I don't really have anything specific in mind, I'm actually kinda lost as to what to look for jkjsksjk I know I identify with some traits, like sensory issues and difficulty communicating (I do have a diagnosis of social phobia, though I've been thinking maybe autism would better explain other aspects of my life beyond social interaction). I've been reading some articles regarding late discovering of autism and mostly looking for experiences, so I can compare to my own. I feel like I should be looking for something else but I don't really know what? lmao I don't think that was really helpful, anything you can share would be good to me

This is a really long post so I'm going to put it under a read more to not clog up other people's feeds but I think the main areas to cover are:

- verbal communication issues

was your vocabulary/reading ever under/over developed as a child? Having a really advanced vocabulary is just as much a sign of autism as having delayed development in this area. Also, having a very hard to pin down accent, or taking on others' accents Really easily is common amongst autistic people. Do you ever have trouble speaking? I experience selective mutism and when I'm overwhelmed/stressed/upset I often find it hard to speak out loud and have to communicate through messages/notes, though when I'm not mute I'm very eloquent and have always had a vocabulary that was advanced, other kids found it hard to talk to me when I was younger bc they couldn't understand me, but equally comprehension/vocabulary can be delayed/compromised and you might find it hard to understand others because you struggle with that sort of thing yourself. Do you have issues with your tone of voice ever? I find that I can't read my own tone of voice or my volume, some things will come out really bitchy-sounding or angry-sounding and I won't be able to tell, or I might be shouting and not know it because it all sounds the same in my head really.

- sensory issues

do you have issues with certain types of sound? volume? quantity? volume doesn't bother me, but too many different sources of noise will send me into a meltdown so fast. Do you struggle with certain smells, bright lights, tastes, textures of food or of clothing, certain sensations, for example I get really stressed out by having wet skin/hair, and I can't stand the sound/feeling of something rubbing over carpet. I also find some tastes to be overwhelming. Under-sensitivity or processing issues can also be a symptom. Do you ever struggle to process reading/listening to something? I have absolutely awful retention for auditory information, I can't hold more than around 4-5 words in my mind at any one time, and I can't follow auditory instructions at all if there's more than one step, it needs to be written down. I also often struggle to read things because I don't process the words and they just look like meaningless letters on a page to me. I also really struggle to process my own thoughts and order them, I'm able to talk out loud but there are times where I can't write my thoughts without speaking them first because ordering my thoughts while they're still inside my head is very difficult. I also have an under-sensitive sense of smell and taste at times. I can't even smell when meat has gone bad and everyone else I know says it really stinks, and like I can't tell the difference between chicken gravy and onion gravy, for example, because they taste almost identical to me. And senses aren't just the basic five, either. Do you have a particularly high OR low pain threshold? interoception is the perception of bodily functions. Do you have trouble identifying/noticing when you're hungry/thirsty or when you need to go to the toilet e.g. you didn't need to go pee a minute ago but now you're Suddenly absolutely bursting to go because you didn't notice it earlier at all. Proprioception is your perception of your movements, balance and of where your limbs are in relation to your surroundings. Do you bump into things or fall over seemingly nothing a lot? Have you ever been told/noticed you move "strangely"? Do you ever walk sort of on your tiptoes or toes-first rather than heels-first?

- social issues

do you have trouble reading body language? facial expressions? figurative language? tone of voice? not every autistic person will experience all of the above, I know people who can't read body language but can read tone of voice, or can't read figurative language but can read facial expressions, etc. etc. Personally I struggle with tone of voice a lot, I can't tell when people are being serious or not, or whether they're upset or not, tone of voice doesn't really tell me anything about how they're feeling of what they mean. Figurative language varies, I understand metaphors and I often understand sarcasm, although I won't get it if it's too deadpan, and I sometimes miss hyperbole and think people are being serious. I also can't tell whether people are teasing me or genuinely being mean the vast majority of the time. I tend to rely on speech patterns and word choice a lot to understand people, personally. I pick up on what sorts of words they use in what moods and use that largely to inform my interpretations of their current mood based on the words they're choosing. Do you ever struggle understanding what is/isn't socially appropriate? I overshare a lot bc I don't rlly understand what is "too much information" and what isn't, and I also don't understand really how to treat people differently based on their "social role", like I treat someone like a friend regardless of whether they're a stranger, a classmate, a friend, a family member, a colleague, a boss, a teacher, etc.

