: [laughing] I missed you guys! I really missed you guys, it's been a while.

Jensen: How's it goin', big guy?

Mark S.: It's going good. I'm working for Jared now.

Jensen: That's what I hear.

Mark S.: Yeah.

Jensen: But let's be honest, haven't we always been working for Jared?

Mark S.: [cracks up] It's a long way up there, the air is thin. I'm working for the moose. How you doin'?

Compare that to the exchange from this weekend's panel from Liverpool Comicon 23, where Jensen has been telling the story about Misha's weird first impression and them not knowing the plan for the character:

Sam Smith: I don't think any of us were supposed to stay more than a minute.

Jensen: What? Yeah. I wasn't either. This was supposed to be the Jared Padalecki show. [chuckles]

Mark: I thought it was? [laughs][Jensen cracks up] Well, he thought it was.

Jensen: Still does. Um, so [continues story]

Let me guess, the loony Jensen stans are smugly insisting that Jensen is totally 100% serious and taking a legit dig at Jared who he can't actually stand, see see!?! And the loony Jared stans are pissed off and talking shit because how very dare Jared's friends who actually personally know him joke about him in a way they don't approve of?!? If only these competent professional actors would let their creepily overinvested fans with major projection issues dictate their lives for them!

What do you think about Jensen giving different answer when he was asked about Dean's regret for the second time? They were asked the same question in previous con and both times Jared mentioned Amelia but first time Jensen said "Dean has no regrets" and you know the recent answer 💀 did he spend some time thinking about it or did he receive some backlash for saying Dean has no regrets

I don't think it necessarily has to be either?

In fandom, we spend a lot of time rewatching and dissecting and rehashing every little thing a million times. Backwards, forwards, and upside down. And then we often get very entrenched in our opinions about those things to the point we wouldn't not think of them.

The actors don't really go back over and over things like that - and I actually think that's a good thing because it's more like how a person's memory of events that happened to them would work? Some things may really make an impression such that they're always right there, but others may come and go from the forefront of our recollection. Jared has been talking about how much he disliked the Amelia storyline pretty much since that season, because it really sticks out that much to him. But there are other questions about favorite/least favorite scenes or characters or relationships or whatever that have changed for both Js from one asking to the next seemingly dependant on what comes to mind that day.

So I think it's just as likely that someone said something to Jensen about Castiel's death during the weekend and it just happened to be on his mind when the question came up as it is that he spent any extra time since last time thinking about it or worrying about butthurt reactions. On a different day, or to a slightly different version of the question? He might repeat either of those answers - or say something else entirely.

misha collins basically just sent out a text saying spn is "really dead" (but not friendship, yayyyy!)

I mean, Misha is consistently full of shit and often specifically in a blatantly manipulative way.

So aside from speculating whether he's about to try and offload ugly merch on a similar theme or is trying to rile up the minions for some other specific scam purpose... so what? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am not sure how long you have been in the SPN fandom (I have only been in it for 3 years) but I was wondering has the infighting about which J is actually the better one always been a thing? I sometimes see some fans really hating on them for what seems like very petty reasons and projecting all kinds of jealously, codependence, and envious behavior especially onto Jensen. I love Jared but the way some Jared fans act like Jensen has or had some creepy obsession with him makes me wonder if this is something that has always been around or manifested more after the prequel situation.

It's been around 11 years for me, being properly in the fandom. I binged the series just in time to catch the start of season 8 airing real-time, and came to tumblr when I realized fanfic was not going to scratch the itch of sharing speculation about what would happen next. So far as I'm aware, from personal observation and seeing people who've been around longer talking about the what the fandom was like? It's always been a thing to some extent, but the extent has varied a lot depending on when and what part of the fandom you're in.

The extreme Jensen stans - generally called Ackles Army (AAs) - have always been upfront and loud about hating Jared over anything and everything - almost literally to the point of insisting he's breathing wrong. They overlap a lot with hellers because of a generally shared desire to get Jared off SPN and away from Jensen, convinced he was in the way/holding Jensen back/throwing jealous tantrums to control Jensen and the show/whatthefuckever.

