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inbarfink · 1 year

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One common Undertale misconception that really frustrates me is when Sans is portrayed with a strong innate sense for RESETs and alternative timelines. Like, that he remembers the RESET timelines better than the other characters who only have occasional feelings of deja vu or even that he can sense when a timeline is RESET.

And that’s, like, almost the opposite of the actual text of the game. While pretty much every main character can have slightly-different dialogue in a Not-True-RESET, especially if the Player had previously befriended them, based on the idea that they have lingering memories/feelings from before the RESET -

Sans has no real dialogue changes based on this conceit. All of his changes are based around noticing Frisk has different reactions based on their memories of the precious timelines.

Other characters do also make observations like that about Frisk, like Mettaton and Toriel. But Sans is distinctive because this is the only way his comments change between RESETs and there are a lot of them from him.

Because that is what really frustrates me about this misconception. People mention it as one more thing that makes Sans cool - but the actual truth is far more badass. Sans is one of the people in the Underground who remembers RESETs the least. I think memory-resistance to RESETs is probably tied to Determination. Flowey, the second-most Determined person in the Underground after Frisk, can remember everything perfectly.

Everyone else has some vague feelings and deja vus. And Sans, he’s the least motivated person in the Underground - both in the sense he’s lazy and in the sense he’s fucking depressed.

That probably means he has very little Determination. Thus, he doesn’t remember anything that happens between RESETs.

And yet, he is still the character most aware of them. Because he has the technological know-how to read and analyze timelines.

And because he has the observation and analytical skill to notice a RESET from other people’s reactions and behavior. Whatever it’s Papyrus thinking he recognizes someone or Frisk’s behavior implying that they know something they shouldn’t have. Sans main RESET-related skill is just being able to identify these moments and come to the correct conclusion about them. And with that he manages to be the most aware character in the entire Underground.

Like, the one point where it might seem like Sans remembers something from a previous Timeline is the Fake Spare scene during his boss battle.

But it’s all pretend. Unlike the previous lines from other characters that I mentioned, this dialogue plays even if the Murder Route is the first time the player touched the game. Sans isn’t remembering anything in this scene. But he makes an educated guess that the Immoral Time God probably tried using their powers for good at first, so they were likely ‘friends’ in a previous timeline. And in most cases, his guess is right on the money - tricking many players into thinking this is another case of the game actually reacting to their past actions.

And as always, Sans can only tell if his lil’ trick worked or not based on the expression of the Player Character.

Arguably, Sans even uses his lack of Determination and cross-RESET memory to his advantage in his boss battle. After all, the whole point of this fight isn’t to kill the Player - Sans understands this is impossible. This is a war of attrition, trying to get the Player so frustrated and annoyed with the unfair fight that they just ragequit or RESET the Timeline. And this war of the Player’s patience versus Sans’ stamina and will is infinitely easier for him when he doesn’t actually perceive all the Player’s previous attempts against him.

Like, for the Player this might be the billion time they go up against him, they’re aware of some of his patterns and tricks now but they’re probably also frustrated and angry and exhausted. Meanwhile, from Sans’ POV, this is still the first time this is happening. He knows it’s not from the Player’s behavior and Frisk’s expression - but he doesn’t feel it like the Player does.

He doesn’t feel the frustration and repetition of the endless stalemate. So he’s always as fresh as a daisy no matter how rugged the Player is getting.

And that’s part of why Sans is so cool in the first place, like, in general. He’s technically the weakest person in the Underground, lacking in every standard evaluation of power in the setting - no ATK, no DEF, no HP, no DETERMINATION. But he’s darn clever enough to overcome these weaknesses and even use them in ways that make them into strengths, enough to be one of the most dangerous and most aware guys in this whole setting.

Sans can’t remember anything, and that makes him awesome.

#undertale #undertale meta #sans #sans undertale #undertale analysis #sans ut

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underfell · 5 months

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UF-Ruins: Toriel finds you

I didn't say i was going in the order of the plotline did I?!?!

anyways, I've thought about how Toriel, wouldn't try to kill you. Instead she would still want to protect you. No matter what.

Before Toriel Finds You, After trusting Flowey , all of the monsters in the Ruins try to get rid of you. At some point all of the monsters aren't even trying anymore, in fact they are nowhere to be found.

It's silent.

Flowey realizes if he wants to accompany you, he's going to be in constant danger in the Ruins.

A well fitting disguise is found near Toriel's Rose Bushes in her garbage cans- I'd imagine it would be one of those chase type of rooms. Where if Toriel sees you, you need to run ( I'll dive into this some other time )

Now that you have a Safety Lamp Monster disguise, the monsters will come back out and try to kill you again. Naturally it's still kill or be killed among the monsters. It's better than a Boss Monster chasing you around.

That's what I got for today :- )

BEFORE ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING: " but flowey can just hide" NO, because the disguise is also for avoiding Toriel IN GENERAL !!!!!!! also you don't think she would be able to pull the poor sucker out from under the ground. She's a seasoned gardener.

#UF RUINS #UF PLOT

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stainedglassthreads · 11 months

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One thing I think I just realized is, in addition to being dissatisfied with how stories deal with Toriel’s grief compared to Asgore’s and Asriel’s, and how I don’t see many instances of Toriel and Asgore’s quarrel being addressed in a way that satisfied me... I don’t think I see that many AUs that quite get the responsibility Asgore feels... right.

Yes, I’ve seen several that portray his grief, depression, and how badly he doesn’t want to be in this position well, even if it’s disappointing how not everyone seems to be aware of what you learn about him in a Neutral run where you’ve previously killed Flowey. A lot of people can get aspects of his characterization very well, the broken man, the goofy dad, the intimidating monarch. But I think the reason I don’t see people capture the weight of his responsibility quite as well in fanfics and comics is... well. Oddly enough it’s in the way the monsters treat him.

It’s not just the fandom that has issues with idolizing or demonizing characters. It’s also the Kingdom of Monsters themselves--and they all idolize Asgore. Yes, he’s a very grounded and compassionate individual who invites his subjects to share all their problems with him, and who Papyrus insists will just let you pass through the Barrier. But he’s also a bit of the subject of a cult of personality for his subjects. When they say he’ll absorb seven souls and become a GOD, it’s not an expression of his arrogance, but rather their own adoration. While out-of-universe the Angel is generally agreed to be either Asriel or Chara(or us), in-universe I wouldn’t be surprised if Asgore was considered the Angel.

