#also like is Jonathan's stoner plot line just over | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

jaegerisim · 11 months

Text

Vent post y'all are gonna hate me for.

I viscerally hate how the Duffers treat most of their non white or queer characters and I hate even more viscerally, how y'all big byler blogs in your circle jerk of other 5 big byler blogs casually like to ignore many red flags the show has.

Y'all like to say: "tHe DufFeRs ArE gReAt WrIteRs" and it's like girl, who are you lying to??? They aren't top shit writers at all. The Duffers are pretty mid imo. Yeah, they run a good show that's fun to watch and theorize abt , but that doesn't mean they're good writers cuz they're not.

1. they completely side lined Will during s3 for the sake of their straight romances: lumax, jancy, mlvn, duzie and partly stobin (even if stobin wasn't endgame, thankfully, Steve's intentions were clearly wanting to date Robin and they gave it a lot of screen time). Will was sidelined bc he didn't fit the straight romance plotline bc they planned to make him gay or whatever. Now in s4 Will and his feelings have been used as mlvn toilet paper. Yes, we like to say this is build up for byler but canonically, Will's feelings have been used to clean the shit mlvn leaves behind.

2. Billy was sympathized a lot during the last 2 seasons. They gave him the sad backstoryTM in order for ppl to feel sorry for him. Billy's backstory is literally Jonathan's but whatever.

3. El's anger issues are constantly girlboss-ified. They down play her bullying situation and literally just use it for El to be a ''girlboss" without realizing how triggering that is. As someone who has lived bullying, seeing it be ignored by canon and fanon is super sad. The whole Rink-O' Mania experience must have been so traumatizing for her yet, everyone absolutely forgets abt it 🤷🏻‍♀️

4. Robin, Erica and Argyle are stereotypical characters. Robin is the quirky lesbian with social anxiety, Erica is the badass black woman and Argyle is the Latino stoner that sells weed to white kids and works as a pizza delivery guy.

5. Altho Argyle and Eddie both do drugs, (Eddie actually sells K-12 to a minor and nobody batted an eye. He has a huge fan base). Eddie is held in a pedestal bc "poor thing 🥺 he lives in a trailer with his uncle 🥺". Tell me a single fact you know abt Argyle that isn't "he smokes weed", "he is Jonathan's only friend", "drives a van" and "he works at a pizzeria". Exactly, Eddie is given a useless backstory and Argyle isn't.

6. Dustin stopped being important to the plot sometime around s2 and s3. He is only there to curse and be mildly funny. My guy needs to hangout with ppl his age cuz he only hangs out with seniors.

7. El needs to stop having so much "I'M THAT BITCH" screentime like I need in s5 for El's arc to not just be her becoming more powerful and falling in love with Mike. I need the Duffers to explore her trauma and problems.

8. Angela should have been run over by the van.

9. Patrick should have been given a backstory that isn't the basic "strict black parents that hit their kids cuz they are a disgrace". Patrick's backstory is actually racist af, fight w the wall.

10. As Lex already said, they didn't trigger tag the ep where Jason and his friends assault Lucas and Erica. Like wtf? Why was that necessary? Why did I have to see a black boy being held at gunpoint by some white guy?? Was it relevant to the plot?? I don't think so. And then I've got to see ppl online be like "Jason wasn't that bad. He was just mourning" like bitch you can stfu. This is what happens when you make the racist assholes conventionally attractive.

Also the fact that Lucas's arc is fulfilled by him fist-fighting Jason and "embracing his weirdness" aka accepting he is black. His arc was not fulfilled at all cuz that ending spoke so loud to me. It showed how little empathy ppl have towards the struggles poc ppl living in the Midwest have. Y'all circle jerks can only see racism when it's super obvious.

Furthermore, parents complained when ST showed "an excessive amount of smoking" yet nobody batted an eye when Billy tried to run over Lucas, when Erica (an 11 y.o ffs) was chased by white kids or when Lucas was held at gunpoint by Jason.

All of this happened while they focused on Max's guilt and mourning that, yeah, are important but certainly not less important than racism!!!

11. In s3, they gave us that whole Nancy vs The Bigots arc that was honestly just triggering and useless. It didn't help Nancy's character at all, quite the opposite it put unnecessary angst.

12. Lonnie being presented as an abuser just for him to never be spoken of again. Can we please get to explore the trauma he left the Byers's with?

13. The fact that both queer relationships are considered "sloppy seconds" is extremely sad. Both Vickie and Mike are rebounding from their failed relationship with Robin and Will. These 2 ships have caused more commotion than Jancy and Jopper together! (These last ships are technically sloppy seconds too but everybody forgets that. Shocker!!)

14. Last but not least, ppl blame Argyle for being the one to get Jonathan into smoking weed as if Jonathan probably wasn't the one looking for it. Let me tell you, that you only find weed if you look for it.

#P.S: I'm gonna pay attention to how many ppl send me hate bc of this or block me #stranger things #lucas sinclair #st vickie #robin buckley #jason stranger things #will byers #dustin henderson #eddie munson #argyle #jonathan byers #erica sinclair #byler #← target audience #byler target audience

659 notes · View notes

scheodingers-muppet · 1 year

Text

Stranger Things Characters and Ships as Taylor Swift Songs

I'm back on my fan-casting ST characters as random things I like. Today, Midnights.

(also let me know if you want any of the other albums because I have so many big emotions)

Lavender Haze: The skittle six (older kids) "You don't really read into my melancholia" is Jonathan and Argyle. Jon is like those dogs with the big sad eyes and Argyle just loves it. "I've been under scrutiny. You handle it beautifully" is Steddie, from both sides. Steve with his past King Steve and Eddie seeing past it and loving him anyways. Eddie with the witch hunt and Steve staying by his side. The verse about the bride and past history is Ronance. Also "lavender haze" just sounds like queer stoners, so bonus points to the boys here.

Maroon: Stancy. I think Nancy did love Steve but not the way she thought she did. "The burgundy on my t-shirt" and the Halloween party. I also think they fought a lot towards the end and we just didn't see it. I also think Nancy regrets the fight right after. She didn't want it to end in a fight, because she does love him, just not romantically. I think Steve would hold a lot of anger right after but eventually forgive her.