While some extreme Jared stans didn't bother to hide, a lot of them insisted they were totally fans of both prior to prequelgate and maybe some were - to an extent. For the most part they could blend in, because most of the time? Jensen and Jared were in pretty synchronous agreement - doing publicity together, agreeing the brother bond was the center of the show, not really doing a lot of other projects, etc. But over time, long before prequelgate, well it just always so happened that if either J got solo attention or there was some perceived difference? According to these supposed bibros, Jared was not capable of even considering making a bad decision ever, while nearly everything Jensen did alone was somehow embarrassing or suspect and supposedly reflected badly on him. They didn't necessarily want Jensen to go away, just know his place as the cheerleading subordinate. Of course now that Jensen and Jared are doing separate projects and attention for Jensen does not automatically mean attention to Jared, with the handy kickoff of prequelgate to claim extra totes legit justification over that misunderstanding they sorted out in a single phone call ... well, here we are.

By and large the AAs/hellers have always been more extreme - in terms of sheer quantity of assholes openly wishing not just failure but actual harm on Jared and sending death threats to him and other fans. But in terms of petty back and forth bullshit dragging the actors, these days they openly do a lot of the exact same nonsense: J is ugly! J is an alcoholic/druggie! J is a complete failure post-SPN! J is abusive to fave!J! J is obviously jealous of fave!J/trying to sabotage fave!J! J only did X because fave!J did Y so much better! Only fave!J was essential to the show, it was his character's story!

Both sides are constantly justifying themselves with the ol' OMG THEY STARTED IT! nonsense. Sure, the self-serving justifications differ just a little where the Jensen stans pretend to be amnesiac and blind to the really gross and reprehensible shit sent directly to Jared and basically everything the real Jensen says, while the Jared stans insist no one should object to anything they say because at least it's not wishing death on anybody (despite how much they lose their shit over even the petty nonsense when it's being directed at Jared). As if it's not obviously a constant back and forth of copycat stupid that has everything to do with each side trying to "prove" their personal superiority in being fans of The Better J by talking shit on the internet.

What is the reason for jenmish fans' constant assertion that J2 friendship is a PR stunt?

I mean, short version is that they've decided Jared Padalecki is personally oppressing them by existing and want everything in the universe to validate their insistence he's a Bad Person that No One Likes. He's totally in the way and if he were to disappear tomorrow, both their RPF and SPN ship fantasies would immediately come true!

As to the RPF, it's about winning the "prize" of Jensen in the stupid shipwar back and forth. It doesn't actually matter if they spend half their time talking about how shitty and homophobic (or whatever) Jensen is, they want him to have chosen their fave over the other guy - as surely anyone would given the choice between stinky Jared and saint Misha! But if you look at the way Jensen and Misha interact versus the way Jensen and Jared interact ... well that's a bit of a problem for anyone with eyes and/or ears plus at least two working brain cells. So J2's friendship has to be a PR stunt for them to win. If you're ITK you can see that J2 actually hate each other but continue to be FORCED TOGETHER AGAINST THEIR WILLS while Misha and Jensen are the REAL BFFs!!! It's true, somebody on tumblr.com told me so!

As to SPN itself, it's tied up in their attempts to "prove" SPN's story was no longer about Sam at all but centered on D/C and everybody knew it and wanted it that way. Which of course means they need someone to blame for why it didn't actually happen, but it can't be Jensen's fault because they need him to act out their fantasies when they eventually get their way. So someone has to be at fault for why Jensen can't tell them how he REALLY feels about D/C and Jared/Sam don't matter anyway. Aha! Jensen must only constantly talk about the brothers as the center of the show just because Jared's always there and he has to appease him (just ignore the inconvenient part where he does that if Jared isn't there, too). Obviously he can't actually LIKE Jared who is such a big bully with a giant ego who can't admit he wasn't part of the REAL story of SPN! If they can just expose the farce of J2's friendship, Jensen and everyone else will surely summarily drop Jared as the irrelevant dead weight he is! Then Jensen can finally do all the joint panels with Misha and make the sequel he actually wants sans Jared that's just six hours of making out with Misha!

