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stanlunter · 3 days

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I'm kinda curious why you don't like catradora? Is it just not your thing or do you have reasons? Just kinda curious as I almost always only see the "they were enemies! And that makes it too toxic!" But I saw you like catra/glimmer so yeah, just curious as someone who personally likes it but also hasn't watched the show in ages

Thank you for your question

Yeah, I do hate it, mb not its fans (or at least not all of them, cuz most of them are actually super annoying, but anyways) tho. Also sorry for my bad English

As for the reasons, there are actually many reasons:

Starting with, like you said

1. Being toxic. But the difference with Glitra is that in their way It's not like Catra abuses Glimmer, no, they hate each other mutually, there ia no "abuser x victim" dynamic, bc they hurt each other mutually. Also there are no manipulations, guilt-trips, gaslighting and etc, they are completely honest with each other. While with Adora, their dynamic is rather "abuser x victim" than "enemies to lovers" bc Adora never wanted to hurt Catra, she was always only ensuring what Catra's doing and saying. Adora was always holding back, never tried to kill Catra or make her feel like nothing or hate herself and all her fights were litterally either self-defense or defense of her friends or other people who were attacked by Catra. While Catra always tried to hurt Adora, both mentally and physically, tried to kill her many times, tried to make her hate herself and etc, etc. She was the reason why Adora had such a strong hero complex and always wanted to sacrafice herself. Adora litterally had panic attacks bc of Catra. And the whole "it was a war" argument doesn't work here bc being a war criminal doesn't make Catra any better and bc Catra was toxic to Adora even when they were on the same side. She was always jealous, controlling, possesive and didn't want Adora to have other friends. She wanted Adora to belong to her, which was shown many times. Also she physically hurt her many times, gaslighted her and etc. So their relationship would be much more abusive than Glitra relationship. And what makes it even worse is that Catra has learnt all her abusive traits from SW - recognized Adora's abuser. Catra litterally copies everything the main abuser who has traumatized Adora in the forefront does, which is actually creepy af too. Even she tortures Adora in s4 she says that she took the idea from SW. So she just takes the abuse she (and Adora) has been throught and intentionally uses it against Adora

Even if you have a kink for abusive ship, you should write them well and not put them in a kid show, normalizing abuse by this. There are examples of good enemies to lovers in kid shows which aren't abusive and It's fine (like Dipper/Pacifica, Talon/Penny, Bubblegum/Marcelin kinda, Amaya and Janai (It's good and It's wlw too), even Glimmadora would work since they were enemies too and etc).

2. The whole being "basically adoptive sisters" thing. They aren't actual sisters, but they were actually implied to be so. I won’t even mention every time the CREW referred to them this way (however, there were many times), but the main problem is that their whole relationship is fully based on the "Skapegoat & Golden child" dynamic. And SW is a mother figure who loves one child and hates the other one, who always tries to earn her love and jealous and hate the favourite child. Some people say SW was just a teacher and not a mom figure, but it would be a lie at least bc 1. The crew has stated SW as a mother figure, so It's canon anyways 2. It was said by Adora that SW was like a mother to her 3. You don't try to earn your teacher's LOVE like Catra does 4. The whole thing that SW sees herself in Catra and wanted fulfil her ambitions throught Adora. Also SW wasn't a mother figure for other cadets, it wasn't actually her duty to teach Lonnie, Kyle, Rogelio and others. She was a right hand, not a teacher and she was there only for Adora bc she decided so and for Catra bc Adora wanted so. So, even if you're trying to ignore it, It's a huge part of the plot and a base of their relationship. Oddly enough, but many catradora shippers actually love to admit that "SW was a bad abusive mother", "Catra & Adora have mommy issues", "Adora is a favourite child" and etc, yet when you point it out, they start denying it. I find it strange.

Another thing is subjective, just my personal vision, but I highly dislike all "childhood friends" ships (mb with exceptions if they always actually had feelings for each other, but in catradora case we find out about it only later, especially from Adora's perspectice). Also there is a biological theory that if kids know each other since the age under 6, they see each other as siblings anyways, especially if they grow up together in the same house, especially with the sams parent figure. So, even tho it's subjective, It's an important reason to ms. And I actually did thought of them so and thought everyone does untill I joined the fandom. So even if I don't recognize "see each other as siblings" thing when it comes to usual friends who haven't been grown up together, I do with those who have. Flr example, Renora. This ship was always weird to me and when they become canon, it didn't make me love it. I don't think It's problematic, but it absolutely does make me feel uncomfortable. Like, if you haven't developed your feelings for each other for during these 10 years you were together, where are the feelings suppose to come from later?