Anti-Hero: Steve. He still sees himself as the jerk he used to be and struggles to forgive himself. Also the line "Pierced through the heart but never killed" and the fact this man takes beating after beating

Snow On The Beach: Elmax. I have a headcannon that El loves the sky and watching the stars and she would 100% stargaze with Max during their sleepovers sometimes. She would totally compare Max to stars, like in the line "I searched aurora borealis green, I've never seen someone lit from within" and Max would without a doubt respond with "You're so weird, I love you" because that girl cannot take a compliment but wants El to know how much it means to her. Also, El would base her romance on the movies she watches with Max

You're On Your Own, Kid: Jonathan and Steve. Jon was practically raising himself and helping raise Will. I love Joyce, but I think she forgets Jonathan is still a kid too. The best of friends line can be about Argyle or Nancy. He said he wanted to go to school close so he can be with Will, when his dream school is apparently NYU. "I gave my blood, sweat, and tears for this" could be about all of them, but Jon was the one who had to pick out Wills casket; by himself. He had to protect Will from hearing their parents fight. He took on the load of the divorce and picked up all the pieces; his, Will's, and Joyce's. For Steve, his parents suck. We've all decided that. But he filled his house with people via the parties and the bridge is very Steve coded. I need Steve and Jonathan to become friends in season 5 or will cry. They're opposite sides of the same coin.

Midnight Rain: Nancy. She just wants to make a name for herself. She feels guilty about the fight with Steve but also feels she wouldn't get what she wanted with him. Also, "a deep portal, time travel. All the love we unravel and the life I gave away." Season 4 and going back to when she was still with Steve. I think it also fits with Jonathan, with the fight about the job at the paper. These boys just wanted the "dream life," Steve with his white picket fence and family, Jonathan with a decent job. Nancy wants more.

Question...? : Stancy. This album is very Stancy coded. This song specifically about Nancy cheating on Steve with Jonathan and Steve thinking the sleepover in season one was cheating too. Also Mike and El in season 4.

Vigilante Shit: El. Season 2 with the sister plot but also season 3 with her and Max having the makeover after the breakup.

Bejeweled: El and Will to Mike. Mike needs to get his shit in order and stop ignoring his people. But also, the line “some guy said my aura’s moonstone just cause he was high” being about Argyle is so funny to me

Labyrinth: Will. “I’ll be getting over you my whole life” The fear of falling for someone you think won’t ever love you back. Mike was the only friend who really showed he cared about Will’s trauma. “You know how much I hate how everyone expects me to just bounce back”

Karma: Honestly, the closest I can get is El and hitting Angela in the face with the roller skate.

Sweet Nothing: Lumax. I think Max would start writing to deal with her trauma after everything, and I think the only people she'd feel comfortable showing would be Lucas and El. El is in California, so Lucas gets to read all her writing. Pair that thought with the verse about writing a poem. Also, I think Lucas will fully just love her and not ask for anything, which scares her but also makes her feel loved in ways she never thought was possible.

Mastermind: Steve. That man is so much smarter than anyone gives him credit for, specifically in his ability to work a crowd and get people to like him.

The Great War: Byler. They're endgame, let's be honest here. Also, imagine Mike gets hurt in the final battle and Will is holding him, trying to keep him awake and he's crying. Mike is looking up at him and whispers "Don't cry. I promise if we make it out, I'll make sure to never make you cry again."

Bigger Than The Whole Sky: Steddie (I’m sorry)

Paris: Elmax (Specifically El) and season 3 with them living in their own world at the beginning and then nothing goes wrong and they have a Summer of sleepovers together and they're happy and in love

High Infidelity: Nancy. Her cheating on Steve, yes, but also, Steve and the movie theater in season 1. Jonathan ditching the plan they made together without talking to her. Nancy growing up in an environment where romantic love is not shown well and the only experiences she's had have been filled with monster hunting and guys who did her wrong.

Glitch: Steddie. Opposite sides of town, supposed to be just-friends, situation-ships, things in your system. Love them.

Would've, Could've, Should've: All the girls tbh. El and growing up the way she did. Max and dealing with Billy and having an unhealthy home life in general. Robin, Nancy, and Erica and getting thrown into the Upside Down. Even Joyce, with her ex husband.

Dear Reader: Nancy and Joyce. They mirror each other in very interesting ways, I think. They're both very headstrong and fierce. I think they also both struggle with feeling like they aren't enough though. We know Nancy blames herself for Barb. And season 2 with Joyce being so overprotective of Will shows that she most likely felt she could have saved him if she was there more. They both feel like they're falling apart.

#stranger things #taylor swift #midnights

2 notes · View notes

more-than-stranger-things · 2 years

Text

I think the Duffers are cowards (said in the nicest most respectful way btw) for not killing Steve... in some ways actually, his death would have had a bigger impact on the group because they’ve known Steve longer and he’s become a keystone in the family dynamic... I think if they had to kill a main character, it probably should have been Steve or Nancy... Nancy because Vecna could have possibly used her guilt she feels over not being able to save Barb, against her... or something like that. I think killing Eddie just because they needed someone to kill was kind of heartless, since someone needed to take the fall and Eddie was sacrificed for the plot that could have been much better if a main character was killed off. I hate to say it, but even Jonathan would have been a better choice, since his death would have a great effect on Will and his ultimate story line, I also kind of hated what they did to Jonathan in S4... he’s much more than a stoner. Anyways, I think it would have been a better plot if they’d had the guts to kill off Steve :( honestly, he wasn’t even supposed to make it through S1 anyway, in the first place...

#stranger things opinions #stranger things #I kinda want to Rp this...#steve harrington #stranger things s4 #eddie munson

6 notes · View notes

purpleyin · 2 years

Text

Stranger Things 4x03 - 4x07

Lots of rambly thoughts on the rest of Volume 1, most of which will be familiar for anyone from the Stoncy server who read my comments on there. Spoilers for all the eps mentioned above but there’s no discussion of any vol 2 trailer scenes, just complete speculation about future things based on vol 1 stuff.