- need for routine/dislike of sudden/significant change

this isn't always as clear as like needing an entire day to be a routine, it can be little things. I'll give some examples: I have to brush my teeth in a specific way - I count the number of passes of the brush over each section of my teeth, I have to eat a sandwich in a specific order of bites, many food places I will order the same thing every/nearly every time and I will eat that order in the same way, I wash my body/hair in a certain way/order in the shower every time, sometimes I get weirdly obsessed with symmetry and I have to walk in a certain way and if I step "wrong" I have to hop around on one leg until I feel "balanced" again, I have to do my daily tasks on genshin impact in a certain order, etc. etc. I could probably think of more if I tried. I will often get distressed/overwhelmed/upset if any of these "routines" are disrupted somehow. My original method of eating a sandwich applied to when they're cut across into rectangles, so I used to hate eating triangle sandwiches because I couldn't eat them "correctly" until I figured out a similar way to eat triangle sandwiches, and now I Have to eat them in that way because it's "correct" and I'll feel uncomfortable otherwise. Note that this isn't like OCD because it's not anxiety-based, it's based on the fact that it feels like the "correct" way to do it, and that any other way is simply "wrong" and you don't like doing it "wrong". The need for routine and dislike of change might also manifest in needing to plan things ahead days in advance, you also might be like me and be very capable of impulsively doing things like going out if You decide to do it, but if someone Else suggests it, then you need the preparation time. - stimming/special interests

stimming can be honestly anything. I tap my foot, I sing, I have a whole folder names "stim games" on my phone, I type, I eat, I chew gum, I flap my arms, I scratch fabrics, I smell blankets/clothing. Stimming just means self-stimulation and is absolutely any repeated action that you find soothing/cathartic in any way. Under here I'm also going to mention samefoods: foods that you feel comfortable eating even when you don't feel comfortable eating anything else. Like if too much flavour/smell/texture feels overwhelming, most autistic people will have food/s that aren't at all stressful to eat and they can default to at those times. Mine is a specific brand of chicken nuggets, I'll often fall back on those when eating anything else feels overwhelming but I need to eat Something, and I can usually handle those when I can't handle other things.

as for special interests, they are anything that you're kind of obsessed with. You can have multiple, they can change over your life, but your interest tends to go much deeper than that of a neurotypical person's and you feel a need to know everything about it and struggle to hold conversations about other topics because it kind of just takes over your brain. when I was younger some of my special interests were final fantasy, anime, hello kitty, languages/linguistics has always been a special interest of mine, kpop is definitely one, astrology is also for sure one. I fall in and out of being obsessed enough with genshin to call it a special interest. I had a friend in highschool whose special interest was the periodic table, for a while they were obsessed with the 8 times table, and then it became dinosaurs. My little brother is autistic and his special interest has always been video games, he's really interested in retro games, he loves Minecraft and Mario too, when he was younger it was ben 10 for a while, there was also a period where all he wanted to do as a kid was rewatch the cars movies. Media likes to portray special interests as being academic but they can truly be absolutely anything. A desire to know absolutely everything about trains or flowers or kpop is just as much a special interest as neurology or maths or physics or smth like that.

Another thing I've just thought of to be noted, is hygiene:

some autistic people might appear to have borderline OCD tendencies where they can't handle dirt/mess and need everything to be tidy/clean all the time. This is definitely one of the stereotypes. But struggling with hygiene is just as much a symptom of autism. If you struggle to remember to shower/wash hands/brush teeth/do laundry/etc. that could well be an autism symptom. I found out I'm sensitive to mint and especially to toothpaste, it makes my mouth feel like it's burning and like I'll actually cry if it touches my tongue bc it hurts that much lmao. I discovered a toothpaste that's unflavoured and doesn't foam up and now I can brush my teeth without pain but for a long time I struggled with consistently brushing teeth bc of that. I also struggle with showering bc of being stressed out by wet hair/skin. Sometimes it's also a memory thing, and I forget to do these things. I also absolutely suck at keeping my room clean, idk why I just Really Can't lmaoooooo

I'm certain there are things I haven't covered, these are mostly pulling from my own experiences of autism from myself and those around me. All of this might apply to you, it might not, but I hope it makes sense and has given you a good starting point of things to examine within yourself and questions to ask yourself <3 I wish you well bub and please always feel free to ask more questions and/or talk to me more about your experiences <3

Logan Sanders

I’m worried (shocker, I know) about Logan’s mental health. I fear that Logan is showing symptoms of one of the many kinds of depression (the one I’ve had, the one my mother had, and so on) and this is where people jump and yell at me that being part of Thomas, Logan is physically unable to be depressed because he is an imaginary trait that was made up for and by Thomas to understand and analyze everyday problems. I gotcha, I know. Cool, let’s move on.

Logic, Morality, Creativity, and Anxiety are the four main traits that make up our dear beloved Thomas Sanders and everyone is directly connected and affected by the other. As videos progress you can see Roman (Creativity) thinking more and more in logical and schemed ways or you can see Logan (Logic) and Patton (Morality) starting to see eye to eye and understand each other. So, I bet your first thought when I said ‘depression’ was “oh oh how is Trini going to connect it to be Virge’s fault, she better not touch my precious lil’ anxious baby” and please sit back. Anxiety hates depression. Depression in most cases means losing the ability to find a purpose even in the most mundane things (like opening a window, or getting out of bed); Anxiety hates it, because he can’t do his job nor can he get the host to do something. Depression is the earplugs, and anxiety is the noise being blocked. So, no, this isn’t Virgil’s (Anxiety) doing… but keep him in your mind, he’ll come back later.