It’s not long now. King Asgore will let us go. King Asgore will give us hope. King Asgore will save us all.

Yes, individual monsters may want to collect a human soul for their own individual wants and desires. But it’s only the capture of a human soul, or using a single soul for their own benefit, that they really aspire to. (With the exception of Toriel, who wants no souls, and Flowey, who is Flowey.) Of those area bosses who earnestly try to take just one soul, Papyrus and Undyne both want to hand you over to Asgore, and Mettaton wants to protect humanity FROM Asgore. Literally everyone in the Underground seems to fully believe that Asgore will be the one taking all the Souls and fulfilling his promises, and all are content. (Again, barring Toriel, MTT, Flowey.) No one seems to ever doubt he’ll do as he says, even his ex-wife, and no one’s greedy to take the power for themselves or take the burden of being a savior for themself, except his kid who has both a God Complex and a Savior Complex.

With Chara, and with Asgore. They take a person and turn them into a representation of something More than any singular person could ever be. And then in the worst route Chara does it again, to themself. Asgore is freedom and salvation and retribution itself, and everyone including the woman who was once married to him agrees and reinforces the role. Chara is the feeling of a number going up, and the fandom agrees and reinforces the role.

And I dunno. There are fics and AUs where Asgore never lost his kids and always remained an affable, friendly guy. There are AUs where Asgore is the main antagonist and an awful villain with few redeeming qualities. There are fics and AUs where Asgore gets to recover in a post-pacifist setting. But I’m not sure any fics or AUs have ever quite captured how everyone else just talks about the guy, for me. Toriel is simply ‘intimidating’. But Asgore is a GOD.

#undertale #undertale analysis #undertale meta #asgore #asgore dreemurr #this is why i think in post-pacifist asgore should live far away from all his subjects for a few years #be a normal guy. no responsibilities. let them calm down about the unwanted god-king stuff #like i've seen many stories successfully make asriel or chara feel othered and idolized by the underground but #somehow not asgore as much despite how everyone in-game treats him as a personification of his declaration of war #and lets that be the FIRST thing that influences how they treat him #even undyne to some extent. she's so psyched to free monsterkind. to get him to free monsterkind

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lynxgriffin · 3 months

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What are your predictions for Deltarune Chapters 3-4 ?

Hmmm, let's see...

I think Susie and Ralsei are going to work out very quickly that Kris was the one to create this fountain. Susie's going to brush it off like "Okay yeah I get why you would, it's okay we'll just have fun and seal the fountain when we're done anyway!" and Ralsei will try and act like it's not a problem, when he clearly is bothered by it, and this will start to build up some tension between Ralsei and Kris.

I am open to Toriel being another side party member, less convinced yet that we'll be seeing another adult like Undyne or Napstablook there as well. I do not think we'll be getting a Snowgrave repeat where Toriel is manipulated into killing Undyne or anything like that. If there's a weird route continuation here, it'll be handled very differently.

I don't think we'll be seeing more of the Dreemurr household in the dark world; it'll just be focused on what's on the TV. We've already got a few possibilities for areas: a cooking show, the weather report, and the monster movie, plus we do keep getting hints that the western show may show up in some capacity.

To that end...hopefully a Susiezilla sequence for the monster movie part!

Unsure of what Mike's role will be in here, but I'm anticipating Tenna as the main big bad for this Dark World.

I don't think anyone has guessed the secret boss for chapter three yet, and I don't think anyone will. Thusfar for secret bosses, there's been no hints of them from other places, and you have to go out of your way to find them. Their function as Darkners made from discarded/forgotten objects makes sense in hindsight, but isn't obvious from the get-go. All we know is that we'll need the shadow mantle for a future secret boss, and that that's missing now.

At the end of chapter three, Asriel is going to call on the landline phone and talk to Toriel briefly, but WE won't get to actually communicate with him and it's going to drive me bonkers.

We know less about chapter four, except for some very basic things...Susie and Kris have a few scenes talking out in the light world, and it's raining some of that time. It could either go the direction of an all-light world chapter, or another dark world they explore the next day.

Assuming it's the latter and there's another dark world (which makes more sense to me), I feel the best location options are the hospital, the church, and Asgore's flower shop. If there's a thread started in chapter three getting into more of the Dreemurr family history and Kris's place in it (which does seem to be the case), Asgore's shop seems the best bet to continue that thread next, so I'm going to predict Asgore's shop for chapter four.

Since that's a flower shop and all, a more Alice In Wonderland sort of theming seems likely, with more of a jungle/wild area that the Fun Gang has to explore compared to the city and sound stage areas of previous chapters.

I am expecting Catti (and potentially also Jockington) to be future Dark World partners, and either chapter four or chapter five seems a good option for that.

I think Catti is necessary as a partner 1) because of her occult history with Kris, 2) her focus on protecting Noelle, who I could see showing up in the Dark World again as early as chapter four or five, and 3) her clearly having beef with Susie.

If we're dealing with Kris's family history through chapters 3 and 4, I can see that then going into more of Susie's backstory and whatever is going on with her family. I get the feeling that Catti knows some secret about Susie that makes her dislike her more than just "she stole Jockington's hat once", and that will need to be resolved in conjunction with learning more on Susie's situation.

Every day in-game that big-headed blue bird monster is going to reveal another shelf in the second floor of the library, which will slowly give more worldbuilding lore, and it's going to be maddening just getting those little crumbs of info one at a time.

We'll be getting more Knight hints, but not a real reveal until chapter five.

#ask lynx stuff #whew that was more thoughts than I expected #deltarune theorizing

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haveyouseenthisskeleton · 8 months

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what makes the boys absolutely smitten/melt?

Undertale Sans - Papyrus being happy and his friends being happy. He doesn't need much more.

Undertale Papyrus - Cute little toddlers waving at him. It kills him every time.

Underswap Sans - The neighbors calling him a hero because he brought their groceries home on his way back from work.

Underswap Papyrus - His service dogs just looking at him with hearts in the eyes. He loves his dogs more than humans sometimes.

Underfell Sans - When his S/O gives him sad puppy eyes when he says no to do something with them. He's so damn weak.

