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i-guess-im-into-this-now · 3 months

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HIStory 1: My Hero

Right off the bat the premise of this show is 🦇💩, which I usually love.

However...

This scenario does make me a bit uncomfortable.

Premise:

Due to the mistake of some reaper-like character, the soul of a young lady, Lan Shi, gets taken instead of the young man, Gu Si Ren. To fix his mistake Reaper ends up taking Gu Si Ren's soul and allowing Lan Shi to have his body, which she can keep if she can get her boyfriend, Hero, to kiss her within 7 days, and she can't tell anyone the truth.

I'm not great at analysis, nor am I especially well educated in gender or queer studies, so I may not be able to eloquently put into thought or words what bothers me about the premise.

But. There is something about unwillingly stripping a character of their gender that bothers me. I'm all for trans characters (and real people), but that is not what is happening here.

This is a woman being forced into the body of a man. Will she retain her identity as a woman? Will she identify as a man? How does this affect her sexuality? She has already lamented that in order to keep this body she will have to "turn" her boyfriend gay. Will she be comfortable seducing Hero?

I also feel bad for Gu Si Ren, who by any metric had a terrible life, and terrible death. His soul is gone but his body remains, to be given to someone else to use. Which also feels like a violation.

I'm also a little unsettled with the boyfriend Hero's place in this story as well, but for a wholly different reason. As far as he knows his girlfriend just died, and this character is expected to be kissing someone else within a week?! I'm guessing this show is going to blow right past Hero's grief.

Will this show use this premise as a chance to explore issues of gender identity and sexuality? I'll admit my hopes have bottomed out for this show. I'll have to finish it to see.

I've seen that some of the other episodes/seasons of HIStory are highly recommended, so I won't allow whatever happens in this one to dissuade me from watching the others.

***************************************

After finishing watching it, the show was better than I anticipated, but I still have some issues with it.

Spoilers

Lan Shi had more agency in the body swap than I originally thought. She was complicit in taking Gu Si Ren's body. Her actions which came from a place of desperation, are actually pretty reprehensible.

Her plan was to take Gu Si Ren's body, identy and life, and use them for her own purpose. It's pretty heinous, if you think about it. For her plan to work she needs to deceive and manipulate Hero. And she never considers for a moment what her actions mean for Gu Si Ren. Also, Lan Shi never shows guilt or remorse for her actions.

She learns over the course of the week that Hero, wasn't in love with her, but likely had a crush on Gu Si Ren. She also discovers that Gu Si Ren was in love with Hero through reading his journals. Suddenly she feels like she's inserted herself into a place she doesn't belong (you think?!).

Lan Shi does eventually give back Gu Si Ren's body. It's at a time that is poignant for her, but awkward for Gu Si Ren and Hero.

Lan Shi doesn't ever try to correct any of the problems she created between the two guys, including some pretty insensitive comments about gay men that really upset Hero.

My Hero is a strange story with an uncomfortable premise that I think actually had more potential for exploring issues with gender/sexual identity, than it utilized.

It failed to be a romance due to the fact that the actual lovers are only together briefly, and we see very little of how their relationship evolved.

The show instead revolves around Lan Shi and her inability to recognize that her relationship with Hero had failed, and her unwillingness to accept that. Which, I also could have got behind if Lan Shi had been able to do some introspection and shown some growth.

It did turn out to be a lot better than I feared it would be at first glance, but ultimately it was underwhelming.

#HIStory my hero #HIStory 1 #HIStory bl #bl HIStory #bl series #bl shows #HIStory1 #My Hero bl

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halliescomut · 1 year

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2022 BL opinions

Now...I suppose I'm decently new to BLs, not the general concept, but I've only been super actively engaged in watching eastern BLs for about a year...I think I started around February, but I can't be sure. I can be sure that I started with Gameboys, and I still adore that show. Anyway....someone here (if I can find the post I'll tag it in edits) shared a chart for you to put your opinions on...and I love to share my fully subjective opinions....so this is a scatter graph of all of the eastern BLs I watched in 2022. This is NOT limited to ones that came out in 2022. It includes anything I fully finished before posting this, so Remember Me is included even though it's last few eps were in 2023. So here you go...

I know everything is super tiny, sorry about that...so I've also included my excel sheet:

Now, for some caveats! When marking technical quality, 90 % of that grade is behind the camera, it's writing, it's sets/ production design, costumes, storyline/plot, all of that. Actor skill can improve quality...good actors can elevate a poor script, so it may add points, but 'poor acting' doesn't take them away for me. Anything that I found to be just mid as far as production value started at one, then points were added or deducted based on good plots, quality writing, costuming, etc.

I am honestly super easy to please as far as enjoyment, there's very few things I just flat out dislike, and if I did...I didn't finish the show, so it won't be here. I tried to be kind of harsh here, because if I wasn't then almost everything was going to be 7 or above. Mid for me is 0, if it's positive I liked it, if it went into the negatives that's something I don't necessarily regret watching, but I definitely won't be recommending. If it got above a 5, that's something that's going to get recommended, and it's also something likely to get a re-watch.

In terms of shows that are known to be problematic as far as themes...I'm generally not here to yuck someone's yum, these shows get made because there's an audience. If it had story elements that reduced my enjoyment that obviously does deduct points. But I'm also not going to find some things as disagreeable as someone else might. I also try my best to be cognizant that these shows have a long history in their respective cultures and there are tropes or common story points that either are problematic, or can be problematic. So when I'm watching I'm trying to take these shows as they are, not viewing them solely through a western lens. That being said there are some tropes that I have no issues with that many other BL fans absolutely despise.

