#all discourse on this ep is just people projecting what they THINK it was saying/what they WANTED it to say
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Step By Step Ep 10 Stray Thoughts
Last week on HR Violations, Jeng made his feelings plain to Pat, and Pat was not prepared for one more emotional blow. Jeng had a complete emotional breakdown in a standpoint bit of acting from Man Trisanu. We spent much of the week unpacking exactly what happened with Pat, and determined that he’s just 25, tired, and overwhelmed. Ae had her baby, and nothing made sense from a practical standpoint. Jeng broke all of us with “It makes sense to me,” and now we’re supposed to just stroll back into this.
I still approve of Jeng doing the responsible thing and keeping his distance from Pat.
I love Chot so much. I am loving this new trend in BL about shows encouraging people to respect the feelings people are expressing, and reminding characters (and viewers) that I takes a lot of courage to express them. It’s still okay to reject people, but treat people kindly. Love Chot making the overall situation plain for Pat and confused viewers.
“It’s been eight years already. I’m used to it,” feels like a subtle commentary on BL itself. Chot has not been able to live his live a openly as he’d like with his boyfriend because the family wouldn’t approve. Coincidentally, that’s the same amount of time we’ve been in the current era of Thai BL. For all the money and interest that’s been poured into BL, lived queer experiences still face daily struggles.
A carrot cake? Pat, please do better.
I see. The show is going to make me cry about Chot. It’s time to write an essay about Step By Step.
“It’s alright. I own this place.” Sir!!!
My man just trashed his own kitchen to get it in.
Smitten looks good on Pat.
He let me hit so I can follow back on Insta
These two have lost all composure. Hooking up in the company parking lot!
Chot is trying to cover for these two, but they are being unfortunately way too obvious.
I’m having complicated reactions to the homelessness scene. Feels like the show wants to quickly shine a lens on an issue important to the filmmakers, but it feels awkward as hell.
Hey, it looks like the Fjord project went well.
Okay, Pat’s dad is funny. I like his specific beef with Jeng. Still, I kinda hoped he’d ask harder questions like, “How is this supposed to work if you’re still his boss?”
They keep going to this one shot when they go to the bedroom that’s clearly from the closet and using Dutch angles. This feels intentionally designed to make me uneasy.
Oh they're using P' and Nong now.
Ben has a happy trail. Let me pause and collect myself.
WHERE IS THE BABY??
Did they give the hets a camera angle kiss??
Oh nevermind it was meant to cut to Pat and Jeng as a potential future.
Now you know Ae was aiming for Pat with that bouquet. She is messy like that.
Wait, so Jaab is seeing someone else now?? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get from Jaab and Jen.
Okay, we found the baby.
I like that Beam and Ae didn't touch each other, if I'm reading this right. Glad we can put this to bed.
Oh, I don't like Jeng promoting Pat into his position. That's not good for either of them.
Suddenly, a glow up for Ying?
Whoa, was not expecting this EXTREME GEN X ENERGY from Ying in Pat's corner.
"Haven't I been strong enough?" is a whole mood.
Yet another instance of BL reminding us that they both have dicks.
"I want to be happy with you." Oh, Jeng. I am also lonely in my 30s. I get it. I really do. But, my man, you cannot put this on Pat.
Pat's resignation was inevitable. Jeng, who's normally so controlled, definitely lost all composure this episode.
I'm not jumping directly into the discourse here, but I will say clearly that I am only watching through Gaga. Do not send me comments, asks, or messages about episodes only available legally through WeTV fast track. I don't subscribe to spoiler culture, but please don't be rude.
As for this episode, I feel a bit muddled. I'm going to spend some time thinking about core themes and seeing what this show actually wants to explore.
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this is absolutely apropos of the "was kurt cobain trans" discourse that always happens Every Fucking February 20th And April 5th. it's a lot of messy, angry, teary-eyed hollering about Kurt and me and how i discovered myself and why i decided to live, but also why people fucking hate thinking of being trans as a positive thing and why i hate that.
cw for suicidal ideation, some drug usage, and transphobia.
so it's 2010. i'm 15 and in a suburban high school. i'm stuck in the liminal space of understanding that i was a trans woman, but also understanding that all i had was a feeling of being disconnected from my body. i had this inexplicable jealousy and yearning to be like all the moody grunge-lite girls that dissected roadkill and stank of menthols and weed. i had moved on from considering myself just a sad, apathetic cis boy with a sensitive side and projecting onto Dead from Mayhem. the hypermachismo of heavy metal was a place i was never welcome, but the anger and angst of being forcibly masculinized was still with me. cue Kurt Cobain.
Kurt Cobain was the new fixation the moment I heard Bleach (via Mayhem's Deathcrush EP and Melvins' Ozma). i tore my pants at the knees, i fell in love even harder with my guitar, and i always got shoved into the urinals by all the scene boys for being an "off-trend homo" with pink nail polish i borrowed from the girls at lunch. the irony of being too girly for guys who wore makeup wasn't lost on me.
so I found myself scouring his journals, seeing how much he talked about being effeminate, growing breasts, hating machismo, being an ardent feminist, revering women, wearing dresses in his private life, and I said to myself, "fuck, this sounds so much like me. Maybe I can get away with being a self-loathing closeted trans woman if this is what it looks like. Maybe he was like me, too."
which, i shouldn't have to stop and do the Spongebob Flying Ice Cream Truck bit and say i'm not imposing my identity onto Kurt fucking Cobain. frankly, i think that's both a loaded accusation and a nonsensical one. in a world where being trans is a non-issue, this would be a non-issue, but alas, this is the "trans women get banned for selfies" site.
it's almost always treated like it's a sin to wonder if a historical figure might've called themself trans, given the chance to, by analyzing their own words and thoughts about themselves, the way they presented themselves in their daily life and art, everything. interestingly, speculating if someone might have been gay/lesbian in the same way is treated with no moral weight, as if we all live in a world where everyone is openly, happily pansexual and that has no bearing on any other part of your identity.
it especially sucks to see from other trans people. i get that patriarchy constantly imposes its will onto our bodies, our minds, our relationships with ourselves and each other and all of culture, i really do. god knows that's stunted all of us in a lot of ways. but that said, do you really think that's the same thing as looking at someone having internal conflicts so much like yours and saying "huh, i wonder if they could have been like me?" how is that "imposing your identity" onto someone? do you think you're going to plague this person with Curse Of Being Dysphoric decades after they died? get real.
"but Heather, what about trans musicians who are alive right now? what about back then?" yeah, i'm a trans musician; what about us? did you go and mosh with the guitarist/singer for Pollyanna (NJ) when you were so stoned you were vomiting out your three-decade depression spell? did you listen to Throbbing Gristle and daydream about being part of your own Pandrogyne project with the only other trans kid in your high school? do you actually care about trans musicians, or are you gonna post a listicle on Medium that reccs everyone Against Me and Cavetown for the umpteenth fucking time? spare me! there's an hour left for Bandcamp Friday, actually - go throw your spare change at some of us if you're that concerned!
i'unno. i'm mad because frankly, i think we as trans people really love to hate ourselves on behalf of patriarchy and wrap it in a veneer of... whatever fucking sociological buzzword is hot right now. anything to convince ourselves that seeing ourselves in people we admire is bad, helping people learn more about themselves as trans people is bad, letting trans people make their own judgements is bad, being trans is bad, bad, bad. eventually you internalize that being alive means being trans, and if being trans is bad, being alive must be bad. if i hated being alive that much, maybe I was like Kurt. too much. i knew the combination to my dad's safe. i knew how to use a shotgun. i knew how to disappear into Northern Michigan.
but i knew how to stop hating myself, too. i'm a math major, kinda. i calculated the number of days it would take me to outlive Kurt. the date figured out to be April 6th, 2022. i said to myself "girl, if you can fucking make it that much further, you have to stop coasting on high-dose edibles every fucking night. you have to go on HRT. you have to love yourself. you have to live."
it's been thirty years since he died, and two years since i decided to take estrogen. i'm finally starting to see myself as a person with her own complicated life, her own shortcomings, her own successes, and her own reason for being alive: i just... have to, y'know? why shouldn't i be? i can't be happy if i'm dead.
i like to think Kurt was the same way: just another flawed human being with his own complications and crowning achievements, as different as they are from mine. i don't really see myself in him anymore. i see myself within me, and that's the best place for me to be.
#heather hollers#long post#i'm baring my fucking heart to the wORLD here deal with me LOL#april 5th#you're not obligated to agree w/r/t speculation but also i am NOT in a mood to debate anyone.