Now that that is cleared up, let me tell you why I fear Logan is started to develop some mental health problems. It has been stated previously, and multiple times too, that Logan is actually considered ‘the least liked character/trait’ as Virgil once mentioned. He is constantly being told to shut up or that he makes no sense. His words are ignored or overviewed, his random bits of facts are frowned upon… The list goes on and on. (I personally love Logan (as much as I love all the sides) because he is an awful lot like my brother). All these things have been said straight to his face and since then, I couldn’t help but noticing that he has been trying a little harder for attention, molded his mannerisms to fit the others, and doesn’t speak as much. I mean, yeah, this could be because FanderTeam (I’m calling Thomas, Joan, Talyn, and whoever helps in the videos, that from now on) has simply changed writing styles or something else, but let’s imagine the characters were real. Logan is often getting his voice drowned by someone else’s, stopped with mean remark’s, and part of me feels that the sides haven’t really let that all because Patton can’t let go of one person completely yet (that may be just me, but meh)… and to be honest, depression hits the mind before the heart.

Say Thomas gets depressed (no need to say to what extent, depression is depression), this would affect Logan before anyone else. Virgil would notice something weird, suddenly all the over thinking has been taken away from his shoulders without a reason. Roman would have problems with coming up with ideas and Patton would be having trouble to decide what to feel (like a pregnant woman in the middle of a mood swing) (also, keep them in mind too). We all know Thomas, a selfless man who we have to basically spam so he takes a break without feeling bad, so I’m going to think that his traits will take the full blow in order for Thomas to receive as little as possible. We know for sure that the traits feel what they represent; in Accepting Anxiety, Part 2/2: Can Anxiety Be Good time mark 9:15, Virgil feels anxious about revealing his name, and earlier in the same video we can see Patton experiencing the full emotional spectrum at the same time and being overwhelmed by it. So what if this overthinking, this overload of information of possible and not possible futures, become too much for Logan to handle? What if Logan just… stops?

For Virgil, it was a decision to duck (quack) out. He felt like he was stopping Thomas from being ‘normal’ and decided “Nope. Ain’t gonna stop ya no more”. The mind, on the other hand, will never see this as an option, it will see it as if it was bound to happen. Another step in the staircase. Logan wouldn’t personally choose; Logan would think that this was supposed to happen. His mind wouldn’t be like “what if I didn’t duck (quack quack) out?”, his mind would be “what next?”. If this ever happens, it wouldn’t be as easy as it was to bring Virgil back to the Debate/Panel. And without Logan, without the mind, all the other traits and Thomas would be directly impacted by the missing trait.

 Let’s see how does this impact the other traits because I can almost hear you saying ‘They wouldn’t be impacted that much’:

Before I list the things, let me make it clear that they would be impacted. For example, in Accepting Anxiety, Part 1/2: Excepting Anxiety time mark 2:37 Logan begins to lose his ability to formulate eloquent and concise phrases, at the time mark 4:42 (or almost all video to be honest) Roman’s already short temper shortens, and at the time mark 5:19 Patton no longer feels compelled to keep trying as he quickly gives up in calling Virgil to the living room even though we have a full video of him trying to convince the others that growing up is fun. Also, near the end of the first part of this two-part video, Logan mentions that no one is actually worried but confused. So, yes, the traits affect directly each other.

Now onto the impacts that we would see hypothetically if Logan clocked out.

Virgil

While he would be the less affected as he himself is a logic-based trait much like Logan. It is shown that Logan and Virgil share more similarities than Virgil does with the other two. In Accepting Anxiety, Part 2/2: Can Anxiety Be Good? At the time mark 5:12, Logan shows signs of overthinking without purposefully doing it much like it happens to Virgil (being Anxiety an all). Also, Virgil much like Logan, is the embodiment of ‘what if’; Virgil gives countless ‘what if’s and Logan gets rid of the non-realistic or improbable ones. Without Logan, Virgil would be left with a handful of ‘what if’s and have no proper idea of what to do with them instead of planting them in Thomas’s brain (which can only lead to bad and worse). Logan is also in charge of appointments, schedules, and routines. Without the neck-tied man, Thomas wouldn’t even think about the importance of making a doctor’s appoint at least once a year or why he cannot miss the scheduled meeting with his landlord. Anxiety would be panicking but Thomas wouldn’t know how to react to the panicking. Mess Fest at its greatest.

 Roman

On a daily basis Roman comes up with ideas, it is basically what decides what are you going to do that day if you haven’t prepared anything beforehand. But, being Creativity, those ideas come easily and fast. Some doable, some not really. If Logan wasn’t there, these ideas would never be organized or schemed in order to make them happen. No Logan, no productivity. Also, Roman would have the weakest memory out of the three, thoughts and ideas taking over his brain within seconds. The ideas would not only be weak as he wouldn’t spend too much time thinking on just one idea before jumping to another, but they would also be weak since logic wouldn’t be applied to it and they would be fantastic (as fantasy, not amazing) and nonsensical. Whether or not Roman would ever admit to it, Logan brings his ideas to life by properly presenting the idea to Thomas with ways to do it and things to add to it; Roman gives the idea, Logan gives the idea a body.