#2022 BL Round-up #BL dramas #Thai BL #Korean BL #Taiwan BL #Phillipines BL #Kinnporsche #Love in the air #Gameboys #Gameboys BL #Plus & Minus #Cherry Magic #HIStory BL

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itsanidiom · 10 months

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OFFICE BLS RANKED BY THEIR ABILITY TO MAINTAIN THE VENEER OF APPROPRIATE WORKPLACE BEHAVIOUR

Because I saw @sorry-bonebag's tag and had to.

Here we go! Disclaimer: I'm not going to list every Office BL™ these are just the ones I've seen. Sorry if your fav is missing! Let's start with our lowest scorer that definitely sets the tone for the bottom of the barrel.

CHECK OUT - The veneer is tracing paper if not completely transparent. Fucking in the office. Yeah. That's an HR violation for sure. Thankfully your company is too small to have an HR department. But you're definitely getting fired by your boss who is also your boyfriend who you are also cheating on.

BED FRIEND - The veneer is only considered opaque because everyone else in the office is blind as hell. HR is pretty sure you two fucked in the office bathroom, but they have no proof so could only give you a warning.

LOVE MATE - Veneer is 1-ply. I mean, if the whole office ships it, is it truely an issue? HR thanks you for keeping things PG.

WE BEST LOVE: FIGHTING MR. 2ND - The veneer is definitely paper thin, but it's 2-ply. At least you avoided fucking in the office. Just a good smack in the face and some mutual sexual harassment. HR win...I guess.

HISTORY4: CLOSE TO YOU - Veneer is getting a little thicker, but depends on the light. Rooftop and in-office grandiose love confessions aside, HR thanks you for keeping your higher heat make out sessions off business hours. Still, gossiping about your romantic interests with your coworkers is grounds for a warning.

OUR DATING SIM - Veneer is about as thick as the space between your legs through which HR can see that you're literally holding hands in the office right now, stop it.

STEP BY STEP - The veneer is solid. Mainly office stuff happens in the office. HR approves of this boring as hell vibe. Still, you get marked down slightly because you did almost get down in the company parking garage.

CHERRY MAGIC - The veneer is a wholesome thickness, but no kissing in the company elevator. HR slap on the wrist for sure. We don't care how quickly the doors closed. There is CCTV in that elevator, sirs.

JUN & JUN - The veneer is currently in the process of being painted on so we'll have to wait and see, but it's looking pretty thin so far. HR has their pens ready to write up the report.

OLD FASHION CUPCAKE - The veneer is solid, but HR saw you hugging in the coffee station. Thank you for waiting until you were off work hours to make out, I guess. Enjoy your fancy desserts.

ROOMATES OF POONGDUCK 304 - The veneer is there. HR heard some weird noises over the zoom call, but we're just going to ignore those for now.

#bl drama #office bl #Are you in the HR department for a BL Drama that I did not mention? Please feel free to add #lol #roommates of poongduck 304 #step by step #old fashioned cupcake #cherry magic #check out the series #bed friend the series #we best love: fighting mr. 2nd #love mate #our dating sim #jun & jun the series #history 4: close to you #I have thoughts about Office BL Dramas

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wanderlust-in-my-soul · 11 months

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Delicious adjective, /dɪˈlɪʃ.əs/- used to describe a situation or activity that gives you great pleasure (Part 1/?)

Utsukushii Kare

Old Fashion Cupcake

Bad Buddy

War Of Y

Bed Friend

Love At The End Of The World

History 5

Summerdaze

Part of my favorite bl-tropes collection, as always in no particular order.

#multi bl #multibl.edit #bl tropes #finger in mouth #utsukushii kare #my beautiful man #old fashion cupcake #bad buddy #war of y #bed friend #love at the end of the world #history 5 #summerdaze #bl drama #bl series #myedit #asianlgbtqdrama #fingerlick

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yakdee · 5 months

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e·nig·ma /iˈniɡmə,eˈniɡmə/

the rarest type of gender; they bow to no one and they cannot be submitted; they can dominate every gender, alphas included, and will win every challenge or fight

#they DEFINITELY have history #pit babe #pit babe the series #pete x ken #garfield pantach #ping obrnithi #pitbabeedit #userpharawee #userspicy #user25shades #thai bl #thai drama #bl drama #bl series #raemakes #s:pb #omegaverse #just let me love queue

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nieves-de-sugui · 1 year

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A Quick History of BL

As someone who wrote a thesis on this very subject a few years ago, here is the short version of how BL has evolved throughout the years. For the new comers ❤

a minute of silence for the original form of this post that tumblr decied to not save right after I saved it

I am going to go with a chronological approach. Unfortunately, I cannot put everything in one post so if there’s any questions about this or that aspect of the history of BL that you want to know and it’s not talked about here, you are welcome to ask me directly :)

Context and influences - Japan in the 60′s

Before the US forced Japan to open its borders to the outside world in the 1800s, homosexual practices were common place between budist monks, samurais and kabuki actors. During the Edo period (1600s to 1800s) there was a very rich amount of poetry, art, books (such as Nanshoku Okagami (The Great Mirror of Male Love) by Ihara Saikaku) and codes of conduct about how to have a good master/aprentice relationship, kinda like the greeks if you know what I mean. However, with the arrival of western influences, in order to become a more “civilized” country, it was all put in the closet.

Yet, in the 60′s Japan started to pick it up again through literature about young androginous beautiful boys (aka bishounen). On one hand, in 1961, the novel Koibitotachi no Mori (A Lover’s Forest) by Mari Mori was published. It tells the story of a young and beautiful 19 year old worker and a half french half japanese aristocrat, and their tragic romance. On the other hand, Taruho Inagaki wrote Shounen ai no Bigaku (The esthetics of boy-love), an essay on aesthetic eroticism (of which he wrote a lot of). All this was know as Tanbi (lit. aesthetic) literature. It generally refered to literature with implied homosexuality and homoeroticism such as works by Oscar Wilde, Jean Cocteau, etc. And of course, Mori and Inagaki.