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Literally everything about the Priscilla movie and the discourse it’s inspired is so bad man :(
not saying this in an "i told you so" way whatsoever, but yeah, i mean, we knew it would be. that was unfortunately a given. it's only going to get worse up until and when the movie comes out. EPE (presumably joel) also made the situation even uglier today by running their mouths criticizing it to TMZ and drawing more negative attention when they could've simply ignored it quietly. i realize i'm a slightly broken record here, and repeating a lot of others at this point too, but it's only noise. the people who revile him are always going to revile him and refuse to investigate any further about his person or his humanity, they want him to be a monster and their minds are made up. the people who who want to victimize priscilla to use her as a weapon with no care for her own voice will keep doing that. and the fans who love elvis are going to keep loving elvis. the people who want to see the movie will, the people who don't, won't, and either choice is valid.
this is how it's been for decades, social media just amplifies the unpleasantness, but it's an echo chamber. nobody yelling is attempting to engage with this with any nuance, or regard anyone involved as flesh and blood people who had complex relationships and made mistakes and also felt great love for one another. they're looking for trouble a reason to be hateful and to fight when they don't even understand or truly care what they're talking about. we know he wasn't perfect, we know he made some bad choices, we know he struggled with his health for several different reasons, we know he had a temper. we also know he tried relentlessly to do better, to learn and to grow personally and artistically, and to be generous and kind and giving of himself in myriad ways. which one do you ultimately find more important? because i really do believe it's the compassion and the light.
do i wish that the beautiful work baz and austin did to restore his legacy and personhood was the final word on it? frankly, yes, but that was never going to happen because elvis remains a fascination and an object of pop culture that gets projected onto depending on the agenda of whomever decides to use him as a mirror. it becomes so separated from why his music and memory remains. what they created still matters, and it makes my heart ache to think of it being undone at all, but i think it will ultimately be remembered, much like elvis himself.
i'm so much more interested in his artistry, his spirituality, and his emotional vulnerability than i am in intimate personal details about his life, but i know that's not the case in a lot of the fanbase, and that's fine, i am very selective in what i choose to engage with and i think we all have the right to curate that experience. i know it's SO hard to ignore, but when it comes to this discourse, don't read it, don't participate in it, and guard your mental health however you can. this movie doesn't change anything any more than any other of the many portrayals of him. more eyes are on it because of, essentially, brand recognition - both name of the director and due to the fast timing following the film last year, and all the press and clamor that surrounded it, the things said (both complimentary and unfair) about austin, the rabid nature of social media that lives to tear things apart. but it ultimately doesn't change anything.
this has been said more eloquently, but nothing has eclipsed or erased him, even after these decades of misinformation and spurious rumor and conspiracy theories and everyone and their neighbor exploiting (or inventing) their connection with him for a book or a crummy made-for-tv movie and cruel, dismissive jokes and cardboard cutouts and cheesy impersonators. something about the soul of him still rises above all of that. the positives we glean and inspiration and meaning we find, and the love we hold onto, rises above all of that too.
#it took me too much time to write this and came out longer than i intended lol i'm sorry bestie#i'm just so exhausted and frustrated by all of this (not by you and not your fault!)#anonymous#letterbox#elvis presley#i was a dreamer#priscilla 2023
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Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin ("Michael" S3 EP 11)
We've reached a "Thriller" of an episode, and that was just behind the scenes!
Kevin and Jenna give us all the scoop on making the Michael Jackson tribute, including the good, like Kevin and Harry's successful pitch to Ryan, and the "Bad" ... Jenna reveals why this episode brought back a lot of traumatic memories for her. She details why filming this episode had her questioning her self-worth.
Plus, Kevin admits that he and some of his co-stars went rogue, revealing the consequences of their actions, and the duo ranks the musical numbers!
So, I finally had a chance to listen to this episode and I gotta say I'm surprised it caused so much angst amongst fandom.
I was prepared to be outraged but instead I felt bad for Jenna (Jenna unhinged!), happy for Kevin (Scream was awesome) and I agreed with their assessments of the songs. I'm a Klainer but come on. Ben? That entire scene was terrible. I never understood why Rachel and Finn were there instead of Sam and Santana, and I'll never forget that incredibly weak ass toast to Kurt (yayyyy...WTF?) I agree that Blaine's upcoming absence could have been explained away by a sentence in order to make room for "I Want You Back" which was great. Poor Grant.
Now, I agree that both Kevin and Jenna are still a bit salty about people (Darren) being excused to do other projects and I think it's sad Kevin ended up having to pass on movies because of the show. Apparently there was an obvious double-standard and that's too bad. I appreciate Jenna stating that it wasn't the fault of those who asked. It just was what it was. Fault belongs to Ryan and team.
At the end of the day it sounds like Jenna was simply exhausted and beyond done. Not excusing her behavior but I get it. They were young, overworked and no one was talking about mental health and the importance of stepping away back then. Couple that with seeing people get things you feel you can't ask for and never having any storylines (why am I even here?)...yeah. Hello unhinged behavior.
I know alot of people have stopped listening but huge THANK YOU to those of you who still listen and comment here on tumblr. I love Glee discourse even if it comes via a questionable podcast.
#And That's How YaDiva Sees It#And That's What You Really Missed podcast#Unhinged is my new favorite word
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Heeeyy, it’s the anon who sent in an ask a while ago about shipping Alicent with others out of spite. Feel free to ignore this ask if you’re tired of ship asks (I see you’ve already received more than enough lol) or if it’ll start any unnecessary discourse you’d rather avoid.
Just wanted to pop in and say that most people on Twitter are not okay. I had no followers nor was I following anyone and I had people screenshot a very innocuous Alicole tweet (it was literally a picture of a lady and her knight, basic) and talk badly of me - apparently I am lesbophobic and Cole is misogynist with anger issues 🤷♀️. Newsflash: Rhaenicent is not a healthy ship either, none of ASOIAF ships are.
I then came out as a Larycent shipper. I got ratioed (as much as, again, someone with no followers can).
Anyways, I got bored and deactivated but before I did, things got messy. There was group chat drama, people were saying pro-shippers deserve to be bullied etc.
All this to say that I am frustrated with the performative activism this fandom participates in, though I’m sure the same can be said for other fandoms. What’s the point of defending a celebrity by insulting another celebrity, or worse, another user? (Sorry but I’ll sympathize with a “regular” person over a celebrity any day. Imo, they don’t really care about bullying, they just project onto their favorite character or celebrity.) What makes one inherently morally better by being an “anti” but turn around and shit-talk people’s appearances or character? Real people with real lives and issues. Characters are fictional they do not exist, it comes off as disingenuous and self-righteous. I need people to do better.
Thanks for entertaining this ask, hope you’re doing well!
welcome back, anon. i hope you're doing well, too; don't allow this pointless drama more headspace beyond it being a funny anecdote. also, by this point, you guys should check-in using stage names. :)) or serial killer names. or maybe racing horse names ?? (those are always funny)
I had no followers nor was I following anyone and I had people screenshot a very innocuous Alicole tweet (it was literally a picture of a lady and her knight, basic) and talk badly of me - apparently I am lesbophobic and Cole is misogynist with anger issues
wow, how did they even manage to find you out in a sea of accounts with no followers or following anybody? i can understand the logic of dogpilling on a popular account, because they're visible in the fandom, but this? don't these people have, idk, jobs? do they not have to go to the grocery store or smth? what kind of lame-ass surveillance state? 😂
Newsflash: Rhaenicent is not a healthy ship either, none of ASOIAF ships are.
this is why shipping wars are even stupider in asoiaf-verse. what exactly moral high ground do you think you're defending here? i keep hearing "at least it's not an inc3st ship" well ok congratulations they're fucked up & unhealthy in a different way then?