Underfell Papyrus - Doomfanger always sleeping on his desk when he's working because that's the only place she feels safe.

Horrortale Sans - Seeing Willow, Grillby and Toriel smile again for real.

Horrortale Papyrus - When the little grandmas he comes visit every week say he's cute and a brave boy, and that they're so glad he's in their lives.

Horrorswap Sans - When his brother brings him breakfast in bed because he knows when his missing leg is hurting.

Horrorswap Papyrus - Anyone signing "I love you" to him, really. He's desperate for affection at this point.

Horrorfell Sans - Kids coming to him so he can defend them from school bullies. He feels so important when they're doing this.

Horrorfell Papyrus - Doomfanger still coming to see him every morning in his bed despite how bad her osteoarthritis is hurting her. He can't lose his cat, he would never get over it.

Swapfell Sans - When his S/O makes him coffee before going to work because they know he's cranky in the morning.

Swapfell Papyrus - Free chicken mcnuggets coupon in magazines. What?

Fellswap Gold Sans - Alphys screams of rage when he absolutely destroys her for the fifth time in a row.

Fellswap Gold Papyrus - When anyone buy him a gift, bonus point if it's art supplies.

Outertale Sans - People saying they learned a lot of things about space thanks to him.

Outertale Papyrus - When the kids he's taking care of as a nanny are finally napping after 3 hours of struggle lol.

Dancetale Sans - People bringing him his favorite flowers, because they're really hard to find so he knows you care.

Dancetale Papyrus - Little kids running to him at a dance party to have him as a dance partner.

Dancefell Sans - A nice sunset without his brother screaming or taking pictures behind.

Dancefell Papyrus - When people copy his dance moves on TikTok because it inspired them.

Farmtale Sans - Helping a mama animal to give birth and naming the babies.

Farmtale Papyrus - When his S/O buries him under a mountain of plushies so he feels safer when they have to leave for work.

Mafiatale Sans - When his magic tricks are finally working on someone and they say it's actually good when it's really shit.

Mafiatale Papyrus - When his boss says he's the best element of the team and that he's glad he's here because nothing would be done without him.

Mafiafell Sans - Sleeping surrounded by his 20 American staff and rottweilers.

Mafiafell Papyrus - When Asgore affectuously calls him his son.

Ink - Error saying he will behead him if he keeps annoying him more.

Error - Chocolate. Lots of chocolate.

Disbelief Papyrus - When Asgore hugs him in his sleep, finally calm and relieved of all stress.

Dustale Sans - Killer scratching him in the right spot.

Killer Sans - Seeing Dune have zoomies around the house like a crazy husky but actually he's a skeleton.

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kittblush · 3 months

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This is my chapter 3 secret boss oc, her name is Boo Quette and she is the care taker of the garden area I had her since june 2023 I was just lazy to post her lol. I have a lot of stuff written about her that I'll share eventually

Boo is the secret boss of chapter 3, her appearance in game being in an optional area called “The Garden” (it differs from the supposed theme of canon chapter 3 themed about Mike. Or make her do a TV gardening show lol) The Garden could be a representation of the garden surrounding Kris and Toriel’s house.

Boo is the characterization of the flower bouquet given by Asgore to Toriel (the one that Kris brings her). The flowers being tossed in the trash and starting to die/wilte, given that she became a ghost.

In the Dark World, Boo is the caretaker of the Garden. She was created by the Knight with his power and charged with protecting the Garden and its inhabitants.

On the first day she arrived, she asked to help the Darkners living there to restore the garden into the beautiful place it is today. Its habitants now consider themselves as her people as they admire her ever since.

Long after her arrival, the Knight broke into the place with bad intentions, causing chaos all around the Garden. Boo confronted him, as her only role was to protect the Garden and everyone, but she failed as she was too weak, she got killed in battle.

Seeing how much she has grown, the Knight decided to give her a gift before leaving, a reward. It was a Shadow Crystal. After receiving it, Boo was able to come back to life due to its power, but a lot of memories had to disappear with it. She then became the coo coo crazy lady she is now.

To this day, she’s keeping the Crystal inside her head, hidden behind the rose that’s replacing her eye and hiding the crackles. If the Lightners confront her, that means she’s going to see the Crystal taken away from her, as well as her life support.

Personality-wise, Boo kind of acts like Muffet in Undertale (greedy, intimidating, hypocritical, …) she genuinely seems pretty nice and sweet to everyone. Her text quirk is often having tildes “~” at the end of her sentences. She also speaks with normal caps (no uppercase).

She has a second form where she actually speaks in all caps, like Jevil and Spamton.

#deltarune #undertale #illustration #deltarunefanart #fanart #artwork #oc #original character #secret boss #deltarune secret boss #reference sheet #lore

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buttercupbees · 4 months

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Flowey posting cause hfjfnekandjsoka pondering

I like how much flowey cares about toriel. Even if it's not much it's still a lot compared to other people.

Usually with most characters he treats them like video game characters just as much as we do but even though it's small, toriel is the one character (other than chara) he treats differently even if it's minor. He gives her a glass of water when she falls asleep drunk twice, once I think even before pacifist? She's also the one he calls you out on killing. Once directly, which you could argue is just because the game wants you to know that your choices will always matter and that it remembers your saves since she's the first boss, but he taunts you about it again through the echo flower in waterfall which is pretty far from the beginning of the game. Makes me kinda feel like he's mad at you for it even if he can't get himself to care for her like he used to. Idk I just find it interesting that he won't hesitate to kill asgore in any route but will remind you twice about killing toriel which is a lot considering he's not in the middle of the game at all really. He also says in the genocide monologue that if there's one last person who can make him feel anything it would be toriel, more so than asgore could. Even if it doesn't work, he still tries really hard to. Means asriel must've had a really really strong connection to his mom and I think that's sweet idk. Like the one person alive who can make the emotionless murder flower care about them is his mom aw

Btw I know about papyrus too but that's mostly post pacifist

#flowey #undertale #flowey the flower #WOW that's longer than I thought #I just like when characters love their mom because I love my mom #toriel kinda like my mom but cooler #side note I think it would be a fun hc if asriel was a mamas boy and chara had more of a connection to asgore #cuz they'd be more interested in his job as king and stuff like that while asriel makes pies or whatever #pondering real hard

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corvussnakee · 3 months

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HEADS UP! THE IMAGE BELLOW HAS A BLOOD STAINED JACKET!!! JUST A HEADS UP!!