But yeah, childhood friends thing is my subjective reason

3. Catra's redemption arc was horrible. And redemption arc is one of the most important things when it comes to enemies-to-lovers, since It's the thing that suppose to help them become canon. Everyone immidiatly has to forgive Catra and no one calls Catra out for what she has done. Even Glimmer, who's mom was killed bc of Catra or Adora who has been abused by Catra for years. And so Catra doesn't even actually changes. She just swaps sides and immidiatly becomes Adora's gf. That's the problem. If you write enemies-to-lovers, do it well

4. The whole way the shis was handled. It just doesn't make sense and completely ruins the whole development of almost all characters. Adora's development is getting destroyed and she just comes back to s1 Adora. Her whole arc was about stopping blaming herself for Catra's actions, separating from her abusers and getting a life. But she just ends up forgiving Catra and considering Catra a victim of herself. And starts blaming herself for "leaving" Catra again. They just forget everything they've been throught. And what about Catra? Catra was obsessed the whole time. She hated Adora and liked hurting her. Catra was litterally addictive to Adora. It wasn't love, it was possesion. And giving an addict a drug isn't a way to go. Catra should separated from Adora, learn how to live without the idea of being "either with her, or againt her". That's why I think her leaving the Horde with Scorpia and going to a Crimson waste would be the best happy ending for her. She would get a life, get what she wanted (being loved), what she needed and what she deserved and let her issues go. So they just aren't good for each other. Having Adora around was always hurting Catra, Catra never was able to fully show herself when Adora was with her in the Horde and she even saya that Adora leaving gave her a chance to fulfil her actual potential, so Adora leaving was the best thing happened to her. Even if Catra wasn't fully agree with her own words, it was basically truth, bc Catra actually did feel bad bc of Adora when they were together (it wasn't Adora's fault, but still). Catra was always blaming Adora for her problems and didn't stop even in s5. So It was bad not only for Adora, but for Catra as well

Also Adora never even loved Catra before. If Catra's possesion can be called love at some point, it doesn't work this way with Adora. Yeah, Adora cared about Catra as a friend, but DT was right, Adora didn't need Catra. She didn't have such big problems with letting Catra go. After s1 she forgot Catra and never recalled her as a friend, only as an enemy. So her whole "I love you too" thing just came out of nowhere and was a lie. Just like "I never hated her" bc Adora did and it was shown. Adora got new friends who care about her and getting Catra was absolutely unnecessary for her. It doesn't work even as a Stockholm Syndrome or a trauma bond, bc it was never shown and Adora got a development

Actually, if it did make sense, mb I would like it, but unfortunately it really doesn't and only ruines everything the show has been building for years, which is sad, cuz I used to love both Catra and Adora

It's also strange to me how shippers compare catradora to so many actually good wlw couples like Korrasami, Harlivy, Caitvy, Lumity, Bumbleby, Chaggie and etc, while in reality their relationship is much closer to Tauradonna (which is actually hated by Bumbleby shippers, which is ironic) and Citrus and actually Shin Soukoku and Simon/Grace, or even some actual/ almost actual siblings like Vi/Jinx, Zuko/Azula, Rapunzel/Cassandra, Claudia/Soren, Qrow/Raven, Maki/Mai, Nightwing/Red hood, Thor/Loki, White queen/ Red queen and etc.