 Patton

Now, of course, what would the heart miss if the mind, its nemesis, went missing? Well, a lot. Logan, even with his poor social skills, is the one conducting the conversations depending on what the others say. Logan acts as a moderator, as we have seen previously with each time that Patton is getting too emotional and Logan (rather rudely if we’re sincere) tells him to get his act together (in other words) and gets to pass Patton’s ideas in an orderly fashion so Thomas can do what Patton wanted. Also, besides that, Patton is at the core of most of Thomas’s feeling like said in Moving On, Part 1/2: Exploring Nostalgia meaning he could be feeling two at the same time; now, he knows what exactly he’s feeling because he logically eliminated the other options. He’d know he’s feeling a good or a bad emotion but wouldn’t know whether he’s feeling zealous or simply excited because there would be no logical method to compare the two. This would mean Thomas would be in a constant tiring mood swing and wouldn’t be able to properly social which would make Patton feel bad and start going through the emotional spectrum all over again.

 And that is scratching the surface only! Overall, by losing Logan, Thomas and the other traits would lose the way of making things work. Said before in the videos multiple times, listening only to one trait is disastrous but we were shown with this two-part video that not listening at all would give you the same end. This was an excellent show of how, no matter who you think is the leader between the traits, every trait that stands in that circle of debate is equivalent to the other. No one is stronger than the other. Without one, they would all fall. If one took control, the others would lose sight on what’s important and become overwhelmed with their own problems (much like what happens when Logan, Patton, and Roman spend too much time in Virgil’s corner). But this isn’t the end, my friend, no… Just you hold one because now comes all the hypothetical ideas that have been plaguing my mind about what would happen if Logan had indeed depression.

 Let me start with rooms. We’ve seen Virgil’s room as the dark corner, with things Thomas fears and hates, and at the moment it is clear that Virgil thinks of himself as ‘the bad guy’. He knows that the group doesn’t really like him that much as he mentions in Accepting Anxiety, Part 2/2: Can Anxiety Be Good? Time mark 2:25 when he says “Well, it didn’t seem that I was wanted. You all made that pretty clear anytime I showed up.” So his room is dark, gloomy, the embodiment of what you don’t want. Then in Moving On, Part 1/2: Exploring Nostalgia, time mark 8:27, we see Patton’s room which is instantly described as ‘Nostalgia Nirvana’; the difference between ‘nostalgia’ and ‘reminiscence’ is that nostalgia is the feeling of homesickness and wanting the past to come back while reminiscing is simply looking back. In the same two-part video, it’s shown that Patton himself was feeling homesick for those happy moments. So what if the rooms were made or shifted regarding the trait’s feeling? Now that Virgil is happier and more accepted into the group, would his room not be as bad as it was? And now that Patton has somewhat understood that lingering in the past isn’t as great as it sounds, would his room be less nostalgic and more reminiscent? Now, think about this but in Logan’s (also Roman’s but that is another theory for later) room.

He’s the teacher so we can basically expect either a studio or a library, both are very ‘learning’ based. Saying that my theory of the rooms changing according to the trait’s mental state and that Logan is getting a mental health problem, would his room be affected too? We all know our beloved teacher; wears a neck-tie because serious people wear neck-tie (Growing Up, time mark 5:14), has flash cards to help him learn the modern slang (My NEGATIVE Thinking), and immediately points out the educational stuff in Patton’s room in the first part of the Moving On two-part video. This is enough information to assure me that Logan’s room is most likely to be an educational environment. But like said before, depression starts by losing the ability to find the purpose of mundane activities like cleaning up. So, say that Logan is indeed suffering from this, would his usually pristine (because let’s be honest, Logan has some kind of OCD or something) room also reflect the feeling of being unnecessary? Would his room be messy because he can’t find the purpose of cleaning it anymore much like the purpose of backing up his points with weird studies like he did in the past but we don’t see anymore? Would everything be dusty and dark because why open the curtains if he’s going to close them at night or why clean the dust if it’s going to come back?

 Besides rooms, there’s another thing that worries me. We’ve seen everyone connect with each other. Virgil mentions that he actually likes Patton (Accepting Anxiety, Part 2/2: Can Anxiety Be Good? Time mark 2:26, “Except you Patton, you’re a funny guy”) and Roman has always had this connection with Patton since they both share the feeling of ‘love’, being Thomas’s romantic side and feelings side, and we also see Roman and Virgil kind of connect (even though they play devil’s advocate constantly) to find the best suitable solution for both. Sure, the two hate each other, but they’re trying. Logan doesn’t have these connections with anyone, not on that scale at least. With Roman, he has seen eye to eye and called it ‘temporal alliance’. With Patton, Logan has only gone as far as understanding his points without necessarily agree with him. And with Virgil, yes they do have the strongest bond between the four by far, but it’s in a quiet scale. In Moving On, Part 1/2: Exploring Nostalgia time mark 14:09, Virgil and Logan have this quiet conversation between the two. Now, to have this kind of conversations, one must have a strong bond between two people… But it’s not acknowledged, which would lead to –in case Logan started thinking his friendships in the group– Logan not realizing it’s even there. Logan would see himself as the odd one out. And what was it that pushed Virgil over the limit to clock out? Oh, yeah, not fitting in and being the odd one out.