The Sans fight was approaching, an Annoyingly bothersome boss to get through to get to Waterfall. But instead of finding Sans, there was Papyrus...

Sans was unable to be killed during that route, and the next, and the next. Papyrus always taking his place. After being stuck in so many Neutral routes, The player killed Toriel and Omega Temmie one last time before closing the game for good.

Poor Sans... Left all alone... Alone... All alone...

You know, The static is quite comforting once you start spacing out.

(Aftermath)

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renmarrr · 5 months

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Okay, so my two DustFell-related questions are:

1. Have you ever come up with any concepts or lore for DustFell beyond the original post? Because if you did, I would love to hear about it.

2. Do you have any plans to work on DustFell any further, or do you consider it fine the way it is?

I have, actually. From the moment all this au-ownership fuss started I thought that this au combination can have a chance. Since then I have this. Main plot and difference (from dt au) is that Sans failed at finishing his murdery job. He got caught. But the human meets him without being immobilised.

Sans’s scientific experience and monster history knowledge formed his bad opinion about powerful humans.

Sans isn’t aware of resets but he sees the events from previous timelines as blurry and half-abstract exaggerated nightmares. There he can see that human does harm to lesser monsters (in fact they can’t kill main monsters). Therapy barely works.

He refuses to give Toriel that crucial promise. Instead, first few timelines he spends on attempts to capture/kill the human. But the kid returns after their every misfortune.

Sans, obsessed with idea of stopping the human, decides to act less reasonable and kills some of lesser monsters (to gain some lv and to leave less enemies to the kid).

He gets carried away and more and more crazy in his killing “spree”. Until the royal guard imprisons him.

Papyrus isn’t dead, he just refuses to talk to Sans because 1) Sans put them both in danger now (the king = danger); 2) Sans now resembles the Kind even more; 3) Sans isn’t sane anymore. Papyrus-shaped illusion scolds Sans for every possible thing his mind can think about. He talks to the illusion but the conversation sounds meaningless.

Sans can escape but he can’t live long in freedom — he gets caught and brings his execution closer. Overall his attempts to stop the human are never effective. Unless he can bring boredom to a human by making the “game” much harder and less fun so the other would just stop. Or start more merciful route.

Human’s journey is sneaky and by the time they arrive to the Hotland, evacuation starts. Flowey set most of prisoners free. Unfortunately he also freed Sans, so he’s now the final boss. If Frisk survives the stage of the fight, there’s a chance for Flowey to bring Frisk through the barrier (Frisk uses “flee option”). This moment of chance repeats once a few turns.

There are grey zones but something like that. None of it was in my head when I drew that first drawing of df. Also I didn’t want to make Sans so powerful he managed to put the whole underground into the grave. So he has a little bit more adventures.

2. I’m not sure. That would be cool of course, but I don’t have so much strength unfortunately. And I am not able to focus on one project till it’s done, so. As I said many times before, other people free to come up with their ideas/concepts/designs as I didn’t invent the au, I only happen to draw a combination of two. Anybody is free to use that I described here, if it’s interesting or helpful enough.

(Of course it’s forbidden to use/edit/still/repost my drawings. I had some older sketches of the same things but they were worse.)

#my art #undertale #underfell #dustfell #Papyrus #sans #digital art #undertale au

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thesnowflake18 · 6 months

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Just out of curiousity honestly!!

Quick explanations for each below~

Flawed Pacifist/Family Ending

Failed Pacifist ending where you failed to date Undyne or Alphys, or dated Alphys and skipped the True Lab segment. None or few monsters killed (for most variants)

Toriel returns to the throne and people accept her policy for peace with humans

If you fail to date Undyne, she blames you for Asgore's death but otherwise seems fine

Undyne is pumped to speak with Frisk if she is befriended, just sad about Asgore

Betrayed Undyne endings here are possible if Papyrus is alive, you befriend Undyne, and killed any monster afterwards.

Alphys speaks with Frisk if befriended and reassures them of the progress to leave the underground

Papyrus joins the Royal Guard (after disbanding) and only waters flowers but is happy. Sans seems relatively happy too

Killing MTT will cause Alphys to disappear and Undyne to be distraught, not even wanting vengeance. Papyrus tries to be encouraging

Exiled Queen Toriel

Many branches!!! Toriel attempts to rule but either resigns peacefully or is banished back to the ruins, either by Undyne or the monsters themselves.

Overall, monsters are unhappy with Toriel's policy due to the killings by us, even more so if Undyne was killed

Sans and Papyrus (if he's alive) will follow her to the ruins and keep her company

Sans will drop the facade with you if you also killed Papyrus, saying your not welcome back in the underground

Killing MTT will cause Alphys's "disappearance" and Undyne to be distraught, sometimes wanting vengeance

Empress Undyne

Sometimes a variant of the Exiled Queen endings where if Papyrus or many monsters are dead (Alphys disappears), Undyne herself leads a revolt against Toriel and becomes Empress of the Underground

She's a tougher leader who takes the idea of war on humans more seriously than Asgore

She also becomes Empress if Toriel is killed as long as 10+ monsters are killed as well

If Papyrus is dead, Sans will drop the facade and reveal he knows you killed Toriel

If Papyrus is alive, he's given a falsely important role by Undyne. Sans just comments on Tori's silence

King Mettaton

Capitalist dystopia led by Mettaton after Toriel and Undyne are both killed.