But I would prefer to compare it to Shin Soukoku tho

So, these are the main reasons. Actually I don't understand why can't catradora shippers just admit that their ship is problematic and enjoy it as it is, bc it doesn't really make sense to just make ship a full ooc and make it romantic and sweet to like it, bc it litterally goes against the whole point and everything it always has been. So I have a big respect for those shippers who do admit the problems and enjoy it without lying to themselves and gaslighting others tbh

Anyways, thanks for a question, it was actually interesting to answer it and you can feel free to asnwer, desagree or agree, Im not a hater or smth

#Anti catradora #Anti c//a #anti spop s5 #spop criticism #spop critical

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 2 months

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“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.

grace monroe (infinity train) • black american

connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american

katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk

wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american

suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese

korra (the legend of korra) • inuk

jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)

lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino

azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian

luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american

(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)

#spop critical #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop #she ra #anti spop #the owl house #toh #infinity train #tlok #the legend of korra #korra #avatar the last airbender #atla #kipo and the age of wonderbeasts #carmen sandiego #steven universe #steven universe future

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madnessandentropy · 4 months

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If you say a healthy relationship where the characters respect each other and are an equal level is "boring" you are an instant red flag to me, because every person who says this turns out to be a piece of shit that glorifies abuse and, if they are a creator, generally suck at storytelling as well

EDIT: Just to clarify I don't mean you can't enjoy toxic ships. I didn't get it across well, but what I'm talking about is fans who ignore blatant abuse and try paint it as a "spicy romance" and dismissing healthier ships/couples as "boring and vanilla". If you refuse to acknowledge a relationship is toxic and instead glorify/romanticise it while saying actually healthy ships are too boring then you are in fact a red flag

#thoughts #this applies to so many damn fandoms #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #hazbin hotel critical #spop critical #spop critisism #anti catradora #anti spop #lo criticism #lo critical #lore olympus critical #anti lore olympus

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slothyykittee · 2 months

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The biggest thing I learned when being a critic of other writers, is that pride will lead to your downfall.

Whether you are religious or not, you may have heard the story of Lucifer and how he fell from grace due to pride. That story can be applied to this situation.

Writers proclaiming in their heads that their skills are pure perfection, to the point of doubling down on any criticism they see. This issue is due to these people seeing their writings as an extension of themselves, which then see this as a personal attack.

We all know that criticism, no matter how constructive, hurts. You worked so hard and did your best on a project, only for someone to point out the flaws of it.

You end up feeling broken and sad. Despite your efforts, your project is not perfect.

But here's the thing: You are human. You are bound to make mistakes. No person that lived on this Earth never made a mistake. You need to consider that person's point of view. Sure, you feel hurt hearing their critical words, but that's short term. You need to focus on the long term: the benefits that this critical view will give you.

Constructive criticism is like a medical needle: it will hurt you the first time, but in the long term, it will help you get better.

Listen what others tell you. They want you to reach your full potential. Don't dismiss it, or that will lead to your fall from grace.

#writing #writers on tumblr #writeblr #writing advice #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #spop critical #lore olympus critical #lore olympus criticism #she ra critical #svtfoe critical #writing community #on writing

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almacambiondaughterofsaleos · 5 months

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Good Summary Of Catra And Stolas

Both are basically one side of the same coin.

#helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #anti-vivziepop #spop critical #she-ra #she-ra critical #anti-spop #anti-sh-ra #anti-catra #anti-stolas #stolas

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shyrgyrryn · 3 months

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y'all, I just remembered that Bow is the youngest of thirteen. Where did the other twelve go? Even when the world is quite literally ending, Bow shows no concern for or even mentions his brothers. His fathers don't mention them either. Not a single one.

What's the point of giving him siblings, especially that many, and not including them in the story some way. Especially in situations where it makes sense.

They could have easily made Bow's backstory involve these characters. In my rewrite, I plan(?) on having Bow have an older brother (only one because thirteen kids are way too many) who was killed by the Horde. This is the reason why he insists on fighting in the war. It is also the reason why his fathers are so against him being involved.

They could have easily added something like this in the reboot. Bow literally said in the second episode that "everyone has lost someone to the Horde."

Who did he lose? Where are his brothers? Are they okay? Does he not have a close relationship with them? I guess we'll never know.