TLDR: conspiracy batshit, basically.

Thank you so much for typing out all these questions and answers! ❤ (It helps so much, since I often don't understand everything that is being said in the videos, given that I'm hard of hearing and not a native speaker. )

Sure thing! It started out with being irritated at people completely misrepresenting what was said, and then just kind of turned into a habit of typing out whatever struck me as particularly funny or interesting.

I really do appreciate the people who go that take the time to record and upload the panels for the fandom, but even for me sometimes it's hard to tell what the guys are saying in them. The echoes, the audience noise, the guys getting overexcited and talking too fast, away from the mic, or over each other? Sometimes I listen to multiple videos over and over and over and still can't figure out a particular bit of phrase - and I'm a native English speaker with no hearing issues, so I can only imagine how much harder it gets.

It'd be far too time consuming to do the whole panels, but if there's ever a specific question you really want done I haven't transcribed, let me know!

I don’t understand the reason of Jared's fans to get angry on Jensen again. The worst thing he did two years ago, but now there is no reason to get mad. TW ended exactly how it could be, I get people making ridiculing it and laughing at Jensen because that is entertainment of some sort- but pulling the same old conspiracy theories and proving how big backstabber jensen is... Isn’t it tiring? 😂

I mean, do hellers get tired of screaming and crying their ship needs to be canon? It's not about what's actually going on in reality, it's about the weird shit they've made up in their heads and fixated on.

Like that bozly person who became totally unhinged post-prequelgate and still just wanders in now and then to shout nonsense about how Jared stans have never done anything objectionable ever and they have to protect poor hapless Jared from that evil backstabber *sob*. Because obviously they've seen everything in the fandom and know what happened and what's best for Jared better that Jared does.

Yeah, it's not sending death threats level heller behavior, but it's the exact same lying about what other people have said and pretending to be amnesiac and blind to what they and others like them are doing to claim to be the "good" side. It's that same level of continuing overreaction and projection regarding their fantasies of some actors from a TV show (about revenge instead of sex, but still).

Because they're just that obsessed with "winning" and freak the absolute fuck out at being reminded people who don't agree with them exist and no one is punishing the people they don't like as they totes deserve. It's so unfair!!! If they just shout enough, reality will change to validate them!!!

Curious about your thoughts on the lawsuit against Jensen and whether or not you think it will ruin his career and prospects for producing anything else. Of course both J's fans are once again arguing over who is better than the other and who is a more competent producer. To be honest I never fully immersed myself in the fandom and everyday I know why. Seeing Jensen fail seems to be the thing now and no matter how well either of them do people will continue to hate one or the other. Only the people ignoring the drama are having fun in the SPN fandom while others continue a cycle of my fave is doing better than yours. Hopefully Jensen and Danneel will take responsibility and settle this case amicably but ultimately human beings make mistakes and he is not immune from that. I like both Jared and Jensen and if they fail and make mistakes I will either let them go or try to be understanding and hope they grow and learn from those mistakes. No one does anything perfect 100% of the time. I understand some fans bitterness towards Jensen but sometimes I wonder what does that bitterness really get you. Even if Jensen retires tomorrow and is never heard from again I'm sure he would still be talked about due to his failure to thrive beyond Supernatural. The fandom experience should be fun but it doesn't feel fun when it comes to SPN. Anyway love your blog and your level headed opinions. Sorry for the long post.

NGL, some of this struck me really weird, but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume maybe you've just spent too much time listening to weird stan echo chambers.