The mind works differently from the heart. The heart feels something and expresses, the mind feels something and tries to understand it. Now, going back to what I said about my brother being like Logan. I’m older than my brother, I watched him grow up and develop similar things that I see now on Logan… Too much information getting jumbled up in his brain, for the longest time we thought he had a speech problem and it was actually that he thought faster than he talked. What if Logan is the same? Patton, Roman, and Virgil are emotion-based. If Thomas is happy, Patton is happy, Roman creates happy worlds, and Virgil wouldn’t be overworking and stressing. If Thomas is sad, Patton is sad, Roman creates gloomy worlds, and Virgil would be going over thoughts of seventh grade. Yes, I know I said Virgil is a logic-based trait, but he is also emotion-based since he can control some of Thomas’s feelings such as nervousness (as Roman explains near the end of the second part in Accepting Anxiety). Virgil is a mix between the two. Patton and Roman are emotion-based. Logan is logic-based. That’s why we see Logan and Virgil understanding what the other means easier and why we see Logan having trouble to understand what Patton means. Logan thinks a certain way that no one else in the group thinks, and that alienates him from the others because he can’t express himself in a way the others do. In My NEGATIVE Thinking time mark 11:44, he compliments Virgil which sends the darker trait spiraling into confusion. Despite the constant nasty remarks from the group at that point, Logan had been the one who called Virgil the least names. In Logan’s mind, this showed that he didn’t really mind Virgil’s company while to everyone else it seemed that Logan simply didn’t want to engage in childish fights. His mind works differently from the others which leads to distraught which leads to things like in Fitting In (Hogwarts Houses!), time mark 5:34, Logan exclaims “Listen, I’m just doing my best here, you guys!” after he gets insulted for not understanding something that feelings and creativity understood instantly. Emotions and Mind run in two very different wavelengths, hardly ever connecting which leads to Logan having trouble to understand the other traits’ words and them having trouble to understand his.

     Now, the last thing I want to say before finishing up. I’m going to say four different phrases, one said on a video and then I’m going to guess who you thought of as you read the phrase.

1.     “I’ve always aimed to protect you.”

2.     “I’ve always aimed to guide you.”

3.     “I’ve always aimed to help you.”

4.     “I’ve always aimed to make you happy.”

 Who is who? Well, let me tell you. The first one is the one said in the video Accepting Anxiety, Part 2/2: Can Anxiety Be Good? At the time mark 3:55 by Virgil. I’m going to guess what you thought each phrase belonged to. Number two would be Patton’s, as a father and morality, his intentions are to guide you through life. Number three would be Logan’s, as the knowledge database, his intentions would be to help you sort through problems in life. And the last one would be Roman, whose intentions would directly be aimed to following dreams and chase happiness. Virgil’s is pretty obvious and stated in the actual video that Anxiety has more than one job and that includes fear, reflexes, better memory… What happens when you’re constantly being told that your job is useless, that you are useless, whether it’s a joke or not? You start believing it, it becomes our reality. They said that Virgil’s presence was unwanted with every time they went “Ah, Anxiety, what are you doing here?!”, what has also been said to be unwanted or ignored? Logan’s words. Just think about it.

     But that’s it. Well, that’s the stuff I can actually put into words. The rest are ideas that I don’t have enough evidence to base them off… Also, I have no idea what I’m trying to do with this, am I trying to convince you that Logan needs appreciation? I don’t know. I’m just here to express my concern about @thatsthat24 ‘s characters. Thank you for sticking with me ‘til the end of my 3 a.m. psychoanalyzing of fictional characters that I should probably spend less time thinking about… Thank you so much for your time and until next time.

           Trini, your classic nerd!

MADCH MADCH <3

hello fam - I've had a weird day, I'm super happy I can take the time out to reply to you. always thinking of you though, I hope you're always having a great day. today's been a bit of a non day - a family member has to deal with operations and that's on top of me too so i've just felt a bit winded in life?

YES to you finally conquering that damn cold! do you feel properly replenished now? omg i hate sore throats too - okay i hope this doesn't give you nightmares but when i was a kid i saw a documentary about this terrible disease that manifests at its worst a bit like alzhemiers but it can hit anyone of any age and for the majority of people who get it... one of the first symptoms is a sore throat and i have literally lived in terror of sore throats ever since. but luckily it's a very rare disease. so basically, yes, i understand you.