Sans and Papyrus become MTT's agents

Sans doesn't comment on Papyrus's death in this ending and is still MTT's agent

MTT comments on his regrets with Alphys, and says she's disappeared

People who don't like MTT's show tend to "disappear" (😧)

King Papyrus

All possible leaders are gone; Papyrus becomes ruler by process of elimination

Papyrus tries to be as encouraging as he can, despite losing so many important people. His best encouragement isn't enough

Sans takes over the paperwork, Paps is proud

Sans told him that everyone else went on vacation, though it's implied Paps already knows the truth and just plays along

The most neutral human policy: can't judge them all to be good or bad, it's a case-by-case

Dog Ending (Leaderless variant)

Silly ending; All bosses (Toriel, Paps, Undyne, MTT) killed but NO ONE ELSE

Sans comments how a white dog became president of the underground and sleeps on the throne all day

this seems like the best ending for everyone -Sans

Leaderless

All bosses are killed, as well as some monsters. Small variant if there's 20+ monster kills

Everyone is distraught since no one can step up to become a leader. All hope is gone

Sans darkly jokes that this is what happens when people like him take it easy

If 20+ monsters are killed as well, Sans comments on the emptiness and also for you to "go to hell"

Queen Alphys

Aborted Genocide ending after Undyne the Undying

Alphys is the one who asks for the call, Sans barely comments

Alphys evacuates everyone, making monsters look to her for leadership after

Sans seems to be supporting her for now

Alphys reveals her secrets to the public and it seems to be relieving to her, though now she has regrets with us, saying how she should've killed us when she had the chance (RAW FR)

Dirty Hacker Ending

Technically a secret "impossible" ending. You have to hack the game save file in order to get this ending

Sans comments on how strange this is and to contact the creator, maybe for a "new ending"

Sans breaks the fourth wall by calling out the player as "just a dirty hacker"

NOW PICK YOUR FAVORITE!!

#undertale #out of curiosity #undertale neutral #neutral ending #polls #PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!!#I tried to be as brief as possible #didn't include the bonus intros like snowman piece. no items. or no saving #anyways I'll go first. I LOVE EMPRESS UNDYNE ADLFHEKSND #the dystopia. the angst. the character dynamics of them all AAGHHJ #my favorite variant is exiled Tori and alive Paps (dead Paps is so depressing)

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inbarfink · 8 months

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Any analysis of how Undertale deals with Pacifism and how it tries to guide the Player towards it has to take a deep look at Papyrus. Because Papyrus is the one character in the game who will never kill, the one actual ‘True Pacifist’ in the game’s main cast.

I mean, the Player can be an even bigger Pacifist. Papyrus does still FIGHT, and the Player can get through an entire run without draining a single sliver of HP. But… they can also be the world’s biggest murderbastard and literally stab reality to death.

Toriel would very much like to not kill, but she is also fully capable of doing so.

Same with Asgore, but he has a lot more actual blood on his hands. Undyne and Mettaton are both fully 100% willing to kill to accomplish their goals. Sans is non-violent in most runs because he’s too lazy and depressed to do anything, and when he is motivated into actions - it is in the form of a FIGHT to the death. Alphys… the timeline is a bit fuzzy cause both she and Mettaton love lying so much, but it seems like she did sincerely add deadly weapons to Mettaton cause killing humans would make him more 'useful' and then had second thoughts once she developed a parasocial relationship with the Human Child and THEN she and Mettaton started hatching their little play-acting plan. I think??

With Papyrus there is NONE of this ambiguity, we know for sure - no matter what timeline or what may come - The Great Papyrus will always choose MERCY.

And the interesting thing about that is on a Meta-Sense, Papyrus is a very rare example of the game giving MERCY towards the Player.

Because the game starts out being really obtuse with the Sparing mechanic and how it works. If you want to be a Pacifist in Undertale from the get-go, you’re gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to figure it out on your own and commit to it and believe that it's possible. It's basically a test of your own belief in non-violence and your moral integrity. Then, the RUINS end with the Toriel boss battle - in a way, that’s probably the hardest Sparing puzzle in the whole game. And it’s very very easy to accidentally kill her. (I’d almost say that’s the intention of the battle, to try to goad the Player into Resetting so they can see how the game remembers across RESETs)

And then we have Papyrus, and it’s not just that his ‘Sparing Puzzle’ is something as simple as outlasting him and letting him run out of dialogue - and it’s not just that he’s the only boss that will just give up and let you continue if you lose to him enough times. it’s also that, just as Papyrus is the only boss incapable of accidentally killing the Player - he’s also the only boss that the player is incapable of accidentally killing.

(Okay, fine, to be pedantic, there’s also Asgore)

I mean, the Player can certainly kill him if they want to - but draining Papyrus’s HP just makes him skip through his battle dialogue right to the end of it. It’s designed in such a way that, no matter what Route you're on and no matter what approach you take with Papyrus - you will always end up on this screen.

Unlike basically any other Monster in this game, including the major boss battle just before him - you can’t kill Papyrus accidently. You can't kill him without also having Sparing him as an option. The game kinda treats killing Papyrus as one of the Worst Things You Can Do because killing Papyrus will always be a deliberate, considered action done to a person who will not kill you and who has stopped wanting to FIGHT and has extended a hand of Mercy. With the game clearly communicating what you need to do to Spare him at that moment.

And that means that - even if you killed before, even if you don’t have the patience of a True Pacifist, even if you spent all this time in the game without even trying to engage with the Sparing mechanic… as long as you don’t want to be a Huge Rat Bastard, the game is basically gifting you with the very very easy option to not be. Being a Pacifist in Undertale is usually a challenge - a puzzle to be solved, a test to pass. But as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to be the Worst Person - the game is basically giving you Papyrus.

If you accept his Mercy, you are accepting the game’s Mercy. That sort of benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that maybe all of the LOVE you might have accumulated so far was all due to honest mistakes or panic or an attempt in self-defense. That you still deserve this one chance to prove that you are not intentionally, maliciously cruel - or at least not like the Worst Person in the World. Even if you did kill before, you still deserve at least one friend.

And Sparing Papyrus leads you to his wonderful Hangout/Dating Sequence and to his Phone Calls and they all add so much wholesome charm to the Undertale experience and no matter what happens Papyrus will always think the best of the Player and he will always trust them and it also makes Sans also kinda your buddy by default. And more than just adding a little bit of wholesome charm into even the more LOVE-filled Playthroughs, I think this is meant to try and incentivize these players into trying out the Mercy mechanic a bit more.

Whatever it’s, like, for future playthroughs or Resetting the game right there to try a True Pacifist Run right there and then or just trying to be a little kinder for the rest of this current playthrough - especially since there’s an emphasis about the close friendship Papyrus has with the upcoming boss Undyne, and to a lesser extent with his idol and next-next boss battle Mettaton. It’s like “well, if you didn’t figure out how to spare before, this is how you do it? And isn’t it nice to have a friend? Isn’t it nice to not have to kill this lovable skeleton man? You should do this more often wink wink nudge nudge!”