I then came out as a Larycent shipper. I got ratioed (as much as, again, someone with no followers can).
ohhhhh anon you're a brave one with larycent there! i gotta say i was into it at the beginning bc he was super fucking yandere about it to the point of it being hilarious and, also, who can resist murderous puppy dog eyes ??? but the latter part of the season, esp. ep 9, put me off and i fed myself on the green family dynamics crumbs
Anyways, I got bored and deactivated but before I did, things got messy. There was group chat drama, people were saying pro-shippers deserve to be bullied etc.
group chat drama? is that a discord thing? i feel like it's a discord thing. this is so funny to me bc the only way "group chat drama" leaks is if you have traitors in your midst who screencap and then spread it around. so who are these conspirators? these subversive agents? these freedom fighters? who watches the watchers? 😅
What makes one inherently morally better by being an “anti” but turn around and shit-talk people’s appearances or character? Real people with real lives and issues.
they end up appearance-shaming and have zero self-awareness about it? oh me oh my 💅
performative activism is a very good word for what the moral panic that has taken hold of this fandom, at least on tumblr/twitter. another thing that makes me laugh is when people write page-long essays saying "ofc you can ship whatever you want, BUT..." followed by an entire diatribe on why shipping said thing (even if it's within the confines of fiction and decidedly not irl) puts a stain on your moral character and you should basically be ashamed of yourself 😂 so which is it? can people ship in peace or do you just want a pat on the head for being a good trooper?
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Have quite a lot of thoughts on Jensen's comments about the prequel from his NJCon panels, and his awareness of the hate aimed at The Winchesters and himself.
Below the cut, my commentary, with transcript from the NJCon 2022 Jensen solo and the JenMish panel.
It seems clear that Jensen has seen the hate. Jensen being an EP means that's part of the territory. He's not just an actor now, he's an EP, and with that, has a responsibility over story and vision. So I'm not saying omg it's so wrong to criticize. Also this post isn't for the antis or to tell people how to behave. This post is for prequel fans, to unpack some dynamics of the fandom drama surrounding the prequel and hopefully offer some comfort.
I've witnessed that negative twitter discourse for months (and glad I finally stepped away). While there's plenty of support and love there too. But that critical dialogue was not merely critique, it got really personal and vitriolic at times, with hatred towards the project, towards anyone choosing to support it, and towards assigning bad motives to Jensen for various reasons. And in some cases, towards Danneel and Robbie as well. Not just "I am unsure about this premise, let's discuss."
This isn't to crit-shame anybody. It's about bad faith arguments, a wish to discourage support for the project, and about refusal to give Jensen the modicum of respect he has fully earned, where even if people don't want the prequel, there's no reason to trample all over how much cares, how much he has given to SPN as a show, how dedicated he is, how talented he is, and his own good faith in his reasons for making this. I'm not going to detail the kinds of things said on twitter standom but even if I weren't excited for it I'd still find that miserable to witness.
And for the record, my initial knee jerk reaction based on premise alone was a moment of dismay. Because it isn't the premise I want. And I'll never get over Wayward Sisters not getting picked up, personally. But that was only my initial reaction and the more I learned about it the more I felt confidence. So there is nothing wrong with having doubts, there is also nothing wrong with being excited about it.
But people who are assigning bad motives and moving goalposts and concern trolling, who fall into a relentless, merciless hatedom over it, that isn't where it's at.
So I think that's in the back of his mind with his NJ Con comments.
This part, from Jensen's solo panel, was an earnest, respectful elaboration of his thought process on the prequel, in response to a respectful question about fans who are worried about the premise. I love his commentary here. It's reassuring, and it's also exactly what I was thinking they were doing--filling in gaps. Taking the bits that were there and using that as a framework to reveal more. Not a retcon. Not contradictions of the mothership.
“With the prequel, there is not a lot of planning that was established on the mothership, as we call it, but there was enough, and it was kind of glossed over how Mary met John, how that whole situation happened, but the points that were made on Supernatural are kind of our way points. So we’ll hit those, but we’ll hit them in a way that maybe you didn’t expect, which going back to the great Kim Manners and our director on Supernatural, who said ‘you’ve got to give them what they want in a way they don’t expect it.’ That’s kind of a mantra with this is we’re going to hit those points and we’re going to make sure we touch those and those are tentpoles of what the story is but we get to fill in the gap. And we’re going to do it in a way that is first off, entertaining, but also services the lore that is Supernatural…*addressing fan’s question* She said her friends were worried about it. So, kook, I’m not some guy who hasn’t been a part of Supernatural for 15 years, I’m not some random dude ‘I’ve got an idea.’ This story means a lot to me. There’s also an entertainment value that is especially important to me and Robbie has been invovled. Again, we’ll service what has been established, but we want to get creative in the way that we get there.” [x]
This banter from the JenMish panel wasn't prompted specifically by the question, which was positive and generally about upcoming projects they're excited about. Naturally, Jensen would talk about The Winchesters.
The tone if you watch the video is obviously joking and having some fun with it and IMO it's having fun with both the hate and the defensive side of things, it's about fandom drama and online reactions to media in general, but also I think with a grain of genuine salt given what I pointed out above about how intense the twitter vitriol has been.
Jensen: I hope you all enjoy it and if you don’t like then that’s fine, feel free to hate watch every episode
Misha: They are tough shoes to fill and all these people loved Supernatural and if they don’t love the prequel they’re going to come and burn your house down
Jensen: If they don’t love the prequel then they really weren’t fans in the first place
Misha: I like your style. That’s right. Shame on them.
Jensen: That’s right
Misha: Shame on them for not having the vision
Jensen: Exactly! How could they not accept
Misha: Shame on them. It makes me sick.
Jensen: It really is. Just bullies. Just bullies
Misha: And anyone who says anything negative about your prequel is a bully
Jensen: Cancelled! Cancelled!
[x]
The subset of J-red stans on twitter who have cancelled Jensen over prequelgate, who have been the loudest ones being vitriolic against the prequel, lost it over this exchange. Whatever the tone or intention is, they took it as earnest. Guess what they have also been habitually the loudest gatekeepers in the fandom, claiming to be the only real fans, as a way to put down everyone else in the fandom. Who used and weaponized Jensen for years in the name of "respect Jensen" in a grudgewanking anti-shipping war. Some of them were even saying this week, no real fan wants this prequel, no spn fans want this prequel, no true fan should support this prequel.
Meanwhile, for many of us with a holistic love of the show, and who support Dean and Jensen, and who want to see the spn universe expand, and who want to see the spn universe become more inclusive and diverse with new shows, this prequel represents a lot of hope. Our support is from love not just of Dean and Jensen but Supernatural.
Jensen wasn't insulting people who aren't into this particular prequel. He was putting his specific antis in their place, and his "gatekeeping" was, ironically enough, aimed at those who weaponize gatekeeping to a vitriolic degree.
He's not having it. Everyone's welcome, if you hate it please hate watch anyway to help support, he hopes most fans will love it, he hopes spn fans will love it, he's respectful of the mothership content they're using as "tentpoles," Jensen Ackles loves this show as a whole.
The least people could do is not constantly attack him and his project on twitter. Again I'm not making this post for them and I'm not making this post to lecture at fandom how to behave. This post is for the prequel fans to help identify what's going on here and hopefully offer some comfort for those upset by all the hatred.
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Not shipping related because I'd like to know why there are people that maintain Mobius was a villain. A VILLAIN??
lol so this one actually kind of get- that's not to say I agree, but if you think about the narrative solely from a perspective of 'only things that I deem are good and enjoyable can happen to my fave', as these people are, then yeah it's not difficult to get that reading particularly if you made your judgements in ep 1 and then refused to see any nuance to Mobius beyond that. It's a very common approach to media in fandom, given that so many people (esp in comic book fandoms) have long term favorite characters (like Loki) that they've latched/projected on to. A villain, by its most basic definition, is any character that works against the main hero/protagonist's motivations.
So yeah, if you're approaching Mobius with the moral barometer of whether or not he gives Loki in particular everything you deem Loki deserves, then yes. It makes sense you come up with that interpretation. It makes sense you'd ignore that Mobius is a nuanced, morally complicated character the same as Loki and that's part of what makes them get along so well. It makes sense that you'd ignore that Loki kind of latches on to Mobius for this very reason, because he's neither 'all good or all bad' as indeed Loki says.
While I tend to defend Mobius under the explanation that his working for the TVA was an act of kidnap and brainwash and I don't know how fair it is to condemn him for something he's technically never consenting to, I understand the arguments that he still, brainwashed or no, contributed to the pruning of innocent variants and took pride in it. I understand that his interrogation of Loki puts them both in a kind of horrifying position if thought about critically.
But hasn't Loki done some pretty fucked up shit too? While technically possessed? No one making these arguments wants to condemn him for those things, but they definitely want Mobius to be held accountable. Maybe it's because they feel Loki has already been punished enough, and I think that on its own is valid. I mean, all of this is valid, take away what you will.