In chinese tanbi is read as danmei (term used to refer to BL novels in china today, ie: The Untamed it’s all connected friends).

From the birth of Shonen Ai to Yaoi - 70′s to the late 80′s

Around the beginning of the 70′s, shoujo was being revolutionized by the Year 24 Group, a generation of women manga authors (mangaka) who started to explore new themes. Among them, their interest in tanbi gave birth to a new subgenre: Shounen ai.

Their most known manga were:

Kaze to Ki no Uta (The Ballad of the Wind and Trees) by Keiko Takemiya, and Toma no Shinzo (The Heart of Thomas) by Moto Hagio

Their stories are characterized by having suffering eurpoean bishounen in boarding schools, living an idealized perfect love (meaning passionate) that, despite the tragic end of one of them, lives forever in the other.

As this genre starts getting popular, more and more fans of these stories start making their own self published manga, aka doujinshi, of the genre. It is around this time that the term Yaoi is coined. Meaning “YAma nashi, Ochi nashi, Imi nashi” (no climax, no fall, no meaning). Basically PWP fanfiction, for the most part. Doujinshis could be considered an equivalent of fanfiction in manga form. It is also here that the term Fujoshi (aka Rotten Girl, for liking rotten things) starts being used to refer to women readers of yaoi.

With this rise in popularity come the start of the commercialization of the genre. Which meant the publication of magazines dedicated solely to yaoi/shonen ai/BL. The most popular yaoi manga magazine at the time was June. The common trait of their stories being the therapeutic power of the love between the mains. The traumatized character would heal throught this newfound love.

Most of the stories at this time happened in the West (Europe or the States) as the exploration of these dark themes intertwined with homosexual romance and homoeroticism still feel safer to explore as a foreign concept. One example would be Banana Fish (1985).

Commercialization and Yaoi Ronso - 90′s

As more publishing houses pick the genre up, the term Boys Love is used to include every type of manga about homosexuality made for women.

The increasing amount of BL series sees a changes in its themes:

the start of the “gay for you” trope where one mantains their heterosexuality despite being in a homsexual relationship,

the uke/seme dynamic (mirroring hetero realtionships) also relating to physical appearence (one being more feminine, the other being more masculine),

the use of rape as an act love (sexual violence has always been present but here it becomes a staple),

anal sex as the only type of sex,

older and more masculine men start to appear

they now happen in Japan

Good examples of the presence of these themes in manga are Gravitation (1996) or Yatteranneeze (1995).

However in 1992, Masaki Sato (a gay activist/drag queen) wrote a letter in a small scale feminist magazine attacking yaoi and pointing out how it “represented a kind of misappropriation or distortion of gay life that impacted negatively upon Japanese gay men”. The female readers of yaoi responded, defending the genre as a means to escape gender roles and explore sexual themes that was never meant to represent the realities of gay men. This is know as the Yaoi Ronso (Yaoi Debates).

The debate ended with both sides understanding more of each other, with mangakas starting to include queer views in their works. It also started the academic reasearch of BL.

Yet, it is a debate that has been restarted more than once, as it is still relevant despite the evolution of the genre.

more on this on another post

Globalization and coining of BL - 2000′s

By the beginning of the 2000s BL is being sold all over the world (like all manga), and has become a stable industry. We could say it has finally become it’s own genre.

Some of the most well known manga series, to us (in the west), of the time are:

Junjou Romantica 2002 Koi Suru Boukun 2004 Love Pistols 2004 Haru wo Daiteita 1999

all of these have anime adaptations for the curious ones

We also start seeing short anime adaptations or special episodes of the most popular series, with questionable themes, such as: adoptive father x adoptive son (Papa to Kiss in the Dark 2005), father x son’s friend (Kirepapa 2008), etc...

However the themes remain more or less the same. Junjou Romantica’s love story starts with a non-con sex scene by the older one (masc, seme) to the younger one (more feminine, uke) addressed years later in the manga btw. Koi Suru Boukun’s love story is triggered by aphrodisiacs and rape. They’re still very present in the stories but slowly going away. A mangaka that represents this era could be Natsume Isaku (Candy Color Paradox 2010).

Change is slow in Japan. Even though the voices of LGBT+ people started to be taken into account in the genre it is not until later that we see it reflect in the mangas themselves. However, we can already see the start of this in Doukyusei (Classmates) (2006) by Asumiko Nakamura. Also Kinou Nani Tabeta? (2007) which is actually part of a more mature genre: Seinen.

It is my personal (subjective) theory that the BL of this era was the one that got popular outside of Japan, which is why we see lots of references to the themes, tropes and dynamics of this time in today’s BL series.

The LGBTzation of BL and the rise of webtoons - 2010′s to 2020′s

Slowly but surely LGBT characters and themes enter the scene of BL. Existing simultaneously with the previous tropes and themes, we start seeing a shift in these stories. We now see:

characters that identify as gay or some type of queer

discussions about homophobia

more mature themes about life and romance

At the same time as we get the usual love stories with the usual themes, a new trend starts to take over. And we get simultaneously, cute, sometimes questionable but light love stories:

Love Stage 2010 Ashita wa Docchi da! 2011 Kieta Hatsukoi 2019

More profound stories and darker or more complex themes:

Blue Sky Complex 2013 Saezuru Tori wa Habatakanai 2011 (mafias) Given 2013 (suicide) Hidamari ga Kikoeru 2013 (deafness)

And others that adress the queer experience in a more mature way (which might actually fall into the Seinen genre)

Itoshi no Nekokke 2010 (slice of life, queer characters) Smells like Green Spirit 2011 (two ways to deal with a homphobic society) Strange 2014 (relationships between men) Shimanami Tasogare 2015 (an LGBT group helps a closeted gay) Old Fashioned Cupcake 2019 (you know this one 😉) Bokura no Micro na Shuumatsu 2020 (the end of the world)

As queer stories are explored, BL mangakas and mangakas from other genres start to consider more stories about queer people such as the Josei Genderless Danshi ni Aisaretemasu (My Androgynous Boyfriend) (2018) by Tamekou, or the Shoujo Goukon ni Itarra Onna ga Inakatta Hanashi (The story of when I went to a mixer and there were no women) (2021) by Nana Aokawa.