4x03

So, this was the ep we started getting more Steve/Nancy moments and it was way more than I expected we'd get tbh, even though they didn't get to team up on her hunch for driving reasons. I loved that small moment where she sees them at the car and there's the little wave between them and her relief at the gang turning up just as things get weird.

Also liking Robin/Nancy team-up. I related so hard to Robin being rambling and not knowing if she was annoying Nancy or not since she didn't know her really.

Getting to ep 3 and there's still no Joyce and El bonding... I didn't have high expectations but I thought we'd get more than 1 shared dinner scene where she storms out of without Joyce even seeing if she's fine.

I am liking Murray more this season. I found him irritating a lot in previous seasons but he's surprisingly okay this time.

Me: hoping Dr Owens is in this season. Also me: no not like that. The computer message he wrote during his talk with El read like he was a spy or similar because it seemed to refer to pentagon in a kind of external way. Making him look likely to be either a sleeper Russian spy or part of some even more secret government agency, either of which wasn't looking good. I suppose at least someone believes in El and is helping her, got her out of the arrested situation, though I'm not sure it is good for her outburst in the rink to have no consequences. I feel like Joyce or Hopper need to talk to her about that at some point in the future.

Not a fan of how the writers keep writing Lucas plots that put him at odds with the main group, they did that in S1 with his not trusting El and S2 with his betraying the group's trust telling Max about everything without getting agreement to do that. S3 just had all that relationship BS Mike and Lucas angsted over instead which I wish I could forget about.

Still not onboard for stoner!Jonathan but the line about 'blip' did amuse me.

I started to like Eddie more this ep, mainly because I felt sorry for him and how he's yet another person where things happen to them, because Hawkins. Also, not that we have time for it this season but I feel like Robin and Eddie could end up being good friends.

Normally I'm all for any safety measures you can take, but I still liked Joyce's 'like this is really gonna save me if we crash' re the buckling up on the plane.

Jopper feels at Hop being protective of Joyce when Enzo mentions liking her. Of course, Joyce really can take care of herself and she's on her way to rescue him so.

I love Steve's 'should we be here' re the trailer park 😂

Big oof at the whole palaver Hop has to do to get his shackles off. I really don't know how he is walking on that injury afterwards.

I know that the school counselor has a perfectly reasonable explanation for not talking to Max about what Chrissy said to her, but it'd be a twist if she was involved and helping pick the Vecna victims.

Much feels about everyone having thoughts on Steve and Robin not dating and Steve obviously keeping her secret.

<3❤️ at the Ronance team up getting results. Grinned at Robin's voiceover and Nancy assuming it's a joke moment 😂 Also their "we leave them alone for two hours" 😂 I can't fault Steve's babysitting for keeping them all alive, but the amount of crimes committed on his watch is climbing.

With the Weekly Watcher call in the archives Robin makes, I feel like Robin in a modern AU might well be into the magazine Fortean Times.

4x04

My memory of what happened in what ep isn't so good now but I think this is the ep that Lucas gave Jason and co the slip? I assume so since Lucas was around later for the lamp moment with Steve at the school. It was cool to see him lead Jason to a few false leads before he got away. I wish it had been possible for him to say something but I can understand why he didn't, not wanting to rock the boat and not having any real sway with them as a relative newbie. It was smart to stick close by to get a heads up on what they planned to do but glad to see Lucas finally getting to be with his friends.

So this was the ep stuff really heated up, just very intense. The Max stuff was great, and loved the Max/Lucas this season so far, but also yay for the California gang getting to do stuff finally. I was so worried for Max the whole ep, so relieved at the end, just hoping they don't do a double fake-out and have her die later on instead. <3 that her happy moments included friendship ones.

All the Steve feels from the start of this ep, his having questions and feeling benched with the babysitting duties and not being able to help play academic.It felt like he wants to go with Nancy to protect her both these past two eps and yet it never makes sense so far so he's just flailing around with those emotions. I was lol at the protecting people a lamp moment though. :D

Sort of equally annoyed and amused at Robin being so nosy about Nancy's room, but oh that double take about her having the Tom cruise poster still when Steve dressed up as a Tom Cruise character for Halloween when him and Nancy were dating.

That 1 agent defending the California gang really held his own against all those guys coming in. RIP him though but glad Argyle cared even if he wasn't thinking through the headstone idea. I was actually really surprised when they hauled the guy into Argyle's van, assumed he'd be a goner defending their escape rather than later.

The Russian stuff is just a saga of me thinking 'poor Hopper's feet!' First the breaks, then probably frostbite from no shoes - I was dearly hoping one of the smugglers crates would be like some trainers or something to get on his feet.

Nancy and Robin investigating and Robin's massive speech to get them the interview with Creel was fun. The flashback story is all kinds of creepy but I love the slowly unfurling plot with this and them not yet seeing how it relates to everything else. Them all investigating is really great in genera and a big part of why I'm enjoying this season so much I reckon.

4x05

Definitely not a fan of how they have Dustin putting Steve down this season. Steve may not be smart but the things they've had Dustin complain about (not knowing where the torches came from?) didn't seem stupid to me. The Dustin and Steve quarrelling is 😢 I guess what's interesting about Dustin thinking Eddie is cool is that Eddie had failed his senior year twice and is on attempt number 3. Would be interested to know if that's just that he's not great academically (so maybe Steve has that in common with him and Dustin still things Eddie cool despite that) or if that could be on purpose to stay in Hawkins and close to the kids if Eddie is an escaped lab kid...The 1983-1984 year he first failed would be the academic year that had S1 events in the first semester

Also, Steve asks a lot of questions that get dismissed as not important but I'm kind of expecting that - similar to s3 when Steve noticed the music in the coded message but that got dismissed until later when he figured it out – one of them might actually end up being a very good question the others ignored. Like, why the clock. The clock is such important and unique imagery but the others dismiss that question and I think maybe it could come back round later on.