#spop discourse #spop critical #spop salt #anti spop #bad writing #she ra #spop #shera critical #bow #bow she ra #bow spop

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pepper-butler · 6 months

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im gonna be honest. i love hero x villain ships, and i love angsty enemies to lovers. but i hate catradora

why?

because of that dumb fucking redemption. if it was just a funny lil "what if the hero and villain had a thing for each other" ship i would've loved it.

but trying to redeem an abuser, blame the victim and play the relationship off as healthy? fuck no, catra is to be held accountable for all of her actions and adora deserves better than her. catra is a horrible person and the show should treat her as such, instead of an "uwu gay disaster baby".

enemies to lovers shouldn't be a victim being emotionally scarred from an abuser, it should be enemies who are equal to each other. i would much rather ship catradora if catra hated everyone else just as much as she hates adora

if you ship catradora, fine. good for you, honestly. but don't hit me with the "its healthy" bs, or the "you don't know what enemies to lovers means". i do know what it means, i just don't like the abuser x victim sort

#catras redemption arc can suck my asscheeks #spop salt #spop critisism #spop critical #catra is an abuser #anti catra #anti catradora #catra salt #catra criticism #catradora salt #catradora criticism #adora deserves better

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anti-catradora-collection · 2 months

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glimmadora appreciation post!

i can't believe they weren't a canon couple. like PLEASE LOOK AT THESE.

(I don't know if this expression exists outside of Brazil, but it's like they say: "they had the knife and the cheese in their hands and didn't do anything with it".)

there's a lot more moments i could add (including the hot springs scene), but tumblr has that limit of 10 images per post.

#glimmadora #glimmer #she ra adora #glimmer spop #glimmer x adora #adora x glimmer #spop critical #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop salt #spop #she ra

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terrabdectyle · 1 month

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#anti c//a #anti catra #anti catradora #anticatra #anticatradora #catra #catradora #spop critical #catra critical #adora #Catra's redemtion arc is bullshit! She deserves nothing. All she has is that crappy backstory.#Her fans are just biased but they don't want to admit it #Anyway #Adora has no reason to forgive that catgirl #Catra is trash😚 i'd rather kiss the floor than to rewatch this show

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spopsalt · 2 days

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Adora making fun of Kyle is so out of character, it's not even funny, not that making fun of Kyle was ever funny in the first place, like Adora is a pretty patient and kind person, yet she always bullies Kyle? I can see Catra bullying Kyle, but Adora? Adora???

#anti spop #spop discourse #spop criticism #spop crit #spop salt #anti catra #spop critical

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sealnoodlesoup · 21 days

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My stupid opinion that will get me killed by the entire She-Ra fandom

Shadow Weaver had a better redemption arc than C4tra

Yes, I know that Shadow wasn't fully redeemed, was terrible, and never apologized for her actions. But at least she was useful and helped the rebellion, unlike C4tra who was just getting in everyone's way. Shadow had many chances to betray the rebellion but she didn't meanwhile C4tra (who committed more and worse crimes than Shadow) would probably betray them all if someone offered her greater power because she only joined the rebellion when it was her only chance of survival despite being offered to join them many times before. And while C4tra did say she was sorry she never properly apologized for everything she did (like killing Angela and almost destroying the universe) and her apology always felt like she was just trying to earn sympathy from others. And she continued treating everyone horribly even after that. Shadow Weaver stayed loyal to the rebellion until the very end and even died for them, I know many people say that she only killed herself to traumatize C4tra, but the only proof of that they have is the "You're welcome" and it still can be argued what she meant by that (In my opinion it was "You're Welcome, now that I'm dead I won't bother you anymore" I'm not gonna explain why I think that here because this post is not about that). Shadow was the one who found a way to stop Horde Prime and did everything to make sure it worked, meanwhile, C4tra was being a nuisance and a distraction just so she could be with Adora and didn't care that the world might get destroyed because of it. She tried to stop Adora from taking the failsafe even though Adora was the only person who could survive it and got angry when Adora chose to save the world first instead of making out with her. Just to be clear I'm not talking about who was a morally better person, but who made up for their actions more.

In conclusion: Actions speak louder than words, Shadow Weaver was useful to the rebellion while C4tra was not.