Still, we can see two realities live side by side. Doukyuusei gets adapted into an impactful animated movie in 2016, meanwhile Banana Fish gets an anime adaptation that keeps the homoeroticism but not the homosexuality.

For those who might be interested. Here are some of the authors that represent the first half of this era, where they start to include newer points of view:

Scarlet Beriko, HAYAKAWA Nojiko, KURAHASHI Tomo, OGERETSU Tanaka, Harada, KII Kanna (Stranger by the Sea), etc...

And authors that while keeping classical themes break the stereotypes in a subtle manner:

CTK, ZAKK, Jyanome, Cocomi, Hidebu Takahashi, SUZUMARU Minta, etc...

Mangakas also no longer stick to one genre only. They explore whichever of them they want, from BL to Seinen to others.

ie: Tamekou,

or Asumiko Nakamura

The curious case of Webtoons

With the digitalization of mangas, throught Renta and Lehzin, it has become easier (and more expensive) to access these stories. Korea makes and appearence with their webtoons. Through the lack of piracy protections and the majority of them being digital, manhwa (korean webtoons) sees a rise in popularity. Through the digital medium the influencee can be the influencer.

However, like many other East Asian countries they have consumed BL, without hearing about the conversations about BL. So they end up mantaining the older themes and stereotypes that newer BL is trying to leave behind. Therefore, we end up with a mix of old and new, ie:

Killing Stalking 2016 Cherry Blossoms After Winter 2017 Painter of The Night 2019

Additionally, it is also thanks to the easy access to internet that Omegaverse, with its higher dramatic stakes (that parallel hetero dynamics), enters the mangasphere in 2016. It has grown in popularity ever since.

With the Thai BL Boom of 2020, Japan rediscovers its own BL market and starts investing in it more. Which is why we get live action adaptations of BL manga that was popular years ago (Candy Color Paradox was a manga from 2010), the more recent ones (The End of the World With You) or new anime adaptations (Saezuru Tori wa Habatakanai in 2020).

more on this in my japanese live action BL post

What has it become now? is it BL? ML? or Seinen? Or is it all just gay manga?

It is clear that Shoujo manga (with BL, Josei and Seinen) is exploring queer themes such as gender and sexuality more and more. Japan is interested in this conversation, not only in manga (Genderless fashion). Which brings up the current question in BL studies: Does it make sense to keep these categories?

As a response to BL, ML (Male Love), which is made by gay men for gay men, started happening (around the 70s too). And Bara (gay manga porn) in response to Yaoi. However both gay men and women read BL and ML. We also see other themes being explored through BL, such as friendship (in BL Metamorphose), food (in Kinou Nani Tabeta), male relationships of all kinds (in Strange), and different queer views on life and its challenges (in Shimanami Tasogare). More and more what is LGBT and what is BL is merging, the line is blurred.

Conclusion

BL has been in my life for longer than it hasn't. It is through shoujo and BL that I have come to understand people and romance.

It is flawed, like everything else this life, but it's flourishing in many ways.

The genre feels old and new at the same time.

We can still find shounen ai/tanbi elements in more modern manga (All About J). Or the gay for you in a new light (Itoshi no Nekkoke). Or more educational manga on queer issues (My Brother’s Husband by Gengoroh Tagame). BL has around 50 years of existence but it is also being born anew in Thailand and Korea.

BL manga will continue to evolve in acordance to Japanese tastes, as it is still a local market. Hopefully the korean webtoons that get popular will be the more daring ones in their themes. Who knows where it will go from here? The only thing we know for sure is that it will continue to change. Isn't it exciting?

A post on the evolution of live action BL in Japan is coming, to complement this post. As well as a more detailed explanation of the Yaoi Debates and gay manga.

#history of bl #bl post series #I feel like I left too much stuff out #I hope it makes sense #honestly I would really recommend reading some of those manga #they're super interesting #soon it'll be 20 years since I started reading BL #my gosh #if theres anything anyone wants to know more about #I'd love to write more :)#yaoi manga #bl manga

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conscbgb · 9 months

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I'm just gonna leave these here to convince you all to watch HIStory 3 - Trapped 😉😏

There's one thing he can do very well beside acting...being naked and hot 😎🙌😉

He can be both ☺️ 🥵

And here's his photobook coming out soon 😉

#andy bian #history 3: trapped #taiwan bl #taiwanese actors

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loveisactivated · 6 months

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Hao Ting & Xi Gu ♡

#make our days count #history 3: make our days count #history 3: modc #bl drama #modc #mjtag #usertaeminie #wayne song #huang chun chih #my loves for ever and ever ❤️#mine

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respectthepetty · 7 months

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Dear Taiwanese BLs, never stop giving me the "blinding light of love" moment.

I love a good old fashion color exchange but something about a blinding light appearing out of nowhere to signal the feelings are out in the open, people are thinking clearly, and the love is exposed just hits the spot.

Or you can give me that sweet sweet heart bokeh effect

#Taiwanese bls #the lighting is speaking to me #kiseki: dear to me #plus and minus #HIStory 4: Close to You #HIStory 5: Love in the Future #We Best Love #My Tooth Your Love #blind me with love #or give me the heart bokeh effect

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absolutebl · 6 months

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Favorite first kiss?