I'm 'oh Steve' at his bungling the Sherlock Holmes quote while trying to seem smart with Nancy. Especially after they make a big deal of Robin being rambly with her crush in earlier eps for that parallel. I don't know they needed that given how much tension was there in that scene without words but Steve being smooth for random dates but dorky only for people he really cares about is such a fun trope and I'm so here for Steve becoming a flustered fool around Nancy. He's the one giving out love advice in earlier seasons about playing things cool, not appearing too interested, but he's now no better than Robin around his own crush. I'm just hoping Steve getting a black widow on him isn't foreshadowing a death for him. Also that line about all of them 'going out' once Jonathan's back, followed up with 'but I'm not dating Robin, it's platonic' is great fuel for the Stoncy agenda.

I love Joyce being so cool under pressure and getting on with things ❤️ I feel like her talents are being wasted on her sales job.

The whole memory thing with the Nina project and her being forced to work with 'Papa' 😭 Also that stuff fed the idea about Eddie being an escaped kid from there since there's some kids that could look like a younger Eddie but no idea what time frame this was to figure out if the ages match up. It's a reach to be sure.

Also I was wondering when Jamie Campbell Bower would turn up, so yay about him being the lab attendant here. I remember hoping that this wasn't all he does this season and that definitely wasn't a problem in the end! It's a very creepy vibe from him this ep even though he seems okay, or as okay as anyone at the lab could be.

I was hoping this ep would give some answers about the whole ep 1 flash back massacre but no dice, they really draw that mystery out in the volume. After this ep I was wondering if things not being as they appear is maybe a theme of the season. That maybe it only looked like El massacred the kids, although I was wondering if Kali's powers came into it but that was the bit I was wrong about.

😭 at Hop thinking he's cursed/is a curse. I love that we got a bit more backstory and I do love me some angst, but also just want him to have some legitimate hope for better this season please. He needs a hug and he gets one later so yay.

Wondering what the chances are Dmitri Antonov/Enzo will survive the season. I kinda like him but he doesn't have plot armour unlike Hop so I'm nervous he'll end up another Alexei.

4x06

I hate what the character is doing but the actor for Jason is pretty good.

So happy we got Suzie scenes and her chaotic siblings all helping out with the plan. Though they for sure took liberties with the computing stuff and some being before its time. I didn't notice at the time but there was html and css in some of the code on screen and neither had been invented by that time, nor does it make sense to be used in that way. Their use of geolocation data also doesn't really work like that, especially not in an era without IP registries and without the lots of data with locations we have now with a large internet that gets used to try to approximate geolocation, so getting exact coordinates out of it doesn't make sense unless the computer she connected to happened to have that info sitting around? Also from what I understand it was mainly large corporations and government and universities connected to what turns into the internet, so it's definitely notable that Suzie's family has a computer and that it's online. I wonder what her dad does for work that they have this. Wiki seems to suggest there weren't any commercial Internet Service Providers in the US until 1989.

Argyle and Eden was a random aside but kind of sweet too. Love her aesthetic, wondering if she comes along in volume 2. I'm not sure it would make sense for her to overall, but it could be fun still.

😭 at JBC's lab attendant telling El some of the truth and then getting punished for it. The whole thing about 1 being a sad story was ominous and had me wondering if 1 disappeared to the upside down, or became consumed by rage or something (or both and became the mindflayer?). I wasn't that far off with my guesses there. Though I also had been wondering could he be 11s dad. I always assumed Brenner was, that he had a relationship with one of his test subjects and then that's why 11 is special to him but maybe that's not it at all.

Loving that canon confirmed lifeguard Steve because I have this S3 AU fic idea where he gets the lifeguard job rather than Billy, no Scoops Ahoy for Steve, and ends up flayed but ultimately saved and it's just a nice bit of ooh things aligning even though I didn't need it to be canon. Also, he's wanted to be useful and has been frustrated at not being able to contribute the last few eps so Steve just seems glad to have something he can do now, that he is best at with his 2 minutes holding his breathe and being a strong swimmer. He gets to be protective!Steve like he's been trying to be since like ep3.

🎉 for Hop finally getting some fighting spirit back at the end of this ep. Also love Murray and Joyce going with the flow, doing what they need to even though it's a mad plan but it's all they got to get to Hop.

That ending with Steve 😭 obviously we know Nancy is coming to the rescue but he doesn't, probably think he's done for. Even if he's saved that's quite some whump. Half strangled and lots of small stab wounds. And his back kinda torn up from being dragged. <3 Robin 🤝 Steve 🤝 Nancy trio being ride or die.

4x07

Wow that episode was epic. The battle with the demobats in particular was brutal. I am still so worried for Steve though. Those bites do not look good and him biting into one of the bats seemed A Bad Idea. Like, let's not ingest any more upside down gunk than you have to+ that line as they enter the trailer later in the ep about breathing in too much and having it stuck in his throat and no one else complains of that. Might not bode well for Steve if they have venom or something like El had infecting her leg end of s3. I worry about him dying but it would make a more interesting twist if it lead to corrupted!Steve of some kind.

I was surprised we didn't get a Stancy you're not dead hug but maybe because it's something they both probably wanted a little more than they might be willing to admit.

Eddie is still growing on me. I'm hoping we might get Steve and Eddie friendships + them having solidarity about not being academically gifted but having their own strengths/skills would be cool to see. Loled at him giving his vest to Steve to cover up. I was a bit sad that when Eddie admitted to Steve that Dustin always talked him up Steve didn't say anything to bolster Eddie because clearly Steve thought similar about Dustin idolising Eddie and him feeling jealous of that. They're both feeling jealous of each other but they don't need to be in competition

I had thoughts about them going to the skull rock make out spot Steve popularised. Especially the hiding there in the upside down, with the kind of intimate dressing wounds scene happening there. On the one hand did Stancy ever go there to make out, kinda awkward if so although obviously they've got bigger concerns right then. But if they never went there could be a thing of Steve thinking 'this is not how I wanted me and Nancy ending up here together'. Also had feels about Nancy having dived in for Steve at Lovers Lake. They're not being remotely subtle about the Stancy but I can't say I'm not enjoying it.