OMG you know when you're like eight and you don't want to sleep and you're like no i will adult and stay up and it will be glorious - i'm like, CHILD YOU FOOL you could have gone to sleep XD and ugh no responsibilities?! i remember working most of the time when i was a kid and i kind of wish i had wreaked havoc? what was your childhood like? did you get to do lots of fun stuff? i know my mum wishes she had been able to spend more time with me when i was a kid and i'd like to have a family and i'd love her to be able to relax and just spend time with her grandkids? OMG well when you come to europe let me know and then i can show you around and give you a hug in person!

so we're mainly cofe here though cahtolic culture is still big and honestly i'm with you. like religion can be a great influence on you if it's not used in nefarious ways and can help you learn so much - like even if there are things you don't end up agreeing with at least you learn about then so you can make a choice for yourself as opposed to not really knowing anything? agree - people that are really boastful totally put me off, i just can't deal with it at all. but you're right, like it makes us so so hard to forgive ourselves for anything right? like, even if we've done nothing wrong and we shouldn't have to punish ourselves? like i swear i'm apologising for everything haha XD once someone pushed me off the tube and i ended up apologising like ON REFLEX? hasjdkahds XD but i really hope you have people around you that keep bigging you up too! if not i will keep bigging you up :D :D so you know that you are worth it.

i'm sorry you're not looking forward to your final year of uni! think you're almost there though - like this is the final stretch and you'll have like conquered everest you know?! and even if your landing at the end of it isn't as perfect the fact you landed at all means so much and that means you can stand up again and keep going! day at a time and moment at a time you know? i kind of had this moment today (hence my wierd day) when i was worry about everything and i literally sat there like - have i made the right choice and done the right thing and surely i've made the wrong choices in my life and do i actually have any talent cause if not people would actually like my stuff and i had to just be like... a moment at a time sometimes you know? like, just bit by bit and don't sweat the stuff you don't have to? idk i find it hard to do but i hope that helps you - like you'll surmount every little thing bit by bit and before you know it you'll have made it! you were born ready you were <3 <3

TINY SQUAD IS GO! the pant dilemma is truly a massive issue, like IDK how to deal OMG OK SO LAMPSHADING is like when you do big baggy like tops and then like leggings or tights or something skinny on the bottom so... you look like a lampshade? like i guess it makes you look cute and then also it's such an easy way to dress without worrying if you look like a kid that's wearing your mum's clothes?? ahsdjakdhsa XD

AHHHH YES BASIL ME TOO!! what scent did you end up buying? i'm sure it was lush - are your parents near you or is it like a massive special occassion to get to see them? YES agree with your take on musk though! like it feels like idk, something a 50 year old with a cigar in a stuffy country club would wear? like, there's no energy to it but not in a chill mellow way either??! like even if i was going to a dinner thing I would still rather not wear something musky? like i'd still rather it be something a bit sweeter? also like some musk perfumes can be SO STRONG? like i'm like - my nose is choking on this perfume XD

YES BLUE MOON SQUAD AAAAA it is literally one of their finest ever, it's always stayed on my top faves list by them. like ugh yes to the lofi stuff sometimes i just wanna VIBE and be in my feels but not so much i'm too angsty but enough that I'm FEELING feels ya know? what did you think of kiss or death? it really wasn't that kind of vibe but yh i hope they do more lofi jazzy stuff - also cause like not a lot of korean groups play with that sound a lot?

hello mädch's mom as always! nerer apologise for being late, always just happy to hear from you and i hope you are super super well and looking after yourself first and foremost! more than anything <3 (also i take ages to reply too ya know and omg this is so so long ahsdjakhdaskjdh)

love you lots and lots and lots xxxxxxxxxxxx

ANGEL ANGEL !!!!!!!! <3 i know i'm really late to this LKDFJS i've had such a busy week getting some overtime in and then visiting my grandparents' house so i didn't really have a lot of energy to reply to all of this BUT IM HERE AND i can finally give u a good response <3

firstly is your family member okay??? i hope so ;____; how was the rest of your week, and how was your weekend angel? i hope u were able to enjoy your weekend and that everything is okay in the family <3

but YEAH my mom and i are over the stupid cold ;_____; i hate colds,,,, they last way too long lol like i say i know the flu is a little more serious than a cold but i would rather have it for a day or 2 than being stuck feeling lousy for a whole week :( ALSO SLDKFSJDFKLJ OH GOD SEE we are both hypochondriacs ( that's not the best trait to have as a nursing major lol ) but tbh i'm really curious about this rare disease ????? :o sounds really scary tho goodness gracious i wonder what it could be ;____;

also god i was always awful at staying up late as a kid LOL but i know what u mean !!!!!! honestly there was only one time i can recall i had a sleepover with my friend in like the 3rd grade and we tried pulling an all nighter so i think we made it to like 5am but i had to go to bed omg i felt like such garbage LKDSFJ </3 it's just funny bc like as u get older u realize that staying up late is really nothing special and if anything u feel like a train hit you the next morning and adults are so sleep deprived as it is we just *try* to prioritize sleep SLDKFJSDKLJF :') you worked a lot as a child bub?? what kind of things did you do? i didn't start working until i was 15 bc most places here don't allow u to work until this age (unless you're in a family business i guess lol) but all the jobs i had in high school i hated so much ;_____; but my childhood? i would say it was relatively normal LOL like we say all the time i've had a single mom so life was really stressful for her but i always felt loved <3 i always had my mom <3 and we took trips to the beach with my family every year, it was our little tradition !! i went to san diego to visit disney, you know little trips here and there !! and then when i got into my sport and i started getting older my mom and i spent a lot of time and money investing into my sport so most of my weekends consisted of a lot of tournaments and driving far away for me to compete :') i do remember when i was really young like in kindergarten my mom's work was really far away from my school and we had a recital ; i was the "host" where i would introduce all of the songs and stuff and my mom didn't get off of work until like 6 and by the time she made to my recital, it was over :( she told me she cried a lot that night :( i don't remember her doing this (i don't even remember the recital all that much lol) but now that i'm older and i understand more about adulting, i'm sure she was so devastated thinking about it now :( anyways about visiting europe LOL I WILL DEF GIVE U A CALL AND LET U KNOW SO U CAN SHOW ME ALL OF THE COOL PLACES <333333