Favorite First Kisses!

Doozie of a question. Here we go...

1 Until We Meet Again

I mean COME on. How could this not be the #1 best first kiss? It's so gentle and so good and so hot and just... EVERYTHING a first kiss should be in life. A++ romantic

2 Old Fashion Cupcake

THE LONG SHOT. The desperation. The finger bite. The oozing THIRST. A++ quality desire incarnate

3 Why R U? Korea

Korea, scooping in a top spot? It's just the body language, the striding in, dropping the backpack, the surprised MUTUAL response (no flinching), and all the yearning. A++ want

(Foreshadow: This may... or may not... be my top kiss of 2023.)

4 Bad Buddy

Seriously boys, BOYS! You had to make it so beautiful and so painfully heartbreaking at the same time? Thanks for that. A++ pain

(They may have a light kiss before this one, I can't remember. I keep meaning to do a BB rewatch but I have to gear up for it.)

5 Semantic Error

I mean, well, OBVIOUSLY. Just A++ they perfect, no notes

6 Second Chance

I am pretty sure this one got best kiss of 2021. All you KinnPorche stans are sleeping on this little gem = Tong delivering what amounts to BLs best drunk kiss ever. FIGHT ME. A++ confused needy babies

7 About Youth

Speaking of sweet af first kisses from first timers. This one drips in sweet innocence including a rainbow and some smiles. A++ first sweethearts

8 HIStory 2 Crossing the Line

Okay the actors kiss for a dream sequence before this but this is the characters' first kiss, so that kinda counts, right? It's just such a pretty kiss. A++ stay on target, stay on theme, utterly unique

9 My Dear Gangster Oppa

Ya know this show is just so much fun and so solid and this pair deserves more accolades then their previous series afforded them. A++ finally, well done you

10 I Feel You Linger in the Air

Okay it's just all the dialogue and execution around this kiss is great and then the kiss ALSO doesn't disappoint. Plus permission and snark and so much more. A+++ class & storytelling

Also, whaan (sweet) is a really good word to have seared into one's brain in Thailand. Useful when ordering drinks.

Okay they kinda kissed before but this is the one that counts:

I didn't know how else to put this category but I had to include it so I could include this kiss:

We Best Love

The crying bridge-top kiss. I mean COME ON. One of my favorite kisses of all time. I love it when the weep+smooch.

La Pluie

Honestly? All their kisses are good so I can't remember if this was their first but, it great. Frankly, off all their kisses it's not my absolute favorite, but they deserve a mention because... wow boys. Just... wow.

The Eclipse

Because of their dynamic I am pretty sure there was something before this one, but this one lives in my head.

Be Loved In House I Do

I'm not sure this counts as their first because I can't remember the sequence in BLIHID (he through line is a bit wonky in my brain) but it is a killer kiss.

There should be more Taiwan but...

The thing is, once a Taiwanese BL starts delivering great kisses they just keep it up. So unless the narrative puts particularly strong plot intent on the "firstness" of that first kiss, they just get all sexy domestic muddled in my head.

Honor the Crumbs - Sides & Shorts, Best First Kisses

Some More

"You can kiss me, heong."

2 Moons 2 - MingKit

It's just such a sweetly perfect first kiss of the very first time variety. Before About Youth, we had these two.

Cutie Pie - NueaSin

Kissing the kiss that won them their own series. No other audition needed. In the land of amazing kisses, and up against Zee, this ONE stood way out. Very good boys. Very good indeed.

kiss x kiss x kiss - perfect scandal (AKA the office ep)

Look, this is the kiss we should have gotten in Cherry Magic. It's great, both the hesitant "permission given" first part and everything that comes next. Track this down if you can, it's a lovely little short from Japan.

My Secret Love - TimMai

Very minor side dishes but they were all I cared about in this show. They gave me the kiss I wanted even if they didn't get the screen time the deserved.

You're My Sky - SanAi

We all know they stole this show, not that there was much to steal.

Kiss Me Again - PeteKao

Maybe not the best as a kiss, but it was 2016 and this was SO SIGNIFICANT to the fandom, to the plot of the show, to coming out, to EVERYTHING. This is THE TayNew kiss. I will never forget it. Never.

I don't have a good screen cap but MarkOuwen's kiss in the taxi in Love is Science? was also fantastic.

(source)

Kisses as of Dec 2023. Not responsible for great first kisses that come after this date.

Opinion and preferences based on these ideas of good kiss chemistry.

I want you thoughts, RT and add your favorites or leave a comment. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

MORE?

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befuddledcinnamonroll · 10 months

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I'm not the only one who immediately thought of this, right?

#kiseki dear to me #history 3: trapped #bl series #carry that naughty boy #kiseki: dear to me

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ineffable-opinions · 1 month

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"Top", "Bottom" Discussion in Unknown ep. 12

The Office Gossip Scene

[Edited on 10th May; changes under clarification headings]

Now that the Unknown has resurrected the conversation about gong shou, let’s talk about it. The what and the why, so to say. Thank you @1serotonindeficientgirl (whose post inspired mine).

I welcome critiques and corrections. So, please feel free to do so.

Scenes and subtitles

The discussion in the episode starts with Wei Qian’s staff gossiping about his relationship with Wei ZhiYuan. One of the staff members comments that Wei Qian is like a little lamb (小绵羊) when it comes to his little brother:

只要遇到他弟弟就像小绵羊

Someone replies with the following idiom:

羊入虎口

(Literally: “a sheep enters a tiger's mouth”)

It means to enter a dangerous situation where one will certainly suffer [Source: Wiktionary].

The female employee (who witnessed their kiss) asks San Pang:

三胖哥谁是羊谁是虎啊 - Who is the lamb (羊; sheep) and who is the tiger (虎)?