The idea that people in general are going to be talking about Jensen's "failure to thrive" beyond Supernatural is just ... a take. Let's put aside that he's done several movies of voice work as animated Batman and pretend The Boys is totally a show no one ever talks about or talks about in terms of Jensen's performance on it. As well as that it's been only three years since SPN's finale filmed - not only do projects take time to develop often counted in years and more than occasionally get shit-canned when one of hundreds of factors falls through? Those three years have included the tail end of a global pandemic and now a writers' and actors' strike. Forget all that. It's still the case that normals don't sit around talking about what a huge disappointment the cast from, say, Friends are for not having super memorable roles afterwards - they're talking about Friends. Similarly, co-lead of a fifteen year show is a respectable acting career in and of itself. Only obsessed stans of one stripe or another desperate to make everything a competition talk like that about an actor, and again, nobody should take them seriously.

But let's move on to the case itself [X]. Immediate preface, I am not a lawyer, and definitely not a lawyer specializing in this area of law, so grain of salt and all that. However, the way our legal system typically works is that you can file a lawsuit for just about anything - whether or not you can prove your case in court (or the other side thinks you might be able to enough to settle) is the part that matters. Someone filing a case is not an inherent indication of meritoriousness to that case. I do not know the specifics of the laws regarding filming during weather - other than what has been in the articles about the case. I do not know the specifics of the weather on that day or what the production crew on the ground knew or should have known. Not all heavy rain is accompanied by thunder/lightning and bolt out of the blue is an expression for a reason. If the big players don't decide it's easier to just settle and the case is found to have merit, I do not know the generally relevant case law which might give me an idea of precedent in terms of which defendants might be held legally liable to what degree of culpability.

However, the idea that this will "ruin [Jensen's] career prospects" as a producer, let alone as an actor? That's just ... Even if the case is meritorious enough to reach a settlement or get a verdict in the plaintiff's favor? As you would expect if you know anything much about lawsuits, it names every defendant with any potential culpability. In this case, that includes Warner Bros, The CW, three additional production companies (not including CM), six individuals, and up to 100 additional as-yet-unnamed potential defendants (Does as in John Does 1-100 Inclusive). Jensen is just the one whose name gets pulled for the article text for obvious reasons. The idea it would be on him or Danneel to be making the call on whether or not to settle when it also involves WB and the CW let alone all the other parties ...

Which is not to say an executive producer doesn't hold responsibility for the conditions on set, that IS part of the gig - and why he, Danneel, and Robbie are included in the suit. But only a stan desperately trying to wish their fantasies into existence would look at this list of defendants and the circumstances where it doesn't seem to be alleged that Jensen was directly involved in the specific chain of events and be like HAHA JENSEN'S CAREER IS TOTALLY OVER, NOBODY WILL WANT TO WORK WITH HIM EVER AGAIN!!! IMO, I have doubts it'll even affect John Showalter's likelihood of working again, and he was allegedly the guy making the call on the ground.

I mean, personally, I think TW was a bizarre, ill-considered clusterfuck starting from conception, through prequelgate and the refusal to say it was an AU because ???, to current lawsuit about allegedly questionable set practices. The only way I could see it having any overarching effect on Jensen's career is if he himself decides to move away from producing, though.

Do you know what jensen has done now? I caught up with some posts from Jared's fans bashing him in and out, but not getting the full story. And also I would like to know the thing from someone neutral rather than clouding my judgement by someone biased😂

I admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the wider fandom and their antics lately, so I haven't seen much of anything substantial besides what the other anon sent me about there being drama over Jensen and Mark jokingly calling SPN The Jared Padalecki Show. Which yeah, having now checked, the Jared stan contingent is broken-recording again all ... blah blah true colors blah blah backstabber blah blah narcissist blah blah AA's started it blah blah blah.

Only other thing I've come across is the usual petty bullshit mocking his appearance and a bunch of Self-Proclaimed Internet Experts who are very sure that Jensen and only Jensen is totally violating the strike rules all over the place and getting away with it because he's a washed up nobody so nobody cares lol. If you just say shit on the internet enough times, that makes it true, dontchaknow? It's only stupid when hellers do it!

It’s pretty exhausting defending the show to people that are determined to hate it for things that they are objectively and provably wrong about. Ultimately that post was like ‘it’s not about the exact data but how I personally feel about it’ and that’s not a coherent argument.