But once again, I am not here for the trope of 'outsider commenting on ship being obvious' for Stancy this time. I love all the Stancy moments but they did not need the Eddie poking Steve about that really and it just seems to be a thing the writers like doing for their ships. Like, no, if you want to write ships you should not be relying on that to point them out. And it wasn't necessary either, because the moment of Nancy diving after him spoke volumes itself (whether taken as romance or friendship, it's a deep bond there clearly). I would've rather had more Steve and Eddie get to know each other / gen type conversation instead.

The upside down being literally stuck in the past moment of its creation did create interesting plot obstacles this ep but I'm wondering if they're gonna do a big meta narrative thing about letting go of the past for the characters to go with closing it off/end of the show.

For anyone who didn't catch it, Nancy's diary pages had an entry about her encouraging Barb to talk to a boy at the library but Barb being so shy about it. Also it mentioned Nancy liking romance books.

I was sigh at the older gang not knowing any morse code (except Eddie's as the newcomer randomly knowing SOS) after it was a literal plot point in S2 with Will's tapping on the chair

The bit where they're playing chess in the rainbow room they very clearly show every move which feels a deliberate choice. We were chatting about this on the Stoncy server and I think we worked out El's knight is taken by a bishop and then she takes his bishop with a pawn. There's also a couple of moves that get repeated from her and then him, but on the repeat her pawn is placed on a different square E5>F5 the 1st time but then E5>H5 on the repeat, if I got my chess notation right. Not sure if the repeat is a goof or deliberate.

When JBC's character said the chip made him weak or whatever it was he said, that was the moment I started to think 'shit, he's 1' and then of course it goes rapidly downhill from there. I do love this tying into how she did escape, with the pipe out. Many feels at 1 probably picking El because she cares enough to offer to help him in return and take that chip out. A lot of the other kids seem meaner, less altruistic than her, but presumably he needs someone of sufficient power too. It's a surprise she turned out so well adjusted considering what the lab seemed to do to some of them, with so many of them turning out bullies.

The chip or whatever One had, Soteria, I checked the name for and of course Brenner named it after a goddess of safety/salvation. Apparently also sometimes another name for Persephone so maybe they'll go for some Hades mythology ties with the upside down?

Henry Kreel and his attic flashback had a cult vibe. It would be interesting if there is a cult just not the obvious one the town mob thinks. The whole spider thing is interesting too, how he calls them gods of our world, which is a really weird thing to say, even for him. And then there's the thing about him finding order restrictive. I'm wondering if a s5 dnd related concept might end up being Lolth, Queen of Spiders and The Lady of Chaos since chaos would be the opposite of order. Also kind of wondering if they'll go for any thing where his interest in the black widows and getting bitten by a spider caused the manifestation of his powers or the like but that seems more comic booky so less likely for their tone of show.

The Jopper hug and aww that little smile as he nuzzles her hat <3

I did rewatch the Vecna origin stuff a fair bit and came back to how One said they were similar and that tip of she could use emotion to fuel her powers, that he used sadness/anger for his, which did sometimes work for her. But then when she defeats him at the lab she used a happy memory of her mother loving her instead. So I think they're meant to be diametrically opposed that way. He's only grown stronger since with every kill using the psychic energy of his victims, but I think the opposite to balance that is that El has so many more happy memories, and people choosing to be on her side with love and support, not the fear and confusion Vecna uses. Very similarly to how Max gets out of his control with happy memories and the song reminding her, which it did get pointed out is rather like HP and Patronus'. But maybe they could end up with the other characters choosing to give (psychic) power to El, tather than just via the memories route. I don't know if the thing with them interacting with the upside down like with the lights could be considered evidence others have some power, not like El, but everyone having some capability, because it was interesting that they said doing that felt good to interact with the light to make it flicker. And the music for those moments is so light and hopeful. I really love the score for those bits.

This ep also kind of made me want to do a crackvid bit for him to 'one is the loneliest number' 😂 (though to be clear I don't have any sympathy for One because he was clearly a serial killer way before the lab mistreated him).

I'm still wondering what the relevance of the clock at the Creel house/hallucinations is. I know it's probably just included because of some 80s horror films that had one, but it seems so unique imagery wise. Is it just because time is an aspect of the order than One/Vecna rejects? I know the characters scoff at Steve saying 'why the clock, is Vecna a clockmaker or something', but I'm wondering if there is a bit more to the clock. Also, in the flashback is he psychically rewinding the clock or is he actually turning back time? I'm not sure if I'd be onboard for the show doing time travel.

Also hella curious why Nancy sees all the Creel house stuff while Vecna is controlling her. As a viewer I know it's a narrative device to intersplice the reveal between El's flashbacks to her memory with One explaining, while Nancy is also in the Vecna part of the Upside Down seeing his past, but like, what is the in-universe reason Nancy sees that. Max escaped the stuff Vecna tried to show her and saw the dismantled house, but Nancy saw even more, the origin. She won't be hearing the explanation, just seeing it - there's no Vecna voice post his taunting Nancy about being responsible for barb's death in the blood filled pool, the rest is all One's explanation to El. But she's smart so I guess she will draw some conclusions from what she sees, about Henry Creel being Vecna and also about being 1 with Brenner tattooing him. I'd be onboard for some of the kids/teens having more psychic power than normal, sort of resistance to the psychic powers of Vecna. Nancy would have high Intelligence as a stat and given their DnD focus I think having it be Intelligence as the thing that allows people to see past his illusions would make sense. They do describe Vecna, via Steve's comment in an earlier ep, as a wizard that Int would be useful against.

Bold of One to not bother with disabling any of the camera's during his massacre. Guess he assumed it would never matter, but it's that that means they can use the footage for NINA and helping get El her powers back.

Also in awe of the casting for younger El, though I didn't know at the time they did also deepfake Millie's face on a younger actress for some shots where they could.

I'm still stuck on the thing about 'soon there were more' about Brenner making 002 etc. Canonically 1 is about 39 in the ST4 timeline and none of the lab kids would be older than maybe 25ish if alive? So I do really wonder if my instinct that One-the-lab-attendant might be El's father, before we knew he was 1, might not be wrong. Because an 'I am your father' reveal by Vecna wouldn't sound the most out there and Brenner doing something dodgy with impregnating people wouldn't be past his very low ethical standards.