For me though, the moral ambiguity of both characters is part of what makes their dynamic so compelling. Had they been given the proper time and arc as a duo to explore these moral complexities better, I think more people would've seen it doesn't have to be a matter of cut-and-dried 'this character is good' and 'this character is evil'. Moral ambiguity and complexity could have easily been one of the themes of the show, had they carried through with things set up in ep 1 and 2 and if they show just generally hadn't sucked ass.
I also get that this is kind of hard to grasp, given that we're talking about superhero media, the pinnacle of heroes vs villains, good vs evil, and that tends to be the basis from which all MCU discourse must come; 'who is the good guy that I like that I think deserves all the things' and 'who is the bad guy who I DISLIKE and must DIE', not really aided by the fact that tumblr has long been the place where we have to divide everyone, fictional or no, into groups of oppressor and oppressed. And sometimes it is that clear cut, but sometimes it isn't.
As with so many things the show could have done, there was potential here to explore more of a morally nuanced take on comic book/superhero media and, by extension, the complexity and imperfections of being human. We might have more clearly seen Mobius come to grips with who he was at the TVA and what that means for his own self-perception now that he knows he was complicit in something that maybe wasn't good or fair (or was fascist as some people say, which fair) and that would have been an opportunity for him and Loki to grow closer; because Loki has been given more time and opportunity to see the moral complexity of people, that no one is entirely good or entirely bad, whereas Mobius had been doing his job at the TVA without any doubt or question as to whether it was right and good. That's stuff that could have been sussed out better. Think themes and discussions they have in The Good Place and how the characters in that show are morally ambiguous as they grow and learn more about the fluidity of morals and ethics, what it means to be a 'good' person- or as much as one can be.
This got long, but it kind of ties into the feelings I have about where fandom discourse is currently at as a whole. There's still this pervasive belief that any characters worth being liked/depicted as sympathetic must also be justified in everything they do and must subscribe to real life morals and ethics regardless of who they are, where they are, and what makes sense for their personal motivations to be. It's just kind of a...pit of discussion that I wish we could move on from because it stilts so much.
So, idk, one can see Mobius as a villain if that's the takeaway they must have, but it's the very reasons they consider him one that makes him and Loki such a powerful combination. Also, it doesn't seem Loki is on the same page of 'Mobius is a villain', he actually adores and trusts him implicitly even at the end of the whole garbage fire story and at that point there's really no reason for him not to. So.
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in reference to this post
this might sound spicy and im only half awake so I hope it makes sense and i dont know if im wrong here as in I dont know if the D*ffers or whoever have said anything to make people think this or if this is just the read people are getting from the show, like idk what the d*ffers have said about billy in particular but in the case that its the read from the show I kinda didnt get the same read.
i mean with eddie i didnt see him dying bc he had to like idk act like a hero cos hed always been a coward i think that was the choice he made in particular for himself because thats how he personally felt and i think he mainly did it for dustin tbqh. imo, he was leading the demobats away from dustin but as for what point eddies death had in the narrative I think it was less that he didnt deserve a good life and more eddies death was a tragic commentary on what a god damn backwards 80s shit hole hawkins is. (like i know no one saw his sacrifice or anything but its real Small town America to be so assured that a disadvantaged teenager was the literal devil based on being kinda alternative and liking a fantasy tabletop rpg)
For billy i dont see how it would be better if he made a youtuber apology for his problematic behavior before he died. I kinda think thats kinda chronically online and i think the way he did die was powerful enough in showing us he was never a monster? not to mention what we learned about him along the way like i said idk what the d*ffers have said but ??? Even if the d*ffers thought he was a dick (correct) that doesn't necessarily mean they thought he was a monster incapable of redemption. (Unless they literally said that which would be so weird imo?)
& ive seen the fandom discoursing a lot of themes in the show and saying that they invalidate trauma survivors & abuse victims etc & i can understand that & I dont intend to invalidate anyone but I dont think its intentional because I am those things & I personally enjoy the shows handling of those things?
maybe its just cos i find a weird sense of catharsis in unhappy endings & tragedy which is one of the reasons im drawn to the horror genre and I think a major problem with the ST fandom is that a lot of the fandom is made up of people who dont actually like horror and they want / expect a happy ending, particularly for the protags.
And thats something I'm nearly positive theyre not gonna get bc im sure thats not the point of the show lol. like i think it would be weird if this did all have a happy ending bc ST is making so much very real direct 1 to 1 commentary on real life oppression & injustice & we all know damn well none of the issues with society st covers have magically disappeared. They certainly didnt go away bc a couple of super powered psychics had it out with each other across dimensions in 1986.
also as for BRENNER yeah i have seen people think his death was sad and was intended to redeem him and once again nope I saw it the complete opposite way. I think thats some kind of projection and i think this fandom is funny for being more willing to see brenner as sympathetic and redeemable than henry, his most damaged victim, but anyway imo brenner died in the dirt gaslighting eleven. he tried to save her quite clearly at that point for his own means, not because he actually cared about her (legit the entire ep of papa was spent showing us brenner was/is the "real" monster) and when he got popped he knew he was dying and still refused to let himself think he had lost so he tried to manipulate el into thinking he was doing it for her and he cared about her etc.
that was his last ditch dying attempt to take control and power over her. to "convince" her of his goodness. and it fucking failed so beautifully. that was the whole point of that scene. it wasnt about Brenner actually being a good guy. It certainly wasn't meant to be his redemption. its why eleven doesnt give him that satisfaction in death of thinking he pulled the wool over her eyes again in the end. she rejects him. flat out rejects his ass and he dies knowing he lost it all! its one of my fav scenes.
#i didnt wanna rb it to be annoying and argue or anything!!#bc i dont intend to like actually argue i just have a need to say my thoughts on it lol#but what i just said about a lot of ppl in the st fandom not being horror fans? yeah.#im convinced MOST of the fandom are not horror fans and tbh theyre in the wrong place <3
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people who are claiming to be sabrina fans in my ask saying that my page is this and that. and this and that. how is my page affecting anyone?
if you are a sabrina fan answer these questions:
is whatagirlwants tumblr account affecting sabrina’s career? (no)
is whatagirlwants tumblr account starting discourse of her posts outside this platform that is negatively affecting sabrina? (no)
is whatagirlwants just stating her opinions and how she sees things and none of it is negatively affecting sabrina in any way? (yes)
so why are you in my inbox?
all i do is talk about song lyrics and maybe timeline of her relationships if yall ask about it. might have shaded J here and there but i always say like nothing personal i dont know this man or really give a fuck.
so J fans coming in here trying to insult me because u dont agree with me. u dont see me going your personal spaces and insulting u. cause i dont. but just know… none of that is gonna change that Sabrina is successful and u just hate to see it. shes always been successful without him before him and after him. and i think his fans J fans are jealous. because he didnt get his white boy mayer mendes moment and is actually stuck in his career. hopefully things work out for him though. i might delete this maybe ya’ll just pissed me off for now.
ya’ll can pretend u guys never liked her at some point and only changed opinions cause u follow him and his opinion which fan culture i get. but hating her for basically saying in her music “hey i kinda feel like i was used by this person who maybe was only with me cause i was a great opportunity at that time” is fucking insane cause any blind person knows she was an opportunity for him and she has the right to feel and voice that in her music. and he’s proving her right.
he barely had 1 million followers at the time. she had 20+million followers, was getting 3 million likes an average for each post. had movie projects lined out during the pandemic and things to look forward to. what was he doing? asked her to help him with his ep and to he a part of it so he can GAIN something from her. that was the foundation of their relationship unfortunately. and it took her a whole year to see it.