They should just be honest and say they enjoy being terminally upset at older media, and they hate the concept of letting people enjoy things. If more people could just accept that being a boring, fun sucking malcontent is bad for everyone and find something to just…enjoy…then we wouldn’t have to listen to their silly, outrageously self important opinions anymore lol

Yeah.

It's perfectly reasonable to talk about how you feel about choices the show made. It's perfectly reasonable to have some issues with the way various things in it were executed. In the abstract, I genuinely think it's a good thing fandom as a whole started having more conversations about representation and unfortunate implications in canons. I even think there are actually interesting conversations that could potentially be had about SPN in that respect - if anyone actually delved into a genuine comparative examination of the way characters are treated on a variety of different axes in an objective way.

The part where some fans became convinced that it's inherently superior to constantly talk about how problematic a piece of media that's not perfect is instead of just ... enjoying what you do like about it? That's tiresome enough. When you add in that they all too often seem to want to only "discuss" its issues with all the nuance of a cartoon anvil to the face? Even before it gets to the point of trying to prove their opinion right by making statements of fact that are objectively wrong - you're undermining your own argument that you know what you're talking about, FFS!

Like, someone who was genuinely interested in discussing potential misogyny in SPN's choices? Is going to care what those choices factually were. They wouldn't just want to be validated for repeating demonstrably false fandom propaganda that makes them feel justified in their opinion. That's someone who clearly cares far less about the ifs/hows/whens of SPN and misogyny than about being Seen Having The "Right" Opinions. So they were at least very very right that we have absolutely nothing to talk about.

I find it funny how that one person tried to make out they were doing different cons to avoid each other and then this con J2 revealed not only do they keep each with each others cons but jensen knew wales comic con wasn’t in wales

Right?

Not too surprising, though, because fandom loves to cherry-pick.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you could actually tell the state of Jensen & Jared's friendship just from their public statements and actions. I actually don't think that's true, but let's just go with it for the sake of argument. Certain fans want to pick out just the things that fit their agenda and count only those as important. Aha! Jensen bought a house away from Austin, it must be to get away from Jared! Aha! Jensen and Jared are scheduling less conventions together, they must be avoiding each other! Except they are still actively booking a lot of cons together. Except they still have their same dynamic onstage. Except Jensen knew about not!Wales con. Etc.

If you actually want to try and figure out the whole picture, you have to actually look at all the available data. You can't just arbitrarily ignore the stuff that doesn't fit your hypothesis as irrelevant background noise for ... reasons. That's how you end up writing the equivalent of bad D/C meta, whatever the subject.

maybe i'm still stuck on the question of why misha thought he could poll an audience on their sexuality if he had no interest/intention/comfort sharing his own in the first place, but i don't get how his latest spin that the wb didn't want him to clear up the misunderstanding makes him any more sympathetic. if the wb asked him to "drop it" after the people article, i'd honestly assume they were talking about all the baiting rather than legit asking him to pick up a ruse he's trying to pretend he never meant to start in the first place

"stop feeding the rumor frenzy" is a legit media pr strategy that misha would probably benefit from learning about, but he's too desperate for validation

Well, like so much of what Misha says? It's specifically tailored to gain the sympathy of his sycophants in particular.

As you say, WB or no WB, Misha was the one who told the original "joke" specifically to bring up sexuality with his audience. Misha was the one who decided to compound it with an additional "joke" about his own sexuality. Nothing anyone did after he made those choices mitigates HIM being the one to MAKE THOSE CHOICES. Not for most people, anyway.

To a heller/minion, though? Well, they already believe the sun shines out of Misha's ass and he can do no wrong. He was the poor homophobically abused real star of SPN! He's the only one who ever told them The Truth™ detestiel was totes real! They're in it together with him as poor, oppressed little victims the evil network took advantage of!!! This plays so exactly into that, it's farcical. Look at how horrible the WB is, they don't respect sexuality! So evil! Poor Misha, how could they?! Hellers were already insisting he either just made a perfectly understandable mistake (lol) or was *gasp* being forced out of the closet! Oh, look, now they have someone else to be mad at and see as "victimizing" Misha. It doesn't matter Misha stuck his entire leg into his mouth of his own accord, just like it never mattered HE was the one baiting them detestiel was going to happen when it never did.