This has some employees confused and they ask for an explanation. They receive the following reply:

就是攻跟受的差别啊 – [it means] between them, who is gong and who is shou?

One of the staff members repeats the unfamiliar terms:

攻受 – gong shou

and the fu-nu (腐女; fujoshi) offers an explanation:

好啦姊姊教你们 – let this elder sis explain

老虎看到羊会 – the tiger upon seeing the lamb…

Before she can complete her explanation, Wei Qian moves into the scene accompanied by the growl of a big cat. The gossipers disband.

In the end our fu-nu expresses their support for Wei Qian’s relationship with Wei ZhiYuan. Before she runs off, she throws him the question:

你们谁是攻谁是受啦 – between the two of you, who is gong and who is shou?

In the next shot Wei Qian is alone. He flexes his muscles and comments:

很明显吧 - It's obvious, isn't it?

[END OF SCENE]

Everyone at that office seems pretty close. The staff calls Wei “Qian ge” 谦哥 (first name + brother) and not as “Mr. Wei” (as the English subtitles suggests). Looks like Lao Xiong (emphasis on Lao = old) is the only one who clearly disapproves of such gossipmongering.

Notice how the terms gong and shou were translated directly into top and bottom in English subtitles. While that’s technically correct, there’s some nuance missing.

While there are tongzhi (同志;queer) people who use the terms gong and shou, these are not the most popular terms for top and bottom in the tongzhi community. This series specifically uses the terms gong (攻) and shou (受). Why? We’ll get to that in a minute.

In a BL, being shou means that character is the bottom in that particular ship. That character could be top, bottom, versatile or neither in another ship. A character is a bottom (as we use the term in English) only when that character is an absolute shou (sou uke in Japanese). An absolute shou is invariably shou. No matter which ship he becomes part of and no matter who he is paired with, he will be the shou. Similar difference exists between the terms “top” and “gong”.

English subtitles use ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ from the get-go. There is no need to explain what those terms mean. But that’s not the case with gong shou – only 腐 (fu) people (BL fans) really knows what those terms really mean and thus warrants explanation.

Clarification

[Edited. Thank you @abstractelysium and @wen-kexing-apologist for contributing to the conversation.]

As noted in the convo, Wei Qian is pretty ferocious in the office and is only gentle when it comes to Wei ZhiYuan. So, it is normal that gossiping irrespective of topic would end as soon as he arrives. Also, I think Wei Qian didn’t get what gong shou means other than allusion to tiger and lamb. The original language dialogues don’t make it clear that gong and shou means top and bottom (in a ship). [The English subs gives off that impression since gong and shou were simply translated.] Moreover, those terms are danmei literacies that has entered dictionaries but not necessarily public knowledge.

It is like an insider joke for fu-people made possible by Wei Qian’s ignorance. That wouldn’t have worked on Wei ZhiYuan who read danmei while growing up. That wouldn’t have worked if the fu nu (fujoshi) stuck around to explain what that means.

Usually in such conversations in BL, fu-people are shown to be mistaken: they either mess up the ship/dynamic (Love By Chance 1) or the character(s) in the ship deliberately trick them (Counter Attack). It is almost always played out with seme/gong’s approval in BL - not sure if that dynamic between fu-people & seme aka gong character ever appeared in any live-action dynamic. The trigger of this scene is Wei ZhiYuan’s deliberate choice of actions: PDA, kiss in the office right in front of a staff member.

BL literacies

BL is a media genre in itself with different sub-genres, genre conventions and classic works. It sure has a lot of overlap with other genres:

Romance as well as GL – they coevolved. They share mothers and other ancestors.

Queer – Is it really a genre? Even if one were to ignore queer as method in academia, it is still so complex.

Let me quote Taiwanese tongzhi author Chiang-Sheng Kuo:

… what exactly is queer literature? Is it queer literature if queer people like to read it, or is it only queer literature if there are queer characters in the books? Or is it an appendage of the queer movement? If a queer author writes a book without queer characters, does that represent a certain aspect of queer culture?

(You can find the whole interview here.)

Just as danmei (耽美; Chinese BL) has its roots in Japanese BL, so is gong (攻) and shou (受) from seme (攻め) uke (受け).

gong shou aka seme uke dynamics

Mother of BL, Mori Mari, didn’t come up with it, nor did her father Mori Ogai. Both she and her father, among the other dozen tanbi (耽美; same writing as danmei but different readings cause different languages, and different meanings cause different cultures) authors inherited it from authors before them who wrote on contemporaneous and historic Japanese male androphilia.

Spring Pastimes. Miyagawa Isshō, c. 1750 | seme uke dynamics in nanshoku pre-dates BL by hundreds of years.

While there is no dearth of riba (versatile) characters in BL, seme uke dynamics is:

a genre specialty. There are similar words in use in GL as well.

an enduring connection to the past of where BL was born.

remnants of a particular model of queerness; an alternative to LGBTQIA+ form of queerness.

What’s there in the scene

There is something hidden in the euphemistic explanation. On the face of it tiger devouring a lamb would be allusion to tiger gong devouring (topping) lamb shou.

But then tiger is a big cat and lamb is a herbivore. Neko (ネコ), the Japanese queer term for “bottom” means cat (etymology is obscure with this one). The term herbivore (草食) when used to describe a man means that man is masculine in a non-hegemonic way. In the series, Wei Qian embodies the hegemonic masculinity while Wei ZhiYuan is a quintessential grass-eater.

So, the description of lamb being devoured by a tiger would not be associated as simply as with the terms gong and shou especially when it comes from Taiwan which has been historically more connected to Japanese BL than any other BL producers (Sinophone or otherwise). This connection was highlighted during 魏之远 Wei ZhiYuan's naming scene where Le Ge used the borrowed Japanese possessive particle (の; no).