And it’s like… all of Papyrus’ loved ones care about him so much but they also look down on his pacifism. They see his inability to kill and desire to make friends as simple naivete and that’s why all tend to hide the truth from him all the time. About what will happen to the Human he will capture, about what his new Human friend might’ve done, about the fact that they view him as so naïve.

They admire it on some level, that’s why they want to protect it, but they also see it as a weakness which is why they want to protect it by lying to him all the time. But, you know, Undyne says that if Papyrus goes into battle he’ll be ‘ripped into little smiling shreds’ and that is certainly what happens every time a Player chooses to refuse Papyrus’ Mercy and the game’s Mercy and press that FIGHT button…

But have you thought about all the times that doesn’t happen? All the careless or violent players who were offered that skeletal hand of friendship, accepted it and then carried that offered kindness forward for the rest of the game? All the players motivated to do good for the sake of their buddy Papyrus? All the Murder Routes stopped because the player just didn’t have it in them to kill someone who believes in them so earnestly?

Like, no, it’s not a surefire thing - especially since Papyrus has so much less narrative power than the Actual Unkillable Time God that is the Player. But it happened, and it happened many many times to many players. Papyrus offered Mercy, the game offered Mercy. And much like Frisk’s Pacifism, it comes from a place of seeing the honest goodness in your ‘enemy’ and can inspire them to become a better person - this little sparkle of goodness being passed forwards.

And I think that’s beautiful, even if it didn’t happen in every timeline. Any potential future where Papyrus’ kindness can have such an effect on the Player and thus the entire trajectory of the Underground validates his kindness and pacifism on some level - even if there are also always the potential worlds that it backfires completely.

And there’s also one other way in which the Great Papyrus Proves Pacifism Pays. One that is a bit more practical, perhaps. And one that Papyrus himself is not even aware of.

Papyrus’ boss battle can be a surprisingly challenging one specifically because he is the only one who doesn’t kill the Player.

Like there is a reason why Papyrus will just offer you to skip his Fight after you lose to him three times, because if he didn’t do that - there’s an honest risk that the Player can get stuck in a much stuckier way than anywhere else in the game.

Because, like, for basically any other character in the game, being killed is the Worst Thing that could ever happen to them. For everyone except the actual Player Character because we are an Actual Unkillable Time God and dying is nothing more than a minor annoyance that sets you back to your last SAVE Point. So, leaving aside Papyrus’ admirably kind intentions - there is not much material difference from the Player’s perspective between getting Captured and getting a more traditional GAME OVER. Except…

Except getting Captured does not undo everything that happened in your inventory during the battle. In every other Undertale battle, if you use all of your items but still lose - the GAME OVER at least means you get your stuff back. But because Papyrus doesn’t kill you, any healing item you’ve used during the battle is still used. I have watched so many Undertale Let’s Players waste all of their valuable items on their first Papyrus battle and then have to face him again without them and thus do even worse in their second go… and then their third go... and thankfully then Papyrus offers them to skip the fight.

And while that technically can be circumvented by just manually closing the game and opening it back again on their pre-battle SAVE Point, a lot of players are gonna reflexively Save over it if they pop over to the Shop or the Snowed Inn before their second attempt at the battle. If Papyrus didn’t offer that chance to skip his battle, it could’ve easily become a softlock situation for a huge chunk of players - because he doesn’t kill the Player.

Most of Undertale deals with the value of non-violence from a standpoint of morality and kindness and personal connections. Since most people do die when they get killed. But when dealing with an Unkillable Time God like the Player, Papyrus proves that not-killing might actually be the most practical solution.

Of course, it doesn’t seem like Papyrus is aware of any of this. From his perspective, he is just offering genuine mercy to a being just as ephemeral as he is. But it accidentally turned into one of the most effective methods of blocking the Player’s way… at least he didn’t offer us an opt out so soon after that.

And it’s interesting when comparing him to how his brother Sans - one of the few people actually aware of the existence of SAVEs and RESETs - deals with the Player. Because the Sans boss battle at the end of the Murder Route is entirely based on the concept that death is nothing but an annoyance to the Player. Sans is less trying to kill the Player (the way Undyne the Undying did), he is simply trying to annoy the Player into a ragequit. But he is still killing the Player.

Now imagine a Sans battle where he has all of his usual annoying tricks, but also instead of killing you - he captures you just like his brother would’ve in a happier timeline. And while it’s not a fool-proof plan to stop the Player in their tracks - he could very easily stick them in that sort of softlock situation where they have to battle him again and again without any Healing Items. Forcing them to either abandon the game or RESET the whole world back the way it was - just like Sans wants them too.

But instead, by killing the Player, he is just allowing that perfect second-third-fourth-fifth-sixth-try where they get all of their Stuff back. And he does actually knows that. And why doesn’t he do that? (Speaking here from an in-universe character study perspective. Obviously the Doylist answer is that the game doesn’t want to Softlock you even in the most deliberately-frustrating part of the game).

Maybe, even though he intellectually knows that killing the Player will be of no help - he still does it because he wants to. Because he just wants to get back at the evil murderous monster that took his brother from him and destroyed his entire world even if he knows it’s actually ineffective. And this thirst for bloodshed is, ironically, blinding him from a new exciting way to actually practically stop that murderous bastard who is themself motivated entirely by bloodshed.

Maybe he just can’t do something like that. Reducing an enemy to exactly one HP and then stopping is not a feat anyone else in the game is capable of pulling off - even the ones who would obviously use such a thing (like Toriel or a Player with a Pacifist intentions). Maybe it’s something that requires a lot of hard practice and discipline and carefulness, that Sans never thought to put in because he didn’t see it as a useful skill the way Papyrus did.

Maybe that wouldn’t have worked anyways. After all, and that’s something I kinda touched on in a previous Overly Long Rambly Hot Take - Sans’ War of Attrition against the Player is greatly helped by the fact he can’t remember every single previous try and so he can’t get exhausted the way the Player can get. Obviously, without a GAME OVER induced RESET that will not apply. Which is especially notable because… Sans’ laziness is literally what brings him down at the end of that Boss Battle.

So maybe, while Papyrus, as long as you decline his offer to skip the battle, is capable of offering just the same Battle as before over and over and over again.... It’s possible that Sans just won’t be able to pull off two or three or more battles of the same intensity and difficulty in a row without a RESET to undo his own exhaustion.