Also very curious about One's claim that no one he killed was 'gone', that they're in his mind still. I hope they rebel and screw him over.

Also hoping overcoming Vecna's attempt at a guilt trip will help Nancy get some closure about her blaming herself for Barb's death.

#stranger things #stranger things 4 #stranger things 4 vol 1 #stranger things season 4 #strangerthings4 #hans watches stuff

1 note · View note

thinger-strang · 3 years

Text

i have some ideas about a "reverse" au; where billy is the indiana native while steve is the california newbie ( @smashmouth-hargrove i said i would tag you)

billy

drives a truck (neils old one that breaks down every few hundred miles) but is saving up for something more flashy

still has a mullet but it's not as shaggy

definitely has a piercing still but doesn't wear the dangly bit unless he's going "out"

wears a lot of ratty tee shirts, still with cut off sleeves for some of them

been working at bennys diner since he got his drivers permit

mostly a loner but friends? with tommy and carol but not besties and definitely not at the top of the food chain

and i feel like billy would be quieter? like still angry and gets into fights all the time but less likely to draw a lot of attention to himself, having grown up a gay kid in such a small prejudiced town

him and max still dont really get along but in more of an "im ignoring you therefore you dont exist" type way

but same basic backstory with his mom and everything just in hawkins

hed get involved with all the upside down shit bc max is part of the party from basically the beginning and while they have a stilted relationship they still look out for each other

im thinking itd be something with el and max would get freaked out by her powers and everything theyre discovering and end up telling billy

he wouldnt believe her at first not until he meets el or something (i don't really have like a plot line worked out)

but i think he'd be lumped with the kids, cant really picture him running around with nancy and jonathan and definitely not hopper and joyce, i think hed end up as a kind of babysitter type accidentally

steve

even bigger hair from swimming in the saltwater all the time

actually canonically a swimmer

seems very laid back, everyone immediately pegs him as a stoner (not wrong but still)

lives in hawkins now bc his parents got a divorce but both were also deemed unfit to have a child so he lives with his aunt claudia now

dustin hates him at first bc he only remembers steve as the awful cousin he's only met once but they grow on each other

steve only wore bright shorts and like crop tops for the longest time until claudia realizes he literally doesn't own warmer clothes and takes him out to get new clothes

hes really charming and everyone kinda swoons around him but doesnt ever take anyone out (he just went through a weird break up and isnt in the mood)

he gets dragged into the upside down shit when he goes to pick up Dustin from dnd (so way earlier in the day than billy gets max originally) and billys at the house so he asks to talk to billy outside and apologizes for starting shit with him at school (they get into a fight bc steve, trying to cover his own gay ass, calls billy a queer and they fight but steve feels awful bc that was shitty he was just really mad about moving idk) and then theres demodogs, steve panics but ends up kicking ass with the bat yay!

him and billy end up becoming really good friends and since steve doesnt have a car, just drives claudias station wagon when he can, billy ends up picking him up and driving him around a lot and they hang out in all the hidey holes billys found over the years

#harringrove #reverse au #fic #my writings

193 notes · View notes

that-thing-that-feeling · 2 years

Note

I'm super late to reading the cast interviews but something that i thought was weird was millie saying that els story line was the darkest we've seen her but then went on to describe the rest of the cali group as the fun/lighter story or something to that effect? Like how is the cali groups plot supposed to be fun? Also noah said his story line was in the more comedy/comedic side of things (something like that anyway)... Like... Idk. Considering how serious the stakes are i thought its a weird way to describe it?

I agree it’s confusing: sorta like how Charlie said it went from Fast Times to Lord of the Flies lol but I get how that works re: Jonathan in a stoner plot first and then later all hell breaking out. But yeah it’s curious why it would be so comedic for Noah for instance: is Will getting bullied at school too, or just El? Is third wheeling depicted as comedic or is it again just referring to the stoner plotline being there? Why would it be comedic for Mike—actually what exactly is Mike’s plot this season? It sounds like he’s miserable in Hawkins, has fun at first on spring break with El, but then she’s taken, so you wouldn’t think his plotline is comedic. But Finn has said he has a lot of scenes with Eduardo. So Cali sounds like this blend where they keep describing it as ET (so the threat is the government); this horrible, dark plotline happens to El which must throw everything into chaos and have everyone very worried, but also a stoner plotline. So is the comedic all coming from Argyle (and maybe Jonathan) before El is taken? Or is argyle also funny and still a stoner on the road trip? Does Jonathan stop smoking so much weed once El goes missing and becomes less comic relief and more Jonathan worried and in big brother mode? It’s def interesting how it’s described as this mix, but does make sense given the stoner plotline, altho I don’t see how it extends as much to Will and Mike. It prob also just depends on who is bickering a lot in the Cali plotline lol—I could see them disagreeing over what to do at points

#jonathan byers #Will byers #mike wheeler #el hopper #stranger things 4 spoilers #stranger things 4 speculation

7 notes · View notes

skullrock · 3 years

Note

do you enjoy hypothesizing about the future of the show? If you do, how do you think they’re approaching s4 and what’s something you’d like to see them do with Steve and Robin’s characters? Or any other characters? Personally I am hoping they fix Nancy’s personality......

genuinely head empty about s4 i have virtually no idea what the hell they’re doin over dere. but i can speak on what i’d like <3

for steve and robin i am rly hoping they do not try to give either of them a partner. i think this season should not have another “steve being lovesick” plot line. i rly just think the two of them should get closer and grow - i would rly love to see steve gain some self worth. i think conflict with the two would also be interesting, but i’m not sure what the conflict could be. a misunderstanding maybe? either way i think some conflict would be good, so long as it’s resolved in a genuine way and not like how the j4ncy s3 fight was handled.