の = 之 (zhī)

The big cat sound effect for Wei Qian in particular adds to this. Wei Qian’s character is best described as a queen shou.

女王受 Queen shou: A shou who is as proud as a queen, and would devour gong. (source)

Wei Qian and Wei ZhiYuan’s ship is best described by Priest (the author of Da Ge, source novel of Unknown):

经典款毒舌女王和屁颠屁颠的忠犬组合 – paring of a classic, sharp-tongued queen and a tail-wagging loyal dog.

BL literacies & Affective learning

BL kind of has its own language (with words like gong shou), which fans use to share ideas and feelings. This secret language is what academics call ‘literacies.’ BL fans are all in on this and have their own ‘ways of behaving, interacting, valuing, thinking, believing, speaking, and often reading and writing’. Through ‘various visual, conceptual and textual literacies’, BL fans weave ‘an intertextual database of narrative and visual tropes which readers draw upon to interpret BL’. BL literacies is learnt through ‘affective hermeneutics – a set way of gaining knowledge through feelings.’ Audience learn BL literacies from BL works ‘which eventually leads to their active engagement’ with other BL fans. (source; Kristine Michelle L. Santos explains it in the context of Japanese BL but it applies to all BL media irrespective of where it is from.)

That scene in Unknown was set up to familiarize audience with BL literacies – not only those specific words but also the larger practice of imagining character pairing and indulging in that imagination. This is evident from the overall jubilant tone of the scene and the camera work. It is a celebration of moe. That is why we have a character who is not only a fu-nu but also willing to be openly fu-nu in that setting, sharing BL literacies and her colleagues interested to learn.

For other examples, check out Thomas Baudinette’s book Boys Love Media in Thailand: Celebrity, Fans, and Transnational Asian Queer Popular Culture. He has a chapter dedicated to explaining how genre conventions were taught to the early audience of Thai BL through similar scenes.

Why must they do this? Why break the fourth wall like this? To get more people interested in the intricacies of BL and to get them to participate in the culture. BL is created by fu-people and BL literacies are their tools and source of joy. BL must draw in more people to keep BL culture going. Commercialized BL we have today is the result of an affective culture formed over the years. It is built on years of labor of authors and their audience. I mean, look at the Unknown. This BL employs the well-developed Loyal Dog gong x Queen shou dynamics. Apart from that which the series took from the novel, it also drew upon other common BL beats to tease the relationship between Dr. Lin and his senior.

Teaching BL literacies is political. When Mainland Chinese government gets dangai productions to change names and relationships of characters (among other things), it is to prevent live-action audience from discovering BL as a genre with it disruptive potential. It is not only character's names and relationships that are changed. There are entire sub-genres of danmei (such as 高干) that got wiped out by censorship.

When a Taiwanese BL not only retains the character names & relationships and shows relatively explicit intimate scenes but also actively promotes BL literacies, it is an act of resistance. Discussion of gong shou, being genre specialty, manages to do so. Interestingly, they are doing it in an adaptation of a novel by Priest who has a particular reputation with self-censorship. That scene is not part of the source novel.

Heterosexual & gong shou

Association of bottom with the feminine (female or otherwise) has its roots in medicalization (and pathologization) of homosexuality in the west (such as through theories by scientists and doctors like Richard von Krafft-Ebing). This “knowledge” subsequently spread across the globe and was adopted to varying degrees and forms.

Moreover, the terms gong and shou applies to heterosexual pairing too.

BG (boy girl) ships have male gong and female shou

GB (girl boy) ships have female gong and male shou. [If this is interesting unfamiliar territory, check out the series Dong Lan Xue (2023).]

Moreover, if one is willing to look beyond LGBTQIA+ form of queerness (which is born and brought up in America), one can see other queer possibilities. For example, Kothi-Panthi queerness in South Asia which is characterized by explicit presentation of top bottom dynamics. There are very many similar forms of queerness in other parts of Global South.

In many cultures, sexuality doesn’t inform identity but sexual preference does. That’s why is you are to ask a kothi-panthi couple which one of you is the bottom, the kothi would tell you without hesitation: “I am.” Might even asked you in turn, “Couldn’t you tell?” For them, sexual preference (being kothi) rather than sexual orientation takes center stage. This is the inverse of how LGBTQIA+ form of queerness looks at it. While LGBTQIA+ model of queerness focuses on sexual orientation (being pan, ace, gay, etc.) as something that can be freely discussed but sexual preference (top, bottom, versatile, side, etc.) is considered private.

*Just to be clear, “kothi” is a term of self-identification. It means that the person is a bottom. Panthi is not self-identification. That’s how kothi address the men who top them.

While thanks to westernization LGBTQIA+ form of queerness enjoys more visibility, I think it is better to consider it as one type of queerness rather than the only model of queerness. Gong shou dynamics doesn’t fit into LGBTQIA+ form of queerness because it comes from another, much-older nanshoku model of queerness that made its way into Japan from China, hundreds of years ago. Friction between different models of queerness is common where ever they interact. In 1970s, Japan was witness to public debates between a younger, westernized Japanese queer activist Itō Satoru and other Japanese queer activists such as Fushimi Noriaki and Tōgō Ken who were rooted in indigenous tradition of male-male sexuality.

[Itō Satoru’s] insistence on the necessity of adopting western models of gay identity and coming out have brought him into conflict with other activists such as Fushimi Noriaki and veteran campaigner Tōgō Ken.

Interpretation and Orientalism: Outing Japan's Sexual Minorities to the English-Speaking World by Mark McLelland

Clarification

[Edited. Thank you @wen-kexing-apologist for contributing to the conversation.]