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Genuine question to your last humorous post (it got a chuckle out of me so thank you for that) would you say Danny ITA here? Or Sidney for that matter? I keep seeing mixed reviews on the both of them in the phandom per this episode and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it!
ok bet
i think danny is 14
heres the thing right is yeah blahblah abuse or whatever bad but a) middle school bullying is always comedically exaggerated for kids media, esp and DP and b) 14 year olds are just like that. like literally the capacity for empathy is not fully developed at that age. this is also recognized in-universe; Vlad goes iirc "of course you wouldnt understand, you're what, fourteen?" and danny says "hello misplaced aggression"-- so applying the "children are shitheads" logic isnt just something I can say from the armchair, but within the show itself. basically i think he gets a bit of a free pass on being an asshole because of the Circumstances that are about being a teenager
2. the argument that "fighting your bullies makes you as bad as them" IS a shit argument, but theres Context DP has
yeah yeah fight back against ur oppressors or w/e (please god remember dp is a show about a nerdy elmersona who thinks hes a better person than he is, and NOT a succint and valuable critique on class relations in contemporary america.) but like. buddy. he can walk thru walls disappear and fly. dudes bringing a gun to a fork fight. if we're reading into deep metaphorical language here then literally whatever danny is doing is 100000% worse than dash. dash does physical assault (bad). DANNY does physical assault (bad), reputational ruining (bad), mental assault/gaslighting (bad), and psychological trauma (very bad. we see in that same episode that getting possessed is absolutely horrifying and dannys just doing it for a Bit. a Joke. a Gag if you will). what I'm saying is if you want to approach this issue as a microcosm of a larger conceptual element, you cannot walk away from here saying danny is NTA. luckily for me i dont give a shit about this point like, at all, and in fact am mostly tired of hearing it
3. fuck sidney
maybe this is rewrite bleed (it is <3 I made him a redditor) but sidney is just so much of a nothing, stupid character it hurts. dude haunted the locker NEXT TO DASH for at least a school year and his first conclusion was that dash was some POOR VICTIM OF BULLYING? if we gloss over that then its just like. what does he do here. 1) terrifies children internationally with that possession sequence 2) traps danny in 50s hell 3) is the episodic antagonist 4) has an annoying voice 5) gets. redeemed? for some ungodly reason? sidney in this ep is a metaphor/stand-in for danny's recompense and Not Bullying, but he's. EVIL? but we're supposed to be chill with it? except when we're not. and SIDNEY bullying bullies is (goood? funny???) except when the narrative needs him to be the Good Person he totally drops that entire personality and is now bffs with dash? i do not understand what the fuck he means within the larger narrative, like at all. as such im just like. fuck this kid fuck this episode in its entirety and it makes me want to disagree with the episode premise just bc its poorly written
4. dash did nothing wrong
dash did nothing wrong. i have a brand to keep
but for real tho like, the conceit of this episode is that bullying is normal within the world yeah? like its not GREAT but danny and sidney aren't demonized for it (the conflict is about like. learning to be liked as a person? OKAY fucking ripoff side tangent here but SIDNEY gets to be bffs with DASH and ALSO his 50s bully -- if Sidney is a character parallel to danny WHY DOESNT DANNY BEFRIEND DASH BY THE END OF THE EPISODE? GOD? IT MAKES NO SENSE) and dash's is just like. slightly annoying slapstick. dash's character is also built on super dumb hypermasculine traits like hazing, ie, a bonding experience (even though danny might not see it as such). instead of like. talking w dash. or using his powers to impress him. (you know. what sidney does. right here). danny just goes "die a thousand deaths" and slams his head into a locker. like. bro. Unproductive. PLUS when sidney DOES stop being a shithead to dash (again i will never understand why. hes a fucking trainwreck of a character), dash IMMEDIATELY does a 180? like hazing continues but after the football scene dash is genuinely impressed. bro if you just get on dash's playing field he will literally do nothing. according to this episode anyway
summary: this episode fucking sucks
basically i think this episode is horribly plotted + written and the overall message/theme gets very muddled very quickly because its more of a "what would happen, realistically??" story than a "this is a story with a message that the universe will bend to accommodate" and thats just like. NOT good for this kind of "is he an asshole" discussion. in a realistic setting id say yeah danny ITA because. bro. you could do LITERALLY anything else. but not in a condemnatory way. like if danny was telling this story at college and making fun of himself when he was 14 id be like omggg daniel you did NOT. shut up thats so funny.
anyway if im extrapolating whatever message this ep was trying to push, and debating it with the rest of danny phantom tumblr as if it were a cohesive plot worth arguing about, id say ESH. sam is supposed to be a "rebel" yet she hates beating up dash. sidney is supposed to fight for the "little guys" yet he doesnt fucking know dash is the bully. danny psychologically tortures people which i think is probably a war crime.
except dash tho. i have a brand to keep and that means that everything he did in this episode was fine actually. he was having a bad day <3 he beats the shit out of dweebs to cope <3
#wahoo#this is nothing gamers. this episode is bad and im tired of pretending its worth talking about#all discourse on this ep is just people projecting what they THINK it was saying/what they WANTED it to say#in actuality. its nothing#danny phantom#ask#long post#thanks for the ask!!! i love typing sentences and words
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LT2 masterpost
If it was up to me, we would get an autumn or winter EP. Since it’s not up to me at all, here, enjoy this post with everything we know so far of LT2, which is to say, not much at all. Everything here is hypothetical. I’ll be updating every time I see something relevant. A little disclaimer that while this is a masterpost (kinda), it could be read as discourse (duh, it’s also a theory), AND it’s also by me, and you shouldn’t expect me to be serious at this point.
Due to me restraining myself, there’s no reference to any of the times he’s mentioned his guitar skills and him improving but I hope you know I cried every single time.
I’m also linking my old pinned here. It was written before AFHF and around the free merch thing that didn’t lead to much, but I still think I made some good points.
Possible tracks:
Copy of a Copy of a Copy
Change
Faith in the future??
369??
Possible names:
369
Faith in the future
When is the album coming out?
Your guess is as good as mine
Friday 28th of January 2022. Almost two years after Walls. It’s a Friday. It’s a 28th. What else can I say?
Here you can find @want-to-be-loved timelines for every month.
Here you can find @berlinini’s timeline of what Louis has been up to this year (2021).
The rest is under the cut. And here you can find a PDF version where Tumblr can't tell me how many pictures I can add.
2020
He said back on May 2th 2020 he wasn’t writing anything new yet.
(x)(x)(x)
Interestingly enough, he’s said many times after that that the album’s not ready cause he has no new experiences to drawn from. I won’t call him out because he does it himself.
May 4th. He liked a tweet from DMA’s Johnny Took saying they had to go write together again. Louis has been credited as an influence for them and (kind of) participated in their previous record, so I’m assuming he meant for their music and not his, but you never know.
Nothing(literally nothing??? how did we survive) until 11th of July. We all know what happened that day. We all celebrated it. Nonetheless, that’s not what I’m talking about here.
(x) So, by the beginning of July 2020 he was working on concepts and ideas for the new album. That was fifteen months ago. I know perfection takes time but…
Brief summary of important things that happened from then until the next mention of new music:
Louis left Syco!!!! 10 days later he rescheduled the tour for the first time. He followed Matt Vines on Twitter, probably so we could publicly shame him into doing something. Also, the 10thanniversary. He followed more people I wish he hadn’t.
Then more nothing until September. Not even a single tweet. The first merch drop was on the 28th of August but he just RT’ed the tweet. He first mentioned Free my Meal on the 25th of September. Then on October 1st Walls hit #1 on a lot of countries and Louis was incredibly happy and excited about it ^^
And then, that same day, October 1st, 2020, he dropped this bomb:
(x)
He also said it was too soon to be sharing new lyrics with us (x)
And, obviously, this tweet which is actually what made me start this whole post. I would hope you know mate.
(x)
He also told us he was cooking "banger after banger" and that he was incorporating more social themes into his music (x)(x) (I believe any social issue is a political issue but that’s not the point rn).
COPY OF A COPY OF A COPY?!?!
These next paragraphs are brought to you by my mind not remembering things and me not having any links. I’m assuming COACOAC came from those writing sessions that supposedly happened in October. Or in LA but I have no idea if he actually was in LA at any point other than a Daily Mail article putting him there on December which would have been too late, but I do remember that someone said he was in the studio in LA last autumn???? A rumor. Maybe. IDK. Did I mention already all of this is very hypothetical?? Well, this is it. I can’t even remember if this was October or November or what. So, take this with a grain of salt.
I’m also… taking the liberty to assume, if you must, that Copy wasn’t meant to be a Walls reject because it sounds more mature and darker and it has a vastly different tone that Walls songs. I know he’s said that song probably isn’t getting into the album, but I want to have faith (in the future) that I’m getting a studio version. (But also, Louis, if you’re reading this, first of all GET OUT OF MY BLOG second of all, please don’t ever feel pressured again to add a song to the album because we have already heard it before. It’s your art and it should always be under your own terms).
So yeah, I believe that Copy is either one of those four songs (then imagine the other three??!!) or was written around the 1st of October date.
---End of the Intermission---
Then not much important (other than sharing more about Marcus Rashford fight against food poverty and the 2nd merch drop) until he announced the livestream on the 24th of November. (x)
It wasn’t until a few days before the livestream date we even thought again about new music (jk, I know we’re always thinking about new Louis’ music). So, December 9th/10th, 2020. Nine months ago. We got our first taste of new music!