and about the religion ....... yes ;____; i think it's a great thing if a family decide that they want to do this when they're families; i hope to continue to practice it (even tho we aren't regularly going to church at all hhhh gotta work on that) but there is something about catholic guilt specifically that just makes it soooo hard to like, be easy on yourself? but ,,,,,, i guess it keeps me grounded :( in a self depreciating way ??? LDSKFJ I KNOW U UNDERSTAND ... it's weird for me to put into words ;____; and YEAH :( i think i'm getting a little better at this but i used to apologize all the time for things i never needed to be sorry for hhhh (still do) :')

and yes babe honestly i'm really terrified to start uni :( i think i have this weird anxiety issue i've had it ever since last year but i don't know why i'm so scared and anxious about things that haven't even happened yet ;____; are u like this too? is it normal? i wish i knew :( i guess i won't really feel better until i have made it to graduation, but i just want to do well this year. whatever i do, whether it's exams, or clinical rotation or my preceptorship, i just want to do well ;____; i don't want to do poorly, i want to make my mom proud and i want to work at a place i'll be excited to work at, and most of all i just want everything to work out ,,,, i wish someone could just sit me down and say listen i know what you're going thru is hard but you CAN get thru this and EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE OKAY NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS bc no one in my family is in the health sciences (besides my cousin who is studying to be a doctor but she doesn't give a shit about what i do lol) so ;_____; yeah ,,,,,,,,,,, lots of anxiety and apprehension of the unknown :(

LSDKFJSD FOKAY NOW I KNOW WHAT LAMPSHADING IS LMAOOOOOOOOOOO yes i wear those clothes on lazy days LOL the thing is i'm really picky about the length of my oversized crewneck sweaters hhhh the can't be too long bc if it goes below my butt i look like i'm wearing rags LOL so i have to be careful :') but most days i do like, reverse lamp shading lDLKFJSDLKFJ i like wearing flowy pants with a more tight top or like baggy jeans with a tighter shirt or a blouse i can tuck into my jeans LOL but omg its so funny i didn't know what that was :') thank u for the explanation my love <3

OKAY BUT HALF THE REASON I DIDN'T RESPOND IS THAT i was saving this weekend to go to the jo malone store in my mall and !!! I GOT A NEW SCENT AND I'M IN LOVE WITH IT SO MUCH BABE ;____; you have to go smell it if you go there soon and tell me what u think !!!!!! it's called wild bluebell (here is the scent description lol) but the guy behind the counter helping me was soooo amazing and helpful like they really do treat u the best at the store and AH i’m so happy with my purchase <3 my wallet isn’t so much LDSKFJ but nonetheless i know i’ll have it for a long time :)

KISS OR DEATH !!!!! i actually really enjoyed it lol i have seen some ppl not really like the rapping so much but i loved it ;____; i’m super biased obviously LOL but gosh i thought they were all great and minhyuk + hyungwon killed the song for me <333 wouldn’t expect anything less from our monstas !!!!! and my mom is sending her love lol i tell her the work u do and she’s always wondering how ur doing :(((( same for my moots she always asks me about 2 in particular LOL she’s always asking me <3 i love u so much bubbie !!!! iM SO SORRY FOR BEING LATE MY LOVE again i always just want to give u a quality response <3 i love u the absolute most and i hope u had a great weekend !!!!!!! this is my last week at work before i have a week long break before i head for uni so :’) can’t believe i’ve done all this LOL :’) i will be happy to hear from u whenever u come back hun !!!!! TAKE CARE LOVE U <3 

I'm writing an apocalypse. Society essentially ends. One of my protagonists is bipolar (as I am). Part of his struggle for survival involves trying to get hold of medication. Personally, I am not sure how I'd do at world's end if I was also unmedicated. My personal experience does not really include extreme tragedy and threats to my survival. So the question: do people in life-threatening situations find that their illness sort of takes a backseat for a while, or do they make things worse?

(part 2) Would having bipolar disorder make my character more susceptible to PTSD or other issues? Would his learned coping skills or meds kind of insulate him? What are some withdrawal risks if he can’t get the meds?

The Scriptshrink consultants answer after the jump!

Charlie 

I’m gonna answer the questions about meds specifically because I have a lifetime of experience with them and I used to study pharmacology, but I’ll leave everything else out because it’s a bit of a tricky question for me to answer.