i also have said this numerous times but i rly do want a steve death fakeout where everyone thinks he died but he’s fine <3

i also hope they stabilize nancy’s personality or at the very least give her some genuine character growth. i seriously love nancy and she was my second favorite character during my first watch - but then season 2 happened, and then season 3 happened, and i really think the writers kind of lost the heart of her character. like nancy isn’t just a bad bitch ... she’s a moron and she’s kind and she’s smart yet stubborn. and s3 just made her unlikable because they gave her protagonist disease and instead of nancy teaming up with jonathan, as she did the past 2 seasons, she completely ignores him and honestly treats him like shit, even past the (rly bad) elevator apology. like when did she start thinking jonathan was a dipshit that didn’t believe in her. jonathan stuck by her through EVERYTHING ... s1 and honestly s2 nancy does not strike me as someone who would doubt that trust and relationship. but that’s just me 💕 i also don’t think s3 was poorly written or bad, i just think Choices Were Made !!!

also i hope they let jonathan be a stoner. he should be high in everyone scene.

as for the kids, i hope the kids mend their relationship with each other - i think s3 was a bit rocky in terms of their dynamic (lucas and mike ignoring will and literally not even checking on dustin, the max v mike thing) and i just wanna them be friends again. however, just based on leaks, it seems like the kids will be split apart more. which i think can be interesting for a bit, watching them all fall out, everyone thinking they need to be alone or that others are weighing them down or that they’re too old to hang with each other anymore. but maybe in the middle of the season, once everything picks up, they join teams again and rekindle their friendship. i am all for conflict! i would just really like to see it have a purpose and an outcome that strengthens the character and isn’t lost as an insignificant plot point.

these r just my thoughts!! thanks for asking!

#answered #anonymous #long post

7 notes · View notes

centaurianthropology · 6 years

Text

The Magnus Archives ‘Return to Sender’ (S03E16) Analysis

With what feels like two separate stories slammed together in this episode, it was never going to be my favorite. And though we have some tasty meta, I was left feeling a bit disappointed, and more than a bit confused on several points. Come on in to hear what I think about ‘Return to Sender’.

It was inevitable that, after the extreme high water mark that has been the first part of season 3 (the initial bloc of episodes contained some of the strongest material to date from the show, in my opinion), having an episode that really didn’t land for me was inevitable, and would inevitably feel jarring. That was ‘Return to Sender’, which felt like two good episodes both trimmed way down and slammed together. It was the same problem I had with ‘Section 31’ last season. There were several stories in that one, all potentially promising, and all severely undernourished to the point of not being memorable at all.

‘Return to Sender’ only has two such stories, but they still have that distinct feeling of not being long enough to realize their full potential. Both feel important. Both feel like they have a lot to say, both about the plot and about where Sims is as a character right now. So it’s a real shame that the whole thing feels rushed, and major beats fly by without being given the weight I felt like they deserved.

I’ll talk about the two separately first, and I’ll dig into what meta we can glean. Then I’ll talk about why the episode, when taken as a whole, didn’t really work for me.

The first story, which seemed to work better for me, involves Jon going to investigate the previous location of Breekon & Hope. We find out that Breekon & Hope was the name of the company before the delivery men we know took it off the former owner and took the names for themselves. We also know that they are all but confirmed to have been the two strong-men from the Circus of the Other. Given that, their purpose, which had seemed to me to be a bit more freelance, is actually to move important artifacts around in service of the Stranger.

As Sims himself mentioned in this part, it’s a bit light on meta, but understandably. I never thought Breekon & Hope were going to be wealths of information, being more ferrymen than players in the game. Why he felt so hellbent to find their story, I’m not sure, though I figure it’s the Archivist driving him on, making him desperate for any new story.

Indeed, the real intrigue in the first part is Sims’ reaction to standing in this location where someone died, having collected the statement from where Elias left it for him. He himself is bothered by the notion that the death seems inconsequential to him, that his major irritation comes from Elias being a showy prick, rather than the fact that a man struggled and died in that place. Sims sounds more like Gertrude in this part of the episode than he ever has before, and following on the heels of me dubbing him Head Asshole of the Magnus Institute last week for not even bothering to check in with Martin and the rest of the assistants, this seems properly worrisome. His humanity seems to be slipping away at an accelerated rate, and he’s not even trying to hold onto it.

So, yes, the story was a bit light on meta, but it was a good story, and well told. It was nice to hear Jon read a statement again. It was interesting to see him realizing how quickly the Archivist is eclipsing Jonathan Sims. Spooled out a bit, maybe with a confrontation with Elias or something, and I think that this would have been a really good episode.

But instead, brace yourself for whiplash, because we transition directly into the second story. These two are nominally tied together with the log book Jon found at Breekon & Hope, which has allowed him to track the shipments of the Stranger’s packages. This, again, would be a really interesting idea. Concluding the Breekon & Hope episode with the idea that he’s going to start using that book to trach these packages would have been a good hook.

Instead, we hard cut to him at the taxidermy shop from ‘Still Life’, apparently working without any sort of fuss or fear with Daisy. Um, what? I don’t expect this show to hand-hold me or spoon-feed me information. Far from it. But a bit of context is always a good thing. How long is this segment after the former one? Does Jon have Daisy’s number in his phone? Did he contact Elias, who sent Daisy to pick him up? Is this the first time they’ve worked together? Certainly they seem weirdly comfortable in one another’s company all of a sudden, which is quite the change from Daisy wanting to shoot him in the face. Also there was no mention at all of Basira, like Daisy asking after her and Jon not having an answer because he hasn’t bothered to check on Basira since she was taken hostage? That would have been an ideal conversation for these two to have.

But, no. Sudden jump to them confronting Sarah Baldwin, and I feel really bad for that character. Having her shoehorned into the end of this episode after some great buildup early in the series feels like a disservice. I’m hoping we get more of her later to let her shine, because this came and went too fast to leave any sort of notion who she is now or what the Anglerfish’s thing might be.

We’re also missing the bridge between Sims being at least concerned with his slipping humanity in a rather detached way, and the stone cold Sims we get in this latter half. He’s shaking off any threat Daisy might pose, and the only time he broke his cool was at the mention of Sasha. He didn’t seem to mind that Sarah Baldwin escaped, nor was he shocked. He’d got her statement, the story, and that was all that mattered. The hunger for information was good, but needed room to breathe in the middle of everything else happening.