He made sure we knew Copy of a Copy of a Copy isn't a cover! (x) (x)
(x)
Ok, so that’s it for 2020. (I feel like I’m missing something from September 17th because tweet was deleted but maybe he was still talking about cucumbers. We might never know. Unless I understand how Tumblr tags work). Expected, cause Walls was released in 2020. We needed to let it sit for a while.
2021
Another Summary: Louis third tweet of the year was telling the UK government off. So was the fifth. What a good beginning. On the 26th of January, he said he prefers pancakes over waffles. I hope he meant pancakes other than his own. More importantly, he tweeted the infamous “you lot read into things too much”. Don’t get me started, Tomlinson. Don’t. Then the 31st came around and Walls was one. He tweeted this. How wise. And Project Defenceless happened!!
15th of February!! Who cares about Valentine Day when the next day we got this? ♥
(x)
(x)
So…AN EP?? AN EP?? PLEASE RELEASE AN EP.
“I’m sure I will have something out this year but unlikely that will be the album”. Unlikely but not impossible. Also. A single would be good. This is the second time he mentions releasing something in 2021 and he sounds surer about it than the first time around.
He also said that he isn’t sure we will get a studio version of Copy. And that the best bridges from Walls to LT2 are Walls, OTB, KMM and Copy. Can’t wait!
Then we jump to March 6th when he announced he was going to create his own management company. “Sometimes action is needed first to encourage the motivation and belief”. As we can tell he was already manifesting some stuff which will lead us to the numerology stuff/Tesla… kidding. Or not. We might never know.
On the 22nd of March he answered some questions:
He told us music was still his main focus ♥ mwha. (x) I included this tweet to guilt-trip him into giving us music in case he’s reading this even after I told him to leave. ILY.
(x) I’d love to get a visual EP this autumn. Just saying. It sounds like a lovely concept.
(x)
…next (I will get into it, I promise. I’m just mad).
On the 25th he left for Mexico until April 10th. You could assume it was just for the documentary where we got ten seconds of footage or admit the obvious: LT2 its a Mexican baby!!
On the 26th (so, not so far apart from that first 369) we got the first Faith in the Future mention: (x)
Back then we were innocent people who had no idea what was coming upon us. We still have no idea because what the fuck does he mean with these. Please explain. I have one braincell and I don’t use it enough for this. I’m linking some theories.
On the 30th of March he confirmed he was already working on the documentary. So AFHF was already on the works. Will it take this long for us to get the Veeps numbers? We also got this tweet: "Got a decent chorus idea down" (x).
Same person that got the “something out this year” exclusive. If you know something share with the class. Also. Is this Change? I feel like this could be Change but I also assume he wrote Change after hanging out with his friends or being in Doncaster. But who knows.
(x) And the second mention to 369.
(x) 15th of April. The second "Faith in the future".
On the 19th of April he announced that he had something BIG for us later on the year which turned out to be the Away From Home Festival ♥♥ (x) I love him so much.
Then on the 28th he announced the 369 merch drop (which it’s probably the Walls drop? Except that the TOU and KMM ones were “drop 1 and drop 2” and this was drop 369 which, again, makes no sense) but we still don’t know what 369 means.
Into May’ 21 we go.
He rescheduled tour again. And dropped another bomb (x).
He announced he has signed with BMG as an independent artist by RTing this tweet on May 10th. The article also says that he’s already working on writing and recording LT2. The timing… we don’t know. What this deal involves… we don’t know either. Bear with me here because I have a lot to say about this.
I think the deal is only a distribution one, but that BMG are interested in Louis and what he (us) could bring to the table. They were either present at the festival or watching it, but officially they had no involvement at all with it (everything is credited either to Louis own company, 78 Productions, or Charlie Lightening’s company). That’s the case for both giveaways too; the vinyl one and the tickets for the festival.
I think it would be an unbelievably bad move not to test the waters with BMG now or soon-ish. At least a single, to see how it performs. Due to the circumstances, it’s obvious there’re certain limitations on place but I want to see how they push it, whether the radio play exist this time around and if the song is playlisted and promoted and all that… I would also love to know, since it says he signed with BMG UK, but it also states it’s a global deal, how things are going to go on the US and other countries.
Yes, yes. I know those are all questions and no answers. But I know the same as you, sadly. If any of you know more than you’re letting on… again, share with the class.
Where was I? Yes, on the 25th of May Louis had a great day writing (x). Since the first time he had mentioned he was officially writing to this date there’s almost eight months. And I believe he was writing before October’ 20.
He followed Robert Harvey that day and, on the 28th of May (why is it always the 28th???) he was spotted at the studio for the first time.
June was an interesting month for the fandom ♥. Lots of LHL content which I will love and cherish for the rest of times. On June 4th, June 9th, and June 10th he was spotted at the studio, but I believe he was there more days.
(x)
This was posted on June 6th and captioned Studio. Charlie also shared it with “Mega tunes being put down, can’t wait for this @louist91 #louistomlinson #LT2” as the caption. This gives me 2019 (Elton-Joint) vibes. I like it. Feels like we’re getting closer to something.
He added the Milano date on the 9th too which I’m mentioning because I’m going alone. Anyone wanna go with me please? I’m nice and I never eat anything before a concert so you can have my food. On other news. It didn’t come home.
During July he was at the studio at least three days too. Probably more. Feels like more with all the fan pictures we got. Or was that June? Anyway, July 1st and 9th we got some videos from Robert Harvey and wearesuperhi, which is who Louis has been working with the most, that we know of. I don’t know for sure they’re from that day. And on July 5th we got an article and lots of pictures of Louis looking really good outside the studio.
On the 12th of July the first fans started getting the free, 369 bucket hat and print. We still don’t know what the purpose was other than to thanks fans. Maybe that was it. I want answers and I still think it relates to a future project (see theories above), but it could also just be a bridge with the Walls breaking.
He didn’t tweet about anything interesting for a while, mostly because he lost his phone (he either throwed it in the air or smashed it who knows). Then on the 29th of July he announced the festival!
I’m glossing over it because there’s already been a lot of talk about it (rightfully) and while it was a wonderful thing, it doesn’t have much to do with LT2.
Let’s talk Change!
On August 3rd he tweeted this about the setlist.
(x)
And this (x) on the 28th! I can’t stand him.
We didn’t get it, obviously. Because who was going to get that. But we read too much into things. Alright.
On the 16thof August Dave Gibson shared this post tagged #LT2 with the eyes emojis 👀👀👀. I believe this has to do both with Change but also with whatever else came out of that Mexico trip.
(x) Last relevant tweet related to LT2 is this one.
So, on the 30th of August we got Change and we cried, and we know that Change is going in the new album. He said it. With those exact words. He also said he was “getting a feeling for it”. This has to meant he already has a general idea of the vibe of the new album and what’s going in it!!!!!! (Right? RIGHT?).
Anyway, let’s go back a few weeks because some other things happened on August. He was at the studio a few more times. Or it was suggested that he was there. On the 17th and the 18th. (Why was it so time-pressing to be at the studio instead of rehearsing for the festival? There was no studio at all on the documentary. Which makes sense, but again, then why?).
On the day of the festival we got another mention of Faith in The Future that made me feel part of a cult ngl. The words were flashing on the screen for less than a second. Okay.
And then he tweeted those words again after watching the livestream/documentary on the 4th of September (x). This is what makes me suspect it's either the name of the album or of the single.
On the same day, we got some interesting quotes about LT2 on the documentary.
“Soon I’ll have to think about me second album, which in my head I’ll get the tour out of the way and then I’ll address that. So, I hadn’t really given it much thought, to be honest”.
“When every day is the same is hard to feel creative and it’s hard to have any kind of proper inspiration”.
“As season started to come back, I started writing again and it was great and some of these songs turned out alright”.
And I think this is it. I might be overlooking some important details but that’s what we know and what we don’t know.
So. Conclusions. That’s what you missed on Glee. I do believe the album is, if not mostly done, partially there. And yes, this post is pointless and never-ending but it’s all in here if you need to tell Louis “Hey, you said this, mate”.