But I think it’s at least worth considering the option, y’know? That after all this time of viewing Papyrus’ kindness as sweet-and-yet-kinda-foolish-naïveté - that exact viewpoint made Sans overlook the perfect solution to dealing with his little Murderous Time God problem. Cause he just never considered that while killing might be fully morally justifiable in this situation and very very satisfying, that does not necessarily mean it is actually the most practical solution. And that maybe, in a weirdly twisted way, Pacifism WAS the answer.

#undertale #ut #utdr #under tale #papyrus #the great papyrus #papyrus undertale #papyrus ut #sans #sans undertale #sans ut #sans the skeleton #papyrus the skeleton #undertale analysis #undertale meta #genocide route #genocide run

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marusvoid · 18 days

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Alright so I got a devastating idea for a horrordust fanfic and I can't stay silent

Disclaimer: suicide

So it goes something like this:

Horror has been working for nightmare(against his will) for a long time now, and things in horrortale are starting to look better, undyne dies and toriel takes back the throne

Nightmare is displeased of course, the negativity in horrortale is starting to disappear, so , in a last pathetic attempt to gain more power, he kills (or at least send killer) the entirety of horrortale, now leaving horror without a home and without a reason to live.

Now he just wants to end it all except for one problem:

Horror is practically immortal , so he can't kill himself or can't be killed , the only way for him to actually die is to ,....well

Have a child

This will need some explaining:

In undertale's canon, boss monsters don't age or die unless they have a child, because then their life force will be sucked out of them to feed their offspring, until they die and the cycle repeats

And yet the only person he could ask to help him is dust

The relationship between them is complicated and mostly follows their canon personalities , if you want to know more about their relationship, I've reposted a post detailing how their canon relationship would go.

But if you want me to shorten It here:

Horror hates dust's guts

Dust feels bad and overprotective of horror and would practically do anything for him

So he agrees (maybe in his fucked up state of mind he thinks of this as some lovers double suicide)

And so they have a child.

WITH SOUL BONDING AND ABSOLUTELY NO SEX INVOLVED

Raising their kid was going to be hard , they will care for him and protect him(especially from nightmare), but only so that he can kill them in return, nothing more, nothing less

Or so they thought

Turns out getting attached to your own bones and magic is hard to avoid

And with their clock ticking away

Maybe they didn't want to die after all

Maybe horror didn't hate dust after all

Maybe this was a bad idea

#undertale #undertale au #undertale sans #utmv #horror sans #utmv au #dust sans #killer sans #nightmare sans #this idea has been giving a weird feeling that i can't describe #is this what they call angst?#sanscest #horrordust

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rius-cave · 3 months

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i saw someone mention in your blog about putting Adam in Undertale, so I was thinking.. Dont literally all the Characters in Undertale resemble the ones in Hazbin hotel?

Muffet - Niffty or Angel Dust (Angel dust only bc their both spiders lol And Niffty bc they both are psychopaths)

Papyrus - Sir Pentious (literally both of them have a dream and they're creative but the stuff they build doesn't always work)

Mettaton - Angel Dust (both of them have FABULOUS and LONG legs. And they are literally a celebrity, well one a popstar and one a pornstar lollol)

Alphys - Niffty (only bc they both have an interest in Manga and Anime)

Undyne - Vaggie (fight for those who they love, THEY BOTH DONT HAVE THE OTHER EYE. filled with determination)

Toriel - Charlie (Toriel doesn't want to harm humans or kill them, Charlie believes sinners can get redeemed and that they shouldn't be killed)

Sans - Alastor (shit eating smile. both strong asf and they literally mess around with big bosses, Alastor with Lucifer and Sans with Undyne and Asgore)

Asgore - Sera (maybe? she doesn't like the fact that they need to kill sinners bc of hell's population but it's for their own good, same thing with Asgore getting all the 6 human souls to escape the Underground)

Flowey - any douchebag character

I was trying to find if any other Undertale character matched Lucifer, Adam and also a bunch of other characters from Hazbin hotel.

if you know any then let me know ! :)

I think Lucifer is a better match for Asgore (though that would make the thing with Toriel/Charlie weird..? eh whatever). Adam could be like... the training dummy LOL.

I'd have to refresh myself on the more minor Undertale characters, but that's pretty fun. Now I fucking need someone to draw Angel in Mettaton's outfit PLEASE

#in fact I need fanart of all of these #hazbin hotel #ask

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popatochisssp · 8 months

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I would like more details on ocean boys plz. More Descendtale for us?

Descendtale

A human falls to the Underground.

They’re merciful…mostly.

But maybe not merciful enough.

They make friends with many monsters on their way through the Underground.

They kill some others.

Nobody important, none of the real friends they’d made along the way—just a handful of annoying ones who kept getting in their way, surprising them with Encounters when they were busy on their very important quest to escape the Underground and go back home.

When they leave, they put their fun fantasy adventure behind them, eager to get back to their real life.

They never come back.

The monster ‘friends’ they left behind do their best to move on.

Asgore is gone, and so are the six human souls they’d collected, so close to finally being free.

Toriel has returned, which is something, a comfort of familiarity at least to have a ruler who knows what she’s doing when hope is falling and…other things are starting to go wrong.

The Royal Guard has been disbanded, what with the queen’s mandate that humans falling down should be welcomed as friends. Which is fine, most of them all knew the most recent human as a friend, but…it does leave quite a few dogs and a fish and a few other animals out of a job and consequently, out of a driving purpose in their lives.

A handful of monsters have also gone missing. Not Fallen Down, or moved away, just…gone, without a word or a call or a note. No one really knows what happened, though there’s theories, nobody seems to know anything for sure and the unsubstantiated rumors, ranging from wild to tame, are a little bit scary.

And…the Underground’s resources are dwindling. They have been for a long time, but some of those monsters that disappeared—farmers, couriers, suppliers—their absence has unbalanced the food supply chain just a little more, and what they do have is taking longer to get to the populated areas, costing more, creating uncertainty.

In essence, monsters are getting nervous and losing hope.

Many of these problems have no clear solution, but Toriel tasks the Royal Scientist to one it might be possible for her to solve: the food issue.