And we’re also introduced to the taxidermy skin from ‘Still Life’ again. Apparently it’s a critical piece of the Unknowing, and to slow that down Gertrude had murdered the former owner of the shop and stolen the skin. And then, in a move that felt more like Jonathan Sims, idiot extraordinaire, than anything else in that latter half of the episode, Sims just out and out admits he has no idea where the skin is. Sarah bolts, ready to tell the Stranger that the new Archivist is a moron, and that’s that.

Like I said before, each of these halves could have been a really good episode unto itself. The first would have been a quieter episode, but I could have dug that. The latter would have been fairly fraught, but Jon actively interrogating a being—not asking for a statement, but a proper interrogation—would have been a really cool thing to explore over 20 minutes. Jon and Daisy having to uncomfortably work with one another would have been interesting. Giving Sarah Baldwin more time to draw out the creepiness of the Anglerfish, still one of the most frightening entities from this series, would have been phenomenal.

Instead, everything felt like it was rushed, and all the story threads got the short shrift in order to pack them in. I think that both parts of this were probably necessary, and maybe the numbering of the episodes just didn’t work for them to be two episodes and still get to the mid-season finale on episode 20 of this season. But I really wish they had found a way.

I don’t want to make it sound like there was nothing good here. Though it was rushed, I now imagine that the Stranger’s efforts to retrieve the skin are going to lie at the center of the mid-season finale. I also think that Jon doesn’t yet realize how dangerous that information is. If I can figure that out, you bet that Nichola Orsinov can. And you bet she’ll be sending some visitors to the Archives to retrieve that skin.

And the assistants STILL don’t know anything, what with Jon apparently now partered with fucking Daisy of all people. Without the key information about the Unknowing and the Stranger, the assistants don’t know not to help some envoy of the Stranger. They don’t know not to let someone from the circus in. And Nichola would almost certainly view killing them all as an added fuck-you to the Beholding, so you know she’d do it if she could. And even if Elias could stop any direct incursions by the Stranger, what if the Stranger were to approach someone like Tim? What if Nichola were to offer Tim freedom in exchange for a creepy old bit of taxidermy skin? He’d go for it in a second.

And speaking of Elias, we also have the most interesting line of the episode from Sarah Baldwin: “Is that what he’s calling himself now?” This, alone, was the one line I’m happy they breezed past. It was the one beat that didn’t feel rushed, because it should be something that spools out over many episodes. So as far as pacing goes, that beat did land really well for me.

It seems pretty clear that whoever Elias Bouchard was before, the thing wearing his body is at least no longer him in entirety. There likely was the original stoner Elias, but he was either replaced by someone else or willingly took on the mantle of something else, making him a hybrid of his own personality and that of something else. And honestly, I have to wonder if that personality isn’t Jonah Magnus. What if the founder of the Institute found a way to pass from body to body, either completely consuming or living in symbiosis with the current head of the Institute? It would lend a lot more weight to Elias’ arrogance so far, if he was the beating heart of the Magnus Institute by literally being the beating heart keeping Magnus alive. And when he dies, he would pass into the next head of the Institute. When he said that killing him would kill everyone there, he wasn’t talking about the body of Elias, perhaps, but the mind of Jonah Magnus.

Or at least that’s the theory I’m running with. It’s by far the most interesting meta coming out of this episode, as Elias continues to be one of the most intriguing aspects of season 3, even when he isn’t there.

But whoever Elias truly is, I get the feeling that he’s not as in control as he thinks. He loves playing games, proving how observant he is to Jon. He wants Jon afraid and impressed. But Jon’s getting a bit sick of it, and the one thing Elias really can’t seem to control is Jon’s bad decision train. And that train feels like it’s about to come into station. Jon’s diminishing humanity is something Elias is clearly pushing, but I don’t think it’s nearly as good a thing as Elias imagines it to be. It’s endangering his assistants, and rather than using them as touchstones and ways to cling to whatever sympathy and caring he has left in him, he’s running around with Daisy, who isn’t exactly a boost to anyone’s humanity. And without the emotional connection, he’s clearly missing obvious conclusions. He’s too focused on the story, and not enough on the people.

As we come up hard toward the mid-season break (which will follow episode 20 of season 3, for anyone who didn’t know yet), I get the feeling they’re going to leave us with either a cliffhanger or a real shakeup of the current situation. We know that the first half of this season has been Jon going out and trying to be proactive. He’s letting the notion that he’s supposed to save the world go to his head. He’s drifting further away from caring about others and falling further and further into the hunger for information. He’s becoming Elias’ sort of Archivist, and I don’t think that’s going to work out well.

Conclusions

Like I said, this felt like about half of two good episodes accidentally put in a tumble dryer together. We get the first half, which explores Breekon & Hope and Jon’s ever-diminishing humanity, and we have the latter half in which Jon is somehow working with Daisy, who is apparently cool with that now. And Sarah Baldwin is there. And she gets away to tell the Stranger that the new Archivist has no clue what his predecessor did with the skin that’s critical to the Unknowing. So a lot happens in a rather disjointed manner, leaving me feeling unsatisfied. The informational bits we got were good, sure, but lacking in context and grounding. Too much happened too quickly with too little reason to string it all together. And to waste a character like Sarah Baldwin on what amounted to a cameo feels like a damn shame.

I know these episodes can’t all be to my taste, and that’s fine. Really, it’s a testament to the high quality of this series that an episode like this, where my problems stem from writing decisions rather than character actions, feels so jarring to me. I’m guessing this was a one-off thing, made necessary by getting all this information out by the mid-season finale. I’ve very little doubt that next week we’ll be back on track, and I’ll be loving every minute.

Hopefully Jon, as a character, gets his head out of his ass in time to realize what he’s just done. I want to believe that he’s at least smart enough to realize that the Stranger is going to believe that skin is at the Archives, and will likely either try to infiltrate or attack it directly. It would be nice if Sims remembered that there are people at the Archive that he might remember as being friendly with him at some point.

And Jon needs those people, because without them his humanity is slipping away fast. So valuing them and keeping them informed? Sort of a thing he has to start doing if he’s going to be this dumb on the regular.

#The Magnus Archives #Analysis #analyzing episodes I don't particularly like is hard

28 notes · View notes