#LT2#Louis Tomlinson#Faith in The future#369#Louis#LT#new music#idk what this is#but it's long#pinned
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alright i've seen arcane twice through now, here are my opinion patch notes:
jayce is hilarious i can't believe fandom hates him so much lmao... arcane boldly asks, what if steve rogers shot a child, and i think that's very fun and sexy of them
fr though i do think jayce is one of the more interesting characters precisely because he's -- well partly because i feel like he realized he's bisexual two days ago and is making it everyone's problem, which is already great. but also because watching the square-jawed hero complex guy make a series of terrible decisions and go mad with power is a satisfying thing to witness. the story seems very aware jayce is doing a bunch of fucked up stuff, and i appreciate that. unhinged bisexual rights
i was also more into the political drama once i was following it closer. i think it's handled with relative subtlety most of the time and i like that! i hope it stays that way in s2, please god. also how tf does the council work, are people appointed? i guess? based on status/wealth? it certainly doesn't seem to be a democracy.
also i love ambessa. can't wait to see more of her.
i feel like mel's writing is... kind of underbaked. her words and her actions don't always correspond (eg "i've never been able to give back!" says the single richest person in a city with severe wealth disparity who has been in political power for a decade). i don't say any of this to drag mel, because i'm very interested in who i think she is/could be, but i find it hard to decipher if this is nuanced writing or just the story not really knowing what it's doing with her -- i guess we'll see what s2 does. i'm still pretty confident she'll survive the finale, not so much because i think she'll survive the entire show (doubtful imo) but because i think if they're going to kill mel she'll get a solo death episode and the finale/fallout of jinx's bomb has too much else going on. fingers crossed anyway, lol, i think it'd be shitty if she's just dead now before they did much with her
i understand like 25% more of what happened with viktor and happy fun ball but ... still not a lot. lmao. i don't mind them keeping it vague i guess but i hope future sequences are less outright confusing to me. why did it eat sky? why did it change his hand? was that on purpose? we never saw him having issues with his hand, right? who knows.
still love that dinner scene with jinx/silco/vi. as i was watching with @firstofoctober i was saying how great it is that everyone in the scene is saying stuff they genuinely believe even if that stuff isn't factually true. i know there's Discourse over how genuine silco was being but i really do think all evidence points to him meaning it/believing what he's saying, even if *we* know vi isn't going to betray powder, etc. likewise vi obviously means it when she says she loves jinx and they're still sisters etc... but i really don't think she has a proper grasp of who jinx is now, she's projecting baby powder and expecting she can flip a switch. it's good and sad and i like it a lot.
coming out less flatteringly on rewatch:
ep 1 is so boringgggggggggg these are so many characters and i only have to care about two of them
caitvi moves at breakneck pace lol. slow down ladies it's been 72 hours tops
heimerdinger is just terrible on rewatch imo lmao he literally never does anything to help anyone or anything. i'm pretty sure jayce only deposed him for being mean to viktor, but he was still right. i GET that his whole thing is being immortal and blah blah but like what if: some guy with no perspective on human existence wasn't ruling a city full of mostly-humans. depose him again jayce.
and my least popular opinion: caitlyn i just... i tried man. i dunno. i mean she's nice and stuff... katie leung is funny sometimes. i just feel like she is so uncomplicated compared to literally every other character, with the least compelling arc. and i think the story treats her with real kiddie gloves too, which i find grating. everyone else fucks up and makes mistakes and is punished narratively for it, but caitlyn is always right bc she is a nice good cop. okay. whatever.
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After the reactions of ep12 I kind of feel like there’s a little of a double standard in the fandom. Not defending anything Wat did but Mil’s character has been openly flirting and making it known that he’s trying to win tine over and I’ve never seen tine ever stand up for his own relationship and it’s really strange to me how no one has a problem with that. Like you’re in a committed relationship why are you letting your bf’s borderline bully entertain the idea of snatching you from him?
hiii anon!!!
i’ve stewed over this. 2 reasons.
1. tine’s lack of self esteem. i think by now, everyone knows that tine is someone who can’t say no. he doesn’t know how to say no. he didn’t when it came to green, nor with mil. and mil’s older than him. that makes the prospect of saying no even more daunting. coupled with the fact that tine probably doesn’t even know why mil is so into him? not out of obliviousness, but purely bc he just doesn’t understand what mil sees in him. though he knows mil gets on sarawat’s nerves, but he doesn’t get why he himself is in the centre of their grudge, bc he himself doesn’t see himself as worthy enough to be in that position of being the centre of let alone one, but two people’s attractions. but tine is uncomfortable around mil and that comes from a small place of fear. that fear makes him afraid of being unable to say no.
but i do honestly think if push came to shove, tine would say no, just like how he was ready to protect green from dim. but that ended up looking like a joke bc he was using his lamp against him. ... and now this leads to my second reason.
2. even without saying it much, the show has written tine as “the predominantly designated bottom” in sarawat and tine’s relationship. like it or not, its the truth. bc its just something bl shows have. they have it. it sells, its what the targeted audience will straight away pick up on and assign roles on. now, the show’s been subtle in some places and not so in others in going about this. we don’t see it in every ep, where the blatant use of top and bottom occurs. tine himself says in ep 1 he’s okay to top or bottom. but tine is referred to as “the wife” in ep 8 (i think??) by sarawat. and though that was quite clearly said, in other ways, the shows been very subtle in showing “tine bottoms”. one of those ways is .... this. that tine waits on for sarawat to take action and speak up for him. thats a .. and please excuse my next words ... Bottom Trait To Have. and the targeted audience? love that. soak up on that. they project that “oh tine is a helpless wifey his hubby sarawat will come and save him!!!!!” trope on that, bc the show hasn’t actually, explicitly, done so in any other way i.e. have them be in bed to show that tine bottoms and wat tops (though who knows! they could be switching! bc wat did say he’d let tine punish him in bed!). tine’s shown to feed into that “bottom” role through various other ways, i.e. being defenceless.
and the thing is, bright and win in their interviews ALWAYS try to reiterate how the show is a love story between 2 men. ya know, they wanna push that its between 2 men. but .... ultimately, like all bl shows, the show, like it or not, whether they want to or not, will unfortunately always fall into the trap of top/bottom discourse due to the “fans”.
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Anti-Videl rants?
Have you noticed any anti-Videlisms among any comments you’ve read? I’m not talking about the ‘Videl is a pushover in SUPER’ criticisms. These comments are negative to Videl in general, Buu Arc and SUPER. Among the complaints are:
-Videl was a horrible bitch for blackmailing Gohan into joining the Budokai and teaching her to fly. Okay, an hour later Gohan would have joined the Budokai anyway. Also, Gohan probably realized it would be for Videl’s welfare if she learned how to fly. He was worried about her crimefighting (until he found out how stronger she was then her dad). It’s amazing how some people really put her down for this action, feeling her nicer characterization doesn’t negate what she did to Gohan. One person thought the Spopovitch assault was karma justice (?!?).
-Videl is the reason Gohan got weak. This is based on the 'Chichi forced Gohan to study and not be a fighter like “he always wanted”’ BS. Gohan didn’t want to be a fighter like his dad. Simple as that. Yes, this disinterest would pay him back in RoF, but it was Gohan’s choice. Not Chichi’s. Not Videl’s. As for Videl suddenly getting some anti-fighting stance. Look at the evidence: she is okay about Pan being a fighter. She likes seeing Gohan as the Great SaiyaMan, convincing him to continue being the stuntman for the movie. Finally, she’s the one who persuades Gohan to compete in the Zeno Exposition. Most of all, it was to protect Videl and Pan that Gohan embraced training again. I wonder if the fandom got the contrary from Gohan’s decision to turn down the U6 Tourney because of Videl. But it appears it was more like Gohan wanting to be a better provider to his family than any 'Videl will chew me up if I refuse!’ apprehension.
-Videl should have been a better wife to Gohan. Exactly how? I’ve noticed one commenter pick on Videl for what she didn’t do. He feels she’s guilty for causing Gohan’s cooking disaster in ep. 15, evidently not helping him at all. Um, Gohan put his foot down about Videl taking it easy, and it appears she was asleep when the trouble started (else she would have answered her father’s phonecall). If Videl made any advice, I guess Gohan would have turned it down with a 'It’s okay, I can handle it.’ He also felt she should have told Gohan about 'not dropping his guard’. Um, I would leave that to Piccolo rather than Videl, Okay?
Geez.
...
Huh. I'll admit I don't actually get into much discourse involving Videl, it just doesn't come up on my social media timelines or searches and most people I see talking about her are usually positive about her character outside of post Buu discussion.
I can believe there's some idiots that would say stuff like this, though. The first example sounds like a standard case of sensitive man-children on the internet viewing any example of a girl or woman in a story having any degree of "an attitude" or just not being really submissive or a super supportive nice girl from the start as though they're Naru from the Love Hina anime (Or basically any poorly written Tsundere character inspired by her, more like it), because a lot of people are weirdly sensitive and kind of stupid like that.