After all, it may only be a mild concern now, but with the human souls gone, with how long it took to gather so many to begin with, how unlikely it is for more humans to fall down anytime soon—and to be treated as guests, even if they do fall…

It’s going to be quite some time before monsterkind has any real chance to be free.

They need to survive.

They need to be able to weather the long winter that’s to come, to remain strong and keep from falling to despair.

Certainty that they won’t starve to death in subterranean ignominy is a solid step towards that.

Alphys, happy to have been kept on after her last boss…uh. Well, she throws herself into the assignment, feeling that this is her chance to really do something great, worthy of her title.

The way she sees it, they need some kind of a staple crop, something they can produce in excess without exhausting their resources in the process.

She sets her eyes on the echo flower.

Echo flowers are hardy plants and grow well in any dark environment, in all but the driest of soils, already proliferating wildly in the Underground without any influence and thriving for a long, long, long time. Their petals have been known to make a soothing tea, but the root of the plant—a thick black rhizome—is edible, too.

It hasn’t been actually eaten very much, historically, being that the taste is…not great, a little sour and a lot bitter, no matter how you prepare it.

But it is edible, full of nutrients and ambient magic to keep a monster fed and healthy so long as you don’t mind the taste.

And…can they really afford to mind the taste, at this stage?

Toriel agrees with Alphys’ assessment. The artificial light cycles that simulate day and night are ceased and echo flowers are planted anywhere and everywhere they’ll take, roots harvested and incorporated into monsters’ diets. At first, the farming is only to supplement the scarcity of other foods, but as time goes by and most of those all but disappear, the root eventually begins replacing them almost entirely.

It takes awhile for anyone to notice the changes.

Before necessity, no monster ate or even used enough echo flower root to realize that it had preservative properties.

When monsters begin to notice they’re not aging nearly as fast as they should be, a whole host of other side-effects have started to make themselves known, all dutifully assessed and catalogued by Alphys.

Monsters who consume the echo flower root consistently, at volume, can expect to see many of the following changes in their bodies:

Light sensitivity

Darkening of the extremities

Extended periods of low activity (similar to hibernation)

Lack of appetite

Bioluminescence

Reduced metabolism

Sharpening of preexisting teeth, or growth of new ones

Heightened senses (predominantly hearing sight, and smell)

Decreased sensitivity to touch

Increased physical durability

Thorn-like growths or protrusions

Mental changes and personality drift

In addition to these is something monsters colloquially start to refer to as The Withering, when bodies begin to look thin, gnarled and frail but with no attached physical ailments.

The monsters so afflicted by their new condition…

Accept it.

There’s little else they can do, as reliant on their new food source as they are by this point, and quite frankly, none of the changes seem all that bad.

They have food, they have each other, and most importantly, they have time.

It’s all a little different, of course, but monsters are nothing if not adaptable, every bit the survivors the Queen knew they could be.

The worst thing to come out of it all is that brightness of Hotland and New Home poses a bit of discomfort to most of those who’d settled there, but Toriel oversees a mass migration back to Home and renovation of the Ruins there to make them a far more pleasant place to live.

And naturally, along the way are Waterfall, blissfully dark, and Snowdin, delightfully cold—both equally appealing neighborhoods to move into, with monsters’ new taste for such things.

Life goes on for monsterkind, still trapped in their deep cavern but now…kind of thriving in it.

The next human to fall will be faced with a very different sort of Underground than the one the last human left, darker and colder to be sure, filled with monsters who want to be their friend but are maybe…a little rusty at it.

But there should be plenty of time for them to get used to it.

Kohl (Descendtale Sans)

Not so friendly with regards to humans, these days. He knows for a fact what that last one did to a handful of innocent monsters, and has a pretty strong hunch that they could’ve undone it, or at least come back to free their so-called ‘friends’ after the dust settled…but they didn’t. Despite everything, they were no better than any other human who touched the lives of monsters, and he’s all out of belief and hope and second chances for any of their ilk

Something of a new lease on life, or at least a stubborn determination to live, in spite of monsters’ most likely fate after their abandonment—the influence of the echo flower root has made a lot of his favorite creature-comfort-type experiences (eating, sleeping, savoring warmth) more difficult to enjoy, but he refuses to let that stop him

A slight mean-streak, fond of creeping up on people, unnerving them, enjoying a bit of schadenfreude now and then… but at the same time very defensive of anyone he considers part of his in-group (monsters only for now)

Mostly drifts around his usual haunts, Grillby’s, his place, his sentry station—even though the Guard isn’t a thing and he’s not technically a sentry anymore. He still likes to keep an eye-socket out, and if a human manages to slip out of the Ruins without being caught, or if they come in the back way, he’d really like to be there to give them a good scare, and remind them that he’s watching

A little chilly, a bit avoidant, and with a tendency to push peoples’ buttons to see what they do (…well, he’s always done that one), he’s not the easiest person to get along with but… Well, there is no ‘but,’ that’s the end of the sentence.

Bram (Descendtale Papyrus)

Very, very, very eager to make new friends—yes, even human ones! He befriended the last one, but…maybe he didn’t do it right, because…they left…and never came back…and if his brother is to be believed, they may have also murdered a few monsters before that… That’s probably not his fault. But he can do better! He can be a great friend! The best friend, he just needs another chance!

In the process of reinventing himself, just a bit. With the Royal Guard disbanded, that dream is dead, but the Great Papyrus doesn’t need a dream to be great! He’s working on himself right now, trying new hobbies, exploring new styles, reaching out…reaching out a lot, it’s…it’s very hard to get a call back these days, with everything going on…

Some difficulty with emotional regulation, he can go from feeling not much of anything at all, to feeling one emotion very strongly, which can lead to embarrassing outbursts from time to time. He's managing it, or trying to!

Still patrols around Snowdin regularly, even though he’s not a sentry anymore. He likes to see everyone—all the new and old faces—and it wouldn’t do to leave all his traps and puzzles to fall into disrepair, not when he has so many ideas for how to make them more difficult, challenging enough that even the craftiest human might really need to think on

A little bit scattered, a pinch forgetful, and somewhat prone to saying vaguely unsettling things without realizing they are unsettling (…well, he’s always done that one), but mostly he’s harmless! Just seeking a bit of earnest connection and people to have in his life that won’t leave

#anonymous #headcanons #descendtale #d!sans #d!papyrus

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