Under the LGBTQ+ model of queerness, it maybe considered inappropriate to have conversation about “top” “bottom”, especially in the office, going as far as to ask that to Qian ge. From that perspective, the BL audience (especially those who are unfamiliar with the terms gong and shou) are fair in their assessment of that scene being out of place or outright offensive.

I think things might have been a bit different if the subtitles retained the terms gong shou instead of “top” “bottom” since they aren’t exactly the same thing. That would have had the desired effect (of introducing BL literacies - gong shou in the context of 强强 (strong gong x strong shou) pairing) without unintended consequence.

What is considered rude under the LGBTQ+ framework is an essential part of fu culture. It is like addressing Wei Qian as just Qian – that could be considered rude in the original language but pretty normal in English. Different cultures, different norms, so to speak. It is only polite to be mindful of the cultural differences and avoid discussing about sexual preference where it is considered inappropriate.

As for the normalization of fu culture (especially discussions of gong shou), in my opinion the didactic scope of Unknown is undermined by the very fact that it is primarily a gǔkē danmei (via adoption (收养)) with tongyangxi vibes (highlighted multiple times by San Pang in the novel) associated with Wei ZhiYuan.

Somehow fu-culture gets judged by those who consume products of that culture. Everyone is happy with fu-cultural products as long as fu-people don't discuss who is gong and who is shou.

Why are fu-culture and BL always judged based on a culturally alien lgbtq+ form of queerness? Why must BL be arm-twisted to fit into norms of lgbtq+ form of queerness just because that is the most mainstream form of queerness?

That’s not much a conclusion but this is already so long. I really hope it gives you something to think about.

If you are interested, here's more.

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pharawee · 8 months

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"Nara's life is pitiful. She is about to marry a man as a mistress in exchange for her family's comfort and happiness. This short story reflects the oppression and principles of a woman being kept and suppressed. However, after I've read it, it also reflects who I am."

—I FEEL YOU LINGER IN THE AIR 💮 Episode 7

Bonus:

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buddhamethods · 6 months

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10 BL Characters I Would Hit With My Car

(I don't have a licence and can't drive so this is just for fun OBVIOUSLY)

LISTEN, I love these characters. They are complex, they are human, they are flawed and yet you can't help but root for them. Or they are just giant assholes.

Regadless, I think they would all benefit from getting hit by a car as a little treat.

Feel free to tag yourselves and participate in a bit of lighthearted negativity and media complaining.

1) Ben From Never Let Me Go (2022)

Of course he would be on this list. Mainly because how are you, a closeted gay in a coming of age bl drama, sitting down in front of a piano next to a beautiful boy and not just completely eat his face in a passionate life altering kiss? I understand that was the whole point of the scene, but personally I would rise above the narrative that was trapping me.

2) Dan from Not Me (2021)

Being a cop, killing Sean's father and selling NFTs is bad enough on it's own, I agree. But Dan's biggest sin was taking the cigarette out of Yok's mouth and depriving us of seeing sad First Kanaphan smoking near a body of water-THE queer cinema experience.

As it turns out, you can be gay and homophobic at the same time.

3) Kenji from My Dear Gangster Oppa (2023)

So you have funky hair and kawnty fashion sense? Oh, you partake in fun bathtub threesomes? What, you're a little unhinged and psychotic? Perfect! THEN WHY THE HELL YOU SUCK AT BEING A VILLAIN SO HARD HUH???

Kenji you better put your helmet on, I'm turning on the engine.

4) Kanghan from Dangerous Romance (2023)

Rich people don't deserve rights in general so Kang was already on thin ice to begin with. But being a bully on top of that? UNDER THE HOOD OF THE CAR YOU GO!

Also he is so attention starved on account of his father being a negligent asshole that he will jump in front of my car willingly just to get a drop of love from dad and Sailom.

5) Yu Xi Gu from HIStory3: Make Our Days Count (2019)

(I'm so so incredibly sorry but I HAD to okay you don't underst- *gets shot immediately*)

6) Mork from Fish Upon The Sky (2021)

I looked at Pond for 0.1 second and fell so embarrasingly in love that for the entirety of FUTS I saw no flaws in Mork's character at all. All he did made sense and I was blissfuly having a great time! So I'm pummeling him to the ground for my own sake I CAN'T KEEP BEING THIS STUPID ABOUT HIM HE IS OBJECTIVELY CREEPY!

7) Vee from Love Mechanics (2022)

Was he in my "I want them carnally" list? Yes. Do I find him beautiful and incredible? Double yes. Am I smearing him on asphalt like a squished bug for causing Mark so much unnecessary pain and heartbreak? More likely than you think.

8) Jiwoo from To My Star/ To My Star 2 (2021-22)

MY BEAUTIFUL BOY!! A crumb of healthy communication is all I'm asking for!

Jiwoo was so emotionally bricked up for the majority of both seasons that it caused ME damage. So me hitting him with my car is both a revenge plot and an attempt to let loose some of those pent up feelings of his.

(But also I'm dead meat if Seojoon finds out it was me behind the wheel. He loves that boy too much.)

9) Zee from Twins (2023-24)

I'm volunteering to do this as public service to keep Sprite and First together without any twins switch drama. One gremlin down, one successful volleyball couple UP!!

10) Winner from Pit Babe (2023-24)

I want to do it as an experiment. I feel like he would make a funny sound under the wheels, like when you sqeeze clown's nose or step on a rubber duck. I would also like to see how this will affect his character. Will he become even more annoying? Will it fix him completely? ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT!!

(This was so fun I love inflicting imaginary violence on fictional men. If you read this far into this incoherent insanity, consider yourself tagged!💖)

#tag game #never let me go #never let me go the series #pit babe #pit babe the series #dangerous romance #dangerous romance the series #to my star #to my star 2 #history 3: make our days count #twins the series #love mechanics #fish upon the sky #my dear gangster oppa #thai bl #kbl

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