The second example is more blatant projection. People not liking the way Gohan is characterized not matching the idea of what kind of character they'd like him to be and they somehow fooled themselves into thinking he'd become. So they look for anything else in the story they can blame for "perverting" his character and derailing the"natural" direction he "should" have went in.
And the last part is just ridiculous. Videl is a perfectly good and supportive wife to Gohan. These people are way over thinking a harmless moment of cartoon comedy that can just be summed up as "Gohan's a dork and sometimes clumsy". Seriously, this one actually makes me laugh that you found someone that apparently seriously made such a complaint.
Honestly, Gohan discourse really is some of the most stupid and outlandish parts of talking about Dragon Ball on the internet. And I feel sorry for Videl if she's getting dragged into the stupider parts of those discussions now.
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this is probably not gonna be a popular post but uuuhhh saying that eminem & tarantino are actively and harmfully antiblack racist is kinda accusing people like dr dre, rza, snoop dogg, nate dogg, xzibit, royce 59, 50 cent, lil wayne, rihanna, kendrick lamar, beyonce, jamie foxx, pam grier, chris tucker, and samuel L jackson of being race traitors since they're colluding with allegedly racist content creators just to turn a profit.
of course all white people are racist, we can't escape our benefits of white privilege and the contributions we make to it through our daily microaggressions, and any and all media we create is going to reflect that in some way or another- which I have to mention or else the 12-year-olds will froth at the mouths, and now that I have mentioned the 13-year-olds will dog me for pandering for woke points so welcome to tumblr where everyone's opinion is wrong enough to warrant being suicide baited- and I'm not trying to dispute that aspect. but there is a significant and marginal difference between subconscious systemic racism, and the KKK.
so yeah technically saying that eminem and tarantino are racist is, well, correct, /I guess/. same way as chris evans or wil wheaton or dolly parton or kris jenner or mark hamill or me. every white person or white celebrity is equally racist. this is a correct statement to make.
but as for the "he's a white man profiting off of black created entertainment", well... did you all know that eminem is just a dr dre side project? that dr dre is responsible for a good 50-60% of the marshall mathers lp, the slim shady ep, the eminem show, etc, and another 5-10% is from other black artists from their contributions to the music, and marshall himself has discussed this countless times in interviews and benefit concerts and donations and SONGS? by saying that eminem is racist BEYOND any other white person, you are calling into question decisions made by every single black person he's ever worked with in his career, which edges into the hundreds.
and "tarantino wrote the script for pulp fiction just to put his character in so he got to say the n word" except he wrote the script to play lance the drug dealer so you don't know what you're fucking talking about, clearly. plus, it's ACTING. you think sam l jackson would stay a constant member of tarantino's casts if he were violently antiblack racist?
now, if a black person has the opinion along the lines of how a rich black person has more in common with a rich white person than a normal black person, just like the clusterfuck that was the oj simpson trials, and that it doesn't matter if nicki minaj or dj khaled or jay-z or will smith or whoever collaborated with a white person because since they have money they can break through the class gate and have white passing privilege and escape the racist treatment in our society, or something, that's one thing. you're entitled to that opinion because it's a subject that directly affects you and you've had more education on it than anyone who isn't black.
I am directly aiming this post at the dumbass discourser white kids who stir up cyber-drama because they don't know how to speak to real humans, and try to get a gold star with takes like "stupid is an ableist slur" and "bitch is a misogynist slur" and "my dude is just another way for white people to say my n*gga" and shit like that. they're the same people to ignore the facts that eminem and tarantino acknowledge that they got where they are today because of the creations of black people (and japanese & latine, in the latter's case, since a lot of his shit concerns samurai/kungfu, hispanic culture, etc) and continue to find work today with the black artists who seek them out and continue to try to collab with them constantly. you, idiot kid on tumblr who sends death threats and suicide baits through anon because they like steven universe or kpop or something, do not have the authority to speak over, for example, dr dre, let alone ANY black person. these shit memes are not funny, and only serve to dilute legitimate claims of racism when they happen and are required. like the massive amounts of fetishism towards black people in the kpop community. nobody is taking that seriously AT ALL, and it is highly concerning especially considering that korean entertainment in general has a HUGE racism problem that's rapidly reaching the same levels as early 00s disney (the crows :/ ).
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lmaoo now that the clusterfuck which was the clip show discourse has ended...id like to give my two cents.
i know everyone’s all over how it’s charlie’s imagination at the end, and how he’s watching thru the door as the top spins and the ep comes to a close. but we’ve seen previously in the same ep (in frank’s imagination, with the hair and the legs,) how it can seem like one person’s imagination and actually be another’s.
people also keep pointing out - the gang seems so, so goddamn strange, the whole time. everyone is off, mac and dennis’ dynamic is weird, everyone’s too forgetful or what have you...we all felt it. they seemed like strange caricatures of themselves taken from afar. as if someone was trying to portray them in their head the whole episode.
so tht brings me to my theory. i believe that the whole time, start to finish, the episode was...in dennis’ head. not charlie’s. considering he’s been much calmer than he was in comparison to the gang escapes (CAN I RIFF, don’t sit down, the fucking room) & time’s up, this could be him projecting onto his fictional/imagined self in the ep...he didn’t lose it ONCE this episode. for example, instead of yelling his head off in denial @ mac or whatnot when asked why he isn’t a good roommate, he just stuttered and had nothing to say. even when the gang cornered him against the bar in anticipation. he didn’t lose it. and he was only mad at mac over the fact that he supposedly turned off the lights, not the fact that in this projection of themselves dennis grabbed mac’s hand and held it to his heart. he wasn’t upset over that at all.
in addition to that - the top was still spinning at the end as well, really obviously. who started the top? dennis did. he also believed the spinning top theory more than the gang did, obviously, bc he’s a dumbass, but my takeaway from that is it probably would’ve stopped spinning otherwise. i understand that charlie peeked his head in at the ending - but that could’ve been dennis’ subconscious making that happen in his daydream because he was also fixating on how weird it was to him that charlie watched himself thru the door in ‘his’ imagination.
not to mention, the whole episode centered a lot around dennis trying to ground himself to reality. he was very centered on needing everyone to not fuck with reality, and he was scared of them misremembering, way more scared than he usually is about stuff. he could’ve just walked away and left it...but he didn’t. he’s obviously much more paranoid about what he does and doesn’t consider reality, and another big trait dennis probably has because of all his trauma is staying grounded to what’s real and what isn’t. and personally, i can say, that shit is scary. he also probably has issues with maladaptive daydreaming. it wouldn’t shock me as someone who’s gone thru some stuff tht reflects off of dennis’ traumas pretty well, and i see this all the time in people i know who’ve suffered from similar things.
in conclusion, i believe he dreamt this all up as a way to project some of his fantasies onto the gang (ie alt ddl ending, wishing they didn’t even know he’d left, being able to control himself around mac and not scream at him.) i also believe this is the calm before the storm, and he’ll break soon. we all know kaitlin said he might get jealous, and glenn’s trying really hard to hide aspects of his character, along w rcg being stingy with promos. this could all lead up to his final break being in episode 9...the super bowl episode. i also think this because considering rcg didn’t know how much air time they’d have left in season 5...the made episode 9 mac and dennis break up, which is considered a very pivotal point in their relationship for many. it’s also heard that the dennis system & mac fights gay marriage/dennis gets divorced was supposed to be for season 5 originally. rcg has said many times that they were going to wrap up mac and dennis’ relationship in season 5. sadly i can’t find a source bc im a dumb bitch but here’s some audio that relates to it and supports this. i believe that since they were trying to wrap macdennis up as endgame in s5, and everyone’s being so goddamn vague abt it, something big is gonna happen in super bowl/mac finds his pride. this could also be why the charlie’s home alone ep seems so cheery, they’re gonna bring us up before they crush us with dennis’ explosive breakdown in the super bowl ep, and whatever the fuck happens in mac finds his pride. i wouldn’t be too shocked if they made them get together in s14 as an endgame type thing. thanks!
#s13#iasip#always sunny#analysis#meta#macdennis#discourse#theory#season 13#ash.mp3#dennis#mac#the gang does a clip show#i literally did not proofread this at fucking all so if smths spelled or worded wrong @ me pls#im hungover bc i necked 4 bottles of malt liquor last night so my head pounds rn so this is NOT my best work lmao#oh well
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