#anti spop #anti catradora #anti catra #anti catra stans #spop discourse #spop critical #spop criticism #spop salt #my opinion #anti c//a #ftlosw

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 2 months

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“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra. (pt. 2)

mako (the legend of korra) • mixed (japanese and chinese)

min-gi park (infinity train) • korean-canadian

zuko (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

caitlyn kiramman (arcane) • bi-racial (east asian and presumably scottish)

miles morales (spiderverse) • puerto rican, afro-latino

amaya (the dragon prince) • east asian (ambiguous)

marshal lee (fionna and cake) • half-black (technically, marceline is black too but i figured marshal would be considered better representation)

carmen sandiego (carmen sandiego) • hispanic (argentinean-mexican)

toph (avatar the last airbender) • chinese

callum (the dragon prince) • half asian (ambiguous)

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madnessandentropy · 5 months

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"It's just a cartoon/movie/whatever" shouldn't apply to critcism it should apply to the batshit insane fans sending death threats over critcism of joke videos

Like that once bitch on Twitter sending the creator of that short TADC vid creator a death theat and then turning around to going "Oh I'm sorry I was just angry I didn't mean it ☹"

If you send death threats to people when you're angry you should get off the x app and see a damn psychiatrist

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #spop critical #spop critisism #thoughts #death threats are not normal what is wrong with you #lo criticism #lo critical #lore olympus critical #anti lore olympus

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can-of-tomato-soup · 2 months

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""We need more flawed female characters" Y'all couldn' even handle Catra" Is something I've seen commented a few times to people who are critical of Catradora when the thing is that I do like Catra even If she is a flawed character. Catra as a character is not what I have problen with.

What I do have a problem with is that Shera is a show for children, possibly the first Lgbtq+ representation they see and Catradora has an abusive dynamic that is normalized. Children, especially Lgbtq+ youth might see it, relate to it and think that the way Catra treats Adora is okay when it's not.

If Shera was a show for adults, exploring toxic dynamics in Sapphic relationships would be okay. If you like Catradora because they have a toxic relationship and like exploring non healthy dynamics, that's okay. I just don't think Catradora is a ship that should be treated like it is considering that the show is for kids.

#anti catradora #spop #spop critical #she ra and the princesses of power #canoftomatosoup

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starlight-bread-blog · 8 months

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Ememy Vs. Abuser: Catradora

Disclaimer: Netflix doesn't allow me to take screenshots. I tried to find clips on Youtube but a lot of these are stolen. And an obvious tw for abuse.

When Catradora antis bring up how Catra abused Adora in seasons 1-4, a lot of people seem to be confused. The go-to defense is the following:

"Catra and Adora were enemies, they were put against each other in many battles. The 'abuse' is just what you'd normally expect from enemies to lovers".

A complelling argument, for sure. How can you expect of Catra to not be violent with someone who was put against her? The answer to this question can be answered through a different question: Why is Catra the abuser? Why not Adora?

What's the difference between an enemy, and an abuser?

1# The aggressor is particularly cruel to their future partner.

Catra doesn't use her claws on real people very often. She mostly uses them on objects or robots (or Shadow Weather's mask).

At times, it's clear tnat she would gain a lot from using her claws, but she doesn't.

One might suggest that it's because she understands the full weight of using them. Whatever the case may be, there is a person she doesn't seem to have these reservations about: Adora.

2# Their intreractions contain emotional abuse.

Catra often blames Adora for things that aren't her fault. She's cruel to Adora, deliberately and viciously hurts her.

She makes mean spirited remarks and belittles her.

Additionally, Catra gaslit her.

And wouldn't you know it, she takes pride in having control over Adora.

3# There is no balance.

As we previously established, Catra has no problem being needlessly cruel to Adora. But is Catra in the same danger? It it at least mutually toxic?

It's not. Adora can fight and defend herself, but won't do more than she needs. Meanwhile, Catra seem to relish in brutalizing her.

Further more, moments that could be considered romantic build up in their own, "spicy" way, are positioned with Catra on top, where Adora has no choice but to comply, where she's stuck there.

4# The aggressor got in the victim's head.

Adora has a guilt complex. That's not a controversial take. She takes too much responsibility and thinks everything is her fault. A lot of this stems from Shadow Weaver, but there's another source.

And Adora is very quick to internalize her cruel remarks.

In Conclusion:

Catra and Adora's relationship can and was abusive during the war. They share specific patterns of abusive relationships even at war zone. Catra hurting Adora isn't all war stuff, it's personal, it's abusive.

#anti spop #spop critical #spop critisism #anti catradora #anti catra #anti c//a #anticatradora #antic//a #anticatra #antispop #catra critical #spop salt #catradora salt #shera princess of power critical #catradora is abusive #tw abuse #tw mental abuse #tw pysical abuse

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