And yeah, IF the WB legit actually said anything at all to him about it, the likelihood is that it was a plea for him to just STFU and let it blow over for a while instead of any kind of suggestion he pretend to be bisexual. He probably figures this won't get back to the WB, and even if it does? He can say, "Oh, I only said you told me to 'let it go', I never SAID you tried to get me to pretend to be bisexual!" Which ... is the kind of stupid thinking that got him into a situation where he had to come out as straight in the first place.

He never seems to think this shit through, but then again, why would he learn? His audience doesn't care and keeps coming back to give him more money, happy to be lied to and manipulated.

Correct me if I’m wrong. But Dean had way more visceral reactions when Kevin and Charlie died. Hell, became functioning alcoholic when Bobby died. But Dean sitting defeated for a few seconds at the end of an episode, and then basically moved on by the start of the next. Is Dean so in love. People really making shit up in their heads.

You're not wrong, it's that simple.

They take a few seconds from canon, write reams upon reams of "meta" and fanfic dissecting and emphasizing how ~*significant*~ it all is in light of the true underlying story of SPN. Over and over and over again, they laser focus in on little nothing moments they can twist to fit their preset agenda while dismissing everything else. So in their heads, it's this huge obvious thing that overshadows all - because it's all they ever pay attention to. So they really don't understand when canon treats all of those moments as the literal couple of seconds that actually happened instead of the epic lovelorn romance they entirely made up in their own heads.

To pretend that Dean was more torn up about Castiel and therefore in lurve? You first have to ignore how absurd it is to say that you can't feel significant grief over someone who is "just" a friend. Then you have to ignore basically ... fucking everything ... about the intensity of his relationship to Sam. After that? You have to ignore how he reacted when Kevin died, when Charlie died, when John died. You have to ignore that his upset in season 7 wasn't just about Castiel, but about Bobby. You have to ignore that his upset in season 13 wasn't just about Castiel, but Mary and even Crowley. You have to ignore that his upset in 15x19 was just as much about literally everyone else on the planet being wiped out of existence because God was out to punish him and Sam personally, not just Castiel. Finally, you have to ignore that Sam was the one still really thinking about missing Castiel and Jack during their post-apocalyptic lives, and that when Dean died and Bobby told him Castiel was in heaven? Dean was more interested in reuniting with his car while he waited for Sam.

I love SPN, top to bottom. But it was a show that was never subtle. The characters could speak Latin, Enochian, hunter lingo, but subtly was never one of those languages. Remember Jerry Wanek saying he put a fun sort of Easter egg in the set design of Naomi’s office. Hellers screamed bi colors, and Jerry was like “no… there’s just some crosses over there.” Then that gets into the whole “bi-lighting”, which isn’t a real thing and just some wank Sherlock shippers made up.

Yeah, the thing is, even when SPN had subtle undertones, they were just adding depth and reinforcement of the already present and clear narrative. But even in a story more subtle than SPN, where hidden hints at upcoming twists play a larger part? No writer would tell a completely separate story that ONLY takes place in disjointed moments of "subtext" with no relation to the main narrative. Yet that's what hellers kept expecting and petitioning for.

Fifteen years debut to finale, the seasons all revolved around the brothers relationship at the core. But but but the lighting is ~*bisexual*~! But but but Dean ate cake! But but but Castiel wasn't there and wasn't even mentioned, so it was clearly all about how much Sam & Dean needed him! But but but the codependency was randomly broken off-screen to make way for focus on a different relationship because reasons!

Tell me you don't know how storytelling works without telling me. And yeah, the example from Naomi's office is so demonstrative. The crosses are right fucking there, but that wasn't what they wanted to see, so they kept looking till they found something they could interpret to mean what they wanted to find and fixated on it.