Theoretically, the medication could have somewhat of a “numbing” effect (common for mood stabilisers) which would make it less likely for PTSD to develop, but I don’t know if this is a thing that’s actually been studied. I know that my memories from when I was on my first medication are vague and distant, as I felt like there was somewhat of a disconnect between my feelings, thoughts and my actions - but I don’t know if this would be enough of a disconnect to stop PTSD from developing, should I have been exposed to anything traumatic in that time. Also, traumatic memories are processed differently from nontraumatic memories, so its a bit up in the air. 

 As for withdrawal, it depends on the medication, a few different classes of meds are used for bipolar and all have different side effects and withdrawal symptoms. It also depends on the dosage, whether the person is tapering or going cold turkey, and the individuals physiology. We’ll assume, given the scenario, it’s cold turkey. 

So, the common withdrawal symptoms from lithium include: anxiety, headaches, nausea and emotional dysregulation (very rapid, uncontrolled mood swings). Lithium is pretty forgiving in terms of withdrawal compared to other drugs, which I’ll get into. 

Anticonvulsant drugs (valproate, lamotrigine, carbamazepine etc.)  are a lot less forgiving in terms of withdrawal. Mild symptoms include tremors, irritability, dizziness and vertigo. I came off of a drug of this class and I was so dizzy I nearly fell, multiple times. This was at a fairly low dosage too. The main risk with discontinuing anticonvulsant medications is that it can cause seizures. It’s not super common, but it is a risk.

Finally - antipsychotics. These include aripiprazole (abilify), olanzapine (zyprexa) and quetiapine (seroquel) among loads more.  I’ve luckily not been through antipsychotic withdrawal but it’s apparently a special kind of hell. Symptoms like anxiety, depression, confusion and difficulty concentrating are common. Nausea, loss of appetite and diarrhea are also not unusual. It’s also possible for someone to develop psychosis, or at least start to hallucinate, when coming off of an antipsychotic even if they didn’t initially have psychosis. Sudden changes in the dosage of antipsychotics also increases the risk of neuroleptic malignant syndrome, which is really dangerous. 

As well as all these symptoms, there’s the most obvious thing - that the meds are being used to treat a disorder, and now he doesn’t have the meds. It’s common for someone to relapse (usually into mania) while going through withdrawal.

NaamahDarling

You have wiggle room. You can decide on the severity of his bipolar, how well he responds to medication, how well he handles adversity. I would totally believe it if a bipolar character melted down under life-threatening circumstances.  I would also totally believe it if they buckled down and handled it as long as there were consequences.I’ve had withdrawal from Seroquel and it was, indeed, a circle of hell. Tremors, severe insomnia, several episodes of depersonalization/ dissociation.  The worst was the random twitching every minute or so.  Hypnic jerks were terrible.  

Basically, if you WANT withdrawal to be a factor, it sure as heck can be.  You might also consult @scriptpharmacist​ for details on withdrawal from specific drugs.Immediate catastrophes absolutely can drive everything else to the back of your mind. It might be short term, though - days, a couple of weeks at most. And after that, as the acute stress fades, it starts to take its toll, and you can wind up worse than before, needing more intensive treatment. 

Even non-mentally-ill people react to life-threatening situations in different ways. Also, some react really well to, say, a medical emergency (broken leg, kidney stone) but not so much to a natural disaster (tornado, house fire, earthquake, etc.). So there’s a lot of variation within healthy populations.  And even totally healthy people may navigate a disaster and then, once the danger has passed, totally break down.  That’s normal, even for healthy folks, and mentally ill/bipolar folks are the same.How well your character handles pressure is more of a general character trait that you can decide on than one derived from whatever mental illnesses he might have.

Also, bipolar disorder is frequently comorbid (happening together) with a lot of other psych issues.  It would not be unusual at all for your character to have/be more susceptible to PTSD. 

Learned coping skills can help under pressure, but those take effort to deploy and as things become more stressful, coping strategies become harder to implement and may not work quite as well.  It’s rough even if you’re good at it. 

I have a procedure mapped out for panic attacks and even a severe attack is always going to be of limited duration.  Dealing with something like the bipolar depression is harder because it’s not limited in duration.  I have strategies, but it’s harder to take on something so large. 

I would kinda expect a character like yours to have some self-care stuff he’s found that he CAN do, and for those things to be VERY important to him.Trying to get meds even TODAY when they are can be harrowing. My Seroquel generic is HARD to get, but withdrawal from it is AWFUL, so I don’t have a choice. I HAVE to fight to get it. Finding my right generic Wellbutrin was so hard and I do well enough without it, that I just went off it because the stress of fighting to get it was so absolutely atrocious.  

So his meds would have to work WELL and have manageable discontinuation effects to make it worth trying that hard to get them.Readers who HAVE mental illnesses might appreciate a nod in the direction of “he’s tried other meds, and it didn’t work out, it’s THIS ONE that is SO HELPFUL he will PUNCH MUTANT ALLIGATORS to get it!” Trying several meds is common, and it’s also relatable and would be an easy detail to slip in. You don’t have to name them.Check also to see if it’s a drug you have to work up to a full dose of (like Lamictal), so you know whether it’s realistic to have him go right back to taking it like nothing happened.

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